Alternatives to Citrix Remote Computing? 93
Dysfnctnl85 asks: "The company I work for relies heavily on remote computing through a Citrix MetaFrame server. The reliance on this stems from the structure of our accounting software and the fact that we have 2 remote sites that need to access this data all day, everyday. We are investigating alternatives to the Citrix system we currently operate. How do companies of similar structures deal with this type of problem? Is it feasible (or practical) to use Windows Terminal Services to achieve everything Citrix is capable of doing? This includes, but is not limited to, the ability to print from the Citrix session to a user's printer, the ability to access network drives from the Citrix session, access the user's local drives through the session, and the ability to use published apps. The main concern with this type of setup is the ability to print. What alternatives are there to Citrix?"
Lots of stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
Genuit's ThinWorx [thinworx.com]
Tarantella [tarantella.com]
Provision Networks [provisionnetworks.com]
HOB [hobsoft.com]
Prospero [propero.net]
Win4Lin [win4lin.com]
Konect [desktopsites.com]
GraphOn's GO-Global [graphon.com]
HTH
Re:Lots of stuff (Score:2)
Re:Lots of stuff (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Lots of stuff (Score:2)
We haven't found anything better for remote X sessions.
Re:Lots of stuff (Score:3, Informative)
However they are still working on integrating the two, this should be added in the near future. The products target directly Citrix customer's base and are slowly implementing almost all if not totally all Citrix features and more at 1/10th of the cost.
MSTS (Score:3, Informative)
-ELf
Re: Um... no (Score:4, Informative)
For your Total Cost of ownership... Citrix is the way to go... I can't tell you how nice it is to publish an Application and not the entire desktop. That saves you from dealing with users who delete things or generally like to tinker. Add automatic printer creation and it's a no brainer.
MS did what they always do... they stole the technology and branded it as their own. Remeber in the beginning of Citrix (on NT 3.51 and Winframe 1.6), you didn't need MS terminal services at all... in fact it didn't exist!!!
Re: Um... no (Score:3, Interesting)
If you publish any of the msoffice apps, or anything which can bring up help pages using IE, then your pretty much wasting your time and may as well give them a full desktop anyway.
You really need to publish custom-designed kiosk style apps, and if your having to write the apps from scratch anyway there are much better ways you could provide them than letting a native binary execute on one of your servers... Java springs to mind, the
Re: Um... no (Score:2)
This isn't securing, it's simplifying. If your secretary only needs Word, why give her a full desktop so she can get stuck on a ton of stuff instead of just giving her exactly what she needs.
Your little Java thoughtexperiment however completly breaks with the whole idea behin
Re: Um... no (Score:2)
This also means no floppy, cd, etc. which reduces the possibilities for industrial espionage as it's harder to move data "unseen", not to mention it makes it easier to keep a homogenous client environment as upgrades and end of lifes are pretty
MS RDP (Score:3, Informative)
-b0lt
Re:MS RDP (Score:3, Informative)
RDP is old and busted, ICA is the new hotness. RDP is basically like pcAnywhere or VNC...it relies heavily on sending bitmaps back and forth of screen changes (not always, but with the foofy windowing effects of even certain business applications, it's increasingly become the standard case). It must also operate in a separate session window that floats above the user's actual desktop. Cut and paste is sloppy, file transfer is kludgy, and data shuffles back and forth on the RDP connection in
Re:MS RDP (Score:2, Informative)
As for the reason that it was integrated into the kernel, it wasn't
Re:MS RDP (Score:3, Informative)
Uh, no. Have you ever actually used RDP as more than a "oh gee, nice of them to finally include that"? Doing VNC on a machine on the local network crawls. RDP even over a dialup feels almost as responsive as sitting at the remote machine (except you quickly gain a full appreciation of just how often networks "hiccup").
Citrix essentially invented the technology behind RDP and ICA.
If by "invented" you mean
It's all about the printing....and multi-platform. (Score:2)
Citrix also allows more in depth clustering and load balancing tha
Re:It's all about the printing....and multi-platfo (Score:1)
I hate to break it to you (especially since I'm no MS Fanboy), but I've had a single app published through MS Terminal services on a Win2k server for a couple years now. If you RDP to that box, and log in, all you get is the one application that I published...
Re:It's all about the printing....and multi-platfo (Score:2)
ProPalms TSE (Score:2, Informative)
It functions using a client that extends Microsoft's RDP protocol, allowing for seamless publishing of apps from multiple load balanced app servers. The backend servers compromise vari
Terminal Services / Remote Desktop (Score:2, Informative)
The downside is mainly in licensing, you'll need to purchase a CAL from MS for each user you want to "remote connect" (Not sure how you had citrix licensed). I'd also reccomend locking down access, either through a roubst firewall system or preferably a VPN.
Weird... (Score:1)
Citrix features (Score:2)
Windows terminal server can do everything you need (Score:1, Informative)
But your administrators should already know this since you have to have Windows Terminal Server in order to have Citirx MetaFrame.
Terminal Server (Score:4, Interesting)
Local printing from a Terminal connection is handled nicely, and most printers are supported via printer driver redirection... for example you will map the user's HP Photosmart xxxx printer to the Windows Driver for the "HP 950c" printer.
This package makes printer redirection easier: http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/f/2/9f23
My understanding is Citrix reigns supreme WRT USB and availability. You simply cannot sync your USB Palm pilot via Remote Desktop. And clustering for Terminal Services is limited relative to Citrix.
As for other options... you might check out Linux Terminal Server Project. Without know the specific software packages you use Windows might be your only real option at the moment.
-sid
Re:Terminal Server (Score:2)
This makes it trivial to man in the middle, and there will be no warning (unlike ssh for instance, which will tell you the host key has changed). There are point and click tools available (google for cain + abel, available from oxid.it i believe) for doing this too.
Aside from that, remote desktop is a lot more bandwidth hungry than cit
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Remote Access (Score:2, Interesting)
SunRay (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.sun.com/sunray/sunray2/ [sun.com]
Pretty slick stuff and Sun's been doing it for about 5 years or so.
Re:SunRay (Score:2)
You mean smallish form factor diskless machines booting off of and running applications from a central server? Suns been doing that for more than 25 years. Try googling for "Sun 2/50".
I tell 'ya...kids these days...
It's an Application Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
The one thing I noticed again and again: the applications that we wanted most onm Citrix were those that did not do the job we wanted them to do. They were old, poorly coded, intended for different environments, or simply did not do what we required them to do. It was common knowledge that analysts would go out and buy software and then hand it to use and tell use to make it work, even when it was clear to us that the software was never designed to do what we wanted it to even before we put the CD in the tray.
This accounting software you have seems exactly like the same kind of situation. You're being asked to wedge an application into a role it was neither designed nor intended to perform. Consequently, you might wish to consider looking at a different accounting app instead of a different remote app server.
Re:It's an Application Problem (Score:2)
Re:It's an Application Problem (Score:1)
Windows has had Terminal Services support in the kernel since NT4 Terminal Services, and the ability to do a unix style command line shell for an arbitrary number of simultaneous remote users since 3.5.
NT has always, since day one, had process isolation, proper file system ACLs (something many Unix based systems still dont have). NT doesnt distinguish between local and remote consoles, allows both at the same time. And NT can be run fully headless,
protocol-level acceleration (Score:2)
Basically, it's an appliance that sits between your WAN connection and the rest of your network. It understands most protocols that send bulk data over the network, and does transparent caching such that the clients on your network don't notice anything (except improved speed), and the server on the other end still thinks it's sending the data.
I saw a demo at a CUUG [cuug.ab.ca] meeting, it was quite impressive.
are you on drugs? (Score:1)
Terminal Services (Score:1)
I don't remember if you could easily access local drives, but, unless you have some special requirements, you probably don't want users storing their data locally, but instead on a central server.
As for printing, the user could choose to allow their local printer to be connected to the server within their session; it worked pretty well.
Of course, seeing as I am a
Re:Terminal Services (Score:2)
Incidentally, rdesktop, a Linux RDP client, offers the ability to attach to the root console of a 2003 server, which is very handy if 3 of your colleagues have inconsiderately left RDP sessions running, locking you out of the box. With rdesktop -0 foo.bar.com, you can attach to the root console, log them out, and then get a "normal" RDP session. I've searched high and low for a similar feature in the MS client, but I can't find it. So, I take my Linux laptop to work for the sole purpose of being able to log
Re:Terminal Services (Score:1)
The standard client download on the MS website only supports the old RDP protocol. Although I don't have my notes anymore, I found this blog [blogs.com] that has a solution that sounds vaguely familiar.
Software...other than Citrix or Remote Desktop (Score:2)
WinConnect Server XP enables a Windows® Small Business Server 2003 or Windows® XP computer (Host PC) to allow up to 21 remote desktop sessions. It allows Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) 4.0, 5.0 5.1 and 5.2-enabled Thin Client devices (such as Terminals, Internet/Information Appliances, Tablet PCs and PDAs) to connect to a Host PC to run Windows® applications simultaneously and independently. Price: WinConnect Server XP can be purchased for US $299
Re:Software...other than Citrix or Remote Desktop (Score:2)
From the company's FAQ:
http://www.thinsoftinc.com/products_wcs_faq.html#f aq8 [thinsoftinc.com]
Do I need to buy additional software licenses?
The WinConnect Server XP allows multiple users to simultaneously and independently share the same hardware and software installed on the Host computer. Some software is licensed for use on a single computer while other software may be licensed for single or multiple users. It is the responsibility of the WinConnect Server XP purchaser/user
Re:Software...other than Citrix or Remote Desktop (Score:2)
TS CALs are less than $100/user if without software assurance, and about $141/user with software assurance.
Win XP Pro licenses you'd need would have to e purchased as a retail package, at $299/user. Neither OEM nor any volume license would work.
On the other hand, Windows Server can be licensed through volume channel for significant savings.
As an example:
Open Value - (1) Win 2003 Std Server, (5) CALs, (5) TS CALs, (3) year software assurance: $2238
Same scenario but with Open Business, no softw
Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote Des (Score:2)
While there are some solutions that
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote (Score:2)
ePrinterAnywhere, on the other hand, I posted the client on our intranet for everyone to download and could *easily* explain to them o
Re:Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote (Score:2)
And what I don't understand, and MS does not expl
Re:Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote (Score:2)
The drivers are on the server, the client doesn't need to know or care about the specifics of the printer... It just needs to know the paper size, porttrait/landscape and wether or not to print in color.
The client sends the print job to the server in a standard form (postscript i believe) and the server converts it to whatever the printer requires.
The server has the drivers, the clients don't need any drivers... I use this method to print from linux and other unixes, to
Re:Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote (Score:2)
Usurper_ii
Re:Fix problems printing from Citrix & Remote (Score:1)
CUPS is Common Unix Printing System. Essentially its a modern replacment for lpd (but it can do a lot more than lpd, including being lpd :-p ).
Citrix Runs on TS (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Citrix Runs on TS (Score:2)
It's a really popular rumour actually, one that probably has some truth to it.. [brianmadden.com]
Essentially the rumour is that Microsoft pushed the working demo of published apps (Or Bear Paw) from Windows 2003 R2 to Longhorn Server (essentially 2007) because Citrix agreed that they wouldn't make Metaframe for Linux.
Nomachine NX (Score:2)
http://www.nomachine.com/ [nomachine.com]
Windows Server 2003 Terminal Services (Score:2, Informative)
sun secure global desktop (tarantella) (Score:1)
This product of Sun's is definitely an enterprise-level competitor (and really hits the sweet spot when used with their thin-client products).
...why switch if Citrix is getting the job done? (Score:1)
Re:...why switch if Citrix is getting the job done (Score:1)
NotePad == WTF? (Score:2)
I have a multi-score-element client LAN set up with Linux workstations using the simple and effective but not superfancy rdesktop(1) [rdesktop.org] app to hit the few remaining MakeBux4BillO$ machines left, and some Win16+ apps runnng well on the workstations under WINE. Although the client is a reasonably large (for any WestAus) publisher, OpenOffice.org [openoffice.org] has worked out well in practice for much of their work. They also h
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
You said this, but didn't state why you're searching for alternatives. Is it because it's too expensive, because you need more features, or because you think there's a better alternative out there?
I think about the only argument you can really have is that it's expensive. There really are no other alternatives out there with more features (other than perhaps value-add things on top of Citrix Presentation Server, the new name for MetaFrame) or more stability/usefulness.
Some shops are able to make-do with the lower costing alternatives, but they have to live with far fewer features (e.g. only allow full desktops, don't do printing very well, have no way to load balance, have no way to isolate bad apps from one another, etc). If your needs for it are lighter then you can try piloting a Terminal Services-only solution which is (necessarily) less expensive than a Citrix one.
It's hard, though, for people to offer something better than Citrix. They've spent their entire lifetime focusing on the whole remoting applications gig. TS and RDP was built on top of code licensed from Citrix, so even MS takes a backseat.
More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:5, Interesting)
To address the accounting software...there is no way we will be changing, so that is not a viable solution at all.
As far as investigating alternatives, we are currently running 3 Citrix MetaFrame servers. Right now, they are barely holding us user-wise, so we're replacing the existing hardware with more servers and adequate hardware. In the process, we will be moving away from Windows 2000 for a number of reasons.
So, do we continue to run Citrix and purchase the licenses for additional users as well as a version upgrade, or do we attempt to put a Windows Server 2003 solution into place utilizing Remote Desktop? Or what else?
Our current Citrix setup is not adequate, and not simply because of hardware, but printing is a total nightmare. There are so many levels involved with printing a report from our Solomon accounting software, it adds complexity to the very act of printing, so much that Citrix routinely breaks. Whoever is running helpdesk on a given day fields a significant number of Citrix calls, and generally speaking it is not the user's fault. It is extremely frustrating to say the least.
Hence this investigation. So I hope I shed some more light on the situation and please keep the suggestions coming.
We rely heavily on Microsoft Exchange, so keep that in mind when suggesting other OS-based solutions. I'm instituting a few BSD solutions for other tasks, but making the switch completely is very far down the road.
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:1, Informative)
Printing problems that plagued a good application server are a thing of the past.
Stability of PS4 on 2003 server is rock like. No more mystery crashes without even a memory dump to point a stick at.
What version of Citrix are you running.. I didn't see it stated anywhere!
To tired to create an account.. I'm here just for the pictures.
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:1)
If it doesn't I've been thinking about just installing a PDF printer driver onto the Citrix servers, configured to either e-mail the files to the user or put it onto a share. For the kind of reports that the users do from Citrix this would be fine, with the added bonus that they have an electronic copy they can send to people if needed.
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2)
Citrix printing was
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:1)
I have the unfortunate experience of supporting a rather large application in a rather large bank. This application is on a pair of load-shared Windows Terminal Servers 2003. We've been fighting problems with trying to get SIMPLE PRINTING to work for the entire time. If printing is your big issue, I don't see how moving to WTS is going to help you at all.
If anyone can prove me wrong and that it's just some sort of configuration issue, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! If you can make it work for us, I'll
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2)
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2)
Printing in citrix is less than perfect, but in recent versions it seems to work reasonably well. I'm not aware
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2)
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:1)
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:2)
I never used Citrix... but I know of two other operations very similar to my own that switched away from their Citrix installs and went with Terminal Server 2003 instead. Their reasons? Server 2003 was "good enough," printing "just worked," and Citrix "was complicated."
They found TS2003 easier to deal with for their needs.
While I cannot give you have ins
Re:More Info on the Topic at Hand (Score:1)
Look at a Caymas Box (Score:1)
Citrix versus others (Score:1)
On the other hand, you may wish to give NXServer a try, as it can proxy your Windows Terminal Services servers, and you only need one NXServer per given
Run a test. Its easy (Score:2)
Printing to a local printer is easy and reliable. Havent tried much else. I've never been compelled to use citrix for anything.
My solution for remote printing issues (Score:2)
1. Users log on through VPN
2. Users' machines are domain members configured with local print queues
3. VPN Machines auto-register in DNS
4. We provide the remote printers and refuse to support anything else - an HP mono or color laser device
5. We create server-based print queues pointing to those remote printers as \\Machine\PrinterX with appropriate security settings to restrict access
6. Users choose to print to their assigned printers from the
X11 (Score:1)
web, vpn (Score:2)
No matter what you do, whether people can print on local printers and access local drives is largely a networking and management issue. Yes, Citrix makes it work in one way, but th
SSL VPNs for Citrix Remote Access (Score:1)
You can go a few ways here - one is to leave Citrix on the LAN and use an SSL VPN for the WAN. AEP (which used to be Netilla) makes a good box for this. It'll either forward the ICA clients down in Java to the end user or you can skip Citrix and use AEP thin technology to serve apps remotely. Cool stuff. There's a white paper for this on their site aepnetworks.com. I think also it's the only SSL VPN to do Linux. Forgive the ad but it's a good box.
Eric
FreeNX! (Score:1)
Open source, free, supports remote X, RDP * VNC and you can run authentication through PAM for 2-factor authentication support.
Citrix vs. Windows 2003 (Score:1)
I use Citrix Presentation Server 4.0 at my day job. I will tell you that Citrix can handle much larger user loads than Terminal Server. In addition, it has very bandwidth friendly connections (roughly 8 times 'thinner' than RDP). The printing in the newer version has been greatly improved as well (it used to be a nightmare in 1.8).
I support roughly
What about video? (Score:1)