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Is Microsoft Silent Before a Deadly Storm?

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the big-companies-jump-far dept.

492

M$FTjack writes "Discussions about Microsoft are all over the place, esp. with its recent delays to Vista. Some consider Microsoft to be doomed, while others say Microsoft is silent before a deadly storm. According to the article on CoolTechZone, the author believes that Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise. From the article: 'So why am I citing all these examples? Simply because I think Microsoft is itself poised for a big leap. Despite all the rumors about Google and how it will topple Microsoft, I don't see that happening in the near future ... people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because of the sheer familiarity and comfort levels (BSoD et al) that they have with Microsoft software.'"

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492 comments

Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (5, Interesting)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149790)


the author believes that Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise.

No - thats the way Apple works (taking people by surprise with cool new stuff)

Microsoft announces products years in advance in an attempt to stop people buying the competitors products. When MS's software finally arrives, it tends to be..... dissapointing.

people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because of the sheer familiarity and comfort levels (BSoD et al) that they have with Microsoft software.'

No, this should read:

people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because of vendor lock in - they will continue to need to run specialised applications that only exist on the windows platform.

Quotes from the article:
Let's start with Vista. Fine, so it got delayed by a few months.
Gosh, that's the worst mispelling of six years I've ever seen!
Microsoft Office 2007. I don't know the last time I felt so good about a piece of software. It's just superb. While it doesn't have too many earth shattering features,
Thats just the problem - no new features compelling people to upgrade from office 2000 (or 97 for that matter)
Windows Live. The world is going ga-ga over Google Earth but it can never match the clarity that Microsoft's local.live.com has.
The only feature on Live Local I like is the birds eye view - and it doesn't work where I live! (large US cities only). A pity - as virtual earth problaby has better data then google earth, its just that google earth presents it nicer!
Microsoft is working overtime to get its search right. Its indexed search feature in Vista negates the need to install Google Desktop.
Riiiight...just like IE7 will mean no need to install firefox!

Analysis like this presents Google as the only competitor to MS - but the fact is their market is being chipped away from all sides, by a multitude of competitors.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (1)

StupidStan (773027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149834)

steve jobs, is that you!?!

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (2, Funny)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150011)

Steve Jobs would never use my nickname.... no matter how much he deserves it :-)

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (5, Funny)

alexhs (877055) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149867)

> Let's start with Vista. Fine, so it got delayed by a few months.

Gosh, that's the worst mispelling of six years I've ever seen!


It's not a mispelling, it's a twist. Vista only got delayed by a few months. Longhorn on the other hand... :)

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (4, Insightful)

Sivar (316343) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150185)

>> Let's start with Vista. Fine, so it got delayed by a few months.

>>Gosh, that's the worst mispelling of six years I've ever seen!

>It's not a mispelling, it's a twist. Vista only got delayed by a few months. Longhorn on the other hand... :)

It's not mispelling, it's "misspelling"

Back on topic, I have been amazed at big a deal everyone is making about the Vista delays. How often are software projects late? Um, always?
Indeed, system vendors will be irate, but the idea of Microsoft being "doomed" as the Slashdot article states is patently absurd. Microsoft is such a massive empire; their fall would take decades and a long and consistant string of terrible screw-ups. A few products being late, even years late, might scratch their bottom-line, but it will hardly lead to their demise.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (3, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150212)

I have been amazed at big a deal everyone is making about the Vista delays. How often are software projects late?

It's a matter of scale, really. Longhorn is the biggest failed project in software development history, at least in the private sector. The previous record holder would be IBM Office Vision.

-jcr

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (2, Insightful)

Zephyros (966835) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149918)

No - thats the way Apple works (taking people by surprise with cool new stuff)

What if MS is actually learning something from Apple's success and trying that strategy out?

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (5, Insightful)

Rocketship Underpant (804162) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150056)

"What if MS is actually learning something from Apple's success and trying that strategy out?"

That probably wouldn't work because of their sales strategy. They sell companies expensive 3-year subscriptions with the promise that they'll get Microsoft's latest and greatest when it's ready; to make the sale, naturally, they have to hype the products in the pipeline.

If I recall correctly, Vista/Longhorn was supposed to be out in 2004, 3 years after XP. Some corporations paid a lot of money for a lot of nothing in 2001 and the following years, based on empty promises and grossly miscalculated shipping dates.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (3, Insightful)

Zephyros (966835) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150120)

You have a good point - Apple releases consumer products with sudden fanfare, while Microsoft has a lot of corporate customers.

However, while they have to be as open as they can about Vista, Office, and other corporate necessities, consider projects like the Origami, or a rumored XBox handheld. They could really benefit from an Apple-style buzz and launch.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (4, Interesting)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150176)

Cancelled my subscription last year because of it.
Last good piece of software was MapPoint2004. Now Google Earth does what I need from it.

Total raping of customers is what they're doing with this crappy Software Assurance.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (2, Interesting)

TheWanderingHermit (513872) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150213)

MS doesn't work that way. Never has and as long as it's run by the current guys, it never will. You've got nothing but braggadocios at the top, laced with (as Susan Ivanova said) testesterone poisoning. These are not people who have ever understood subtlity and have taken every chance they can to tell everyone else how great their next product is. If they're silent, it's because they've got diddly. Even with their "secret" projects they start blabbing early.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149945)

Microsoft announces products years in advance in an attempt to stop people buying the competitors products. When MS's software finally arrives, it tends to be..... dissapointing.

Indeed. To quote computerworld from 1995:

Last month, the U.S. District Court jurist in Washington suggested barring Microsoft from making vaporware announcements because doing so can allegedly freeze the market and discourage buyers from purchasing competing products.

This has always and continues to be their strategy. As far as I can tell, this time their entire marketing plan is

"Don't buy a Mac or install Ubuntu or else you might miss out on Vista's similar UI candy".

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (0, Flamebait)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149954)

No - thats the way Apple works (taking people by surprise with cool new stuff)

FreeBSD has been around for years, apple works by taking old stuff and putting it in a pretty box so that it looks like cool new stuff.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150204)

But that is what every "upgrade" to most software has been over the past few years -- taking existing algorithms and utilities that do exactly what they need to, and designing a better UI. I recently came to the conclusion that until a completely new method of using a computer is developed (like usable speech recognition), there will be very few new utilities and functions released -- how many new ways are there to make use of a keyboard, mouse, monitor, network, and filesystem (when you get right down to it, that is exactly what using a computer entails these days)? I also believe that when this new method is perfected, it will put Microsoft (and Apple, Sun, IBM, etc.) back where they were in the mid-80s: scrambling to be the first to the top.

Now, I know we are all inclined to say, "but everyone learned their lesson back then, so Apple will come out on top, right?" Wrong -- Apple's business strategy has yet to change. Yeah, sure, they are in the lead with iTunes, but notice: only Apple can sell songs on iTunes, only Apple can make MP3 players for iTunes, and using the same strategy that worked so well in the early 90's, Microsoft is building alliances and gearing up to dominate Apple again.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (2, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149973)

Gosh, that's the worst mispelling of six years I've ever seen!

AFAIK, Vista wasn't delayed six years. That seem to rather match the time it has been in development.

But yes, it was likely delayed more than a "few months" at least due to them deciding to throw out the XP kernel and base it on Server 2003's instead.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (5, Informative)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150039)

But yes, it was likely delayed more than a "few months" at least due to them deciding to throw out the XP kernel and base it on Server 2003's instead.

They didn't "decide" to make the kernel transition. Rather, much like Duke Nukem Forever, technology changed so much while they were in development that they saw now loss in changing the "engine". In the process they dumped much of the work they have completed, and started largely anew.

It was the result of the first iteration being a complete disaster.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (2, Insightful)

ejdmoo (193585) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149985)

Thats just the problem - no new features compelling people to upgrade from office 2000 (or 97 for that matter)

Have you seen Office 2007? They actually tried this time. It has new features, and it's actually way better to use.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (4, Insightful)

ichigo 2.0 (900288) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150013)

Let's start with Vista. Fine, so it got delayed by a few months.
Gosh, that's the worst mispelling of six years I've ever seen!

I don't remember MS promising to deliver Vista in 2001, and I doubt you have proof to the contrary... ;)

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150160)

It would be nice to see Microsoft come up with something but I've become so disenfranchised from them that I really don't care anymore about them. If they were to relase some software for Linux or even Mac that is cool, I might start to pay attention again but this Vista lockin crap has me alienated from them.
They just don't produce good products and definitely a brand I don't trust anymore.

Anything from them is simply similar to the PlayStation market. I'm not a PS player and any addon for that platform just isn't exciting to me. If I were an XBOX or Nintendo player and they(Sony) developed an ultra cool device for all game platforms then cool.

Re:Microsoft is never silent before the storm. (1)

MECC (8478) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150210)

Actually, 'vista' will have been microsoft's first in-house ground-up build of an operating system since DOS. Dave Cutler and his team built NT/2K/XP for ms, and he would tell MS execs to drop certain feature requests when he though it was interfering the the delivery process for NT - there's nobody at MS to do that now.

Probably better to remain silent than to speak and remove all doubt....

I doubt it (4, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149792)

Given the internal conflicts within Microsoft between application teams and the fact that the community gets leaked memos and rumors from time to time about inner goings on, I would say no, they are not working on anything special. The amount of human resources required to develop these "next gen apps" that they allude to within Microsoft would most likely generate some rumors that would have given us such an indication. Microsoft is under too much of a microscope for something like this to slip by. If it is a new development, then it will be a while before we see such apps. Besides, Microsoft's marketing technique seems to be based on people knowing what are going to be in their applications before they are released. I think this is just wishful thinking.

Re:I doubt it (2, Funny)

umedia (964947) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149893)

"Besides, Microsoft's marketing technique seems to be based on people knowing what are going to be in their applications before they are released. I think this is just wishful thinking."

Almost two years know and I'm still waiting for application and driver support for XP 64-bit.

The only storm ahead is the one in which fisherman Gates is played by Clooney... of course Gates ends up on an island of billions of dollars as the business world mops up the mess.

Re:I doubt it (1)

baadger (764884) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150078)

Application support? Most applications I use all work fine on XP x64. What one's do you have trouble with?

Antiviral apps are the only problem i'm aware of along with apps that modify shell context menu's (which is not too difficult to fix)

Re:I doubt it (1)

umedia (964947) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150151)

"Application support? Most applications I use all work fine on XP x64. What one's do you have trouble with? Antiviral apps are the only problem i'm aware of along with apps that modify shell context menu's (which is not too difficult to fix)" You are correct all those 32-bit apps run fine. Just call me silly for wanting native 64-bit apps that send chills down my spine.

Yes, that reminds me of the firm you mention (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149804)

Silent but deadly. An apt description.

Re:Yes, that reminds me of the firm you mention (1)

Neuropol (665537) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149881)

Yes. That's exactly what I'm personallly expecting. The stinkiest, raunchiest, dead-awfullest, silent-but-deadliest ...

And it's come full-circle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149809)

Rumors of microsoft's death? Netcraft have anything to say on it?

I trust Microsoft completely..... (-1, Troll)

Farfnagel (898722) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149820)

... to screw their users and to continue to sell shit sandwiches at ham and cheese prices.

Re:I trust Microsoft completely..... (5, Funny)

Necoras (918009) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149874)

Microsoft is a lot like McDonalds... Both are global forces and probably aren't going anywhere soon. But you feel kinda guilty after buying anything from either of them, and you usually have a bad taste in your mouth for days...

Re:I trust Microsoft completely..... (3, Funny)

cerberusss (660701) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149998)

Strange. When reading your post, I mentally replaced Microsoft with the word "women". And it still made sense.

Conversely, cooltechzone.com's server... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149823)

...was silent after a deadly storm (of traffic).

am i really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149825)

the second post?

Minds wonder and wander. Is there still a lameness filter?
Will i grow old? How many times will i marry?

maybe stormy silence before a Death? (3, Insightful)

yagu (721525) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149828)

Key moment in the slashdot article:

Despite all the rumors about Google and how it will topple Microsoft, I don't see that happening in the near future ... people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because of the sheer familiarity and comfort levels (BSoD et al) that they have with Microsoft software.

I think the user community along with the technical community approaches the tipping point with Microsoft, especially with more and more alternatives like web based applications. Microsoft may join that fray, but they've sandbagged themselves, and they may not recover so nimbly this time (though I'll never count Microsoft out).

Microsoft has spent so much ill-will capital, the collective technology users' almost (almost) want Microsoft to go away. Microsoft is still powerful, but a lot of that power today is inertia as Microsoft tries to think of ways to re-invent itself yet again in time to maintain its control. I hope it doesn't.

Meanwhile, users (though they don't quite yet know it) are offered virtually every function as a web application, at least for ninety percent, and in many ways the new applications surpass the old resident application paradigm for convenience, service, and ease of use and maintenance.

Re:maybe stormy silence before a Death? (1)

KDan (90353) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149902)

Yes, to respond to the /. article... actually I'm seriously looking at a Mac for my next computer. All I really need M$ for is games anyway, and I don't play those that incredibly often. If I can have XP on dual boot for the games, no need for even a PC!

Daniel

Re:maybe stormy silence before a Death? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150037)

Uhh yeah genius. You need Microsoft for the XP and not for the PC.

Re:maybe stormy silence before a Death? (3, Insightful)

caffeinemessiah (918089) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149928)

Microsoft has spent so much ill-will capital, the collective technology users' almost (almost) want Microsoft to go away.

I wouldn't agree. The collective users minus the knowledgeable community are just happy that the "media center edition windows" that came equipped with their dell lets them do all this "new" cool stuff. don't count out a dazzling UI, fancy-sounding jargon or some other gimmick to win back the ignorant hordes, because I really doubt that true innovation will come by and kill or beat some of the great products already out there.

Either that, or look out for a deadly string of buyouts. Honestly, I love using Visio because it feels so different from the rest of the Office suite. Things just work sometimes -- made me finally give up xfig. If I'm not mistaken Visio was a company that made ...Visio...and then got bought out by MS.

It's true (1)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149829)

the author believes that Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise/

And that app is named Duke Nukem Forever. No really. Instead of just displaying number in a spreadsheet the little avatar has a machine gun and shoots "virtual" holes in your spreadsheet to match your data. Its pretty cool. And if you don't take proper care of him, then machine guns the whole screen until only the blue in the back can be seen. Good stuff.

That is exactly how I work (4, Funny)

Mr.Dippy (613292) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149841)

Sometimes when I eat a lot of burritos and drink a lot of beer I won't say anything for like 20 minutes and then I unleash my deadly storm! So if you see me silent in a taco bell then run!

Re:That is exactly how I work (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149896)

ROTFLMAO!!

Remind me to stay the heck away from you around lunchtime!

In all seriousness, this is really strange considering MS has been trumpeting all sorts of "new" technologies. Longhorn has been delayed, but only for the home market. The business sheep who think MS has good products will still bend over and drop their pants for Bill The Gates and take whatever they can get.

Re:That is exactly how I work (1)

Horatio_Hellpop (926706) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150001)

Please, please give us the address of the Taco Bell that serves beer. Talk about paradise.

Microsoft is not doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149842)

Microsoft is actually duke nukem forevered in that it will take them forever to go out of business.

article summary (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149844)

"M$FTjack writes..."

Where's the picket sign? DOOM (5, Insightful)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149864)

Come on, MS doomed? Is the other side of the picket sign "End of the world"? MS is huge, they have a HUGE customer base. They are not going out of business anytime soon. They have TONS and TONS of highly qualified techies who are working to make new products that MANY people will buy.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (4, Funny)

Itninja (937614) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149931)

They have TONS and TONS of highly qualified techies

So with the 'obese American' factor figured in, that amounts to about, what, 20 guys?

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (1)

stinky wizzleteats (552063) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149939)

MS is huge, they have a HUGE customer base.

There is a difference between relevance and survival. Chevrolet, for example, is a surviving, but irrelevant company who will be around a long time because they are huge and have a huge customer base.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (1)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149976)

There is a difference between relevance and survival. Chevrolet, for example, is a surviving, but irrelevant company who will be around a long time because they are huge and have a huge customer base.

Irrelevant? Come on dude. MS is hardly irrelevant, and hardly having a hard time surviving. What was it they make like 250 (or 500) million every two weeks? They are surviving and the are relevant and they are a big market player. There is no question MS has been here, is here and will continue to be here for a very long time. Just because you (and others) may not like MS does not mean they dont have tons of ingenious/creative people working for them.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (1)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150073)

MS is doomed if they keep up their current product-based strategy. MS is today what IBM was in 1990 [msversus.org] . They will eventually be forced to change their business strategy to focus more on services than products. Eventually their software will not make them as much money. They'll have to turn to business services just like IBM if they want to still bring in the big cash.

Here are some references, a little old but still relevant:

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (2, Insightful)

ebyrob (165903) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150081)

Microsoft has two economically successful products. Windows and Office. As long as at least one of those continues to sell the way it has been, they'll remain in business. Of course, assuming that's a foregone conclusion is just silly.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (1)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150134)

MS is huge, they have a HUGE customer base. They are not going out of business anytime soon. They have TONS and TONS of highly qualified techies who are working to make new products that MANY people will buy.

As the old saying goes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Enron was once a really big company, with lots and lots of really smart employees. GM was once a really big company, with lots of really smart engineers, and now it's teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Kodak was once a really big company, with ownership of entire markets.

Of course I don't think Microsoft is going anywhere anytime soon, and they have a lot of superlative products (many of which were released in late 2005. SQL Server 2005, Visual Studio 2005, .NET 2.0, soon Biztalk 2006, and so on. A huge percentage of what Microsoft was working on was recently released, so I think the author of the "article" being discussed just wasn't paying attention), however their dominance is in question, and seems to be a thing of the past.

Not only have they lost almost all technical clout, but there just really isn't much interest in what they're doing anymore. Whether it's because the market has matured enough already, or competitors have taken Microsoft's crown, is debatable. On the revenue side Microsoft has been forced to start squeezing "lost revenue" that it previously overlooked, through mechanisms such as Software Assurance, efforts against professional piracy (investigative teams, rewards, customer snitch lines, and so on) and casual piracy (e.g. activation, genuine advantage), and so on. If Microsoft starts to truly get desparate, expect patent assaults on Linux and other competitors.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (1)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150171)

Enron was once a really big company

Totally irrelevant - Enron lost because their upper execs scammed the company. Are you just throwing company names for the hell of it?

GM was once a really big company

Another irrelevant case. You're comparing apples to oranges. GM is losing out to other major competitors who are able to produce at a cheaper rate - plus people still see foreign cars as superior to domestic. MS, with it's about 90% market share does not suffer such an issue. It's biggest competitor is Apple. Which while a great company, is not causing them that much of a pain - especially with corporations still using MS products (for the most part). Linux with it's lack of drivers, and ease of use for the average user (yes it is more trickey to use) - plus it has an image of "that computer genious' thing" will not come close to MS for a long long time in terms of customer base.

Re:Where's the picket sign? DOOM (0)

TechGooRu (944422) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150158)

You got it right. While most people at this site are Linux fanboy's and despise anything and everything that Microsoft ever does, they continually miss the point: Microsoft is the biggest and most successful software production house in the history of the world. The open source community projects envy through hate. The brightest minds in the world work for Microsoft. They produce software 24 hours a day, everyday, of every year. I don't understand why people don't get it. Microsoft's software runs the world because they are the best at what they do. I mean this "best" in every sense of the word, from technical innovation to business partnerships. If you're too blind to see it, you're in denial.

Now, that's not to say they're not shady. But consider for a moment, many of the best business' in the world have questionable practices. They're not 'fair'. Look at the oil companies. Get a grip, people. Life isn't fair, and as a Windows and Linux admin for the past 10 years of my life, i would rather manage an enterprise based on Microsoft products because of the enterprise management tools they offer. Every other operating system is at least 5 years behind in enterprise management. So before you bash them, or get off topic with "microsoft suX0rs", get a grip, open your eyes, and see reality for what it is: Microsoft continues to win because they are the best at what they do.

A silent but deadly storm... (0, Offtopic)

jlowery (47102) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149872)

Light a match!

Doomed!? (1, Redundant)

mdboyd (969169) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149873)

Who honestly considers Microsoft to be doomed? They have too many products spread across several different technology markets to be anywhere near doomed. Is the writer dillusional?

Re:Doomed!? (1)

kryten_nl (863119) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150088)

They have too many products spread across several different technology markets to be anywhere near doomed.

This isn't allways a good thing. From a marketing perspective for instance, a bad product from one division of the company will reflect badly on all other divisions. Or to give another example, let's stipulate that Apache is the bestest server system outthere (might be, might not be, that isn't the point.... no, it really isn't the point). Now, MSN is still part of MS and is therefore required to work with an inferior server system (IIS in this example). It will therefore be more difficult for MSN to compete with others not burdened by a preselected server system.

MS is indeed doomed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150184)

in 10e^827 years when all matter is simply low-level 5K background radiation, Microsoft will be just a distant memory. TAKE THAT, BILLY GATES!

Windows Vista = "Meh" (4, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149878)

Besides Interface and Technical Stuff I really don't see the advantage of Windows Vista. Unlike the move from windows 3.1 to 95 when there was the issue of better Internet Connectivity, which everyone wanted, and "Real" Multitasking. The move from 95,98,Me,2000,XP to Vista will not have much of a difference. Sure in the long run they will be better off because of security patches and supported software for the newer version. But if they are happy with what they have now there isn't anything I can see that they really want or need in Longhorn that they don't have now. There is no big push to technologies like the Internet. It is just an improved same old same old. The reason for the Huge Migration from 3.1 to 95 was the promise of better Networking support making it easier to connect to ISP (For anyone who used winsock would realize), and "real" multitasking which allowed people to run long tasks in the background while doing something else.
But what is in Vista, Better Graphics, Some slight speed improvement on already fast computers, some things a little easier to use, better security for a little while. I rate all of them with a big "Meh" in my book and it will make it hard to convince people they they need to upgrade soon.

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (1)

Lord Satri (609291) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150027)

"The move from 95,98,Me,2000,XP to Vista will not have much of a difference."

You fail to see why Vista *will* be everywhere: because it will be installed by default on a -very- large number of computer sold in the following years...

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150105)

I took that for granted. But My point is that it will not get the fanfair and everyone upgrading like they did in 95. Sure New Systems will have Vista Installed by default and in 2 - 3 years it will be the primary OS used. But people using say 2000, and XP now will not be clammering to stores and Company IT Staffs planning a huge expensive migration to get Vista. Microsoft main competition is its self, with their old version. Hense most of their comercials stating how much better their product is compared to their old product. But there will not be the big 5 hour waiting at CompUSA for Vista Releases. At best people will hold their PC Sales to next year to get the latest version with their new System. But that is about it.

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150048)

Yes, Vista will be interesting to see how it goes to me, because if they've had trouble getting Windows 98 users to upgrade to XP, that's nothing compared to what we might see here. Btw, I think you leave out the upgrade to XP, which I saw as a major benefit for plenty of users thanks to the vastly improved stability and performance of the NT kernel. But this feels almost like 2000 -> XP to me, just with slightly more features. There's basically the new protected user mode that's most interesting to me as it's a security redesign rather than a patch, and could have more long standing effects for Windows.

But as for the UI, the new bundled tools there already are free variants of, the new accelerated interface (like XP's is sluggish after turning off the animations!?), there's a lot there I don't care much about.

I wouldn't be surprised if I first have to upgrade to Vista due to the new DirectX 10-only games that are bound to appear in the future. DirectX 10 won't be released for earlier Windows versions as a way for Microsoft to push their operating system.

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150054)

Besides Interface and Technical Stuff I really don't see the advantage of Windows Vista.

What is in an OS besides interface and technical stuff? Documentation?

But if they are happy with what they have now there isn't anything I can see that they really want or need in Longhorn that they don't have now... and it will make it hard to convince people they they need to upgrade soon.

Upgrade? No one upgrades Windows; well compared to the install base no one does. Some enterprises that have site licenses will upgrade, but they already paid for that with the ridiculous assurance program. For the most part users never upgrade the OS, they just buy new hardware that has it bundled. People will buy Vista because they are buying a new computer and it comes with it.

Until we see what is really in Vista, aside from rehashed OS X UI features, we can't really see if there will be a strong motivation for "power users" to upgrade.

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150225)

Until we see what is really in Vista, aside from rehashed OS X UI features

This is getting seriously tedious.

There are no more rehashed OS X features in Vista than there are rehashed Windows features in OS X.

Seriously. All the OS X fanboys can actually identify in Vista that isn't either (a) obvious, or (b) has been announced to be in Vista long, long before OS X acquired any such features, is... uh... transparency? No, wait, that comes under "obvious", and in any case Vista's implementation (hardware-accelerated translucency that blurs the background to keep text readable) is far in advance of anything Apple has shown us yet.

Oh, yes, and for some reason Apple fanboys are obsessed with the idea that Aero Glass is a ripoff of Aqua. Despite the fact that it looks absolutely nothing like Aqua. And when you point that out to them, they say "ooh, you're right. Actually it's ugly." Because they cannot comprehend that it is possible for something to exist which is not either ugly or a ripoff of Apple.

Well, whatever. This post will be modded into oblivion anyway, because I've dared to think for myself instead of fellating Steve Jobs. Run along and play, little fanboys. I'm glad you're having a nice time tucked away safe and sound within the Reality Distortion Field. Run along and play while we grown-ups get on with living in the real world, where Apple isn't perfect and Microsoft isn't entirely imperfect.

Re:Windows Vista = "Meh" (1)

baadger (764884) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150193)

If you look it that way then no operating system in existance has had much going on for decades. More modern software is about getting what you want to do done quickly and more easily, and thats exactly what Vista claims will allow us to do.

Personally I could live with Windows 2000 but use XP x64 because, well... I just got sick of some of the minor differences. XP has improvements. In Explorer we have the tile and thumbnail folder views, icon grouping by file type or name etc, the ability to hide tray icons (and choose which ones to hide).

Personally i'm hoping Vista will do something like Gnome with the Start Menu where my applications are listed by purpose and not under a useless 'Programs' submenu. I'm sick of applications just dumping themselves into the Programs folder on installation and messing up my carefully organised menu's and uninstalling an app only to find the shortcuts aren't removed (because I moved them).

Virtual folders might be interesting. Although so far I agree with you in that I am not enthusiastic about Vista. Now if only nVidia would put out a Vista x64 driver for the nForce 430 chipset so I could test it myself.

People are comfortable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149900)

...with the Blue Screen of Death?

Or what else would BSoD mean in relation to Microsoft?

Re:People are comfortable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150144)

Or what else would BSoD mean

"Bull$hit of the Day" comes to mind...

We can only hope so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149903)

I for one am sick and friggin tired of the continual Microsoft bashing that goes on here. Why don't you sorry jerk-offs get off slashdot and go to Monster.com. Maybe you can find an actual job.

What's really being said (4, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149905)

From what it sounds like, here's what this article is really saying: Please please please please keep the MSFT stock up so I can sell it for a profit!

It all evens out in the end... (1)

ZSpade (812879) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149927)

Microsoft may have announced a delay in Vista (thank god, I'd rather have it released right or not at all.), but Sony announced a delay in the launch of the PS3.

Microsoft has gotten so big, and diversified that if one division slumps a little, the others will easily be able to pick up the slack. It would take a catastrophy in several divisions to truly hurt Microsoft now. So what about a storm? We need only wait till Vista comes out, till PS3 comes out, and till the numbers on both are announced.

Personally, as I am sure most other slashdotters, I would like to see Sony prevail - see apple and linux rise, and see a market with true competition.

Re:It all evens out in the end... (1)

Buzz_Litebeer (539463) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150072)

It would take a catastrophe in their Office division to take MS down.

They make so much profit on MS office, that they use it to pay off other parts of the business that arent turning a profit.

They aren't silent (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149937)

They aren't silent, I think just rather unsuccessful at gaining momentum and large public recognition on a series of products part of their new online service initiative [live.com] going under the "Live" name, including Office Live.

Not to mention .NET 2.0, which is the latest version of their widely spanning development API.

There's then Vista, and Office 12 under production, and even IE 7.

Actually, it was quite a while since I last saw MS have this many balls in the air. Whether they're doing well or not at it is another question though, and one that can maybe not be answered well until early 2007 or so when at least IE 7 and Vista is supposed to be done.

No, no t ms (1)

SolitaryMan (538416) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149938)

...Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise.
Anyone aware of "next-generation [stuff]" that was born inside a huge corp and not in a startup? May be it just because in huge corps info is far more likely to leak, than in small startup, but anyway I never expect something "too cool" from big corps: they are too deep inside their bureaucracy and other sh** to innovate.

Re:No, no t ms (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150031)

> > ...Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise.
>
>Anyone aware of "next-generation [stuff]" that was born inside a huge corp and not in a startup? May be it just because in huge corps info is far more likely to leak, than in small startup, but anyway I never expect something "too cool" from big corps: they are too deep inside their bureaucracy and other sh** to innovate.

This latest gambit is amusing - either scare the competition into premature releases of tech (and make 'em burn through their venture capital early), or scare the venture capitalists into not investing in startups in the first place (because Microsoft is already doing the Next Big Thing).

Vietnam War: Anyone who runs is a VC. Kill 'em. Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined VC. Kill them too.

Software Wars: Anyone who releases - runs out of VC. Burn 'em out. Anyone who doesn't release - doesn't get VC. Starve 'em out. Either way, you get to buy their tech for pennies on the dollar.

Nah, doomed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149949)

They're just doomed. Code base size grew out of control, and they're clearly not able to meet deadlines anymore.
Keeping back-compatibility made their code ugly and huge, like Ballmer.

Beware Office 2007, it is that good. (4, Funny)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149953)

Office 2007 is absolultely killer software. It is really the first time since Office 95, where it is a must-upgrade. Betas are pretty stable, the new interfaces are well thought-out, its good stuff.

Re:Beware Office 2007, it is that good. (2)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150021)

What does it give me that Office 2003 doesn't? What is the ROI on it? These are the kind of questions that will slow Office 2007 adoption.

Re:Beware Office 2007, it is that good. (5, Interesting)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150128)

Office 2007 is absolultely killer software. It is really the first time since Office 95, where it is a must-upgrade.

Must-upgrade the computer, RAM, monitor, video card.

I really would like to know what are the killer features that are so irresistible to you and the article writer. There really isn't much you can't do, in terms of least effort to get words on paper and make it look presentable, that you you couldn't do with Winword 2, or WordPerfect 6, 10 or so years ago. If a feature is important, you learn where it is and/or create a shortcut for it. (I was doing that in WordStar almost 20 years ago.) I know one answer will be "collaborative tools". I've yet to meet anyone who uses these in real life. It requires a unifirm level of competence in a whole group, and you just don't get that. Usually it will be the boss who just sends back files via fax with remarks scribbled on them. But most users are still pushing out one or two page memos, same as their great-grandparents did on Underwood typewriters over a century ago.

Re:Beware Office 2007, it is that good. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150140)


Office 2007 is absolultely killer software.

and let me guess, you're posting using its spell checker!

Beware of Marketing Hype (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150216)

Office 2007 is absolultely killer software. It is really the first time since Office 95, where it is a must-upgrade. Betas are pretty stable, the new interfaces are well thought-out, its good stuff.

To paraphrase Scotty: ... fool me 11 times - shame on marketers ... fool me 12 times ...

No, that's not it (2, Interesting)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149958)

Microsoft's big market is the corporate desktop market. Corporate users don't like surprises. They like it when you announce software a year in advance and give them specs well ahead of time.

MS also knows that most of their big corporate users probably won't be migrating to Vista for at least 2 years. It's expensive and it takes years to get a budget like that pushed through the beancounters of a big company.

This is a good opportunity for Apple to gain some marketshare on the home user side of things. Most of us shrug off Boot Camp as "Yeah, dual boot, I was doing that with LiLo in 1995" but for the non-techie users, Boot Camp is *HUGE*.

It means they are no longer tethered to Windows. They will buy a Mac expecting to use Windows 90% of the time, but they will start using Mac OS more and more and come to like it. Once Apple introduces in-house virtualization, they will realize they really don't need to boot to Windows at all.

Once this starts to happen, the big achilles heel for Apple (which is largely a myth anyway) -- software support -- starts to go away. No, Apple's not going to have 95% market share overnight (the corporate side is a lot slower to move and there really is no replacement for the Outlook/Exchange combo on the mac side yet,) but I don't see 25-30% as an unreasonable number. People are *looking* for an alternative to Windows, and Apple is in the right place at the right time.

Re:No, that's not it (1)

realmolo (574068) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150102)

Oh, come on.

Your argument boils down to "People will start buying more Macs because now they can run Windows!".

Right.

Re:No, that's not it (2, Insightful)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150187)

No, your argument parser needs some work :)

The argument is that people are fed up with Windows and the market is ripe for something that will replace it. Boot Camp makes the transition much easier on people because they don't have to quit Windows cold turkey.

People no longer trust Microsoft as they did in the past (right or wrong, most users blame Microsoft for viruses and spyware.) While Macs are not immune to them, the default security policies on OS X (have to enter a password to install anything) make it a lot harder to fool users into running attachments which install anything to their machine.

Re:No, that's not it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150118)

No, Apple's not going to have 95% market share overnight (the corporate side is a lot slower to move and there really is no replacement for the Outlook/Exchange combo on the mac side yet,)

Kerio MailServer comes pretty close, IMHO. It still needs some work, and it definitely needs something akin to Blackberry Enterprise Server, but as an Exchange replacement it is currently pretty damned good. It certainly has better Mac support than Exchange right now, Entourage's Exchange support sucks in comparison to the way Outlook 2001 worked.

Oh, and Kerio's webmail is gorgeous-- it does pretty much everything that Outlook Web Access does on Windows, but it does it on both platforms. No lousy CraptiveX nonsense needed.

Apple needs to either roll their own groupware, or just write a fat check to buy Kerio and integrate KMS into OS X Server.

They Have Already Started!!!! (1)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149962)

Hotmail! .net!
MSN!
MS Live!
MS Earth!
Origami!
Office with ribbons!
MS Paint!

Microsoft has for years been releasing cool new products that keep us more productive and, more importantly, provide job strong job security in the tech support field!

Yeah, so next time your banker or nurse tells you that the printer is broken, and that technology never works, you can just have her forward her thoughts to MS customer service.

Microsoft innovations? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149989)

According to the article on CoolTechZone, the author believes that Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise.

That would be like all the other new and innovotive things they have come up with in the past, like ... erm ... erm, 'Microsoft Bob' and ... erm ... oh yes, a talking paperclip!

Get over the BSoD (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 8 years ago | (#15149990)

That is so yesterday. Not just yesterday as in a few days, yesterday as in 1997, 1998.

Re:Get over the BSoD (1)

AppleTwoGuru (830505) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150148)

No, that was yesterday, as in the day preceeding today. We can't get over it because it keeps coming back, as well and Malware and Virus attacks. Now if you are talking Unix technology, then yeah. The last time I thought of the BSoD was when I had Windows on my PC or when I was running it in Win4Lin on Linux.

die u scum microsoft (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15149997)

i hope microsoft dies a terrible terrible death and everyone who got rich with microsoft lose everything

This whole thread (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150003)

should be modded as "redundant". Nothing new here from the last anti-Microsoft thread. No one has any new arguments, no one even has any new digs at MS. It's all rehashed /. rhetoric.

Nothing to see here (1)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150034)

When was the last time Redmond spat out anything new, exciting, or technologically earth-shaking? Why should they be doing so now? Where's the incentive? They have 90% of the market and therefore are not required by market forces to make any true improvements or upgrades to their current software, let alone create anything new. The only reason for Vista's existence is to try and improve on their sorry security record. Their competitors are all far behind and despite the popularity of a whole slew of technologies like Linux, MySql, etc., no one's really knocking on the door. Until MS's share of the market dips to about 70% don't expect BG to stop counting his money.

Storms (1)

C_Kode (102755) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150058)

No pre-existing apps/OS generally take anything by storm. People don't like *change* The only apps I can think of that took anything by storm are *new* apps that do something revolutionary. (i.e Napster, ICQ, and DOOM for gaming) (Yes, I know of Wolfenstein 3D but it was only a concept footstep to Doom which added the graphics to make the experience truely revolutionary) A new version of Office or a new version of Windows isn't going to make huge waves in the way people do things immediately. Google was so far ahead of all the other search engines and they still took several years to catch on and dominate with the general public acceptance.

Microsoft will be sold... (1)

AppleTwoGuru (830505) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150076)

to the Chinese Government. The government of China will ACTUALLY own Microsoft. You say governments do not own companies and profit from them? George Bush will change that. Long live Plutocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy [wikipedia.org] )

I tried to RTFA... (1)

sootman (158191) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150100)

... but the site's already down.

Assuming the summary is accurate,

"...the author believes that Microsoft will unleash an abundance of next-generation applications that will take everyone by surprise. From the article: 'So why am I citing all these examples? Simply because I think Microsoft is itself poised for a big leap.'"

Wrong. If MS had anything big up their sleeves--that is to say, anything that worked and was compelling--they'd have it out already. I'm not saying there's nothing cool left to be done with computers, but given MS's track record, do you really believe that they're just sitting on a pile of apps that will "take everyone by surprise"? No effing way.

"...people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because of the sheer familiarity and comfort levels (BSoD et al) that they have with Microsoft software.'"

This part is true. When people need a new computer, it'll come with Vista. When their games say they need Vista, they'll go buy it at CompUSA. When they need Office, they'll go buy whatever Office is current.

One more note: please, it's 2006. Can we let go of BSOD jokes yet? I've seen maybe 10 BSODs in the last five years with W2K and XP systems. Any time I see a BSOD reference I think "here's a guy stuck in 1998 who thinks Linux will rule the desktop because it's more stable." I know that a) he wasn't joking and b) he seems to like MS, but it's time to find a new representation of all things wrong with Windows.

And before you go posting links to sites that show pics of BSODs in airports, Time Square, etc., know that most of those systems are running NT.

Blahblah (1)

nnnneedles (216864) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150101)

What is the deal with tech articles and speculation that is always sensationalist and wrong?

Who are these people?

Office (1)

tengennewseditor (949731) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150106)

Most people who have previewed Office 2007 will tell you that it's actually really cool. Office has always had great features, and it's finally getting a decent UI (which it needs BADLY). Google is making a lot of headway with online apps, but online apps will never replace Microsoft's full featured office suite, especially in business where it really matters.

lots of cash but no modern browser (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150107)

Microsoft software costs way too much money.
Microsoft code (and bug fixes) can take years to get to the consumer.
Microsoft software isn't fun to use.
Live.com will eventually have a dhtml clippy2 that end users are going to love.

Do you expect me to believe that all of a sudden Microsoft is going to change? They actually win when there isn't any change. Now if they could only find a way to stop AJAX apps from being used...

Oh really (1)

demachina (71715) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150113)

Zonk, is it a slow news day so you felt compelled to post an article from a Microsoft fan boy (M$ftJack) just to start a pointless flame war in which probably nothing will be said that hasn't been said a million times before here?

For him to mention BSoD in his submission was just tired rhetoric. Yea I'm sure people are still running Windows 98 out there and seeing BSoD but that is what they deserve for running a crappy, ancient OS with no memory protection. Anyone running XP or NT isn't likely to see very many OS crashes any more unless they are hacked or infected. Windows security problems are a far more important talking point than BSoD. I'm guessing he put BSoD in his submission to distract some of the flamage in the wrong direction.

The fact is Windows isn't going away anytime soon whether they put out any exciting new products or not. Sure Apple is going to chip away at them from one end, for people who want cool computers and apps that just work and work together, and Linux may chip away at the other end, for the hard core who want control of their computers, but this slippage is among people that are technically literate. The fact is the vast majority of the unwashed masses, are going to have Windows sitting on their desk at work, and buy a computer for home with Windows pre-installed, and most wont even consider trying to run something else. Lots of people play games on their computers and unfortunately trying to run popular games on Linux or OSX is somewhere across the spectrum of painful, difficult or impossible.

That said the extent to which people's lives and computers are being made miserable by security exploits may well eventually create a tipping point of some kind though I'm not sure what it is. If OSX or Linux offered rock solid security and all the applications people want maybe people would jump over en masse but I'm afraid if OSX or Linux became the dominant OS they would become more of a target for exploits. I doubt they are as vulnerable a target as Windows but they are still vulnerable. The other possibility is Microsoft may have to try to really redesign their OS to be secure, and that could inflict things like Palladium on us. It may well be making Windows secure is an impossible task without throwing it out, starting over, and destroying backward compatibility which would probably eliminate Microsoft's death grip on computer user's throats.

Mac OS X Feature for Windows Users (1, Flamebait)

repetty (260322) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150143)

>> people (and I don't mean technology enthusiasts) will
>> continue to purchase Microsoft products simply because
>> of the sheer familiarity and comfort levels (BSoD et al)

When Apple started with switch campaign some years back, I thought that one of the things that they needed to include in OS X for Windows users who were switching was a Control Panel that invokes a "Windows-mode".

When enabled, the Mac would do bizarre shit on an unpredictable basis (OS crashing, audio disappearing, etc) and on a regular basis (ie: getting slower as time passes).

This would sooth new users, giving them characteristics of the environment that they were familiar with.

I wonder if there's an open source project for this sort of thing.

--Richard

Look at the auto industry! (1)

Wyatt Galen Houtz (858073) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150149)

Detroit will never be the motor city that it once was. The auto industry is to the point of a government service now, with low quality cars at high prices. The important thing is that those huge auto companies provide jobs to michiganders. Now, the company is so bloated and laden with legislation, it can't respond quick enough to create great products. Too much risk involved.

MSFT has all the marketshare that it'll ever need, and the products they make have business decisions and not product decisions in mind. They care about increasing revenue, and controling the market; you can do that without creating any good products! That's what i'm saying about the auto industry example.

I would love to see those detroit makes come up with something innovative that are something special, but its not likely to happen.

MS Windows Vista ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15150153)

Pony Edition?!!!~!1!

Topple Who? (1)

BodhiCat (925309) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150166)

How is Google going to topple Microsoft? One is a search engine the other makes operating systems and a word processing application. Despite all this talk about their map systems, both make their real money from totally different operations. Unless Google has a web based operating system up its sleeve and can provide everyone with broadband so that we can use it, I don't see Microsoft getting toppled anytime soon.

This from a Mac OS X using Buddhist Agnostic.

SBD (3, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15150174)

Silent? Deadly? I don't know, but they sure stink.
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