Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the cue-the-stirring-march-music dept.

118

GameDailyBiz reports that Microsoft plans to have one million 360's produced a month by the end of the year. From the article: "As has been previously reported Xbox 360 production and availability has already been significantly increased in recent weeks. In the period through Microsoft's fiscal year ending in June, the company expects to pump out 2 to 3 times the number of units it did previously. With Sony's PlayStation 3 launching this November across the globe, Microsoft still has a window of opportunity during which it can extend its lead in the next-gen race considerably."

cancel ×

118 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

November? (0, Offtopic)

solidtransient (883338) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164750)

I could have sworn I read somewhere that the PS3 was delayed until 2007. Am I remembering incorrectly?

Re:November? (2, Informative)

Ewan (5533) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164883)

You read it, the story was widely reported, but it wasn't true, just another internet rumour.

Sony have committed to a worldwide release in November 2006.

Ewan
ButtonBashers.com [buttonbashers.com]

Re:November? (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165123)

Sony have committed to a worldwide release in November 2006.

I don't buy that for a second.

Mark my words:

2007 (probably not even *EARLY* 2007)

-Eric

Re:November? (1)

Ewan (5533) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165316)

You might be right, but they have been very vocal with their statements about November. Which just means they'll look very stupid if it does slip into Feb/March.

More likely I suspect they'll put out a token amount in Europe so they can claim a worldwide release and spoil the Xbox 360 christmas sales with "Wait until January for more PS3's" hype, then not ship any more until March..

Re:November? (1)

dogbowl (75870) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165551)

2007 launch for sure.

Think about it .. their 6 year old product is still the top selling console in the US and the top selling home console in Japan (and I only assume the same is true for Europe).

Why would the want to cut off sales from their cash cow when there is no imminent threat? They're going to ride the PS2 as long as they can (without hurting the PS3).. after all, Sony is in the business of making money, not producing shiny new videogames for the betterment of mankind.

Re:November? (2, Insightful)

Ewan (5533) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165741)

That's true to an extent, but Sony do have a number of partners who's business plans rely on the Playstation 3 being on sale at the end of this year.

If Sony slip the release back, then the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Konami, etc, will make their displeasure quite clear, and might even stop or scaleback the PS3 developments they're doing - after all, the publishers would much prefer 1 system to have 100% marketshare, it would save them a fortune in development costs, and whether it's Sony of Microsoft doesn't really bother them.

Also, Sony are relying on the PS3 to drive Blu-ray in their battle against HD-DVD, if they were to announce that it wouldn't be out until next year, then you'd have some pissed off movie studios who have committed to Blu-ray movies when there's no mass-market players for it.

Ewan

Re:November? (1)

Schemat1c (464768) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167898)

I could have sworn I read somewhere that the PS3 was delayed until 2007. Am I remembering incorrectly?

I hope not because for some reason the release of UT2k7 is set to coincide with the release of the PS3. This includes the PC version, which is the only one I'm interested in.

I know this has been discussed before but I really don't like how the industry seems to be tied more and more to consoles these days. The only console game that has held my interest in the past 6 years has been Katamari. The only console I would even consider buying in the future is the Revolution due to it's controller but I'm still going to wait a few months after it's release to see if even that is worth it.

That's no moon... (4, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164762)

It's an XBOX Manufacturing station...

Re:That's no moon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165138)

Actually, that's just for making the power supplies.

Re:That's no moon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165198)

More like an Xbox 360 power supply, AMIRITE. And she's about to blow, run!

"the company" (2, Informative)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164764)

The quote in the abstract is quote misleading. Mr. Lin from the Wistron company said it; Wistron makes some of the 360's for Microsoft.

Playstation 3 (0, Troll)

Seriously, who (969215) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164767)

Seriously, who would buy an XBox 360 given that the PSX 3 is out in a few months? We all know that there are going to be way more games for the PSX3 than the 360.

Commodity parts == Fast time to market (0, Offtopic)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164776)

In WWII, the Japanese designed the "zero-sen". It was light, fast, and could outmaneuver anything in the American air fleet. Unfortunately, it was also built from the ground up each time. No two zeros were the same, so no parts were generally interchangeable.

On the other hand, American fighter planes were pretty much cookie-cutter designs. If a flap needed replacement, it could be replaced with scrap from another plane. The lifetime of each plane increased significantly because it was simple to cannibalize other broken/damaged planes to repair operational ones.

When you decide to build from commodity parts, you're deciding to sacrifice performance for development speed. Maybe the XBox 360 won't be as good as the PS3, but it will certainly be more available and cheaper than it.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (3, Interesting)

mikeisme77 (938209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164844)

When you decide to build from commodity parts, you're deciding to sacrifice performance for development speed. Maybe the XBox 360 won't be as good as the PS3, but it will certainly be more available and cheaper than it. Which is the same reason Nintendo's "underpowered" system shouldn't be ignored. They're parts are even more readily available than those in the 360 (with the possible exception of the controllers) so they should be able to roll them out quickly right out of the gate and with some EXCELLENT first party titles. If they can just get Konami, Square Enix, Capcom, et al to fully commit to at least one launch game (or soon after launch) than they may be able to reverse their recent console fortunes.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165341)

Why would they want to reverse their fortunes? Nintendo has always posted profits, and is sitting on several billion dollars in emergency funds. They might be ranked 3rd in this recent console war but from what I understand Nintendo does NOT take a hit on the hardware, they actually are able to sell the units at a profit. The last quarterly report had what came to 800million dollars in net income after operating costs. They might not be number one but they are sitting pretty where they are

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (1)

mikeisme77 (938209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165644)

Reverse their fortunes was solely about the market share. While forming a niche is nice, every company wants to be the top dog. With strong third party support and a price that undercuts their competitors, Nintendo can regain that top spot (a spot that I, personally, feel they deserve--as long as they don't abuse it like they did last time they held the position). Plus, I remember reading somewhere before about a comment Iwata made before the launch of the DS that if the new handheld and the new console don't succeed that Nintendo would have to consider folding out of the game because even though they may have profited from the GameCube they thought of it as a failure.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (1, Insightful)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164884)

The 360 seems to have just about as many custom parts as the PS3. The 360's CPU and GPU are custom designed just for the 360 and the 10MB EDRAM is hardly a commodity part. The 360 even uses some funky proprietary wireless signal instead of bluetooth(like the PS3).

If you discount the Blu-Ray drive then the PS3 will probably use less custom parts than the 360.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165181)

"The 360 seems to have just about as many custom parts as the PS3"
 
How did you come to that conclusion?
 
Let's look at the 360 - custom CPU, custom graphics, custom RAM, custom memory card. That's pretty much it.
 
It has a chopped up and cut down MS OS, a standard hard drive, USB ports and DVD drive. The wireless it uses is a standard household wireless technology found in headphones and the like - while it is not Bluetooth or Wifi, it is not proprietary.
 
Then you have Sony, who are trying to lock the PS3 into making Blu-Ray a success. They have issues with the drive itself, HDMI and HCPI problems, a custom chip which is radically different from almost everything else out there (PPC architecture is at least known, Cell is brand new), a custom graphics chip. Nothing about the PS3 is off the shelf, the only possible exception being Memory Sticks.
 
What does this tell me? It tells me that the PS3 will be pretty damn good, but it needs that trade-off between off-the-shelf and custom bits. I'm still baffled that people consider the 360 a failure - the PS3 isn't even here yet, and the Revolution is so advanced it boils down to a controller design - the equivalent of which could be replicated for other consoles...

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (1)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165418)

I recall, however, that this was the same situation as with the last round. PS2 with custom parts and Xbox with commodity. But Sony was able to bring their costs down a lot more than the Xbox.

How would this not be different? Your Jap Zero analogy does not hold AT ALL.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166244)

"The wireless it uses is a standard household wireless technology found in headphones and the like - while it is not Bluetooth or Wifi, it is not proprietary."

Where did you come up with this??? I'd love to see the specs to the 360's wireless interface, but the only thing that has been freely published is that it uses the 2.4Ghz frequency... what are you basing this on? Do you have headphones that use this????

  • HDMI ports - very commodity(you don't even need a stupid adapter). HDMI is going to have to be graphed onto the 360 if it wants to really support HD-DVD
  • Cell - Cell has a much better chance of becoming a commodity part than the 360's CPU. Neither the Cell nor the Xeon are good with unoptimised binaries
  • GPU - both use specialized GPUs, although the 360's incorporates an off-die 10MB EDRAM buffer
  • hard drive - the 360 will not accept standard hard drives(that's why they get away with charging $100 for a 20gig), it's unkown how the PS3's HD system will work.
  • memory sticks - still better than those stupid 360 mem cards
  • USB - why the Hell even bring this up?
  • software - The 360 uses an NT Kernel and has a lot of the win32 libraries(directx etc). This really only makes ports from PC games easier(not better)

The Blu-Ray drive is special and will increase the price, but it also lets you play HD movies. Oh, and I expect to see at least some of the ideas from the revolution's controller put into the PS3's controller.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15168511)

Hmmm, interesting take.

HDMI ports - very commodity, but you do need a 'stupid adapter' if you don't have HDMI (or a damn expensive cable!). Plus you have HCPI to deal with. The 360 does fine enough with VGA and component which - while not purely digital - is good enough for a HD output.

Cell - point me at anything right now that uses it, or anything that makes you go 'wow' that uses it. Maybe it's another Emotion Engine PR stunt? And point me at some programmers that program for it. I don't give a shit about unoptimised binaries - the same rule went for the Dreamcast and look where that ended up.

GPU - so what if the 360's uses off-die memory? Maybe on-die memory is more expensive?

Hard drive - neither will accept a 'standard' drive, unless you open the case/rip off the plastics and add your own. I doubt the PS3 will allow anyone to rip the case off and dump their own SATA 300GB drive in there!

Memory sticks - still proprietary. Just wait for Sony to roll out the latest, smaller format version.

USB - because there are lots of USB things you can plug into a 360, like an iPod for example? Or a *gasp* PSP!?

Software - easier ports is a good thing. Remember; software is everything!

If the PS3 BOM really is $899, then Sony's entire 2005 profits will be wiped out if they sell a few million of them, it's that simple. PS3 is everything to Sony. It will be good, but for them, not for you! And no, I have no bloody idea what 2.4GHz headphones the grandparent is using - Xbox ones?

BTW, bearing in mind your original post title, and Sony's current debacle, it's clear to see that; Commodity parts != Fast time to market!

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166446)

Aren't the CPUs just rather normal G4 PowerPC processors? And the GPU something close to what we have in PC? Sure, its still a bunch of custom stuff, but the PS3 Cell and BluRay seem to be quite a bit more complex.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15167596)

The 360 CPU is a 3-core 3.2 Ghz cut-down powerpc, similar to G4 but not something you get in standard workstations (I think it's more optimised for being cheap and having good game performance, rather like the Cell but not taking it so far).
The GPU is basically a PC one (with different memory architechture), which is also true of the PS3.
So, yeah, I think it's fair to say the PS3 hardware is more exotic, although Cell and Blue-ray were both designed with the (misguided?) assumption that they will become standard hardware...

p.s. I get my info from /., take with salt.

Smoke And Mirrors (2, Interesting)

mikeisme77 (938209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164780)

Just ramping up production won't mean more people buying them. Maybe some none sports/FPS games would help things out. Or a game that you can't buy for $10 less on the older generation (might not be as pretty, but it's $10 less and is just as fun). Lower system price would be nice too, as only the early adopters (most of which have their 360 already) are willing to pay $400+ for a system with little original content.

1 million per month? (2, Interesting)

Generic Guy (678542) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164793)

At one million per month, it sounds like they're going from terrible undersupply to terrible oversupply.

Re:1 million per month? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15164978)

There is no 'undersupply' of 360s :)

360s have been in stock in all major US retailers since late February.

One just has to look at the 360 numbers:

Microsoft has been INCREASING production of 360s over the past few months.

However, monthly sales of 360s have been DECREASING over the past few months.

There just isn't much demand for the system outside of the existing hardcore Xbox demographic. Microsoft is on track to sell less than three million 360s this year.

Re:1 million per month? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165055)

Any refrences to support this claim? Not saying it's wrong, but I can't find any sales figures.

Re:1 million per month? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165693)

Actually, the NPD numbers I saw said 161k units for the US in February, 192k in March. So I'm not seeing a drop month-on-month at all.

Re:1 million per month? (2, Interesting)

brokeninside (34168) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166382)

According to NPD March Game Sales Specifics Added [gamasutra.com] , the PS2 is still outselling the XBOX 360:
on the hardware front, it was revealed that the Xbox 360 sold through just under 200,000 copies in North America in March, showing the continued shortages of the console, allegedly now ameliorated. Elsewhere, the PlayStation 2 still led the way with almost 275,000 sales, and the Xbox (just under 85,000) and GameCube (just under 65,000) brought up the rear.

This compares to 160k XBOX 360s sold in Februrary according to February game sales continue slide [gamespot.com] :

According to industry sources, more than 160,000 Xbox 360s were sold in February. That compares to more than 300,000 PlayStation 2's, more than 170,000 PlayStation Portables, and over 150,000 Nintendo DS units sold during the month of February.

The only really interesting number to me is that almost six months after the launch of the 360, PS2s are still moving off the shelves faster than 360s. But before one reads to much into that, it ought to be recognized that the 360 hasn't been introduced into all markets while the PS2 has pretty much gone into every geographic area where it will be sold. Hence when the March numbers were released, which included Australia for the first time, it wasn't the same comparison as for February. The flip side of that fact, though, is that XBOX sales in existing markets may have declined in March. I don't know how many units were sold in Australia and other new markets that ought to be subtracted from the 200k March figure to compare to the 160k Feb figure.

In any case, better numbers won't really be availible next year. IMO, the key numbers to watch for (assuming Revolution and PS2 launches this fall) will be the Q4 2006 reports. Although, it will be significant if the PS2 continues to outsell the 360 in Q2 and Q3 of 2006.

Re:1 million per month? (2, Informative)

MHolmesIV (253236) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167555)

I'm not surprised the PS2 is selling more than the 360, it's _half the price_ of the core system.

In fact, I'm impressed that the 360 is making the inroads it's making, if you compare the shares from February to March, the numbers go from 34% of the combined 360/PS2 sales to 42% of the combined sales. And the PS2 absolute numbers are trending down. That's a very good trend for a console that costs twice as much at a minimum.

When you count both XBox and 360 sales, they outperformed the PS2 last month. While you may consider this irrelevant, it's not, since the development tools and libraries on the two boxes are similar, so it's not that much extra work to target both (as a number of games have done, Ghost Recon, for one). In that way, you mitigate the risk of releasing on a new console with the established user base of the old one. That will make companies more likely to support the 360, and more support means more games, more games means more users etc.

Will the PS3 have the same advantages? I don't know. Initial reports from game developers indicate that the development environment is quite different, which requires all new skillsets, and therefore more risk for a company supporting the platform. But that's just initial reports. The toolset may change.

That's an interesting take (1)

brokeninside (34168) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167813)

But if you're going to add XBox + XBox 360 to make a comparison, should you not also add PSP + PS/2 and Game Boy + DS + Game Cube to compare it to?

I still maintain that the most interesting numbers won't come out until early next year.

Re:1 million per month? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167795)

Good to see your sources agree with mine, then.

The launch of the 360 in Australia is a red herring, though - NPD numbers only cover US sales.

Re:1 million per month? (2, Informative)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166397)

Really? Because the best buy here in az checked the computers and there is not a single 360 at any best buy in arizona. Walmart and target said the same. So where are these 360s, Japan?

Re:1 million per month? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15166563)

Give the 'sold out' bullshit a rest clown.

Right there on Walmart's website there are 360s in stock.

Right there on Amazon's website there are 360s in stock.

Anyone who wants a 360 can have one shipped today and be in their homes this week.

Re:1 million per month? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15166724)

Oh, you mean those retarded bundles that for the most part try to con you in to buying the core system and some games you probably don't want? Most people are waiting for the standard premium console. They don't want all these stupid bundles that are over priced.

Re:1 million per month? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167245)

Oh, you mean those retarded bundles that for the most part try to con you in to buying the core system and some games you probably don't want?

Nope, just the "premium" system for $399.

Here [bestbuy.com] order your damned Xbox, you can have it the day after tomorrow and quit your bitching... Oh, what's that you say? You already have one, or you wouldn't be blathering on like a fanboy? Where'd you get it? I thought there was a shortage?

Re:1 million per month? (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167326)

You mean the one on that page which is marked "coming soon"? The one that's, you know, like, out of stock?

Re:1 million per month? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167223)

So where are these 360s

Apparently, stacked in an enormous pyramid on the floor at BestBuy in Marlboro, MA.

Re:If only the US had a free market system!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165007)

Surely, overproduction will drive down prices! We'll all own numerous xbox 360s, because they'll be so cheap. They'll be everywhere.
This is what my high school economics teacher told me about! Fuckin' awesome!

God Bless America, and God Bless Microsoft!

Re:1 million per month? (2, Insightful)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165528)

Why would anyone care? In the consumer driven market, oversupply would mean the cost of an individual unit would decrease. Combine an overage of product with the competition of the PS3, and prices would fall even more. Consumers would be the ones who would make out like bandits here, so why is anyone complaining?

Re:1 million per month? (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165867)

Not necessarily. If the things aren't selling, retailers will stop buying systems. Microsoft could then try to lower the price to make it more attractive to the consumer, or if the retailers can't get rid of "them damn bricks", they could dump them at dirt-cheap prices.

It isn't a question of supply and demand when you have one supplier whose main interest isn't in making profits on the machine.

Re:1 million per month? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15166569)

I hope so. Just had to send my son's 360 back for repairs today -- started freezing up after only 5 days of use.

(i guess i should've had him wait until 360 version 3.0 was released, eh?)

My only question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15164796)

is where are these 1million a month going to go? B/c they certainly aren't hitting US stores. I have yet to see an Xbox360 in the wild that isn't a display console. So, 1 million a month... are they going to be shipped to poor African countries to compete with the $100 laptops that Microsoft talks bad about?

Ooo Ooo! I know! Japanese shelves so they can take up the shelf space that keeps getting vacated by the DS Lite handhelds that keep selling out! Or maybe they plan to stamp out the PS3 by hording all of the shelf space formerly held by Sony consoles! Brilliant! Stamp out the competition by preventing them from hitting the shelves!

But... what about island displays? Like in a grocery store where things are just stacked up in the middle of the floor? ACCESSORIES! Stack 'em high, stack 'em everywhere! Flood the market with over priced, slightly demanded accessories! Yes! Microsoft will secure their lead for sure!

How many 360's sold to date? (2, Interesting)

ZombieRoboNinja (905329) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164833)

Increasing the rate of production is all well and good, but how big is the installed base for 360 right now, and how big do they expect it to be by the time PS3 comes out?

I'm especially curious about non-US markets here. Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan? Last I heard, the answer was no; what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States, but the PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan? It would be kind of a weird dichotomy...

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15164910)

The 360 has sold a little under 1.5 million worldwide so far.

About 100k in Japan.
About 800k in the US.
About 500k in Europe.

The 360 has been selling around thousand or so a week in Japan. It has been selling less than the GameCube over there.

"what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States"

That just isn't going to happen. The 360 is the worst selling console since the 3DO; even the first Xbox and Dreamcast sold significantly better.

Most troubling for the 360 is it appears to be selling less and less each month.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (2, Informative)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165056)

Just to clarify, those are basically the number announced for units sold between the launch (Nov 22nd) and Dec 31st '05. We probably won't get another set of reliable numbers until thier next quarterly report.

The numbers above are basically correct (but I think the number was 900k in North America), but just an thought I'd add in the date range that those were for as it could easily be mis-understood to represent more current numbers (which aren't yet available).

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165206)

And given that for the most part (except in some seemingly isolated areas) the systems are sold out, it's fair to assume that the demand is much greater than those figures would let on.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165263)

I think the 360 just broke 1 million in the US by the end of March. And I think the 360 is a 120k in Japan now - not that that matters. So I would assume they are in the 1.7-2 million range now. Regardless, there is no chance in hell Microsoft is getting anywhere near their 3-4 million first six months target for sales.

Good numbers from Europe are hard to come by, but so far it has been selling at around half the rate of the US.

I think the US sales for the past three months have been something like(just going by memory, correct if anyone has better numbers):

Jan: 240k
Feb: 220k
March: 180k

If there really was high demand for the system there should have been a massive jump in the March numbers due to the increased capacity Microsoft has been talking about.

The numbers do mesh well with the general lack of interest I've noticed for the system.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1)

LearningHard (612455) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165023)

Well, I wouldn't be too worried about Japan since they are a very small market especially compared to Europe and the United States. I know that the local Japanophiles would want you to believe they are the end all be all but unfortunately they aren't especially from the consumer side.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1)

sexyrexy (793497) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165249)

US population - 300 million Japan population - 128 million Europe population - 705 million Now, if the US has twice as many technologically savvy people as Europe, and Japan has twice as many as the US (a rough estimate, but rather likely) then when looking at those sales numbers again, I don't think the argument of market size has anything to do with the discussion.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165503)

Nintendo sells approximately 250,000 Nintendo DS' per week in Japan; that is similar to the number of XBox 360s sold per month across the world. The Japaneese market is similar in size to the North American market in spite of having less people (meaning they sell more games per system and Game Sales == Money). Japan is home to many of the Largest and Most respected game developers in the world.

A console may survive without Japan but no console can thrive without Japan.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165075)

It would be kind of a weird dichotomy...

It would be the norm.

Exporting culture, whether it be in the form of a game, a book, a movie, or a high-tech gadget is difficult.

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (-1, Troll)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165077)

PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan

So do atomic bombs. You don't see everyone rushing out to buy those, do you?

Okay, well, maybe Iran. But not everyone.

-Eric

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1)

anti-human 1 (911677) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165086)

...what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States, but the PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan? It would be kind of a weird dichotomy...

What we will get is a lot of crappy ports for either/or system. Madden '08 will be made to run best on 360, but Soul Caliber 4 will be designed to run on PS3 the best. I have a feeling that Nintendo will get a few high quality third party games, but will be doing most of their business off first party properties. Ports from other consoles will be fine, as wavebirds and the like (the cube's controllers) will work with the new box.

Besides, how good will rehashes of old sports games be? (ooh, how bout Nerf makes a football "controller" that you put the revolution remote in, then GO OUTSIDE AND ACTUALLY PLAY FOOTBALL? OMG FRESH AIR!)

Re:How many 360's sold to date? (1)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165874)

Granted this is from a Nintendo fan-site, but the 360 is only beating out the GCN in terms of sales by ~700 units. At the same time it's being soundly trounced by the the Game Boy Micro, Game Boy SP, and is getting a very large beat down by the PS2.

http://www.nintendojo.com/editorials/view_item.php ?1145322602 [nintendojo.com]

Unfortunately, they don't say where the stats come from, but I'm sure they can easily be found on the net (I just can't remember what company usually reports the Japanese sales figures)

Reason why.. (1)

paullyjunge (953573) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166096)

Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan?

Nope, that's why they can pump out a million a month for the US.

Maybe not (1)

OSS_ilation (922367) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164929)

I have a roommate who went back to WoW a week after plunking down more than $600 for a 360 and 3 games. Maybe Mr. Lin was talking about 1 million units total.

Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them... (2, Insightful)

Schezar (249629) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164950)

There is no more shortage, and there hasn't been for some time. I see Xbox360s for sale at standard retail price, both the "value" edition and the full one, all over. Anyone who wants one can just go pick one up.

I wonder how many people who don't already have an Xbox360 are actually going to buy one in the near future. Microsoft likes to spin this as though they're producing more units to cover the huge demand and reduce shortages, but said shortages are now nothing more than an illusion. I honestly believe that most everyone who wants one already has one or can't really afford one.

It's funny how, despite all this, I still think that Sony is in a worse position than Microsoft in this round of the console "wars."

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them... (1)

emerrill (110518) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165120)

While I do agree that this is hype from MS, and if they produce 1mil/month, they are going to need alot of warehouse space...

The shortage still exists in localities. In my area, the only the only 2 places that carry them (walmart and shopko) are barely getting them. Shopko hasnt had any in months, and walmart gets maybe 5-10 a month, and they sell w/in a day or 2 of receiving them.

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them... (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165509)

I wonder how many people who don't already have an Xbox360 are actually going to buy one in the near future.

I know two people who just bought Xbox 360s, and I'm getting one next month. The constrained supply was a huge factor in our decisions to get them now.

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them... (1)

radish (98371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166723)

There's still a shortage in many areas, and a good supply in others. Hopefully we'll see that sorting itself out over the next few weeks. Having your product actually on the shelves can only help sales!

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them... (1)

jchenx (267053) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167183)

I think it really depends on where you live. Where I live in "Microsoft country" (the greater Seattle area), Xbox 360s are still very much hard to find. It's gotten a lot better, no doubt, but I still don't see them just sitting on shelves. Everyone I know who REALLY wanted a 360 has one, but some of the folks I know who are more casually interested in the console are still waiting till they can just pick it up at their local electronics/game store.

I've heard the same shortages from friends around Austin and the Northern Virginia area. But I have heard people claim, in more rural areas, that yes, 360s are much more readily available.

360s (1, Interesting)

the computer guy nex (916959) | more than 8 years ago | (#15164970)

"I'm especially curious about non-US markets here. Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan? Last I heard, the answer was no; what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States, but the PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan? It would be kind of a weird dichotomy..."

Microsoft didn't even run one commercial or print ad for the 360 in Japan prior to launch. That is a good indicator of what MS thinks of the Japanese market.

MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.

Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165041)

Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.

I'm just curious, how much does Microsoft pay you guys?

360's are all over the shelves. It's all a big game. The 360 isn't really selling that well. Most people are waiting to see what Sony and Nintendo come out with.

Re:360s (1)

PhoenixFlare (319467) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165059)

MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.

Based on their past performance - dead last in Japan, almost neck-and-neck with the Gamecube in the US, and losing billions of dollars....I wouldn't get your hopes up quite yet.

Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.

A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.

Re:360s (1)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165240)

and losing billions of dollars

Just as a bit of a reality check, the last good numbers availble were through Dec 31, 2005 when they had sold 1.5 million 360s. Assuming that by "billions" you meant at least 2 billion they would have to be losing at least $1,333 per machine and getting no roalties on any games.

Re:360s (1)

PhoenixFlare (319467) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165317)

Just as a bit of a reality check, you could also realize that I was referring to past performance with that line, i.e the original XBox.

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165331)

"through Dec 31, 2005 when they had sold 1.5 million 360"

That claim by Microsoft has already been debunked.

Not only did Microsoft not sell 1.5 million by the end of 2005, they didn't even ship that many.

Re:360s (1)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165540)

"through Dec 31, 2005 when they had sold 1.5 million 360"

That claim by Microsoft has already been debunked.

I would be very interested to see this debunking! Was it some blogger or something who just make the statements to that means it debunked? ;-) Below is a quote from the MS 2006 Q2 (period ending 12/31/2005) Form 10-Q SEC filing. Ask your accountant how likely it is that MS would lie about those numbers on a SEC filing ;-) Since SOX has been enacted these things are taken VERY seriously and could result in criminal charges against Ballmer (who signed of the the filing)!

Home and Entertainment revenue increased during the second quarter of fiscal year 2006 primarily due to an increase in Xbox revenue of $125 million or 12%. Xbox revenue increased mainly due to the launch of Xbox 360. 1.5 million Xbox 360 console units shipped,

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165990)

Shipped =\= Sold

All I can add to this conversation is personal observation (which is mostly useless) ...

There is a significant demand for XBox 360 Bundles the XBox 360 Core system simply doesn't sell. Locally (I can't speak for the general market) anyone can walk out on any day and buy a core system because they are on the shelves of pretty much every electronics/games store (it has been this way for awhile); in fact the only core systems that have sold were durring the drought when people "needed" to have an XBox 360. The bundled systems (on the other hand) still sell out pretty quickly.

One thing I have noticed is that people seem offended by the Core system; they recognize how much cheaper the Bundle is than buying the Core system and accessories, and are outraged that Microsoft would (intentionally) produce so few bundles to "gouge" (their term) their consumers. I actually suspect that Microsoft will make the situation worse by creating a HD-DVD bundle (basically the bundled system with an HD-DVD player), making an add on HD-DVD player, and keeping the core system the same. Consumers will see the $300 core system, $50 (tempory) Memory Card, $100 hard-drive, $150 HD-DVD drive and notice the $400 bundle; they will also notice that the bundle is sold out (hd-DVD will add another bottleneck into their production) and feel that Microsoft is Nickel and Diming them.

Re:360s (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167152)

Another reality check -- not only was the original poster referring to the XBox, not the XBox 360, but you seem to forget that there are other costs associated with selling these machines.

Advertising in every medium possible so that they can give potential customers the impression (illusion) that your product is cool isn't free. Paid award shows (informercials for people too stupid to realize they're watching an infomercial) on SpikeTV and MTV aren't free. They have to ship the boxes from the factories (though, admittedly, that might be included in the cost of manufacturing). They have to pay management types like the ex-Seamus Blackley tons of money to do whatever it is they do. They have to pay R&D costs, licensing fees for any technology they don't own (DVD playback), and god knows what else.

There are tons of ways to lose money besides selling something at a loss.

--Jeremy

Re:360s (1)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167427)

Since the entire thread was discussing the 360 I'd assumed he was talking about the 360 since he didn't say otherwise. My bad I guess.

My problem is all the non-sense numbers that get tossed around here. If I'd been able to guess that he was referencing a completely different product line than the one being discussed, than I wouldn't have been so bothers because by looking at P&L breakdowns in SEC filings I can at least see that it isn't complete gibberish. However, based on my false assumption that the numbers he was quoting were trying to be relevant to the conversation (360) I just haven't seen any numbers to come close to supporting such figures. Thus, I pointed out a simple breakdown of what he was saying would mean (in simple terms).

Of course there are other costs, but until you can quantify those costs your just another poster pulling numbers out of their ass. That's my point and my issue! If you want to make such statements have the numbers to back them up! For a separate product line than is being discussed, yes those numbers are in line. For the product we ARE discussing, I've seen no numbers to suggest such a thing so I was nicely trying to point out for him what he was saying. Since I don't have the numbers, I cannot do a complete breakdown to prove him wrong but my "reality check" numbers sure make the claim (I assumed he was trying to make) look very suspect. That's all I was trying to say.

What's the difference? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165537)

A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.

There is no difference between demand quantity that exceeds supply quantity and supply quantity that falls short of demand quantity: QD > QS iff [wikipedia.org] QS < QD.

Think logistics instead of economics (1)

brokeninside (34168) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165645)

A horrible supply problem such as shipping thousands of units to retailers where there is no demand rather than to retailers where there is demand would certainly explain the conflicting anecdotes of some posters claiming that units are just collecting dust on the shelves while other posters claim that no one can find them in stock.

Come to ohio (1)

Nazmun (590998) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166730)

We've got tons of 360's... All the samsclub's have a large number of the $399 bundles.

Re:Come to ohio (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167085)

All the samsclub's have a large number of the $399 bundles.

Is a Sam's Club membership worth the 40 USD per year?

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165066)

Dunno about the US, but they don't seem to be flying of the shelves in Europe.

Every store here in Ireland has had Xbox 360 in stock for the past 3 months. I gather the situation is more or less the same in the UK and in France... Don't know elsewhere.

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165104)

Wow, just wow, you are shameless, aren't you? If MS didn't care about the Japanese markets, why the hell did they ship a single unit to Japan? If folks in whatever backwards town you live in were lining up to buy 360s, why the hell were thousands of them sitting on shelves across the Pacific?

Re:360s (1)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165313)

If folks in whatever backwards town you live in were lining up to buy 360s, why the hell were thousands of them sitting on shelves across the Pacific?

What is "Because the supply and the demand may vary based on geographic location", Alex?

They tried to crack Japan's market. And failed. (2, Informative)

ianscot (591483) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165390)

MS meant the new box to make inroads in Japan. They did advertise, that's just wrong anecdotal information on your part. The first XBox died in Japan and they wanted to do something to break into that market, no question.
"Since the launch of the original Xbox in 2002, there was one thing that we have consistently said: Microsoft will inevitably succeed in Japan."
-- Takahashi Sensui, Microsoft Japan's Xbox division manager

From this Boston.com article [boston.com] :

"A major part of Xbox's troubles have stemmed from the lack of role-playing games, which are favored here over the shoot-'em-up and action games that tend to be hits in the U.S.

Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft Corp. has made a point of signing on game designers popular in Japan to deliver works like "Final Fantasy XI," set to go on sale later this month."

...Microsoft will also beef up its entertainment downloads catering to Japanese tastes, such as animation trailers, and online gaming available on its online service Xbox Live."

Back in September The Register described MS's problems with Japan the previous time around:

"In a bid to get the product right for Japanese consumers, Microsoft was forced to delay the Xbox's introduction, from December 2001 to February 2002. Hints that it was pondering such a move surfaced way back in March 2001. It did little good, in any case. Microsoft went on to take the axe to its Japanese Xbox workforce in March 2003, before going on to announce a strategic rethink of the Japanese market the following July. Xbox has yet to dent Sony or Nintendo's sales in the country, however.

This time round, Microsoft has made sure it has recruited some of the biggest names in Japanese gaming to the cause. It said it would be showing titles from Square Enix, Genki, Konami, Taito, Namco and others at the Tokyo Games Show."

They clearly wanted to gain ground in Japan. Based on the huge advantage in release dates you'd think they'd have some traction. Right now their sales are last in that market -- behind the GameCube.

Meanwhile I can walk to the nearest GameCube here in Minneapolis and find 360s stacked up on the shelf selling at list price. Huge demand: no. Not here anyway. Some mild interest -- it's the newest thing -- but the kids playing Call of Duty down at Target can't afford to buy the dang thing.

Re:They tried to crack Japan's market. And failed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165538)

"Meanwhile I can walk to the nearest GameCube here in Minneapolis and find 360s stacked up on the shelf selling at list price. Huge demand: no. Not here anyway. Some mild interest -- it's the newest thing -- but the kids playing Call of Duty down at Target can't afford to buy the dang thing."

Microsoft and the diehard Xbox fans really blew it with these "Sold out everywhere!!!" claims. It's as if they didn't figure that people other than Xbox fans shop at stores that carry 360s and see them sitting there unsold.

It has now become a joke that just reminds everyone just how badly the 360 is selling.

Re:360s (1)

romrunning (963198) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166270)

No standing in line @ Costco now... perhaps the shortage was to supply enough units to Costco/Sam's.

Re:360s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15167040)

MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.

From a few days ago:

Damn it, "the computer guy nex," can't you at least do yourself the service of staying consistent with your trolls? Is trolling less fun that way, or what?

Quite trying to reconcile your Microsoft fanboyism with reality.

Shortage? Not on Amazon. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15165333)

Re:Shortage? Not on Amazon. (1)

Ed State (961103) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165895)

Those are through Amazon's "Marketplace"... not that it matters *that* much, but these are 3rd party merchants. And if you click on the link, you'll see that the price goes WAY up after the first merchant (which is the advertised price), which are probably left-over poacher stock.

The truth is a lot of people want 360 *premium* systems. And theoretically, 360's 'are available' but it's misleading because the majority of the 'systems' available are these stupid bundles, core systems, or an over-priced combination thereof from poachers who are still desperately trying to make money on the 'shortage'. Yes, some poeple bit the bullet and bought that crap... but the rest of us waited (or are still waiting) until a premium system is available for the actual retail price. And that means no constant-calling the store, or showing up early in the morning. And NOT supporting these poachers or bundlers with our wallets. There are a lot of people simply waiting for it to just be 'in stock' when they happen to go to the store one day. And up to this point, it hasn't been.

I'd be interested to see how this sort of thing plays out w/ the PS3 launch... does anyone know if they're going to do 'core/premium' systems? Are they going to allow merchants to bundle? (Can they even affect it?)... and poachers just suck. They're going to be there anyway.

- my 8 cents

Re:Shortage? Not on Amazon. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15166550)

I agree completely. In fact, I'm using the selling price of the premium systems on e-bay as a guide of when to expect the systems to start showing up in the stores. I'm with you though, I don't want to waste my time calling the stores all the time or waiting in lines, if it's available then I will get one, until then I'll just wait. The only thing I've seen in my area (Central Illinois) and in several big cities on the east coast a month or so ago while traveling was display cases and empty shelves. I refuse to waste the money on a core system or a bundle with games/gear I don't want.

1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End (0, Redundant)

wvitXpert (769356) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165421)

" 1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End"
Hmmm... A normal month only has 7200 360s in it, hows that going to work?

Re: 1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End (1)

revlayle (964221) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165955)

Quantum mechinaics, i'm sure....

But how many... (1)

cspariah (958194) | more than 8 years ago | (#15165989)

...of those million units will be defective? Over the last two weeks, four of my co-workers bought XBOX360s. Three of them needed to be returned.

Re:But how many... (1)

redgopher (650527) | more than 8 years ago | (#15167378)

I know five people, including myself, who have had to RMA their 360s. My 360 is in repair right now, actually. I think the quote was 2-3% of the units were defective. That means if 1,000,000 a month are produced, 20,000 to 30,000 units will be defective.

This just in, Microsoft now the biggest employer in McAllen, TX.

XBox 360 Production Schedule, 2006 (3, Funny)

menace3society (768451) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166018)

April: 1
May: 2
June: 3
July: 4
August: 5
September: 7 (kickin' into overdrive)
October: 10
Nover: 12
December: 1,000,000

Good plan.

Re:XBox 360 Production Schedule, 2006 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15167207)

My favorite part is how they even planned for months that don't exist, like "Nover."

Apparently they see bad things for that month, considering they are expecting sales to be slower between October and Nover than between September and October. Calm before the storm?

*Yawn* (2, Insightful)

oGMo (379) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166229)

The PS2 sold just shy of a million on opening weekend [wikipedia.org] . Just in Japan. And 10,000,000 in 13 months.

I think we already see how the dominance in this generation is going to play out (unless Sony prices themselves out of the market); Nintendo's not claiming it (by design) and Microsoft can't reach it (by ineptitude)

However, they're still important... having 3 competing consoles last generation was the best thing for customers everywhere; just remember the pre-E3 price wars. Competition keeps companies on their toes.

Re:*Yawn* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15166378)

"However, they're still important... having 3 competing consoles last generation was the best thing for customers everywhere; just remember the pre-E3 price wars. Competition keeps companies on their toes."

Microsoft was nothing more than a retarded sideshow over the past five years in the console market.

There were no pre-E3 price wars other than some bored marketing folk at both companies playing press release games. If Microsoft had never come out with the Xbox the PS2 price drops would have look virtually identical over the past six years.

Price plays almost no role in console choice. Price moves consumer purchases backwards and forwards in time, not platforms. People have and always will buy consoles on exclusive IP.

Sony's price drops are almost entirely based on manufacturing cost reduction and running out of people who are willing to buy at a particular price point.

Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (1)

romrunning (963198) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166339)

I wish the games would now pick up - both in terms of quantity & quality. I'm starting to buy XBox Live games now due to the lack of enough good stuff available. There were what, 13 games at launch, and only around 20 now, almost 6 months later? What happened to all of the lead time the developers had?

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (1)

radish (98371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166811)

Actually there were 19 games at launch, and there are in the region of 30-35 out right now. And it's less than 5 months since launch (Nov 22), not 6.

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (1)

Ed State (961103) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166924)

Actually... there are 25 as of now. Not conting the arcade games (which I don't, although they are darned fun). Of those 26, IMHO there are at least 5 amazing games: Oblivion, COD2, Condemned, PGR3, GRAW... A couple of real stinkers (shame on you MLB 2K...!) and the rest are 'prettier' ports of mediocre games. That seems about the average breakdown for any system, doesn't it? Anyway, there are 10ish due out in the next month-or-so, 2 of which are supposedly truly amazing: "Chromehounds" and "99 Knights". They're also supposed to 'help' the Japanese market. And yes, I'm holding my breath on that one. Pffft!

As for the 'lead time', if I remember correctly, MS didn't get the DEVkits out there as well as they should've.

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (1)

Ed State (961103) | more than 8 years ago | (#15166997)

25! doh!

I had 26 then went and re-counted... how do you edit these darn posts!?

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15167457)

It takes a very long time and a lot of money to make an HD game, regardless of how good or bad the game ends up being. That's why you are seeing everyone trying to create the next blockbuster game, but everything costs $60 and you see less games at one time.

PS3 will have far more developers than Xbox 360, so the wait between games should be less of a hassle to bear, but I'm personally holding out for the Revolution and am sticking to current gen console games (and older), plus my Nintendo portables. The 360 looks like a bad purchase decision at this point (as it will probably be for the lifespan of the console, just as with Xbox), as will the PS3 be until at least 2 years after launch, just like PS2.

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15167748)

Most studios are currently winding down Xbox 360 projects in preparation for PlayStation 3 and Revolution, much like what happened to Dreamcast titles when the PlayStation 2 was set to arrive.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>