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Awesome Multimedia Technology Heads for KDE

CowboyNeal posted more than 8 years ago | from the lights-camera-action dept.

98

An anonymous reader writes "Linux Devices is reporting on a cool new multimedia technology that's slated to be incuded in KDE 4.0. The two key components are Phonon, a central hardware configuration database said to free multimedia applications from the need to configure hardware, and NMM (network-integrated multimedia middleware), a distributed multimedia architecture whereby multimedia content can be readily shared among networked devices and even 'handed over' from one device to another. Potential NMM applications include networked multimedia home entertainment systems, distributed and parallel media processing applications, distributed streaming servers and services, communication and control systems, and large-scale multimedia installations such as video walls, according to the article, which includes some interesting photos and diagrams. Phonon and NMM will be demonstrated at LinuxTag, May 3-6, in Wiesbaden, Germany."

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98 comments

Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1, Insightful)

sinewalker (686056) | more than 8 years ago | (#15218930)

Seriously, I'm hanging out for 4.0...

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219038)

What's wrong with ARTs?

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219069)

It tends to block non-aRts apps from using the sound device. Largely games and multimedia apps.

Hence the common: "killall arts && quake"

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (2, Insightful)

tetabiate (55848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219319)

There is a wrapper for non-KDE applications called artsdsp to reroute the audio device to artsd.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220931)

Or they could just get rid of things like ARTS and use hardware mixing. When was the last time you had a soundcard that could only play 1-4 sounds at once?

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

ThatComputerGuy (123712) | more than 8 years ago | (#15222719)

The majority of onboard sound these days.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 8 years ago | (#15223274)

A lot of brand new Sound Blaster cards, sitting on Best Buy shelves as I type this, have no hardware mixing. The popular consumer SB Live! 24-bit is the worst offender.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

paulatz (744216) | more than 8 years ago | (#15261048)

I know artsdsp but it definetly sucks.

e.g. have you ever tried artsdsp /us/bin/firefox

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

linvir (970218) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219343)

You could also try "artsdsp /usr/bin/quake", but you shouldn't need to, apps should have some level of intelligence by now, and they don't.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219415)

I wasn't aware of this. Okay.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219461)

Correction: I should have written "killall artsd &&...."
As the others said, the artsdsp wrapper sometimes works too.

Plus the original plan for arts was too big and unwieldy. The original dev dropped it like a year ago or so because it was getting into an unmaintainable state iirc.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219603)

This problem was fixed a half decade ago.. Use ALSA + dmix or freeBSD

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

pafrusurewa (524731) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220381)

Horrible latency and CPU usage.

Re:Sure beats ARTS, anyway (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219525)

Arts is not that bad.

In fact off the top of my head I can think of only two really MAJOR complaint about it.

  • Its internal timing sucks serious rotten eggz for any underlying sound system which does not interface directly to hardware which has its own timing. In other words NAS and ESS (in its network incarnation) suck really really bad. So will a arts based VOIP if someone finally writes it one day.
  • It does not have software mixer/volume control emulation for sound systems that do not support them. This is bloody trivial. Once again this seriously limits its usability in a NAS or ESS/net environment. It has also forced VOIP people like kphone to access the underlying hardware directly which seriously sucks for both stability and usability.

At least it's not VIIV.... (1, Insightful)

ShyGuy91284 (701108) | more than 8 years ago | (#15218933)

I saw that headline and thought it would be another Intel VIIV thing.....

Re:At least it's not VIIV.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15220021)

VIIV is Trusted Computing hardware and some signed "Trusted" codecs (Microsoft's).

This is a media framework designed to take advantage of VIIV and its TC hardware... "distributing" the media to other machines will involve remotely attesting that the hardware to which you are sending the data is "trusted" too (i.e. running hardware and code that is approved by the content companies).

Essentially, KDE is adopting a DRMed framework every bit as much as Gstreamer is. In fact, the whole fucking lot of them will be taking Free software and making it proprietary by signing it and using it on TC hardware.

THIRD POST!!! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15218953)

I FAILED IT!!!

"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (-1, Troll)

SonicBlue (921984) | more than 8 years ago | (#15218968)

KDE has a tendency to fill every users system with crap that nobody uses. Come on, "kdedu", "kwordquiz" and "kwin"? I think that every user should have the right to install those packages they want. But KDE depends on its own packages: so it seems hard to be without packages like "kmouth".

I just love dependencies! [sapht.com]

if ($name ~ k)
{
print "Yep, it's KDE!\n";
}

Stop trolling (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15218979)

Nobody is forcing you to install kedu or kwordquiz. You are absolutely free to install them, or to not install them.

As for kwin, yes, a window manager sure is bloat...

Jesus, will these stupid trolls never stop.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (4, Funny)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#15218992)

You want to run KDE without kwin? Brilliant! Next up: Running Linux without that pesky kernel.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

SonicBlue (921984) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219003)

kwin was one of the packages which I did not recognize. But if it's important, feel free to replace it with "kbattleship" in my post.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (4, Informative)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219032)

how does kbattleship bloat KDE?

KDE consists of kdelibs + kdebase. Everything else is optional.
In fact, if you want to run an individual KDE application without the desktop environment, then even kdebase is optional.

If you try to install all of the packages that the Debian KDE maintainer has decided are part of "KDE", then what a suprise, you get ALL of them.
The big heap of dependencies you listed are 90% individual KDE applications that you are completely free to install or not.
If that is difficult, then that is an issue with the packaging of KDE on your distribution, not an issue with KDE itself.

See if there is a "kde-base" meta package you can install - if you do that, you'll get the much smaller set of applications that comprise the core of KDE, and then you can cherry pick the other applications that suit your needs.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

PatrickThomson (712694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219445)

What he means by bloat is that small individual applications that ought only to depend on kdelibs, don't. They depend on "everything". This is, I maintain, because it's slightly easier than actually learning to code.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (3, Informative)

Chainsaw (2302) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219481)

Installing KBattleship in Gentoo, with no previous KDE packages installed, would give you three things: kdelibs, libkdegames and kbattleship. If the dependency system on your Linux distribution tries to pull in more, bug the package maintainers.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220190)

Installing KBattleship in Gentoo, with no previous KDE packages installed, would give you three things: kdelibs, libkdegames and kbattleship.

Well, assuming you had all of the other dependencies installed. It has to depend on some other stuff, like libarts (unless that's part of kdelibs), libc, libgcc, etc.

On Debian:

% apt-cache depends kbattleship
kbattleship
Depends: kdelibs4c2a
Depends: libart-2.0-2
Depends: libaudio2
Depends: libc6
Depends: libfontconfig1
Depends: libfreetype6
Depends: libgcc1
Depends: libice6
Depends: libidn11
Depends: libjpeg62
Depends: libkdegames1
Depends: libpng12-0
Depends: libqt3-mt
Depends: libsm6
Depends: libstdc++6
Depends: libx11-6
Depends: libxcursor1
Depends: libxext6
Depends: libxft2
Depends: libxi6
Depends: libxinerama1
Depends: libxrandr2
Depends: libxrender1
Depends: libxt6
Depends: zlib1g

That all seems pretty reasonable. Some of the X extension libraries aren't really needed for kbattleship, but I'm sure they get pulled in by stuff in libqt3 that does need them, and they're both small and almost certainly installed on any system with an X.org server anyway.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219484)

> What he means by bloat is that small individual applications that ought only to depend on kdelibs, don't. They depend on "everything".
No they don't.

Please give an example.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (4, Funny)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219498)

foo@bar:~$ sudo apt-get install kbattleship
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  kdelibs libkdegames everything

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219515)

hehe...Someone better poke the Debian KDE packagers with something sharpe then ;)

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#15221338)

Bless you, Jesus.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

cyclop (780354) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219430)

Something like Debian GNU/kFreeBSD [debian.org] is very similar to this!

(The concept is that you can use KDE with other window managers instead of kwin)

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

HaydnH (877214) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219452)

kWin is the window manager that runs on top of the KDE desktop - surely you should be able to remove it and use a different WM? I'm not to 'up' on KDE but you can definately use alternatives to metacity & sawfish in GNOME (e.g: I've run WindowMaker in GNOME).

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219010)

Wow, have you ever used KDE? Those are optional packages with the exception of kwin (the windowing manager).

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219012)

> I just love dependencies!

what? You mean I can't get a Window manager, a desktop environment, a web browser, an IDE, a bunch of games, an Office suite, a PIM package, a media player, network tools, useful utilities, administrative tools, and a bunch of educational packages by installing a single statically linked binary?

Oh noes!!!!!11!!

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219026)

Looks like you're installing a KDE meta-package that has been designed, by your distro, to pull in all of those unnecessary packages. KDE itself can run with just a few packages - kdebase, kdelibs, and a handful of others. If you want to blame someone for this, blame your distro's packagers :)

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

DavidHOzAu (925585) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219028)

KDE has a tendency to fill every users system with crap that nobody uses.
And E [get-e.org] or GNOME [gnome.org] doesn't?

You, my dear sir, are an idiot. Not everyone shares the same interests, and it is practically impossible to find anyone who uses every single piece of software provided by a desktop environment.

What would nice however if this new technology used unix-style seperation of tasks, so that every window manager could use it, i.e. programs with commandlines like x_video_stream video.mpeg --window 12385 --default-x-server --size 320,240 --deinterlace, and stream_from_network_to_pipe nfsfile pipetouse.

This, more than anything else, would make more people use them because their usage can be CUSTOMIZED. Hiding stuff in an API is a mistake.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1, Troll)

msuarezalvarez (667058) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219097)

Hiding stuff in an API is a mistake.

You are calling /usr/include a mistake?

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0, Flamebait)

SonicBlue (921984) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219141)

Speaking of idiots, I love it how you assume that I'm using Gnome as soon as I say that don't prefer using KDE.

No, I do not use Gnome.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219189)

Speaking of idiots, I love it how you assume that I'm using Gnome as soon as I say that don't prefer using KDE.
He assumed no such thing - he simply posted that both GNOME and E (which, for some reason, you seem to have overlooked - why didn't you claim that he assumed you used E, as well?) also include lots of stuff. That's it. The worst you could accuse him of is saying "Others do it, so it's OK if KDE does it". Calling him an "idiot" is utterly and completely uncalled for and only makes you look like a sore loser.

Looks to me like you made an embarrassingly ill-informed and troll-ish post, got rightly flamed for it, and are now trying to say "Look everyone - one of my detractors made a foolish post, too [which he didn't] - go rag on him, instead!". I'm hoping others will pick up on this and that it will backfire on you.

Either learn to admit your mistakes when people call you on them instead of trying to shift the negative focus back onto them, or stop posting. Carrying on in this childish manner can only end badly for you.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0, Flamebait)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219211)

Then you're either a) not using Linux or b) not even the target for a desktop in the same class as KDE (which gnome isn't, but it pretends it is) and thus shouldn't really be bothered by whether or not KDE is bloated (it's not), right? Troll less, enjoy your life more. Everyone will be happier for it.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0, Troll)

SonicBlue (921984) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219290)

Yep, if I don't use either KDE or Gnome I'm totally against running Linux on workstations. You're so correct. (Note: Irony)

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

niskel (805204) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220209)

I am Canadian and even I know this isn't ironic. This my friend is called S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220291)

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

And I never said you weren't interested in running Linux on workstations. I said you aren't using Linux or a desktop in the class of KDE. KDE and gnome (if you count it, which I wouldn't) are the only desktop systems in KDE's class on Linux. There are many fine window managers on Linux that don't have similar feature sets to KDE. I particularly like Fluxbox and Enlightenment has a lot of "pow" effects, but they're not in the same class as KDE.

If you took that as a measure of quality, that's your mistake. It's a matter of classification, based on feature set, and nothing else. On Linux the only options you've got for full integrated desktop environments are KDE and gnome, but only if you hate yourself.

Feel free to give me another round of troll or flamebait, gnome users. My karma can take it and it gives me a warm feeling inside knowing that there are still people out there suffering through using it.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

linvir (970218) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219358)

Speaking of idiots
Why didn't you shut up once it was clear how wrong you were about the original point?

So a lot of KDE compatible software is a bad thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219074)

I fail to see how a lot of software that is kde compatible is a bad thing. Maybe you don't want to play battleships. Others like it, though, and are happy that the interface to this amazing mindgame is compatible to the interface of their editor, spreadsheet or terminal program. Much software is a benefit. If you don't like it, don't install it.

Now even more bloated, if you want it to be.. (2, Informative)

Ajehals (947354) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219088)

If you don't like it don't install it, if your using Linux select the packages you want not the 'KDE' meta package with "all the official packages" takes a little longer but works just as well, hell if your really worried put together a metapackage of your own with just the bits you want, and none of those you don't. Yeah you will hit some issues with dependencies but not all that many, and you can get rid of a huge amount of bumf if you don't want it, I'm happily using a lightweight KDE with components of my own choosing, but if I install KDE on someone else's PC they tend to get the whole lot, and are generally happy.

Oh and for people who are not worried about bloat and people new to Linux its all "nice features" trying to make KDE attractive to people is not a bad thing, especially when you want to have all the latest wizz bang stuff.

After all Linux gives you choice, its not like you can get rid of all the boat in Windows or even the gnome metapackage...

Just my view

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219091)

Wow, a metapackage dependacy PROVES that KDE is bloated! Perhaps you should learn about "dpkg-query".

http://packages.debian.org/stable/kde/kde-core [debian.org]

"This metapackage includes the core official modules released with KDE. This includes just the basic desktop (browser, file manager, text editor, control center, panel, etc.) and important libraries and data, in addition to the aRts soundserver."

If that's still too large for you:

http://packages.debian.org/stable/kde/kdebase [debian.org]

"This package depends on the minimum number of packages to provide a simple yet fully functional KDE desktop."

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (2, Insightful)

mu22le (766735) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219511)

As a premise: I installed only kdebase (the bare minimum) on my system (just to give it a try)...

"This metapackage includes the core official modules released with KDE. This includes just the basic desktop (browser, file manager, text editor, control center, panel, etc.) and important libraries and data, in addition to the aRts soundserver."

now excuse me if I call a package that absolutely needs
  - A browser
  - A control center
  - A system panel
  - A file manager
  - A text editor ...

a bit bloated.

In my perfect world kde would be split up in separate packages so that I can have the window manager and the taskbar, configure them _without_ the control panel, have mozilla as a browser if I wish, and use no file manager at all (at the cost of not having icons on my desktop, of course).

I will also rejoice the day someone cleans the application dependencies (and, yes, I know this is not strictly a task for the kde team) so that any k* app stops depending on 40 different (k)libraries (no you will never make me believe a fraking xterm clone needs all of them).

Anyway this is why _I_ do not use kde, this does not mean it is crap or that _you_ can't use it.

I use E17 instead, the enlightenment package contains just the bare minimum (a window manager + a few widgets) and I can install the rest (the various epplets, epplications and so on) only if I want to.
 

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219531)

The bare minimum I can install is Konqueror and some libs for kdebase.

No control center, no file manager, no text editor.

I'm sure I could remove Konqueror with 'rpm -e --nodeps konqueror' and it would work fine. But I am too lazy to try.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

linvir (970218) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219677)

What are you, kidding? That reads like a list of minimum requirements for a basic desktop environment! It's heartening to see somebody acknowledge that their needs are their needs, however.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219883)

Dude what on earth are you on about.

The _meta_ package is _supposed_ to include the most commonly used apps. You don't have to install it - it's just there to make it easy for you _if_ you want to install the commonly used kde apps.

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (1)

jopsen (885607) | more than 8 years ago | (#15227630)

yes, kde apps requires many packages... but We all like when amaroK, downloads a wikipedia article about the band we are playing... and we can't do that without konqueror... The keywords is reuse and intergration... which is why kde apps depends on many different packages...

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219114)

Wow. Maybe you should pull the KCock out of your KAss?

Re:"KDE 4.0: Now even more bloated!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219507)

God you're dumb. There's almost no point in talking to you.

Windows is incredibly bloated because of the Photoshop and Quicken you're forced to use.
Mac OS is incredibly bloated because of the Final Cut Pro and Aperture you're forced to use.
Computing is incredibly bloated because of the Windows, Linux, and OS/2 you're forced to install.
Ford cars are incredibly bloated because of the all the groceries you're forced to buy and carry in them.

You're so confused, you probably think you're incredibly bloated because of the sunglasses, sunscreen, and wristwatch you're "forced" to wear.

It's just a bunch of device drivers (-1, Troll)

sakusha (441986) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219007)

OK, I can see the need to make sense out of the abysmal state of Linux video device drivers. But this is hardly a multimedia platform. Sure you can do cool stuff with multimedia once you've got your hardware configuration sorted out, but the demos look like mere stunts. Do I really need to stretch a picture across two laptops, one Linux and one Windows? I could just email the Wintel laptop half the picture. Show me something PRACTICAL and USEFUL.

4.0 goodness (2, Insightful)

Lucractius (649116) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219041)

cant wait to get the little widgets on my desktop, and all the multimedia, and its gonna be so much better to look at than vistas Aeroglass crap, and all the games... oh...

****

guess its still not THAT great afterall... come on someone, put up a hundred grand prize for the first "big name title" (some criteria to exclude stuff already on linux, and crap like madden from being eligable) to provide a native Linux version. or something... pretty KDE is nice and everything but... i miss my games :(

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219176)

I'll be waiting for 4.1... the version without bugs.

Re:4.0 goodness (3, Insightful)

Lucractius (649116) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219238)

ill be waiting for the 4.0 RC 1 so i can help get rid of the bugs :)

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219223)

Quake 3, Doom 3, Quake 4, Unreal Tournament...

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

Lucractius (649116) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219253)

Q3 - now open source, doesnt matter if they care cause we can make our own.
D3 - nice to see, but its one of the 2 companies that do make linux versions, but theyre exempt from this cause well... theres 2 of them... and iD do it for Philosophical reasons (carmaks big on open source as his continuing trend to open up the engines shows)
Q4 - see above
UT*** - nice but so what... the reason is cause its developed primarily to be licenced and theyre nice enough not to stop people buying it to develop 3d software packages on linux. They make the engine work on linux cause its good planing, and an extra reason to buy their engine. The majority of games built with the Unreal engine DO NOT see linux versions. So its a moot point claiming that Epic releasing a linux version is "so good of them" since realy the hard work is done for them by Unreal Technologies making the engine compatible to begin with.

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 8 years ago | (#15221232)

I don't fully follow what you are trying to say about UT. How is Epic any different than id. See how Q3, and Doom 3 were made for Linux. That Quake 4 runs on it was not id's doing. Sure, one could say that id made the Doom 3 engine run on Linux, but it was Raven that made Quake 4. Raven has made several games that couldn't be run on Linux even though the id engine they were based off of could (most notably the Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy games, which were based off the Quake 3 engine). Also, Doom 3 was "developed primarily to be licenced." There's not much different from id and Epic in that regard, so who cares that id does it for philosophical reasons? I personally couldn't care less that id made Doom 3 run on Linux for philosophical reasons and Epic did it for monetary reasons. I'd still buy both games and run them on Linux. The companies purpose behind it is irrelevant because they're both good games. Personally I like Unreal slightly more, but that's only because I know how to map with UnrealEd.

I would love to see more games on Linux as well. I haven't spent a whole lot of time on it but I've never been able to get Wine or Cedega to work all that well for me. I keep Windows around solely for that reason. I like to map and Hammer and UnrealEd are only available on Windows.

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

StarWreck (695075) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219385)

Well, there's always Doom 3 for Linux. You can download it for free but you have to buy the Windows version to get the map, textures, models, music, sound effects, etc... files.

And a few people might consider "America's Army" to be a good native Linux game too.

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

AugstWest (79042) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220446)

Unfortunately, America's Army for Linux and OSX are going away [linuxgames.com] .

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

Quinn (4474) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220112)

Neverwinter Nights? That alone is a great representation of the RPG genre, and some of the MMORPG market with its available persistent worlds.

Companies can't justify a release for every platform, and many games are already segmented heavily along the various consoles and their iterations.

If you want to play the most popular games, you either (a) have the most popular platform (for the latest games) or (b) have an emulator -- and Linux has working emulators for many (if not most) popular platforms.

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

AugstWest (79042) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220405)

Neverwinter Nights is 4 years old now. Considering the speed of the gaming cycle, that's practically ancient. I'm not knocking it as a game, I think it's great, but I'd love to have something new to play.I played NWN until I was sick of it about 3 years ago.

Mod parent off topic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15221227)

Wtf? The post mentioned technologies that have nothing to do with GUI widgets but you're talking about Aero Glass? The post mentioned stuff that will make our lives easier but you're talking about missing a few games?

Re:4.0 goodness (1)

infosec_spaz (968690) | more than 8 years ago | (#15223955)

I know you said "Natively", but there is Cedega...www.transgaming.com. I can not live without my Guild Wars, and it works very nicely on SuSE 10 running Cedega.

Awesome Multimedia Technology? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219042)

I know this new multimedia technology is awesome, but I need to know, is it mad crazy, too? The submitter forgot to say.

Re:Awesome Multimedia Technology? (4, Funny)

baadger (764884) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219434)

only if you install libmad and libcrazy

Re:Awesome Multimedia Technology? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219860)

So it comes with libawesome installed by default?

Re:Awesome Multimedia Technology? (1)

grimJester (890090) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220497)

My understanding is that it's 'krazy kewl'.

DRM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219075)

Is this a new attempt at including Digital Restrictions Management [gnu.org] in Linux? I've read posts on here that have discussed the DRM inclusions in GNOME's GStreamer. Could KDE be next? Real [slashdot.org] , Fluendo [fluendo.com] , and other copyright trolls are a threat to watch out for, similar to the looming threat of binary kernel modules [iu.edu] . We as Linux users must be on guard against the copyright mafia's incessant attempts to neuter our computers.

Re:DRM? (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219172)

I'm not overly worried about it. Its open source- if it gets DRM added, it will be almost immediately forked and removed. Hell if noone else does it, I would.

Re:DRM? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219539)

Two words: Trusted Computing [cam.ac.uk] . Big fans of this include all the major tech companies like Microsoft, IBM, Intel, AMD... second-tier ones like Sun, Apple (have you bought a new Apple Intel Mac? Congratulations -- Apple included this Big Brother chip in your machine. [masternewmedia.org] And didn't tell you)

Essentially, it boils down to this: the PC hardware itself checks whether you are running the right binaries, and if not, the other end (be it across the internet or a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive or anything else with a TC chip included) won't trust you and you don't get the content. Basically, you can't fork the code because it won't work anymore, as you don't have the key to sign the binary and make the hardware trust it.

It also, just as a bonus, lets companies like Fluendo take Free software, make deals with content owners to only work with *their* signed binaries of Gstreamer. In other words, taking Free software and making it proprietary. It's the same thing that Sun is doing with its "open source" DRM... that relies on TC hardware to ensure that you haven't just recompiled their "open source" to remove the restrictions and controls. Naturally, Fluendo and Sun are buddies, and Fluendo has signed up to Sun's version of "open source". Amusingly, Christian Schaller (Fluendo) used to be a big critic of people abusing Free software by calling it "open source" and wrote articles imploring others not to use it. But then he started to get corporate money... and now he's quite happy to steal other people's code to make his DRM framework.

Re:DRM? (0, Offtopic)

vurian (645456) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219345)

No, not all. You got the wrong end of the clue stick here.

Re:DRM? (1)

rmsmith (930507) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219691)

FYI, GStreamer isn't a GNOME project. It's an independant multimedia framework which doesn't depend on GNOME in any way, shape or form.

Reversal of Fortune (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219523)

Those that do not understand {Directshow, UPnP} are doomed to reinvent them.. Poorly.

Re:Reversal of Fortune (2, Insightful)

xerxesdaphat (767728) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220079)

UPnP was invented poorly...

Re:Reversal of Fortune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15220229)

And DirectShow isn't all that hot either. VLC and mplayer are generally better than any app that uses DShow. Faster seek times and more reliable a/v sync for examples.

Re:Reversal of Fortune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15220285)

Replace Directshow and UPnP with Quicktime and Appletalk and your post will make sense.

Isn't this really plumbing? (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219858)

It all sounds really neat, but IMHO it should be a middleware layer, or something like that. It should lie *under* KDE, not be part of KDE. For that matter, it should optionally like under GNOME, or under my current non-KDE, non-GNOME icewm or xfce desktops.

The linkage to KDE for this software layer seems inappropriate to me.

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (3, Informative)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219874)

Um, that's _exactly_ what is happening. NMM is a middleware layer, under KDE, for gnome, and non-kde-or-gnome apps.
Phonon is just the c++ wrapper to make it easy for kde apps to use the middleware layer.

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (4, Informative)

TravisWatkins (746905) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219899)

Bad article (or summary). Phonon is an API a KDE app will use to do sound/video. Phonon is really just an abstraction layer. You can have an arts backend, alsa backend, gstreamer backend, even a windows backend. It's only purpose is to make audio/video easier for KDE developers and make it easy to port the whole thing to another system. It's kdelibs material, sure. But I can't see it being used by a Gnome app, they already have gstreamer (which can do arts, esd, alsa, oss, windows, etc too).

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220210)

I would wish that with the current "desktop standards" push now going on, that standardizing middleware layers like this would be a key item. My other fear is that non-KDE, non-GNOME desktops are getting completely ignored.

These huge monolithic desktops are an annoying departure from The Unix Way. What makes it more annoying is that it doesn't need to be as bad as it is. These middleware layers could be separated, standardized, and made generally available.

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (1)

jusdisgi (617863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15221570)

These huge monolithic desktops are an annoying departure from The Unix Way. What makes it more annoying is that it doesn't need to be as bad as it is. These middleware layers could be separated, standardized, and made generally available.

Well, we've already got Gnome/KDE/XFCE (each with several WM choices) on top of GTK+/QT on top of X on top of kernel interfaces. That's enough of an onion for me. Not to mention that you can happily go off and run any number of other window managers, minus the desktop environment (and you can even pick certain pieces of the desktop to keep). But I'm interested to know where you would put this multimedia API anyway. In X? In some new, fourth layer between X and the desktop? And how are you going to write this API, and what style guidelines will it use? Perhaps it has escaped you that Gnome is written almost entirely in C while KDE is in C++? I expect they also have rather different coding conventions. Not insurmountable, perhaps, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for those teams to write a whole new layer of the stack simply to hold API's like this. And I'll bet the X guys would laugh you right off your chair if you suggested they put this sort of thing there.

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15222897)

Again, this is _exactly_ what is happening.
The sound system is abstracted out and can be used by kde/gnome/anything. The message system (dbus) is being standardised on. Kde, gnome, and other apps will use dbus.

The only middleware part that I would want standardised on now that isn't being standardised on at the moment would be kioslaves.

KDE is not departing away from The Unix Way at all. Please give an example of what middleware layers need to be separated etc.

Re:Isn't this really plumbing? (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 8 years ago | (#15223436)

These huge monolithic desktops are an annoying departure from The Unix Way.

I don't think that's true at all. The "Unix Way" is to have lots of small scripts, apps, etc that all do one thing, do it well, and are constructed so as to be able to work together in order to perform more complex tasks. Your criticism of Gnome and KDE would be true if they were single, monolithic apps, but they're not. They're both composed of lots of little apps, libraries and scripts, all of which are (more or less) single-responsibility, all of which are used together to perform a more complex task - in this case, operating as a desktop environment.

If Gnome and KDE are a departure from the "unix way", then so is the OS itself.

Don't we already have plumbing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15224533)

Phonon is an API a KDE app will use to do sound/video. Phonon is really just an abstraction layer. You can have an arts backend, alsa backend, gstreamer backend, even a windows backend.

So Phonon is an abstraction layer ... that you can use on top of the existing (excellent) abstraction layer that is GStreamer? Does it add anything, or are they just NIH people?

I can't see it being used by a Gnome app, they already have gstreamer (which can do arts, esd, alsa, oss, windows, etc too).

Right ... so they're making/adding Phonon, why, exactly?

The webpage says: "If you need multimedia functionality in your program, Phonon is for you. Use it from simple audio playback to full blown video playback with audio and video effects. Use it to record an audio signal or capture from a webcam. Use it to concentrate on your program and not on getting the mediaframework to work for you."

So, as a developer, why would I want to use this instead of GStreamer? GStreamer is here, working, has a lot more functionality than Phonon, and has bindings to all my favorite HLLs. What exactly does Phonon offer?

Pretty cool (1)

MiKM (752717) | more than 8 years ago | (#15219881)

KDE 4 may seriously cause me to switch from Gnome.

What an coincidence... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15219893)

...because I would give head for awesome multimedia technology for KDE!

NMM? What about UPnP? (2, Interesting)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220077)

I haven't been able to figure out yet what major advantages NMM has (if any) over UPnP.

Whether it does or not, UPnP is a standard that is beginning to be widely supported by new PC software and embedded hardware devices, while NMM is going to be stillborn unless it can achieve the market penetration that UPnP has.

Who cares about network-oriented decentralized multimedia when nothing on the network except your PC supports it?

The KDE developers would be much better off focusing on improving UPnP support so that KDE can "play nice" with other devices/software coming on the market, and THEN start researching replacements for UPnP.

Because UPnP isn't about multimedia... (3, Informative)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220670)

It's about networking and device discovery. While you need UPnP to find everything, it doesn't mesh the media playback, etc. seamlessly. NMM is more analogous to DirectPlay and probably HAS a backend for UPnP or can easily enough. If you'd have read up on what NMM was, you'd know this, though...

/s/DirectPlay/DirectShow... (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220690)

Shouldn't post this early in the morning without my IV bottle of coffee...

Re:Because UPnP isn't about multimedia... (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#15223119)

UPnP isn't about multimedia?

I suggest you do a google search for djmount or Windows Media Connect.

UPnP may not be solely for multimedia, but it does contain a multimedia component called UPnP AV.

Not the same thing... (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15229940)

UPnP AV is a wireline protocol (Which has A/V components to it...) for device discovery and "use", not an API.

NMM is basically an API and is at a much higher level. To compare what we're talking about here you should really compare DirectShow, etc. with NMM, not UPnP.

UPnP is analogous to URB's, etc. within the USB spec. You typically do not see people coding for URB's and talking to the HID layer, etc. for USB devices- unless they're making device drivers or higher-level programmer API's for the devices.

I can live without this addition (1)

Jaqui (905797) | more than 8 years ago | (#15220138)

Since multimedia is very low on my list of things to do with my computer, it's not something that will endear KDE to me.

My GUI of choice is actually the Enlightenment Window Manager rather than any of the desktops, even then, I spend more time in a cli only environment than in an X session.

Re:I can live without this addition (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15221459)

Do you also enjoy rubbing two sticks together to start a fire?

Seriously, haven't you ever heard of an Eterm?

alt.arts.die.die.die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15220147)

'nuff said.

"Awesome Multimedia Te...." (1)

Zepalesque (468881) | more than 8 years ago | (#15225555)

Oh good, a digg style headline on Slashdot.
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