Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

How IBM Out-foxed Intel With The Xbox 360

Hemos posted more than 8 years ago | from the beat-them-to-the-punch dept.

327

xcaverx writes "Learning from failure is a hallmark of the technology business. Nick Baker, a 37-year-old system architect at Microsoft, knows that well. A British transplant at the software giant's Silicon Valley campus, he went from failed project to failed project in his career. He worked on such dogs as Apple Computer's defunct video card business, 3DO's failed game consoles, a chip startup that screwed up a deal with Nintendo, the never successful WebTV and Microsoft's canceled Ultimate TV satellite TV recorder. But Baker finally has a hot seller with the Xbox 360, Microsoft's video game console launched worldwide last holiday season."

cancel ×

327 comments

Xbox? (-1, Flamebait)

metamatic (202216) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245939)

Did he also work on the failed Xbox?

Seems curious to omit it.

Re:Xbox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15245968)

only Linux monkeys would call the original XBox a failure.

Re:Xbox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246008)

Except for those monkeys who run Linux on their XBox ;-)

Re:Xbox? (4, Insightful)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246017)

Only people who count market share instead of dollars when judging success would call the Xbox anything but a failure.

Dollars in the short term... (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246134)

...is not all that matters. Come on, look at Microsoft, you should understand this by now. Market share **is** what matters. They established an amazing market share on their first round product, considering the market has been tied up by Nintendo and Sony for years and we hadn't seen anyone make a successful crack into it. They made a nice hole for the XBOX 360 to ease into, and they did it a good year+ before Nintendo or Sony will be able to make a response.

By the way I don't own and never have owned a console. I'm not a fanboy. Just taking an objective look at it from the outside. Microsoft couldn't care less about losing a few million/tens of million/even hundred million on the first run of XBOX. They were cracking a market and setting up for the second and third generation. And they did well.

Re:Dollars in the short term... (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246191)

Microsoft lost over a billion dollars on the XBOX....and they're losing money even faster on the 360. They sell those consoles for WAY less than they cost to produce, hoping to make money back on games. The thing is, it doesnt usually happen that way.

No "time frame" is going to help that.

Re:Dollars in the short term... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246307)

Microsoft lost over a billion dollars on the XBOX....and they're losing money even faster on the 360. They sell those consoles for WAY less than they cost to produce, hoping to make money back on games.

Says who, exactly? PLZ CITE SOURCES KTHXBYE

If it didn't make sense to sell them at a loss... (4, Informative)

everphilski (877346) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246414)

... they would shut down the factories and stop manufacturing them. Fact is they have a game plan, fact is they are still flying off the shelves, fact is they are gaining market share... that's all that matters. People with consoles buy games. The more colsoles you have out there the more games you potentially sell. You have to spend money to make money.

this [businessweek.com] article states Microsoft expects to make money in 2007. Also note that all figures on how much microsoft is "actually losing" is speculation by industry analysts. No one actually knows precisely how much Microsoft is paying for what component.

If you want to crack a market you have to pull out the checkbook and take a hit. You can't go in timid. Microsoft has shown that and look at the market share they have gained. They have a good percentage of gamers hooked, now on the third generation consoles they don't have to take as big a hit on the console price.

Re:Dollars in the short term... (4, Informative)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246253)

"Microsoft couldn't care less about losing a few million/tens of million/even hundred million on the first run of XBOX."

The XBox has lost upwards of $4 billion [joystiq.com] . I think the XBox either qualifies as a failure or a disaster. If the 360 doesn't turn a profit in a couple years I think they are going to throw the towel in.

Re:Dollars in the short term... (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246267)

I rest my case. :)

Thanks for the link.

Re:Dollars in the short term... (1)

KeiichiMorisato (945464) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246441)

They made a nice hole for the XBOX 360 to ease into, and they did it a good year+ before Nintendo or Sony will be able to make a response

The "early entry" hasn't always proved to be an advantage. Take a look at the history of Sega. First the Sega Genesis, came out before the SNES, but the SNES was still able to take over the majority of the market. Then the suprise launch of the Sega Saturn to trump Sony and Nintendo, but it failed to dominate. Then the Dreamcast. A very good gaming machine that's at least on par if not better than PS2, but alas, it was not meant to be.....:(

Re:Xbox? (5, Insightful)

Karma Farmer (595141) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246019)

only Linux monkeys would call the original XBox a failure.

I agree, if by "Linux monkeys" you mean "accountants and businessmen."

You must know some stupid businessmen (0, Troll)

FatSean (18753) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246186)

Or, you have the recent American Illness of demanding immediate returns with no thoughts toward long-term performance. I call it Stockholder Syndrome.

Wait till the XBox 360 comes out and see what happens. I may be wrong, but I think they will turn a profit and get even more marketshare. Then the third iteration will put them even with Sony and Nintendo.

Disclaimer: I own a Sega Dreamcast and a Nintendo GameCube.

Re:You must know some stupid businessmen (1)

gormanly (134067) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246237)

I own a Sega Dreamcast and a Nintendo GameCube.

Uh, dude, thanks for predicting that the 360 will do well - I now know that I should wait and choose the PS3 or the Wii for this round.

Re:You must know some stupid businessmen (1)

Karma Farmer (595141) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246254)

Wait till the XBox 360 comes out and see what happens.

Should I read that to mean wait until Microsoft starts selling them, or wait until people start buying them?

Because unfortunately for Microsoft, reading one of those ways makes sense.

Re:You must know some stupid businessmen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246257)

Wait till the XBox 360 comes out and see what happens.

Say what?

Re:Xbox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246223)

Not this linux monkey! www.xbox-linux.org [xbox-linux.org] !

Re:Xbox? (2, Interesting)

DCstewieG (824956) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246230)

Actually, I thought Linux monkeys loved the Xbox! Cheap server, media PC, etc...

Outfoxed? (-1, Offtopic)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245950)

IBM didn't outfox intel - by courting Microsoft, the lost Apple.

Apple may not count for a huge amount in sales, but the amount of hype Apple fan's created for PPC is worth more money then IBM has ;-)

Re:Outfoxed? (3, Informative)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246088)

I realize you were joking, but just to give this numbers:

Apple's entire value of "Goodwill" as of Sept '05 (last number I could easily find and yes they actually have to value these things though it certainly isn't easy to come to a precise number): 69,000,000

IBM's market cap: 127,630,000,000

IBM's Cash And Cash Equivalents (as of Dec '05) 12,568,000,000

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246154)

I was indeed joking - just trying to live up to the standards set by the people my handle embodies.

Thanks for the figures tho - they really are informative.

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246181)

Macintosh quarterly unit sales: 8 million
Xbox entire lifecycle unit sales: 22 million (2.4 million/quarter average)

Which of those two would you rather have as a customer?

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

gormanly (134067) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246300)

Uh, the Xbox came out in Nov 2001, and the 22 million figure is the latest official one, but it's up to the end of FY 2005. That's not 2.4 million a quarter.

Re:Outfoxed? (4, Informative)

Gannoc (210256) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246330)

Apple's entire value of "Goodwill" as of Sept '05 (last number I could easily find and yes they actually have to value these things though it certainly isn't easy to come to a precise number): 69,000,000

Your description of Goodwill is incorrect.

Goodwill is a very specific number used to define an intangable asset that was aquired.

So, lets say I buy a company for 5 million dollars. On the books, the company has materials and property worth 1.5 million dollars.

For accounting, I say that I spent 5 million dollars on 1.5 million of assets, and 3.5 million of "Goodwill" Every year (at least) I evaluate the 3.5 million dollars worth of Goodwill and make sure it is worth as much as I think it is.

The accountants don't get together and say: "People really, really like us. Lets call it 69 million dollars worth of "like"!"

Re:Outfoxed? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246155)

Excuse me? Since when would hype generated from the use of PowerPC chips in Apple's DESKTOP and LAPTOP computers boost the market for Power processors for sale in SERVERS and SUPERCOMPUTERS? I mean, I guess seeing the same processors that a company or research institute bought in its top-of-the-line blade cabinets and Blue Gene supercomputers in a Mac might send girly shivers of stylish delight down any CEO's spine... but seriously, get real. The Power sells well in high-power applications because its a high-power processor, not because Apple used to put it in a pretty little white case.

Re:Outfoxed? (3, Informative)

jusdisgi (617863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246161)

Apple may not count for a huge amount in sales, but the amount of hype Apple fan's created for PPC is worth more money then IBM has ;-)

Delusional. "Hype" for one product that accounts for maybe 10% of IBM's business is worth more than the net worth of the company? I'll bet IBM's calculation here is that a)the "hype" generated by Mac PPC sales was worth little to nothing, given that the sales they care about are to large corporate buyers; b)console sales will generate hype themselves which will likely be similarly (read: not very) powerful; c)the console market requires chip volumes a couple of orders of magnitude higher than Apple; d)the new partnering fits better with future plans for Cell, which mostly involve consumer-electronics embedding.

Hype is not better than money. Companies that fail to recognize this don't last. Your nick and post are well-coordinated.

Re:Outfoxed? (4, Funny)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246196)

Your nick and post are well-coordinated.

Thanks :-)

(I am single handedly trying to save /. with this handle)

Re:Outfoxed? (-1, Flamebait)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246262)

Any excuse for being an idiot, eh Whiny? Do us a favor and die. We won't miss one more Mac fag.

Re:Outfoxed? (-1, Troll)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246291)

god dammit that was supposed to be "Mac faN".

Ah well, I was headed for the -1 bin anyway...

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246399)

god dammit that was supposed to be "Mac faN".

Frankly, that fact that you did it unintentionally (I mean, there's two letters between N & G keys on a qwerty keyboard) reveals even more about your anti-mac, homophobic agenda.

Re:Outfoxed? (1, Offtopic)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246325)

Any excuse for being an idiot, eh Whiny? Do us a favor and die. We won't miss one more Mac fag.

1) You mispelt my name.

2) There is a similar percantage of homosexuals across all aspects of society, including computer users - *blows gulogulo a kiss*.

3) Try to stay on topic & stop being such a little troll.

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246207)

b)console sales will generate hype themselves which will likely be similarly (read: not very) powerful; c)the console market requires chip volumes a couple of orders of magnitude higher than Apple;

That's just plain wrong. The original Xbox never achieved quarterly sales greater than 25% of Apple's quarterly sales by unit volume... And Apple put *two* of IBM's chips in a lot of those machines.

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

jusdisgi (617863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246315)

That's just plain wrong. The original Xbox never achieved quarterly sales greater than 25% of Apple's quarterly sales by unit volume... And Apple put *two* of IBM's chips in a lot of those machines.

Time to work on reading comprehension. I said: the console market requires chip volumes a couple of orders of magnitude higher than Apple. Console market != XBox market. Both the XBox 360 and the PS3 [will] run on IBM chips.

And about Apple putting 2 IBM chips in each box...don't the XBox and PS3 each ship with more than 2 IBM chips? Isn't it 3 per XB360 and like 8 for the PS3? You've lost it if you don't think this will be a net increase in chip sales for IBM.

Oh, and while I'm at it, aren't the bulk of Apple's quarterly unit-volume sales ipods?

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

nolife (233813) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246289)

Wow, 10%, not quite.

According to this link [nytimes.com] , losing Apple will account for 2% of IBM's chip sales and IBM's overall chip sales make up only 2-3% of their overall sales revenue company wide. Losing any business is bad but looking big picture, this specific instance had very little impact on IBM.

Re:Outfoxed? (1)

jusdisgi (617863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246390)

Thanks for looking that up. I had a feeling that it would be dramatically less than the 10% I used, but seeing as how I was just guessing I figured I'd err on the high side. I was particularly surprised that Apple's share of the chip sales was so low...but I guess they are probably selling a lot of chips that aren't PPC as well. Anybody have any idea what percentage of their chip sales they expect the XBox 360 and PS3 to account for?

Oh, and a small note; from that link you gave they are saying Apple bought less than 2% of the chips produced at IBM's largest (but not only) chip fab. So, presumably significantly less than 2% of the total, although we don't know how many fabs they have...

Re:Outfoxed? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246188)

I understand that one shouldnt feed the trolls.

However - this fucking macfanaticism is getting even worse than the linux-fanboying around these parts. Now here's a question for you:
Apple sells around 1 million computers a quarter*.
Xbox360 has so far been selling almost 2 million units per quarter.
Add in whatever the PS3 will sell.
Add in whatever amount of Cell chips IBM will be able to sell on its own.
Now - which is more profitable, selling, oh, lets say 5 million cpus/quarter to various companies or 1 million to one single company? Make a wild guess!

ps. Nobody but stupid mac fanboys never believed a word that Steve Jobs was saying about the PPC. Nobody. Sorry.

*) http://news.com.com/Apple+earnings+continue+to+hum +along/2100-1045_3-5669710.html [com.com]

well... (5, Funny)

Burlap (615181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245962)

successful X360 launch may be stretching it a bit neh?

Re:well... (4, Insightful)

johnfink (810028) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246011)

Generally, selling as much as you supply at asking price is considered a success.

Re:well... (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246049)

No.. it might be success for the product, but it's a pricing failure. How much unrealized revinue did they miss out on because the price was too low?

Re:well... (1)

Burlap (615181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246077)

and how much will they lose out on in the future when they realize they have nowhere to drop to while other platforms anounce price drops?

Re:well... (5, Insightful)

Burlap (615181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246057)

it helps when you are the only show in town. The jury is still out as to how far their sales will fall when the PS3 hits the shelves.

MS is in dire need of a Halo for the 360 to sell on, sure the games they have out now look 'ok' but there isn't anything out there that makes me say "WOW!"

Re:well... (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246089)

Generally, selling as much as you supply at asking price is considered a success. ...depending on how much you supply. And even then, they never exactly flew off the shelves in Japan; the 360 has even sold less than the original xbox during the same timeframe.

Re:well... (1)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246110)

Except when they artificially lower supply to enable them to *hype* sold-out.

They made resellers sign contracts that they would sell out all stock each day it was delivered.

Re:well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246091)

They are selling the boxes as fast as they can manufacture them. It might be up in the air how xbox360 competes with Sony PS3 over the next few years... but the Xbox 360 launch is definitly a success.

Re:well... (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246133)

Well then they need to come where I am. CompUSA, Circuit City, and Best Buy have stacks of unsold units. Not empty boxes in a display for a raincheck, unsold units.

Re:well... (1)

fimbulvetr (598306) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246288)

Which explains all the successful sales of X360 on ebay for well over the standard retail price. Consistently selling something for a price higher than what best buy charges sure seems to be indicative of demand. Demand, IIRC, is inextricably linked to the success of a product of this type.

Might be able to make yourself a profit. I'd sure be selling them if they had any in my town.

Re:well... (1)

databyss (586137) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246421)

Except there are no XBox 360's selling on e-bay for more than what you would have to pay for the system in the store.

None with any bids that is.

They were selling like that before there was a supply. Now that there's a supply, there's no demand.

um... (3, Insightful)

everphilski (877346) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246174)

... getting to market a year+ before your competition, selling your devices as quickly as you can produce them, considering that Microsoft is only on their second generation device whereas Sony is on their third (not to count portable devices) and Nintendo is on... uh... fifth? Microsoft is doing well. They cracked a market.

Re:well... mods, it is not a troll (1)

aristotle-dude (626586) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246391)

Sure, the OP could have expanded a bit upon it but they were just offering their opinion.

There were numerous things that went wrong with the launch such as supply problems, issues with over heating and game crashes. Some suggested that these problems were indicative of a premature launch. It woudl say that launching without an HD disk solution and offering an addon later on was an unfortunate decision and indicated that they released it before it was really ready.

Ahh, the litany of failure (4, Interesting)

faloi (738831) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245973)

I always chuckle when my company brings on someone that's been directly responsible (at the executive level) for busines decisions in other companies that have failed misserably. Often, they recite all their past experiences, and the only thing I can think of is "Why did we hire them, and how much are we spending?"

Re:Ahh, the litany of failure (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246097)

On those guy's resume's, the failure is often listed as a success.... "XYZ startup: Director of Foo project, 2001-2003, Reason for leaving - Sold company for X million dollars" The omited detail is usually that X is signifigantly less than the projected market value of the company when the investors put their money in, and usually less than the amount of capital the company raised.

In this case though, Microsoft bought this guy's failu^H^H^H^H company for a meager (by bubble standards) $470 million dollars. I presume he came along with the deal.

Re:Ahh, the litany of failure (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246268)

Honestly, it all depends on why the company (or product) failed and what the person's involvement in that failure was. Lets just talk about a hypothetical future situation, we'll say that Nintendo is forced out of the console buisness (and becomes a third party) after the Wii is not that successful; we'll suppose that it failed to reach mass market success because of lack of HD support (an insane assumption).

Now, would you hire the person who was directly responsible for developing the hardware? Remembering that he produced a low-cost, reasonable powered system which provides a unique interface designed to give inovative gameplay experiances. Of course you would, he took a calculated risk that was reasonable.

On the other hand, suppose that someone in marketing decided to name the system the Ninendo Gay and had the system pink and purple because "Gay is the new straight!" and the system failed in the marketplace because no one wanted a pink box with "Gay" written on the side; would you hire this guy? Probably not because he (obviously) doesn't understand the market.

The odd thing with the XBox is that many of their higher executives sound closer to the second guy than the first;

Re:Ahh, the litany of failure (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246373)

I don't understand how a Microsoft hire helped IBM outdo Intel for the 360 box. It may well be that the products this person designed were good, but the business model for which he had no control over, was flawed. Usually when a product or business fails, it isn't because of the product itself but the PHBs that didn't know what to do with the product or were trying to sell a product that didn't have a sustainable market.

Ahh, the litany of trying. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246435)

"Often, they recite all their past experiences, and the only thing I can think of is "Why did we hire them, and how much are we spending?""

Of course. As everyone knows, successful people never fail.

Not so fast Billy Ray... (2, Insightful)

mabu (178417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245976)


I think the jury is still out on the success of the 360. This guy could be batting 1000.

Re:Not so fast Billy Ray... (3, Interesting)

mikeisme77 (938209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246136)

Considering they also hired Peter Moore to do the marketing for the XBox 360 (who also handled the failed marketing for the failed Dreamcast--although I, personally LOVED the Dreamcast and was sad when it died...) I would say he's probably batting 1,000. You don't take a team of failures and expect them to succeed.

But yes, I agree it is too early to make a call either way on this. Although if they don't get a killer app on the system before the PS3 & Wii launch (or on the launch dates of the PS3 & Wii) then I think their SOL and will be dead in the water. By that time the 360 will have been out for a year, and if they don't have a killer app after a year then that's definitely not a good sign...

Re:Not so fast Billy Ray... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246216)

"I think the jury is still out on the success of the 360"

How much worse can a console fail before the 'verdict' is in?

The 360 is the worst selling console ever. Someone feel free to name a console that has sold worse in its first 5-6 months. The 360 is right around 1.5-1.7 million worldwide.

The 360 is a console marketplace fiasco the likes of which no one is likely to ever see again in our lifetimes. The chances of another company with the perfect match of gross incompetence and the financial resources to carry on regardless just isn't going to show up again on the market.

Jumping the gun... (4, Insightful)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15245984)

...the never successful WebTV... But Baker finally has a hot seller with the Xbox 360, Microsoft's video game console launched worldwide last holiday season."

Shouldn't we wait until the 360 has outsold WebTV before we make that declaration?

Re:Jumping the gun... (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246164)

ouch, but I don't think WebTV even had 2 million users

Re:Jumping the gun... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246270)

> but I don't think WebTV even had 2 million users

Neither does the Xbox 360...

Re:Jumping the gun... (1)

Mr Z (6791) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246439)

Yeah, no kidding! I did some Googling and found one reference from 2000 saying WebTV had shipped 1M units.

Speaking of failure.. (1, Offtopic)

ReidMaynard (161608) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246003)

maybe he works at www.reed-electronics.com now....

destiny (5, Funny)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246016)

Wow! With a record like that he was destined to work for Microsoft.

Re:destiny (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246232)

Wow! With a record like that he was destined to work for Microsoft.

In all seriousness, in the tech industry failures can be more valuable than success. The important thing about a failure is that you learn what won't work. Microsoft Windows was a complete failure until version 3.0. Microsoft had a rash of failures with various databases until they came up with Access (low-end) and SQLServer (high-end). The failure of 3DO shows that you that overdesigning a game console and putting cutting edge technology and then slapping a price tag on it more than 3x that of your competition in a well-saturated market just ooesn't work either. ;)

Re:destiny (1)

0xC0FFEE (763100) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246326)

I'd wager that if you can live through failures (financially and psychologically) you're basically trading "maintenance" time (supporting a successful product) for "development" time (creating a new innovative product). Each person has its own objectives in life and its own threshold for security, and not all failures are signs of inherent potential coaxed by external factors. Still, a failure can be seen as a reset operation allowing you to turn the page and try something else that is uber-interesting. If you tried your best and something failed because of outside conditions, then you've learned your place among the elite of the industry.

Addendum: I am NOT advocating you follow my viewpoint as a kind of "road less travelled" to professional happinness. I'm just saying that road-ruggedness is not to be overlooked and that taking chances is a good way to get lucky.

So is Xbox now doomed? (2, Funny)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246025)

Holy crap...all you Xbox employees better get your resumes ready!

Microsoft (4, Funny)

thebdj (768618) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246045)

Turning failures into successes since Windows 95. *laugh people*

Re:Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246283)

Turning failures into successes since Windows 95. *laugh people*

I actually feel like crying.

its fate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246060)

this man has great karma!

Baker (1)

certel (849946) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246094)

What a successful resume... How the heck did he get hired at Microsoft? He was just a bad omen waiting to happen.

Re:Baker (1)

babbling (952366) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246199)

Yeah, this guy could be the nail in Microsoft's coffin!

Re:Baker (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246208)

Presumably it was either him or Jeff Minter...

Why not? (0, Troll)

the computer guy nex (916959) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246111)

"successful X360 launch may be stretching it a bit neh?"

The 360 still has the best games sold/console ratio in the history of games.

Their production output has finally hit a point where they can start keeping up demand well before the rival PS3 will hit shelves.

Xbox LIVE has been a monumental hit with more downloads/day than iTunes already.

Hard to say it wasn't a success.

Re:Why not? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246229)

Check post history.

Known paid for Microsoft astroturfer using multiple accounts to self mod up posts.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246266)

Known paid for Microsoft astroturfer

Paid by Microsoft to be an astroturfer on Slashdot? Twitter, is that you?

Re:Why not? (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246276)

Hmm, you don't think this has anything to do with that fact that nobody has hacked it yet, do you?

You can't compare consoles that have been out for years and have hacks that allow people to write homebrew and steal games to a console that's only been out for months and has no hacks yet. There's going to be an obvious difference in the numbers, even disregarding the console sales due to hacks.

Consoles that have been out for years have sole multiple units to the same person, especially abusive teenagers. (Which was the primary demographic for a while, you can bet.)

Come back in 10 years and if you can still say the x360 has the best ratio of any console (even disregarding ones that came after it) then you deserve a cookie. I think you'll be cookieless, though.

Re:Why not? (1)

WankersRevenge (452399) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246302)

Downloads per day mean nothing ... it's paid downloads per day that perks the ear corners.

Re:Why not? (3, Insightful)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246306)

Hard to say it wasn't a success.

That's like saying George Mason had a successful run in this year's NCAA basketball tournament. Yes, they posted a lot of wins that no one expected them to, but they still ended up with fewer points than Florida in their Final Four game. They failed to win the tournament.

Like Mason, Microsoft's Xbox division may be a success by some measures, but if they're in the red on the accounting ledgers, they're still a failure in some way.

Re:Why not? (2, Insightful)

nule.org (591224) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246344)

Have numbers to back that up? Given the number of ipods/itunes users out there (was it 8.5 million units this quarter?) compared to the number of xbox360 users I find your downloads a day statement a little far-fetched. Plus I imagine that xbox live downloads might be priced higher than the $0.99 that most itunes stuff goes for.

Re:Why not? (1)

Flyboy Connor (741764) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246394)

The 360 still has the best games sold/console ratio in the history of games.

Since so few of them are available and their price is ridiculously high, it is no wonder they are bought by rich game/Microsoft fanatics, who are typically the ones who buy the most games. So your holy ratio should not be measured at this point in history.

Xbox LIVE has been a monumental hit with more downloads/day than iTunes already.

May I ask where you got this statistic from? I cannot outright deny it, but it seems pretty fishy, comparing the number of people that use iTunes with the number of XBox owners. What entails a "download" from XBox live? Is that something people actually pay for? Are these things you download once, or are these things you download regularly (as iTunes provides)?

Hard to say it wasn't a success.

Hard to say it was. It has been out for only a few months, there is no history to measure yet. People who were vying to get a 360 initially but could not get one because of the low supply, have become less interested over time and are looking out for the Revolution. There are VERY few games that need a 360 to run, and the 360 runs a whole lot of games NOT. And Microsoft is still WAY in the red on the whole Xbox venture. It will be a long time before it is a financial success, let alone a success with the gaming public.

Mirror (2, Informative)

brjndr (313083) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246124)

Site apperas to be going down.

Mirror [nyud.net]

Thus just in... (1, Insightful)

gnovos (447128) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246128)

And this should properly be followed by: How Intel outfoxed IBM with Apple

Re:Thus just in... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246328)

"How Intel outfoxed IBM with Apple"

That was easy.

Intel got Apple to become so much of a pain in the ass to work with for IBM that IBM finally decided that the company wasn't worth the less than four percent of their chip sales and gave Apple the finger over a mobile 970 design.

Congrats Intel! IBM is really kicking themselves! Heh.

Oh, wait you believe the damage control Steve Jobs spouted back at last years WWDC...

I shouldn't be so mean, you probably are bitter because you just bought one of these wonderfully named MacBook Pros that are so 'cheap' and 'reliable'.

Heh.

But hey, at least those iPod sales are still going strong. Well except for their drop in half last quarter...

Re:Thus just in... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246411)

That would be insightful if it weren't for the sad fact that Apple was only a tiny fraction of the market for PowerPC systems. In case you missed it, all three of the next generation game systems will be powered by PowerPC chips, and combined they are probably going to outsell every PowerPC based Mac ever sold by a factor of 1000 to 1. Add to that the embedded systems market, the high performance and Linux/AIX workstation markets, and I think the title you would want for your followup should be "How IBM suckered Intel into taking on a difficult customer that won't get them much extra revenue".

Aim High! (4, Funny)

Rydia (556444) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246150)

I am inspired- inspired!- by this man's ability to keep his chin up through it all, shoulder all the adversity, and successfully move from a series of abysmal failures to merely a catastrophic failure!

My hat, sir, is off to you!

Re:Aim High! (1)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246356)

This reminds me of something a professor of mine once told me: "Don't forget that every day is a new chance for things to go horribly wrong. It's a philiosphy that has brought me to the hieghts of my career...." and then in sort of a whisperish voice he coninuted "..and some of the low ones too."

'Out-foxed'? No... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246169)

Microsoft went with IBM because they didn't want to get embarrassed by Sony and Nintendo with the uncompetitive chips from Intel and AMD.

A very senior engineer at NVidia I know is talking more and more about how they see Intel and AMD's x86 chips as dead weight dragging them down and how they would like to make x86 irrelevant by moving all application and OS functionality onto their boards.

The winners ended up being:

IBM
Sony
Nintendo
Microsoft

And the losers ended up being:
Intel - The big loser in all of this
AMD - Less so
Apple - Once IBM won all three console contracts they decided Apple was no longer worth the hassle for only 4% of their chips sales - buh bye!

If you love sitting around playing with SPEC and Intel's marketing compiler or hangout at aceshardware or other x86 fanboy sites you probably see things differently. Heh.

But the fact that a company sees there is a viable market for another 2-300 performance add on for x86 gaming systems in the PhysX boards should be as clear an indication as anyone needs to how far x86 is falling behind.

Re:'Out-foxed'? No... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246413)

Incendescent lightbulbs and portable electric heaters are behind as well but they still out sale comparable alternate products.
x86 is "behind" but it is needed for compatibility. Maybe not in the specialized console gaming, cell phones, PDA markets but it will around for years in the PC market.
No one is going to throw away everything they have to switch over any time soon.

Value of RISC?? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246176)

Why are we treating the processors like they are equal? Clearly a risc arch. is a better design for what they are doing on graphics world today. Dev tools are certainly a factor, but multi cores on sisc arch blow chunks compared to the segmenting ability of risc design. Am I missing something here??

failures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246205)

Geez this Baker guy sounds like the kiss of death.
Cripes.

Oops. (4, Funny)

Gannoc (210256) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246215)

Larry Yang-all dictated what Microsoft needed this time around.

They couldn't be late. They had to make hardware that could become much cheaper over time and had to pack as much performance into a game console as they could without overheating the box.


"Unfortunately, Larry Yang did not explicitly forbid overheating the power supply"

XBox360 - hot seller? (1)

Mark Gillespie (866733) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246222)

Not outside the US. In Europe and Japan it's sales are very poor. From this side of the Altlantic, it looks like Nick Baker has joined another doomed project..

Re:XBox360 - hot seller? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246322)

Actually that is NOT true - Here in the UK the xbox360 is still really shifting, and looks like this will continue, well at least until november.

Re:XBox360 - hot seller? (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246387)

Even in the states it is more or less a failed project. You'll only hear Microsoft fanboys who wish they didn't waste their money claim otherwise. And once PS3 and Wii hit the shelves later this year, I think the 360 will be out og the game until the next generation of consoles comes around and Microsoft takes another stab at it. If anyone tells you that the 360 is a success in the states, don't believe them, unless they are speaking in relative terms as compared to how the 360 did in other markets.

Learning from SUCCESS is the hard part. (5, Insightful)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246248)

Learning from failure is easy. The tough part is learning from success. When a project succeeds, there's no pressure to make searching analyses of the reasons for success. The upper-level managers involved begin to think they're innately cool and have all the answers... the success of their product line proves it.

Think Netscape... think Digital Equipment Corporation (I date their decline from the day when a salesperson apologized for being slow to return a call but added "After all, we're a billion dollar corporation." Think Ashton-Tate. Think Quark...

methinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15246335)

Nick Baker == t3h 5ux0r5

How does that headline make sense? (0)

posterlogo (943853) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246336)

I came to this post expecting to read something about IBM and Intel and XBOX 360s. The blurb makes mention only of the XBOX 360. Maybe it's in TFA, if I could read it. Poorly done Slashdust, poorly done.

An alternative to flaming his failures (3, Insightful)

BAM0027 (82813) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246364)

Blame his management for his failures. He was probably subordinate to many in key decisions. I would praise his for going after such diverse and technically challenging projects as he has.

What's the alternative? He slept with the right people? Come on. Each of his "failures" has been really high profile for each of the company's he's worked with. I think it's shortsighted to simply blame him.

Hahahahahaha ... (1)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 8 years ago | (#15246370)

From the article:

The team labored for years and made critical decisions that enabled Microsoft to beat Sony and Nintendo to market with a new box, despite a late start with the Xbox in the previous product cycle.


When I read that .. the only thing I could think of was: made critical decisions == compromise quality. Hahahahaha. We all know the production problems and quality problems the 360 had / is having.

I love spin!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...