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Captain America vs. The Patriot Act?

CowboyNeal posted more than 8 years ago | from the what-would-superman-do dept.

303

Nerd_52637 writes "Yesterday, Marvel Comics released the first in its miniseries Civil War, which can only be described as a gutsy comic-book series focusing on the whole debate over homeland security and tighter government controls in the name of public safety. The seven-issue series once again puts superheroes right back in the thick of real-world news, just as DC Comics has Batman battling al-Qaeda in a soon-to-appear comic and Marvel's X-Men continue to explore themes of public intolerance and discrimination. In Civil War, hero is pitted against hero in the choice of whether or not to side with the government, as issues ranging from a Guantanamo-like prison camp for superheroes, embedded reporters and the power of media all play in the mix as Superheroes are ordered to register as human WMDs or be branded fugitives."

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Mod parent up! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266849)

Mod parent up +5 nonexistent!

Been there, done that (2, Informative)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266856)

Watchmen. Astro City - Confession, etc.

Re:Been there, done that (4, Informative)

enrac (681907) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266885)

They touched on this in Dark Night Returns. Reagan uses Superman in some Cold War skirmish, Batman is a fugitive . . .

Re:Been there, done that (-1, Offtopic)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266949)

Indeed, and if you look at Watchmen, you can see how obviously dated plots relating to current events can become in twenty years. I think the most lastingly enjoyable comics miniseries are those which have nothing to do with what's going on in contemporary politics, and everything to do with the writers' creative fancy. For example, I love the X-Men miniseries X-Cutioner's Song [amazon.com] . It's got time travel, battles on the Moon, people being sucked into alternate dimensions, etc. What more could you ask for? And it's still enjoyable today when Watchmen just makes one depressed with its 1980s "the end is nigh" fearmongering.

Re:Been there, done that (0, Offtopic)

July 21, 2006 (968634) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267018)

Mod parent down. Link contains referral. If he has a point to make, he needs to make it without including an advertisement. By including an advertisement that nets him cash, the obvious conclusion is that he is only posting to make money - not to have a discussion.

Link to X-Cutioner's Song [amazon.com] without the referral link.

Honestly, it's fucking pathetic that you're trying to make money by spamming Slashdot with referral links. I hope you get hit by a fucking bus.

Re:Been there, done that (0, Redundant)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267233)

Mod parent down. Link contains referral. If he has a point to make, he needs to make it without including an advertisement.

I've a browser extension that automatically creates a referrer link when the cite tag is used. So, whenever I mention a media item in a post, a referral link is then applied. I am not spamming Slashdot, since my posts are first thought out before a referrer tag even comes into the picture. Check my posting history and you'll see that I've made plenty of posts without referral links. It is only when it is necessary to cite a publication that referral links even come into the picture.

Honestly, it's fucking pathetic that you're trying to make money by spamming Slashdot with referral links.

There's nothing pathetic about making a little money (more than a little actually, at Slashdot referral links fetch up to $100/day tax-free for some) for posting well-written and insightful commentary. My karma is "Excellent", obviously most people here find value in what I say.

Re:Been there, done that (0, Offtopic)

July 21, 2006 (968634) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267492)

"I've a browser extension that automatically creates a referrer link"
Spend a little less time trying to make tiny amounts of money by making Slashdot a worse place and more time learning English, you fucking moron.
"There's nothing pathetic about making a little money (more than a little actually, at Slashdot referral links fetch up to $100/day tax-free for some) for posting well-written and insightful commentary. My karma is "Excellent", obviously most people here find value in what I say."
Actually, it is pathetic. And "most people" is completely wrong. Most users on Slashdot are not moderators therefore you cannot draw that conclusion. You see, you're a scumbag that has to spam Slashdot in order to get by and I am an intelligent person that can destroy your arguments without a second thought. I hope you rot in hell you pathetic loser.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

FLEB (312391) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267554)

and I am an intelligent person that can destroy your arguments without a second thought.

You're destroying things, but the arguments aren't it (Hint: Aim for the content! The CONTENT!). And, yes, it's rather obvious you aren't sparing a second thought on this thread, but it's nothing really worth boasting about.

So, in conclusion: July, STFU. CRC, please don't feed the trolls. FLEB, take your own advice.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267555)

erm.. why would that $100/day be tax free?

Re:Been there, done that (4, Funny)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267080)

And it's still enjoyable today when Watchmen just makes one depressed with its 1980s "the end is nigh" fearmongering.

I agree, that '80s stuff is so dated, I can't believe anyone would think it has any relevance to modern events. Most political commentary really has no relevence beyond a few months from publication date, so I don't understand why anyone would waste their time writing or reading it.

I'd write more, but I'm meeting a friend to see V for Vendetta in a few minutes.

Re:Been there, done that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267112)

Wow. Dude, that was some awesome burn.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267215)

OP raises point X, you refute point Y. Well done. With such tactics you must be a master debater in your local area.

Just because something is dated, doesn't mean it has no relevance. After all, many people claim Shakespeare has relevance to today's society. However I think everyone would agree it's clearly dated.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

syntaxglitch (889367) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267426)

He was making a joke. The recent movie V for Vendetta is, with a few tweaks to make nods to current events, based on a comic from the 80s by, I think, the same author as Watchmen, the "dated" material being referred to.

Humor through sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek faux-hypocracy.

Re:Been there, done that (4, Insightful)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267475)

Yes they are both graphic novels by Alan Moore.
I agree that V for Vendetta (although one could consider it fear mongering) is absolutely relevant today, just as it was when it was written.
I suppose OP might consider 1984 to be outdated as well, but I believe the basic story of a government exerting total and brutal control over the population is a timeless warning message.

Re:Been there, done that (5, Insightful)

Count Fenring (669457) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267009)

Hmmm... I disagree. While both awesome pieces of work, neither is really dealing with the issues of government control in the same way, if at all.

For one, the conspiracy in Watchmen is non-governmental: It's actually an exceedingly liberal private citizen (Adrian/Ozymandias) who is controlling public opinion and worldview. The government plays a strang side-role in this; they are environment, not actor.

And Astro City: Confession, while one of my all-time favorite comics, is really dealing with public opinion and its manipulation by authority in a much softer, more human-focused way.

Maybe a better example would be Frank Miller's Martha Washington books, or Elektra: Assassin. Still, I don't think anything out there invalidates this project.

Re:Been there, done that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267178)

What about the environment that led to the current situation -- the criminalizing of superheroes? That is what is happening in the Marvel series. In Watchmen, it already happened, and the story is about the aftereffects. My own interpretation is that in a world without superheroes or superpowers, there are still people who think they are above all else in order to achieve the common good.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

ryusen (245792) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267038)

When i read the part abotu prison camps and registering super powers, that suddenly reminded me of "Days of Future Past." That old X-men alternate future... how long ago was that?

Re:Been there, done that (1)

mge (120046) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267090)

paralells The Incredibles [go.com]

CIA Secret Prisons vs. Amnesty International (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267149)

As a card-carrying member of Amnesty International (AI), I was shocked when AI accused Washington of running a Soviet-style gulag. I burned my AI membership card and flushed the ashes down the toilet. After all, AI could not provide any evidence supporting the outrageous claims, and using hyperbole to support human rights damages AI's credibility and the ultimate mission of rescuing victims of brutal (often Chinese) human-rights abuses.

Then, last month, I read about the stunning news report by the "Washington Post" [belleville.com] . It reported on CIA-gate: the CIA, with the full approval of the president, has been running a network of secret prisons where enemies of the American nation are interrogated. Although this network is nowhere near the status of the Soviet gulag, the network does put tremendous credibility in the original accusations by AI.

At times like these, we need a Captain America to fight for truth, justice, and Western values. A network of secret prisons grossly violates the most sacred of Western values.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

krotkruton (967718) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267150)

True, these issues have been discussed before, but this is news because Marvel is doing it, and many more people know about Marvel than they do Watchmen. It's a lot like all the publicity around Brokeback Mountain. That theme has been done independently, but never in a major motion picture.

People expect independents to make controversial subject matter. They don't expect to see it in the mainstream, and when they do, it raises eyebrows.

Re:Been there, done that (1)

Kelson (129150) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267314)

this is news because Marvel is doing it

Anyone remember the Mutant Registration Act [wikipedia.org] ?

Re:Been there, done that (3, Informative)

cliffmeece (653677) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267392)

Not just that, but in the eighties the Avengers had this as a recurring story element. Specifically it was about government regulation of the Avengers, and if I recall correctly, they had some government regulator guy who was always breathing down their neck. Flat-top guy with sunglasses.

Also, that was the same guy ( I'm pretty sure ) that tried to screw Captain America out of his identity, which again is pretty much the same storyline.

Their argument was that they (the government) 'owned' the concept and image of Captain America and wanted to get some return on their investment. CA refused and gave up the costume and shield and became a fugitive hero (much like in Civil War) while the government appointed super patriot as the new CA.

It got worked out in the end, though ;-)

Re:Been there, done that (1)

Saanvik (155780) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267177)

or Powers [wikipedia.org]

Re:Been there, done that (1)

TrentC (11023) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267518)

Watchmen. Astro City - Confession, etc.

Marvel tried this before with the Mutant Registration Act of the late 1980's (which figured into the X-Men titles for a while before it quietly disappeared).

Sounds Familiar (0, Offtopic)

QuantumSpritz (703080) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266862)

Rising Stars? I swear I've read that plotline before...

Yeah, but will it be (3, Funny)

Ryz0r (849412) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266865)

The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny? [ultimateshowdown.org]

OK, that flash has been overused recently, but Hero vs Hero? I couldnt resist!

Future issues with issues (4, Funny)

nizo (81281) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266870)

...Guantanamo-like prison camp for superheroes...

I just know the issue where they make all the superheroes pile into a giant naked pyramid will be a big hit.

Re:Future issues with issues (1)

i am kman (972584) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266925)

Too late - Drawn Together does that pretty much every week. And they forced the superheros to wear women's panties on their heads. But, then again, that did make Superman cry.

Re:Future issues with issues (1)

thealsir (927362) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267128)

Since superman wears panties already, I don't see why they needed ladies for him

Re:Future issues with issues (0)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266930)

You're thinking of "Abu Gharib." I don't believe there to be any hard evidence that prisoners are mistreated at Guantanamo; the greatest complaint is that they are tried before a military tribunal instead of a civilian one (could be wrong, I hardly follow the issue).

It's true! Just ask Al Jazeera (0, Flamebait)

i am kman (972584) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266987)

But Al Jazeera said prisoners were abused in Guantanamo, so it must be true!!

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8723 [aljazeera.com] :)

(Added the ':)' in case any lunatics out there thought I was serious).

Re:It's true! Just ask Al Jazeera (1)

Photon Ghoul (14932) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267548)

But Al Jazeera said prisoners were abused in Guantanamo, so it must be false!! :)

Re:Future issues with issues (5, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267042)

"I don't believe there to be any hard evidence that prisoners are mistreated at Guantanamo;"

I don't know what you mean by "hard" evidence but we know for sure people have been waterboarded there and that's classified as torture. People have also been subjected to food and sleep deprivation, extremes of temprature, and being strapped in uncomfortable positions for extended periods in specially built devices. Finally people have been injected with various drugs.

Those have all been admitted to by the military itself. Not just allegations by prisoners. The military feels like those actions are not torture. But they again the military also feels like these human beings do not deserve all the rights specified under the UN human rights charter or the geneva conventions.

"the greatest complaint is that they are tried before a military tribunal instead of a civilian one (could be wrong, I hardly follow the issue)."

No the greatest complaint is that people have been severly tortured for extended periods of time. Those complaints are from people who were eventually let go. Perhaps you should follow the issue more closely. It's your country after all and you are somewhat responsible for what it does.

Having said that who know what's going there? It's not like any of us are allowed visits and even the red cross has to ask permission and schedule a visit. Nobody is stupid enough to torture people in front of visiting congressmen and red cross. They probably clean up for those visits.

Finally when the red cross asked to interview prisoners privately they were refused. The military would not allow it. Take that for what it's worth. I remember Saddam didn't want his scientists interviewed privately by the weapons inspectors before the war too.

Re:Future issues with issues (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267154)

****But they again the military also feels like these human beings do not deserve all the rights specified under the UN human rights charter or the geneva conventions.**** Have you read the geneva conventions? They are being granted the "rights" given under the geneva conventions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Conventi on [wikipedia.org] to those who fight without uniform against civilian populations. The "rights" of terrorists include the right to be killed like the barbarians they are.

Re:Future issues with issues (5, Insightful)

PostItNote (630567) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267266)

You don't get it both ways. They are either soldiers, or they are criminals. If they are criminals, then they get trials in front of a judge. If they are soldiers, then they get POW status and Geneva Convention protection. There ain't no third category except in the minds of people who want to establish a class of subhumans that have not been endowed by their creator with any inherent and inalienable rights; (among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness).

Re:Future issues with issues (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267287)

They are either innocent, POWs, or criminals.

If they are innocent, we violate basic morality by torturing them.
If they are POWs, we violate treaties by torturing them.
If they are criminals (even noncitizens), it is unconstitutional to torture them.

As for the whole "nuke about to go off" torture scenario: That's what a presidential pardon is for, so you let's not pretend it justifies systematic government-sponsored torture.

--Guy without a slashdot account
Defunct blog: http://deltanin.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

Re:Future issues with issues (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267531)

Damn straight. Okay, let's leave aside the fact that torture rarely gets you anything besides false information, made up on the spot to end the torture. (Yeah, it works on TV, because TV editors are lazy, and good interrogation techniques are boring. Good-cop/bad-cop is probably the most dramatic, and it's done to death on cop shows, so....)
  The "nuke about to go off" argument always seemed like a dishonest contrivance to me, and the people who always bring it up make me VERY nervous.
  Think about it this way: I'm sure you could make up some crazy-ass scenario where you just HAD to expose yourself to a classroom full of children or else people were going to die, but if you're really pushing that story and arguing for your legal right to drop trou in front of the kiddies, we're gonna start to suspect you're not really in it for the whole saving-lives part, are you?

  Incidentally, most of the torture techniques we are using were not even designed for extracting information at all! They're an ad-hoc assortment of KGB and Gestapo* techniques, nearly all of which were primarily used to break down a person's psyche, so that false confessions could be extracted from captured soldiers. These were not for finding out where the bomb is, they were strictly for propaganda films!

  * Temperature modification was one of the Gestapo's favorites. You know: the "Playin' with th' thermostat, HAW! HAW!" style fraternity hijinks, according to the torture apologists. Yeah. Try being naked, chained to the floor, as you repeatedly go from sweating profusely, to feeling that sweat begin to freeze on your skin, over and over, for a few days. I'm sure the old Chinese Water Torture was "practically cozy" too! After all, it's not they was a-beatin' on ya!

And someone mod'ed that "insightful". (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267289)

Have you read the geneva conventions?
Yes. Many times.
They are being granted the "rights" given under the geneva conventions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Conventi [wikipedia.org] on to those who fight without uniform against civilian populations.
And you're linking to Wikipedia. How about just linking to the documents themselves?

http://www.genevaconventions.org/ [genevaconventions.org]
The "rights" of terrorists include the right to be killed like the barbarians they are.
You won't find that stated as such in there.

What you will find is that ... if you do not meet the qualifications to be a POW, you are a "civilian" and must be turned over to the local authorities for any crimes you may have committed.

If the local authorities do not exist, you may be held until they are established.

Other than that, you have all the same rights and protections that a POW has, except for things like getting paid.

The military is not allowed to torture anyone it captures. Regardless of their past actions.

Re:Future issues with issues (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267298)

Yeah, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? How are we to know that these people in Guantanamo are actually guilty if there's no fair and public trial?

Re:Future issues with issues (1)

Millenniumman (924859) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267464)

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to POWs. If they are captured while shooting at American soldiers in an occupied country, then they are prisoners of war.

Re:Future issues with issues (2, Insightful)

Watson Ladd (955755) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267506)

But they have rights. Like food, medical attention, and no waterboarding. And you release them after the war is over.

Re:Future issues with issues (1, Insightful)

SEAL (88488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267404)

Good lord, aside from the drug-injection allegation, some of the things you listed are positively cozy compared to special forces training. Not just in the U.S. but in many nations. The problem is that everyone has their own definition of torture.

I'd really like to see a link where the U.S. military said they were injecting Guantanamo Bay inmates with drugs for any purpose other than medical attention.

Working against the U.S. administration is the current debate about whether interrogation guidelines should remain classified [nwsource.com] . I can see both sides of the argument on that one.

Now what I don't agree with is prisoners being held in a legal-limbo for years without trial. As someone else said, they are either foreign soldiers who should be treated as POWs, or they are foreign criminals. If they are the latter, ok they may not have Constitutional rights that an American would have, but they should at least be extradited to their home countries, or prosecuted in the U.S. civilian system as a foreign national.

Re:Future issues with issues (4, Insightful)

Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267541)

Documented in an Army Inspector General's report [abc.net.au] obtained by Salon. Here's a link to the official report [defenselink.mil] (sorry, PDF).

If the methods used at Guantanamo disturbed the FBI agents who visited (another source of problem reports early on), then the rest of us should be disturbed too.

Re:Future issues with issues (1)

Kadmos (793363) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267109)

I don't believe there to be any hard evidence that prisoners are mistreated at Guantanamo

You don't believe your own [forbes.com] government [google.com.au] ? Well that is very understandable.

Re:Future issues with issues (1)

damgx (132688) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267136)

I don't believe there to be any hard evidence that prisoners are mistreated at Guantanamo

So it is okay, to strip people of all rights?
If the USA does not want to follow the Geneva Convention, then they (the prisoners) should have the same rights as American citisens. (They are either soldiers or 'normal' criminals make up your mind).

Fysical abuse is only one aspect. Not knowing what you are being accused of and for how long you need to be locked up, is to me atleast very wrong. This is the same elements as in torture.

I hope people don't just forget how the US act, and even these people should not just be "out of sight - out of mind".

Two wrongs does not make a right...

no no no (0, Troll)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266934)

at gitmo they pee on the koran

Gitmo-like? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266873)

What you, the poster, or any Slashdot editor actually knows about Gitmo would fill a thimble with room left over for an elephant.

What they'll try to pass off as fact about Gitmo is actually what comes out of the elephant.

Have a nice day in the USA, parlor-boys.

Are you doing a jack nicholson impression? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266892)

Is this your way of saying "You can't handle the truth"?

Hollywood did it better.

Good Comic Idea (0, Troll)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266875)

We could have a comic where the superheroes are CowboyNeal and Taco's wife. We could call it "THE FAT TEAM."

Human WMD? (0, Offtopic)

Oldsmobile (930596) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266876)

Human WMD?

Is that what the dirty bomber is?

Re:Human WMD -- wrong story (1)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266943)

The dirty bomber is "The Spleen" from the movie Mystery Men [filmguru.net] .

Pull my finger.

Re:Human WMD? (1)

KrayzieKyd (906704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267024)

To be fair, and correct for that matter, post-humans, otherwise known as "super heroes" are not being asked to register as "Human WMD's." They are being asked to register as law abiding crime fighters so someone can be held accountable for destruction of public property and life. I won't get into my views on it, since I am an avid comic book reader and highly invested in Civil War, but don't write an article about it if you don't know ABSOLUTELY EVEYRTHING about the subject. 'nuff said.

In classic comic tradition (5, Interesting)

i am kman (972584) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266881)

Kudos to Marvel!

Comics in general and Marvel in particular have had a long tradition in embracing social issues - witness the classic Marvel comic series that decried on McCarthyism. This one is interesting because they aren't really taking sides.

Of course, many cartoons these days are overtly political (Southpark, American Dad, Boondocks) - at least Marvel tries hard to let the readers make up their own minds and explore the issue themselves.

Re:In classic comic tradition (3, Funny)

subgrappler (864963) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267296)

now lets see "Hulk vs DRM" imagine how pissed he would be when he finds out his music player only supports atrac.

lol, wut? (4, Insightful)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266883)

Superheroes are ordered to register as human WMDs

Or what? They'll arrest them? Superheroes are used to fighting other super-beings. If pissed off, how many puny humans could they kill before getting taken down?

This could turn out to be made of Win and Good after all.

Re:lol, wut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266937)

That's when they send the gubmint freaks after them, you know the ones, all of the other human WMDs that DID register?

Re:lol, wut? (2, Insightful)

Firethorn (177587) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266993)

For that matter, what effect would 'registration' have? How would having a list of 'Human WMDs' enhance your safety? It's like a gun registry. It only helps you when you feel the need to collect them from the law-abiding group who registered them according to the laws. The criminals aren't going to tell you about them. Besides, if you know enough to go after them for being a unregistered WMD, can't the government note that down in the list that way?

GURPs superheroes had a service where you could register your paranormal powers at an agency. If a situation came up that you'd be useful for, you could be called up and hired as a temporary contractor for extremely good money.

Do you have the ability to shrink down to 6" while retaining your normal strength? Well, Timmy fell down this well...

I am such a nerd (1)

way2trivial (601132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267036)

GENOSHA... search for that in relation to x-men.

Re:lol, wut? (2, Funny)

deadsquid (535515) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267020)

No, no, no. They'll sue them for copyright infringement because "superhero" is taken. "WMD" is not.

Re:lol, wut? (3, Insightful)

GreyKnight (545843) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267074)

Superheroes are ordered to register as human WMDs
Or what? They'll arrest them? Superheroes are used to fighting other super-beings. If pissed off, how many puny humans could they kill before getting taken down?
Sonuds like you haven't been watching Justice League Unlimited. A government agency with sufficient resources can indeed make itself a threat to superheroes...

Re:lol, wut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267321)

Question 42: Your weakness is

a) kryptonite
b) low fuel
c) daylight
d) lack of head armor
e) other: _______

Question 43: Your "secret" identity is...

Re:lol, wut? (2, Insightful)

Kelson (129150) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267326)

Or what? They'll arrest them? Superheroes are used to fighting other super-beings.

Exactly.

The ones who agree to work with the government are now authorized -- perhaps even obligated -- to take down those who don't.

Stan shold retire (0, Troll)

Joiseybill (788712) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266884)

Damn - from the guy who gave us SpiderMan /Venom , X-Men and countless original storylines

We now get reality TV http://www.whowantstobeasuperhero.tv/ [whowantsto...perhero.tv] and storylines already beaten to death by Slashdot.

What's next - will Tony Stark release Iron Man's suit code under GPL?

feh

Ren and Stimpy VS The Decider (-1, Troll)

lokiman (972867) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266886)

When is it going to come out that George Bush is Stimpy's cousin? I am thinking the only way he is going to find out abnout it himself is through a comic book

Re:Ren and Stimpy VS The Decider (1)

studyguidesystems (971995) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266999)

George Bush Can't read.

Re:Ren and Stimpy VS The Decider (1)

lokiman (972867) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267002)

Thus the comic book comment. I am sure he loves them funnies. Probably mostly reads ziggy or Family Circus though.

Superheroes always do The Right Thing(tm) (0)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266891)

"In Civil War, hero is pitted against hero in the choice of whether or not to side with the government, [...] as Superheroes are ordered to register as human WMDs or be branded fugitives."

Of course, we all know they'll do The Right Thing(tm).

No... I'm not cynical about all my favorite comics, movies etc. being ruined by politically-correct mediocrity... ;)

Re:Superheroes always do The Right Thing(tm) (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266961)

What about Captain America as The Nomad and The Captain? He's currently signed up as the anti-registration faction leader, too.

What comic books are you freaking reading (2, Informative)

technoextreme (885694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267173)

f course, we all know they'll do The Right Thing(tm).

No... I'm not cynical about all my favorite comics, movies etc. being ruined by politically-correct mediocrity... ;)

Have you even read any comic books lately? Let me tell you what has just gone on recently. Batman has had his mind erased by other superheros because he found out that Zatanna was presured into erasing the minds of villians by other super heroes. I just read a comic book where Giant Man is an abusive @sshole and sprays his wife (Wasp) with bugspray when they got into a fight. He then essentally helps another world faction of heros to essentially invade the United States. (Almost confused this plot line in the Ultimate universe with the mentioned in the article.)

Hardly brilliant. (1, Insightful)

Distinguished Hero (618385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266906)

From TFA: "In the first issue of Civil War, he brilliantly folds an entire dissertation on security into one succinct dialogue bubble by saying: "Don't play politics with me, lady. Superheroes need to stay above that stuff or Washington starts telling us who the supervillains are."

I would hardly call those two sentences brilliant, or even succinct for that matter. In fact, the third sentence does not even seem grammatically correct (though I could be wrong; English is my third language).

Re:Hardly brilliant. (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267250)

I would hardly call those two sentences brilliant, or even succinct for that matter. In fact, the third sentence does not even seem grammatically correct (though I could be wrong; English is my third language).

When you can crush a man with your pinky finger or shoot lasers from your eyes... No one is going to tell you what they think your grammar skills.

I remember when DC called it... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266927)

I remember when DC called it 'Kingdom Come'.

Right subjects, wrong audience (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266929)

All very good, but enlightening a generation far too young to do anything. In another 15 years kids who experience political intelligence and develop the ability to weigh up complex social debates will be able to make a difference to the world. If one still exists. The problem is not our children, its the fucking clueless, apathetic, greedy and lazy adults that grew up on a diet of might-is-right Hollywood poison for the last two decades. How do you re-educate people who live in denial while other peoples kids are bombed with depleted uranium so they can drive their fat ass around in a gas guzzling SUV?

Re:Right subjects, wrong audience (4, Insightful)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266956)

All very good, but enlightening a generation far too young to do anything.

Uh huh. And what would you say is the target demographic -- and the average age -- of today's comic book reader?

(Hint: Your first guess is wrong.)

This is the best article you got Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266936)

shutdown /t:0

Um... (3, Interesting)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#15266958)

From TFA:

There is, for instance, one accident where a group of novice superheroes gets in over its head, leading to the death of a schoolyard full of children.

The politicians are concerned about public safety. So Congress passes a bill forcing all superheroes to register with the government as human weapons of mass destruction, and to work, in effect, for Washington. Superheroes who don't comply will themselves be branded fugitives.

Geez, weren't the X-men already hiding from the government for being dangerous?

Try something more intelligent, people. Talk about the ISPs snooping on you, about the RIAA lobbying the congress, about the Patriot Act, DRM, DMCA and all that stuff that's being shoved down our throats.

But do it in the near future, present a fear-driven country, where all civil liberties are ALREADY lost. We want to see people being arrested for having analog TV's! For copying music in authorized formats! For using encryption in their e-mails! We want Big Brother! (in the comics, that is)

Re:Um... (1)

wpegden (931091) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267134)

We want to see people being arrested for ... using encryption in their e-mails!
How about a comic book about France (not the getting arrested part, of course, just the illegality....)? This stuff isn't as far off as some think...

Try Identity Crisis. (1)

technoextreme (885694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267230)

Try something more intelligent, people. Talk about the ISPs snooping on you, about the RIAA lobbying the congress, about the Patriot Act, DRM, DMCA and all that stuff that's being shoved down our throats. But do it in the near future, present a fear-driven country, where all civil liberties are ALREADY lost. We want to see people being arrested for having analog TV's! For copying music in authorized formats! For using encryption in their e-mails! We want Big Brother! (in the comics, that is)
Try reading Identity Crisis. It's close to what you are looking for. Essentially, the plot deals with how far the DC comic book heroes were willing to protect the people that they care for. While it isn't exactly an oppresive regime brought on by the likes superheroes it does deal with issues that aren't entirely black and white.

Re:Um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267292)

"But do it in the near future, present a fear-driven country, where all civil liberties are ALREADY lost."

What like tomorrow? Your civil liberties have been lost, this is a fear driven country. Don't believe me? Then why is our right to use mass transit controled by what our current "Threat-Level" is?

Re:Um... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267323)

Max Headroom (the US-produced version of the series) had a couple of gems like this. In one episode, Edison Carter is framed for credit fraud, which is worse than murder. In another, they note that a "blank" (person without proper government-provided identity number) has a television with an off switch, which is illegal.

Put down that comic and go to church. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15266964)

Superhero as god to the modern individualist.

I see no other explanation for this worship of impossibly poweful characters other than the desire by fans to define their own morality by their actions. Super humans are put into morality plays and must make hard choices. That screams jesus. Perhaps it is time for you loners and habitual comic readers to discover the one true story, the story to end all stories. Jesus loves you, and he can beat Captain America, Superman, Batman and Spiderman put together.

Re:Put down that comic and go to church. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267105)

As fellow A.C., here's the truth:

Green Arrow, Oliver Queen the unpowered archer, can beat JEsus. He'll do one of those great Neil Adams poses, decry the lack of honesty of Jesus's followers, and then come the boxing glove arrows.

The ways GA is better then JEsus:

He died (actually Vaporized saving Metropolis) and came back.
He has a son. Who's a premier martial artist and archer.
He teams with everyone from Green Lantern, to the JLA to Batman.
He has raised two orphans.
He has a better beard.

Jesus Green Arrow.

Face it.

Re:Put down that comic and go to church. (1)

Beyond_GoodandEvil (769135) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267423)

"If you wanna kiss the sky better learn how to kneel."

If they make them register (3, Funny)

MourningBlade (182180) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267010)

...but even if they DO register as human WMDs will the government know where they are?

Whoever has HULK on their side would win H vs H (1)

Hulkster (722642) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267065)

'Nuff said!

Re:Whoever has HULK on their side would win H vs H (1)

BrynM (217883) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267188)

Not if Juggernaut [wikipedia.org] or Blob [wikipedia.org] is on the other side. Man I wanna see Blob, Juggy and Hulk throw down... from a distance... a big distance.

Re:Whoever has HULK on their side would win H vs H (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267460)

Of course, there's a reason why Planet Hulk [ign.com] is transpiring at the same time...

Was already wondering when this is gonna come (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267119)

I mean, think about it. Some guy with super powers that could bag any government agency including its agents anytime and twice on Sunday, and he's still allowed to have a secret identity, lead a normal life and only put on his spandex to hunt down some bad guys?

In reality, he'd have been approached by the feds ages ago and offered the choice to either work for them or, more likely, some dirt would've been dumped on him to have the media label him the greatest threat to humanity since Saddam, then he'd been hunted down 'til he's dead.

Face it. Government does NOT like power that isn't in its hands and under its control.

Re:Was already wondering when this is gonna come (1)

Nerd_52637 (938469) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267325)

some dirt would've been dumped on him to have the media label him the greatest threat to humanity since Saddam

That would only work until the real villian reveals himself in a big climactic ending and the superhero saves the day in public and then everybody loves him again.

At least that's how it always happens for Spiderman...

Happened all ready (1)

technoextreme (885694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267488)

In reality, he'd have been approached by the feds ages ago and offered the choice to either work for them or, more likely, some dirt would've been dumped on him to have the media label him the greatest threat to humanity since Saddam, then he'd been hunted down 'til he's dead.
It happened to Batman and Superman. Now mind you the President of the United States at the time was Lex Luthor but with Batman he was going after Bruce Wayne and accidently hired the only person who knew that he was a super hero.

marvel has some great writers (1)

blew_fantom (809889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267166)

with stories like 'x-tinction agenda' and 'god loves man kills', marvel has always been pretty edgy and had some good social commentary. and that's while they are still under the comics code! more and more writers are seeing comics as a viable medium to tell their story and i'm looking forward to more good quality stories in the future.

"Cape & Hammer" RPG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267169)

In the "Universal Decay" rules that are used for the d20-variant "Dead Stars" universe, there is a section on using the rules for other genres. One of them is the "Cape & Hammer" super-hero setting. I was lucky enough to be in on one of the early playtests, and got to explore a world of super-heroes and politics run rampant.

The tone of the setting is that the super-hero world, having just recently recovered from the bad PR of the very first super-human being a nazi commando, is blamed for 9/11. The fact that they COULD have stopped it, but nobody DID stop it, is used as "evidence" that super-humans are all potential terrorists...if not ACTUAL terrorists.

When Bush is assassinated by a super-powered, and uncaptured, killer shortly after the passage of the Patriot Act, Chenney steps into the oval office. His first act is to spearhead legislation which removes minority protection from super-beings, and effectively places them all on probation. This essentially gives the nation the feeling that it is OK to express long-supressed intolerance towards super-beings, and nation-wide incidents of violence ensues.

One such incident, which occurs shortly after we bomb Bagdad and occupy the rubble, is the firebombing of Lodestone Construction Services in Pheonix, AZ. A construction company run by an 80-yr-old super-being trapped in the form of a rusted metal humanoid, since changng back would kill his frail heart. He employs several otehr lesser super-beings, who use their powers to assist in building construction. Fortunately for Lodestone, he is fireproof. Unfortunately for the rest of Pheonix, his employees..who were his surrogate familly...were not.

In a rage Lodestone breaks into the local TV station and takes the crew hostage. In accordance to his demands, they put him on national TV. He declares that, in memory of his lost loved ones, Pheonix is now independant from US authority and is declared a safe haven for all super-beings and those who respect thier individuality.

Then the lights go out in Pheonix, and everyplace within five miles of it. So do all electronic devices, as Lodestone supresses ALL circuit activity in the vicinity.

Over the next year of attempts to use old WWII-era technology to try and retake Pheonix (since nothing electrical works there after that night), it is discovered that Lodestone is not only fireproof but also anti-tank orund proof. And strong enough to use tanks like beach balls. There is even footage of him in action on the internet.

Now it is the year 2004. All super-beings have been declared "enemy combatants", and therefore have no civil rights, with the DHS being tasked with finding and "neutralizing" them. Pheonix is STILL under Lodestone's control, and is surrounded by a military cordon. Chenney, siting the succession of Pheonix and the ongoing troubles in the middle east with Iran invading Iraq to liberate it from the US, has suspended elections due to "national emergency concearns".

That is the setting, and DAMN it was fun!

We played DHS agents who secretly had super-powers, and were on the super-being task force...but tried to subvert the system from within ;)

Will it get the sour taste of DK2 out of my brain? (1)

jpellino (202698) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267224)

How long did we wait for the third installment of DK Strikes Again - all the time hearing that the delay had nothing to do with the concurrent events following September 11 - all to bizarre effect - something that could have been bigger and better than DK Returns and fell to the earth with a muffled thud.

Comics and Politics (1)

peterfa (941523) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267234)

My friend who's a major comic book buff once told me that he thinks the idea of Batman going after Usama bin Ladin was a bad idea. I was surprised at his comment since I thought it would be really interesting to see Batman go at it. My friends opinion was that a comic must be a good read for both children and adults and mixing political messages defeats that effect.

In Civil War, hero is pitted against hero (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267297)

In the Iraq war, pirate is pitted against pirate. There are no heroes. Well, maybe the mothers who try to shield their children from the bombs and bullets...

Re:In Civil War, hero is pitted against hero (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15267350)




In the Iraq war, pirate is pitted against pirate. There are no heroes. Well, maybe the mothers who try to shield their children from the bombs and bullets...

I hope your mom has a quality sperm shield because she has a lot of it shot at her.




This is about more than the theme (5, Informative)

orbz (939720) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267300)

To all you people rushing to say "Obscure comic company X did this in 1983 maaaan!"... just because some comic you read dealt with the issue of corrupt government before is not the same thing. This particular government is QUITE a particular government, and George Bush is named as the president in this Marvel series (according to TFA), which makes this a pretty specific attack on this very specific post-9/11 presidency and I think that makes this quite noteworthy. This isn't just about the fiction of it.

Not really all that noteworthy (1)

technoextreme (885694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267452)

To all you people rushing to say "Obscure comic company X did this in 1983 maaaan!"... just because some comic you read dealt with the issue of corrupt government before is not the same thing. This particular government is QUITE a particular government, and George Bush is named as the president in this Marvel series (according to TFA), which makes this a pretty specific attack on this very specific post-9/11 presidency and I think that makes this quite noteworthy. This isn't just about the fiction of it.
They are doing it in both universes so it isn't really all that noteworthy. I imnmediately thought this article was about the Ultimate Story Line which is a bit more drastic in that we piss off France, China, Russia, Syria, North Korea and Iran so much that they basically invade the Untied States with their own version of the Ultimates.

cpt america (1)

duke12aw (936319) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267342)

I dont know about everyone else, but im with Cpt. America on this one

Eh the whole Registration thing won't work (2, Insightful)

Ka D'Argo (857749) | more than 8 years ago | (#15267431)

Sure it's been done in the X-Men back and forth but in the Marvel Universe there's just too many uber-powerful characters to require Registration.

Scarlet Witch registers, ok cool. So the government now has her on file as a human (or humanoid really for the non human types as well) WMD. That's great. What the fuck does that do to stop a character, like old Scarlet, from going apeshit and destroying the entire fucking universe?

It's already technically done as well in another sense: villians. Example, take Thanos right. Villian, bad guy. Automatically you consider him a humanoid WMD right. Again same situation. Having him on file, does jack and or shit. So Uncle Sam keeps him on file, hell we'll go one step further, keeps GPS and the whole schebang on him 24/7. Yea when he gets a huge powerup like the Infinite Gauntlet, being able to scramble your military ain't shit. The only benefit it would have is if they notified heroes of such things apon villians. But it's not, since they are only doing Hero registration.

Either way it's somewhat of an old storyline that while a good one, seems to be a publicity stunt. Considering the current state of America, we're pretty unhappy with our government, our president and basically how restricted life has become. Leave it to Marvel to sellout for the all mighty $

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