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More Oblivion Re-Rating Fallout

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the talking-about dept.

279

The ESRB has a retort to the criticism leveled against it after rating Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Mature. The move has required Bethesda Softworks to pull all of the current stock of the game to relabel. From the GameDailyBiz article: "When we brought the topless female images to Bethesda Softworks' attention, they confirmed that the art file existed in a fully rendered form in the code on the game disc. The ESRB's investigation found that the mod allowed users to change the filename for the female character mesh in order to access the art file that was created by Bethesda. While true that a modification was required to access this file, the changes we implemented last year - expanding our disclosure rules to include locked-out content - were made to prevent these kinds of situations" Via Cathode Tan, who has his own commentary, an opinion piece by John Romero has yet another view of the complicated situation.

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movies v. videogames (4, Insightful)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271647)

Small amounts of nudity are allowed in PG13 movies. However, if you have the same sort of nudity rendered in a videogame, it gets rated M. I'm not entirely clear why the Teen rating doesn't cover this for games...

Re:movies v. videogames (3, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271696)

not even that there WAS no nudity in the game. Much like GTA you had to HACK the game to get the nudity in.

sure the skins where there, but they wherent accessable IN game.

ITs the same thing with comics and movie though back in the day, its the new political fallboy, give it 5-10 more years and it will be something else.

Re:movies v. videogames (5, Insightful)

jkmullins (643492) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271810)

I think much of the confusion from those unfamiliar with the inner workings of the industry is due to the way many games (and I'm assuming Oblivion as one) does character modeling. You can take a basic character model and layer different layers of clothing on top, it would be relatively easy for someone to slightly modify a texture, put it on an existing model, and call it a topless female. Sure, the model was already there, but it wasn't because they were putting nude females in. It was just there because it was easier to take that model and put different types of clothing models on that it was to make different models for each and every character in the game with a different shirt.

Pointing to that as an example of ill intent by Bethseda is just flat-out irresponsible by those who are arguably supposed to be industry insiders.

Decent underwear (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271934)

You can take a basic character model and layer different layers of clothing on top

Then why not put a sports bra or something on the basic character model?

Re:Decent underwear (1)

jkmullins (643492) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271962)

By default, they do have a bra of sorts on that I believe is just part of the texture. It's a simple matter to change that to a continuous skin tone texture.

Re:Decent underwear (1)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272295)

The bra is a clothing mesh that's overlayed on top of the (nude) body mesh/texture. That's what everyone is up in arms about, the body's texture already has the breasts painted on. Just remove the bra with a simple modification and you get polygon'd nudity.

Re:Decent underwear (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272010)

There is one, the titty-texture is a user created skin.

Re:Decent underwear (3, Insightful)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272015)

Because maybe they want to allow a mod for really skimpy outfits, that a sports bra wouldn't make possible?

My god, its 2006, why is nudity even an issue in media?

Re:Decent underwear (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272085)

Because that's one more layer being rendered. For every character on-screen. Every single frame.

The first rule of MMORPG is to conserve processing power. That means the code that gets used most often (combat and player body) needs to be as clean as possible.

Re:Decent underwear (1)

Jarlsberg (643324) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272120)

I agree with you, but I'd like to point out that Oblivion is not an MMORPG. That's part of its allure to many people (myself included).

Re:Decent underwear (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272584)

"Because that's one more layer being rendered."

No it isn't. You make the base texture with a painted on "bra" rather than nipples. It isn't an extra layer. This is exactly how the normal "naked" textures in WoW work - the nude textures were user creations for that game as well.

Re:Decent underwear (2, Insightful)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272630)

Um, yeah. What the hell was I thinking? :)

Still, that wouldn't have prevented this. As mentioned many other times already, the mod involves pasting a barechested male texture over the female body size. I'm sure the same thing could be done with any of the Resident Evil or Dynasty Warrior titles. Are they all to be relabelled "mature" now?

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272000)

This whole thing is silly. If you have to download a 3rd party hack to get the the nude content, I don't see why that should affect the ratings at all. What if the mod added the content, not just unlocked it? Should that affect the rating of the game to?

Why not just add a disclaimer: This game can be modded to include content not covered by this rating.

GET IT STRAIGHT (0, Troll)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272290)

Can we once and for all get it clear that the nudity IS in the game of oblivion from the start. The NUDE SKIN comes ON the DVD.

Geez, the john remero link gets it wrong as well.

Oblivion characters wear clothing. Far more so then in other games. The mesh of your character has other meshes on top wich form the clothing. Remove those meshes and voila, you got a naked character. Betsheda even included a skin for it.

The mesh is deformed (the tits look weird) because they are meant to be under clothes BUT it is there, naked titties. In the game as you buy it in the store.

It was NOT introduced.

When will people learn to read.

Re:movies v. videogames (4, Insightful)

idontgno (624372) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271726)

Not to be pedantic, (not intentionally), but reason standards aren't obviously consistent is because the ESRB is not the MPAA.

They're not the same organization, not controlled by the same people, not rating the same media, nothin'. They don't necessarily have the same leadership or employees.

To consumers, I'm sure, media is media is media, and consistent standards and enforcement should be obvious. But consistent standards and enforcement is not required and in the minds of some might be anti-competetive.

You expect consistency where there is no reason (other than in your expectations) for there to be any. The only place to enforce that "media-is-media" ratings consistency is government, and that's the LAST thing any sane consumer or producer wants.

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

BobPaul (710574) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271847)

They're not the same organization, not controlled by the same people, not rating the same media, nothin'. They don't necessarily have the same leadership or employees.

No, but you'd think that since video game ratings came later they would have based them somewhat off of the other ratings systems that existed at the time, namely the movie ratings system.

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

Bob of Dole (453013) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271950)

Parent have accepted that there is merit to movies.
Video Games are still in the same area as comic books (Clearly aimed at kids, even if they have an adult market), so they had to be rated more strictly. (Because even though the average age for gamers is somewhere in the low 20s, games are for kids. Period.)

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272119)

I'm pretty sure a few mainstream comics have had butts. Maybe dark, shadowy, terminator-style "artistic" butts, but it's a start.

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

twistedsymphony (956982) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272194)

last I checked the average age of gamers were in the high 20s/low 30s... I'd have to imagine the parents who are complaining about this stuff are either getting up there in age or weren't the gaming type when they were younger. I know plenty of people who are parents in their 30s and 40s who play games and think all the hooplah about the ESRB, government regulations, jack Thompson, and GTA are all ridiculous.

I find it's not until you get into the late 40s and beyond that people start thinking games are just for kids etc.

Nudity vs Violence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272072)

Personally I'd much rather my kid see nudity (and, in general, any legal behavior) than the illegal behavior (murders, assaults, etc) that occur in so many movies and games.


Is there any way of refaming the debate on the rating system so that legal activities (nudity at nude beaches; consentual sex) is OK, but illegal behavior (rapes, murders) gets the mature ratings?

Breasts must be kept secret! (4, Insightful)

rben (542324) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272159)

So much worry over kids seeing anatomy possessed by half of the population. It's about time we got over this puritanical BS.

Face it, any kid with access to the Internet will find a way to view naked women, if he/she so desires. Kids are smart. They have friends with printers. The secret is out, women and girls have different parts than boys do.

If you want to make sure your kids grow up to be well-adjusted, talk to them and explain things. Make sure they have plenty of parental attention and affection. Tell them they can always come to you and talk about things. Don't let kids learn all about sex from their peers.

Oh, and teach them that there are more important matters for people to worry about than whether or not electronic models have breasts.

Re:Breasts must be kept secret! (2, Interesting)

gutnor (872759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272601)

I was always wondering, what about commercials in the US ? ( no trolling, genuine question )

Here in Europe ( France, Belgium at least ) you have tits in almost *every* commercial on TV and at whatever time of the day.

Tits sell Orange Juice,
Tits sell shampoo and soap
Tits sell cars, milk, washing powder, food, ...

I also wonder why a game becomes M-rated because you *can* see some breast *if* you *patch* the game (and even then, nothing is done to erotise the situation, if you walk naked, nobody even look at you or say something) and not because you can kill human being with you bare hands, become a cold blood killer, summon demons, ... No I don't really think it should be rated M but at least I could possibly understand the second reason.

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

frosty_tsm (933163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272225)

Small amounts of nudity are allowed in PG13 (I think they rate it as "brief nudity").

However, having a character's model be nude constantly throughout gameplay is a bit more.

The others are right, logic doesn't play into it as well and people still have the image of video games being a kid's thing (and so they try to protect the kids).

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272456)

oh you mean like titanic (pg-13) had so little nudity. And my favorite, 16 candles (lots of American pie type nudity in the shower scene) has a pg rating?

Re:movies v. videogames (1)

TheRecklessWanderer (929556) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272489)

I think the problem was that the file was included on the CD/DVD and through some tampering of file names the images in question would be displayed. I don't think the ESRB would be so worried if you had to download a file and put it in a directory. Not much Bethesda could do about that, but the fact that the file was included on the disk was the problem. Sort of a due dilligence issue, I think. But when it comes down to it, it's Bethesda's fault for leaving the file on the disk in "rendered" format.

Draft Impeachment Resolution Against GW (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15271681)



A RESOLUTION

Impeaching George Walker Bush, President of the United States, of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Impeaching George Walker Bush, President of the United States, of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Resolved, That George Walker Bush, President of the United States is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the Senate:

Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of all of the people of the United States of America, against George Walker Bush, President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.

ARTICLE I

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has attempted to impose a police state and a military dictatorship upon the people and Republic of the United States of America by means of "a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations" against the Constitution since September 11, 2001. This subversive conduct includes but is not limited to trying to suspend the constitutional Writ of Habeas Corpus; ramming the totalitarian U.S.A. Patriot Act through Congress; the mass-round-up and incarceration of foreigners; kangaroo courts; depriving at least two United States citizens of their constitutional rights by means of military incarceration; interference with the constitutional right of defendants in criminal cases to lawyers; violating and subverting the Posse Comitatus Act; unlawful and unreasonable searches and seizures; violating the First Amendments rights of the free exercise of religion, freedom of speech, peaceable assembly, and to petition the government for redress of grievances; packing the federal judiciary with hand-picked judges belonging to the totalitarian Federalist Society and undermining the judicial independence of the Constitution's Article III federal court system; violating the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions and the U.S. War Crimes Act; violating the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; reinstitution of the infamous "Cointelpro" Program; violating the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, the Convention against Torture, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; instituting the totalitarian Total Information Awareness Program; and establishing a totalitarian Northern Military Command for the United States of America itself. In all of this George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

ARTICLE II

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. U.S. soldiers in the Middle East are overwhelmingly poor White, Black, and Latino and their military service is based on the coercion of a system that has denied viable economic opportunities to these classes of citizens. Under the Constitution, all classes of citizens are guaranteed equal protection of the laws, and calling on the poor and minorities to fight a war for oil to preserve the lifestyles of the wealthy power elite of this country is a denial of the rights of these soldiers. In all of this George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

ARTICLE III

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has violated the U.S. Constitution, federal law, and the United Nations Charter by bribing, intimidating and threatening others, including the members of the United Nations Security Council, to support belligerent acts against Iraq. In all of this George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

ARTICLE IV

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has prepared, planned, and conspired to engage in a massive war and catastrophic aggression against Iraq by employing methods of mass destruction that will result in the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians, many of whom will be children. This planning includes the threatened use of nuclear weapons, and the use of such indiscriminate weapons and massive killings by aerial bombardment, or otherwise, of civilians, violates the Hague Regulations on land warfare, the rules of customary international law set forth in the Hague Rules of Air Warfare, the Four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Protocol I thereto, the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment, and Principles, the Genocide Convention, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10 (1956). In all of this George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

ARTICLE V

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has committed the United States to acts of war without congressional consent and contrary to the United Nations Charter and international law. From September, 2001 through January, 2003, the President embarked on a course of action that systematically eliminated every option for peaceful resolution of the Persian Gulf crisis. Once the President approached Congress for consent to war, tens of thousands of American soldiers' lives were in jeopardy - rendering any substantive debate by Congress meaningless. The President has not received a Declaration of War by Congress, and in contravention of the written word, the spirit, and the intent of the U.S. Constitution has declared that he will go to war regardless of the views of the American people. In failing to seek and obtain a Declaration of War, George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

ARTICLE VI

In the conduct of the office of President of the United States, George Walker Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has planned, prepared, and conspired to commit crimes against the peace by leading the United States into aggressive war against Iraq in violation of Article 2(4) of the United Nations Charter, the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment, and Principles, the Kellogg-Brand Pact, U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10 (1956), numerous other international treaties and agreements, and the Constitution of the United States. In all of this George Walker Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George Walker Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

Cruel! (4, Funny)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271690)

Do you have any idea how cruel it is to include the word "Fallout" in the story title of an article in the Games section?

Zonk, expect rabid RPG fans after you for raising their hopes, albeit by accident!

Re:Cruel! (1)

revlayle (964221) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271788)

Maybe with Bethesda going ahead and pretty much accepting the M rating for Oblivion, maybe they'll go all out 'M' when (or perhaps, *if*, knowing the luck of the franchise) they release Fallout 3

Unbelievable! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15271754)

This is as if Snow White gets an R rating because someone splices in a few frames from a porn movie into one reel...

Re:Unbelievable! (0)

The Eagle Maint (862053) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271941)

No, it isn't, and I wish people would stop posting bogus analogies. Using your example, a fitting comparison would be if Snow White had some extra pornographic footage hidden on the DVD it came on (for example), and then someone found a way to get that scene to play in place of another in the movie. The problem is that the nude skin is present on the disc, which wasn't disclosed to the ESRB - not the modification itself.

Re:Unbelievable! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272127)

The point is: There ISN'T any nudity in oblivion in that sense. It is a male chest, that everyone who has been at a swimming pool has seen, and that has probably been in enough children's movies as well. Is is mapped to a female model, which it wasn't indented for, and the nipples line up with where they would be on an anatomically correct model.

Re:Unbelievable! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272546)

Way to spoil a nice Fight Club reference.

Re:Unbelievable! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272718)

Closer, but still not quite right. What you described was the hot coffee mod. What happens here is more like being able to change Snow White's clothing to perfect flesh tones for the whole movie.

Changing the rating (2, Interesting)

eleven357 (449450) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271761)

I would figure that the more violent a game was, the higher the rating would be on the game (mature, etc.) I thought violence was worse than a naked body of a woman. What truly is the worst evil? Violence or Naked Women? I think that the ESRB needs to get their priorities straight.

Re:Changing the rating (5, Insightful)

bluemeep (669505) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271854)

In America? Naked women. A boob is a thousand times worse than seeing a human being gutted, ripped in half and having both chunks set on fire. Make sense? Not really, but that's the way this country works.

Re:Changing the rating (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272149)

And yet the same people who rant and rave about breasts would undoubtedly turn around and call a country forcing women to wear veils or otherwise cover up another part of their body an "oppressive, sexist regime".

Re:Changing the rating (2, Informative)

Surt (22457) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272249)

It makes a certain kind of sense if you understand the right viewpoint:
Sex content => sex crimes against women
Violent content => violent crime

Which is worse in this country? According to the stats, sex crimes are far more common than violent crimes (assuming you don't give the violent crime category credit for the violence typically involved in sex crimes).

Re:Changing the rating (1)

Saanvik (155780) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272606)

You're right, but I just want to clarify what you're saying so that everyone understands it.

Here are the ideas you have to accept as fact for this to make sense.

  1. People who are exposed (via tv, movies, video games, etc.) to violent content are more likely to commit violent crimes.
  2. People that are exposed to nudity are more likely to commit sex crimes, or behave in other sexual ways that are seen as deviant to the norm and thus, a problem for society.
  3. It's more important to stop sex crimes and deviancy than it is to stop violent crimes.

If you accept those ideas as fact, then keeping people from seeing naked bodies in a video game is more important than keeping people from being exposed to violence.

IMO, it's idiocy, but it's important to understand the other side's position.

Re:Changing the rating (3, Insightful)

Slime-dogg (120473) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272507)

The worst form of evil is an erection caused by the sight of a nipple on a breast. This is far more evil, for instance, than an erection caused by seeing human beings ripped in half, and having both chunks set on fire.

Re:Changing the rating (2, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271929)

What truly is the worst evil? Violence or Naked Women?
Honestly, it's Violence towards Naked Women.

Obviously it depends on the context, but on the whole, you can stir up some trouble by mixing women (clothed or not) and violence.

Take a game, replace all the killable Monsters/Nazis/bad guys with women and watch the fury boil over.

Locked out content? (2, Interesting)

AgentDib (931969) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271780)

This is pretty interesting. The ESRB does not refute Bethesda's claims that the violence and gore was exactly what they had detailed, so this makes the violence and gore rationale an initial oversight by the ESRB and not a fault of Bethesda.

However, if the nude female images were present and simply "locked out" by Bethesda then we have pretty much the same story as the Hot Coffee incident. IMO the ESRB exists solely to enable parents to feel more confident about buying games for their children, and the idea that the ratings could be changed simply by "unlocking" something in the game does a lot to destroy this confidence.

Honestly, are either of these incidents really that different than if Nintendo were to implement nude characters in super mario bros 3 that was unlocked through an a-b-a-b-a-a-a code?

Dude. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15271827)

I don't know about you, but the idea of a fat naked plumber really makes me feel scared and want to run away. Please don't mention super mario bros 3 and nudity in the same sentence again.

Re:Dude. (1)

TommydCat (791543) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271862)

If this bothers you so much, just think of what it could do to younger impressionable minds!

Re:Dude. (1)

bluemeep (669505) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271875)

Naked Mario is the least of your problems. Think of what it could do to the little goombas!

Re:Dude. (1)

Burlap (615181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272044)

but... arnt goombas naked already?

Re:Dude. (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272148)

To be fair, they could put Mario in a permanent goomba shoe for modesty, and I'd totally buy it.

I am the cutest invincible shoe rider ever! Mario! Mario! He's in the ULTRA green SHOOEEE!

Re:Locked out content? (1)

SirTalon42 (751509) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271876)

"Honestly, are either of these incidents really that different than if Nintendo were to implement nude characters in super mario bros 3 that was unlocked through an a-b-a-b-a-a-a code?"

You don't get through the 'lockout' by entering a code, you get 'through' it by downloading a mod from the internet for that exact purpose. And that mod could of just as easily include new meshes/textures of nude body parts as 'unlock' the texture in oblivion (the texture is used for layering so that the armor will actually look somewhat correct)

Re:Locked out content? (1)

AgentDib (931969) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272264)

Certainly the "real" answer is more involved parenting.

However, both the hot coffee and the oblivion mods can be done yourself without downloading anything from the internet. The patches are just executables that "punch in the codes" for you. If something exists in game through a developer easter egg, I think that is a fundamentally different scenario we are talking about then simply a modding community.

If the issue is whether the ESRB should be required to evaluate Easter Eggs, I guess I would have to say yes.

Re:Locked out content? (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272716)

Um, i'm not sure the Oblivion "nudity" qualifies as an easter egg. Its just the way they built the character models. They made baseline nude bodies with interchangable bits of clothing - usually various armors or robes - with the default being a character's underwear. All someone did with the mod is make the default = no bra, thus exposing the female characters "breasts". And I use breasts in quotations because they hardly qualify considering the skin texture used is unisex. Which is why people say the nipples look weird... they're male!

Anyways, I think theres a big difference between discovering a hidden mini-game, and discovering you can remove an object from a game for 'cheap porn'. Namely, premeditation. The ESRB is telling the whole industry that manslaughter = murder, and we're all going to suffer for it. :(

Re:Locked out content? (2)

BuCKsWorld (579831) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271928)

Honestly, are either of these incidents really that different than if Nintendo were to implement nude characters in super mario bros 3 that was unlocked through an a-b-a-b-a-a-a code?

Back in the day there was a game for Genesis (I forget the name) that had a code that let you see brief nudity. It was by Naughty Dog, and if you held down certain buttons as the Genesis was turned on, the Naughty Dog logo would be replaced by a picture of a topless woman. Pixelated cartoon boobs at their finest. That situation (and the one you describe) are much different from the Oblivion/Hot Coffee situations. There is no magic code to enter that shows you these nude models (or the "hot coffee" scene). You literally need to change the game files to see them. It's not something you're just going to come across in the course of the game. In fact, you can't. It's impossible without these "hacks" (or whatever term we're using for them now), which need to be downloaded and applied yourself.

If it really was a case of "Oh shit, I hit up up down down and everyone was naked all of a sudden", then I could see a justification for a lot of this. Much of it anymore seems like preemptive over-reaction as a cover-your-ass-just-incase move.


-Chris

Re:Locked out content? (1)

rcamera (517595) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272534)

back in the day, there was a game for atari (custer's last stand) which showed nudity AND violence against women. there was no code for this content - it was the point of the game. can you imagine the media coverage if a remake of that were to be released?

Re:Locked out content? (1)

rcamera (517595) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272555)

silly me - the game was called custer's revenge

Re:Locked out content? (1)

BaronHethorSamedi (970820) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271998)

Honestly, are either of these incidents really that different than if Nintendo were to implement nude characters in super mario bros 3 that was unlocked through an a-b-a-b-a-a-a code?

Tried your lousy code. Nothing. Thanks for getting my hopes up.

Re:Locked out content? (1)

Chowderbags (847952) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272488)

The ESRB rated Metroid as E. Is this E material: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Metr onosu-2.png [wikimedia.org] ?

The ESRB also rated Super Metroid as E. Is this E either: http://www.metroid-eu.com/supermetroid_endings/sam usfront1.gif [metroid-eu.com] ?

If you want to say "oh, but those are only on for a few seconds", I say so what? You can see them over and over if you want. Sure, they aren't M rated by any stretch of the imagination, but they're ok anyone 6 or older? If they were looking through the lens of today, I'm not sure they'd appreciate those.

Re:Locked out content? (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272617)

I just want to know how Samus stuffs all that hair in her helmet.

Re:Locked out content? (1)

Hoknor (950280) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272703)

I want to say they are both entirely E rated unless while I was not looking it became illegal to take a six year old to a swimming pool or the beach and see a woman in a bikini.

Complicated Situation? (3, Insightful)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271849)

TV commercials around here at least after 10pm have been featuring a lot more sultry "friend finder" commercials on broadcast TV, and lightly censored 'girls gone wild' commercials on basic cable.

Far more offensive than pixellated boobies. Hell, the kids are likely on the internet in the first place to find out about the hack. If kids aren't already corrupted by all of the boobies [and worse!] on the internet, some scantly clad model isn't going to harm them.

Re:Complicated Situation? (1)

KazerSoza (727306) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272550)

"....corrupted by all of the boobies...." Thats my kind of corruption! ;-)

Does anyone know the background? (4, Insightful)

JensR (12975) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271852)

I can't believe they intentionally put in a topless model. What I expect is this: The model was intended to be rendered together with a separate model covering the top, like additional pieces of armour that they want to run physics on, or a bra that they want to have changeable. By swapping the model with another one that doesn't have these additional features you see the base model. Sorry, but to emphasise it: We (=game developers) can't take responsibility for data files we didn't create, or for modifications to the game code that change object behaviour. So what about this disclaimer: Game Experience may change when using 3rd party modifications ? I mean, there is already the disclaimer Game Experience may change during online play, because nobody can control what other players in an online game say or do.

Re:Does anyone know the background? (2, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271922)

I think thats a bit rash (I'm a game developer too.) If the content is in there (ie, fully rendered nipples), even if it should never be seen during normal program flow, I think the rating should take that into account. If its unlockable, it will eventually be accessible to the world at large.

The bigger issue at play here is why is everybody such a fucking prude. Its womans breasts, for crying out loud, what a freaking repressed society. Games should be rated for violence, and graphic sex, but boobies that can't be seen without a hack? Holy fuck, what is wrong with parents?!

Re:Does anyone know the background? (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272066)

Well for some reason you can't even say fart on the radio anymore, even though every 3 year old is running around saying it.

Re:Does anyone know the background? (2, Interesting)

brouski (827510) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271927)

My understanding is it's the male bare chested texture laid on the female mesh.

Re:Does anyone know the background? (1)

6ame633k (921453) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272357)

I hope it was a shaved chest - or eewwwwww!!!!!

Re:Does anyone know the background? (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272320)

If the model was just there for the shape/physics of things that go over it (bras, armor, whatever), why couldn't it just be all-white? I'm guessing that an all-white female form wouldn't spark much outrage, it'd be just like a store mannequin. You don't need to see the color of nipples when you're deciding how armor will fit over something. (And yes, some store mannequins have "nipples" - but they're not painted!)

(I think it's silly to slap an M rating on something for breasts - but I also think that in the current political climate game designers should really be more careful if they don't intend nudity.)

This will change things... (2, Insightful)

krotkruton (967718) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271888)

And I hope it erodes the ratings systems. If Oblivion gets an M rating for this nonsense, forget about what it means for Bethesda for a minute and think about what it says about the M rating? It sure changes the way I look at M rated games. Will this just shift all of the ratings up a level? If it does, then how much will these ratings mean to people if a game based on Sesame Street gets bumped up to a Teen rating because it depicts Oscar as homeless (or some better analogy that I can't think of, but you get the point)?

This is getting crazy (3, Insightful)

thebdj (768618) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271920)

The next thing you know they will want to change any game where you can install custom skins to an 'M' rating simply because someone can download a custom model and have naked women everywhere. What I love throughout all this is that it isn't about violence (despite what the ESRB said) and solely about some "sexually explicit" content that by default is not accessible in the game. I guess I never realized how horribly ugly the female human form is...

While not necessarily right (and maybe not on point), it is absurd to think that the difference between 'T' and 'M' is going to make a difference in who buys these games. Now, the kids (I actually do not know any kids who play ES IV) just have to get their parents, who have shown total disregard for what their children are doing (see complaints about movie, television and game ratings...and the recent "myspace scare"), will blatantly ignore the ratings and purchase it anyway.

I would love to see some game makers stop using the ESRB all-together. Like the MPAA movie rating system, it is completely voluntary and even if a few places won't carry an un-rated game, I am sure plenty of legitimate video game retailers will be more then glad to sell such a game. Unfortunately, this probably will not happen because I would imagine that some of the larger retailers would be the ones refusing.

Re:This is getting crazy (2, Insightful)

MerlynEmrys67 (583469) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271987)

Again - a subtle difference. The game SHIPPED with the skin, it was just a matter of renaming the file. I have no problem with the ESRBs descision here... it was undisclosed content (it was on the distribution media). I would have a HUGE problem is someone completely reskinned a game, and based on content that the publisher has NO control over - the game was re-rated...

Re:This is getting crazy (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272111)

I bet alot of games use this approach though, so that different clothing can more easily be applied to the model. Suddenly just about every 3d game goes to M because you could mode the clothes away??

Re:This is getting crazy (1)

6ame633k (921453) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272275)

Maybe they needed a nude skin for character customization - just like in life - sometimes game characters are naked under their clothes. Anyway, this is waaaaay less offensive than Hot Coffee - I don't even see a comparison. Hot Coffee was straight up sex - which means at least one programmer and one animator was involved. Whereas changing skins in a game - anyone with photoshop and game dev. experience can do that. Excuse me, I gotta play my modded version of the Sims - they are all naked!!!

Re:This is getting crazy (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272356)

Big exception: it was the male skin. Guys' nipples are apparently ok, unless you badly wrap them on a female mesh.

Re:This is getting crazy (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272394)

"I would love to see some game makers stop using the ESRB all-together."

Bad idea. We have the ESRB to stave off the government from creating their own regulatory body.

Game should be rated M anyway -- it's got a lot of gore in it.

Can anybody corroborate this rumored explanation? (1)

trauma (62841) | more than 8 years ago | (#15271997)

It's been said on a gaming forum I frequent that the content in question is in fact the texture for a bare *male* chest (complete with the standard-issue male nipples), which when intentionally misapplied to the female model via this mod results in a somewhat believable representation of a topless female.

Any truth to this? If so, it pretty much confirms the idiocy of the ESRB with regard to this whole situation.

I'm curious why World of Warcraft isn't R... (1)

Avillia (871800) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272017)

When it handles clothing the exact same way.

Perhaps if we all slapped on 'Experience may change in online play' and then had the half a kilobyte nude skin streamed down to the client on every load, we wouldn't have to worry about the goddamned ESRB.

Re:I'm curious why World of Warcraft isn't R... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272237)

The base image for female characters in WoW includes a bra and panties.

Re:I'm curious why World of Warcraft isn't R... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272733)

Actually, if you play with the WoW model viewer ( a 3rd. party tool ), you'll find that the underwear can be made invisible. You will see an "anatomically incorrect" (no nipples, etc.) version of the character that doesn't include underwear in this mode.

This is technique is obviously swapped in when a character changes to clothing such as a backless dress (or the dreaded "woolies" legwear), which does exist in the game, so you don't see their undies. This seems very similar to what Oblivion uses the built in "topless" female for.

So basically, if you wanted to be extreme, yes you could rerate WoW as "M" if you really wanted.

Romero (of all people) misses the point entirely. (1)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272023)

From Romero's blog: "What's the point of this all this? That modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping."

Change the old slogan to "John Romero is going to... bitch." He really seems to have missed the entire point of the issue, seeming to place blame on modders in general. Rather surprising, considering where he might be had "Doom" not been moddable and therefore immortal.

Re:Romero (of all people) misses the point entirel (2, Insightful)

Mortice (467747) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272168)

I figured another slashdotter would comment on that part of Romero's post.

Modders are not screwing the industry; if anything is in this case, (and I really think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion) it's the fact that a depiction of female anatomy which the majority of users will never see is enough to warrant a change in rating. It. Is. A. Nipple. Jesus.

Neither are modders under any obligation to "help the industry". Game studios may well release data in the hope that mods will help their game sell more, but I doubt that very many modders have as their primary motivation a desire to help the studio, and I doubt that anyone but the most blinkered suits really thinks they do. Except Romero, of course.

I can see it now.... (2, Funny)

Burlap (615181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272027)

Sorry Dr Seuss, but we have to rate your new book M for sexual content, seems that some kid can go get a picture if a topless women, tape it in your book, and be exposed to nudity.

OT Dr Seuss (1)

nb caffeine (448698) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272219)

I'm pretty sure there won't be a new Dr. Seuss book, being that he (aka Theodor Geisel) died 15 years ago

So... (2, Funny)

jasen666 (88727) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272074)

If I create a patch that makes Minnie Mouse and Daisy Duck naked in a Disney game, will the ESRB re-label that game as "M" and force Disney to pull it off the shelves?
ESRB are morons.

The question everyone is asking is... (2, Funny)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272083)

If I use Photoshop to give our our president a giant bare of woho's will they slap GW Bush with a mature rating?

Oh no (2, Funny)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272181)

Naked human beings in non-sexual settings in a video game.

Oh no. The end of our civilization is near.

And it won't be because of topless toons in some video game.

Teen: Let's Beat it To Death While We're At It (4, Insightful)

SloppyElvis (450156) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272211)

This topic is getting a bit tired, but the fact that this "retort" misses the greater issue is compelling.

1) Play Oblivion for 1 hour, you'll find zombies with their guts hanging out. The player is rewarded for bashing them MANY MANY times as they spray blood all over the walls. I don't see how Bethesda could have "hid" this from the ratings board - it shows up within minutes of play.

2) Talk to the various characters in the first town in the game, and you'll find out there's a "secret" guild that will let you in if you MURDER someone. In fact, you are very often rewarded for criminal activity in Oblivion. Going to jail is REQUIRED to complete at least one of the quests in the game (probably more, I don't know).

3) A nipple shows up in a downloadable mod, and OMG! change the rating to "Mature".

This isn't about Oblivion being rated "M", it's about the reason provided for the change. "More gore than initially disclosed" is ridiculous, because the game is chock full of gore and it's central to the gameplay itself. When the ESRB initially reviewed the game, did they even play it? My take is that Oblivion probably should've been rated "M" from the start. The game contains mature subject matter and it was no secret, plain and simple.

Are American Teens exposed to graphic violence through other means? Yes, certainly.

Are young children? I am reading the classic book, Farmer Boy, of the famed Little House on the Prarie series to my Kindergartner. In this book, the "older boys" in the school house gain reputation for "thrashing" teachers into submission with their fists. The replacement teacher is heralded for subdueing his attackers with a whip.

Does that make it a "good thing"(TM)? Nope. (see also: "Shikata ga nai")

Can a Teen process violence in entertainment and separate such depictions from the morality requisite to be a good citizen? Yes. "Mortal Combat" was a popular morality target in my teenage years, yet I never attempted a "Finishing Move" on any of my schoolmates, and I've grown up to be a good citizen by most accounts.

Can responsible, involved parents allow their brood to slash video game foes for fun? Yes. I enjoy such entertainment, and I'm sure my young'uns will too. Human beings are violent (see also: "history of civilization"). It'll be my decision to make concerning their maturity approaching such subject matter.

If my teen sees a booby, will all my hard parenting work unravel? God, I hope not. That would surely mean I'd done a terrible job educating my own on the birds and the bees. Believe it or not, I'd rather my kids look at boobies than bash skulls. Interest in sex is not unnatural (see also: "World Population").

ESRB claims the change is due to a lack of disclosure. Under normal circumstances, that would be an acceptable reason in my mind. However, the gratuitous and obvious violence in Oblivion calls into question the criteria by which the game was rated IN THE FIRST PLACE. The ESRB lacks credibility, and this debacle won't help that issue, that is certain.

Re:Teen: Let's Beat it To Death While We're At It (2, Interesting)

6ame633k (921453) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272321)

I havn't gone through the process in a while, but I am pretty sure the ESRB does not play the games. It is up to the developer to send the "most offensive" game footage for viewing (Via VCR or DVD) - so if that footage was omitted or gameplay added at the last minute they would not have seen it. If you consider how long it can take to play a game I doubt they have the resources to play through all the games that are submitted each year.

Re:Teen: Let's Beat it To Death While We're At It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272458)

When I was working for Nintendo they required a complete play-through on VCR with all secret and bonus areas for submission to the ESRB. So if it takes several hours you'd submit several tapes, and I think you even had to show that the end of one tape matches the beginning of the next one.
So it could depend on how your publisher wants to handle it.

Re:Teen: Let's Beat it To Death While We're At It (2, Interesting)

SloppyElvis (450156) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272668)

I didn't know that.

It would be interesting to see the actual submission footage. It seems pretty clear that Bethesda wants to stay out of the fray on this political issue, so I doubt they'd leak it, but it would shed light on all of this for sure.

The resource problem is an interesting one. I'd wager that if they enlisted "general public reviewers" to preview the games prior to release they'd get an army of volunteers who'd do it just to get early copies of games. I realize software is generally not ready prior to release and things can get put in at the 11th hour, but perhaps it could help "normalize" the ratings by using a plurality of reviewiers.

Astounding (3, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272223)

pull all of the current stock of the game to relabel

Congratulations. Short of airdropping copies of the game over each major american city, there is no other possible action that would ensure people previously fence-sitting on the original version of the game will go through considerable effort to obtain a "real" copy.

HYPOCRACY (4, Insightful)

Frobozz0 (247160) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272309)

You can hack and slash defenseless citizens, steal your way to financial independance, and support demon-like creatures to enslave mankind.

Seeing a pair of tits seems a bit trivial, yes?

To the hypocrites at the ESRB who seem to think violence is fine and nudity is a crime... rethink your policies, and rethink your hidden agendas. Nudity is not sex, which could be misconstrued as a mature theme. Every female on the planet has a vagina and breasts. Every male has a penis. These are anatomical features. Science. Fact. They are not the subversive agendas being pushed by conservatives to have us back in the social dark ages.

I am a player of Oblivion and I don't think for a second that any of the fantasy provided by this game is not enough for a 13 year old to grasp. By rating it mature, we're taking a modification to a game and making a big mountain out of a mole hill.

Let's boil this down, folks. I'd be much more worried about my 12 year old kid murding all the townfolk, supporting the daedric lords, playing out their virtual life as a vampric character. Not that there is anything wrong with the fantasy of any of those, but I'd want to make sure they understood the difference.

What needs to happen (2, Interesting)

DorkusMasterus (931246) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272314)

is that the ESRB has to convene and decide to have an extra rating modifier of some sort to not only describe the game as shipped, but to have a rating for "possible modification" and for "online gameplay".

Statements of this sort already exist in a small sentence on most online games, where they'll state "Online Gameplay Experience May Be Different" or something (I don't recall the exact wording.) But the point is that ESRB would be much more effective with something like this.

I don't think developers and publishers will have a problem with that rating, and the ESRB gets all the info they want out there to cover their butts. I mean, to have something like "ONR" for Online Content Not Rated or something so parents can see that you cannot strictly regulate what happens or is said or written during online play, or a "MNR" for Modifications Not Rated.

It takes care of every instance of these types of issues. Developers and Publishers can know that their game will be rated as "intended" and ESRB gets to put in notices regarding the possibility of (or known issues regarding) more "mature content" in online or modded play.

The rest of the world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272353)

is laughing their ass off once more.

Coming soon (to the USA): War on virtual nipples.

The ESRB made a mistake in the first place. (2, Insightful)

tmauer (952690) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272381)

Having played the game for a while now I don't understand how this game was given a teen rating in the first place. The graphic nature of the violent content warranted the M rating from the beginning. Bethesda was apparently up front with the ESRB on how graphic the violence was in the game. So this is just the ESRB trying to cover its' ass.

As a parent this is the kind of game that I would want to know my teen was playing. I probably would not mind them playing it, but I would want to talk to them about it.

The whole naked mod thing is silly. If the logic they are using were to be followed then my web browser needs an AO rating. The ESRB should have just owned up to over looking the violence.

Where is the line? (1)

MrTester (860336) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272406)

If user changes can cause a rating change, then doesnt every game with chat or VOIP now have a requirement to find a way to stop profane language unless they want a Mature rating?

If not, where is the difference?

mmmm Children. (2, Funny)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272435)

"Today we stike a blow against those who would allow our children to expose themselves to pornography. By requiring labotomys for all children at the age of 2, we can finally prevent them from being victims of the exploitation industry known as Media, not only will this step prevent them from being able to access pornography via brain implants or on the Internet, it will prevent them from content that describes nudity or violence, or comprehending adult language. While the previous eyeball removing and castration programs proved insufficent, we believe this is the ultimate solution to the problem of child exploitation."

"Children, we are not doing this 'to' you, we are doing it 'for' you."

I need the US Gov't to raise my kids! (4, Insightful)

SloppyElvis (450156) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272455)

Best quote from TFA: "the current rating system is drastically flawed and here is yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children" [California Assemblyman Leland Yee].

That is exactly what I need for my kids, the US Gov't writing some helpful laws to this end. Perhaps they could help by also removing those extremely violent newscasts on the cable and network news outlets. The newspapers too. They are FILLED with reports of violence and war that are to the detriment of my children. Can you believe the SCHOOL in my hometown also teaches children about sometimes very gruesome and unsettling violence in history class, and I need laws to stop this from harming them. I can't do it all!

A good law to draft would be to transport all of my children to some sort of government educational facility, where they can learn to serve their country by putting down the violent people of the world through judicious use of lethal force. In this Utopian society, there would be no sex, because it is "dirty" and "very bad", and the law would provide men in jack boots to catch the teens "in the backseat trying to pick her locks", and they could "send them back to mother in a cardboard box".

I need help with the music out there these days too. Everyone knows the only good use for so-called "Heavy Metal" music is in psychological warfare.

As for games, we need wholesome, morality-based games. America's Army could teach my kids about responsible engagement, for instance. In that game, everyone plays as Americans! They only shoot "terrorist-looking" people, the way it should be.

And offensive movies should be re-cut. Take the terrific job done on "Brazil" (the love endures all ending). That movie was a real downer before some fine studio exec had it corrected.

My God! (1)

flyonthewall (584734) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272462)

For crying out loud, these things are just pixelated tities....

States are starting to make the Victorian era look promiscuous

Bah!

Go ahead and blacken out the nipples in a patch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272500)

Go ahead and blacken out the nipples in a patch, Bethesda, and I'll just as quickly download another user mod that re-adds the textures.

Breasts are perfectly natural, folks.

Why is nudity considered mature? (2, Insightful)

misleb (129952) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272538)

Seriously, small children not only see breasts every day, they often SUCK on them! What exactly are we protecting children from by censoring nudity (breasts in this case)? Now, censoring gratuitous sex I can almost understand, but simple nudity? Come on.

-matthew

why does that matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272632)

The content is not in the game by default. True, you might be able to see a nipple or two if you mod the game, but then again anyone who knows enough to hack a game to see boobies, probably already knows where to go to find (better) porn.

Disconnection (1)

Tikiman (468059) | more than 8 years ago | (#15272726)

According to the article, Bethesda does not deny that "mature" content was on the disks. From the ESRB:
"When we brought the topless female images to Bethesda Softworks' attention, they confirmed that the art file existed in a fully rendered form in the code on the game disc."
That is to say, the ESRB has been consistent about judging the content within the game itself, not the content added by modders. This is consistent with the stance taken on Grand Theft Auto. The issue at present is should content on a game disk not accessable by playing the game through normal means be subject to rating. Suppose a "Strawberry Shortcake" PC game had a hard-core porn movie on a subdirectory in the game disk, and suppose that content were not accessable through the course of playing that game. Through a 3rd party tool, in this case a standard movie player, this content can be viewed. Would you slap "E for Everyone" on the box of that game? Personally, I think it is reasonable to rate games based on all the provided content - the game itself, box art, and any content provided not explicitly part of the game itself.

Unreal Tournament nude content (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15272737)

I discovered that there is nude content waiting to be enabled in unreal tournament 2004. You just have to change some bytes in a texture...maybe 20,000 or so...and suddenly the female character has a nude chest. Oddly, you can do this to the male characters too! Just by inserting some bytes, which represent skin tones, in the texture in a particular order the characters are suddenly nude.

This is just hard for me to believe that some data could be changed in a game and the character becomes nude! Why doesn't it reject my nude textures when I put the data in! I took a snapshot of my ass, converted it to a digital image, and put that data on the texture and now it shows my ass too! I am simply flabbergast over this! Epic needs to pull all of their games and remove the ability to display textures on meshes. Additionally, I believe the major graphics card manufacturers should be held liable for enabling the simulation of nudity simply by pushing some bytes to their graphics card.

Its just amazing what these people get away with. I've been mortally injured too! I intend to sue the camera manufacturer because it let me photograph my ass. I am also not happy with the mirror, not because it shows me nude, but because the reflection is offensive!
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