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Red Steel Impressions Roundup

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the bang-bang-slice-slice dept.

50

Ubisoft is working on one of the more 'adult' titles slated for the early days of the Wii launch, and there are lots of folks with opinions. From IGN's Red Steel hands-on: "Another important element to the gameplay, which is closely related to the story, is the idea of choice. In Japan, the Yakuza are not senseless killers -- they will only do so when forced into the position. With your girl in possession of the Yakuza, you'll need to become part of the culture, and earn opposing groups respect to get where you need to be. So you'll have to make choices with both your sword and your gun; you may want to perform a headshot or slash a guy's throat, but you can also force them to surrender. In the Yakuza this mutual respect and honor, this admission that one is beaten, is a real thing." More views below, if you Read More.

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50 comments

BONK THE ZONK! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15310450)


The third "Impressions Roundup" article in less than two hours.

Slow news day?

Or slow news editor?

You decide. Please cast your votes below.

Re:BONK THE ZONK! (0, Offtopic)

flipper65 (794710) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310520)

I believe it is more of an 'IGN cash for traffic' scheme. Zonk obviously has a boat payment coming up.

Re:BONK THE ZONK! (1)

Freexe (717562) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310524)

I think Zonk is a good editor,

He must get alot of fan boy crap, and it's E3 so x10 the normal. Yet still, it's stuff I want to read (unlike your waste of time comment)

Re:BONK THE ZONK! (1)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312389)

Same here. Why do you bitch about more content? At the very least the games section is constantly being updated and, since this is E3 time, there are even more things to report.

Leave Zonk alone.

I want this game! (4, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310523)

from the article:
There are breaks in the gameplay where cutscenes roll, but they will be untraditional in that you will be able to look around as you please, and even interact in some cases.
*cough* Half-Life *cough*

But seriously, the Red Steel videos are impressive. That sword duel part was really exciting. There is another first-person swordfighting game, Maken X for the Dreamcast, and great as it was, its problem was that no control pad could ever have the precision for a "real" swordfight. I think Red Steel may end up being the Wii's killer app.

Re:I want this game! (1)

Palshife (60519) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310654)

*cough* Half-Life *cough*

Well, in defense, 'untraditional' still fits here since, while it isn't the first, it certainly isn't the norm.

I'm hella excited about Red Steel.

Re:I want this game! (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310711)

Well if there wern't breaks your arms would KILL you. I'm guessing/hoping there are serious plot elements here where you spend 80% of your time negotiating/exploring and 20% fighting.

Re:I want this game! (1)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311137)

I'm seriously hoping this won't become an issue. I can't imagine anyone making such a huge fuss over a little exercise, but i do live in America.

Re:I want this game! (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311313)

Ok, YOU try holding your arm up infront of you with no support for more than 10 minutes.

Re:I want this game! (1)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311532)

i perfectly understand the point that is trying to be made here, and i won't say that there will be no difficulty in doing so, but it's all about conditioning. give yourself a week with that game and you'll be supporting your arms for a great deal longer than ten minutes. besides, your arms aren't fully extended. they'll remain somewhat close to your body. your elbows will eventually stick to your body for support. it's not that much of a work out because it will mostly be your forearms and triceps doing all the work.

Re:I want this game! (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311664)

Either way an intelligent designer (no that that type of intelligent designer) will understand this issue though and design their games with breaks though. I've seen clips of people playing game that where for the most part they can sit and rest their arms on their legs just making small hand movements. But then periodically they must stand up for serious battles. Otherwise people will quickly tire of your game.. A game that people don't realize they are excersising is great. A game people quit because its too much excersing is a bad thing (atleast in this country).

Re:I want this game! (1)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311696)

Obviously the game will have breaks. Do you think that they'll just throw sword fight after sword fight like a fighting game? ...

That would be *awesome*! The Wii will make fighting games much more epic because when you get to the big boss you will actually be _tired_.

Re:I want this game! (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311747)

I've played tennis for 4 hours at a time whimp. :)

Re:I want this game! (1)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312085)

ok, but you take short breaks right? it's quite impressive that you do, but i think their concern stems from the general gaming popoulous which isn't very athletic. i myself do heavy lifting for about 45 mins straight but that's because my body is used to it. when i stop working out for a month(or more)and go back to it, the first three days are hell.

Re:I want this game! (1)

Quino (613400) | more than 8 years ago | (#15314621)

I originally shared your concerns -- using the new controller seemed like it might turn out to be a workout.

After seeing more clips of the games (esp. Red Steel), I have to say I'm a heck of a lot less concerned. If someone were to offer to spend time teaching me how to paint, for instance, the last thing I'd be worried about is how tiring it might to hold and manipulate a brush for hours at a time.

Maybe a better analogy might be an orchestra conductor moving his stick around in terms of movement. And if you can be 60 and still conduct for a couple of hours, I'm sure most of us can handle the little bit of extra movement vs. a standard controller.

The way I see it now, as long as one is having fun, and the motion required isn't exactly jumping jacks I think that exhaustion will not be an issue.

In fact, I now actually wonder if, given human biomechanics and all, manipulating a "stick" in a more natural way might actually mean less sore fingers, wrists, etc., that it might turn out to actually be less tiring ... (maybe a stretch).

I'll admit one thing -- I can't wait to try it out for myself to see what it's really like!

Re:I want this game! (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 7 years ago | (#15321444)

Try playing tennis without ever letting your arm rest to your side inbetween sets. Your arm will literally detach itself from your body and strangle you to try and stop the agony.

Totally OT, but.... (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312834)

Ok, YOU try holding your arm up infront of you with no support for more than 10 minutes.
10 minutes is nothing. /old drum and bugle corps guy

Re:Totally OT, but.... (1)

Clockwurk (577966) | more than 8 years ago | (#15314243)

Haha, I always felt soo bad for Troopers because they had to hold their contras up the whole time during retreats.

Re:I want this game! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15318215)

You'll get used to it, softie.

Re:I want this game! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15310809)

Ubisoft did the 'interactive' cutscenes in XIII. I really like when cutscenes are done in the game engine, but giving me control during them seems to always turn me into an asshole and takes me out of the game. In XIII, people would often talk to you in the cutscenes, meanwhile, I'd be trying to get eye-level with the NPC's ass, or (for no reason) I'd try to hide behind a bush or a tent, while the NPC just spit out her script, never taking a moment to ask "what the fuck are you doing!?" Maybe I'm the only one that does this sort of thing?

Also from the IGN article:
Your first reaction, not surprisingly, is to wield the controller like a real gun, dramatically pointing it about as if you were in a poorly directed action movie...Once you come to grips with how all this works, you start to realize that using subtle movements with your wrist, or playing from the hip works much better.
So, to those people who thought the Wii would be too physically intense to use, it sounds like you shouldn't have a problem if you're able to use a mouse without breaking a sweat. And if you do break a sweat while using a mouse, I suggest you excersize a little more, fatty.

Re:I want this game! (1)

Zoshnell (573838) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311075)

I sweat because I'm afraid of mice, you insensitive clod! The fact that my sweat is gravy has no bearing on my fattyness!!!!

Re:I want this game! (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312271)

while the NPC just spit out her script, never taking a moment to ask "what the fuck are you doing!?"

Ubi claims that the NPCs in Red Steel will notice if you goof off and react insulted. They also claimed that they will include masters and such who will react insulted at the slightest sign of disrespect (even expecting you to take a bow using the controller).

Re:I want this game! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15312545)

you start to realize that using subtle movements with your wrist, or playing from the hip works much better

You know, I want it to be hard to make jokes about Wii name, but geeze ... you can't set up a masterbation joke any better than that...

Re:I want this game! (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310916)

"There is another first-person swordfighting game, Maken X for the Dreamcast, and great as it was, its problem was that no control pad could ever have the precision for a "real" swordfight."

personally, i will stick with daikatana and superfly johnson. thank you very much.

Re:I want this game! (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312078)

Oh, that one too. Amazingly, I've never played Daikatana. I'll try to find it some other time, I heard it's actually much better than its reputation!

Re:I want this game! (1)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311928)

Apparently, in Red Steel, the NPCs get pissed off if you try to leave while they talk to you. It's not like HL or XIII where you can fuck around and they'll keep talking.

Re:I want this game! (1)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15313087)

I'd imagine eye-contact and speaking at the right time is very important culturally, especially in the Yakuza. Yeah I could see turning around while someone is talking you being a fast way to die. Then again there may be times when you are insulted and must react appropriately to keep your respectm maybe there IS a time to turn around when someone is talking to you, but listen for the sound of a sword being unsheithed or a gun coming out of hostler.

Re:I want this game! (1)

prockcore (543967) | more than 8 years ago | (#15313216)

*cough* Half-Life *cough*

They're different than Half Life. They said that if you wander off while someone is talking to you, they'll get angry at your "impudence".

Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (2, Interesting)

AK__64 (740022) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310678)

Nintendo claimed it was targeting the Wii to a wider audience, old people, little kids, so on. Will this title advertised all over Wal-Mart's electronics aisle, and the demos running at Best Buy drive all but the geekiest gamers away?
I think Nintendo needs titles like this to avoid being relegated to the casual market only, but I'm wondering how they will market it when they are also trying to sell to non-gamers.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (1)

AlexanderDitto (972695) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310749)

Easy: it will be sold as the most realistic gun shoot-'em-up game hack and slash people with a sword game ever. What's more realistic than actually aiming at the screen and pulling a button-esque trigger?

I highly doubt the honor and ability to force others to surrender is what's going to sell this game to non-gamers. Instead, the flagrant physically realistic violence will. ...are anyone else's Jack Thompson senses tingling? I sense... disgusting, slimeball joy. Eew.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (3, Insightful)

JustJon (731538) | more than 8 years ago | (#15310834)

Simple. Different commercials for different audiences.

You run commercials for Red Steel during wrestling and other male oriented programming. You run commericals for more casual games during more female or generic audiences, like American Idol. Advertise the kid oriented games during cartoons and other childrens programming.

Multiple advertising plans for multiple audiences.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (3, Insightful)

danbeck (5706) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311059)

"I think Nintendo needs titles like this to avoid being relegated to the casual market only ..."

Good Lord, more of this garbage from people about how Nintendo needs senseless violence, hookers and people killing cops in order to "break away" from the casual gamer. Go back to playing your GTA LLVIII and I'll handle the casual gaming for you.

The casual market (read Nintendo DS, et. al.) is KICKING THE FUCKING SHIT out of anything around. The 'casual' market is what made a title like the Sims one of the #1 selling games in history. The casual market has more money in order of magnitudes than the hard core gamers that want their "mature" titles. Someone just needs to find the next Sims or the next "Sims" console for these people to spend that money on.

Now the question is, has Nintendo done this with Wii? Time will obviously tell.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (1)

twistedsymphony (956982) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311404)

There's nothing wrong with variety in your titles...

I can't wait to play this game... I also can't wait to play the new Mario and the new Zelda. Nintendo catches a lot of flack because they don't really offer a variety, for the most part the titles on their system are equivalent to a Family film in terms of their content. They obviously don't NEED a variety to keep themselves in business, but as a gamer I really appreciate it when they offer me some adult oriented titles to round out their catalog. Lets face it the Wii is an awsome console and you wont get the Wiimote experience on anywhere else. I think it'd be a terrible shame if we weren't able to use that tech across the gamut of gaming experience and applications both family oriented and adult oriented.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311083)

The game itself may not appeal to kids, or those who prefer nonviolence (or less violence) in videogames. That's OK. It shouldn't affect the console's sales.

Nintendo will surely be advertising the next harry potter game, or animal-crossing-ish games, etc, for other demographics.

I would love to see someone roll their own fencing simulator for the Wii. ;)

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15311838)

Casual and Hardcore have almost nothing to do with the actual content, or the presentation of the content, it is more about the quantity of games played and their knowledge of the industry. You will have both Casual and Hardcore gamers which play everything from Animal Crossing to Grand Theft Auto (in fact many Hardcore gamers will have played both games). Games like America's Army have always been a pretty Hardcore game, not because they're graphically violent (there no blood or gore in AA) but because they require endless ammounts of time in order to be good enough to compete online.

Now, not every game Nintendo has attracted is designed to lure the non-gamer crowd; games like Zelda: Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel, Mario Galaxy and Dragon Quest are desinged to target people who are already gamers. Wii Sports, on the other hand, is (supposed to) targeting non-gamers; people who would have difficulties moving their character and swininging the Wiimote at the same time. The fact that Wii Sports recieved so much time at their press conference shows that Nintendo isn't targeting non-gamers in a token way; at the same time, the focus on Zelda and Red Steel shows Nintendo is still focusing on existing gamers.

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (2, Insightful)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312877)

isn't Ubisoft in charge of marketing Ubisoft games on Nintendo's platform? So simply put, Nintendo is targeting Wii to a wide audience. Ubisoft (being mostly "hardcore" games maker) is targeting the hardcore audience, presumably to get a foothold as the "killer app". On a side note, When's the last time you heard a casual gamer say "killer app"?

Re:Effect on Nintendo's target customer base? (1)

Gabesword (964485) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312898)

I would imagine that the bulk of the promotion for the game can be handled by Ubisoft, no Nintendo needed. Nintendo can show a bit of the swordplay in commercials with a large montage of games but they don't need to promote the game on it's own.

DBtS (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15311616)

I wonder, does anybody else remember the game from Interplay called "Die By the Sword"? I remember playing this in the late nineties wasting many hours in the arena knocking limbs and heads off of other humans, kobolds, orcs, and ogres.

It's main claim to fame was its sword control system. It allowed you to directly control a melee weapon with the keyboard, mouse, or joystick. It included force-feedback effects, which is how I played the game. Nothing like feeling the clash of your sword against a shield, or the resistance of someone's neck as your blade cut into it... ;)

Too bad I couldn't get it to work in any NT based system (2000 or XP), but I was heavily reminded of "Die by the Sword" from these Wii articles.

Re:DBtS (1)

ThrasherTT (87841) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311824)

DBtS was the first thing to pop into my head after seeing the Red Steel info a while back:

"Holy crap, this controller thing would be PERFECT for a Die By The Sword remake/sequel!"

Re:DBtS (1)

lexarius (560925) | more than 8 years ago | (#15311995)

Yeah, DBtS was a fun game. I only had the keypad to play it with so it was tad awkward.

Re:DBtS (1)

DavidLeblond (267211) | more than 8 years ago | (#15314355)

Die By The Sword would KILL on this system. I remember this is the first game (at least that I remember) where you could beat someone senseless with their buddy's leg.

Re:DBtS (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 8 years ago | (#15315839)

Same here, DBtS was the first thing I thought of after hearing about this game on the Wii. I wonder if those guys are still alive out there. I remember a sequel to the game crashing in flames, with them leaving a statement that they'd like to upgrade the tech for a new game someday if fate allowed it.

Re:DBtS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15319302)

Was made by Treyarch, no?
I believe they are still in business.

Its true! (5, Funny)

CarnivoreMan (827905) | more than 8 years ago | (#15312039)

The Yakuza are respectful. On an episode of The Simpsons when one of them accidently came flying through a window, he bowed before heading back out to rejoin the gang fight. He could have just killed everyone in site, like ninja's sometimes do, but no. He took the time to show the respect and bow. The're sweeties!

Re:Its true! (1)

RoloDMonkey (605266) | more than 8 years ago | (#15317418)

The Yakuza are respectful. On an episode of The Simpsons when one of them accidently came flying through a window, he bowed before heading back out to rejoin the gang fight. He could have just killed everyone in site, like ninja's sometimes do, but no. He took the time to show the respect and bow. The're sweeties! [sic]

If Chuck Norris [chucknorrisfacts.com] had been thrown through a window, just bowing would have killed everyone in the room!

Yeah... (0)

BTWR (540147) | more than 8 years ago | (#15313499)

It does look awesome.

I played it at E3 (5, Informative)

Zovreign (974466) | more than 8 years ago | (#15317164)

The demo needs more polish, the game still looks like a dreamcast/gc game graphics wise [not from screen shots but actually physically playin it], the control is neat, but the whole experience came off as some sort of cheesy virtual cop clone. Not in that its a shooter on rails, but its a shooter with limited exploration. Maybe the final game won't be like this, but at the Wii booth, you started in a building, go through some simple sword fighting tutorials [where the first guy is just standing there letting you him them. The second guy you fight with the sword actually attacked you back, but its nothing like what was shown in the wii demo videos.

After some sword fighting you spend the rest of the game going down narrow alleyways where guys pop up ala virtua cop, and you have to mow them down. The enemys were shaded kinda odd, their lighting and shading didn't fit the environment they were in, you could be fighting in a panchino palour, and the environment can be full of red and purple neon lights, but the guys wwere being shaded bright tan or yellow with a really harsh rim light, making them look like they were just cut and pasted there.

I'm really trying not to be mr. negative here, and I'm sure I'm going to get a ton of people calling me a poo poo head, but it was one of the weakest titles that was in the living room subsection of the wii booth [yes I'm counting Tennis and the Conductor game in that assessment].

So hopefully the final product will actually be a good title, but as it stands right now, it feels like hype.

Re:I played it at E3 (2, Insightful)

justchris (802302) | more than 8 years ago | (#15323301)

I agree it needs a lot more polish, but I'm not sure if this version is anything to judge by. It had the feel of being mostly a controller demo. I doubt that demo will make it into the game intact.

Re:I played it at E3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15332275)

I also played it at E3. The game is astoundingly ugly on an HD screen (extreme banding and jaggies, and all of the enemies have this weird white corona - they really look like cardboard cutouts). While I suspect it would look better on an SD screen, I can't explain why this game looks so bad when Zelda, Metroid and Mario looked so good.

Anyways, I also agree that the demo level was very linear and limited, but here are some other notes about the game:

- The game detects the orientation of the Wii stick in your hand, so you can tilt the stick to hold the gun "gangster style". This has the effect of allowing you to look around faster, but makes it a bit harder to aim.

- Slashing the with sword is very intuitive and (IMO) fun. It felt really good to make a cutting motion across the screen to control the slashes. Only slashing motions were available in the demo. The presenter said that stabbing motions would be implemented in the final game. Hopefully, the developers use it to add depth and strategy to the swordfighting, since it felt rather shallow.

- The blocking mechisism was a bit of a let-down. You don't perform the block yourself (as with the slash). You simply indicate that you would like to block by twitching the nunchuck. It was neglegibly different from just pressing a block button and doesn't allow you to perform different types of blocks. The demo was also exceedingly forgiving with the block (you could be really early or really late). This made the sword-fighting trivially easy, and again, shallow feeling.

- When you engage in swordfighting, your POV locks on to the enemy (like in Zelda, except you have no control over it). This allows you to circle each other (in theory: the first AI was pretty dumb, he let me walk right behind to slash him across the back. He barely even moves). I assume that this means the game won't allow you to face multiple opponents with swords.

I enjoyed playing RedSteel, but I think it needs a lot of polish for it to become a truly good game. Currently, I think it relies a lot on the novelty of the controller. It shows promise of good things to come, but I'm dubious that Ubisoft will be able to make it a masterpiece by 4th quarter (I hope to proven wrong, of course. :)

Re:I played it at E3 (2, Interesting)

Castar (67188) | more than 8 years ago | (#15339132)

I agree, and I'm worried that this will hurt the Wii. Since Red Steel is one of the highly anticipated games for the console, if Ubisoft messes up (like in the demo, which I also played at E3) many people will write off the console for similar games. Nintendo's first party games showed that the controller worked well for a lot of stuff, but Red Steel just left a bad taste in my mouth. I hope Nintendo makes them polish it a bunch before release.
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