Can Peer-To-Peer Finance Work? 261
Dotnaught writes "Two companies, Prosper and Zopa, appear to be convinced that social networking can be combined with borrowing and lending. They're intent on using eBay as a model for listing and bidding on loans without the involvement of a bank. Call it peer-to-peer finance. There are already some 800 groups on Prosper ready to loan money to specific causes, such as the Apple User Group, 'a lending group for those wishing to purchase either a Macintosh or Apple iPod.'"
Existing Finance (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, how many bad debts can these peers handle? Large corporations have enough cash to handle bad or delayed debts.
Unlike other successful P2P services, this model is entering a market where existing businesses are making a living out of it.
Re:Existing Finance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2, Funny)
Or a Bond (Score:2)
How about some C or D rated bonds? We'll just add a 21st century buzzword "Peer-to-Peer" to make it sound cool and catchy. I also have a bridge in b
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
That's a good start, but I'd look more at the shared-ownership mortgage for a model -- this is where a broker puts a house buyer in touch with an investor who's willing to finance (usually) half of the cost of the house, in exchange for the ability to collect rent from him on half its value for some period of time afterwards. There are some brokers who will arrange this kind of scheme with individual investors, matching investo
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
1. require membership (member of a trade union, church, etc),
2. are geograpically regional, and
3. don't require or enable any relationship between the lender and the borrower. (the credit union institution is the middleman.)
Perhaps in the US, but the UK equivalent (the Building Society) generally has none of these restri
Re:Existing Finance (Score:5, Interesting)
Although it might not be as large a benefit to investors, it could increase competition in an already competitive market and help borrowers to secure better loan terms. Hopefully, this could also help out people with poor credit ratings as there are more potential businesses to loan them money.
Re:Uh, not really... (Score:2)
People who have subpar credit scores. If they were to go to a regular creditor for a LOC they could easily approach 30%.
Geez, my Sears card is drifting up, on average a quarter point a month. Of course with a zero balance on it (I pay in full every month) they're not making any money off of me. I did have a balance on Sears at one point and it pissed me off to be paying 26.24% one month, 26.49% the month after that.
And go ahead
Similar to Angel investors vs VCs (Score:4, Interesting)
Two obvious examples are
And it's hard to underestimate the stupidity of some lenders. I imagine there are plenty of people with a lot of money who will seriously consider lending to a high-school kid to get an XBox in the same way that they consider lending to former Nigerian Royalty to help them get millions out of there.
Re:Existing Finance (Score:3, Funny)
Yay, venture capitalists!
First of all, how many bad debts can these peers handle? Large corporations have enough cash to handle bad or delayed debts.
They are trying to spread risks around. They also are assuming a 4% default rate. I don't know if that is a feasible goal, but they are claiming that the "community" they are building, combined with off-line credit inquiries, will get them to that number.
Unlike other successful P2P
Re:Existing Finance (Score:5, Insightful)
If you aren't completely risk-intolerant, it looks far better a place to put money than a bank for a small investor.
For a borrower, I don't see much advantage, though the terms may be slightly better. I think the lenders are what will drive its success, since having the money to lend will, itself, make it attractive to borrowers.
Zopa lets you limit your exposure to any given borrower to as little as 10 pounds, Prosper does something similar with a a minimum of US$50. Automated aggregation allows spreading the risk.
Successful P2P services have done that, too. "Buying and selling goods" is, after all, something business were making a living at (even using auction models) long before eBay.
In a sense this is an eBay system for buying and selling money, which actually can work far better since its a uniform, fungible commodity that allows spreading the risk. (Its a little bit different, since the auction service here also covers fulfillment, which isn't necessarily the case with eBay, but that's better for users, since it offloads much of the risk of dealing with a difficult person at the other end.)
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
3 words, "Line of Credit" once upon a time many (more) credit cards gave interest on positive balances. I would be very interested in a single account that I could get close to the same rate for money to loan and borrow. But also directly building credibility for borrowing from my loaning history (ok you build credit history allowing Credit Cards.)
Because I have a house, I do have a line of credit NOW that lets me ge
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
Re:Existing Finance (Score:4, Interesting)
Speaking as someone who is committing money to a community bank [communitywiki.org] with roughly $2,000 in it, I think the thing is that people trust their own culture, and are more willing to accept risks and lend money within their own culture. People tell each other things amongst themselves, that they do not necessarily tell the banks.
If you lose, it was "for the cause," anyways. If you win, you've aided the cause.
The bank might not even be willing to talk with you.
I know a girl, she's going to college. She needs $50,000 for 4 years of loans. The banks aren't talking with her, and her parents are opposed to her going to college out-of-state. (Read: The parents want to keep her near, to better control her.)
If my culture were just a wee bit more organized, [communitywiki.org] I'm sure we'd have her in her preferred college. (UCSD, I believe.) As it is, we only have $2,000 amongst ourselves.
If only she were going to college in 4 years...
You may also want to check out the concept of Internet Bonding. [communitywiki.org] Basically, if you can look at all the things a person does online, says online, follow the ups & downs in their life, and so on: You can do interesting things with that. You can better evaluate risk. So, if you're operating within your culture, things get a lot easier on you.
In the case of this girl, she has an easy time explaining to us who she is, where she's coming from, and so on: You can see her last few years of work online. "Trustworthy!" we say, "Get that woman her CS degree!"
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2, Funny)
You lost me there.
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
Well, sort of. See, the first year is capped aroun $3k, the second around $4k, then you can max out near $6k per year until about 180 semester hours (after which ALL federal financial aid, including grants, is gone until you graduate). (These numbers are for a state school, perhaps the ceilings go up
Re:Existing Finance (Score:2)
Say buddy spot me a 20? (Score:2)
Just because we use email, or IRC or the phone to communicate does not really change anything.
Re:Say buddy spot me a 20? (Score:2)
Would it make any difference if you could see the person's last 5 years of activity online, as well as place of residence and information about where they work, can see all the forums they post too, know that you can hound them on said forums, and have given them a lengthy legal contract to sign?
Would that [communitywiki.org] make a difference?
If only you can book those loans as revenue... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If only you can book those loans as revenue... (Score:3, Insightful)
Amazing! (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the drawbacks with banks et al is the insertion of the thick layer of bureaucracy between the lender and the lendee; its expensive, time consuming and impersonal.
If you have direct contact mechanisms like this, people find information far more accessable and that gives them a chance to take advantage of opportunities they wouldn't even have known about before.
It also gives people a chance to browse speculatively (bit like you do on Ebay).
My fear is that the State will barge in and regu
Re:Amazing! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Amazing! (Score:2)
Me or someone else? and if it's someone else, and they get to decide whether or not I can borrow money from another person, isn't my personal freedom being reduced? "for my own good", of course!
To be honest, I know well I can trust the main banks, and I am aware I take an increasing risk if I go elsewhere. If I've got half a brain, I'll turn to independent specialists for advice, just as for example I recently had to buy a fridge-freezer and bought a group
Re:Amazing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Study history. The ONLY reason you can ay that is because of regulations. Look back at the 30s- respected banks went out of buisness as much as anyone else.
I'm not competent to tell what banks are trustworthy. I'm not competent to tell what food won't give me botulism. I'm not competent to tell what products will do what they're supposed to and what won't. I'm not competent to understand cutting edge medicine. I may be able to pick up 1 of these, but there's a limited number of hours in the day- I need to keep up on my primary profession as well. And I'm at the high end of the intelligence curve, I'm far more capable than the average person. The average man would be completely and utterly fucked.
The government regulations are the only thing that enables me to go down to the store and have faith in my purchases. Without that, the economy falls apart. Government regulations are a good thing. Regulations on banks are a damn good thing, they ensure my life savings are safe. There's a reason why prior to regulation most people kept their money under their mattress or someplace similar- they couldn't trust banks. The world is a better place for these changes.
Re:Amazing! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Amazing! (Score:2)
Re:Amazing! (Score:2)
The smallest set of components you need to insure tha
Re:Amazing! (Score:2)
Not at all. The beauracrats consult with biologists, economists, etc. They are far MORE qualified. WHen it comes to the FDA, most decisions are made by actual scientists. They're one hell of a lot more qualified.
The smallest set of components you need to insure that food won't give you botulism is (1) you having the ability to sue a store that
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
isn't this Nigerian 419 (Score:2)
seems like this will lead to loan-sharking on the lender's side and Nigerian 419 scams on the other end. I just need a small loan to get started on big $$$. Either way, they break your knee-caps.
Re:Amazing! (Score:2)
Right, because not regulating the banking industry back in the 1980s worked out so well for the all the Savings and Loans...
Welcome Back (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't want (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I wouldn't want (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine if you can log on to BeatTorrent, hook up with a few peers living near your debtor, and get them to show your debtor some muscles.
credit checks? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:credit checks? (Score:5, Informative)
There are indeed credit checks. Users have their credit scores checked, and their 'ebay applications' show their rating, broken down into AA, A, B, C, etc. Users also attach checking/savings account when they create their accounts, and monthly collections are automatic. Obviously that doesn't preclude the possibility of defaulting on the loans, but it helps.
Also, there are affiliated collection agencies for defaulted loans. Just as banks outsource collections to agencies, so can you. I've actually recently signed up as a lender, and will be trying things out with a small amount of money in the next week or so.
Please be careful! (Score:4, Insightful)
The borrowers post what they need the money for, and their stories are identical to the stories I hear every day about why a tenant's rent money is unavaiable/late/whatever. There are some people out there who actually will come up with the rent money. There are some who really intend to come up with it, and believe that they can come up with it, but are unable. There are some who never intend to pay for what they consume and are just good at making up stories. Please, please be careful!
Be sure to spread your risk across many borrowers. When (not "if") one defaults, you won't lose your entire investment.
Be careful of people who, within the last few months, just had a major financial hardship (divorce, medical problem, job loss, etc.) I'm not talking about someone who had the problem 2 years ago and has his/her life more or less back on track... but the FICO score isn't up to where it should be yet. I'm talking people who are in he midst of financial turmoil. It's very tempting to take pity on those people because they are in trouble. Just make sure you are playing with money you can afford to lose. Their FICO and D:I may look ok now, but it's possible that their defaults on their obligations haven't caught up with them yet.
Before you lend any money, please become extra familiar with what the various FICO scores mean and what the debt to income ratio means. Those are the only verified pieces of financial info that you're going to get from the site. A good credit score but high D:I is a very risky loan. Be careful.
Make sure you're getting a good rate on your loans! You can get a 10% average return with an S&P 500 Index [yahoo.com] investment. What return are you getting on your money that you're lending out, when you factor in the default rate? Remember, these loans are not FDIC insured. Credit cards are charging these folks a minimum of 18%, and credit cards are not stupid. Make sure you're getting a huge return.
Good luck! I hope it goes well for you!
Re:credit checks? (Score:3, Informative)
It's not new, just a different slant... (Score:2, Interesting)
Not new, but different. Interesting idea nonetheless.
End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:4, Insightful)
In the real world, by the way, you see banks adopting the same strategy -- Bank of America invests boatloads of cash in getting its name out in the various Hispanic communities, which are typically underserved when it comes to banking services.
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:2)
Nice. Do you have details or references for this?
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:2)
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:2)
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:2)
Sadly, the data don't agree [PDF alert]. Studies show that racial minorities pay, on average, substantially more interest on loans than whites do.
Umm, there *is* no data for the scenario the other poster described, because the market for lending is heavily constrained. At present, it's constrained by regulation. In the past, it was constrained by the difficulty of bringing large numbers of small lenders and borrowers together with enough information for them to make smart choices.
I don't know if this
Re:End-run around anti-discrimination statutes (Score:2)
It's like the requirement that alternative currencies be pegged to the US dollar: "Good luck." Just imagine World of Warcraft struggling to peg Gold to the dollar. And every other virtual world, every other virtual currency. (Is World of Warcraft Gold taxable income? Are Lindens?)
Or it's like trying to tax trades on Warcraft. [arstechnica.com]
It'll attract the attenti
OMG! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, this is exactly the group I'd lend to -- a bunch of status-seeking wanna-be yuppies who want the cachet of conspicuously consuming an Apple product but need to borrow the money to pay for it. Uh-huh. I'm all over that.
Re:OMG! (Score:2)
look at numbers... (Score:3, Informative)
If $1000 loan is granted at prosper with a 10% interest rate, it'll make about $153 over three years if everyone pays up. That includes the 0.5% that prosper takes for fees and stuff. It's still lower than I expected. $1000 at 10% over 3 years, and I instantly think $300. I looked into why and it's because the principle is paid off so quickly. The $1000 number is getting smaller every month and there's not much left to earn interest by the start of the 3rd year.
If that same $1000 sits in a 3 year CD paying 4.75% (ING's current rate on a 3 year cd) it can expect to make about $149 without any of the risk associated with the prosper loans. Interest penalties might apply if it's cashed out early.
If the $1000 stays in an ING account that has 3.8% interest, you'll stand to make about $120.
I really like the idea of it, and it has the potential to make some extra $$ if you have some cash laying around not doing anything. But the Risk Factor is huge compared to the alternatives I came up with. The fact the money is still accessible at ING is worth the 33$ IMHO. Even if the money isn't needed for three years, a CD returns a few bucks less, and can still be cashed out in an emergency situation.
Re:look at numbers... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison. Since you get the money in your account as soon as the payments come in, unless you re-issue new loans, its equivalent to withdrawing part of the interest from a bank savings account every month and letting it sit around as cash.
Yes, CDs feature automatic reinvestment, and with Prosper you have to manually reinvest. But comparing the two without comparing them at full reinvestment is not especially useful.
Re:look at numbers... (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno. Zopa, maybe, given the rates some people have quoted from their. There seems to be little on prosper below 10% and lots up to 20%+. Even adjusting for the expected default rates in the various credit categories and the fees, Prosper allows you to realize far better returns than any CD rates I've seen quoted recently, though your personal risk toleran
Spam/Scam (Score:2)
Re:Spam/Scam (Score:2, Interesting)
And it takes relatively few people to poison that well. If an investor charges 6% and could get 5% elsewhere, there's only a 1% margin keeping him in the game at all. If only 1% of the applications are scams, the entire enterprise falls to the ground.
It may be working today for the same r
Clueless about what drives p2p (Score:5, Informative)
But the very idea ignores what drives P2P: very low costs to the provider of service. Lending money is nothing of the kind -- there's a big default risk. You'd find P2P s3x to be easier!
Re:Clueless about what drives p2p (Score:2)
Natural evolution of loan sharks (Score:3, Insightful)
Banks are highly regulated for a reason and offer strong protection to folks on both sides of the fence (investors and borrowers). New, completely unregulated financing options are really recipes for disaster and abuse - particularly in this day and age.
And, even though pieces of it will be very legitimate and well-intentioned, a few bad apples will bring down the whole scheme. Stay away (unless you want your kneecaps broken).
Re:Natural evolution of loan sharks (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see why you claim this is obvious; since there is credit rating information available to the "lenders", I don't see why bad credit would be favored (this presumes that the "lenders" will have a preference for return that makes them more risk tolerant, or that good credit borrowers will avoid the site for some reason. Neither assumption seems
Ok so about leechers... (Score:2)
members have to make at least £25,000 (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:members have to make at least £25,000 (Score:3, Informative)
I'm failing to quickly find comparable figures for the UK.
GlobalGiving.com (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey, why lend when you can give?
Global Giving [globalgiving.com] is the charitable expression of the same idea. Instead of giving at the office to some anonymous organization, why not fund: Renewable Energy to 20 Peruvian Communities [globalgiving.com], Improving Computer Literacy in Afghanistan [globalgiving.com], Information Technology for Uganda Medical Students [globalgiving.com], or whatever else floats your boat [globalgiving.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Re:GlobalGiving.com (Score:2)
I would hate to be in your shoes when you retire.
"Ahh... time to break open the nest egg... these thank you notes must be worth something by now."
Re:GlobalGiving.com (Score:3, Informative)
For a solution which is somewhat in-between, there's organizations which provide low-interest microfinance loans to entrepreneurs in developing countries, helping them towards econmic independence. One neat-looking organization is Kiva.org [kiva.org], which enables individuals to make such loans. Worldchanging has a neat article [worldchanging.com] on organizations like Kiva and how they're helping things in the developing world.
A relevant item from Kiva's FAQ:
Why loans and not (just) donations?
Over the la
can it work? Works in my home-town.. (Score:2)
I see this as an extension of the same concept - only giving everyone involved more control as the technology (web) permits it. Letting everyone control every nickel and dime within a traditional credit union just isn't feasible.
Seems to work here.. can't see many reasons why it wouldn't work o
It's a great idea! (Score:3, Funny)
I have personally invested a hefty sum in a Nigerian financial institution run by the daughter of the country's former minister of finance. She contacted me personally (what banks can match that kind of personalized service?) and personally arranged for my account. I sent her my retirement savings and she will soon start sending me my massive returns. I will soon be rolling in obsene amounts of money!
Nigeria is the future of finance I tell you!
Lock down your mailboxes (Score:2)
Some of this stuff is insane. There are loan requests out there that read like a nigerian 419 scam. But who knows maybe calls to God will give other people better rates.
And I look at all the poor idiots with credit card debt up they are trying to pay off, locking themselves into loans at high interest rates when they would be much better off either calling up their own credit card company & brokering a deal for payment & a reduced
Re:Lock down your mailboxes (Score:3, Insightful)
Er, why? Its certainly no easier to scam money with identity theft from this system than traditional lenders working through the mail or the net; you might convince people to give you better rates this way, but that doesn't matter if you are using identity theft to skip out on payments. I can't see any way this is more vulnerable to identity theft then traditional lending. Its certainly more vulnerable to exploiting gullibility in other ways
headline in 2 years (Score:2)
One risk not added in (Score:2)
risk attitude (Score:3, Interesting)
I would rather lend my money to HSBC. For one of the first standard online saving
account [hsbc.co.uk], you can earn 4.75% AER (and it is not even fixed for 6 months).
The interest rate setting mechanism is kind of a double auction market. You, as either lender or borrower, can set your offer rate. The "market" rate is the one when both meeting somewhere in the middle. I mean most lenders are not really serious at this moment. They are likely to throw £10 in order to test how the system work. But, causually, you can see how people evaluate risk. For this type of unsecured loan via a potentially run-away-overnight "bank", my risk premium is way higher than 10%. Even if I trust the whole system, given a default rate of 3% quoted somewhere in their website, a risk-neutral lender will at least demand an interest rate of the "risk-less" rate (the return that you deposit in a reputable regular bank) + the default rate + their annual handling fee, which means at least 4.5+3+0.5=8%.
Re:risk attitude (Score:2)
Weird Math, but roughly the right answer (Score:2)
Why add the default rate -- is that some kind of conventional "rule of thumb" (intuitively, it seems like it works as a rough approximation so long as both the default rate and the risk-free r
Re:risk attitude (Score:2)
OK, Sell me. (Score:2)
I have a credit union where I can deposit into an FDIC insured money market at 4.32%. If I like, I can purchase CDs for upwards of 5% if I'm willing to lock in (which I'm not given the historicly low rates, but that's beside the point). If I'm willing to undertake more risk, I know some funds that deal in mortgage-backed securities. No FDIC insurance, but returns more than 6%. Nevermind those, though. Let's just think about how the credit union works.
The CU borrows money from me at 4.32% and loans it
Prosper wants your SSN for authentication (Score:2)
Re:Prosper wants your SSN for authentication (Score:2)
Re:Prosper wants your SSN for authentication (Score:2, Informative)
From the borrower side, SSN is what links you to your credit report and credit rating, like it or not. For the credit reporting agencies, your SSN is an authenticator.
Re:Prosper wants your SSN for authentication (Score:2)
And that's where they lost me. First, I don't want to give out my SSN.
Without your SSN, Prosper can't look up your credit rating, and can't issue 1099 statements reporting your tax liability for money that you make by lending.
Prosper isn't using your SSN to authenticate you, they're requesting it because they can't do business with you, practically or legally, without it.
I'm a lender on Prosper.com (Score:3, Insightful)
Prosper does a lot of the credit checks for each loan. Beyond the credit score they track current lates and 90 day lates in the last 7 years on people's credit report.
If the loan does turn out to be a deadbeat the loan gets turned over to a collection agency and Prosper handles the paperwork involved to ding the person's credit.
Prosper also allows you to spread your risk by investing small amounts(no less than $50) into lots of loans.
Why should banks be the only ones getting 10-15% returns on loans.
Lenders are also starting to form informal groups (some are invitation only) where they research the borrowers and score them for the high risk high return loans.
I'm also collecting stats at http://www.savagenumber.com./ [www.savagenumber.com]
Money in action (Score:2)
This as an investment strategy just seems to be like trying to beat the system. Big banks have all dollars share equally in gains and losses. Basically
This is a disaster (Score:2)
You can make an equal or greater amount of money in a CD or even savings account with the same money, and have zero risk, AND have access to your money if you need it.
Why the HELL would anyone give their money out to a stranger at fairly high risk, and have no way to
Re:This is a disaster (Score:3, Interesting)
There is a clear risk/reward relationship here. The highest 3 year CD rate I can find is 5.4% APY. I have $1000 into Prosper at an average rate of 16%. That is far higher than any bank or CD rate (because the risk is greater). Is it a good investment? Depends on whether or not all my loans get paid back in full. At $50 a loan I can afford for a couple to default a
Re:This is a disaster (Score:3, Interesting)
Start with $1,000. Loan it out at 16%. Start getting monthly checks.
Take a loan for $1,000, at 8%. Loan it out at 16%. Get more monthly checks.
Repeat.
The limit is when your credit rating goes so low because of the outstanding loans that you cannot qualify for another loan to reinvest. Or, when scammers take the whole system down through massive defaulting.
Still, seems like a good business
Re:This is a disaster (Score:4, Insightful)
it already does (Score:2)
Sounds like the Bond Market to me (Score:2)
If I want to loan money to a particular company, I buy their newly-issued bonds.
Personally, I don't see small-scale loans being of interest to most small-scale lenders. The risk of default is just too unknowable. It's a lot less risky to take the already-mentioned credit-union approach, where "lenders" pool their money and borrowers borrow from the common pool.
This is better because it's more democratic (Score:2, Interesting)
This system is a better way to invest not just because the rates of return are probably higher. (I note a lot of people pointing out interest bearing bank accounts and CDs, but the average prosper loan is three times those interest rates. The default rate will only be known with time, of course.) This way of investing is better because your money is less likely to be the tool of some manipulation of society or even dire
Islamic Rules Against Usury: It Already Does Work (Score:2, Interesting)
Jaws (Score:2)
Re:Trustworthiness on the internet (Score:2)
Re:Trustworthiness on the internet (Score:2)
More correctly, the article only refers to one of them using credit reports. But both Prosper [prosper.com] and Zopa [zopa.com] expressly claim on their own websites to use credit scores (from Experian and Equifax, respectively), though Zopa claims to assign their ratings considering additional factors [zopa.com] in some cases.
Re:Adverse Selection (Score:4, Insightful)
So while prosper.com is devoid of teaser rates, I can see why someone with good credit would choose a fixed-rate, fixed-term installment loan from there over a teaser 0% offer that could become 30+% for the cost of a lost piece of mail or one two many credit pulls when shopping for a car loan.
Re:Not as good as it sounds for lenders... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is no different than the risks you are exposed to in a non-insured (money market, etc.) investment account (though the variability in those accounts is probably greater; they face the same catastrophic risks), or even a regular insured bank account once you are beyond the FDIC insurance amount (though there you face only the catastrophic risk, with t
Re:Okay... right (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Okay... right (Score:2)
First test this fails is credibility. Mostly due to jumping on a hyped up technical term from one industry (P2P, IT) and attempting to use it out of context in a different industry (Finance). I smell snake oil.
Re:Okay... right (Score:2)
Re:Why Do You Even Believe This To Be True? (Score:2)