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China Files Case Against Intel's Wireless Network

Hemos posted more than 8 years ago | from the going-thru-the-money dept.

274

Krishna Dagli writes "China has launched a case against American chipmaker Intel's near-monopoly on encryption standards for wireless local area network (WLAN) equipment, state press reported Monday."

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Can we? (4, Interesting)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425087)

Can we all just ignore this story until xinhua / china decide to release some information on what (specifically), the IEEE is supposed to have done?

-1 Lack of detail.

Re:Can we? (4, Insightful)

PRC Banker (970188) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425125)

FTFA: It is about abuse of a monopoly. Could have a lot of beef, or could not, but to answer your question:

China has accused the makers of the technology developed by the chipmaking giant Intel of unethical behaviour and has asked the International Standards Organization (ISO) to review the case, Xinhua news reported.

It says that the American Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), actual makers of the technology, broke ISO rules when its national bodies voted on new technology to mend security loopholes in the WLAN standard.

China now wants the ISO to investigate the fast-track process to determine "whether the ethical and procedural rules and principles have indeed been violated and whether the ballots have been unfairly influenced by those ethical and procedural violations".

That is what has been done, it chose new technology and in doing so apparently broke rules on voting for procedures.

They don't like real crypto. (1)

jthill (303417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425146)

The important part is what they want reconsidered:
China in 2003 tried to force multinationals wanting to sell wireless computer equipment to support its proprietary and secret encryption
What they say Intel did is irrelevant to them and us.

Re:They don't like real crypto. (2, Interesting)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425167)

What they say Intel did is irrelevant to them and us.

Yes, yes, China's motives are quite obvious.

But what they say intel did has some merit don't you think? After all, if Intel did something against ISOs rules, then we may be looking at WAPI as the new standard.

Re:They don't like real crypto. (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425244)

But what they say intel did has some merit don't you think? After all, if Intel did something against ISOs rules, then we may be looking at WAPI as the new standard.

Even if WAPI (the Chinese government backed organization) is correct in its accusations, it doesn't mean that WAPI should be adopted as a standard. Presumably, the voting process would be repeated, assuming of course that the Chinese go through with that.

Re:They don't like real crypto. (1)

jthill (303417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425280)

Merit I don't know. Afaict we don't know what they say Intel did, but it's going to amount to backroom negotiations waawaawaa. Cases like that are political, not technical. Any public discussion of the merits will be lies staged by at least one side, worthless to anyone who wants to know what's actually going on, and the Chinese were going to find something. That's why I said "irrelevant".

Re:They don't like real crypto. (2, Interesting)

jthill (303417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425440)

God. I just read the People's Daily article [people.com.cn] someone else here linked. Intel's crimes
included organizing a conspiracy against the China-developed WAPI, insulting China and other national bodies, and intimidation and threats.

"Insulting". You have to read the article to really get a sense of it. I don't know how much of it's a show and how much of it is really that they ... feel they've lost face. Ok. It's real. Face matters in Chinese culture, a lot, and this is a combination of homegrown startup tech and nascent national status. By our standards, they subordinate truth to status even in rational endeavors, that's as contemptible coming from them as it is from our own politicians, and you can just see the feedback loop closing. Pray for some genuine diplomats, everybody's going to need them.

I wouldn't know enough to tell without some serious books-hitting — and since it's secret tech nobody has the facts anyway — but imagine the possible irony here: what if WAPI really is better? That's just too delicious. The unfeeling consumer-of-good-stories in me almost hopes it's true.

Re:They don't like real crypto. (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425545)

included organizing a conspiracy against the China-developed WAPI, insulting China and other national bodies, and intimidation and threats.
Well, why it isn't insane ravings about how they got screwed, in diplomatic speek, it is quite hard. It maybe that who ever filed the suite or released details did so as if they were opening diplomatic dialogs. Could it be that Intel is so big they are treated as diplomats in china?

I agree with all that you are saying. I just wanted to add that maybe the problems were sumerized and presented as if it was trying to gain the attention of the state department too. In either case, they don't want to make any blunt statments or demands. It leaves alot of room for diplomats to work things out without losing face. And as you said, face is important to alot of leaders and people. Specialy in that area of the world.

Re:Can we? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425472)

WMF, as usual, posting a knee-jerk reaction reply in the karma-rich first minutes stating something either obvious or untrue. Like in this case, something entirely uninformative clearly displaying that WMF didn't bother to read the fucking article before posting. Par for the course.

HAHAHAHAHA! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425519)

YOU HAVE FAILED IT!

china? whaa? (1, Insightful)

rootofevil (188401) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425091)

since when does china care about patent law?

also, how is it intels fault theyve put a ton of money into researching it? (that may be slightly ignorant of the actual facts, but if they wrote the standards, it stands to reason they created it)

Re:china? whaa? (5, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425113)

since when does china care about patent law?

Nothing to do with patent law.

Short version. IEEE submitted 80211i, China submitted WAPI to ISO to be international wireless encryption standards. IEEE won, WAPI lost. China is complaining that IEEE did something bad during the lead up to the voting process. No news sources are reporting what that something was as far as I can see.

So we have nebulous claims of interference in the ISO process. No more, no less.

(I'm not sure whether I dislike/distrust Intel or China more)

Re:china? whaa? (0, Flamebait)

Browncoat (928784) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425217)

I don't tend to trust giant companies, and I don't tend to trust Communist governments. That said, I think the lesser evil is Intel, because China can wreak more on several fronts, including the tech industries.

It looks to me like China is whining because things didn't go their way.

Re:china? whaa? (5, Insightful)

JulesLt (909417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425367)

Intel hasn't (to my knowledge) killed anyone protesting against it, in full view of the world's cameras, just because it can.

Re:china? whaa? (2, Funny)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425401)

Intel hasn't (to my knowledge) killed anyone protesting against it, in full view of the world's cameras, just because it can.

Good point.

You're quite right that China has behaved far more atrociously than intel.

Re:china? whaa? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425558)

Is an ISO certified tech actualy pattenable? I mean if itis the standard, Can they collect royalties? It would seem that it some things were industry standards, the concept outside and indevidual implementation should be open.

I've often wondered about this. IEEE and I think ISO are two different groups. Even if it isn't, The types of software pattents we are seeing could includ the entire standard. I'm not sure if that is right (moraly or legaly).

Re:china? whaa? (1)

Zemran (3101) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425161)

Just like every other country, they only worry about it when they think their IP has been violated....

Re:china? whaa? (1)

oringo (848629) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425255)

Just like any other average /. poster, the moment you see something on China and IP, China is always the pirater. Despite the facts (that you don't know about) that Chinese laws DOES protect patent filed in China, this story has nothing to do with patent violation.

China simply doesn't want foreign companies to hold the dominant IP on one of the network infrastructure protocols, as doing so would mean that billions of Chinese customers would have to pay a foreign orgazination (IEEE and Intel) a royalty fee on every single 802.11 product they purchase (and believe it or not, they DO pay through the manufacturers).

So why does China care to make their own standard an international standard? Because Intel doesn't give a damn to China's standard, unless it is made official IEEE. Intel will continue to sell Intel's standard to China as long as Intel's standard is the IEE standard protocol. And they sell a whole lot of 802.11 devices every year.

Re:china? whaa? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425337)

How can anything be both a standard and patented? Surely the whole point of standards is that they are international benchmarks. Fine if Intel won the IEEE bidding to have their method adopted for international use everyone should recognise it and be happy. At which point any patent claims Intel have to methods are null and void. How can you have a *STANDARD* and still profess to control it? It makes no sense. And it wouldn't matter if the Chinese WAPI standard had been adopted, by the same token they would have to drop all claims to control it.

In other words what I am saying is that these so called "standards" are bullshit. They are no more than a way for large companies to *force* their already dubiously patented processes on the market under the pretense of concensual recognition.

It should be the law that for anything to even be considered as an international standard it must already be open source and patent free.

Re:china? whaa? Huhh? Welll... (1)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425555)

Maybe they DON'T for the most part (until it starts to HURT them....), but maybe this is tit-for-tat as regards the recent lame-assed US assault on Lenovo.

The US arms of government and maybe even a few tech companies worried about losing business to Lenovo. When it was IBM they competed with, it would have probably been unpatriotic to bash IBM. It CERtainly would have been economical suicide, for IBM could have brough all resources to bear against such companies.

But, with it being Lenovo, and with all the patriotism/nationalism drivel sloshing around the planet, it's easy to blame or accuse a Chinese laptop company of being a threat to US national security.

Well, now Lenovo, and other Chinese tech companies, can via the Chinese government make noise through tech channels. At least they're doing it in the right channels, or so it seems.

So, if the US can ban or cause wrinkles for Lenovo and other aspiring companies (particularly when the hardware is made mostly in the US and in Mexico) trying to sell in and outside the US, then it's fair game for China to call the standards into question. Just enough to make people look up and question whether the IEEE has some actual or tenuous link to US NSA hunger for backdoors and data traps...

Unfounded or not, it wouldn't hurt to look for and block those traps. If they're found to exist, then China can cause a majjjoooorrrr storm without expending too many resources at the national level (as opposed to the business level).

Well call the kettle black... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425092)

*China* is accusing Intel of unethical behavior?!

Hah!

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

iced_773 (857608) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425145)


I find it especially amusing because China is communist. That is, in theory they are supposed to have a total monopoly on EVERYTHING.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425169)

Interesting that an American (and I'm sure that you are, being that your type tend to be egotistical loudmouthes) would laugh at the idea of unethical behaviour inside your own borders. In fact it would seem that unethical behaviour is pretty much standard at all levels of government in the U.S., from the president himself, all the way down to the marine slaughtering civilians in Iraq (yet another big court case, what a surprise).

How does it feel to be among the most universally reviled people in history?

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425192)

It's only unethical behaviour if you lose.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

eraser.cpp (711313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425199)

Pretty good, actually.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425324)

If you had half a nerve cell in your head you'd realize that the grandparent was laughing at the hypocrisy of China.

Moron.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

msh104 (620136) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425366)

well, and he in turn was laughing at the hypocrisy of the american people who are laughing at the hypocrisy of the chinese people. :p

Re:Well call the kettle black... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425393)

All things considered, our dogs eat better than your children, so I think we're doing fine.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

Browncoat (928784) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425201)

Yes, I also found this quite hilarious. It's the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425261)

I don't trust Intel but choosing between the lesser of the evil I'd pick Intel over China anyday. From someone of Asian descent.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

xutopia (469129) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425292)

Oh get over yourself! No one is perfect! The USA has been condemned by NGOs for as long as they exist on their lack of respect for human rights too. Ask a Chinese man what country is doing horrible as far as human rights is concerned and he might point you to the USA. That being said we can all improve and if these lawsuits bring to light what needs to be fixed then it can only be good for us in the long run!

Re:Well call the kettle black... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425364)

>Ask a Chinese man what country is doing horrible as far as human rights is concerned and he might point you to the USA.

Sure, because he won't have a clue about terrible things happening in his country, but know about every terrible thing the US has done. That said, your whole comment is bullshit as Intel is not the USA.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425419)

Ask a Chinese man what country is doing horrible as far as human rights is concerned and he might point you to the USA.

A chinese man has no relevance in the rest of the world, for a Chinese man only hears what his governement tells him. For reference see:


  •    
  • Tianenman Square

  •    
  • Tibet

  •    
  • Taiwan


Furthermore, in China, you simply do not speak out against the state for fear of retribution, as in most communist states.

In America, you are free to voice your opinion - you don't (usually) go to jail for it. Someone might call you "Anti-American", but that's about where it ends.

Re:Well call the kettle black... (1, Insightful)

Aardpig (622459) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425434)

  • Kent State
  • Tuskagee
  • Abu Ghraib
  • Gitmo
  • Fallujah
  • Haditha
  • ...

Chinese Hypocrisy (5, Interesting)

reporter (666905) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425325)

This legal action that Beijing has taken against Intel is not the first instance of Chinese hypocrisy.

Consider the princelings of China [businessweek.com] . They and their parents are members of the Chinese communist party. These princelings live, for long stretches, in the West and enjoy its freedoms and prosperity. Yet, the parents of the princelings fully support and enforce the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.

I have personally met some of these princelings.

Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.

Here is another, more damning, example. In 2001 in Northern California, the Chinese consulate in San Francisco sponsored an anti-Falun-Gong meeting conducted in Santa Clara, California. Chinese students from San Jose State University, Stanford University, and other neighboring universities, attended the meeting. The Chinese student associations at the respective universities fully supported the anti-Falun-Gong meeting.

These Chinese students enjoy the freedom and prosperity in the West but, actually, support the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.

Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.

By now, you should realize that the authoritarian government in China exists for one reason: the majority of Chinese either support the authoritarian government or are indifferent to it.

Because China plays fairly! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425095)

Another example of CHINA flexing it's future economic strength?

Re:Because China plays fairly! (1)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425356)

Whaddayamean 'future'? Have a look at the enormous trade imbalance between the USA and China! China lost the wars against Europe a couple hundred years ago and then Japan and Mao did them in again twice more in the last century, but they have made a huge comeback lately.

Another anti-China article (1, Offtopic)

Pao|o (92817) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425100)

Isn't anyone getting bored with all the anti-China articles posted on /.? It's as if everyone is trying to outnumber the anti-Microsoft ones.

I think it's great that China is taking a stand on Intel's near-monopoly on wireless tech. I think we need more incompatible specifications to incite more innovation, etc, etc.

Re:Another anti-China article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425138)

No.... that's like saying "Isn't everyone sick of hearing about Darfur?" (or Iraq).
The Chinese gov't has done and is doing very bad things and these need to be brought to light. That way they might be held accountable for their wrongdoings and not just seen as the next gold rush for american businesses. Just b/c they might have done one good thing, doesn't mean they ARE good

Re:Another anti-China article (1)

phoenix321 (734987) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425213)

And nobody will be trying to contain his hysterical laughter as China is going against patents, monopolies and immoral political or economical behaviour. Their accusations contain a fair bit of irony, much like the thief suing the locksmith.

"locksmith" and "thief" (1)

totalctrl (974993) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425328)

are not a good and a bad label to judge a person. i believe they are used to judge what a person is doing on a per-case basis. a locksmith could steal too.

Re:Another anti-China article (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425445)

Have any examples of good articles on china?

Re:Another anti-China article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425540)

No. All of my good articles are on paper.

Suit against intel? (-1, Flamebait)

WinterSolstice (223271) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425101)

More likely they couldn't figure out how to reverse-engineer the products/and or Intel won't cave to them, and therefore they are suing them.

Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.

-WS

Re:Suit against intel? (5, Insightful)

hyfe (641811) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425140)

Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.

Yeah, it's about time they grew up and started killing other countries' populace like the grown-ups are.

Suit against intel?-Bullies. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425492)

"Yeah, it's about time they grew up and started killing other countries' populace like the grown-ups are."

Like Tibet.

I have this feeling too (mod parent up) (1)

bobamu (943639) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425142)

it's often interesting to see the reaction of powerful folks not getting what they want on demand.

Seems like the toys are getting thrown straight out of the pram.

Or is this significant of something deeper going on?

So.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425148)

How does that explain Americans with the same behavior?

Re:Suit against intel? (1)

ArghBlarg (79067) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425154)

Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.

And how is any country with military and intelligence organizations running out of control any [whatreallyhappened.com] different [whatreallyhappened.com] ?

(Couldn't resist.)

Re:Suit against intel? (1)

corrosive_nf (744601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425431)

yeah link to the site that claims there were no hijackers.

Re:Suit against intel? (4, Insightful)

eraser.cpp (711313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425291)

Reverse engineer? 802.11i is an open standard, and it seems like Intel was defending that in the face of what would have been a proprietary standard that China would stand to benefit from.

Re:Suit against intel? (1)

radicalnerd (930674) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425315)

Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.

come on, what civilized country hasn't oppressed and tortured people before? can you say: japanese internment, chinese/japanese antiforeignism in california, segregation, cuba (where we had concentration camps during the spanish american war), the philippines...

that said, i agree with the first statement. this is probably a result of governments pushing technological standards to gain international standing.

okay, mod me down

Re:Suit against intel? (1)

X.25 (255792) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425340)

Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.

As opposed to countries that systematically kill population of other countries (uh, who might that be)?

In other news ... (2, Funny)

garoush (111257) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425110)

... the world has lunched a case against China's near-monopoly on copyright abuse, human rights, cheap label, ...

Re:In other news ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425321)

Yeah, the US Government and it's financial backers are feeling as if they're constantly getting second billing in these departments. I mean, honorable mention in "creation of abusive IP laws" and the second-billing status on the treatment of prisioners, um, I mean enemy combatants, is not where the leader of the free world should be. Time to take those cheap bastards on the other side of the Pacific down a notch!

This is like Freddy Vs Jason (3, Funny)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425111)

Evil against Evil. Although I'd argue that since Intel doesn't sell the organs of executed political prisoners, [bbc.co.uk] they are the lesser evil.

So, I guess that makes Intel the Jason in this conflict.

LK

Cult of death? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425163)

Why do you worship corpses so much? Do you believe that they will rise up (resurect) in whatever shape they happen to be at some point in the future?

Re:Cult of death? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425424)

I don't have to explain myself to some yellow, slant-eyed mongoloid.

Ching tsing ching tang ching chong ching chang fuckhead.

Re:This is like Freddy Vs Jason (1)

wenit (851000) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425215)

Would it be better if they just trashed the organs?

Re:This is like Freddy Vs Jason (2, Interesting)

Browncoat (928784) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425307)

It is debasing the value of human life, in my opinion. It's not about wasting organs, it's about the fact that China kills political prisoners and they shouldn't have those organs in the first place.

Also, it's illegal to buy or sell organs in most countries, so it's contributing to the black market problem.

Open standards (2, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425124)

... and in 2003 tried to force multinationals wanting to sell wireless computer equipment to support its proprietary and secret encryption standard called WAPI.

Exactly how is it better to replace one proprietary standard with another. If they were serious about this, perhaps proposing an open standard would be a bit more constructive.

Re:Open standards (4, Insightful)

stevew (4845) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425168)

The thing is - the WAPI standard was a "secret" while the IEEE standard simply isn't. Intel and other multinationals would have to yield their intellectual property to chineese companies to support the WAPI standard. THAT is what the
companies gripped about.

As for the IEEE - it ISN'T just an American body. The truth is that it has an American aspect (that is certainly large and powerful), but IEEE is an INTERNATIONAL organization. How do I know? - I was a member for 15 years. I've even been involved in IEEE standards creation slightly. This is usually done by company representatives. So if Chineese companies were to send representation to IEEE standards efforts, they would have some influence in same.

You're as likely to Siemens or Alcatel, etc involved in these bodies as you are to see Intel, etc. It is more appropriately a mechanism mostly staffed by professional engineers representing their company's interests that create IEEE standards.

Try this... (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425126)

Here's a more helpful link [people.com.cn] , that also a) isn't a verbatim AFP story with irritating advertising "links" and b) doesn't have a current forum thread on "The future and the ways of the "Jew"" (which is even more moronic than it sounds -- how dimwitted do you have to be to spell "rich" with a "t"?).

Re:Try this... (1)

stickfigure (133284) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425384)

Thanks for the link. You'll notice it's a .cn domain, so ... ahem... slightly biased. None the less, by accusing the IEEE of "organizing a conspiracy against the China-developed WAPI, insulting China and other national bodies, and intimidation and threats." it's hard to take the claims seriously. If AMD was complaining about some move of Intel's and one of their arguments was "they insulted us!" it would rightly drown out all their other claims with our laughter. I realize that China is a face focused culture, but seriously. They should do what every other competitor to a standard does, build their product and let the market decide. Hell, they're requiring it for all wireless devices in China. I'm sure SOMEONE will pick up their standard just to get their business. If it really is better, then people outside of China will want to use it too. If, as our American conspiracy theorists predict, it's just a Chinese government backdoor into wireless encryption, then it will never catch on because no one outside of their country will want it.

Re:Try this... (1)

peterfa (941523) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425423)

I actually thought of that myself when I read about it. It was the first thing that came to mind. I figured that there was some kind of backdoor that allows China to easily decrypt communication and spy on people. That's why they require all people in China to use it. If they had Americans using it, they could spy on Americans... though I really have no idea why they would want to do that.

Re:Try this... (1)

pep11 (796061) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425551)


which is even more moronic than it sounds -- how dimwitted do you have to be to spell "rich" with a "t"?
 

well, may you remind me how to spell rich ...
in chinese

Will cause trouble in DC. (2)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425131)

Our elected leaders in DC will not know what to do about this as it presents a major problem for them. That is who do they support?

  Big Business or China?

  Since most of them in DC (GOPer & DEMs) are in love with both whose side do they support?

Re:Will cause trouble in DC. (4, Funny)

linzeal (197905) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425157)

Whichever one gives them more mad props and foil-wrapped bricks of money.

Re:Will cause trouble in DC. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425205)

Why don't you just come right out and say it... You think that DC will do whatever the Jews say to do. Filthy Antisemite!

Re:Will cause trouble in DC. (4, Informative)

eraser.cpp (711313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425256)

Colin Powell spoke with Chinese trade officials a while back and got them to halt a program that would have required WiFi equipment being sold in China to support WAPI. The program also would have required foreign companies to partner with a Chinese firm before entering the market.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/05/HNbarret tochina_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld .com/article/04/04/05/HNbarrettochina_1.html [infoworld.com]

FTA: "The U.S. government has also weighed in on the issue. U.S. Secretary of Commerce Donald Evans, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick, sent a letter to senior Chinese government officials in March expressing concern over the implementation of China's WLAN standard and that the move created a dangerous precedent for using standards as a barrier to international trade."

bit34 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425132)

Waiting for the DVD... (2, Funny)

crazyjeremy (857410) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425133)

There is to be a 90 minute DVD about this issue. It will be released in the U.S. in July for $14.99 or get it now, burned to a cd... from a Chinese convenience shop near you.

China just wants to eavesdrop (0, Flamebait)

Chemkook (915402) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425170)


I think China simply wants to eavesdrop.
I would not trust Chinese encryption, would you?

China can save the world if only they would make
cheap solar panels that run air conditioners.

I am in the market for a solar powered air conditioner that
is environmetally friendly.

Using coal to generate electricity is just not helping the problem.

Re:China just wants to eavesdrop (1)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425468)

If all the Chinese want to do is eavesdrop, please pick up your telephone, dial any number, and let the NSA know that you feel much safer because of your government's security measures.

Re:China just wants to eavesdrop (0, Flamebait)

Paolone (939023) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425501)

Funny how can you say the same about U.S.A.

Re:China just wants to eavesdrop (1)

Schraegstrichpunkt (931443) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425562)

I would not trust Chinese encryption, would you?

I don't trust any encryption system that isn't open and well-analyzed, regardless of the country of origin.

That said, I'm sure that some Chinese people are capable of developing strong cryptography. They broke SHA-1 [schneier.com] , after all.

Bizarre (1)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425188)

China could have many legit beefs and concerns with regards to western companies (eg. the near-monopoly of Windows on the desktop), so why are they complaining about an IEEE standard supported and implemented by many vendors?

I'm guessing that some person who's company developed the Chinese alternative has an uncle on the Politburo.

If this is the case, it's a shame - there is so much that our governments could do for us if they weren't so corrupt. If this is not the case, then I hope someone will explain what is going on.

it's all about WAPI (1)

totalctrl (974993) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425204)

WAPI [wikipedia.org]

Grow up. (5, Insightful)

Lally Singh (3427) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425224)

Note to slashdot repliers: Enough with the ad hominem attacks. If you don't like what China's doing, talk about what they're doing, not what you like/dislike about China.

We've all got our personal opinions on politics and the politics of technology, but if our words are to mean anything, we've got to appeal to higher standards.

Re:Grow up. (0, Offtopic)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425363)

but if our words are to mean anything, we've got to appeal to higher standards

What? Slashdot appeal to a higher standard? What do you think this is Fox News? Surely you jest.

Re:Grow up. (1)

gamer4Life (803857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425387)

It's okay, most people in America don't even know why they hate China. Aside from being an authoritarian government, China hasn't done much worse than the United States has in terms of attacking non-threatening countries, violating human rights, unfair trade policies, etc... People are just eating up the media's need to find a villian in this world. These days, China can't do anything right.

There seems to be some anti-communist, racist, and/or anti-foreign element to this, similar to the anti-French sentiment. Let's first worry about our own country first before we poke our noses into the "ethics" of another.

Re:Grow up. (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425458)

Well done for saying that - it's good someone did.

But it won't make any difference - we'll get the same sort of drivel next time a story on China, or India, or Europe, or Australia comes around :-/

Re:Grow up. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425556)

An ad hominem attack is only a fallacy if it is used to attack an argument which could be independently verified.

Pointing out that someone (or some country!) has a history of lying, among other things, is a very valid argument against believing any unsupported claims they may make!

Fuck China! (0, Troll)

Bohemoth2 (179802) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425245)

Certain people deserve ad homminem atacks and China is one of them. Cencorship is bulshit period!

Re:Fuck China! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425260)

So is spelling, apparently.

*shrug*

so, whatever technical topics you have (1)

totalctrl (974993) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425272)

if they are about china, they all converge to the cencorship? hmmm. interesting logic.

yup, i second that fuck china comment (0, Troll)

Nondescrypt (460598) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425288)

so... Fuck China.

Talking about disgusting atrocities in a nice tone (0, Troll)

Nondescrypt (460598) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425327)

before modding down the F**K china posts, please consider my point of view here.
Some things China does are completely UNacceptable, but since we complain,
they don't change anything & then we kinda say "we tried" & just accept their behaviour.
Eventually we become used to it & we are no longer even bothered
when we hear about whats going on there. It Becomes Normal. thats just china, what can you do.
Thats why it's important to hear & say FUCK CHINA - in CAPS none the less
it's not OK, & unless we keep making noise about this stuff,
it WILL be coming to a neighbourhood near you,
oh yes, it will....

Re:Talking about disgusting atrocities in a nice t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425561)

Then why do people take so much offence when people say 'Fuck USA', or the government?

I'll always stand up to Bush's imperialism, why aren't the American people.

Why the surprise.... (2, Insightful)

ibm1130 (123012) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425332)

Of course they're upset since it means they can't foist their backdoors on anyone without an immense amount of difficulty. Would you trust Beijing gummint encryption?

Re:Why the surprise.... (1)

wookie geek (953826) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425362)

So this is somehow different than the backdoor in the encryption scheme that HP foisted off on everyone? The one that they immediately turned over to law enforcement on rquest? Get real.

Re:Why the surprise.... (2, Interesting)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425428)

Well, yeah, I actually do trust Bejing more than a whole zoo of other countries. China does have a shaky history regarding personal freedoms, but life in most of China is orders of magnitude better than in most of Africa and many other parts of Asia. Also bear in mind that China has *never* attacked Western Europe or America. Militarily and economically, China is an allied force and a friend of America and Europe. That is the reality of the matter. Of course there are things they can improve, but they have come a long way in the latter half of the last century.

Now look at Africa, with hell-holes like Central African Republic, Chad, Somalia, Zimbabwe and so on. Several countries in Africa do not even have a government and exist only on paper maps, they do not exist in reality as a country. They have no infrastructure, no roads, no railways, no hospitals, no schools, no clean water, but they do have a seat in the UN, where a nephew of a local war lord can spout off against developed countries...

Bah, humbug!

China Really Shouldn't be Complaining (3, Insightful)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425344)

The US Government should tell the Chinese that we will start giving a damn about whether an Intel monopoly hurts their homegrown wireless industry when they start giving a damn about all the software piracy and intellectual property theft going on in their country.

Falun Gong created 802.11x, that's why! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425372)

Actually, it's because many of the 802.11x developers were Falun Gong members. China had them promptly killed, of course, so they had to develop WAPI instead.

ZING!

all the encryption.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425405)

All the encryption are belong to us

can't trust wireless encryption anyway (2, Informative)

penguin-collective (932038) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425464)

It doesn't really matter what wireless encryption standards one uses, you can't trust them anyway. First of all, the companies involved have already demonstrated their incompetence with WEP. Second, I think at this point you have to assume that any encryption that's encoded in a chip has a backdoor in it and that a significant number of people will know about it.

If you want secure wireless communications, you have to use software encryption implemented in open source software.

Saw this already on "24" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15425533)

Don't they kidnap Paul Otellini [intel.com] and tell him that 18 months ago he screwed their wireless networking domination to allow free standards?

Don't worry, Craig Barrett [intel.com] will rescue him, while Andy Grove [intel.com] masterminds the coverup, all while on a "Moore's Law " tour of east Asia.

see times are changing (2, Funny)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425535)

China now wants the ISO to investigate the fast-track process to determine "whether the ethical and procedural rules and principles have indeed been violated

Legalize and the right to a democratic networking standard .... China is indeed becoming more westernized all the time ... hahahaha ... I love it.

Its the IEEE they really have the gripe with... (4, Interesting)

MosesJones (55544) | more than 8 years ago | (#15425542)

As they appear to be suggesting that the IEEE "leant" on ISO to stop the Chinese Wifi standard becoming accepted. Because a large part of this was from Intel, and lets face it suing the IEEE is going to look REAL dumb, they've decided to go after the big bad wolf.

I love the idea of clandestine meetings around ISO and IEEE meetings, more people would go if that was true!
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