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2006 OpenBSD Hackathon Well Underway

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago

71

An anonymous reader writes "KernelTrap is running a two part who's who at the 2006 OpenBSD Hackathon. Starting on the 27th and running for a full week, developers get together and concentrate on communication rather than just development. Project leader Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'"

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David Blaine Fails, GNAA claims responsibility (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432546)

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Yeah. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432554)

> I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.

Yes, that would be called doing your job.

Re:Yeah. (3, Funny)

Roody Blashes (975889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432583)

I guess that says something about some of the developers around here....

I gotta say, the AC has a point. I spend 50-60 hours a week writing code because, uh, that's what I'm paid to do.

Re:Yeah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432712)

Ewww, a job. Doesn't your country have ALG2 or Hartz IV? Fucking losers.

Re:Yeah. (3, Funny)

OECD (639690) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432613)

'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'"

WTF? What the hell are they doing, then? JFC, it must be fscking nice... No Karma points for them. Bad developers! Bad! *smacks nose with newspaper*

Re:Yeah. (5, Insightful)

twistah (194990) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432648)

Look up the word "volunteer" in the dictionary.

Re:Yeah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432713)

Look up the word "volunteer" in the dictionary.

WTF are you talking about? Where does that word appear in either the main article, the grandparent, or the parent?

Re:Yeah. (2, Insightful)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433304)

He said it because it's what open source developers are you dipshit, they volunteer their time to develop a free piece of software, the only one of them that is consistantly making a living through OpenBSD is de Raadt, and he lives and breaths OpenBSD. Perhaps you should be reading a different section of Slashdot, so as to not confuse you with these complex concepts.

Re:Yeah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433818)

A Mitch Hedberg Sig??
I don't know you but I like you already dude!!

Re:Yeah. (4, Funny)

gbobeck (926553) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432710)

> I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.

Yes, that would be called doing your job.


Yeah... and some people also call that **College**

What ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432794)

Very few people get paid to work on OpenBSD, most of them have jobs as well.

you're not alone doing this (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432567)

Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'

For just one project that does this often, see http://plone.org/events/sprints [plone.org]

Re:you're not alone doing this (1)

AMK (3114) | more than 8 years ago | (#15434277)

Python just had a sprint in Iceland [python.org] , too.

No one else does an -athon? (1, Insightful)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432570)

So no one else suspends work to do something else intensely for a short time as a competition/etc. Let's make a short list: semi-pro (or even pro in some sports) athletes. touring artisans. olympians. the peace corps. So yes, lots of other people do something like a "hack"athon, for their chosen area of interest.

Re:No one else does an -athon? (5, Insightful)

Toba82 (871257) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432607)

That's not the point - what he was saying is that no other free software project actually has a meetup where they code in a setting that is, frankly, what closed source companies use 100% of the time.

Re:No one else does an -athon? (2, Informative)

OmegaBlac (752432) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432699)

Debian developers do this. [debian.org] It may not be a week at a time but several weekends a year and it eventually evens out.

http://wiki.debian.org/BSPMarathon [debian.org]

Debian does two weeks! (1)

javifs (667756) | more than 8 years ago | (#15434125)

Actually, Debian developers do more. (approx) 250 Debian Developers have recently (two weeks ago) attended this year's Debian Conference [debconf.org] in Mexico. Not everybody hacked all the time (as the pictures proved [debconf.org] ) but there was quite a bit of it.

Also, even if the main conference is held yearly, there are mini conferences held with fewer people (30-100) in, at least, Australia, Japan and Spain [debian.org.es] .

Re:No one else does an -athon? (0)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432962)

what he was saying is that no other free software project actually has a meetup where they code in a setting that is, frankly, what closed source companies use 100% of the time.

He's saying that, and he's wrong. Is there any major OSS project - GNOME, KDE, Linux, Apache ... - that doesn't do this?

Pfft! A week?!? (5, Funny)

OmegaBlac (752432) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432591)

Project leader Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.
Tell that too the EA developers! [slashdot.org]

Axes? (2, Funny)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432602)

Is this where the techie fight clubs use axes for a day?

Re:Axes? (1)

codegen (103601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433001)

Is this where the techie fight clubs use axes for a day

Nah.. Just pitchforks....

heh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432608)

quote: ".. developers suspend their lives .."

We all know that *BSD has been suspended for quite a while, they call it death.

Re:heh (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433043)

I found it interesting that so many of the OpenBSD developers started off working with Linux (that some come from the other BSD's is hardly a surprise considering OpenBSD's origin). It seemed they were motivated as much by being disenchanted with Linux code quality (and documentation) as they were captivated by OpenBSD. It begs the question as to whether Linux really needs tighter integration and stricter controls on key libraries, utilities, etc. now that it has become a mainstream OS so far from its hobby beginnings. You could dismiss them all as malcontents, but I'm beginning to wonder (by numbers and lingering rumours) if there is something to these criticisms.

Re:heh (1)

eclectechie (411647) | more than 8 years ago | (#15537575)

I found it interesting that so many of the OpenBSD developers started off working with Linux ...

Works for me... let them learn somehere else, then come and do their best work on OpenBSD.

Re:heh (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433124)

I'm afraid you're making an elementary mistake. If BSD is dead, then dereferencing the pointer will just give you a segfault.

Re:heh (1)

HeX314 (570571) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433719)

...dereferencing the pointer will just give you a segfault.

It's a regular expression, not a variable name.

English is a script, not a compilable language.

Re:heh (1)

ecmascript (689671) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433782)

It's a regular expression, not a variable name.

Actually its a glob [catb.org] or wildcard expression. To be a regular expression it would have to contain the dot character before the asterisk.

Re:heh (1)

kkiller (945601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15434059)

Did Netcraft...

Oh, nevermind.

I like OpenBSD and all, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432624)

... it's not like no one else has gatherings where people go someplace and work on a focused set of goals for a week or so; it's called a "sprint".

Re:I like OpenBSD and all, but... (4, Informative)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432665)

No, a sprint is shorter than a hackathon and tends to be run by significantly smaller projects than a full operating systems. Something insignificant like pypy or the like does a sprint, infact that's how most of their development is done, two day sprints all the time.

Re:I like OpenBSD and all, but... (2, Informative)

Johnny deBris (826604) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433491)

Actually, PyPy sprints can last more than a day or two, iirc the longest was 6 or 7 days. Same for Zope and other Python projects: week-long sprints are uncommon, but they do happen. Also, I wonder whether this has anything to do with significance... I think hackathons and sprints are basically the same thing, just different words for similar gatherings in different communities.

Illogical captain ... (0, Redundant)

phoebe (196531) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432640)

... developers get together and concentrate on communication rather than just development. Project leader Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'"

How can you quote one sentence and incorrectly interpret it at the same time?

WTF? Contradiction in the Summary! (4, Funny)

pgpckt (312866) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432704)

KernelTrap is running a two part who's who at the 2006 OpenBSD Hackathon. Starting on the 27th and running for a full week, developers get together and concentrate on communication rather than just development. Project leader Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'"

Re:WTF? Contradiction in the Summary! (0, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432746)

That's Theo de Raddt for you, a walking contradiction.

Re:WTF? Contradiction in the Summary! (1)

RevDobbs (313888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432952)

Like ninjas?

Re:WTF? Contradiction in the Summary! (2)

nacturation (646836) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433613)

Obviously de Raadt didn't write the former. He was quoted as saying the latter. But development isn't just shutting your mouth and coding -- if you run into a snag, it's easiest when you can go and talk to the person whose part you're trying to interface with or get help from others who have overcome those obstacles rather than having to send an email across various timezones, wait for a response, etc. Having everyone there just in case of such issues leads to more development being done which is, after all, the primary purpose.
 

How is this useful? (3, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432716)

I've never been to an OpenBSD Hackathon, but I really don't understand how this is the best way to use their time together. Surely the advantage of getting everybody into a room together is to allow them to talk to each other more easily, not to allow them to all stare at their terminals and ignore each other.

When FreeBSD developer summits occur (e.g., at the recent BSDCan), there is always some important hacking done, but the most useful result of the devsummit is that people can talk to each other and make decisions about where the project should going next (e.g., dropping support for Alpha, working more on embedded/arm support, et cetera). Clearly we're missing something important -- can someone more familiar with OpenBSD tell me what the ingredient is in Theo's Magic Kool-Aid which makes developers better at hacking code when they all get together in a single room?

Re:How is this useful? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432796)

I've never been to an OpenBSD hackathon either, but I think the theory is that when you are coding, you often might run into a problem where you'd like to consult someone else, and at the hackathon, an expert is right at the next table. No need to worry about lag from email/IM waiting for a response while another person has gone away for the day, or lives in a different time-zone, is busy working at their day-job, etc, etc.

Re:How is this useful? (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433161)

They're invitation only for the projects core developers. It's not like it's an open, random thing.

Re:How is this useful? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15434209)

Where did I imply it was open to the public?

Re:How is this useful? (4, Informative)

RazzleDazzle (442937) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433055)

There are no "project decisions" to be discussed and made. Theo is the owner of the project, if you want to debate with him on the merits of his choices for the project, he will likely listen to what you have to say as long as it is reasonable to him.

As an analogy imagine if you were part of a team creating a car. Each person in the team is worked on just part of the car.
Person 1 says, "I like engines so I am going to work on engine development."
Person 2 says, "I like tires so I am going to work on tires and wheels."
Person 3 says, "I like safety features so I am going to work on safety."
etc.

Now imagine all of these people working on their respective components but in different countries around the world, completely independent of the rest, it could be difficult to ensure proper integration and compatability. Yes they chat, e-mail, etc but when many people are side by side it is much easier to discuss problems you are facing, either design issues, implementaion issues or whatever. Plus, you get to be around a lot of dialogue and discussions that could help enlighten you to other methods or ways of doing things better.

This could just be an oversimplification, but if you work directly with a lot of cool and fun people you admire and are admired by, let's face it, it probably is a lot more fun and productive. It is a team effort of people that like what they are doing and want to do it all lead by captain TdR. Plus I imagine there is some Humppa playing there as well?

Note: I am no developer nor have I ever been to an OpenBSD hackathon.

Re:How is this useful? (1)

maxx_730 (909644) | more than 8 years ago | (#15435260)

Thats a stupid analogy. With OpenBSD summits its more like this: OpenBSD Developer: I like safe code so im going to make sure all code we write is safe OpenBSD Developer: I like readable code so im going to make sure all code we write is readable OpenBSD Developer: I like safe code so im going to make sure all code we write is safe OpenBSD Developer: I like readable code so im going to make sure all code we write is readable Etc..

Re:How is this useful? (1)

lon3st4r (973469) | more than 8 years ago | (#15437115)

Can we not have such collaborative hackathons over the internet? The problems of somebody not being there etc. will go aay then. Free VoIP calls (Skype et. al) are all too good now a days. Wot say?

* lon3st4r*

Re:How is this useful? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15448777)

It's very obvious that as a FreeBSD committer you're a bit stupid and arrogant. Stick to your own crappy FreeBSD stuff and let the OpenBSD developers lead the security race.

Glass 4

What about DebConf? (5, Informative)

Roblimo (357) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432725)

It seems to me that two weeks ago I was in Mexico at DebConf [slashdot.org] , which if you look at the official page [debconf.org] , was preceded by a weeklong "DebCamp" that could just as easily been called a "hackathon," not to mention that probably 60% or more of the average attendee's time during the "main" DebConf week was spent in collaborative hacking. And DebConf had around 250 people there...

I'm not knocking OpenBSD's hackathon, just pointing out that it's hardly unique. Many other FOSS projects have similar gatherings.

Re:What about DebConf? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433096)

Yeah but OpenBSD hackathons usually produce things of great value. Others are just a communal handjob.

Re:What about DebConf? (1)

kkiller (945601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15434068)

Parent is insightful? Do you have some evidence for that statement, oh Mr Coward?

Re:What about DebConf? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15443393)

Parent is insightful? Do you have some evidence for that statement, oh Mr Coward?

Yes he is insightful. You can download the evidence. Download almost any OSS software, be it application or OS in the form of the Linux kernel or Linux distribution. Use them, read the man pages and other documentation, etc. Download the source and read some of it.

Now download OpenBSD, use it, read the documentation, read some of the source.

OpenBSD and related project source is clean and professional and the resulting binaries and overall system is very nice indeed. Linux and lots of other OSS software on the other hand can be an absolute dogs breakfast and few if any match or exceed OpenBSD for quality.

Marc Balmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432769)

I'm sure he have got the question "Any relationship?" more than once...

And to the besserwissers out there... yes, I know Steve spells it will to l's.

Meet the Hackathon (5, Informative)

rbrander (73222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432838)

For the second time (and we're hoping for an annual tradition) the Hackathon has agreed to come up for air long enough to give a talk to the Calgary Unix Users Group.

This year, Bob Beck and Reyk Floeter will give a talk to the group and many Hackathon participants on their directions in wireless chipset support, advanced feature support, and security support.

At SAIT, June 1, 6PM - all details at

http://www.cuug.ab.ca/ [cuug.ab.ca]

Re:Meet the Hackathon (1)

dorfsmay (566262) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433251)


And beyond the fact that you'll be able to listen to some top developers in the industry, this is your opportunity to get your hands on OpenBSD 3.9 CDs, T-shirts and posters !

Re:Meet the Hackathon (4, Interesting)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433405)

I was going to post something here, but it seems half the board has already beaten me to it...

I'm looking forward to it, they had some pretty sweet demos last time. For example, to demonstrate the firewall failover capabilities, they played music on a network mount that was behind a firewall. When they shut down the primary firewall node, the music didn't even skip as the backup took over.

oohhh burn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15432906)

"THEO THE RAT"
art i clever

Re:oohhh burn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433412)

Shut the fuck up KFG!!!

lives? (0, Flamebait)

dartarrow (930250) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432922)

What lives?
..besides I dont think moving out of mums basement for a week is that big a sacrifice.

EA-thon (0, Redundant)

Coward Anonymous (110649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432961)

'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'

Tell that to the folks at EA [slashdot.org] . Or to any other member of a startup for that matter who suspend their lives for at least a couple years.

Suspending "Lives" of some of these developers... (1)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 8 years ago | (#15432969)

Project leader Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying 'I don't think anybody else does this, developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development.'


Can Acar
Can lives in Ankara, Turkey. He began using OpenBSD in 1998

Thordur Bjornson
Thordur lives in Hafnarfjordur, Iceland. ...continued to hang out with OpenBSD people on the mailing lists and IRC.

Henning Brauer
He noted that he did most of the work blindly on the airplane, and still could use hardware for testing.

Michael Coulter
Michael lives in North Vancouver, Canada.

Gordon Klok
Gordon lives in Windsor, Ontario in Canada.

Marc La France
Marc is from Edmonton, Canada. He's from the XFree86 group

Ryan McBride
Ryan was living in Vancouver, Canada

Peter Valchev
Peter lives in Calgary, Canada.

Tobias Weingartner
Tobias lives in Edmonton, Canada.

Ken Westerback
Ken lives in Toronto, Canada.

Kjell Wooding
Kjell lives in Calgary, Canada.

Theo de Raadt
Theo lives in Calgary, Canada. He started the OpenBSD repository on October 18'th, 1995.


Suspending lives? More like OpenBSD zealot's Spring break... without the girls and tanned skins.

Re:Suspending "Lives" of some of these developers. (4, Informative)

dmiller (581) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433342)

Nice work trimming out the ones from other countries.

Re:Suspending "Lives" of some of these developers. (1)

Ratbert42 (452340) | more than 8 years ago | (#15434240)

Yeah, he left just a few people off of the list:
Alexandre Anriot is from Marseille, France.
Marc Balmer lives in Basel, Switzerland.
Todd Fries is from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma in the US.
David Gwynne lives in Brisbane, Australia...
Matthieu Herrb lives in Toulouse, France...
Hans Hoexer lives near Nuremberg in Germany.
Mark Kettenis lives in Assen in the Netherlands.
Ray Lai lives in New York City in the US.
Chad Loder lives in California in the US.
Jolan Luff lives in Chicago, Illinois in the US.
Anil Madhavapeddy lives in Cambridge, UK...
Pedro Martelletto lives in Rio, Brazil.
Uwe Stuehler is from Berlin in Germany.
Joris Vink lives in Dominica, a tropical island in the Caribbean.
Jason Wright lives in Chantilly, Virginia in the US.
Can Acar lives in Ankara, Turkey.
Thordur Bjornson lives in Hafnarfjordur, Iceland.
Henning Brauer lives in Hamburg, Germany.
Reyk Floeter is from Hannover, Germany.
Mats Jansson lives in Stockholm, Sweden.
Claudio Jeker lives in Zurich, Switzerland.
Moritz Jodeit lives in Hamburg, Germany.
Michael Knudsen lives in Aalborg, Denmark.
Felix Kronlage is from Oldenburg, Germany.
Robert Nagy is from Debrecen, Hungary.
Esben Norby lives in Ringkobing, Denmark.
Niall O'Higgins is from Dublin, Ireland.
Chris Pascoe lives in Brisbane, Australia.
Dale Rahn is living in St. Joseph, Illinois, in the US.
Martin Reindl lives in Vienna, Austria.
Nikolay Sturm is from Munich, Germany.
Christian "Naddy" Weisgerber lives in Ludwigshafen, Germany.

Re:Suspending "Lives" of some of these developers. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15435522)

Sausagefest, anyone?

*BSD is Dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433005)

It is now official. Netcraft confirms: OpenBSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Contradictions in the story? (2, Funny)

jemfinch (94833) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433061)

Let's take a closer look...

First, we have the story submitter saying this: "developers get together and concentrate on communication rather than just development."

And then we have Theo saying this: "developers suspend their lives for a week to focus entirely on just development."

Hmm...

Theo reminisces on the roots of OpenBSD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433067)

When I think of dirty old men, I think of OpenBSD. More specifically, I think of Ike Thomas and when I think about Ike I get a hard-on that won't quit.

Sixty years ago, I worked in what was once my Grandfather's Greenhouses. Gramps had died a year earlier and Grandma, now in her seventies had been forced to sell to the competition. I got a job with the new owners and mostly worked the range by myself. That summer, they hired a man to help me get the benches ready for the fall planting.

Ike always looked like he was three days from a shave and his whiskers were dirty white, shaded by the brim of his battered felt fedora.

He did not chew tobacco but the corners of his mouth turned down in a way that, at any moment, I expected a trickle of thin, brown juice to creep down his chin. His bushy, brown eyebrows shaded pale, gray eyes.

The old-timer extended his hand, lifted his leg like a dog about to mark a bush and let go the loudest fart I ever heard. The old fellow then winked at me, "Ike Thomas is the name and playing pecker's my game."

I thought he said, "Checkers." I was nineteen, green as grass. I said, "I was never much good at that game."

"Now me," said Ike, "I just love jumping men . . ."

"I'll bet you do."

". . . and grabbing on to their peckers," said Ike.

"I though we were talking about . . ."

"You like jumping old men's peckers?"

I shook my head.

"I reckon we'll have to remedy that." Ike lifted his right leg and let go another tremendous fart. "He said, "We best be getting to work."

That summer of 1941 was a more innocent time. I learned most of the sex I knew from those little eight pager cartoon booklets of comic-page characters going at it. Young men read them in the privacy of an outside john, played with themselves, by themselves and didn't brag about it. Sometimes, we got off with a trusted friend and helped each other out.

Under the greenhouse glass, the temperature sometimes climbed over the hundred degree mark. I had worked stripped to the waist since April and was as brown as a berry. On only his second day on the job and in the middle of August, Ike wore old fashioned overalls. Those and socks in his high-top work shoes was every stitch he wore. When he bent forward, the bib front billowed out and I could see the white curly hairs on his chest and belly.

"Me? I just love to eat pussy!" Ike licked his lips from corner to corner then sticking his tongue out far enough that the tip could touch the end of his nose. He said, A man's not a man till he knows first hand, the flavor of a lady's pussy."

"People do that?"

He winked. "Of course the taste of a hard cock ain't to be sneezed at neither. Now you answer me, yes or no. Does a man's cock taste salty or not?"

"I never . . ."

"Well, old Ike's willing to let you find out."

"No way."

"Just teasing," said Ike. "But don't give me no sass or I'll show you my ass." He winked. "Might show it to you anyway, if you was to ask."

"Why would I do that?"

"Curiosity, maybe. I'm guessing you never had a good piece of man ass."

"I'm no queer."

"Now don't be getting judgmental. Enjoying what's at hand ain't being queer. It's taking pleasure where you find it with anybody willing." Ike slipped a hand into the side slit of his overalls and I could tell he was fondling and straightening out his cock. "Now I admit I got me a hole that satisfied a few guys."

I swallowed, hard.

Ike winked. "Care to be asshole buddies?"

***

We worked steadily until noon. Ike drew a worn pocket watch from the bib pocket of his loose overalls and croaked, "Bean time. But first its time to reel out our limber hoses and make with the golden arches before lunch."

I followed Ike to the end of the greenhouse where he stopped at the outside wall of the potting shed. He opened his fly, fished inside, and finger-hooked a soft white penis with a pouting foreskin puckered half an inch past the hidden head.

"Yes sir," breathed Ike, "this old peter needs some draining." He exhaled a sigh as a strong, yellow stream splattered against the boards and ran down to soak into the earthen floor.

He caught me looking down at him. He winked. "Like what you're viewing, Boy?"

I looked away.

"You taking a serious interest in old Ike's pecker?"

I shook my head.

"Well you just haul out yourn and let old Ike return the compliment."

Feeling trapped and really having to go, I fumbled at my fly, turned away slightly, withdrew my penis and strained to start.

"Take your time boy. Let it all hang out. Old Ike's the first to admit that he likes looking at another man's pecker." He flicked away the last drop of urine and shook his limp penis vigorously.

I tried not to look interested.

"Yes sir, this old peepee feels so good out, I just might leave it out." He turned to give me a better view.

"What if somebody walks in?"

Ike shrugged. He looked at my strong yellow stream beating against the boards and moved a step closer. "You got a nice one,boy."

I glanced over at him. His cock was definitely larger and beginning to stick straight out. I nodded toward his crotch. "Don't you think you should put that away?"

"I got me strictly a parlor prick," said Ike. "Barely measures six inches." He grinned. "Of course it's big enough around to make a mouthful." He ran a thumb and forefinger along its length and drawing his foreskin back enough to expose the tip of the pink head. "Yersiree." He grinned, revealing nicotine stained teeth. "It sure feels good, letting the old boy breathe."

I knew I should button up and move away. I watched his fingers moving up and down the thickening column.

"You like checking out this old man's cock?"

I nodded. In spite of myself, my cock began to swell.

"Maybe we should have ourselves a little pecker pulling party." Ike slid his fingers back and forth on his expanding shaft and winked. "I may be old but I'm not against doing some little pud pulling with a friend."

I shook my head.

"Maybe I'll give my balls some air. Would you like a viewing of old Ike's hairy balls?"

I swallowed hard and moistened my dry lips.

He opened another button on his fly and pulled out his scrotum. "Good God, It feels good to set 'em free. Now let's see yours."

"Why?"

"Just to show you're neighborly," said Ike.

"I don't think so." I buttoned up and moved into the potting shed.

Ike followed, his cock and balls protruding from the front of his overalls. "Overlook my informality." Ike grinned. "As you can see I ain't bashful."

I nodded and took my sandwich from the brown paper bag.

"Yessir," said Ike. "I just might have to have myself an old fashioned peter pulling all by my lonesome. He unhooked a shoulder strap and let his overalls drop around his ankles.

I took a bite of my sandwich but my eyes remained on Ike.

"Yessiree," said Ike, "I got a good one if I do say so myself. Gets nearly as hard as when I was eighteen. You know why?"

I shook my head.

"Cause I keep exercising him. When I was younger I was pulling on it three time a day. Still like to do him every day I can."

"Some say you'll go blind if you do that too much."

"Bull-loney!" Don't you believe that shit. I been pulling my pud for close to fifty years and I didn't start till I was fifteen."

I laughed.

"You laughing at my little peter, boy?"

"Your hat." I pointed to the soiled, brown fedora cocked on his head. That and his overalls draped about his ankles were his only items of apparel. In between was a chest full of gray curly hair, two hairy legs. Smack between them stood an erect, pale white cock with a tip of foreskin still hiding the head.

"I am one hairy S.O.B.," said Ike.

"I laughed at you wearing nothing but a hat."

"Covers up my bald spot," said Ike. "I got more hair on my ass than I got on my head. Want to see?"

"Your head?"

"No, Boy, my hairy ass and around my tight, brown asshole." He turned, reached back with both hands and parted his ass cheeks to reveal the small, puckered opening. "There it is, Boy, the entrance lots of good feelings. Tell me, Boy, how would you like to put it up old Ike's ass?"

"I don't think so."

"That'd be the best damned piece you ever got."

"We shouldn't be talking like this."

"C'mon now, confess, don't this make your cock perk up a little bit?"

"I reckon," I confessed.

"You ever seen an old man's hard cock before," asked Ike.

"My grandpa's when I was twelve or thirteen."

"How'd that come about?"

He was out in the barn and didn't know I was around. He dropped his pants. It was real big he did things to it. He saw me and he turned around real fast but I saw it."

"What did your grandpa do?"

"He said I shouldn't be watching him doing that. He said something like grandma wouldn't give him some,' that morning and that I should get out of there and leave a poor man in peace to do what he had to do."

"Did you want to join him."

"I might have if he'd asked. He didn't."

"I like showing off my cock," said Ike. "A hard-on is something I always been proud of. A hard-on proves a man's a man. Makes me feel like a man that can do things." He looked up at me and winked. "You getting a hard-on from all this talk, son?"

I nodded and looked away.

"Then maybe you should pull it out and show old Ike what you got."

"We shouldn't."

"Hey. A man's not a man till he jacked off with a buddy."

I wanted to but I was as nervous as hell.

Ike grinned and fingered his pecker. "C'mon, Boy, between friends, a little cock showing is perfectly fine. Lets see what you got in the cock and balls department."

In spite of my reluctance, I felt the stirring in my crotch. I had curiosity that needed satisfying. It had been a long, long time since I had walked in on my grandfather .

"C'mon let's see it all."

I shook my head.

"You can join the party anytime, said Ike. "Just drop your pants and pump away."

I had the urge. There was a tingling in my crotch. My cock was definitely willing and I had a terrible need to adjust myself down there. But my timidity and the strangeness of it all held me back.

Hope you don't mind if I play out this hand." Ike grinned. "It feels like I got a winner."

I stared at his gnarled hand sliding up and down that pale, white column and I could not look away. I wet my lips and shook my head.

Old Ike's about to spout a geyser." Ike breathed harder as he winked. "Now if I just had a long finger up my ass. You interested, boy?"

I shook my head.

The first, translucent, white glob crested the top of his cock and and arced to the dirt floor. Ike held his cock at the base with thumb and forefinger and tightened noticeably with each throb of ejaculation until he was finished.

I could not believe any man could do what he had done in front of another human being.

Ike sighed with pleasure and licked his fingers. "A man ain't a man till he's tasted his own juices."

He squatted, turned on the faucet and picked up the connected hose. He directed the water between his legs and on to his still dripping prick and milked the few remaining drops of white, sticky stuff into the puddle forming at his feet. "Cool water sure feels good on a cock that just shot its wad," said Ike.

***

"Cock-tale telling time," said Old Ike. It was the next day and he rubbed the front of his dirty,worn overalls where his bulge made the fly expand as his fingers smoothed the denim around the outline of his expanding cock.

I wasn't sure what he had in mind but I knew it wasn't something my straight-laced Grandma would approve of.

"Don't you like taking your cock out and jacking it?" Ike licked his lips.

I shook my head in denial.

"Sure you do. A young man in his prime has got to be pulling his pud."

I stared at his calloused hand moving over the growing bulge at his crotch.

"Like I said," continued Ike, "I got me barely six inches when he's standing up." He winked at me. "How much you got, son?"

"Almost seven inches . . ." I stuttered. "Last time I measured."

"And I'm betting it feels real good with your fist wrapped around it."

"I don't do . . ."

"Everybody does it." He scratched his balls and said,"I'll show you mine if you show me yours." Then, looking me in the eye, he lifted his leg like a dog at a tree and let out a long, noisy fart.

Denying that I jacked off, I said, "I saw yours yesterday."

"A man has got to take out his pecker every once in a while." He winked and his fingers played with a button on his fly. Care to join me today?"

"I don't think so."

"What's the matter, boy? You ashamed of what's hanging 'tween your skinny legs?"

"It's not for showing off."

"That would be so with a crowd of strangers but with a friend, in a friendly showdown, where's the harm?

"It shouldn't be shown to other people. My Grandma said that a long time ago when I went to the bathroom against a tree when I was seven.

"There's nothing like a joint pulling among friends to seal a friendship," said Ike.

I don't think so." I felt very much, ill at ease.

"Then what the fuck is it for," demanded the old man. "A good man shares his cock with his friends. How old are you boy?"

"Nineteen almost twenty."

You ever fucked a woman?"

"No."

"Ever fucked a man?"

"Of course not.

"Son, you ain't never lived till you've fired your load up a man's tight ass."

"I didn't know men did that to each other."

"Men shove it up men's asses men all the time. They just don't talk about it like they do pussy."

"You've done that?"

"I admit this old pecker's been up a few manholes. More than a few hard cocks have shagged this old ass over the years." He shook his head, wistfully, "I still have a hankering for a hard one up the old dirt chute."

"I think that would hurt."

"First time, it usually does," agreed Ike. He took a bite from his sandwich.

I looked at my watch. Ten minutes of our lunch hour had already passed.

"We got time for a quickie," said Ike. "There's no one around to say, stop, if were enjoying ourselves."

He unhooked the slide off the button of one shoulder-strap, pushed the bib of his overalls down to let them fall to his feet.

"Showtime," said Ike. Between his legs, white and hairy, his semi-hard cock emerged from a tangled mass of brown and gray pubic hair. The foreskin, still puckered beyond the head of the cock, extended downward forty-five degrees from the horizontal but was definitely on the rise.

I could only stare at the man. Until the day before, I had never seen an older man with an erection besides my grandpa.

Ike moved his fingers along the stalk of his manhood until the head partially emerged, purplish and broad. He removed his hand for a moment and it bobbled obscenely in the subdued light of the potting shed. Ike leaned back against a bin of clay pots like a model on display. "Like I said, boy, it gets the job done."

I found it difficult not to watch. "You shouldn't . . ."

"C'mon, boy. Show Ike your pecker. I'm betting it's nice and hard."

I grasped my belt and tugged on the open end. I slipped the waistband button and two more before pushing down my blue jeans and shorts down in one move. My cock bounced and slapped my belly as I straightened."

"That's a beaut." Ike stroked his pale, white cock with the purplish-pink head shining. "I'm betting it'll grow some more if you stroke it."

"We really shouldn't . . ."

"Now don't tell me you never stroked your hard peter with a buddy."

"I've done that," I finally admitted,. "But he was the same age as me and it was a long time ago." I though back to the last time Chuck and me jerked each other off in the loft of our old barn. Chuck wanted more as a going away present and we had sucked each other's dicks a little bit.

"Jackin's always better when you do it with somebody," said Ike. "Then you can lend each other a helping hand."

"I don't know about that," I said.

Ike's hand continued moving on his old cock as he leaned over to inspect mine. "God Damn! Boy. That cock looks good enough to eat." Ike licked his lips. "You ever had that baby sucked?"

I shook my head as I watched the old man stroke his hard, pale cock.

"Well boy, I'd say you're packing a real mouthful for some lucky gal or guy." He grinned. "Well c'mon. Let's see you get down to some serious jacking. Old Ike's way ahead of you."

I wrapped my fist around my stiff cock and moved the foreskin up and over the head on the up stroke. On the down stroke the expanded corona of the angry, purple head stared obscenely at the naked old man.

Ike toyed with his modest six inches. "What do you think of this old man's cock?" His fist rode down to his balls and a cockhead smaller than the barrel stared back at mine.

"I guess I'm thinking this is like doing it with my grandpa."

"You ever wish you could a done this with your grandpa?"

"I thought about it a lot."

"Ever see him with a hard-on."

"I told you about that!"

"Ever think about him doing your grandma?"

"I can't imagine her ever doing anything with a man.

"Take my word for it, sonny, we know she did it or you wouldn't be here." Begrudgingly I nodded in agreement.

"Everybody fucks," said old Ike. "They fuck or they jack off."

"If you say so."

"Say sonny, your cocks getting real juicy with slickum. Want old Ike to lick some of it away?"

"You wouldn't."

Ike licked his lips as he kept his hand pistoning up and down his hard cock. "You might be surprised what old Ike might do if he was in the mood for a taste of what comes out of a hard cock."

And that is what he proceeded to do. He sucked me dry.

Then he erupted in half-a-dozen spurts shooting out and onto the dirt floor of the potting shed. He gave his cock a flip and shucked t back into his overalls. He unwrapped a sandwich from its wax paper and proceed to eat without washing his hands. He took a bite and chewed. "Nothing like it boy, a good jacking clears the cobwebs from your crotch and gives a man an appetite."

***

The following day, We skipped the preliminaries. We dropped our pants. Ike got down on his knees and sucked me until I was hard and good and wet before he stood and turned.

"C'mon boy, Shove that pretty cock up old Ike's tight, brown hole and massage old Ike's prostate.

Ike bent forward and gripped the edge of the potting bench. The lean, white cheeked buttocks parted slightly and exposed the dark brown, crinkly, puckered star of his asshole "Now you go slow and ease it along until you've got it all the way in," he cautioned. "This old ass craves your young cock but it don't want too much too soon. You've got to let this old hole stretch to accommodate you."

"Are you sure you want to do this?"

"Easy boy, easy," he cautioned. "You feel a lot bigger than you look. Put a little more spit in your cock."

"It's awfully tight. I don't know if it's going to go or not."

"It'll go," said Ike. "There's been bigger boys than you up the old shit chute."

I slipped in the the last few inches.. "It's all in."

"I can tell," said Ike. "Your cock hairs are tickling my ass."

"Are you ready," I asked.

"How are you liking old Ike's hairy asshole so far?"

"It's real tight."

"Tighter than your fist?"

"Might be."

"Ready to throw a fuck into a man that reminds you of your grandpa."

"I reckon."

"I want you should do old Ike one more favor."

"What?"

While you're pumpin' my ass, would you reach around and play with my dick like you would your own? Would you do that for an old man?"

I reached around and took hold of his hard cock sticking out straight in front of him. I pilled the skin back and then pulled it up and over the expanded glans. I felt my own cock expand inside him as I manipulated his staff in my fingers. I imagined that my cock extended through him and I was playing with what came out the other side of him.

"C'mon, boy, ram that big cock up the old shitter and make me know it. God Damn! tickle that old prostate and make old Ike come!"

I came. And I came. Ike's tightened up on my cock and I throbbed Roman Candle bursts into that brown hole as I pressed into him. His hairy, scrawny ass flattened against my crotch and we were joined as tightly as two humans can be.

"A man's not a man till he's cum in another man." said old Ike. "You made it, boy. But still, a man's not a man till he's had a hard cock poked up his ass at least once."

Every time I think of that scene, I get another hard-on. Then I remember the next day when old Ike returned the favor.

I never have managed to come that hard again. If only Ike were here.

Plone just held a week-long sprint (1)

jdstahl (173821) | more than 8 years ago | (#15433088)

Sounds like Theo doesn't know about the Plone [plone.org] community, which just wrapped up their week-long "Archipelago Sprint" [plone.org] on a Norwegian island to drive forward development of the next major release of the most kick-ass open-source CMS on the planet.

Re:Plone just held a week-long sprint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433344)

I hate to break it to you buddy, no, I take that back, I not only don't hate it, I relish in being the one to tell you that plone is just some stupid little script.

There is no merit in something that stupid and insignificant, there are much bigger things in the world than shitty little scripts. Perhaps Theo doesn't know about something so small and useless?

Maybe, just maybe, the world doesn't care about garbage like plone?

test (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433158)

test firewall test

Re:test (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15443445)

No route to host.

You insensi7ive clod!? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15433637)

reciproc"atin#g

wth?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15437006)

Hoompah!

OpenBSD code auditing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441920)

I know this is somewhat offtopic, but...

Much of the purpose of OpenBSD's code auditing is getting rid of buffer overflows. But buffer overflows are basically a byproduct of C arrays. Considering that computers these days are significantly faster than they were when the C language was originally written, wouldn't OpenBSD be well-served by porting itself to something like Cyclone [att.com] ?

Cyclone programs do have bounds-checking, and so they'll be a bit slower than C programs, but that seems like a small price to pay for a /guarantee/ that your code will be safe. Then OpenBSD developers can spend their time optimizing their code for efficiency, with the knowledge that it's perfectly secure... which is much better than having to optimize for both efficiency and security at the same time, no?

Re:OpenBSD code auditing (1)

DashEvil (645963) | more than 8 years ago | (#15448344)

Security is a process, a state of mind, not a product.

Buffer Overflows are not the only kinds of programming errors that make something insecure. Besides, between ProPolice and all the memory protection OpenBSD ships with I seriously doubt that Buffer Overflows affect it anyway.... but, again, they are bugs, and bugs should be squashed, even if they cause no harm.

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