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Tom's Hardware Looks at Microsoft Vista Beta

timothy posted more than 8 years ago | from the no-not-the-vista dept.

338

RockClimbingFool writes "Tom's Hardware has a pretty good overview of what the current beta version of Microsoft Windows Vista has to offer. The article is written from an average user's perspective, specifically highlighting exactly which differences the average computer user can expect to see from Windows XP to Windows Vista. It covers everything from IE7, to the new Windows Aero interface, to brand new games." But if you'd like your eye candy open source and downloadable now, check out Lunapark6's review of the current version of Ubuntu Dapper, with "emphasis placed on helping someone set up the system for everyday desktop usage."

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Can we leave the politics out of it? (3, Insightful)

Infernal Device (865066) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440976)

Nice article posting, but was it necessary to shill for Ubuntu as part of the post? Advocacy is one thing, but it's really starting to get out of hand around here.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (-1, Offtopic)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440984)

I was about to say the same thing.

You know, there are those of us who use more than one operating system.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441044)

My virus detector went crazy when I went to the Ubuntu link. bloodhound.exploit.56 just thought people should know.

Neu

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

kongit (758125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441259)

Mine goes crazy when I got to www.microsoft.com. of course my virus scanner is in my head as I don't run one in linux.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441062)

bad thing for MS XGL seems to be required for a distro to be one of the "Cool Kids"
(though
a Some distros are playing "CandyMan"
b Some distros are going for the "crackers" approach
)

This is a bad thing since Vista seems to be slotting a June? 07 so XGL and friends will be "old news" by then

Has somebody solved the ati/nvidia driver funk with livecds yet??

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441151)

Has somebody solved the ati/nvidia driver funk with livecds yet??

AFAIK, its still a matter of booting into "safe mode" and then doing a dpkg-reconfigure (or a hand-edit of /etc/X11/xorg.conf) after downloading fglrx or the nvidia proprietary driver. I'm assuming you tried the release candidate. I never got past beta 2. Here's to hoping they'll fix it in a few hours.

I liked it (1)

Mateo_LeFou (859634) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441063)

But yeah, it was out of place. Wow, I should get a levelheadedness record.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

bsartist (550317) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441073)

Starting to get out of hand? Where have you been?

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (5, Informative)

RockClimbingFool (692426) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441082)

Yeah, my submission was only the italizied part. That other garbage is just submission crapping.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

RockClimbingFool (692426) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441107)

I just noticed its also filed under Linux. Nice, very nice.

Not Necessary but Useful (3, Informative)

this great guy (922511) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441137)

Necessary I don't know, but it is useful because so many people out there are totally unaware of the great features offered by alternative OSes. Regarding Ubuntu, in no particular order: Aero-like features already available via Xgl (while Vista is not yet released), centralized package management system, 1-click full system update and security patches installation (under Windows, MS-only software is upgraded), generally easier to use than Windows (according to one of my family member who is an average desktop computer user), easy to install, no drivers to download from the hardware vendors (the kernel recognize everything by default), etc.

Re:Not Necessary but Useful (2, Insightful)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441166)

Necessary I don't know, but it is useful because so many people out there are totally unaware of the great features offered by alternative OSes.

Out there is not in here. The typical /. denizen is more than aware of the alternatives.

Re:Not Necessary but Useful (4, Insightful)

Columcille (88542) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441276)

If you really believe all those points, then I don't think you've used Linux for very much or on sophisticated hardware. XGL support, while looking good, is buggy and immature, not all software is under the package manager and updating manually installed software can be a pain, easier to use than Windows? On what world? For many basic tasks I could agree that the ease-of-use is probably about even, but I wouldn't call Ubuntu easier. Easy to install? On this one I think Windows still remains quite easier, even if Dapper does bring with it a lot of improvements. No drivers? The kernel has come a long way, but there is still quite a bit it doesn't know. I've never installed Linux for desktop use that I didn't have to spend quite a bit of time making all the hardware work right. Ubuntu is doing a lot to make it easier for the average user to use Linux, but it's still got a long way to go before ease of use can compare to Windows.

Re:Not Necessary but Useful (5, Informative)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441373)

I've never installed Linux for desktop use that I didn't have to spend quite a bit of time making all the hardware work right.

Funny, I re-installed XP only 6 months ago and had to spend hours just getting the OS up and running with updates and drivers and such. Then another several hours putting on applications such as Visual Studio, OpenOffice, Firefox, etc, and I'm not including games. Just over the weekend I installed Fedora Core 5 and after an install that took less time than Windows I spent about 1 hour running the updates and had myself a usable workstation, with Anjuta, OpenOffice, Firefox (with plugins), etc. And no, this isn't new hardware. All my hardware was purchased before Windows XP was released, so the age of the OSs shouldn't be a problem when it comes to drivers.

But maybe you were counting customizing the look and feel. Because most distros don't come with Nerzhul as the destop wallpaper I had to do that, whereas for windows it's just the blank blue for me. So yeah, you have to spend a little time customizing Linux, but at least you can do it, whereas for Windows you get what they decide looks nice to the eyes.

In case anyone is wondering, Nerzhul goes on Linux [fedoraforum.org] because I can make everything blend in better with a dark wallpaper, whereas the simple blue on Windows blends in better with the blue-ish theme in XP.

Re:Not Necessary but Useful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441360)

Haha "easy to install!" Maybe you missed the 30 lines of sudo apt-get to get Ubuntu optimized? And "no drivers to download?!?" Sure, if you don't count finding the Windows driver and then configuring ndiswrapper to get wireless to work. Oh, that's right, you don't have to do that if you go out and find a Linux-friendly peripheral. Yeah, I can see a lot of people would love to be made aware of these great features.

Blame the Editors (1)

VividU (175339) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441149)

Look at the icon for this story. Broken Windows. And it's been six years since the release of the ultra stable Win2K and five since XP.

The editors have made a decision to foster this attitude which is no wonder we're still burdened with tragically unfunny blue screen and clippy jokes. Is this to their benefit or loss? I don't know.

To paraphrase what they used to say about IBM (4, Funny)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441230)

Nobody ever lost their job at Slashdot for dissing Windows.

Re:To paraphrase what they used to say about IBM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441296)

I'm pretty sure nobody ever actually lost his job at Slashdot, period.

They're not exactly picky.

the real scary part is... (1)

miro f (944325) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441249)

Did anyone here actually click that Ubuntu link?

Why is there an Internet Explorer icon on the Ubuntu 6.06 desktop?

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441258)

I agree, that was a pretty shameless plug. Where is the option to rate the article? -1 offtopic

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441331)

Lol i just noticed something leaving the site, It's not offtopic. Apparently Toms testsing the new windows goes under the linux section in /.

Re:Can we leave the politics out of it? (1)

recharged95 (782975) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441404)

Ubuntu -- Looks just like SuSE 10.1 with XGL. Nothing new here...

40 pages (2, Informative)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440979)

Yippee....

Wow. (1, Flamebait)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440982)

What a shitty plug for Ubuntu. I think timothy should be shot. Anyone second this motion?

Competing hot tag (1)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440983)

I like how clicking the link "operating system" in an article about Vista brought up a mini-advert for Sun.

Re:Competing hot tag (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441026)

I like how the article about Vista was accompanied by a mini-advert for Ubuntu.

Come on, Timmy, you know eleventy billion people are going to submit a "ZOMG Dapper is out!" story as soon as it hits the servers. Just give it some time...

Re:Competing hot tag (1)

iced_773 (857608) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441375)


You must be new here.

They will post a story on the release of Dapper, if only to give us all a chance to cry DUPE!!!11!!!11!1 [slashdot.org]

Re:Competing hot tag (1)

fastgood (714723) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441064)

an article about Vista brought up a mini-advert for Sun.

Sun has money for ads, but are now laying off 5000 workers? That's over 13% of their workforce.
I guess I'll be purchasing 13% less SUN servers next quarter to help them maintain...

I Hate Toms... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15440986)

FTFA:

"Microsoft's new Vista is surprisingly entertaining. The new look of the operating system is good, and lets it outshine its Linux and Mac OS competitors. One notices repeatedly while working with this software that Microsoft scoped out its competition very carefully"

Read: We're a bunch of tools, and it's pretty obvious Microsoft copied every major feature in Vista from either OS X or Linux.

Re:I Hate Toms... (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441274)

I don't know about OS X, but I'm not aware of any great GUI feature that Linux has introduced.

Virtual Desktops (1)

vhogemann (797994) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441353)

Ok, not Linux... but come on! How people can use any graphical interface without Virtual Desktops!?!

Re:Virtual Desktops (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441369)

"How people can use any graphical interface without Virtual Desktops!?!"

Easily. There's still a lot of people out there that think they have to shut down one application before launching another. I can easily imagine them switching from virtual desktop to virtual desktop closing applications as they go.

Re:I Hate Toms... (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441357)

Well, Linux and OSX made the command line trendy again!

Re:I Hate Toms... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441393)

Um, how about the actual design of the Minimize, Maximize, and Close buttons that were taken from a Gnome 2.4 theme and put in Aero.

By the way, by taken, I mean including sizes where close is twice the width of any others, the buttons are half the height of the titlebar and stretch off the top with slight roll over color variations. Check out an old Redhat 5 CD, believe the theme was "Glow".

It was good enough for Microsoft to copy ~5 years down the line after most people have forgotten about it...

Re:I Hate Toms... (1)

iced_773 (857608) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441403)


I don't see how attempting to outshine translates to copy. If someone has a good || successful idea, it's only human nature to try to imitate it.

The sad thing is, such mindless slashbotism such as the parent is probably going to be modded Insightful.

Give me a break (4, Insightful)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440987)

But if you'd like your eye candy open source and downloadable now, check out Lunapark6's review of the current version of Ubuntu Dapper, with "emphasis placed on helping someone set up the system for everyday desktop usage."

And this is relevant to the article how ... ?

It does nothing good for the Open Source movement to desperately insert some plug at any opportunity. It just reinforces the notion that it *needs* the desperation (which may not be false, but that's another subject). See also: religious cults, Amway (or any MLM), smokers who quit, Libertarians, and the Apple Macintosh. If people just want you to Shut Up Already, you're not helping your pet movement.

I understand the bias but.. (4, Insightful)

Spytap (143526) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440988)

But if you'd like your eye candy open source and downloadable now... Now I understand the Slashdot bias, but some of us are just genuinely interested in the progression of computing; and yes, a new version of Windows qualifies. Not EVERY article needs to be an ad for Linux. Yes, I tried it, and yes it was neat. That's...well, that's pretty much it. I'm still going to use a Mac, I'm still going to dual-boot Windows when needed, and I'm still going to be interested in occasionally reading articles that don't mention Linux whenever the words "operating system" appear...

Re:I understand the bias but.. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441057)

THere is no bias; it's the Slashdot redesign. The new CSS has collapsible sections, and whenever there is a mention of Microsoft or OS the article expands to show whatever Linux distro has just been released. For balanced news reporting, and all that.

Re:I understand the bias but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441308)

Right on! I have noticed that some of the "Mac Nazis" seem to be strict single operating system users. Now OS X is great but like All the operating systems I use and have tried I can find things I like and don't like about any of them, and yes plenty about Microshit, and with Apple the lack of hardware freedom. I guess I enjoy trying new things but freaking out every time Microsoft does anything and insisting that everyone buy Mac and forget about everything else is not very constructive

Still a turd (-1, Flamebait)

cerebraldebris (898818) | more than 8 years ago | (#15440992)

I said it once before. Got modded as flamebait, but I gotta say it again. You can put all the whipped cream, nuts and hot fudge on it that you want. Even a cherry on top. No matter how pretty you make it, a turd is still just a turd.

Re:Still a turd (1)

fuzzyfozzie (978329) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441024)

Come on, stop talking about Ubuntu like that. :)

Re:Still a turd (0)

cerebraldebris (898818) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441066)

touche... (pardon my french)

Re:Still a turd (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441244)

I'd slap you for that, but with the default theme they ask for that. First thing I did when I got dapper was fire up firefox in search any other theme but that.

1 page version (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441001)

I hope you read fast (2, Interesting)

patio11 (857072) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441164)

That page, for some unaccountable reason, will get META-refreshed into an ad after about 5 seconds, and will NOT take you back to the page afterwards.

This site has quite possibly committed the worst sins of "maximizing advertising revenue at the expense of usability" of any site I would ever admit to browsing of (admit, mind you).

Re:I hope you read fast (1)

Sporkinum (655143) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441303)

With adblock and filterset.g and blocked cookies all my defaults, it worked fine for me with no meta-refresh and crap. The article was worthless however.

Re:I hope you read fast (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441436)

NoScript [mozilla.org] is your friend

Re:1 page version (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441175)

I love you.

Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (4, Insightful)

yagu (721525) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441004)

Well I was able to get through about 30 pages of this "review" and pretty much gave up. Hundreds of screen captures of Vista "stuff" with a caption describing said capture does not a review make.

So, I went to the last page to work my way back for summary and recommendation info. Turns out, last page is the summary. Save yourself some time, the gist of this article is:

Microsoft's new Vista is surprisingly entertaining. The new look of the operating system is good, and lets it outshine its Linux and Mac OS competitors. One notices repeatedly while working with this software that Microsoft scoped out its competition very carefully.

This is a review?

Re:Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (5, Funny)

CtrlPhreak (226872) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441031)

Yeah it's a great review! I was on the edge of my seat when they were going through how they changed the look and feel of the newest and greatest parts of windows, solitare and minesweeper! I just can't wait to get my hands on a copy of vista now that I know that they've updated the card games to look flashier! I can't see how OS X can hope to compete against a (for the first time ever mind you) completly reworked version of Spider Solitare.

Re:Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (4, Funny)

abscissa (136568) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441206)

Personally, I am looking forward to the Windows gadgets. I mean what a great idea!! Who could have thought of something so ingenius...

Re:Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (3, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441068)

This is a review?

Welcome to Intarweb 2.0

KFG

Re:Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (1)

Burlappin (813540) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441243)

Interesting point, however it seems the review writer doesn't realise that Apple sells hardware, hence Windows actually isn't competition for OS X. That's why Apple released bootcamp, OS X is just a reason to get people to buy their hardware.

And I think the people who want to use OS X aren't doing it just for the eyecandy. I know I didn't.

Re:Vista review? or tutorial? WTF? (4, Interesting)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441362)

Microsoft's new Vista is surprisingly entertaining. The new look of the operating system is good, and lets it outshine its Linux and Mac OS competitors. One notices repeatedly while working with this software that Microsoft scoped out its competition very carefully.

I wish they'd made an argument or two to support that conclusion. After reading TFA (or rather looking at it, it's very low-wordage), I have come to the conclusion that it has a very nice user interface, it will be easier for average people to use, and if the security features work as advertised, they might have that particular problem licked. I think it will also spur the Windows fanboys to make hundreds of pronouncements about Vista's unquestioned superiority over Mac OS X, on the basis of two interlocking arguments:

  • Windows Vista matches Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's user interface, almost feature for feature.
  • Vista can run more programs.

These things given, Vista is a better operating system. But...

  1. Whatever claims MS had to being a leading force in usability and human interface, they have relinquished them. Vista represents no objective improvement on what others did years ago, and most of the big questions that float around a usability engineer's head nowadays involve CSS and XML, not buttons and sliders. Thus...
  2. It not clear that MS will even be putting more work into their OS over the next 2-3 years, since they're going to be turning the whole ship around and start bearing down on "Windows Live" and Internet featurism, built atop Vista's able platform. I personally think they're overreacting to the whole google thing. BillG used to say that the desktop was their platform, but that all has gone out the window since they're losing ground in the Internet.
  3. If things go well for Apple and badly for MS, Vista and OS X 10.5 could release in the same basic timeframe, and MS appears to have almost destroyed itself to get this thing out the door (I see no Apple employees writing anonymous blogs about how everyone should be fired).

I think BillG and SteveB are convinced that MS will become the American Megatrends of the Internet-connected future if they don't take the lead and kill Google, which is causing them to gamble big on web services -- I just don't see such things as the end-all that the Win32 OS is.

If MS really wanted to make money off web services, they'd fully adopt open web standards, and then buy a telco or 3.

2 cents

Technology (0)

gaanagaa (784648) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441018)

Windows NT built on Empty technology Windows 2000 built on NT technology Windows XP built on Win2k technology Windows Vista built on XP technology Whats new?

Give me that Empty Technology! (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441304)

Hey if I could make as much money as MS has on Windows since introducing NT, I'd be happy to build a product on Empty technology.

Hey Jed, why you writin' so slow? (2, Funny)

sudotcsh (95997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441025)

I'm assuming there aren't any +5 comments yet because everyone is still busy R'ing TFA, right?

Re:Hey Jed, why you writin' so slow? (1)

HTL2001 (836298) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441154)

reading?? firefox's repagination is still loading the pages...

but realy, this is re-freaking-tarded. Last 3 posts of tomshardware on /. have been increasing in page numbers...

Screenshots and nothing more (2, Interesting)

0xA (71424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441028)

It's just a collection of screenshots, there is no content that actually explains anything. The entire first page on explorer has 5 pictures of somebody doing a file copy! If you are going to take screenshots make them of something that has actually changed or is interesting.

Oh and typical Tom's 40 pages of screen shots means 40x the ad revenue [next].

If this is the best... keep trying. (5, Insightful)

mad.frog (525085) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441029)

No big deal to fix though. All I had to do was edit the xorg.conf found in /etc/X11 and change the driver from nvidia to vesa.

I stopped reading when I got to this point.

If this is supposed to be "Linux For The Masses" and it (1) can't recognize common commodity video cards correctly, and (2) requires you to hand-edit a config file to correct the situation...

Well, let's just say I won't be recommending it to Mom anytime soon.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

SaDan (81097) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441050)

Yup, ran into this problem installing 6.06 LTS RC this past weekend on an ATI based system. Ubuntu is freakin' sweet, once it's up and running. The installer leaves very much to be desired, as it is fairly inflexible.

All that said, I found out AFTER I did the install that the "alternative" installation CD offers a text based installer. D'oh.

They should be very much upfront with the fact the graphical installer is horribly busted for modern ATI and nVidia video cards, and direct users with said video cards to the text installer.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441071)

I've had continuing problems with my X1600.

I found the best bet was to either do a text install or boot in "safe graphics" mode and then grab the fglrx driver and do a "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg". Even then, I'm not very impressed with fglrx anyway. Its incredibly unstable. I suppose thats what I get for buying ATI.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441181)

I've had better luck with the glrfnks driver, myself. Do a xorg-xorg-fsck on my PX1900 card, swap out the optical drive for an RMX3000, and xwrite the installer to main memory and the stability is much improved. ...sorry, I had to do that...

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

SaDan (81097) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441197)

I haven't had any problems with stability using the driver package supplied by ATI under Slackware, Ubuntu, or CentOS. Give that a shot if you haven't already.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

cakeypower (957637) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441128)

So your mom would have an easier time installing windows?

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (4, Informative)

mad.frog (525085) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441143)

So your mom would have an easier time installing windows?

Well, yes, most likely.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

cakeypower (957637) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441194)

She would know where to get drivers for her video card? What antivirus/firewall to buy/download and how to update them? How long do you think her computer would be running before she runs in to problems? lol

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441387)

I think the "NVIDIA DRIVER DISC" and "SOUND BLASTER" logos marking CD's would tip them off a bit. I forgot linux users evolved beyond the use of vendor supplied driver discs. Easy mistake.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (-1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441200)

>So your mom would have an easier time installing windows? >Well, yes, most likely.

Bullshit. Windows installs are not newb-friendly at all. She'd definately need help when it came to the partitioning part, because Windows only offers manual partitioning and featureless manual partitioning at that (no resizing of partitions, etc). Then there's the issue of drivers. Ubuntu recognizes all of my hardware on install, but XP doesn't even recognize my ethernet. Yeah, a newb is going to figure out what drivers are and where to find them and how to install them, sure.

The author had a rather unique and complex hardware problem. Any OS can have wierd hardware problems. If you don't want to mess with wierd hardware problems then you can always buy a system with that OS preinstalled. Here's some suggestions for Linux:
http://www.koobox.com/ [koobox.com]
http://system76.com/ [system76.com]

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (1)

halfcuban (972832) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441210)

I wouldn't recommend any computer OS to my Mom. All of them are peachy keen and fine as long as the auto-installers and other automatic configuration tools keep things on an even keel, but they all start going goofy the moment something doesn't match up. That said, of all the OS to have to go in and fix, I would argue Linux is the best since most of the stuff is in easily edited configuration files and the like, and not some oft-sketchy GUI tool.

Re:If this is the best... keep trying. (5, Insightful)

Mr_Tulip (639140) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441239)

To be honest, I doubt that I would ever give my mum a computer and tell her to install the OS herself.

More likely, I'd just set it up, plug it in and show her where 'the internet' is.

You must be rich (1)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441251)

Because that could be the fastest $200/cost of Vista I've ever made.

Oh yeah, you have to replace one word in one config file. If people can't do this, they deserve to shell out money for over-expensive crap like Vista.

Re:You must be rich (1)

Zaphod2016 (971897) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441316)

That attitude is the first thing the Linux community needs to overcome if they wish to be percieved as a true alternative to OSX or XP.

That's the blessing and curse of GPL (1)

TheAxeMaster (762000) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441327)

The only reason you have to do this is because ATi and nVidia (and seriously, what's with the F'd up capitalization people!) won't release their drivers as open source. Since Linux is all GPL'd, it can't be distributed with software that won't include its source code. So the graphics drivers have to remain a seperate process. So don't blame Linux, blame your graphics card makers.
 
Now, I don't really see why someone who knew what they were doing (read: not me) could make a shell script that would properly edit the config files and do the install properly for such a unified distro as ubuntu and pack it into the ubuntu package manager, but I digress...

Issues (4, Interesting)

imcclell (138690) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441036)

The windows vista still has some major issues. I understand that it's just a beta, but there are still some major bugs to be worked out.

Current Problems:

1) Not all wmv, avi, or mpegs play properly. Some of them can take 5-10 minutes to load and then give an error. The exact same file plays flawlessly in XP

2) IE 7 needs has some compatibility issues. I understand that some pages have issues as they were designed for IE 6, but when Firefox and Opera render them correctly, that's an issue

3) The new file system.....garbage......I don't need to be babied. The simplified file system is nice for normal users, but I want an option to have full control over my file system.

4) I like the fact that an instance of a program dies when an error occurs, instead of the whole file system, but an error message would be nice.

5) Sometimes when the processor usage gets high the screen goes black and won't revert back. That may need to be fixed.

There are some nice features, but they have a lot of work to do before this thing is ready.

Actual article subtitle (1)

fastgood (714723) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441040)

'Nine More Months Until Windows Vista Goes Live'

It's a good thing that Redmond isn't in South Dakota [google.com]

Is it THAT hard for Tom's (2, Funny)

thewldisntenuff (778302) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441051)

to put the WHOLE DAMNED REVIEW on ONE FUCKING PAGE?!? I'm still digging because there are 40 pages to this stupid article!

XP released in 2002? (3, Informative)

RustNeverSleeps (846857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441053)

Quote from the article:
Today's still-current Windows XP was initially released in 2002, which means that operating system is now pushing five years old.
IIRC, Windows XP was released in the fall of 2001. The Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] on Windows XP confirms this. It was released on October 25, 2001. XP is close to 5 years old, even closer than the article says.

First thing (4, Interesting)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441060)


The first things I notice:

1.) This review is forty pages. Thanks, toms hardware [next] for really cashing [next] in on those ad [next] impressions. They've been doing this for years, and if they didn't actually have substance to their reviews, it would be remarkably annoying. Err. Something.

2.) The very first screenshots of the Aero vs. Vista Basic interfaces look identical. Just to make sure, I loaded them up in photoshop. The "preview" window is exactly the same between the two. What?

Still reading...

Re:First thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441322)

The very first screenshots of the Aero vs. Vista Basic interfaces look identical. Just to make sure, I loaded them up in photoshop. The "preview" window is exactly the same between the two. What?

The previews are the same, but the Appearance Settings windows themselves are different.

Cue Pirate Bay Joke, 3, 2, 1... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441061)

But if you'd like your eye candy ... downloadable now...

There's Pirate Bay [slashdot.org] . Oh, wait...

So... (2, Interesting)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441086)

If I'm not up to "read" 40 pages of screenshots, what, besides gfx of the UI (which has been already backported to XP as "skins") has changed in Windows?
Oh, Vista-only apps. Yay. Now why won't they work in XP? Some essential feature of XP missing? Or just to boost Vista sales? Want new game? Buy new Windows. And of course a new computer, because even if your current hardware could handle the gfx of the game if it was running under XP, it won't handle compound load of the game and Vista.

Re:So... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441157)

If I'm not up to "read" 40 pages of screenshots, what, besides gfx of the UI (which has been already backported to XP as "skins") has changed in Windows?

A rather extensive list can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windo ws_Vista [wikipedia.org] . Some notable features include:
-New network stack
-New audio stack
-New driver framework
-New printing architecture
-New windowing system (DWM)

There are a substantial number of 'behind the scenes' changes in Vista. But for some reason the Slashdot crowd seems to think that the UI is the only thing that's changed. Oh well.

Re:So... (5, Insightful)

jalefkowit (101585) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441365)

Now why won't they work in XP? Some essential feature of XP missing?

Congratulations, you've just discovered how all of us who run Windows 2000 have been feeling for the last few years.

Microsoft has been holding back features from Win2000 for ages to encourage uptake of XP. Perhaps the most annoying example is their ClearType screen-font technology for LCDs; ClearType is XP-only, for reasons that I've never found particularly compelling. And the last two versions of Windows Media Player have been XP-only too. There's no reason that stuff couldn't be made to run on XP, given that XP is just 2000 with a facelift; so it's no surprise that they would pull the same act with Vista.

Eye candy few will see (1)

Kilz (741999) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441119)

I have seen a lot of these Windoz reviews, showing off the Fancy graphics and transparent windows. Sadly few people without new or super system will ever see the fancy graphics and transparent windows. Last I read it will take the newest video card and over a gig of ram to run anything. Joe average will buy the upgrade, then find out that his computer wont look the same after its installed I bet.

Are you shitting me? (4, Insightful)

Phanatic1a (413374) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441121)

40 pages?

Fourty. Fucking. Pages?

Look, Tom's hardware used to be a useful site. It's not anymore. Stop posting their paginated ad-cancer garbage until they realize that so long as they make their stuff intentionally difficult to read, people won't read it.

Re:Are you shitting me? (1)

TouchOfRed (785130) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441295)

I believe their reasoning behind this was that since its a picture book you can have 1 or 2 pictures per page.

I see Aero.
Go Aero Go!

I see Widgets.
Go Widgets Go!

I see IE7.
Go IE7 Go!

Unfortunatly dialup doesnt fair too well with their site so ill be unable to complete my synopsis of the article.

Thats good (1)

ems2 (976335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441126)

because deleting a shortcut is just a few clicks away [reddit.com] .

The installation takes up 10 GB? (1)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441160)

That is the ultimate edition. I wonder how much space other editions will take up? And I don't suppose the installer lets you choose which components you want to install? Also, are Windows Server versions usable as desktop operating systems?

Re:The installation takes up 10 GB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441241)

I thought I heard that the serial key you imput will dictate which version of Vista will be installed. I may be wrong.

Is this really enough? (5, Interesting)

pestilence669 (823950) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441198)

I've been suffering XP for almost six years now. Is this beta going to define Windows for the NEXT six years? If so, I'm unimpressed.

Don't get me wrong. I welcome a much needed update to Windows. The features of Vista, however, aren't quite wowing me. The performance should be worse than XP given the heaftier requirements. There's still no WinFS, promised back in '96. The Win64 API is pretty bad (I'm a developer). Other than eye candy and clones of the most popular Mac OS features, what will I be getting for my money?

Stability, performance, and enterprise features are what I want... not an updated Minesweeper. Will the Bluetooth protocol stack be less problematic than XP's? I hope so. Will they support WPA2 natively, without 170MB of updates? Will IPV6 be native? How about IPSEC support? Will it actually work this time? How bad is the new Windows shell? Is it close enough to Bash or even csh to be useful? What's Task Manager like? Do I still have to wait seconds for it to appear when a process runs amok? Does the UI remain responsive during heavy calculations (I do a lot of 3D)? Can I install games without worrying about which version of DirectX is installed? Will the new version of Office install things I'll have to disable, like toolbars, fast find, and Word integration into Outlook express? Do I still need to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to do things?

These reviews rarely touch on any issue that's actually important to me. Yes, it looks pretty and it should dammit. But does it work as well as it looks? That's what really matters. Microsoft keeps pulling features and slipping the release date. I doubt the reviewers remember Cairo.

I beta tested Windows 95 / Chicago and recall how slow that thing was. The production release was hardly much faster, despite the assurances. In fact, the beta versions of Windows 95 ran more stable, IMO. The graphics were even slicker. I ran Win95 beta until Microsoft shipped OSR2. It was a matter of necessity.

When will Ars Technica do a thorough review? That I might be interested in.

Re:Is this really enough? (0, Troll)

robogun (466062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441281)

I just wanted to say thanks for an ontopic comment.

Everyone else: Ubuntu plug!!1! blah blah blah 40 FICKING PAGES!! blah blah blah

Re:Is this really enough? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441398)

Yeh, I can answer some of these questions (this is all publicly available stuff):

> Will the Bluetooth protocol stack be less problematic than XP's? I hope so.

Yes, they've expanded profile support substantially.

> Will they support WPA2 natively, without 170MB of updates?

You bet.

> Will IPV6 be native?

Yes -- IPv6 is a first class citizen in Vista, the entire OS has been scrubbed for v6 blockers, and they actively want people running v6 only during the betas (since it's expected to be a major use case in certain environments).

> How about IPSEC support? Will it actually work this time?

It should. Remove the firewall block, and it should Just Work anywhere you like. You _do_ have to Opt-In though.

> How bad is the new Windows shell?

MONAD is hardcore. I was dismissing it until I got the low-voice, "no dude, you _need_ to spend a day with it" thing from someone I respected. It's an utter tragedy that it's not inbox, especially considering how much else still is. *sighs*

> Is it close enough to Bash or even csh to be useful?

It's different. Very arguably better, in a non-textual world.

> What's Task Manager like? Do I still have to wait seconds for it to appear when a process runs amok?

No, it's just as annoying. What's the use of a high priority screen to spawn task manager if you're still stuck fighting with your broken process? Grrr.

> Does the UI remain responsive during heavy calculations (I do a lot of 3D)?

Perf is a big question right now. Everyone's running debug builds so crashes can actually be traced back.

> Can I install games without worrying about which version of DirectX is installed?

DX10, with a big ol' DX9 compat layer.

> Will the new version of Office install things I'll have to disable, like toolbars, fast find, and Word integration into Outlook express?

Unknown.

> Do I still need to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to do things?

I hit it all the time to pull up Task Manager and Switch User.

Re:Is this really enough? (1)

Oink (33510) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441432)

I honestly thought I was the only person that ran Win95 beta well into the release cycle. I also thought it was considerably more stable than the final candidate.

Road apple (0, Flamebait)

aphaenogaster (884935) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441208)

Forty pages of the same crap we have now with XP. Yeck. Talk about a company playing catchup and not doing well. And just because this qoute is too good not to be recycled.... "Putting Windows on DOS is like putting whipped cream on a road apple" -McNealy I dont think much has changed. All I see is whipped cream now, and apple makes much better eye candy than this. (for those who dont know what a road apple is...http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?ter m=road+apple)

ReactOS 0.3 (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15441242)

You know, Windows has some legacy junk, which hopefully
ReactOS(or a fork of it, once it is stable) will address/remove.

  * DOS back slashes. Internet/C/UNIX slashes should be used. While windows internally understands '/' in filenames, many command utilities rely on '/' for flags.
  * Two char dos new line. There is no real reason to keep using \r\n in text files to represent a new line. It wastes one byte for every line of every text file.
  * Drive Letters are an obsolete and limiting concept. a 'fstab', simple drive labling, or windows junction points can all replace these 24 single letter drive names.
  * A real console/terminal window. Yes, an xterm or similar that has real scroll bars, real cut/pass, understands terminal protocols and has a 'curses' interface that lets you run console apps locally or remotely.

Not Gonna Happen (5, Insightful)

foo fighter (151863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441265)

So, I'm a tech security consultant.

I only bring it up because it means I see about a zillion different companies and talk to their IT Directors/CIOs/Whatevers, Fortune 500 down to Dave's Community Bank-member FDIC, every week.

They are all Microsoft shops. Yeah, they have some small-u unix boxes (various flavors of linux, bsd, solaris, or etc.) running important stuff. But the core of their network, the centralized authentication servers and groupware servers (read Active Directory and Exchange) -- which means their app servers are typically Microsoft-based even if their DB and web servers aren't -- serve the core of what they do.

None of them have any interest in Vista. Many have recently in the past year or two finally rid themselves of the last vestiges of 9x boxes. Basically, Windows 2000 satisfied any and all needs they had. Everyone running Windows 2003/R2 had a Microsoft partner consultancy come in to "help" them with their network.

That's not to say they're anxious to jump to other platforms. Most show at least mild interest in my choice of a 12" PowerBook G4 to travel with and would start switching if "no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft". But no one is ready to start seriously investigating a wholesale switch to a non-Microsoft OS on desktops or servers.

There are many reasons for this.

But the core point is that enterprises have been pretty happy with their core OS since circa 2000. Everything since then is just features added to satisfy some niche constituency.

Vista would be dead on arrival if the PC manufacturers weren't so in bed with Microsoft that everyone who buys a PC after Xmas of 2007 had it coming to them by default. The reason OS X and Ubuntu, et al, are seeing their market share creep up is because they have finally caught up to the feature set and a bit of the mind share Microsoft had 6-7 years ago.

The computers in my house -- including my wife and kid's -- run OS X. My computers at work run Win XP, OS X, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and Open BSD. I am familiar with Win Server 2k and 2k3, many Linux distros, and various flavors of Unix.

Operating systems are a solved problem. The devils are in various niche details. Rational people with complete information (I heart Adam Smith) should be running OS X on the desktop and whatever they want/have to use on the server.

Flame at will.

Slow month. (0, Redundant)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441321)

I know that it's been a pretty slow month as far as news goes, but please. This is the 500th "Vista Beta preview/review/OMG PONIES!" article that has been on /. this week and the 2nd Tom's Hardware ad I've had to NOT read. This is crap. The fact that a Ubuntu endorsement came with the summary is just silly as well.

Try again when Vista is about to hit the new Dell machines and then we will see what it can do. Enough of the "Vista is going to be the Suxor!" and "Yet ANOTHER look at M$ Vista Beta 5,000,000XP++"!

Yeah, but (0, Redundant)

Council (514577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15441431)

Can it run Linux?
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