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Lenovo To Shun Linux

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the what-did-tux-ever-do-to-you dept.


dominique_cimafranca writes "CRN reports that Lenovo will not install or support the Linux operating system on any of its PCs. Lenovo is positioning itself as an exclusive partner of Microsoft, several weeks after the companies announced they were 'reaffirming' global market development and cooperation agreements." From the article: "A Lenovo spokesman later said the non-Linux strategy is also applicable for the company's Thinkpad brand of notebooks, although Lenovo will provide advice to customers who insist on deploying desktop Linux systems in some fashion. While Lenovo and Microsoft have had a long OEM relationship that pre-dates Lenovo's takeover last year of the former IBM PC Co., IBM had been supportive of Linux throughout its product line -- including preloading it on Thinkpads -- before the sale to Lenovo."

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no! (0)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465259)

Well, we all knew that the Lenovo branding would eventually lead to bad thigns happening. The T60 is good, the no-linux is bad.

When Marketing and Sales dept control products (0)

NRAdude (166969) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465367)

When bullshit advertising control a companies product portfolio, you get...

1) the $100 laptop (after 10 coupons and mfg refunds are applied within a narrow amount of time,
2) that bloat of crap-software bundled with hardware that already interoperated with available TWAIN or filesystem tools interacted with choice client,
3) advertisement stickers and related commercial speach, making absurd claims that said marketdroid-construed feature is only available on pre-installed host configuration,
4) bundled software that was optioned for return, and no refund received despite its resale value was then doubled as to counterfeit title to a claim on said software (sell twice),

Re:no! (1)

hector_uk (882132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465506)

this was probably a condition of the sale agreement with IBM so they don't complete with them.

Re:no! (1)

tacarat (696339) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465568)

this was probably a condition of the sale agreement with IBM so they don't complete with them.

I don't think so. Lenovo's made the purchase a while ago and IBM is pretty much out of that area of the computer market anyhow. Any announcements regarding linux support and sales should have been shortly after the sale. Lenovo probably negotiated a very favorable rate on Microsoft software in exchange for dumping Linux. A better OEM rate equates better profit margins.

Being a chinese company, I wonder if their government "suggested" they go to using only licenced MS products. New equipment with a paid copy of Windows and Office don't need pirated versions, which has been an issue for them.

Then What laptop should I buy??? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465263)

The x60s looked nice. What laptop should I buy now?

Re:Then What laptop should I buy??? (2, Informative)

bstadil (7110) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465295)

Turion x2 based HP machines DV2000z. They will be out in 2 weeks or so. Killer design made by Nisha in Japan. Here [] is the Intel verison

Re:Then What laptop should I buy??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465392)

You didn't say whether you were planning to go for the base model or a maxxed-out variant, nor what qualified the X60 as "nice". That basically stops anybody giving you any meaningful recommendation.

With that said, you can get an Acer TravelMate 8204WLMi for $1960 shipped (and with no sales tax) now.

For a high-spec machine, I'm not aware of *any* current model for under $2000 that compares:

* Intel Core Duo T2500 w/ 2MB L2 cache, 667MHz FSB
* Intel 945PM chipset
* 2GB DDR2 533 RAM
* 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050) TFT LCD
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics, 256MB DDR memory + 256MB system memory as needed
* 120GB SATA 5400rpm with anti-shock protection
* Modular Super-Multi drive (DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD-RAM)
* Gigabit LAN w/ Intel AMT
* Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG 802.11 a/b/g WLAN w/ Acer SignalUp
* Bluetooth 2.0 EDR WPAN
* Fast Infrared port
* V.92 56K modem
* 1.3 megapixel CMOS camera with 225 rotation
* Bluetooth® VoIP phone (charges in PCMCIA slot)
* Type-II PCMCIA slot
* ExpressCard/34 slot
* Smart Card slot
* Built-in card reader (MultiMediaCard, Secure Digital card, Memory Stick / Memory Stick PRO(TM), xD-Picture Card)
* Stereo speakers
* Integrated microphone
* IEEE 1394 FireWire
* 4 x USB 2.0
* VGA, DVI and S-video TV-out
* Headphone / speaker / line-out with SPDIF support, microphone and line-in ports
* Acer EZDock connection
* 88-key keyboard
* Touch-pad with four-way scroll button
* 4 easy launch buttons
* External WiFi / Bluetooth switches
* Kensington lock
* Anti theft alarm function
* 3.5 hours charge on 9-cell battery
* 5.5 hours charge with 9-cell battery and optional 6-cell in place of DVD drive
* Batteries recharge to 80% in 1 hour, full charge in 2 hours (power off) / 2.5 hours (power on)
* 14.3" x 10.7" x 1.0"
* 6.6 lb with DVD drive installed
* Comes with WinXP Pro, Acer utilities, Norton AntiVirus, NTI CD-Maker, Adobe Reader, and CyberLink PowerDVD - not a bunch of useless programs and things you probably already have

Actually that's a good question now (2, Interesting)

gd23ka (324741) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465507)

I personally own a Thinkpad T41 I purchased in 2004 and posted here about they way the socket of it's powersupply came off this last christmas and what a hassle I had to go through to get that fixed. Now a couple of days ago I talked to a friend of mine (who I had recommend a T41 myself for shame) and he told me his plug had come loose too. If you ask me quality took a nose-dive down even before IBM sold to Lenovo probably in the full knowledge that quality was bound to deteriorate even further so why bother. A product built using cheap labor is one thing as most electronics nowadays are but using even cheaper parts manufactured in the chinese forced labor camps are another. I will not buy anything from Lenovo, ever. I want a rugged notebook that doesn't come apart, whose screen stays up (and doesn't have to fixed with tape like I saw one of my colleagues to with his Fujitsu Siemens) even after a year of use, the powersocket of which doesn't come loose and so forth? Who makes notebooks like that, today?

after all that work.... (0)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465265)

After all that work I spent getting linux drivers to compile on an X31 with Slackware and now Lenova won't support it in future models? It's a step backwards...


Re:after all that work.... (1)

freddy151 (955520) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465521)

they are making a big mistake,they are listening to Bill he thinks he is still the ruler of the desktop and he is not all that any more as they are going to find out,vista is junk just like all the rest of his junk.

That's OK... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465266)

They'll come crawling back to us when Vista turns out to be a flop.

Re:That's OK... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465299)

So are Microsoft joining Intel to become joint funders of the Lenovo Topseller program (which directs which machines are offered "off the shelf" by their distribution partners).

Never thought I'd say this (5, Insightful)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465309)

but I agree. Vista has *not* impressed me so far. xgl is just as impressive (or at least, just as useful) as Aero Glass, and with Dapper being as gorgeous and capable as it is...

By the time Vista comes out, Edgy will have been released. I'm seriously considering thoroughly forsaking Microsoft when Vista rolls around.

Re:Never thought I'd say this (1)

ditoa (952847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465489)

If all you are concerned with in your next operating system is the UI framework and it looking like Xzibit Pimp'd Your OS then I suggest you just buy a Mac now and not worry about Aero Glass or Xgl.

Or when the Chinese government tells them to (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465341)

They'll come crawling back to us when Vista turns out to be a flop.

Or if they want to keep selling in China (which, despite trying hard to wave american flags, is still a big market for them).

Chinese Government says all new PCs must be Linux-friendly []

My guess is that this move is basically Microsoft bribing the right officials in Lenovo. A few dollars from China to bug their systems, a few from Microsoft's monopoly-power-abuse-team and pretty soon your talking real money.

Re:Or when the Chinese government tells them to (3, Informative)

corrosive_nf (744601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465432)

Read the article you link to. Lenovo is based in the PRC (mainland China) while the Linux requirement was mandated by the ROC (Taiwan). Two totally different countries, even if the rest of the world does'nt have the balls to acknowledge Taiwan.

Re:That's OK... (1)

gmby (205626) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465401)

Or when they find out that it's a tool of the devil!

Look at the Slashdot Poll on Vista right now!


Sweet merciful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465270)

...broiled-crispy Cthulhu on a trampoline biscuit!@


Re:Sweet merciful (1)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465513)

Sweet merciful broiled-crispy Cthulhu on a trampoline biscuit!

Wow, that's even better than "Jesus jumped up Christ on a chariot-driven sidecar". How the hell did you come up with that?!

Re:Sweet merciful (1)

Cicero382 (913621) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465542)


The FSM will strike you down!

(I, too have been touched by his noodley appendage)

They were right! (4, Interesting)

MrSquirrel (976630) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465273)

Hmmmm, Lenovo ditching Linux and partnering solely with Microsoft? ...Microsoft being full of security holes... oh look, the US gov't predicted this: 36250 [] . Of course, now I see! If they're going to bug PC's, it would be easiest to do through Windows... those crafty Chinese!
Really though... why are they doing this? Seems like they would lose a decent amount of customers considering they're not sold to no-speaky-tech people at Walmart/Circuit City... isn't Linux gaining market share?... Seems to me if a market is growing, you should capitalize on it rather than shun it.

Re:They were right! (2, Interesting)

njdj (458173) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465415)

why are they doing this?

To answer that, you have to ask "Cui bono?", and the answer to that is "Microsoft". So the most logical explanation is that Microsoft has offered Lenovo extra discounts if Lenovo agrees to discourage Linux use; or has threatened less-favorable terms if Lenovo does not agree to discourage Linux use.

IBM had the clout to resist Microsoft - there are still some big corporations that regard IBM as the gold standard. Lenovo hasn't. So it would come down to ethics and concern for the interests of the customer, vs next quarter's bottom line. We all know what priorities those have in today's corporate America.

Re:They were right! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465534)

man spreading FUD like that is as bad as the MS Shills, losers like you give the OSS community a bad name. MS gives the same discount to all of the top tier OEM producers, they have to as they were forced to do so during the settlement. If they were offering lenovo anything extra then DELL, Toshiba, ACER and every other large OEM in the world would be screaming to the government to force MS to stick to there settlement.

Handy (0, Flamebait)

Kortec (449574) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465276)

Lenovo shunning Linux? Good -- there's no way they can match the IBM ThinkPad team for design anyway, so it's not like I was ever going to buy their junky imitations. A black MacBook will run my Linux just fine, though.

Re:Handy (1)

pintomp3 (882811) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465336)

they've been the official maker of these "junky imitations" for a long time...

Re:Handy (1)

DelphicGuardian (899253) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465381)

they've been the official maker of these "junky imitations" for a long time...
Yeah, but did they (Lenovo) design them too?

Re:Handy (2, Interesting)

pintomp3 (882811) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465566)

whether or not they designed them, calling their products imitations doesn't make any sense. and since they've made some pretty nice new laptops since name change, i'de say they have pretty decent designers too. not all products from asia are counterfits and knockoffs. asians are capable of design too.

Re:Handy (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465396)

Maker, not designer. Some no name company makes Apple's laptops too, but it's the Apple design that makes them good. Same for IBM -- good design is why people bought thinkpads.

I just got a new laptop, and I really wanted to buy a Thinkpad... but they're so much more expensive than Dells and have lower specs. After reading the Lenovo doesn't care about Linux, I'm glad I went for the Dell.

Re:Handy (1)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465428)

I didn't know ASUS was a "no-name company"

Re:Handy (1)

DelphicGuardian (899253) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465453)

I didn't know ASUS was a "no-name company"
Yeah, they are ok?

their loss (5, Insightful)

m874t232 (973431) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465278)

They have missed a big opportunity. They could have used this juncture to become a leading Linux supplier for the corporate desktop and server market. Instead, they're just handing more and more control over their business to Microsoft.

And if they think they can always do that later, they're kidding themselves. People already don't trust their brand name and their ability to innovate, and shipping beige boxes to Microsoft specs is going to damage their brand even more.

Re:their loss (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465339)

The US government shouldn't fear from Lenovo :)
Apparently it is controlled by M$ not the Chinese government.

Hmm, maybe they should be terrified instead.

Re:their loss (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465479)

They have missed a big opportunity.

Maybe the opportunity they see isn't as big as the one we see? We have heard for more than 10 years now that Linux is getting big fast, "this (or next) is the year of Linux" etc. It clearly has a very stealthy way of achieving this success for so long.

Is this surprising? (5, Insightful)

kaiwai (765866) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465282)

Linux like UNIX's in general (including *BSD) aren't, sad to say, in great demand by typical end users; if it isn't the hardware support issue, it'll be an issue of ISV's that provide their software on Linux.

Some see this as "Microsoft strong arming", but Lenovo is simply asking, "where is the biggest market", and the biggest market is for machines loaded with Windows, and laden with software ontop.

Is this a set back for Linux on the desktop (on any other UNIX), not really; given that the largest is Dell - who quite frankly, couldn't care less what is loaded onto their machines; start to worry when Dell snubs other operating systems.

Also, lets remember that 40% of the computers shipped today are from small 'white box', local computer stores not the large mega corporations.

Ultimately, however, the ball is in Linux's court; opensource is getting there; it just depends on how patient people are; if they're willing to wait (like me), in a few years time, you'll start to see commercial feature rich software opensource software with in the next couple of years - lets remember, the rate at which features are being added to commercial software is decreasing, companies ( Microsoft namely) have reached a point of diminishing returns - every new feature they're adding, is yielding less and less enthusiasm from the 'geek crowd' and their main customer base.

Its just a matter of time; personally, its going to be the commercial companies who will suffer, they either make the port of their software to alternative operating systems, and gain customer loyalty, or shun these platforms, resulting in opensource software becoming the equal and defacto standard on said platforms.

Yes, although this is slightly off topic, in the end it all ties back to *NIX/*BSD on the desktop, customer demand, and how that customer demand is derived from whether the operating system can provide the same level of software which they need at home, at the office or on the road.

Re:Is this surprising? (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465314)

I think that the feature issue will be a tipping point for Free Software in general, not just Linux/Linux distros. MS adds more crap to their software that nobody wants, yet people keep paying for it because they know there's a certain level of support that's going to be there no matter what.

Now look at the [one of the] business models that Free Software companies use. For example, when Cygnus started out, they sought contracts to develop features and package software to exact specifications for people. This model has a huge advantage over "here's version 13. deal with it".

The tipping point isn't here yet, but if companies continue to spring up and grow that use the Free Software model, Microsoft will continue to be weakened.

Re:Is this surprising? (3, Interesting)

kaiwai (765866) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465376)

I think that the feature issue will be a tipping point for Free Software in general, not just Linux/Linux distros. MS adds more crap to their software that nobody wants, yet people keep paying for it because they know there's a certain level of support that's going to be there no matter what.

Most definately; some say, "oh, well, thats what customers demand", but I've yet to find someone who has asked for sharepoint, for example - what is the purpose of that? it seems to be nothing more than a glorified php + DB back end + phorum running on top, which, quite frankly, doesn't yield a single improvement in productivity as to justify the costs of upgrading and retraining.

Another good example is Photoshop - how many have moved beyond version 9? I mean, apart from the Mac user who upgraded from classic to the carbon version, then eventually to the universal binary, look at the number who are happily running their 4-5 year old copy of Photoshop, doing the same sorts of things without any problems. The only people I see upgrading, are those who have this fetish that software wears out, and needs upgrading regularly.

Chief example would be Windows Vista; having a look at it, compared it to Windows XP and alternative operating systems, one has to ask, "where is the beef"? where is the customer pulling, earth shattering, clean slate, 'lets get things right the first time' factors which will make Vista an improvement over XP? already the new 'Limited User Account" (or what ever it is named) has been a flop; Winfs has been purged already for 'shipment at a later date' and the remaining components left are of no benefit to the end user given that they can either be achieved via installing third party tools ontop of Windows XP, already available on MacOS X or if they're inclined, they could upgrade to one of the many quality opensource operating systems out there; in my case, I run FreeBSD + Xorg + KDE + Koffice; far superior to Microsoft or any commercial entity has to offer.

As for Microsoft, they won't 'weaken' but they'll become less and less relevant in the IT industry, but like a spoilt bratt, they'll jump up and down, they'll try to make some noise, like they're doing with Windows Vista; but most people have gone past Microsoft, no ones interested in their products anymore, the hype, the momentum is gone; customers are looking elsewhere, they want a different way, a different approach to how customers are serviced in the software industry.

Sun is making moves; PC-BSD is making head roads as users are looking at an easy to use *BSD for their desktops, Red Hat are concerntrating on the servers are the moment, and Novell are focusing on getting their corporate offerings being based around mono. Microsoft know what the future will entail, and they're scared; no more multimillion dollar dinner parties and trips with customers, no more excessive number of staff employed and being funded off the back of monopolistic practices; the 'reform' will be tough, but it will happen in the end.

Re:Is this surprising? (1)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465532)

Linux users have been posting this stuff for 10 years. Maybe in another 10 years, it will come true, and in stopped-clock fashion, they can claim they were right all along.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Solaris and PC-BSD (whatever that is) ain't exactly threating Microsoft, and a new release of Windows can only strength MS's market position rather than weaken it.

Re:Is this surprising? (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465460)

The problem is that by the time the customer demand builds up to some critical level Lenovo might not be able to capitalize on it. Why? Mainly because MS has a history of stabbing it's partners in the back and causing them permanent harm if not corporate death. There is no reason to think that MS will not do the same to Lenovo.

Re:Is this surprising? (1)

kaiwai (765866) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465486)

That is assuming whether Lenovo is unwise enough to enter into a perpetual exclusive contract with them.

Worse comes to worse, Lenovo could always setup a subsidary dedicated to Linux computers, under a different name, if they needed to get out of a sticky situation with Microsoft.

Trying Valianty to fit into the US (1, Insightful)

Araxen (561411) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465288)

They are really desperate to fit into the US market so they say "Hey, It's MS or nothing". If they really want to fit in they need to change their brand name.

I don't think that will stop anything ... (2, Funny)

Quiberon (633716) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465290)

Lenovo's like a restauranteur, and Microsoft is like a wine waiter. Of course the the restauranteur sends the wine waiter round to see if the clients would like the wine; and lots of them do.

However, if you force everyone to take the wine, some of them throw it on the floor and fill the glass up with water.

They're the Linux users; the freedom-loving kinds.

Re:I don't think that will stop anything ... (2, Funny)

shani (1674) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465315)

So does this mean Linux is "free as in water [] "?

Re:I don't think that will stop anything ... (1)

gall0ws (902335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465321)

Wine? []
Oh doc, I'm confused..

Re:I don't think that will stop anything ... (1)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465326)

I think perhaps it's more apt to describe the waiter as serving everyone Thunderbird but some of us are going to dump it out and demand a good Merlot.

Re:I don't think that will stop anything ... (2, Insightful)

nickgrieve (87668) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465327)


What..? What..?!

I thought car analogies were bad. Sheesh...

slashdot analogy (2, Insightful)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465409)

need I say more?

That's what Microsoft wants (5, Insightful)

njdj (458173) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465438)

if you force everyone to take the wine, some of them throw it on the floor and fill the glass up with water.

After paying Microsoft for the Windows XP that they delete.

Seriously, this is the real problem. As long as Microsoft gets paid for Windows on every PC shipped, regardless of whether that PC will actually run Windows or not, Microsoft wins. It will use the money that you paid it to, among other things, buy more anti-Linux "studies".

That's one of the reasons that the Lenovo decision is a genuine victory for Microsoft and a real defeat for Linux. Let's face the facts and not pretend otherwise.

Re:I don't think that will stop anything ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465492)

"However, if you force everyone to take the wine, some of them throw it on the floor and fill the glass up with water"

Actually most people faced the prospect of having to use wine just boot into Windows.

Summary is a bit deceptive (1, Insightful)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465292)

The article doesn't say that they are entering into a permenant relationship with Microsoft. All you have is "What you see is what you get. And at this point, it's Windows." And that doesn't mean much. Maybe they will go with BSD instead?

China, hello. They are not the US of fucking A! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465303)


I am... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465318)

...about to buy a new notebook with a budget of $2000+ - either Core Duo or Turion 64 X2 Mobile (I'm awaiting benchmarks on the latter).

Even if I personally am unfamiliar with (and don't use) Linux, I believe in competition. Hence I won't be buying a Lenovo, or any other brand that refuses to support Linux.

Re:I am... (1)

corychristison (951993) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465558)

Even if I personally am unfamiliar with (and don't use) Linux, I believe in competition. Hence I won't be buying a Lenovo, or any other brand that refuses to support Linux.
Most companies do not "support" Linux [in the sense of help via telephone or e-mail support]

So your choices for a laptop manufacturer are pretty slim to nil.

Somewhere..... (5, Funny)

ericdano (113424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465332)

Somewhere in Microsoft H.Q., all the chairs are breathing a sigh of relief.

Re:Somewhere..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465510)

Except the one that Ballmer sits on. I believe that one is in a coma.

They don't have to (2, Insightful)

kanzels (975208) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465334)

They don't have to support Linux, I don't remember other vendors really supporting Linux. It will just work as on other hardware...

Re:They don't have to (1)

Sod75 (558841) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465476)

but this means they won't test linux on it or make design decisions in favor of working better with linux, etc
if they still supported linux they'd put some effort into it at least...
and if you want one, you'll have to pay for the Vista that you didn't want in the first place and actually fund microsoft who started this in the first place ...

Re:They don't have to (1, Troll)

arivanov (12034) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465483)

I will second that.

As a matter of fact IBM used to make similar noises 2-3 years ago especially regarding the Stinkpad including disbanding completely the desktop/laptop Linux team on at least one occasion (and it quietly reappearing later on).

So as far as policy - nothing new here, move along. We 've all seen that.

As far as business development they will get steamrolled into supporting Red Flag Linux by the Chinese Govt do they like it or not for a similar reason to the one quoted by many other posters: "Windows is much easier to bug".

If they do not they will lose on their home market and it is growing at much higher rate compared to the US.

Conclusion is simple (3, Insightful)

Rehdon (25434) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465344)

Linux users will shun Lenovo.


Re:Conclusion is simple (1)

Mjlner (609829) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465426)

Hear hear!

If I ever meet Lenovo, I will shun her/him too.
BTW, who is Lenovo? Why should I care? And how is this news?

Re:Conclusion is simple (0, Flamebait)

lxs (131946) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465547)

Linux users will shun Lenovo.

This evening, the CEO of Lenovo stunned the world by announcing:

"We estimate that the recently announced boycott by the Linux community will inpact our sales by as much as 0.05 percent!"

Investors worldwide are shocked.

Richard Stallman was quoted as saying: "Hurd users will stay loyal to Lenovo for now, but if our demands of pre-installed emacs on all boxen and a corresponding name change to GNU/Lenovo are not met, we will join the boycott."

umm?? question going to buy a new laptop soon (1)

atarione (601740) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465352)

soo... i get that i can't buy a thinkpad w/ linux on it.

but i'm not entirely sure what IBM was doing before for Linux in general

does this annoucement mean it will be harder/not possible to to get my new thinkpad working correctly with various linux distro's ... does it mean it will just take longer for the linux commuity to get the new thinkpads working w/ linux??

i.e. was ibm actively contributing to Linux to help ensure their (ibm) hardware worked w/ linux...or were they just saying...yeah we like linux..and if you want will sell you thinkpads w/ linux loaded.


Re:umm?? question going to buy a new laptop soon (1)

Quiberon (633716) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465383)

IBM donates stuff (like the OS/2 file system) to Linux. IBM supports 'commercial' operating systems and 'free' operating systems on its hardware. Windows and Linux, AIX and Linux, MVS and Linux, OS400 and Linux.

IBM doesn't develop or manufacture personal computers. They have gone the way of the typewriter and punch card.

High growth now is chips for game consoles. Get an Xbox360, a Playstation 3, or a 'Wii'.

It all about getting a better deal on Windows (4, Insightful)

mattcoug (873342) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465357)

Of course this would happen. Lenovo is trying to cut to costs as much as possible. IBM as a brand can for double what Dell sells for, but Lenovo can't. One big way to cut the price, is to make the deal with MS. Cut out Linux support and Windows is suddenly much cheaper....

now wait a minute... Lenovo? IBM Sold? When? (0, Redundant)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465358)

Am i asleep? I have missed completely! IBM taken over by Lenovo.. Who?

Never heard of Lenovo, and never heard of IBM being taken over! That's really a shame...

What's happening in this world?

Hopefully they atleast supply Ubuntu or some other linux distro installation media with their laptops in the future or something like that, for atleast a little while.

Re:now wait a minute... Lenovo? IBM Sold? When? (1)

Sod75 (558841) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465481)

IBM sold their PC entire departments to Lenovo somewhere last year. they still say IBM on them for a while at least as part of the deal, but that's all as far as IBM is still involved...

Lenovo - IBM transition (1, Troll)

unixwin (569813) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465359)

My 2c as a Thinkpad owner (T43:IBM & now a T60:Lenovo)
Hardware: T60 sucks. Latch is loose when it came, "extended" battery doesn't fit snugly into the slot.
Its not defective.. its just like how the Dell's and others used to be a few years ago.
Their quality has gone up and the Lenovo has sunk to new depths. Note its not cheap. Its 2-300 above a similar Dell/Toshiba. Summary: They lost all my future business.

Linux (Fedora,RHEL,Suse,Gentoo),Solaris on intel,FreeBSD: T43 no sweat

Havn't bothered with Lin/Sol/BSD on the T60 as yet. Have thought a couple of times about just returning this.

Gotta wonder how IBM feels about this... (5, Interesting)

allroy63 (571629) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465360)

I used to work for IBM supporting other IBM employees. We certainly had users who ran Linux on Netvistas, Thinkpads, etc. or who ran AIX. You have to wonder what IBM's feelings are on this - after all, IBM has helped to push Linux out the door in the past. They've offered the OS as an installation option so that you boot into Linux fresh out of the box. They also offer support to clients running Linux - typically on IBM hardware.

They've also done substantial work developing a href="">S/390 Linux [] in partnership with Marist College. S/390 Linux runs on IBM mainframe systems and allows clients to connect to their own Linux "workstation" hosted off the mainframe (think VMWare - but now instead of running an additional workstation in a window on your own machine, you're running an additional workstation on your own machine but all the processing power and resource utilization is hosted on an OS390 mainframe).

There are a multitude of other places where one can see IBM's support, endorsement, and development of Linux. The big question is where is IBM getting its hardware for its own employees these days? If there's an agreement with Lenovo to purchase PCs from them, I would imagine that this decision will create some serious support problems. It's one thing to have technicians working on laptops that have been designed in house. When the specifications you're working with are open to the communities you serve, you're far more able to create workarounds to specific problems or resolve recurring issues between hardware and OS. If Lenovo is now designing their machines with a commitment to exclusive Windows compatibility, how will this affect the very business that sold the Thinkpad/Netvista etc. names to Lenovo in the first place? What kinds of kinks does this throw into continued IBM development and endorsement of Linux?

Re:Gotta wonder how IBM feels about this... (1)

Quiberon (633716) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465407)

None, really. 'Business' needs commercial freedom, therefore Linux; 'Home Entertainment' needs ability to play commercial DVDs, therefore Windows.

IBM can flip its 'internals' to Sony Playstation 3 with the IBM supercomputer-on-a-chip any time it feels like.

IBM can also try to interest Lenovo in putting these chips in their personal computers.

The 'layering' is finally right, and we can move on.

Re:Gotta wonder how IBM feels about this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465436)

IBM is probably designing a Power or Cell based laptop capable of running AIX and Linux... they don't need to care about Windows... and they don't want to compete on a low-tech market.

Re:Gotta wonder how IBM feels about this... (1)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465437)

IBM never seriously pushed Linux on their desktop computers. There was one Linux ThinkPad model (cancelled several years ago, IIRC), and no desktops. Sure, you could pay their consultants to support Linux, but the PC group wasn't pushing it. It's pretty clear that IBM felt Linux was only useful for servers and workstations.

For all the advertising noise IBM made about Linux, HP actually has more comprehensive machine support, offering Linux on everything from laptops to desktops to Superdome servers.

Lenovo is making its own decisions... (3, Interesting)

DiamondGeezer (872237) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465363)

Anyone who has actually dealt with the New Brave Chinese Economy knows fine well that its basically irrational, and not to put to fine a point on it: racist. So it's made it's business decision to ignore a small, growing market and go with the dominant worldwide brand. That's fine. It's made a brave corporate decision. We'll just see some of its customer base inherited from IBM go somewhere else. Especially as its not trying to reassure its customers that it wants what its customers want. I won't be buying Lenovo and nor will I recommend buying them to anyone else.

tricky ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465372)

okay, i understand "will not install linux on their computers
but i don't understand "won't support linux on their laptops".
freaking redicilous!
so we got the 100 dollar laptop. seems like everybody and their
mom wants one.
hmmm .. so the "capitalists" are (still) a bit stupid. maybe
the "communist" linux camp can once again save the day:
how about a open-source driver development environment for those
"dirty" capitalists .. aas near as possible to point-and-click
for a linux hardware driver? like hmmm one module with what u call that
"hooks" into the kernel (see version) and another module which interfaces
with the physical blueprint of the circuitry. so "they" can just scan the
circuit layout, select which kernel and voila a driver ... *shrug*
this last "Step" should really bring world dominance ... i propose "all your driver belong to us".
BUT, everything has two sides, so gone would be days of the ....
linux hacker in basement giving to the world those lines of code that
will enable XYZ hardware to work with linux -fame ...

someone please explain the DRAWBACK of supporting linux or
the GAIN from not supporting it? is it like ... really really really
really really expensive to do so?

Instead of going with a Lenovo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465378)

Dude, you're getting a Dell!

Dell launches Mandriva line: html?tid=147&tid=184 []

What will be intresting if Dell launches a Ubuntu line, as the main guy there said he likes Ubuntu

its only buisness (0)

mAIsE (548) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465379)

If you can remove yoruself from the emotional aspect of this, then look at it from their perspective most of their customers (90%+) are using one operarting system vendor.

If that vendor wants to sweeten the deal or play hard ball behind the scenes it could make their life hell. Now that Lenovo is based in china, who knows what m$ can twist behind the scenes.

Coporate Communism (1)

GnuTzu (892111) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465389)

Originally, there seemed to be a some potential between open source (which I see as a free market force) and communism. This could have been a great bridge between cultures. But, China has been courting the big-business economics of the free World, and Microsoft has been combating the wide-spread pirating in the East. Conspirists would probably fear a creepy deal between China and the illegal monopoly of imperialistic capatalism (M$). Could this Lenovo deal be a part of that? Some have complained of Corporate Socialism in the U.S. Could this be the birth of Corporate Communism? And, will China compromise its standards for intellectual works and submit to Microsoft's DRM?

It doesnt make much sense (3, Funny)

oztiks (921504) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465390)

They go off and advertise on /. then they tell everyone that they arnet supporting linux? obviously the marketing dept doesnt speak to the support dept very often at lenovo...

Not surprising (1)

Somnus (46089) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465393)

Unlike IBM, Lenovo doesn't compete with Microsoft on the software end of things, so they don't need to use their hardware to push other products. Also, they want to differentiate their package from the Apple+OS X solution in the high-end laptop market, now that they're both Intel.

A shame, though -- AFAIK, Thinkpads continue to be sturdy, functional, elegant machines under Lenovo.

In a bold move (1)

Propaganda13 (312548) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465512)

Lenovo moves to install only Microsoft operating systems on their computers. When asked why, a Lenovo spokesman said "We needed to do something that would really set apart from the rest of the herd".

I wonder if this will change their tune.. (1)

P2x (623689) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465406)

Re:I wonder if this will change their tune.. (1)

corrosive_nf (744601) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465442)

Once again, two DIFFERENT countries, Lenovo is in the PRC while that article talks about ROC (Taiwan). Fuck people, I know slasdotters dont RTFA most of the time, but if you are linking a different article and trying to act smart, read what you link to.


Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465501)

OK, so what's the Chinese government's stand on Lenovo then?
Are the Chinese developing their own chips in order to develop their own PCs?

Re:I wonder if this will change their tune.. (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465520)

Good info, but you are looking a two different countries and China is huge compared to Taiwan.

Basically many countries are looking at the Open Source option over the the Proprietary one and while the average consumer won't shift anytime soon due to the "it's good enough" attitude, some government organisations (that includes China as well) are starting to insist on Open Standards (not necessarily Linux) and that will force vendors to make their hardware at least Linux/BSD compatible.

On a more interesting note, It would be like the Chinese Government saying to their people that we trust only Microsoft as our software distributor.

Based on this (1)

Bad Boy Marty (15944) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465411)

I have made a corporate decision: there will be no purchases of anything with the Lenovo brand on it.

All my corporate services run on Linux. I have no corporate need of any non-Linux infrastructure. Lenovo has just lost any possible corporate spending on their laptops.

Got a wallet?

Vote with it!

Lenovo isn't evil... (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465420)

Lenovo isn't evil, just not very smart when it comes to end-users.
MS is not the only OS out there, and the days are numbered for people who only want to OEM with one brand of OS. Sure, windows will have lots of people buying new pc's and laptops etc. but they will also be the people who don't know if the pc is bad, or there is a virus, or there is an OS problem.

As the Linux out-of-the-box experience improves, it will become more clear why only supporting one OS as OEM product is really not the right move. Then again, Lenovo wants to ship lots of new hardware and not support anything really. Linux doesn't really require new hardware to support the new desktop UI etc.

This also means that MS will send them a monthly check with a few dollars for every PC / Laptop shipped. Perhaps the anti-piracy crowd got to some of the board members at Lenovo?

Well screw that! (1)

FrostedWheat (172733) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465421)

Well I was going to buy another Thinkpad because I've always been impressed with the earlier ones and really impressed with the X series.

Is there any other laptop out there as good? (And doesn't have those horrible pad mouse things?

awww maaaan (1)

bheekling (976077) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465433)

and there i was, hoping to buy a lenovo next month...

Let Lenovo know your thoughts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465448)

I submitted the same story about 5 hours ago, but I included:

A) The URL to let Lenovo know they'll lose your business [] , if like me, you're a longtime Linux Thinkpad user.

B) A request to Slashdot users for laptop alternatives that are Linux friendly. My T43 has bluetooth, built-in wireless, cpufreq scaling, the hd motion detector, the fingerprint scanner -- i.e., everything -- working great under Linux, with little to no hassle on my part. Have others had similar good experiences with other non-ibm/lenovo laptops? I'll be needing to find another company to give $2000 or so every couple of years.

The problem is Linux, not Lenovo (3, Informative)

jopet (538074) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465450)

I do not see how Lenovo, or any computer seller could possibly support Linux the way it is done with Windows: these companies do not manufacture all of the computers themselves. They assemble components from other hardware vendors. The problem is - there is no stable, working way how these hardware components are supported. Hardware vendors do not provide opensource drivers and Linux does not want closed-source drivers. If 3rd parties provide opensource drivers they often are buggy and lag behind current hardware.

But in order for a computer seller to "support" Linux, these things should just work at least to some acceptable degree. Which is not the case really.

Do you know of any other laptop where *all* hardware components work under Linux as they are supposed to?

As long as Linux will continue its "opensource only" policy for drivers, this situation will continue. Simply because Linux does not have the market power to enforce anything (as MS does have). It is quite easy for harware manufacturers to simply ignore Linux. Developing good drivers for Linux would cost more money than they would gain by additional sells.

As somebody who uses Linux 100% of the time, I am not happy about this, but unfortunately, these are the sad facts. Given the current move of Linux advocates against closed source drivers and DRM the situation will get worse in the future. I do not see how it will be possible to play HD/BR-DVDs on a Linux machine or how to handle encrypted HDTV signals.

Unless there is a drastic change of who Linux is getting developed the gap between Linux and Windows will widen -- no matter how crappy, buggy, or insecure Vista will turn out to be (probably not that much, given the effort that was invested in it).

Re:The problem is Linux, not Lenovo (1)

The_DoubleU (603071) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465557)

If I buy a machine with windows oem edition, I can't get support from MS.
If I call dell/hp/whatever you get a idiot on the phone that suggest to re-install the OS to fix the problems.

Please tell me where is that so called support you asked about?
Even in our company we found some bugs in MS Office, do we get support for that? No, we reported it and it will probably be fixed in the next version.

It doesn't matter what OS you are running, support is always provided by the geek next door. And not MS/Apple/Dell.
Heck, if you have a problem I think you get faster and better support on a linux forum then calling a hot line.

Sightly offtopic but still... (3, Interesting)

Masa (74401) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465454)

Am I the only one who thinks that newer IBM / Lenovo laptops are just pieces of crap?

Company I'm working for has a contract with IBM and we are using an IBM hardware. I have an R50 laptop and last week I had a chance to try some X series laptops. I have heard that the T series are (were?) a good laptop brand, but I have no experience of them (I've heard that the T series, T42 to be more specific, is quite a nice machine for Linux). Anyway, my R50 - and every other R50 I have dealed with - is just a huge pile of crap. And now the light-weight X series seems to be following the footsteps of the R series. The thing is, both models are, as far as I know, provided by the Lenovo factories.

Oh, and the legendary "black IBM design" with well-finished product quality (case and components) is just a joke. Pieces are not fit together well enough and the finishing touch is just missing. Also, the assembly of the LCD screen is just terrible. Every time, I open the laptop lid, it feels like the CD drive and the lid would come off in any minute.

The worst thing is that most reviewers have been giving absolutely glorious reviews for the R50 series laptops. But maybe drug-abusing is common trait in the laptop-reviewer-circles.

Re:Sightly offtopic but still... (1)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465500)

IBM has had a "crap" consumer ThinkPad line for at least 10 years, and the R-Series is just another in that line -- it's just some generic model with a few thinkpad touches.

Another brand to be avoided (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15465468)

As the current owner of an X31 and four staff to buy laptops for, I think it is a bit stupid of Lenevo to do what they have done.

I prejudice company purchase by the level of linux support first then toughness and size second (we like small and light but tough).

Truth be told though, my staff are Chinese and would not touch the Lenovo brand with a barge pole. To them, it seems like Skoda just bought Rolls Royce and they don't think the future has the word 'quality' anywhere in it for thinkpads.

So I would say from what I'm seeing, Thinkpads were a good brand and Lenovo just wasted a ton of dollars.

Right tool for the job (1)

lamarhornet (977794) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465514)

My 2 cents (Off-Topic kinda): Apple makes the best laptop (Powerbook, Macbook). Linux and BSD's are for servers. True, i use FreeBSD on my work PC, but my window manager is Fluxbox and I normally use it for utilitarian tasks. Why is there so much energy spent on perfecting Linux for the desktop? Get a fucking Mac, your life will be easier. No more wasted time making things work under inopportune conditions.

How close (1)

porkface (562081) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465527)

As a decision maker for this kind of purchase for my company, I feel I now have to wait to evaluate Vista before I can buy into one, the other, or both.

Lenovo was a couple of drivers shy of abstracting themselves from the coming mess. Now I am compelled to wait on my purchases.

Build laptops ourselves (1)

antikristian (856519) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465535)

Seems like the only way to get a laptop that is built to run Linux on is to build one yourself...

So what should I get... (1)

Bazman (4849) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465537)

...if I want a laptop that runs a modern linux (say, Ubuntu 6.06) with all the goodies working - suspend and hibernate, wireless networking, power management, external video - without having to compile a new (often patched) kernel like I've had to in the past?

Do any laptop manufacturers supoprt linux now?

I guess its back to trawling

Support? (1)

krunk4ever (856261) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465543)

Could it be the fact they don't have or want to set aside resources to support Linux. I mean, for those that want Linux, it's easy enough for them to install it. For those that don't, then they don't have to worry about supporting them. I think what the optimal solution is to be able to buy ThinkPads w/o any OS on it.

I mean, by allowing users to buy ThinkPads with Linux on it means if there's any problem, they'll have to support it (need it be drivers, or applications, or something that just doesn't work). IBM has a big linux support team, though Lenovo (a traditionally Windows laptop manufacturer) may not.

I'm curious if anyone knows the laptops that Dell sells with Redhat preloaded has any type of support. If I remember correctly, the support came directly from Redhat (not sure if Dell has to pay Redhat anything for this).

Anyway, my point here isn't that option isn't nice and Lenovo can even put a clause out there stating they won't trouble Linux, but in turn what happens if a buyer choses Linux because it saves him $100, and it turns out he's having problems up the gazoo. In that situation, Lenovo can only suggest the buyer to search for help online, find support through the OS company, or purchase Windows, none of which would make the customer happy.

motivation? (1)

absanitas (978451) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465552)

I guess they think there won't be enough customers who would prefer using Linux. May be they feel that the system requirements for vista would force people to purchase new models?

Distributions should start recommending hardware (5, Interesting)

deragon (112986) | more than 8 years ago | (#15465564)

I think it would be good for distributions to start recommending hardware manufacturers. Imagine Red Hat and Novell recommending HP over Dell, Nvidia over ATI for example. That might give a push to hardware manufacturers to better support Linux.
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