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PC's Role Key in New Format War

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the favoured-son dept.

180

An anonymous reader writes "With the PlayStation 3's launch still a ways off, Toshiba and Sony are turning to the PC as the next battleground for the DVD format. News.com reports that some manufacturers are, at least for now, planning to offer both options on upcoming desktop and laptop PCs. Only a handful of films and software are to be available for the formats this year." From the article: "PCs equipped with HD DVD or Blu-ray will cost several hundred dollars more than comparably equipped models with DVD drives--a factor that should keep sales relatively low this year as consumers wait for applications and video titles that can take advantage of the higher capacity."

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why pay more for DVD drive? (5, Interesting)

yagu (721525) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480267)

Disclaimer: following comments are based on the assumption these new DVD formats and drives for PCs support recording, an assumption not clear from the referenced article. If the drives won't be capable of recording, the incentive to consider either drive is even less.

All the recent roiling around locking down digital formats, keeping them from consumers, begs the question, "why would anyone pay extra, especially a couple hundred extra, for a computer with a DVD drive they seemingly may not be able to use legally anyway?"

The horizon is murky, it's not clear there will be much use for these new DVD drives be they blu-ray or HD.

With the incredible leaps in hard drive capacity and declining cost per gigabyte of storage (remember when it was described in terms of cost per megabyte?), even the notion of using these new high capacity DVDs for storage/backup is not compelling. People are beginning to turn to Network Access Storage as that becomes more affordable.

Also, there's is a growing trend in internet storage and backup, one I think will become huge. So, even MORE of a reason to not be interested in the new DVD drives.

Factor in the historically slow speeds and high failure rates of recording to disc media (I've given up on this approach, I get a write failure or corruption failure on creating data DVDs of about one in ten at least, a prohibitively high failure rate in the data world), even MORE reason to not buy.

As for gaming and movie viewing on PCs, ain't going to happen in huge numbers. People still prefer to watch their movies on real screens (bigger and bigger these days), and serious gamers tend to have their favorite dedicated game box.

Finally, until the legislative dust has settled users don't and won't know if there's even anything they could legally record to the new DVDs. It's not entirely clear users are going to be allowed to even make a backup copy of a purchased movie.

The industry, if they had half a brain, would be offering incentives to get buyers to go for their format, just for the sake of making the consumers roll the format-war dice.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (2, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480360)

"People are beginning to turn to Network Access Storage as that becomes more affordable."
USB hard drive enclosures are another good back system for a home user. They are very cheap and seem to work pretty well.
Yep I have to admit I am in the wait and see category. There is very little need for a higher density optical format loaded with DRM. I am hoping they will be as popular as the LS-120 floppy disk was.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480608)

I have a 300gb seagate external usb2 hd .... I'm not a "computer scientist" and I'm not sure how many *years* (I'll be happy with 4 , it's less than a year old) it's going to last like this, BUT I use my drive for *everything*...I have games on it, movies, music...everything....and it all plays back fine including GTA:SA and FarCry....oh wait are those not supposed to be on my harddrive? oops.....

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (2, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480688)

The keys would be longevity would be.
1. Multiple backups.
2. Only use drive for backing up. If a Hard drive has a MTBF of 10,000 hours it should be good for five or six years of backups. By then you will probably need a bigger drive anyway.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (2, Informative)

Menel (620973) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480950)

You do not know what MTBF means. Google it.

Most modern harddrives have a MTBF of between 750,000 and 1,000,000 hours.

Games (3, Insightful)

MrSquirrel (976630) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480378)

I don't think this should have an impact on any games -- I don't know of any games that take more than 1 DVD (bonus discs aside)... There are games right now that take upwards of 5 cd's: when games take multiple DVD's I will consider it a good thing to have a next-gen drive in a gaming rig.

Re:Games (1)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481034)

2-DVD games are not uncommon on PS2. Shadow Hearts:Covenant and Star Ocean II from just my
collection. I think God of War is on a dual-layer disc (European version with extra languages) and
The Bard's Tale is definitely a dual-layer disc. I expect collections of series of modern games to require
multiple DVDs anytime soon :)

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (4, Informative)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480457)

They are talking about the recordable drives, which for what it's worth do not burn DRM to the discs you make.

You're quite right that hard drives are getting cheaper and better for backup; I am myself building a file server, but high capacity optical disks have their place. I can hand out CD-Rs and DVD-Rs like candy, and these next-generation formats will come down in price if they survive.

Oh, and as a competing anecdote, I've never had a failed write/corrupt DVD-R. It's been a couple of years since I last (accidently) turned a CD-R into a coaster, too. Maybe you should look into higher quality drives and media.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15481005)

Maybe, but how many hard drives have you had that mysteriously failed after a year, even without usage? Same goes for CDs. DVDs on the other hand are terrible at this, at least from my experience. I've had lots of DVDs fail to play (at all or partially) even with no visible scratches on the medium.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481182)

I've noticed that DVD's failing to play is usually (1) cheap media or (2) crappy drive (or both). With a decent brand drive and good quality media (basically anything other than the generic non-printed variety) I've never had read problems from a DVD. CD's have been about the same (though I did buy a 100 spindle of cheap CD's early on that took me a while to go through, and I think I threw out half of them, b/c with these I was having problems. It was media related though).

Hard drive on the other hand, I have very little faith in. I've had quite a number of drive failures in my time (1 Western Digital, 1 Micropolis, and a string of IBM's), and generally am a little reluctant to trust anything to a hard drive. One day I'll drop the cash on a nice tape drive, but for now I just backup my "important" stuff to DVD's.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (2, Funny)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480573)

1/10 failure rate? what kind of crappy media are you buying?

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480593)

actually, it was more related to inability of the OS to prioritize and prevent buffer underruns. this was a long time ago, in internet years. I'm sure it's more reliable today, though I have little interest or use for it.

1/10 failure? (1)

NuShrike (561140) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480780)

Maybe if you stuck to reliable media like Taiyo-Yuden instead.

I personally don't have burn failures period. At worse, 1 in 1/100. Even if there's failures, the cost is counted in pennies making backups so cheap it's pointless to quibble over it.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15481079)

I agree with your post but your failure rates seem inflated. I've yet to have a write error for a data DVD on my drive (I've burned over 150 discs) maybe your just using a bad media/drive combo.

Re:why pay more for DVD drive? (1)

ScottLindner (954299) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481262)

Good write up and well thought out.

The only place I somewhat disagree.. or have a different opinion/view is with data backup. I agree, DVD's completely suck, but so do hard drives for other reasons. Neither medium is great for long term storage. However, hard drives really don't have great capacity for data backup. DVDs aren't great either but there is a difference. DVDs are extremely cheap media these days. I have about 50GB of data that is extremely important to me that I'd like to maintain incremental backups. I've thought of ripping out 10+ DVD-Rs once a month and sending them to my families for safe keeping (in case of theft or fire). Sure, many will croak in time but my thinking is that one of those bastards will have the files that I might have clobbered. Magnetic media is not good archival at all. They do have archival quality DVD-Rs but they are way to expensive for incemental backups like I'm considering.

It seems that even though the density of optical media is far superior to any other form of data backup available, that magnetic tape solutions are still the most reliable and cost effective. WTF is up with that?

So... my point is that there is a nitch they could shoot for. As people's digital photo collections grow with increasing threfts from viral activity and user error, the need for large scale data backup will only grow. Even if they don't want us to actually be able to use this great media for enjoying the new Hollywood rollout, there's another market just waiting to be tapped that most people don't even know they need or want yet. I think it will take time for people to truly appreciate the need for backups of our important data. We tend to trust that single desktop, single OS, and single hard drive way too much. An ad campaign with the truths of these risks would be an effective way to market these products. But I doubt they'll go for thar market because to be honest... most people will prefer the risk over the increased cost and hassle. Then whine about it when their OS or single hard disk fails.

Difference? (5, Insightful)

nickmue (905710) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480276)

How much of a quality difference are people going to be able to notice over conventional DVD? I know I can't be the only one who doesn't have a HD monitor.

Re:Difference? (2, Insightful)

LocoMan (744414) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480475)

I have to agree there. I don't see PCs having as much of a pull on the HD-DVD Vs. Blue Ray war as consoles will (Xbox 360 Vs. PS3). In the movies section, anyone that will choose a format specifically to watch HD movies now won't want to see them on a relatively small 20" or less monitor, they'll want the whole home theater thing and will want to see them as big as they can. On the data side, I would definitively find an use for them (I work with video, which means VERY big files), but in the general audience most people I know are just now getting DVD drives for their computers, and most computers I see being sold come with a DVD/CD-RW drive, with a DVD-RW as an option, but one that few people take and even less use.

They will eventually be a big player in PCs, though, that I'm sure. I just don't see them being something important to the early adoption of either format.

Re:Difference? (2, Insightful)

thatguywhoiam (524290) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480644)

I have to agree there. I don't see PCs having as much of a pull on the HD-DVD Vs. Blue Ray war as consoles will (Xbox 360 Vs. PS3).

PCs won't have much effect on this until Apple ships a Blu-ray drive.

You may scoff, but they have a long history of doing just that. And with Apple sitting on the Blu-Ray board, and Jobs basically being new High Overlord at Disney, I think Apple may be the piece of the highdef format wars that people are overlooking. If there are a flood of MacTels and PS3's with Blu-ray all of a sudden, that will play a significant factor.

Re:Difference? (1)

Doctor Faustus (127273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481070)

In the movies section, anyone that will choose a format specifically to watch HD movies now won't want to see them on a relatively small 20" or less monitor, they'll want the whole home theater thing and will want to see them as big as they can.
That home theater setup is across the room, while the 19" monitor is 18" from my eyes. Also, the drives shouldn't really cost that much in a year or two.

most people I know are just now getting DVD drives for their computers
I've had one since 1999, and I didn't get a DVD player for the TV until 2001.

Re:Difference? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480480)

You're still running at 800x600? Really? I can't remember the last time I saw a screen that couldn't do at least 1024x768. Because that's all you need to go to in order to get an improvement with a HD format. These laptops will probably be shipping with HD-resolution LCDs to match.

Re:Difference? (1)

kingsean (980135) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480571)

That's kind of the idea. Standard Definiton content isn't enough for high definition users, and standard dvds aren't enough for high definition content. People with regular monitors (television and otherwise) WILL notice a change in quality but to what extent depends on the viewing area of the screen. A movie sent out in 1080 progressive scan lines (~1920x1080) will look simply stunning on a television that can host it, but when viewed on a normal tube television (~640x480) the picture must be proportioned accordingly. Standard DVDs currently can hold enough information for a bare minimum for high definition televisions (minimum from a *phile) which is, of course, not acceptable.

Re:Difference? (1)

trak0r (839081) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480706)

we should get with the program as an industry and embrace compression schemes really. I've seen 700 MB div x files that look absolutely amazing to the point I couldn't tell the difference between it an a dvd on a 1024x768 resolution. Imagine taking the hd-dvd and compressing it to 4 gigs!! then we wouldn't have to use the new drives and have a war between them. I could handle putting an hd-dvd quality video on one dvd in div x. we have the technology to have the players decode the div x and current encryption... there is a few players now that do it already.

What?! Yes, you DO have an HD monitor! (4, Informative)

Were-Rabbit (959205) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480663)

Once you go into 1,024 x 768 resolution or higher, you're running HD because you've gone beyond 720p scanning. (PC monitors are progressive, not interlacing.) The size of the screen itself is NOT synonymous with the number of pixels on the screen.

Re:Difference? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481059)

HD monitors are probably a lot more common than HDTVs. Anything of a decent quality, 20" or over, and not older than dirt will probably support full HD. It's a whole hell of a lot cheaper than an HDTV, too, although granted not necessarily digital; I got my Sony 22" trinitron (refurb) for $250 or so. My monitor does 2048x1536 as compared to 1920x1080. It's true, though, that an absolute crapload of monitors go only to 1600x1200, which is 320 pixels short in the width department...

Why would I want this on my PC? (4, Insightful)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480279)

It's heavily DRM encumbered.
They have a history of disabling previously working hardware without warning (HDCP, Cablecards).
The standards are not settled yet and very soon there will likely be a Dual drive.
The average human can't tell the difference on a 55" screen across a 20' living room from a 720p.

Re:Why would I want this on my PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480794)

Who the hell sits 20' from a 55" television? Get real.

Re:Why would I want this on my PC? (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480828)

My living room is 22'x12'. I have a 57" tv. Sitting on the couch, my head is about that 19' from the front of the screen. It seems large.

My god man- when I go to my friend's house we are a good 15' from a 32" TV and it is big enough.

I think you may be sitting a bit too close.

Re:Why would I want this on my PC? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481241)

And I think you may be sitting a bit far from the screen. The optimal viewing range for TVs is considered to be approx 2-2.5x the diagonal screen size. For your 55" screen, that's ~9-12 feet. For your friend's 32", it's about 6 feet.

dell and ps3 = blu-ray win (1)

YourM0m (968051) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480288)

With dell backing and the ps3 my guess is blu-ray will win out.

Re:dell and ps3 = blu-ray win (2, Informative)

*weasel (174362) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480416)

S-VHS technically beat ED-Beta too.

Lot of good it did em.

Right Choice (5, Interesting)

neonprimetime (528653) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480304)

Dell, the world's biggest PC maker, has said it is committed to Blu-ray - Wrong Choice
Hewlett-Packard, the number two player, has said it will support both standards. - Right Choice

Re:Right Choice (0)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480363)

NNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooooooooo!!! I WANT Blu-Ray to LOSE!

Re:Right Choice (4, Insightful)

WinPimp2K (301497) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480406)

Well, fence sitting is a nice approach when you don't want to commit. And, given the current legeslative climate it is probably the best approach.

If this foramt fracas were going to be resolved in the marketplace, the winner would be the player that got the most drives out there and in use. Don't try and even remotely recover costs on the first million units, but make darn sure you have a million units out there at 50-100 bucks a pop before the other camp ever knows what steamrollered them. Do what it takes, waive licemsing fees on the first million units and the first 50 million pieces of media, etc. For content, approach the studios about releasing 1 season per disc of old series.

But, if either camp tried that tactic, the other camp would just make darn sure that massively released format would wind up incompatible with some legeslated requirement that has not yet been written.

 

Re:Right Choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480641)

Dell has more or less admitted that they'll have HDDVD options available to let the consumer decide.

It's a bigger problem for Apple, who in their Dear Leader position, will need to make a choice for Mac users, and then pray that its the right one.

Re:Right Choice (1)

Mike Savior (802573) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480757)

I believe Apple supports blu-ray.

Re:Right Choice (1)

FatherOfONe (515801) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480936)

If/when blu-ray wins then the resources that HP put in to supporting both standards will be a hit to them. HP is in a weird position because they helped develop the blu-ray standard and then in came Microsoft and said that they hate it because it runs Java. A ton of higher ups in HP love Microsoft and bet the farm with their company and Microsoft.

In short it will come down to movies. It appears that the chicken and egg problem will be solved by the PS3, and thus it looks like this is one reason that blu-ray will win. It doesn't matter if it is the best hardware or not, but getting 6 million units out while your competition gets well under 500k out is a strong sign you will win. Now add to that the content providers are mostly in favor of blu-ray and you start to have a one sided war. The "only" companies that don't like blu-ray is Toshiba and Microsoft. This isn't Sony against Microsoft, but it is most of the content providers plus Sony plus other hardware manufacturers agains Microsoft. Given that Microsoft can't leverage it's monopoly on this issue and the fact that they didn't inlude a HD-DVD player in their new console, significantly hurts their ability to turn the tide in this battle.

Now the only advantage left for HD-DVD that I see is that it is cheaper. Unfortunately for Toshiba, they are going to compete against a wide range of blu-ray players and the cost difference will probably diminish quickly. So with little to no movies, and little to no content providers it appears that the delay of a cheap blu-ray player (PS3) hasn't hurt blu-ray much at all. It appears that Sony has learned from it's last war and has tied up content providers this time, so the real reason betamax lost won't be an issue again with blu-ray.

So, your point that Dell should "push" both technologies. Why? To most people the war is pretty much over, and it will definately be over by this Christmas when 4 million+ blu-ray players hit the market.
It might be time to short some HP stock, and buy some Dell stock.

Re:Right Choice (1)

Futaba-chan (541818) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481111)

Dell, the world's biggest PC maker, has said it is committed to Blu-ray - Wrong Choice
Hewlett-Packard, the number two player, has said it will support both standards. - Right Choice
Um, no. Having one consistent standard makes it safe to buy a drive without worrying that you've just bought a Betamax -- and it makes it safe for studios to actually release movies on them. Having two competing standards is just about the worst possible outcome, especially if some titles are available on one, and some on the other. I don't care which format wins, I just want there to be a clear winner, and for the loser to quickly exit the market. I don't plan to buy either format until that happens.

Re:Right Choice (1)

MaXiMiUS (923393) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481124)

Dell, the world's biggest PC maker, has said it is committed to Blu-ray - Wrong Choice

Shouldn't that be left choice? :)

War? I believe Brad declared it. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480306)


Brad Jesness FAQ last updated January 12, 2006.

Disclaimer: The Brad Jesness FAQ is being hosted by the owner of WilHelp.Com, Taylor Jimenez. This FAQ is about a USENET abuser and Internet stalker named Brad Jesness. He achieved initial notoriety by abusing the newsgroup sci.psychology.psychotherapy, but has expanded his abuse to many other groups, including, ironically, groups devoted to discussions of Internet abuse. This FAQ was not created by the current host and there are many individual contributors who have provided information in the hope that the more people know about Brad Jesness, the greater the likelihood that he will realize his internet abuse is not achieving the desired result. Make no mistake: If you publicly (on the Internet) confront Brad Jesness without some measure of anonymity, Brad Jesness will not hesitate to call your employer or even law enforcement to harass you. As time goes on and this FAQ is seen by more and more people, Brad Jesness will become less and less a threat. But vigilance must be maintained. Brad Jesness has shown for many years that he becomes utterly obsessed with anyone who dares confront him in public. His obsession is well documented. By the time you finish this FAQ you should have all the information you need to protect yourself from a genuinely dangerous person.

Brad Jesness has claimed to have worked in the psychology field yet it is not clear exactly what it was that he did. From 1995 to the present Brad Jesness has attempted to represent himself as a reputable authority in the field of psychology. At one point Brad Jesness had claimed he was a "certified professional" but was forced to retract such claims. The Minnesota State Board of Psychology, the Minnesota Board of Teaching, Post-Secondary Education and Higher Education boards/agencies all say that Brad is neither licensed nor certified by them.

Brad Jesness has redefined internet stalking for the 21st century. He has attempted to bully, extort, threaten and harass people who dare speak out against his failed logic or outright, dangerous advice. With over 1078 known aliases and his abuse of anonymous remailers, Brad Jesness has managed to become a one man harassment army. Never in the history of the internet has there been such an arrogant and shameless abuser. Several thousand USENET postings over an almost ten year period can be attributed to Brad Jesness or his "supporters". Almost 100% of those posts were mean spirited and/or defamatory.

Many in the field of psychology believe Brad Jesness suffers from acute Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Brad Jesness' demonstrated method of internet abuse would support such a theory. Brad Jesness' intense hatred and distrust of most psychologists will unfortunately prevent him from getting the help he so desperately needs. Apparently Brad Jesness has developed some kind of home-grown, half-baked theories regarding psychology. At the heart of this snake oil is the notion that conventional psychology is completely wrong and only Brad Jesness' radical approach is valid. This type of belief structure and worldview are consistent with most people who suffer NPD. This is really unfortunate for the internet community because Brad Jesness believes he is normal and will never seek help on his own.

The typical M.O. of Brad Jesness is to enlist the help of a "Supporter Of Brad", (SOB) to actually post the offensive material. These posts always speak of Brad Jesness in the third person and are written in such a way that Brad Jesness could perhaps try to deny his authorship. The interesting thing about these posts is that the SOB author frequently has really positive things to say about Brad Jesness. To date, no one other than Brad Jesness has been identified as an SOB and Brad Jesness has offered no hard evidence that any other people are responsible for the SOB abuse of USENET. Posting anonymously cuts both ways. The mechanism that provides his deniability (anonymous remailers) also makes it impossible for him to prove if someone has ever impersonated an SOB to discredit him. The irony that an anonymous poster is so well known and *anything but* anonymous is not lost on those who know about Brad Jesness.

Brad Jesness will also threaten legal and criminal action for those who associate, post or talk about his FAQ too. Those who stand up to Brad Jesness do so at great personal risk. Brad Jesness has threatened legal action against all involved with the FAQ since September 4, 2001. To date, Brad Jesness has not made good on his threats. There is documented evidence that Brad Jesness has been investigated for alleged internet stalking. Let this be a warning to all of you. Brad Jesness is a ruthless and mean-spirited person. He attempts to destroy people's reputation out of jealously or spite and if you stand up to him, you could be the focus of endless defamatory yet anonymous USENET postings. The best thing to do with Brad Jesness is ignore and avoid him.

blu-ray gets used (1)

jaimz22 (932159) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480321)

i think it's voodoo pc that is putting blu-ray in thier pc's either them or alienware, I can't remember.

Re:blu-ray gets used (1)

Grifty (939983) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480591)

Judging by the post above, which states Dell is offering Blu-ray only, my guess would be that alienware would follow suit, being recently acquired by Dell...

Re:blu-ray gets used (1)

jaimz22 (932159) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481049)

your absolutly correct. i knew about dell snatching up alienware, it had just slipped my mind.

Well, here's a battle (4, Interesting)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480328)

I would like to see both of them lose. Don't buy this junk. And I do mean junk. This stuff will not be reliable. How long will it be before the next "new" format comes out? I saw talk of it somewhere. And even if not for the threat of progress, we shouldn't buy DRM'd hardware, no matter what. It's a shame that we are starting to see modern electronics as a "controlled substance".

Re:Well, here's a battle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480739)

which astroturfing marketing shill modded the parent post as a "troll"?!

Re:Well, here's a battle (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480855)

Agree with the AC poster.

We are getting some wierd moderating around here lately.

There is no way the above post was a "troll".

Minority Vote? (1)

MeBadMagic (619592) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480342)

I hope to see at least one of these candidates go after the 'minority' marked of non M$ PC's if the PC is going to be the next battle front...

Any guess as to who would be more or less inclined to support Linux?

B-)

Re:Minority Vote? (2, Insightful)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480534)

Well, since there aren't even sanctioned ways to play *regular* DVDs on a Linux computer, expect the lack of support to continue. The *AAs want to be able to dictate what you can and cannot do with digital media down to the last inch with DRM, and most of the FS/OSS people are vehemently against these imposed restrictions (read: GPL v3.) Both the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are expected to be encumbered extremely heavily with DRM, so the most the FS/OSS crowd will do is possibly be able to read and write blank Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs, mush like current DVDs.

Re:Minority Vote? (1)

MeBadMagic (619592) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480662)

agreed.

And if Novell hasn't registered a vote yet, with their push for a standard API for hardware manufacturers to release drivers, it might be a good time to woo them into a vote....

Personally, I wouldn't want to see a DRM blue-ray driver, or any DRM device, but *would* like to see Linux (or SuSE/Novell) get some attention as an un-tapped market.

B-)

Re:Minority Vote? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481311)

Well, since there aren't even sanctioned ways to play *regular* DVDs on a Linux computer, expect the lack of support to continue.

I know of a widely-available Red Hat box [geekswithblogs.net] you can buy that will play both DVDs and HD-DVDs.

Re:Minority Vote? (1)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481381)

Huh, I wonder how long until somebody takes the AACS decryption method off of that 256MB flash disk on that embedded Red Hat-based HD-DVD controller and lets the rest of us not running embedded Linux on that particular hardware play HD-DVDs?

Re:Minority Vote? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481457)

Mu guess? Probably longer than anyone is willing to wait. I realize that my original answer doesn't do much to refute your main point. I just find it interesting that the only HD-DVD box out there right now runs on an OS that most users can't use to even play regular DVDs.

Combo Drives? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480351)

I have to wonder if there will ever be a combo drive which will play both Blu-ray and HD-DVD. I suppose not, since corperations always want to push their own formats, but it would be nice.

I don't want to have to have two or more optical drives in my workstation, and I don't intend to buy either Blu-ray or HD-DVD alone, since half of the movies, etc, produced will only be avilible on one or the other.

I wish they would just do the same stuff done with this that they did with DVD, take the best features of each format, combine them, and build a single format.

Let the Format War... Continue...

My understanding is no for now (but maybe yes) (1)

blueZ3 (744446) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480556)

Apparently, the competing systems require different lasers (or perhaps it's different read/write heads?) so a "combo" drive would require two lasers and licensing fees to both groups, making it almost as expensive as buying two separate drives. With standard DVD it was easier to make combos, because it was merely a format difference, not a hardware difference.

Re:Combo Drives? (2, Interesting)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480558)

If you remember, there used to be two DVD formats too, and each required a different player. Today's combo drives simply can use either format at a time, and be able to work with both formats, not using a mixture of both of them.

However, I do bet that in a couple of years, there will be combination Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drives unless one format really wins out. But I think that won't happen as there are too many companies on both sides that are getting royalties from discs and players to let "their format" die off.

Re:Combo Drives? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480638)

If I remember correctly, JVC was working on a disk (multi layer) that had both formats on one disk. So it could be used in any drive. Not sure if it will be supported or not.

Re:Combo Drives? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480787)

HD-DVD is backward compatable with DVD. Meaning you can play DVD in HD-DVD drives. This is because of the Red Laser which is used in both.

BluRay uses a Blue Laser. BluRay is completely proprietary. It would be nearly impossible to have a dual HD-DVD/BluRay drive.

So, if you have a substantial DVD collection, purchased or copied, it will not work or play in BluRay drives at all. Sooo.., if you have a BluRay drive, you will still need another drive, either DVD or HD-DVD to play any of your old DVDs.

Yep, that's right, if you go BluRay, you will need 2, count that, 2 optical drives, just to play, or pull info from, any DVD, DVD R/RW, or HD-DVD disks.

Re:Combo Drives? ... Actually, Yes! (2, Informative)

Pongidae (978225) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481418)

Actually there are plans by manufacturers to create Combo drives.
Do the research before posting comments!

Google Search: http://www.google.com/search?q=hd-dvd+BlueRay+comb o+drive [google.com]
1st two hits:

Blu-Ray is hitting verticals (3, Interesting)

99luftballon (838486) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480353)

The Blu-Ray camp are trying to push their media into storage as fast as possible as well - I've had loads of briefings on how data centres will love Blu-Ray. Personally I have my doubts - Microsoft and Intel's support could prove crucial in making HD DVD the drive of choice for PCs.

But I thought (2, Funny)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480362)

Sony said we didn't need a PC? [ign.com] The PS3 is supposed to be good enough for anything.

Sigh. (1)

TheNoxx (412624) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480395)

I fail to see any point in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, particularly when they cost so damn much. I suppose for the few people that need to back up tons of data all the time, it'd be a good thing, but there's absolutely no reason for an average consumer to buy one. DVD movies don't need any improving, very few average consumers need anything more than writable CD's, or at the very most, writable DVD's. In fact, I can't think of a single thing that the everyday person would need either drive for.

Re:Sigh. (1)

Durandal64 (658649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480482)

DVD movies don't need any improving ...
They most certainly do. Ever watch a DVD on an HD-TV? HD reveals all the glorious compression artifacts and pixelation of MPEG-2. DVD looks good on SD because everything gets blurred to shit. But HD-TV's need HD movies.

Re:Sigh. (1)

TheNoxx (412624) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480517)

Can't say I've really noticed a difference. My mother just bought herself a large plasma HD TV, and when I went over and hooked it up and ran the DVD player through it looked pretty much the same as the HD cable channels. Progressive scan and high storage DVD's look pretty damn good, certainly good enough that you need to plop down a few hundred bucks.

Re:Sigh. (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480494)

If you're backing up tons of data HD or BD won't be a good choice for you either. Everything about both formats is utterly pathetic. Why would I want to buy HD/BD for backing up 60tb of data? That would suck, give me LTO-3 or some other high density tape. SDLT-2 is also good. The only trick will be the cost of media and by association the cost of burners. Everything says they are ridiculously priced thus far so tape will probably be the best bet especially if you look at the pricing on dual layer DVDs.

Re:Sigh. (1)

TheNoxx (412624) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480607)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but it was the only angle I could possibly think of as to why someone would buy it. Hell, I don't know why they stuck one of those things in the PS3 to begin with, for if I'm not mistaken, it's only going to be used for movies... although I could've heard wrong. There's just no market for these things. The most amazing bit is that there are two companies trying to be the first to fail horribly, rather than the usual lone-man fuckups of the marketplace.

Heard that one before... (3, Insightful)

tygerstripes (832644) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480420)

"Oh, who can tell the difference between HD-TV and normal, eh?"

Look, we heard that one before with CDs replacing cassettes/vinyl, and look what happened. Yes, it was (more) expensive initially, but there were small but noticeable benefits and, lets face it, we in the 1st World are consumer whores. Given the amount of time we spend watching TV as a society nowadays, I really won't be surprised when nearly everyone has a HD-TV in 3 years' time just for that improved resolution or whatever.

Accept that it's going to happen. The only question left is which way the chips will fall. I would rather see Blu-Ray win out simply because it has a far better spec than HD-DVD, but unfortunately I think the gap between X-Box360 and PS3 release will push markets towards the latter. C'est la vie.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Re:Heard that one before... (1)

sog_abq (960133) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480519)

Whats funny is that they keep saying that 'this year' will be the year that more hd-tvs are bought than non-HD tvs. And it seems for several years running it hasn't been the case. I'm wondering if all this next gen stuff is too much. Maybe its like cars, sure a Porsche is faster / safer / better than a ford whatever, but for a lot of people their ford whatever is 'good enough' and they don't want to spend the extra money for a premium car.
If the betterness was enough, then wouldn't ford be out of business. Last time I checked there were a lot more fords sold than porsches. So, if HD/BlueRay is the prosche, maybe it'll never take over. For me at least, the benefits do not outway the costs. But maybe if I could pick up more chicks with my sony Blue-ray player that would be an incentive? Where are those marketting folks, why aren't they doing this?

Re:Heard that one before... (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480650)

It's been addressed a lot of times, so I probably deserve to be moderated redundant for this, but here goes:

CDs had significant advantages over vinyl:

  • CDs stored 74minutes of audio. Vinyl stored about 20 minutes per side. You had to touch your music player four times as often with Vinyl as you did with CD.
  • CDs were physically smaller.
  • CDs were more jog-resistent. You could use them while walking or in-car.
  • CDs supported skipping between tracks easily. With vinyl this required manually moving the needle.
  • (Later) CDs could be easily be ripped to a computer for creating playlists or transfer to a portable device.
The quality (which is very subjective; some people find the digital distortion more irritating than analogue, some are the other way around) issue was much less important. DVDs had a similar set of advantages over VHS (smaller size, more durable, playable in more places). For a lot of people the quality was not important; my stepfather can't tell the difference between DVD and VHS quality, and very few people actually use the 5.1 output.

For a next-generation format to succeed, it has to offer something other than increased quality. Sometimes it doesn't even have to offer that; compare SACD/DVD-A to MP3, for example. Direct-download of H.264 video would have the same advantages as MP3, as well as (potentially) better quality than DVDs. If someone decided to offer 720p H.264 downloads, I can see this eclipsing both formats. If not, I expect to see the movie industry wondering why there is so much piracy of recompressed HD-DVD / Blu-Ray films.

Re:Heard that one before... (1)

MukiMuki (692124) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480738)

Tell me how many HDCD's, SACD's, and DVD-Audio Discs you, your family, and your friends own in comparison to CD's and we'll talk.

It seems to me that solidarity is what's needed. (4, Insightful)

mmell (832646) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480450)

From us

Collectively (as a nerd community) we should all refuse to purchase or recommend the purchase of either of these technologies until the DRM is either perfected or removed.

Since "bits never die", the likelihood of the DRM being made even remotely correct is somewhere between 'slim' and 'none'. So that leaves . . .

Not purchasing DRM-infested (crippled) hardware. Not recommending to our non-technical friends that they install such infested (crippled) hardware. Actively opposing the PHB's of the world who will start clamoring for a business use of such infested (crippled) hardware.

Work together people - let's vote with our wallets, the way free enterprise is supposed to work!

Re:It seems to me that solidarity is what's needed (1)

BACbKA (534028) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480752)

For the same reasons (not a single cent towards the CSS chips/zoning bullshit etc) I don't even own any DVD hardware either, not just this even-worse-DRM-crippled versions, which I sincerely wish battling each other as hard as possible with a speedy death to both sides participating in the battle. Using CDs for critical backups, and over-the-network remote backups here.

Re:It seems to me that solidarity is what's needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480835)

"refuse"? Were any of us planning on getting this junk in the first place?

Re:It seems to me that solidarity is what's needed (1)

crossmr (957846) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480978)

Work together people - let's vote with our wallets, the way free enterprise is supposed to work! unfortunately the biggest part of society is the sheep and what the fringe does has no real effect on the market.

japanese computer companies... (1)

capsteve (4595) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480459)

...need to learn from the past when all of them were releasing their own branded os/hardware/peripherals/etc back in the mid 80's. it was horrible. sony/hitachi/mastushita/NEC all had their own OS and apps-suites, most of them would not inter-operate. then apple came in and showed the japanese how double-byte computing should really be done. yeah, it was somewhat inelegant at the time with the special fonts and soft-keyboard for kanji/hara/kata, but it was AWESOME! of course with XP and OSX these problems are all but a bad memory, except for the format feuds... now 20+ years later we're still seeing the same bullsh*t with competing proprietary hardware formats, hoping their's will be the winner in both consumer and computing arenas. I hope some small innovative american or israeli company will come in and re-define this area for the japanese tech companies and learn 'em a lesson;-) damn bluray-hd... and another thing... the dutch! they need to be learnt a lesson too for fueling the fire!

DVDs are dead (1)

troll -1 (956834) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480460)

Won't DVDs eventually go the way of the floppy disk anyway? I mean, content control aside, why keep data on cumbersome disks when we have an Internet?

time for me to take a break... (1)

revery (456516) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480495)

When I first saw the article headline, I swear it read "PC's Role Key in New Formal Wear"

I had about 3 seconds of excitement thinking about playing Tux Racer on my Tux, customized holographic clothing a'la Automan [wikipedia.org] , and the possibility of hacking into the evening gown of a beautiful but dangerous female Russian spy.

But then I remembered this [tronguy.net] , and was glad I was wrong...

No Value Add (2, Insightful)

slashbob22 (918040) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480512)

The bottom line is that they will have to provide some sort of "value add" to the PC consumer. Last time I checked, only a very select number of PC games even came on DVD. With the amount of content available on the Internet, the next-gen DVD formats are going to be video exclusive - which provides very little value add to my 20" monitor. No to sell the new format your audience is not the PC users it's your Couchaplex(TM) Home Theatre owners who have $$ to spare. On top of that, the Couchaplex users won't see the heavy DRM applied to the media like your PC users will. Once the word gets out that your PC locks down while the disc is in the drive, I dont think there will be many takers.

Who needs it? (3, Interesting)

ultramrw21 (889103) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480531)

Frankly, Im totally happy with the current DVD format, I can store all of my important files (and not so important) on only a few discs. Like most people in this country, Im gonna wait till ALL the components of a High definition entertainment system are at a practical cost, which IMO includes reading and writing drives for PCs.

Why choose a format? (2, Interesting)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480602)

I still use a DVD player, but my primary means of viewing is my DVR. Come the end of the month, my plasma will arrive and I will upgrade to a HD-DVR for $200. I'll get quite a bit more use out of that than I would out of a $900 player that makes me choose a format. Skip plastic and go digital.

multi-functional (1)

franksands (938435) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480614)

Wouldnt' it be nice if someone released a multi-functional that reads both formats? Problem solved.

Shot Themselves in the Foot (5, Insightful)

LewsTherinKinslayer (817418) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480631)

HD vs Blu-Ray; which will you choose? I think I speak for the majority of people I know when I say: neither. Every single person I know is still using a standard 19" NTSC and most people don't have anything bigger than 30" in their living room. Most of them also have 19" monitors and very nice PCs, but I can't see them bothering to spend the money on any high definition drive or the media.

High Definition is a rich person (or not so rich, but with lots of disposable income,) toy. And most people aren't gonna be buying into that fad until its a lot cheaper. Throw in the heavy backlash from the tech-savvy crowd because of DRM, the lack of a single standard format, and the high cost of media compared to "traditional" DVD, and its gonna end poorly for these companies.

Very few people outside of video editing, etc, are going to take advantage of this technology for burning storage. And the PS3 may be linked with blu-ray, but that doesn't mean its going to drive sales of the media, outside of the games.

Re:Shot Themselves in the Foot (2, Funny)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480893)

I guess it depends on what you define as "rich".

You can get a very large phillips projection screen TV for 1199 from circuit city when it goes on sale on the major holidays. After taxes-- 1299. After taxes and service plan 1699.

That's in the budget of anyone making 50k a year and up. If it is the main thing you want in life -- it's in the budget of people making a lot less-- probably down to about $35k.

Re:Shot Themselves in the Foot (2, Informative)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481167)

and it's a complete ripoff when you look from that $1699 tv on one shelf to the $300 30" sdtv on the other.

most families have kids.. you know.. kiiiiiiiiddddsss. they suck up a lot of money you know, you have to plan for their college, for your own retirmenet, pay a mortgage.

within the budget? maybe in your dreams.

WTF (1)

Nazmun (590998) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480929)

I know anyone with a 19inch NTSC resolution. How many people do you know running at 640x480? Most people at the very least run 1024x768 (which IS HD) on a 19 inch monitor and a good deal run at leat 1280x960.

Re:Shot Themselves in the Foot (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480994)

High Definition is a rich person (or not so rich, but with lots of disposable income,) toy.

What I find highly amusing is that many slashdotters seem to disagree on this point. They talk about how they have HDTVs that cost them only $500, which is still twice the cost of a SD set with the same screen area. Meanwhile they ignore the fact that most people would rather have a bigger picture than a sharper one. Even I would rather have a big screen SD than a dinky little (by dinky, I mean anything less than about 35"... we're talking television here) HD. In fact I have an old Sharp video projector that's VGA resolution, way less than even 720p, and it looks pretty good to me. Not great, of course, but it was five bucks :)

The simple fact is that the greatest benefit to HD is being able to read text on it and such. This advantage is most pronounced using progressive scan, of course, so you can't have the cheap crap HD, you need the real thing. This benefit is in turn most beneficial to users of computers, PVRs, and set-top boxes. SD with RF or Composite is enough to use the program guide, so the only people who REALLY have to care are people who want to hook a computer up to their TV. This is a tiny subset of the market at the moment (it's getting more popular all the time of course) and is not going to be selling HDTVs.

HD is neat. I would love to have an HDTV. But for watching movies, TV, anime, what have you, there is very little benefit. Sure, it looks a lot nicer, but there are few situations in which it will make clear that which was formerly hidden.

Are these companies retarded?! (4, Funny)

NeuroManson (214835) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480664)

Seriously, HD DVD formats on a laptop are laughable. LCD displays are limited in resolution, and for that matter, so are current HDTV monitors/displays. Your HD DVD would look the same on a 17" widescreen laptop as a non HD DVD, unless you're lucky.

The ONLY reason someone would want to pirate an HD-DVD format is to reduce its quality to be viewable on current technology.

Re:Are these companies retarded?! (2, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480869)

Seriously, HD DVD formats on a laptop are laughable. LCD displays are limited in resolution, and for that matter, so are current HDTV monitors/displays. Your HD DVD would look the same on a 17" widescreen laptop as a non HD DVD, unless you're lucky.

Virtally all laptops now support at least 1280x1024 (which allows 720p, or 1280x720), and many now come with 1920x1200 (allowing 1080p at 1920x1080).

Now, will that look good on a 17" display? Across a room, from the TV stand to the couch - no. On your lap? It makes NTSC look like NTSC did old 8mm home movies by comparison.


You'll most notice the difference in text, though. Although plenty of dongles exist to let you use an old NTSC TV as your monitor, any text thereupon needed at least a 40pt font for the barest of legibility, and the flickering of any sharp transitions (such as the edges of those huge letters) would give you a headache after five minutes. On an HDTV (better yet an HDTV-compatible LCD) you can read text literally as easily as you can on a monitor of the same resolution.

Isn't this really... (2, Interesting)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480666)

Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD = DVD-R vs. DVD+R

The only real winner is to support both formats...

Re:Isn't this really... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480908)

WRONG!
HD-DVD is backwards compatable to DVD, whereas BluRay is not.

Why do you hate America? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15480723)

I know the topic looks like flamebait, but the most common criticism I hear from proponents of this technology is, "The **AA is trying to secure their IP from piracy. What do you have against protecting the investment of copyright owners?"

I mean, how do you counter an argument like that without coming off as some kind of communist?

Re:Why do you hate America? (3, Interesting)

nonlnear (893672) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481125)

I mean, how do you counter an argument like that without coming off as some kind of communist?

How about by using a libertarian privacy line of reasoning. That's about as non-communist as you can get.

On the other hand, what's so wrong with sounding like "some kind of communist"? It's only a dirty word in the USA - and only in certain circles of ignorance at that.

My result: Two losers (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15480977)

I won't buy either. Why should I?

Both are ridiculously crippled with DRM. Both are by a magnitude too expensive. Neither offers any value that a DVD doesn't. I don't watch movies on my computer. Software, even games, don't need more than a DVD or two can offer. Why bother going "either or" if the obvious choice is "neither"?

Words have meaning (1)

nsayer (86181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481094)

Neither offers any value that a DVD doesn't.

That statement is not true. Both offer the ability to store full length movies at HD resolution.

That's "value" - "worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit." It may not be value you're willing to pay for (I'm not either), especially considering the huge negative value the DRM offers, but you can't say that there is no value offered over a DVD.

How long did it take for DVD-ROMs to take hold? (1)

Chabil Ha' (875116) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481097)

"PCs equipped with HD DVD or Blu-ray will cost several hundred dollars more than comparably equipped models with DVD drives--a factor that should keep sales relatively low this year as consumers wait for applications and video titles that can take advantage of the higher capacity."

You know it's interesting that it took me the longest time to get a DVD-ROM. Why? Well, my computer was primarily for gaming and surfing. It has taken a long time for games to come out on DVD-ROM. They always came in a pack of 1-4 CD-ROMs. It finally got to the point where watching a movie on my PC was interesting. But then I just downloaded them from the Internet. Will I ever get a PC with HD-DVD or Blue-Ray? Probably not. If it takes these technologies just as long to come out with content suitable for those media, maybe I'll get one--in 10 years.

what they mean is.. what they dream of consumers.. (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481107)

"as consumers wait for applications and video titles that can take advantage of the higher capacity."

no.. as they fantasize about consumers waiting for more applications/video titles.

Nobody I know (and i live in a pretty good neighborhood) gives a crap about their creative new way to push drm on people.

they don't care about either format and are happy with dvds, and a few more pixels of resolution is not that much in terms of added value.

Fill a half-n00b in (1)

y0bailey (973734) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481203)

I'm still not 100% sure on this but I'm assuming HD-DVD will be backwards compatible with the current DVD titles released? If I am assuming correctly then I am all for HD-DVD taking off (and this is assuming blu-ray will not be able to play current DVD's due to the completely new laser?)

Doesn't this seem to make the most sense? I know Blu-ray seems to be the more "powerful" format, but does anything over 40gigs per disk really matter to most low, mid, and high range computer users? I would much rather have the backwards compatibility and the still amazing storage capacity the the uber sweet and new blu-ray.

Re:Fill a half-n00b in (1)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481306)

ALL next generation DVD players will feature dual pickup's, that is, having 2 sets of lasers to support backwards compatibility. This is true for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, both next gen DVD players use different wavelength lasers which cannot read current generation DVD's.

It would pretty much drive a format to quick obsoletion if the players didn't support both DVD and CD formats. It is easy and cheap enough to use both lasers in the same player as the technology to implement old DVD's is dirt cheap (consider that you can buy a DVD player for $30 these days, the cost of implementing a laser is probably well under $5 in parts).

Not that Sony is aware of what it takes to kill a format as they are the format killing champions. I am sure they will come out with a Blu-Ray player that isn't backwards compatible anyways.

Re:Fill a half-n00b in (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481314)

they both use blue lasers.

it's possible to build backwards compatibility into both systems by incorporating either a color shifting laser or an extra red laser into the device with some extra firmware for dvd playback.

that said, I don't trust the people putting out the devices or the titles for them.

the devices are built so any corporate bean counter can flip a switch which completely disables your already purchased hd-dvd or blu-ray device.

If they are allowed to renege on their delivery of the product after the fact, than we should be able to renege on our delivery of money for said product, which we are not allowed to do.

Not sure PC's will have any affect (1)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | more than 8 years ago | (#15481406)

Look, if anything, PC's have the effect of standards blending. When the DVD+, DVD- format war began, PC makers simply blended the two standards and came out with universal drives that could read and write both formats. I am sure, give it a year or two, that you will see hybrid HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives (that is if Blu-Ray actually succeeds).

The bottom line is, I am putting my money on HD-DVD simply because Sony has not yet developed a winning format. Sony will pretty much release Sony movies on their technology. HD-DVD has the backing of many more movie studios as well as Microsoft. Microsoft is the key to the next-generation DVD format war because they will most likely integrate HD-DVD support into a Windows Media player or OS. PC makers will offer HD-DVD drives simply because Windows will native support it (only Sony's Vaio line will including Blu-Ray drives, and who owns a Vaio?).

Sony can't even get the PS3 release with their own Blu-Ray format because they are still at odds with themselves about how Blu-Ray should be implemented. While I know there are other people in the Blu-Ray group, this is like saying you can't drive to work because you refuse to put gas in your car. Its your own damn fault, and its Sony's own damn fault they can't release Blu-Ray today. Blue light laser technology was feasible when DVD's first started coming out, the 5 years since then has been to figure out a way of protecting digital content, NOT in research and development of the technology.

Blu-Ray will enter Wikipedia along size Minidisk, SuperAudio, UMD, and BetaMax as failed Sony technologies that Sony alone was responsible for causing the failure. There is no format war, people are delusional to think that Blu-Ray will succeed. Those that do must enjoy self flagellation as the working at Sony must practice every day.
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