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The Fiber to the Premises Install Process

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the wtb-fiber-pst dept.


SkinnyGuy writes "Fiber to the Premises (FTTP) or Fiber-based broadband is still in a very few areas, but PCMag's Lance Ulanoff has it and he seems to really, really like all 15MBPS of it. There's also an extensive slideshow on the whole installation process." From the article: "The power out is connected to the box, and the fiber ends in the box and comes out as Cat 5e, which runs back through the hole all the way to a new D-Link router. That's right: In addition to the box on the outside and the UPS inside, Verizon also gave me a new wireless G router, which includes four wired ports. This is a lot of free equipment (though I might incur some charges if I were to quit FiOS before the year had gone by). All this--not including the through-the-tree cable run--took another 2 hours or so."

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David Blaine Fails, GNAA claims responsibility (-1, Offtopic)

timecop (16217) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491008)

David Blaine Fails, GNAA claims responsibility

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Oh gee, thanks Verizon (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491025)

For giving this guy all that free stuff. Now could you do something about your monopoly in my area or at least not use the opportunity to gouge us on DSL prices?

Re:Oh gee, thanks Verizon (1)

bec1948 (845104) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491260)

I hate to defend Verizon or any of the carriers, but come on. Competition in this business means giving your competitors all but free access to your very significant investment in cable, right's of way, poles, central and POP equipment, distribution equipment etc, for essentially free.

It's only competition if someone else is willing to go through the process of obtaining rights of way - today the biggest cost - and all the rest and competing directly. It's generally no in a community's interest to allow someone to run new power/phone poles, cables, etc for a new vendor. That's the reason cable and voice companies have monopolies today.

OTOH, that Verizon tends to rip us off... you bet. That they should have competition. Definitely. But their business model has changed significantly over the past decade and a half. They used to charge by the minute for their lines. Now it's all flat rate and fixed fees. They've had to completely rebuild their infrastructure and the deal with competitors such as cable, IP over power lines and soon long distance wireless and in cities, free WiFi

Get over it. In a few years, the whole equation will change again. The business models will once again need to be revised and new competitors will appear. This is a whole new world. The major carriers are still going to have to provide universal service, 911 and all the rest. They're still much more reliable than any alternative for POTS and the fact that you don't need electricity locally to make a POTS call is still a reason to keep a line no matter what you use for broadband.

Re:Oh gee, thanks Verizon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491621)

You do realize that most of the poles,wires,cables is bought and paid for by building contractors or homeowners. When my house was being built the price of pole and wiring was added into the price of the house.

Availability (5, Informative)

Yaksha42 (856623) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491031)

It's too bad that it's not very common, it's cheaper than my 5mbps cable connection.

You can check availability here [wikipedia.org].

Re:Availability (1)

Richthofen80 (412488) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491413)

The availability is very odd with Verizon in Massachusetts. My friend has the FiOS service in Tewksbury, a town of about 28,000, about 40 minutes north of boston. However, in Lowell, which adjoins Tewksbury and is the third or fourth largest city in the state with about 80,000+ residents, my other friend does not have service available.

I thought the way they rolled these out was to cities and densely populated areas first

1.7 gigabytes in 12 minutes (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491041)

In darkened coners all over the land, *aa execs are quietly sobbing.

Oh heck, I'm quietly sobbing.

Competing technologies marching on as well. (2, Interesting)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491042)

Fiber-based broadband is still in a very few areas, but PCMag's Lance Ulanoff has it and he seems to really, really like all 15MBPS of it.

Gee, I'm strangely not that impressed. I can get 10Mbps cable modem service right now ($44.95/mo), and I'm in Kansas. I just checked AT&T/SBC's site and it looks like their top of the line service in my area is only 3-6mbps.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

Rosonowski (250492) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491068)

That's megabits, not megabytes.

15MBps = 120mbps, about 12 times faster than your 10mbps connection, and about 20 times faster than AT&T's 6mbps service. ;-)

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (2, Informative)

Quikah (14419) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491106)

Verizon FIOS is only 15 Mbps, not 15 MBps. The /. summary is incorrect (shocking I know).

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491110)

"What did you order?"

"15 megabits,

So whether MBPS or mbps is the correct abbreviation, the article does clearly state 15 megabits. In other words, about 2.5 times what Comcast cable offers in my area.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491125)

That's megabits, not megabytes.

No, it's not.
Go read the article. The summary here has the label in all caps, but it is Mbps. Bits.

"...When I told her that I was going for the $44.95-a-month 15-Mbps option (Verizon recently announced plans to up this to 20 Mbps), she got even cheerier..."

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

Bios_Hakr (68586) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491141)

TFA states that he got 15mbps service.

First, I downloaded the 1.7GB The Natural through Optimum. It took 45 minutes. Next, I unhooked the cable and plugged in FiOS. Downloading the 1.7GB As Good As It Gets movie took . . . wait for it . . . 12 minutes. Twelve minutes!!

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

cperciva (102828) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491215)

TFA states that he got 15mbps service.

No, 15Mbps. 15,000,000 bits per second is a good. 0.015 bits per second is not good, unless you're measuring the speed of an IP over Avian Carrier network.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (2, Interesting)

Professor_UNIX (867045) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491150)

15MBps = 120mbps, about 12 times faster than your 10mbps connection, and about 20 times faster than AT&T's 6mbps service. ;-)

Did you bother to RTA? The author transferred 1700 MB in 12 minutes which is roughly 2.36 MB/sec or about 18 Mb/s. Still pretty damn good compared to my 6Mbps/768Kbps ADSL service of which I realistically see 4 Mbps down and 600 Kbps up. What I want to see is an ISP with a clue start offering high speed connectivity. If I see another god damn cable provider or telco offer some absurdly high download speed with an upload speed less than 10% of the download speed and then have the nerve to give out dynamic IPs and block inbound ports I'm going to puke. Other than widespread piracy of copyrighted material there is absolutely no purpose to such lopsided connectivity (Yes, I'm sure there are those of you out there downloading Fedora DVDs every day.. riiiiight).

What I want is what you can get at most dedicated server providers: a 10 Mbps full duplex port in and out with a 1500 GB monthly bandwidth cap, no blocked ports, and a /29 subnet allocation. If they can offer that for $85-$150 a month including a server rental then surely a telco or cable provider can provide that level of bandwidth too. Give the Internet back to the people with affordable bandwidth and symmetric connectivity.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

kelnos (564113) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491242)

What I want is what you can get at most dedicated server providers: a 10 Mbps full duplex port in and out with a 1500 GB monthly bandwidth cap, no blocked ports, and a /29 subnet allocation. If they can offer that for $85-$150 a month including a server rental then surely a telco or cable provider can provide that level of bandwidth too. Give the Internet back to the people with affordable bandwidth and symmetric connectivity.
I'd love that too (and I'd absolutely pay $150/mo for it), but the dedicated/colo providers don't need to schlep that data from your house to the central office. They just have to push bits around their data center, and then in and out of their fat pipe(s). It's a bit of a different ball game than having thousands/millions of individual lines out from the central offices to each house. At least, it is with the current infrastructure available in the US.

Not to mention that the market for that is pretty small. Most people will be satisifed with a reasonably high downlink and much lower uplink for $30-50/mo, even if it's shared. For good or ill, product offerings are generally shaped by market forces...

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

apoc.famine (621563) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491617)

Damn. That's pretty sweet compared to my connection. I'm so far out in the boonies that I have to rely upon Ye-Old-Tin-Can-Onna-String DSL for service. The squirrels keep jumping on the lines, and that holds me back to about 400kbps down and about half that up. To put that into terms we all can work with, it took me about 6 hrs to download the 800mb update that was Dapper Drake.

The good news is that it beats my mom's 31kbps dialup connection....that must be why it costs 5x as much...humm....doing the math, I think I'm getting a deal here!

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

mattjb0010 (724744) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491102)

I get 11Mbps/1Mbps ADSL2+ where I live, and there are a lot of people who get close to the theoretical max of 24Mbps ADSL2+. For about US$45/month too. In other words, his fiber connection is slower than good old copper.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491107)

It's a 50% increase in speed for about 35 dollars; cheaper than cable. It's also fiber which means unlike cable, I believe, you don't incur slowdowns during busy periods if too many other people are on the same subnet. Also, this is the absolute lowest tier in speed. I believe Verizon offers up to 45mbps if you want to shell out a wad of cash. Granted it's not OC3 speeds since it's deployed asynchronous down versus up, but the price point isn't too bad. I've heard mixed reviews as far as latency is concerned, but for the most part it seems to be better in latency also. It's not hugely impressive, but I'd still rate it better than cable.

Obligatory /. comment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491523)

New Computer = $2999.95
15Mbps fiber connection = $44.95
Server slashdotted so your connection speed equal to a 300 baud modem = priceless

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

joel8x (324102) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491136)

Maybe you don't get it my friend - The capital B stands for Bytes, and the lowercase b in you 10Mbps stands for bits. Therefore 1 megabyte = 8,388,608 bits, where 1 megabit = 1,048,576 bits, so your connection gets 10,485,760 bits per second, while his gets 125,829,120 bits per second. Still not impressed??

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491192)

Maybe you can't read either the article or the previous posts in the thread. Or spot that the article summary is wrong either way you look at it, seconds should always be "s", not "S". Or the fact that in networking, the size prefixes maintain their SI meaniings. So no, I'm not impressed.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491204)

The FIOS connection mentioned in the article is 15Mbps. Small b. Bits. 15,000,000 bits/second. RTFA or see the Verizon FIOS website [verizon.com].

Also, kilo/mega prefixes are ALWAYS decimal, NEVER binary when measuring line speed in bits/second.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491394)

As everyone has already pointed out over and over again the /. summary is incorrect and he is getting 15 megabits not mebabytes. You would know that if you read the article instead of just coming into the comments to attack posters that are commenting accurately on the topic.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491143)

I'm in silicon valley and the best I have been able to get so far is 6Mbps ADSL from SBC. I dropped them when they told me they were no longer offering those speeds (and only offering up to 3Mbps). I switched to Speakeasy who sold me 6Mbps but could only deliver 1.5Mbps. I stayed with them because the price was right and their customer service walks all over ATT/SBC. SBC apparently has changed their policies (my guess is to compete with cable), but still the best I can do is either 6Mbps with ATT/SBC or Comcast.

I'm not too concerned, though. 1.5Mbps isn't that much different than 6Mbps. It just means you start up your really big downloads at night and go to sleep.

I'm more interested in my upstream speed and using my connection to host services. Cable can't do that for me, and no matter who offers me their DSL I can't find faster than 608kbps upstream. Verizon's FiOS in southern California offers 30Mbps down and 5Mbps up. *drool* Wish they'd get up here.

Re:Competing technologies marching on as well. (1)

DarkYang (942840) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491350)

Actually, I have 10Mbps cable myself, but the upload is only 384Kbps. My friend which lives in an area where FioS is available has it, and has a upload rate of 2 Mbps with a download rate of 15 Mbps (not MBps). We both pay $44.95/mo.

Looks good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491045)

Can someone who has this service let everyone know... is it good or is it whack???

Re:Looks good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491294)

I have fiber in Monmouth Oregon (small college town). Only $60 a month for 10up10down, works like butter (meaning its great)!

Re:Looks good (2, Interesting)

thinbits (904652) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491328)

I got the Verizon service last month at home and it absolutely rocks. Of course, the 15Mb download speed exceeds the the bandwidth of many smaller sites, so those don't go any faster. The install took about 2 hours and the installation was top notch. They ran Cat-5e to the other side of my house where I have all of the networking gear in a closet. The installers were quite professional and knew their stuff.
Pricing is something like $32/mo for 5Mb, $39/mo for 15Mb, and $170/mo for 30Mb. The installers mentioned Verizon was bumping the 15Mb service to 20Mb in some areas with no cost change to stay competitive.
My office is on a large fiber ring in downtown Portland, Or and has an uncapped (due to a problem at our ISP) OC-48 connection. I can pull files at a solid 15Mb/s and ping times are exceedingly low (~30ms). Working from home is much more pleasant now. :-)

Re:Looks good (2, Interesting)

--sc0rch-- (936299) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491404)

I've heard from other Verizon FIOS users that the D-Link router provided by verizon runs a special "-V" version of firmware that is not supported directly by D-Link. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone know what the different are (assuming it is true)? Has anyone tried to replace the D-Link with something else or is there a requirement to use it?

Different Pricing (1)

oxidecool (937717) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491571)

The pricing for FiOS can actually vary a large amount depending on your area. Especially on long island, due to competition with cablevision, prices are a bit cheaper. For my area the prices are 10Mbps/2Mbps for $35, 20/5 for $45, and 30/5 for $55. They also have the business plan which is like $190 for 30Mbps. I can't find the details on it right now, but you get something like 5 static IPs, all open ports and some web space on their servers and additional email addresses.

my neighbor likes it (1)

bobalu (1921) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491474)

My neighbor likes it, he has the 5Mbps version. (He's cheap.)

I have Comcast and it's about 4Mbps so if you need the extra speed it should be good. The thing that turns me off is:

a) I hate Verizon and
B) he said it took like three days to hook it up. And he's a programmer who works from home. Go figure.

I think I speak for everyone when I say (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491047)


Mod article down (1, Flamebait)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491048)

What kind of demented thing is this? Verizon is laying fiber so it can do an end run around cable franchising and supply TV, VOIP and broadband to customers. The cablecos are responding by rolling out higher speed broadband (like CableVision's Boost). How is that justification for some sort of Verizon puff-piece???

Re:Mod article down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491109)

Verizon is laying fiber so it can do an end run around cable franchising and supply TV, VOIP and broadband to customers .... How is that justification for some sort of Verizon puff-piece???

End run? They are running cables, just like they always have, just like the cable companies did. The only difference is that they are using Fiber & light instead of Copper and electricity. At the end of the day, it another (better) source of competition for Cable companies (Sat TV is a small threat, but has too many limitations). The basic service rocks. Go away you silly cable apologist, or we shall taunt you a second time!

Only 15MBPS? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491056)

Here in France, ADSL2+ gets us 20MBps (for almost everyone), and Optic Fiber gives some lucky Parisians (not all Paris, though) 100 Mbps. VoIP and IPTV are bundled with both. It feels like a sweet revenge, given the fees we used to pay 10 years ago, compared to the US. (ADSL2+/TV/VOIP is 15 to 30 euros per month, unlimited and comes with the equipment [tv decoder, adsl modem, wifi spot] freely. Tons of sweet features such as static IP address and personalized reverse DNS and other customizable stuff like some DSLAM configuration directives [interleave & such]).

American ISPs are cheap... well, expensive, but cheap :). Well, let's just say they surrendered to ours ;). just kidding.

Re:Only 15MBPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491104)

That was of course 20Mbps and 100Mbps. As in bits per seconds. Like ~2.5MBps and ~12.5MBps respectively.

Re:Only 15MBPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491147)

Watch it. We'll invade and steal your fiber.

Same Deal Down Under (1)

thedji (561789) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491524)

Even in old-fashioned Australia, we get ADLS2/2+ across most of the country. Albeit not 20 megabit due to the large distances involved but the average is around 12-15.

And why is 15meg a big deal when places like France (see parent) and Utah (see UTOPIA [ieee.org]) have 100 megabit active fibre networks?

"for almost everyone" (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491619)

http://www.internode.on.net/adsl2/graph/index.htm [on.net]

If a person lives within 1.7km of wire from their nearest concentrator, then they can get 20MBps.

If you think "almost everyone" lives within 1.7km of wire from their nearest concentrator, I think you're wrong.

Over time, as more remote concentrators are installed, most people in dense areas will be able to get something like this. But right now, I can't imagine that over half of the people in your country live that close.

No turning back (5, Informative)

the_tsi (19767) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491058)

Before everyone goes and gets FIOS for their broadband fixation, beware that in the vast majority of markets, Verizon *CUTS THE COPPER TO YOUR HOUSE* when they run the fiber for FIOS. They pull it out of the ground. You are off the grid. You are no longer subject to all the wonderful federal and state utilities requirements placed on telephone companies for purposes of "protecting" residential telephone customers. Your FIOS line isn't even really considered a telephone line in most states.

That means all that recent hubub about "competitive access" and "CLECs" and all that other theoretically Good (albeit practically Frustrating) stuff that opens up the telephone system no longer applies to you.

Yeah, I know we all hate the phone company, and everyone screams "well it's not like we were getting the service we paid for in the first place", but try writing a nastygram to your public utilities commissioner regarding faulty (or bad) service on your fiber, and there's a lot less they can do than if you're sitting on the "real" PSTN.

If you (or a future resident) ever wants to get the copper back, it could potentially be an administrative, technical, financial, bureaucratic, and/or logitistical nightmare.

Caveat emptor... although I sure wish it were available here.

Re:No turning back (1)

dfinster (65564) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491302)

Could you at cite a reference? If that's true, it's really interesting, but I have not heard this before. What is your source?

Re:No turning back (1)

kelnos (564113) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491309)

Do you have any sources to support this? I'm not saying you're lying or spreading FUD, but "random guy posting on Slashdot" does not an authoritative source make.

I have it, they did it (3, Informative)

RebornData (25811) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491405)

I've got FIOS and my traditional phone line now runs over the fiber They completely removed the existing phone box on the house and put the ONT in it's place... it has a similar block for wiring the house phone wiring to it. This is why the FIOS install comes with a UPS- so that your phone line will keep working if the power goes out. They didn't actually tear out the copper wire from the ground, but hooking it back up would be a project.

However, he's gone a bit too far with the regulatory fear-mongering. Yes, the fiber line is excempt from the regulations passed in 96 that forced the phone companies to allow competitive access to the copper that enabled Covad, Northpoint, and others to start building out DSL networks of their own. However, the FIOS phone line is still a tariffed / regulated service, with the same Public Utility Commission oversight as before.


Re:No turning back (1)

thinbits (904652) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491339)

I'm not aware of them pulling the copper in any of the Oregon insalls. They certainly didn't remove my copper when I got it installed.

Re:No turning back (2, Informative)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491437)

Verizon does NOT cut the copper to your house. They will do so if you request... because they offer phone service through their fiber (NOT VOIP) And its all on battery backup as well.

BUT... You the installer will ask you if you want to keep the copper or not. They will ask. If they dont, you can mention it and ask them to not remove it.

Its not a big deal at all.

Re:No turning back (1)

ytseschew (562867) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491574)

When I talked to Verizon a couple months ago about getting FIOS in the Pittsburgh, PA area they told me that if I got FIOS they WOULD take out my copper line connection (to the telephone pole) and I had NO choice in the matter unless I had a second line that was copper that I wanted to keep. I said "No thanks." I prefer not having to rely on the 4 hour battery back in case of a power failure plus I don't like the idea of having no way to go back if I don't like the service.


All What? (3, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491059)

...all 15MBPS of it.

Excuse me, but that seems pretty lame for fiber to the curb. At 15MBS, I doubt the cable companies are shaking in their boots yet.

Re:All What? (0)

Emetophobe (878584) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491183)

I can't believe how many people posting on slashdot don't know the difference between MB/s (megabytes/sec) and Mb/sec (megabits/sec). This is a site for geeks right?

Cable is 10megabit/sec (1.25 megabytes/sec), this guys fiber connection is 15 megabytes/sec (or 120 megabit/sec). There are 8 bits in a byte FYI.

Re:All What? (1)

Emetophobe (878584) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491203)

Oops, I apologize =) I can't believe how many people don't RTFA! *blushes* FYI: The slashdot summary is incorrect, the article correctly states it as 15megabits/sec.

Re:All What? (1)

Comen (321331) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491500)

The article says "When I told her that I was going for the $44.95-a-month 15-Mbps option (Verizon recently announced plans to up this to 20 Mbps"
So RTFA! this guy is not getting 120Mbps to his house!

Also I don't think people get it... PON or GPON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_netwo rk [wikipedia.org]
depending on what Verizon is currently using , It used to be just older PON, GPON can do alot more than 15Mbps, But they are planning to use what is left over for other services IPTV your Voice is on there, even though that don't take much etc...
But also they can crank up the bandwidth anytime they want.
They are not just going to start giving everyone 50Mbps bandwidth for $50 a month!
IPTV takes up some real bandwidth once you start talking HDTV and VOD and more than a couple TVs in the home watching different stuff.
This is the way it works people like it or not. Most new DSL ADSL2+ can do 20Mbps, but we only give out 10Mbps now, to people that can get that from the DSLAM.
But for people that can get 20Mbps and some people I work with do get that at thier home, they dont offer it yet. because competition doesn't demand that yet, and also bandwidth is still very expensive for the ISP, OC12 links to a major backbones are still expensive.

Also they guy makes it sound like because its Fiber its not shared, all ip networks are shared somewhere but mostly upstream, compared to cable topology. But PON is kinda shared also, its interesting, PON unlike its competitor Active Ethernet, PON is not a Point to Point service, because having to put active electronics so close to the home like with Active-E, Pon lets you send one fiber out to the edge of a neighborhood Passively and from there split it out, not using wavelengths so everyone gets there own frequency, but it just splits it so everyone gets the same signal all the time, then it use time slices to tell the box on the outside of your home when to listen and speak. so in a sense it is shared, less people on a main fiber means more bandwidth for all, but GPON does, I think 30 customers per fiber right now, giving around 60Mbps to each when full, but when there is less people you can get more.
So that guy in the article don't know jack either.
I am no expert, but have been reading on this stuff lately.

Re:All What? (1)

azav (469988) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491457)

At one point, the technician said...

The tech asked for my phone, made a quick call and then did another test.

"45 megabits . . . I know you didn't order that. It'll adjust."

You can get more bandwidth - you just have to pay for it.

Verizon's plan for world domination with FiOS (5, Interesting)

caryw (131578) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491071)

What they DON'T tell you is that they completely cut the existing copper pair to your house, insuring that you can never "downgrade" to a competitors DSL service if you hate them as an ISP or from ever changing your local phone carrier to any other CLEC [wikipedia.org].

CNET article on it [com.com]
From Northern Virginia? Visit Fairfax Underground [fairfaxunderground.com]! (Just added: Fairfax County wiki, need submissions)

Re:Verizon's plan for world domination with FiOS (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491122)

I have me doubts they will be able to continue to do that. Someone is going to want to sell their home at some point.

Re:Verizon's plan for world domination with FiOS (1)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491325)

...which means that Verizon will be more than happy to charge $xx per hour to run a new cable or splice together the old cable.

Hey, buddy, if youz wanna sell your house, youz gonna have ta ante up to get dat cable run to you house again, capisce?

Re:Verizon's plan for world domination with FiOS (1)

Professor_UNIX (867045) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491497)

Umm, I imagine it'll just be included in your normal activation and installation costs when you sign up for a new line. When the new homeowner moves in they call and activate their line and someone comes out and splices it together. No big deal.

I've had FiOS since November 2004 (4, Informative)

cheezus_es_lard (557559) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491074)

I was one of the first people in my town to get wired for it; we happen to have the headquarters of the old GTE entity in the city limits, and they piloted the service to the towns their execs lived in. I got lucky in the old broadband roulette game.

All things considered, the biggest annoyance is the fact that the power is no longer line-supplied. That 12v battery in my garage has been replaced twice already. Sooner or later, Verizon quits paying for them; I have no idea when, but soon.

My FiOS is set up similarly to that of the article, except my run comes into the NID outside, has the power source and battery separate, and splits off 3 phone lines, my WAN IP interface, and my FiOS TV connection (which goes to a splitter/grounding block in the attic).

All in all it's definately worth the speed at 45 a month. I'm paying about $230 a month after you roll in my 3 phone lines ($85) Internet@15/2mbps ($45) and FiOS TV ($100)

They offer a 5mbit, 15mbit and 30mbit connection, but the last I checked, they priced the 30/15 connection at $199 a month.


Re:I've had FiOS since November 2004 (2, Informative)

garylian (870843) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491509)

Yes, that 30/15 is horrifically expensive.

I just got Verizon's FIOS service earlier this year, after Charter cable was having so much down time it wasn't funny. Of course, Charter's downtime seemed to increase as Verizon started to dig in the area. Mostly DNS problems or so.

Now that I have FIOS, I really like it, and their FIOS TV prices seem to be better than Charter's digital cable offerings. However, I still see some DNS problems, so it feels like the backbone of the internet in this area (North Texas) is having some issues, since many of my neighbors experience the same thing.

But their 15/2 service is worth it. Now, if they would just pull the throttle off the VPN for work, I'd be a happy camper. Thing is as slow as a 56K modem at times.

Cat 5e? (2, Insightful)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491079)

My home-improvement project involved ripping off all the old siding and running Cat 5e wiring to every room.
Why did he not run Cat 6? I know that you don't really need it today, but surely for the little added cost it would be worth some additional future-proofing of his installation -- especially since the install job is not easy.

Re:Cat 5e? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491112)

why didn't he just run fibre?

Re:Cat 5e? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491208)

why didn't he just run fibre?

Because Fiber is an order of magnitude more difficult to install? Because you can run different signals over Cat 6 (phone, Ethernet)? Because fiber would be a lot more expensive? Because fiber is normally used for long runs, not short distances within a building?

Need any more reasons?

Re:Cat 5e? (1)

chris234 (59958) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491255)

Every see a computer ship with a fiber ethernet interface? Yeah, I haven't either. And yeah, not a whole lot of fiber gear in the local stores either. So, no point in running fiber around the house.

Re:Cat 5e? (1)

unitron (5733) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491400)

Future-proofing would have been if he'd been smart enough to install conduit if he was going to open up the walls.

Re:Cat 5e? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491423)

emm.... because even CAT 5 is fine for 100Mbps ethernet.

In fact, I have a full-duplex 100Mbps connection on this very computer I'm typing using only CAT 3. Sometimes I get some hiccups on the connection, but I'm not sure if it's the CAT 3, or because I probably did a half-assed job when clamping the RJ-45s.

Anyway, as far as I know, you need something better than CAT 5 only to handle gigabit ethernet, and since we're unlikely to see anything in that range for a very long time (100Mbps should be fine for many years), there is no reason for an added expense.

Verizon FIOS (1)

Mike Buddha (10734) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491090)

A friend of mine lives over in Verizon-land on the other side of town and he just got FIOS at 5Mbps for about half the cost of cable. I got a notice in the mail yesterday saying that Comcast was upgrading the cable broadband to 6Mbps. The latency on the fiber is way lower than on Cable Modem, though. Unfortunately, I live in Qwests area, so I'm screwed for Fiber. Oh well, $20 wireless is coming to town [oregonlive.com] anyways.

Re:Verizon FIOS -- Whoa... wait a minute... (1)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491305)

A friend of mine lives over in Verizon-land on the other side of town and he just got FIOS at 5Mbps for about half the cost of cable. I got a notice in the mail yesterday saying that Comcast was upgrading the cable broadband to 6Mbps.

Wait a minute ... Comcast is upgrading cable to 6 MB? Please check the postmark on that envelope. Comcast has been touting 6Mbps as their base speed for well over a year even on their internal newsgroups. Their new speed boost, trial runs in New England are now experimenting with 12Mbps for their basic broadband subscriptions and 16Mbps for their premium subscriptions. Are you sure that you're being upgraded to 6Mbps?

Verizon FIOS is amazing (1)

freefal67 (949117) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491119)

We have FIOS out in Westchester County, NY and it's incredibly fast. Definitely recommended if you have it in your area and have the $$$.

It's like drinking from the fire hose! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491120)

My FiOS was installed a few weeks ago, and even though it's *only* 5M bidirectional, it's a big step up from the DSL service I had. Because my town was only recently cabled for fiber, they had to bring it in from a cross street. In my case, even though my house is the 2nd from the corner, they had to bring it from the other street because that's how the utility poles were configured. With running the cable and switching allocated fiber (the fiber company had planned to put my house on the other street's cable), it took them about 4 hours to install the hair-thin bit of glass that's now providing really fast internet service, as well as cable (phone service isn't available yet), to my humble home.

And it's FAST, although most of the internet isn't. But when you find a fast feed, it's like drinking from the fire hose! When I see 100MB+ downloads, I don't even blink. Just click and go, and it'll be finished in a minute or two. Even better, uploads are just as fast. If you have the option to get fiber, don't hesitate. Just do it!

Re:It's like drinking from the fire hose! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491166)

Let me clarify - it's only 5M because that's all I signed up for. I could go faster, but at this point, it's not really needed. The local provider (minetfiber.com) offers speeds up to 30 for residential and 50 for businesses, but I couldn't really justify the cost.

(Well, I could, but I just figured I'd save the $25 a month and spend it on something else, like gas. :-(

Total Download Limits? (2, Insightful)

abscissa (136568) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491134)

Does anyone have any info on whether there are download caps?

Re:Total Download Limits? (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491451)

I have FIOS 30/5 service and there are NO CAPS.

I've uploaded gigs and gigs of HD 1080p footage (I'm a special fx artist) we're talking 30+gigs ...

Not a word from Verizon.

Should you really ask that question? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491455)

Since Verizon is one of the companies pushing for tiered-internet, would an answer really help you with something?

It won't matter if there are no caps, since when they get their way, they'll probably assign all non revenue generating traffic to the slow lane, so you'll end up with a super-fast access to their over-bloated website, while any torrenting will take forever.

What's the big deal? (1)

Flimzy (657419) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491163)

Aside from pricing or AUP's, etc... what's the big deal?

There are existing technologies already in place that can provide way more "bandwidth" than we actually get to use. In my area Cox offers a 9mbit connection... and is physically capable of much more.

Granted, Verizon (and all the Bells) don't have this sort of physical capability over old copper, so I see why they're trying to catch up with this fiber stuff. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just not anything very new. It's just a new method to achieve the same-old-results. So I still have to ask: What's the big deal?

Re:What's the big deal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491269)

2 Mbps up is the difference... not really touched on in the article, but for file sharing and what not... that beats the hell out of all the residential broadband solutions I've used.

yuo !fail it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491224)

bought the 7arm...

Verizon is not getting it (1)

suitepotato (863945) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491283)

My cable company delivers 15Mbps service on existing cable and some cable operators are experimenting with speeds as high as 50Mbps. The cable operators don't have to rebuild whole areas to do this in most cases whereas fiber pushes need massive investment to do. I wonder where that money comes from?

Oh yeah, the near-monopoly highway robbery pricing structures the Bells enjoy and the monies they expect to reap if net neutrality fails.

Silly me, I forgot they're going to rape the public to do it.

I've got it in TX (2, Informative)

NFNNMIDATA (449069) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491301)

And let me warn you: the D-link router is a POS. It reboots itself way too much (daily at a minimum, compared to never with my old Linksys). Very painful when you play WoW or work at home. I finally got around to switching back to the Linksys I had, but I had to get rid of the Sveasoft firmware I'd installed in order to get above 4mbps (and get 15mbps). It turns out the Linksys gets almost 1mpbs better throughput than the D-link in my tests as well, so if you get fiber do yourself a favor and ditch the D-link. Oh sure, you could go the customer service route, but I for one am too lazy to sit there pretending to empty my temp internet files while some stooge reads a troubleshooting script.

Re:I've got it in TX (2, Informative)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491472)

I used to think this. I once bought the Dlink 624 router and it did exactly as you described. It would reboot constantly... every 5 seconds.

I ripped that thing to shreads by word of mouth... I bought the linksys WRT54gs and returned the dlink-624 router...

That was a couple years ago...

Fast foward to today... I was very concerned about the dlink 624 that FIOS gives you. I had FIOS installed a few months ago and it turned out that the Linksys WRT54GS would SLOW MY SPEED DOWN. It would cut 10mb from the service because it couldnt keep up.

The Dlink 624 that i was given by Verizon with my FIOS install, runs at a full 30/5 mb service consistantly. AND there are no reboots.

The reboot problem that i experienced a year ago, does not happen at all with this Dlink 624.

BTW Verizon has custom firmware for the Dlink 624 that they give you.

The router is performing extremely well and I cant explain why.

Like i said, i bitched about the dlink 624 for a long time and praised my linksys but... that situation is now reversed oddly enough and i cant explain why the Dlink 624 works so well now.


Without DSL (1)

biblesage40 (977556) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491312)

Where I live optics are a bad thing:

Down the road there are optics not coppers so currently I can not get DSL
But I also can't get optics....for some reason
so I have dial-up

And behind the scenes, the real dangers (4, Interesting)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491318)

First, note that this isn't a symmetrical implementation. The Verizon network uses a PON scheme that can't really do symmetrical, and so, please download more than you upload. Secondly, they also have great difficulties with VLANs, and IPV6-- try it to see (not that IPV6 is worth a crap).

Let's see if it's future proof.... can they update their hardware to accommodate multiple concurrent IPTV QoS-based streams at HD raster/frame/color levels? No. Are they going to guarantee your network applications-- no matter who provides them-- won't be port blocked or attenuated by service type/port? No. This is called 'net-neutrality' and Verizon isn't net-neutral (just their services of course).

Can you join an MPLS network, even though Verizon supports their own internally? Nope. Can you join theirs? Nope-- not today anyway and no date in sight.

Can you run Skype and Vonage, or are they blocked? Can you run mulitple QoS- VoIP streams without raising eyebrows? Nope.

Can you get them to do an SLA? Nope.

Can you currently up-and-download stuff amazingly fast? You bet.

And no- I do not work for any carrier or affiliate of any kind. Instead, I've been following FTTX for 20 years.

thoughts on ONT bandwidth, etc. (2, Interesting)

CaptainPhoton (398343) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491323)

I am wondering what the maximum service offering from Verizon is. I get the sense from the article that the AFC ONT is underutilized. It shows the 4 POTS lines are connected but the author says "we don't need them all". The video port is not connected, and it looks like the connector has a cover installed (also the video LED is not on) so this is not being used.

Does anyone know the speed of the PON interface and whose OLT that Verizon is using? I'd be curious how much bandwidth from the optics the end user is actually getting to use. The typical value for upstream is 155 Mbps, so I'm guessing this guy is getting less than 10% usage of the optical interface (15 Mbps / 155 Mbps = .097).

Phone is not coupled with FIOS (1)

VitrosChemistryAnaly (616952) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491355)

From TFA:
Verizon has, unfortunately, coupled its FiOS service with its telephone service.
As a Verizon FIOS subscriber (have been for the past 4 months or so), I can attest that you don't need to have phone service through Verizon to get FIOS. In fact, I did have phone service through them and the day after my FIOS was connected I shut off my phone service and went with Vonage.

Does this guy do his research?

Also the article states that the speeds are 5, 10 and 15 MBps. That's wrong. It's Mbps.

port blocking and upload. (1)

vijayiyer (728590) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491362)

Knowing Verizon (and looking at their terms of service), they will block ports and tell you that servers of all types are forbidden. Combined with a lack of static IP address, that, IMHO, makes the bandwidth useless - I like to access my files from locations other than home, have a mail server, host a small web page, etc. Who really cares if you get tons of bandwidth if you can't use it for anything except watching a TV show? (maybe the rhetorical question is asked and answered)

I have FIOS 30/5... (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491427)

I have FIOS 30/5 service and i love it. I'm lucky enough to be in a Cablevision market and FIOS 30/5 is offered for $50 a month

The install process is a few hours long. I'm proud to be the first person in my area to have it. (I've had a few months now) I cant tell you how happy i am to no longer be a Cablevision Optonline broadband subscriber. I was one of the first Optonline subscribers and saw their service degrade horribly over the years.

FIOS has forced OOL to "BOOST" their speeds but they're still plagued by the same upload usage caps and harrasment.

FIOS is the internet as it should have been 10 years ago. Every house in America should have had Fiber 10 years ago.

If you can at all get Fiber and the service provider is capable of actually delivering on its promises (like Verizon FIOS) then by all means look into it.

I'm hardly a coporate fanboy but Verizon has done right this time. They made a very bold and expensive move by rolling out Fiber services to the house. Other companies should be as bold. Cablevision once was... and they may be again some day.

The great thing about Fios is that it will wake up the broadband world. We demand speed... So the Broadband providers of the world better deliver.

I get solid performance and I really cant be anymore happier with FIOS. Well if they gave me 100/50 ;)

Anyways... Bravo to any company willing to advance our civilization by not holding back technology and delivering it to the people.

heh... I have this available, plus Optonline Boost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15491468)

where I live.

Guess which I chose?

I'm speed testing at 27000kbps down, and 1793kbps upstream.
I'm paying an extra 15 bucks a month, but I'm getting double
the download speed _they_ _promise_.

optimum throws in a hosted website, and they open up port 80 for you.

Do they NAT?mowgli (1)

chuckbag (471448) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491481)

My question is if they NAT or do you get an IP?
More specificly, do they allow non-established TCP ports to your home system, or do they lock everything down and call it "security"?

I use a service like http://www.everydns.net/ [everydns.net] so that my home compter has a dns entry, and grandma can view pictures of the kids (the IP can change, and your url still works). To do this I need to make sure that they allow TCP ports 80, 443, etc. I had Verizon DSL for a short while until I realised that I was not able to send web traffic to my home system, so I went with cable internet.

I wonder if they block incomming (non-established) traffic. Anyone know?


What's the point? (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491565)

I mean, how many sites are really going to give you content at 5, 15 or 30 Mb/s? Bittorrent is the only program I've seen that will ever get download speeds above 800k on my computer, and the max is around 1500k.

Fiber hype (1)

SekShunAte (978632) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491578)

I'm from a small town called Lafayette, LA. We just had our government run utility system approve a bill to provide the funds for fiber to the home. While this sounds great, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. There is nothing in the bill that claims they MUST use the funds for fiber to the home. I'm curious what they mean by FTTP. Is this fiber to the curb or to the home? Is Verizon going to end up pulling the old telco trick of over-subscribing the one fiber drop and once this guy gets 20 neighbors on the same connection he'll be down to 5 Mpbs? One particular group in our town (which i will modestly boast to be lightly involved with) made sure that if this bill got pushed through, the fiber would be run to the home and not the curb. All I'm saying is that 15 Mbps is hype and nothing more. Verizon could easily turn up their speeds to 40 and 50 Mbps without even beginning to hurt their backbone. Then again, so could cable and phone companies too. Why don't they do it? Why does some cheese eating brown-toothed frenchman get extreme rates when we're drooling over 15 Mbps?

FIOS: I'm a 30 day free trial churner (1)

aggles (775392) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491591)

The FIOS installation went great and yes, they ripped out the copper. No problem with that. My telephone line used to be noisy and now isn't. The Internet throughput speed was as advertised, but with a gotcha. The 15MB transfer rate was only possible when I was transferring megabytes of data within a single socket connection (like FTP). Connection set-up time sucked. There must be some sort of proxy slowing down the set-up of each TCP socket. On web pages with lots of small objects, there is a lot of latency followed by bursts of speed. Page load time on sites like CNN was similar to the Comcast 4MB speed, but it looked way more jerky. I write off the lack of a clean internet pipe to the connection vs connectionless oriented telco switch mentality. I gave FIOS an honest 30 day shakedown, but canceled the service. The tipping point for me was the way Verizon operates its FTP server. Timeouts galore. Very unreliable. I could live with the bandwidth characteristics but not the way they operate the ISP services that come with it. I'm glad that I have a choice of broadband to the home. Comcast cable or Verizon FIOS. For now, Verizon is not ready for my business. It was polite about canceling my service and the bill it sent me, and leaving my voice phone on FIOS for the same basic rate. Who knows, maybe some day... The FIOS box is still in the basement and has a cable TV tap. When Verizon comes calling with a package that includes a lower price for TV service, I'll be ready to talk to them again.

FiOS availability in Cedar Park/Austin, TX? (1)

Runesabre (732910) | more than 7 years ago | (#15491592)

Anyone know when Verizon FiOS is supposed to be made available in Cedar Park/Austin, TX?
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