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PS3 Apparently A Computer

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the oh-ken dept.

440

Rinzai writes to mention an article on Gamasutra, noting a statement by Ken Kutaragi where the CEO states that the PS3 is a computer, not a console. From the article: "He went on to outline a scenario where many parts of the PS3 were upgradeable, much more like a PC, noting: 'Since PS3 is a computer, there are no models but configurations', and continuing (though talking in the theoretical): 'I think it's okay to release a [extended PS3] configuration every year'. It's clear from the comments that Sony is indicating that it will be possible to upgrade hard drives and perhaps even other components easily."

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So... (4, Insightful)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498147)

In a nutshell, Sony is conceding the next-gen console war and trying to take out the home computer.

'Luck with that one guys.

Re:So... (5, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498201)

Seriously dumb move, Sony. One of the things gamers and developers both like about consoles is that they aren't computers. The hardware isn't a moving target. You know your game is going to play the same on every console out there. No incompatability issues.

Argh. What arrogance and stupidity. What's next, the executives of Sony all line up and moon us?

Re:So... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498344)

They have threatened to punch in the stomach anyone who buys a PS3.
The price is the price and even without games, we could punch our customers in the stomach and they'd still buy the PS3.

Re:So... (3, Insightful)

RoadDoggFL (876257) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498533)

I was thinking, with the way Sony's going consoles will lose the common hardware configuration. So it's possble that now there'll just be standard hardware configurations... say if you have certain parts from 2008 then your PS3 could be considered a PS3-8. Well could this philosophy of standardizing hardware be applied to PCs? Sony's edging closer to PCs, what if PCs also edge a bit closer to consoles? Hardware manufacturers could categorize their hardware to meet a specified performance on a specified hardware setup to label their hardware with standardized performance designators.

That's not to say I'm in favor of this... but having those standards in place, I feel, would greatly help PC developers.They'd be shooting for a 2008b hardware configuration when developing their game rather than shooting in the dark. I realize I haven't really explained this too well and if somebody cares to elaborate further then feel free. I also realize that this would require a certain level of honesty and cooperation among hardware manufacturers that likely won't be happeneing any time soon, just a thought.

Re:So... (1)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498537)

Not that it really matters. Back in the early days of the PS2, game bugs weren't exactly super-common. Nowadays, however, companies pump this shit out so fast that they can't do proper Q&A. I'm not necessarily trying to say that bugs are a new thing, just that there are a shittonne more of them these days than ever before.

My point is that the hardware isn't really the problem anymore. Yeah, it's a factor, but it's pointless until they actually start writing code that works for the hardware they can be 100% sure is there.

Re:So... (4, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498320)

It seems weird for them to call it a computer. I would think a better tactic is to call it a multimedia centre. That would require that the PS3 can perform in such a role. Technically could, but this is Sony we're talking about here. The XBox 360 could have been that too but MS chose to NOT allow you to rip DVDs to the device and NOT have any kind of PVR functionality (even through a dongle) and NOT be any damned good for video content at all unless you stream from a PC (wtf?).

If Sony could produce a device which some or all of those things, that they could score a major coup. After, all most people only have so many plug points and space by their TV. If this thing can play discs, then why not store them too. They could sweeten the deal for themselves by having a built-in movie download service for $$$.

The system has the potential, but it remains to be seen if Sony being Sony will cut off its nose to spite its face. Again.

Re:So... (3, Informative)

Don Tobin (320926) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498424)

XBOX 360's Media Center Extension compatibility is actually not any good even if you DO stream from a PC. Ask anyone who has a reasonably sized media library how their experience went with media discovery and the ludicrous symbolic link methodology utilized in the process. After waiting 3 days for your XBox 360 to unfreeze you might be able to select a song before it freezes again.

Where would you like to freeze today?

Re:So... (1)

jambarama (784670) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498560)

It is supposed to run Linux. Assuming it is a full distro that you have real access to (which may be assuming too much from proprietary Sony) - they can't stop you from ripping DVDs, adding linux supported capture cards, and becoming a real multimedia center.

If it could do all this easily enough - they might have convinced me to get one.

Re:So... (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498405)

Allow me to take this cheap shot just once... Yeah, it's a home computer replacement alright! With that 16MB/s L1 cache that thing could run rings around an IBM XT!

Re:So... (4, Informative)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498484)

Except that it doesn't have a 16MB/s L1 cache. It has 16MB/s read speed for the cell SPEs to read the GPU's memory, which is something that you rarely if ever have to do in games.

I dislike Sony as much as the next guy, but come on :P

Re:So... (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498605)

Bah. First I forget my <p> tags then my lame joke gets shot down. And now someone'll probably take a cheap shot.

Re:So... (1)

jambarama (784670) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498536)


No seriously - they are. Acording to Sony, the PS3 is not a gaming console [dailytech.com] . Sony Computer Entertainment's Worldwide Studios president Phil Harrison is "We believe that the PS3 will be the place where our users play games, watch films, browse the Web, and use other [home] computer functions. The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC." It is supposed to replace desktop computers, be a total media center and play some games on the side.

Oh yeah, it'll cure cancer too.

Re:So... (1)

Half a dent (952274) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498615)

I for one will be welcoming the new PS3 Viao console!

That wont save it (2, Insightful)

sanmarcos (811477) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498154)

Consumers of gaming consoles buy consoles for gaming, not because it is a computer.

Even with the "extra" feature of being a computer, at the price it is, it will most probably sell very badly, if not fail.

Sorry Sony, you made a *serious* mistake. Remember that money is one of the most important things in this world, even if it comes and goes.

Re:That wont save it (1)

Tanmi-Daiow (802793) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498581)

I agree completely. They could have gotten it to work if the average actual computer was more expensive than $600, but thanks to Dell, a consumer will see the PS3 "computer" vs. the $400 Dell and see that they can do what they want with the Dell and buy that instead.

Well... (5, Funny)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498158)

...so is my Abacus.

So, what are you going to do?... (1)

msauve (701917) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498219)

Add more beads to upgrade it into a hexadecimal calculator?

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498282)

Yes, but does it run linux?

Makes sense (4, Interesting)

DavidLeblond (267211) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498161)

Its certainly priced like a computer, not a console.

So if the PS3 is basically a computer, why not get a computer?

Re:Makes sense (2, Interesting)

rstidman (711726) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498188)

Because a computer can't play old psx games legally? Allegedly the ps3 will play all your old games from sony psx systems. Plus have you seen the prices for gaming-oriented peripherals and high-performance parts to accompany? Makes a ps3 look cheap at 600.

Re:Makes sense (1)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498518)

When the price for the PS3 was announced, I specced out the parts for a computer with comperable performance and price. For $700, if you're willing to give up TV-out and go with a wired game controller, you can get a computer that's got the same graphics power as a PS3, and almost the same CPU power.

As for old PSX games, fuck "legal". An emulator means you don't have to worry about making it to the next save point.

Re:Makes sense (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498225)

Actually it's priced higher than some computers. Currently I can get a low-end Dell with LCD monitor for $600.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498261)

Because for $600 you would just get a video card?

Re:Makes sense (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498328)

So if the PS3 is basically a computer, why not get a computer?

Because a hot-shit graphics card will run you $400; You can get the PS3 for the price of a graphics card, DVD-ROM, case, and a decent power supply, and you still don't have motherboard, cpu, memory, hard disk, or a game controller.

Also because the PS3 is supposed to play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games, as well as Blu-Ray movies (FWIW). PC plays PS1 games, and not necessarily all that well.

Re:Makes sense (1)

EmperorKagato (689705) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498469)

You're right a hot-shit graphics card could run you $400 if you're not a smart consumer.

The PS3 would not suit my needs for a Personal Computer. I'm sure I would have a difficult time loading Visual Studio on a linux machine.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498604)

I'm sure I would have a difficult time loading Visual Studio on a linux machine.

Visual Studio sux anyway.

Re:Makes sense (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498491)

But you don't need a top end video card to play games. And a decent computer will have more processor power, a larger hard drive, more ram, and run programs other than games. As a computer, the PS3 is lackluster. As a gaming console, its overpriced. This is Sony trying to do damage control (and failing).

Blu-Ray? (1)

theelectron (973857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498523)

I would say Blu-Ray is still a good ways off from being the new DVD standard. I still don't see that as a feature. Don't put all your eggs in one basket just yet. If I wanted a Blu-Ray drive I would wait until there is a decent selection of Bluray movies out, and by that time (if it happens, which I doubt: Sony formats anyone?) the drives should pretty cheap (unless Sony tries to charge a lot for the use of the technology, in which case it will be gauranteed fail).

PC plays PS1 games, and not necessarily all that well.
An, yes, but a PC also plays PC games, surfs the 'net, rips and burns music, is much more customizable, etc.

Re:Makes sense (4, Interesting)

Shihar (153932) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498343)

Maybe you like kludgy 1st person shooters and the inability to play most RTS and turn based strategy games, and hate quality MMORPGs?

Personally, I'll probably get a Wii. Why? Wii knows what it is. It is the thing I bring out when I have a few friends over and we want to screw around playing whatever insane game Nintendo has brought to the table. Wii is also priced such that it recognizes that it is not the center piece of my entertainment. Wii looks like it is going to be cheap, fun, and just the sort of things to waste some time with when the friends are over without pissing off my girlfriend for being anti-social.

If I want FPS, play on line, or do anything that requires graphical power to run, I would rather just use a computer. I don't tie want to tie up the TV to play an MMORPG or waste hours on some online FPS. Further, the controls on a computer are many times more satisfying then those game pads for the type of games it takes a computer to run.

Personally, I think the PS3 is a grievous mistake. Wii is going to clean up the casual gamer market and hardcore gamers are going to take one look at the PS3 price tag and decide to go do themselves a favor and just buy a new computer. The only people I can think who are really going to get much functionality out of a PS3 that they won't get out of a Wii or a computer will be sports games fans. Even then, the X-box 360 will put up a good fight for even those folks. What the x-box lacks in slightly worse graphics it will make up for by selling at less then half the price of a PS3 (by the time the PS3 hits).

The PS3 wants to be the centerpiece of a home entertainment system. I don't think that this is a bad idea in theory, I just think that it is premature. In another consol generation or two I think that consoles might be accepted enough to start blazing trails into other areas of entertainment, but I don't think that the time is right yet.

Of course, I suppose we will see. It seems like common sense that the PS3 is a mistake, but I figure Sony is paying someone 6 figures to do a proper market analysis. You would HOPE that that person has a better understanding of the market then we do. Only time will tell at this point. Personally though, my money is going to stay in my wallet until Wii comes out. If I decide to drop 600 dollars, it will probably be on a new computer, not the PS3 entertainment center of d00m.

Re:Makes sense (3, Funny)

bob65 (590395) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498512)

[My wii] is the thing I bring out when I have a few friends over and we want to screw around Sorry I couldn't resist. Ok mod me flamebait.

Re:Makes sense (1)

monopole (44023) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498486)

Because the PS3 comes with the rootkit preinstalled. Of course you'll have to pay for the monthly DRM rootkit upgrades.

You had me at 'apparently' (5, Insightful)

r_glen (679664) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498164)

A computer, huh? Sold! And here I was afriad my $600 machine was only gonna be able to play games.

Seriously, is there any distinction anymore? Does being easily upgradeable magically make it a "computer"? I still consider my original NES - having a processor, input interface, and the ability to read instructions on ROMs and provide output - "basically a computer".
This sounds more like a change in marketing strategy than anything else (compare "hey, the PS3 is twice the cost of these other consoles" to "hey, this PS3-computer-thingy is only half the cost of my desktop computer!") Either way, I wouldn't be pleased knowing that after shelling out $600 I will have the option to pay more next year to keep the thing updated.

Disclaimer: I'm a Nintendo fanboy and have never had any interest in PlayStation consoles.

Re:You had me at 'apparently' (2, Insightful)

oringo (848629) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498361)

The original post seems to based the claim of PS3 being a computer on the rumor that it is upgrdable and configurable. Well...my car is upgradable also, and so is my bicyle, I also vaguely remember having to choose between a V-4 and a V-6 model when I first purchased my car...

Re:You had me at 'apparently' (2, Insightful)

Don Tobin (320926) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498478)

Mod parent up.

Standardized parts and upgrades were a result of the Gun manufacturing industry weren't they?

So, in effect, Computers aren't Computers at all, they're guns!

Now that the PS3 is a gun it should have NRA support n'est pas?

Re:You had me at 'apparently' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498603)

According to Next-Gen.biz, SCEA's PR chief, Molly Smith, resigned yesterday after leading the operation from the PlayStation 1 until now, a ten-year tenure. Sony has yet to make an official announcement.

http://rpgs.joystiq.com/2006/06/02/playstation-pr- chief-jumps-ship/ [joystiq.com]

Is it my imagination or does it seem like Sony has been making a lot of PR/Marketing mistakes lately that they wouldn't have made even a few months ago. A couple of days ago when I heard of Molly Smith's resignation I figured either her replacement is awful or she jumped ship because she was not willing to continue with this insane strategy.

Worst. Idea. Ever. (4, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498168)

Atari VCS: Atari, Spectravideo [atarimuseum.com] , and Perphial Visions Inc. [atarimuseum.com] all tried to create a keyboard for it. Only the Spectravideo keyboard made it to market. Only the Spectravision keyboard made it to market. It flopped.

Intellivision: Mattel promised from day 1 that the Intellivision would be able to be turned into a full computer by adding a special keyboard component. Unfortunately, the component [webcom.com] proved too expensive to manufacture. When Mattel was finally forced to release the product due to an FTC fine, nearly every unit was returned as broken or defective. Mattel then shifted gears in a hurry and released the Entertainment Computer System [webcom.com] , a quick hack produced by a secret project that was intended to get Mattel out of hot water. Predictably, it flopped in the market.

Odyssey 2: Magnavox actually integrated a keyboard into this console, but gave no thought to an OS, tape drive, or printer. There was a BASIC kit released for the European version, but otherwise this console's potential as a computer was sadly underutilized.

Coleco Adam: Coleco had the bright idea of creating a computer that could play Colecovision games. Consumers couldn't decide whether or not it was a game machine or a serious "home computer" system. Combined with its odd design (the power was routed through the printer) it flopped in the market.

Atari 5200: This actually WAS a computer packed into a game system case. Unsurprisingly, no peripheral components were produced to prevent competition with the Atari 400/800 systems.

Atari 7800: Again, a keyboard component [atarimuseum.com] was created, but never marketed. With Nintendo deciding NOT to ship the Famicom Floppy Disk Drive in America, Atari may have finally realized that trying to make a game console into a computer wasn't such a good idea.

PlayStation 2: Sony tries to make the PlayStation into a generic computer with a keyboard/mouse attachment [linuxdevcenter.com] , a harddrive, and a copy of Linux. Sony kills the product citing poor sales.

PlayStation 3: Sony tries to differentiate their console by claiming that "it's a computer". Welcome to the 1980s.

Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498287)

It's funny that you mention all of Atari's attempts to turn their consoles into computers since they were actually fairly successful as a computer company at the time. You'd think they'd have done a better job of it with their consoles.

Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498473)

Atari was always a completely screwed up company, so it's no suprise they never figured out how to co-market their consoles and their computers.

Probably the smartest product Atari made was the XEGS [stateoftheark.co.nz] -- a game console based on the 8-bit computer. Unfortuately it came out about 4 years too late, and at the same time that Atari was trying to sell the 7800 console.

Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (5, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498300)

PlayStation 2: Sony tries to make the PlayStation into a generic computer with a keyboard/mouse attachment, a harddrive, and a copy of Linux. Sony kills the product citing poor sales.

Actually, they were trying to make it into a generic game development workstation. It was basically a poor man's TOOL, or a second generation Net Yaroze. Very poor, but anyway... They weren't REALLY trying to make it a general purpose computer, or they would have added more memory.

The Dreamcast is actually the first console really usable as a computer; it has the low memory problem too, but it's considerably better documented than the PS2, whose internals are still mostly a mystery to anyone not gifted with a real dev kit. AND, they shipped a keyboard, mouse, ethernet adapter, and VGA adapter, and you could buy them one at a time. Of course, Dreamcast was murdered by a tag-team of Sony's Marketing Department, and ARRRR PIRATES. I mean, it was just so damned easy to copy the games, at a time when broadband was becoming prevalent and CD burners where everywhere. Anyone who says it wasn't a factor in the DC's demise is living in a fantasy world.

The PS3 is the first console really useful as a computer. It has plenty of ram, plenty of I/O, and plenty of horsepower. The Xbox is almost there, but has too little memory. (FWIW, I do run linux on my Xbox occasionally.)

If they can avoid fucking it up to the point where games don't work right on the various revisions of the console, and they give us a genuinely useful linux environment that can support all the latest eye candy, I think they could actually get some mileage out of a strategy like this. Certainly, a $600 Computer/Video Game System makes more sense than a $600 console.

Two word rebuttal Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

voss (52565) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498325)

Commdore 64 --- that is my rebuttal. Explanation. The commdore 64 was originally designed as a video game
machine, even the production model came with a cartridge slot. It was so successful that it killed the video
game market for the next two years. It sold 17 million units. People had no problem finding great games for it.

1) Its the hardware stupid.
2) Its also the software stupid

The Atari 7800 keyboard could have worked, it was a good product, it was just two years too late...
Atari had lousy management.

Re:Two word rebuttal Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498513)

The commdore 64 was originally designed as a video game
machine, even the production model came with a cartridge slot


Practically every 8-bit home computer of the era came with a cartridge slot. It was really nothing more than an easy and modular way to add storage (or memory-mapped I/O) to the system. Not a determining factor of console-iness.

The console market of the early 1980's basically killed itself, and the C64 was simply well positioned to attract the attention from consumers who had been stranded by the demise of the consoliers. I wouldn't attribute any special genius to Commodore because of it--especially considering the relative failure of the C128 and Amiga models that followed good ol' Compy 64.

Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498380)

The difference though is there is justification for using a keyboard on a XBox360 and PS3 - email, online chat etc. And since they have standard USB ports, it seems a bit churlish to suggest people shouldn't use the functionality if it improves their gameplay.

As for Linux on the PS3 or PSP - I think are far more viable than the PS2. As you said, you had to buy a pack for the PS2 but neither is necessary for a PS3 or PSP. The PS3 has a harddrive and networking already so just plugin in any store bought keyboard & mouse and you're set. The PSP has a memory stick slot which can act as storage and networking support too. Both could be useful for something.

Besides, isn't the PS3 meant to be installed Linux anyway? I seem to recall that being mentioned somewhere. It might be a very neat system if it was, though it remains to be seen how useful it would be.

One important difference. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498577)

The internet.

Really? (1)

Frenchman113 (893369) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498171)

Then what does the PS3 offer that makes me want to replace my PC? A decent end computer will have way more useful software, better games, and is still more upgradable. Besides, I think this is just an excuse they're making up to cover for all the bad publicity they're getting from the $600 price tag.

Re:Really? (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498292)

Then what does the PS3 offer that makes me want to replace my PC?
My laptop is a computer, and offers nothing that makes me want to replace my desktop PC. I don't see why an entertainment-focussed computer system that I would attach to my TV should make me want to replace either my desktop or laptop PC, either, any more than a palmtop should make me want to replace my other PCs.

Welcome to games.slashdot.org (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498175)

Welcome to games.slashdot.org, where each day Zonk tenderly picks out the most embarrassing thing a Sony executive has said in the previous day, and the most positive piece of news about the XBox 360 he can find, and publishes them both.

For example in the last 24 hours we have learned that Microsoft employees are very excited about the new Shadowrun game; and that the PS3 is a "computer" rather than a "video game system", as opposed to the XBox 360, which isn't a computer at all.

for serious (5, Funny)

bunions (970377) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498351)

about 1 in 5 of these articles turn out to be anything more than misquotes, press releases out of context, rumors or just simple errors.

We get it, we get it already: Sony = Evil, the console is awful and if you buy it the CEO of Sony will come to your house and shit on your children. Enough already.

Re:for serious (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498555)

You know, every few years when it's "new console time" it's pretty much the same pattern -- there's not really any new information 99% of the time, so every little tidbit gets spun this way and that in order to make some group of fanboys collectively shit.

This goes on for a couple years, the systems get released, everyone is happy, and then the cycle starts again.

One would like to believe that everyone involved in this is 14 years old and buying videogames with allowance from mom, but sadly, it's become legitimate conduct for adults.

They're technically all computers (4, Insightful)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498179)

Of course they're computers. Whether or not you can use them easily in a general purpose manner is another issue entirely. EG, my Linksys WRT54GL is a computer and can easily be used as a general purpose device by uploading 3rd party firmware such as OpenWRT. So can my Dreamcast. On the other hand, I can't do the same with my XBox 360 (at least until someone figures out how to run unsigned code). But they're all computers nonetheless.

Re:They're technically all computers (1)

mnmn (145599) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498276)

Theres a difference. A computer is quite general. A console is very specialized.

Take a console. Or router. Or PDA. And run an OS that is quite manageable by the user.
Add modular programs that you can add and run from the device, all kinds of programs. And you have what is commonly known as a 'computer'.

Now take a PC. Either run a special compilation of QNX or strip down Windows or Linux so only one app is run, or one group of preset apps. Take away the keyboard/mouse if theyre not used. Youve got a terminal/kiosk/console/router/server/PBX. I know where your definition of a computer comes from, but the general use refers to a general and flexible computer.

Ours is better! We swear! (5, Insightful)

PSXer (854386) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498180)

Forgetting for the moment that all videogame consoles are computers...

What else could be upgraded besides the hard drive? I really doubt you'll be able to swap in a new CPU or GPU. Maybe RAM like you could upgrade on the N64. (though I have my doubts) Or, does he mean that new PS3s will be more powerful than the old ones and that the old ones won't be upgradable?

What would be the point of continuing to call it a PS3 then? People who bought a PS3 for $600 in 2006 would be homicidal if a "PS3" game was released a couple years down the line that couldn't be played (or maybe it could only be played at a low resolution/framerate) on their old PS3. People expect a game for a console to just work in that console.

Also, wasn't the PS2's official title "computer entertainment system"? Look how that worked out.

Re:Ours is better! We swear! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498542)

Also, wasn't the PS2's official title "computer entertainment system"? Look how that worked out.

You mean, how it abolished the competitors, and became one of the most widely used systems in console history, surpassed only by the playstation 1? I can see how that didn't work out AT ALL :)

That's unfortunate. (1)

robyannetta (820243) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498185)

When I buy a Playstation, I expect it to be a console, not a full blown PC.

I play WoW on my PC.

Sony, can you offer a 'console' version of the PS3 that we can get cheaper?

Whoa there (2, Insightful)

sehryan (412731) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498195)

"'I think it's okay to release a [extended PS3] configuration every year'. It's clear from the comments that Sony is indicating that it will be possible to upgrade hard drives and perhaps even other components easily."

Please note that nowhere does it state that the CONSUMER will be able to upgrade hard drives or other components easily. In fact, what they are implying is that they will release a different "upgraded-from-core" model every year. I would assume that one would have to buy the entire thing to get any upgraded components. After all, I don't think Joe Sixpack is going to be comfortable swapping out a hard drive on a PS3 any more than on a "real" computer.

Yet another bit of fraud from Sony (-1, Troll)

The_Real_Quaid (892126) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498199)

This is nothing more than FRAUD in order to dodge taxes. Sony tried this same crap with PS2. [kotaku.com]

The "computer" aspects of PS3 will be just as useless as the PS2 Linux kit. Don't be suckered into thinking that Linux on PS3 is going to be any use. It only has 256MB of system RAM. What the hell are you going to do with 256MB on a "computer"??

256 MB (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498309)

The "computer" aspects of PS3 will be just as useless as the PS2 Linux kit. Don't be suckered into thinking that Linux on PS3 is going to be any use. It only has 256MB of system RAM. What the hell are you going to do with 256MB on a "computer"??

You might want to ask Zaurus owners that same question, since they make do with far tighter constraints. There's plenty you can do with that much space, especially considering you get swap as well.

Re:Yet another bit of fraud from Sony (1)

despisethesun (880261) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498327)

I manage to do lots of things with the 256MB of RAM in my computer. More is always nice but I really haven't run into a problem yet.

Re:Yet another bit of fraud from Sony (1)

martinultima (832468) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498526)

Well, I don't know about you, but I find that I have no problems with my Pentium-233 laptop with 96MB RAM and a 4GB hard disk – and it's running the latest available software. That is, the latest available Linux software. Not trying to promote the virtues of one OS over the other, I'm just pointing out that "low-end" for one system is overkill for another – kind of like one man's trash is another man's treasure. And most of my other machines have 256MB. I just don't need very much more than that.

Re:Yet another bit of fraud from Sony (1)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498480)

The "computer" aspects of PS3 will be just as useless as the PS2 Linux kit. Don't be suckered into thinking that Linux on PS3 is going to be any use. It only has 256MB of system RAM. What the hell are you going to do with 256MB on a "computer"??

Oh, I don't know...run full KDE 3.5.2 desktops and such on Mandriva 2006 linux, FreeBSD 6.0, OpenSolaris 5.11 maybe? That's what my computer I'm posting on does with a P4 2.0 gHz, 256mb RAM, D845EBG2 motherboard, and an old Nvidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 64mb GPU.

Plus, it is *not* sluggish, or take ages to open apps, or limit me (that I've noticed) in the number of apps I have open. I also have menu, taskbar, and window titlebar translucencies enabled without any apparent degradation in speed. I suppose if I *tried* to overload it I could, but I use it normally without problems.

I'm not defending Sony. I will not buy any more Sony products after the used PS2 I picked up a couple years ago for $20. I don't buy new games for it either..Gamefly meets my needs admirably and cheaply, along with used game stores.

However, implying you cannot do useful things like being a full-featured home desktop with a computer with "only" 256mb RAM is incorrect.

Cheers!

Strat

stupid. stupid, stupid... (2, Insightful)

egomaniac (105476) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498208)

There is no way that plan will pan out. There's a reason that people choose consoles over computers: they are a known, stable hardware platform which is easy for developers to target, and thus every game works reliably. The second you start allowing significantly different versions of the consoles to exist, you run into compatibility issues, users being unclear which version of the console a given game will work on, developers being unwilling to take advantage of the hardware in order to avoid alienating users, and a host of other issues.

Limited, carefully-controlled upgrades can succeed (e.g. memory expansion for N64), but so far has only worked when distributed as a pack-in in a popular game. Significant console upgrades (e.g. every upgrade ever released for the Genesis) have all failed in the marketplace, for the reasons described above.

Sony owned the market. The PS3 was a guaranteed success. A license to print money. And now they seem fixated on painting a target on their feet, merrily humming away, completely ignoring what their potential customers actually want. Nintendo could easily leverage this into a return to first place in the market, if they play their cards right.

Right... (1)

TooMuchEspressoGuy (763203) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498210)

(Obligatory mention of "Toy Story-quality renders in realtime" claim for the PS2 here)

Missing the point (4, Insightful)

Futaba-chan (541818) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498222)

Since PS3 is a computer, there are no models but configurations

Um, I thought the whole point of a console was to give everyone the same configuration so that developers can target a single stable platform without having to worry about configuration issues....

So, if it's a "computer", does that mean that they'll let me in to hack to my hearts content without any sort of encryption key BS? Or are they still going to try to lock me out of my own "computer"?

Tax: Nothing Else (5, Interesting)

Talez (468021) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498237)

The only reason he's claiming its a computer is so it can skip some import duty in the UK and EC.

They tried the same stunt with the Playstation 2 [theregister.co.uk] .

Re:Tax: Nothing Else (1)

GameEngineer (961102) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498472)

Shhh...let the Dreamcast and Xbox fanboys go nuts.

Just sit back and enjoy the show. It was priceless six years ago when Sony used the same label for European tax reasons...

Okay...So what? (3, Informative)

Traiklin (901982) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498239)

So now they are saying it's a Computer to explain the price. Ok I can understand that.

What I still can't understand is why they refuse to talk about the OS in it. if they plan for it to be a "Computer" then how are they going to pull it off with a closed OS?

I've only heard them say "It will come preinstalled with Linux!" well big woop there, I could sell PC's preinstalled with linux, doesn't mean people will want to buy it if they find out that Linux is completly locked down with me owning the master account and not telling them what it is so they can't install, update or view hardly anything. Oh and I could access their computer at any point in time I would like when they are connected to the internet.
,br> so far the only thing's I know about the OS are, It's Linux.
Not exactly something that makes me want to rush out and buy this "Computer", especially when doing a search for "Linux OS" returns about 4,560,000 results, and having tried to use linux on 5 seperate occasians I know there are atleast 10 different versions of a "Linux OS" with god knows how many more.

So far they have said it will be Linux and then showed off THEIR web browser (which makes me wonder if it will be possible to even install an alternate browser on this Linux) yet that is all.

So we are basically paying $600 (cause the $500 model is pointless) for a locked down, nonuseable "computer" with a Blu-Ray drive. wow, just makes me all giddy to get one (and I used to be someone who would be waiting in line (and i HATE waiting in lines) to get this thing, till they announced $600 as the price and hardly anything else about it after that).

Why is the $500 model pointless? (3, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498457)

As has been noted countless times, you can do 1080p over component cables. There are TV's out today (for as low as $1700!) that do so. You'll be able to buy Blu-Ray movies and play them at 1080i at least until 2012.

Given all that, why must you spend $100 more when the only thing you gain is an unwelcome does of DRM with HDMI?

Re:Why is the $500 model pointless? (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498502)

You'll be able to buy Blu-Ray movies and play them at 1080i at least until 2012.

Please post the link that has the Blu-Ray group's written binding agreement that they will not use the Image Constraint Token.

Please research (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498545)

Please post the link to any Blu-Ray movie to be sold that makes use of the ICT.

After that write a three page paper on exactly why when a company is trying to grow market share you would sell a format that could not be used by 90% of the market you are aiming at (HDMI being a recent inclusion in the HDTV market).

Why is it so hard to believe that a company would do something that actually makes them more money? I thought the tagline was that all companies were greedy? Then why are you saying they'll not act like it?

The ICT flag was a great laugh for the media execs to come up with, but when that met the reality of sales it was discarded as common sense and profit would dictate.

Re:Please research (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498575)

Please post the link to any Blu-Ray movie to be sold that makes use of the ICT.

Please post link of any Blu-Ray movie sold.

What!? (2, Funny)

OK PC (857190) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498247)

They downgraded it! I thought it was meant to be a supercomputer...

That's why it's OK to buy the $500 model... (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498265)

...since just about anything the more expensive model offers could just be added later (like media readers).

However the balance that is missing is to note that Sony has also been smart enough to ship all models of a console with everything it needs to be a good gaming rig. If you took thier comments at face value you'd expect them to ship each PS3 with no HD and no Blu-Ray drive (or any other kind of drive) at all, and just let you buy what they liked.

They are just saying that if you want to take that further, you'll be able to add a media reader or keyboard/mouse (for example). That's good as far as I'm concerned as it might make FPS's on a console much more tolerable. I know the PS2 and XBox kind of supported that, but it didn't seem like a lot of games picked up on that support.

They may have a point, if you can browse the web and see emails and print things, might that not be enough of a computer for many people? WebTV and the like never caught on but with the higher resolution and generally larger screens HDTV's offer perhaps it has more of a chance now. And if that desktop is Linux - well, that's kind of cool.

Re:That's why it's OK to buy the $500 model... (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498331)

They may have a point, if you can browse the web and see emails and print things, might that not be enough of a computer for many people?
Especially with the emergence of online versions of many traditional desktop apps, if its got a good browser, that could well be enough of a computer (particularly, enough of a second or third computer in the house) for many people.
WebTV and the like never caught on but with the higher resolution and generally larger screens HDTV's offer perhaps it has more of a chance now.
Plus, you know, the PS3 has other functions besides being a set-top web browser box. Like playing movies. And, you know, its a game console, too.

A game console! (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498568)

Especially with the emergence of online versions of many traditional desktop apps, if its got a good browser, that could well be enough of a computer (particularly, enough of a second or third computer in the house) for many people.

That's a really good point and is something that's very different now - if it can run Google Calc and Google Mail and Google Calendar and (eventually) Google Word... WebTV was very limited in functionality, basically email and very poor browsing.

Plus, you know, the PS3 has other functions besides being a set-top web browser box. Like playing movies. And, you know, its a game console, too.

A game console! I hadn't heard! :-)

Re:That's why it's OK to buy the $500 model... (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498541)

However the balance that is missing is to note that Sony has also been smart enough to ship all models of a console with everything it needs to be a good gaming rig.

Seriously, do you forget what happens when Sony makes a promise? Sony wanted to make the HDD a required upgrade to the PS2. How did that turn out? Console history is littered with failed required peripherals.

Different dog, same tricks (4, Informative)

WankersRevenge (452399) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498273)

From Sony's past behavior with the PS2, it seems to me that the computer classification is not targeted at the end user, but rather, the bill collectors.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1003076.stm [bbc.co.uk]

it's "basically" a computer (1)

MrSquirrel (976630) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498279)

So, in other words... you can look at porn on it?

Re:it's "basically" a computer (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498338)

So, in other words... you can look at porn on it?

Well, in Japan that's about 60 percent of the manga market, and hentai pr0n is a major market share on the Net there.

So, basically, given the Japanese and Asian market, the market reality is that half of the people who buy the higher-capacity Blu-Ray equipped PS3 will be buying it to ... um ... view pr0n. They really care about HDTV high-quality video and image capacity ...

So, yes, you are correct. But we're not supposed to admit such things.

Remember kids... (1)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498288)

This is what illegal drugs will do to you. Just say no!

Re:Remember kids... (2, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498602)

Here's a better motto.

"Winners don't use rootkits."
Oh, wait...

Let me get this right... (1)

IgLou (732042) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498297)

So the PS3 isn't an overpriced console anymore it's just a cheap(-ish)computer. I'm implying the cheap bit because they seem to be justifying the cost now by saying it's a computer (actually they imply it's far more than a computer but anyways) and for that price a computer is a deal.

Am I the only one that gets troubled with a statement like this?
We'll want to upgrade the HDD size very soon

Pardon me but if you try to sell me a computer and told me that I'll want to upgrade any piece of it soon, I would be inclined to tell you you're crazy and buy a computer that doesn't needs an immediate upgrade. But then again I could be the one that's crazy. I also forsee a version problem of sorts. With multiple versions of the PS3 due to configuration it will only be a matter of time before something meant to work with the PS3 (software or hardware) will turn up an incompatibility with one of these configurations. PC's have that problem after all and that's what drives some of us to get software updates. I wonder how that would pan out on a PS3??

Oh and a last thing, I'll bet that these "upgrades" are not going to be cheap...

Re:Let me get this right... (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498490)

Pardon me but if you try to sell me a computer and told me that I'll want to upgrade any piece of it soon, I would be inclined to tell you you're crazy and buy a computer that doesn't needs an immediate upgrade.
Um, they didn't say you (the purchaser) would want to upgrade it, they said they (Sony) would want to. Or, in other words, that purchasers looking as far down the line as you are today, but doing so (say) two years from now, will want more hard drive than you will today.

The reason why I switched... (1)

Sinnix (898301) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498304)

... to gaming on consoles in the first place was because I wouldn't have to upgrade every year! And now they want to switch it back? No thanks!

No PS4 just an upgrade? (1)

zxcvbgfdsa8 (979964) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498312)

I know Sony has mentioned that they wanted the PS3 to have a longer shelf life but I don't see that happening unless the PS3 is a whole lot more powerfull that the 360. So my question is does this mean Sony wont make a PS4 and they'll just sell you new chips? I can't imagine any normal person wanting to swap in and out processors but I also can't imagine people just wanting to upgrade hard drives or ram. I suppose if it had TiVo function maybe one might a bigger hard drive.

The CEO of Sony is not a techie (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498314)

Seriously, they even brought in a non-tech Scot. We have to remember that Sony's major profits come from Finance and Insurance - yes, you heard that right - and he's trying to sell you on Blu-Ray for films/movies, music, and games. From that perspective (non-tech), the PS3 is basically a computer with a Blu-Ray drive, as that's where his profits lie - in getting the market to reward Sony with market dominance over competing standards so that they get license fees for every movie, music, or game disc you buy.

Don't believe me? Check out Fortune [fortune.com] magazine for an in-depth interview of the two head honchos at Sony. I'm basing part of this on the print edition of the Wall Street Journal as well.

So, it's all bullshit? (1)

TadZimas (921646) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498358)

Was it yesterday that there was a post on slashdot about how the PS3 would be better than the X-box360 because "It would last longer because you wouldn't have to buy a bunch of expansions like a HD-DVD player"?
Sorry, it was the day before yesterday. Sorry.
http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/06/07/2041213.s html [slashdot.org]
So now, after claiming "Your PS3 will last, like forever, like as long as you want", they counter with "unless you want it to be better... And, probably, games a couple years down the line will require improved capabilities, so instead of that thing we said yesterday, not that thing we said yesterday. LOL! ^_^ Fewled juu!"

Wow, I wasn't considering buying a PS3 before I read this article, but now I'm considering... super not buying a PS3.

Hey Kid! (5, Funny)

OzPhIsH (560038) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498360)

I'm a Computer!!

Re:Hey Kid! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498402)

Stop all the downloadin'!

If it's a computer, can I use KB/mouse for FPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498368)

I assume it is only a computer as long as you don't actually try to play games better, using a keyboard and mouse? For the love of god, when do I get to play games on a console where I can shoot straight?

Actually, if you count the Nintendo DS as a console, Metroid Prime has excellent controls, but so far it is the only console FPS that is actually playable. I don't care what the nubbin' tweakin' fanboys say.

Why does everyone hate ps3? (0, Flamebait)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498377)

I don't understand why everyone hates the ps3 so much, if you dont want to spend the $600, then don't. But your petty whining about sony's supposed marketing mistakes isn't going to convince me not to shell out for something that could easily be considered a supercomputer. Why am I dishing out all that cash? Because I want to run linux on it, I want to learn the new arch. I want to utilize its processing power. yeah yeah ps2 ran linux, but it also didnt come with it preinstalled out of the box on a harddrive. Does no one see the potential that the cell processor has? Or is everyone still pissed off about the DRM cd's and the virus problem that caused months back. Hell I run linux, it didn't effect me, so I could care less. Ever since day 1 I've been telling everyone that I was going to buy a ps3 to use it as a pc, this only substantiates my claims.

$500 (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498506)

Just a quick correction, The base PS3 is $500, not $600.

The base PS3 can use component cables to deliver games at 1080P and movies to at least 1080i (1080p movies may be restricted not by ICT but by fundamental AACS restrictions).

I too find it odd that so many people seem so pissed off at Sony the game company when it was Sony the media company that gave us the whole root-kit fiasco, which is I think what really turned so many against Sony.

$600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498535)

I don't understand why everyone hates the ps3 so much,

Because it's $600.

if you dont want to spend the $600, then don't.

Hm. I don't think this is what Sony is trying to say. "Don't buy our product!" is not a marketing push one often finds coming from electronics companies.

Neato! I have a PS3! (1)

aarmenaa (712174) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498401)

Yes, it's a computer in the sense that many electronic devices are computers. But using it as a generic, programmable tool may be less than intuitive. Frankly, Sony's destroying the one benefit a console ever had: the hardware was standardized. You didn't need to run though installs, and just about anyone could put in a game in play it with absolutely no issues. How long until a game is released that has a "glitch" and doesn't work with some of the older generation PS3s? Patches, moving hardware targets, and obsolete a few years down the road? Sounds like a system I just bought, and it is a computer, in the sense that I usually think of a computer. It cost me less than a PS3 too.

And yes, I know there were different versions of the PS2, something like 15 of the damn things. As far as I know, 14 of those reworked the hardware to stop you from being able to execute your own arbitrary code. Number 15 was the "slim" model. I don't think any of them changed anything fundamental about the system itself (clock speeds, drive sizes, etc).

Oddly enough, I just picked up a PS2 out of the trash about a month back. It was in pretty bad condition, but after a few hours working on it, it kinda works. I figured I'd buy a game or two for it. A look at the selection surprised me. I'd already played everything I was intrested in on my PC, or could buy it cheaper on my PC. One could argue that with the PS2 version, it's guaranteed to work, I just pop it in and play. For someone like me that's not much of a selling point, but for my less technically inclined family, it's probably great. So, what's the benefit of a PS3?

Apparently ps3 is a computer, next up... (1)

nule.org (591224) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498453)

sun apparently hot, water apparently wet. Seriously, by which metric would it not be considered to be a computer?

Re:Apparently ps3 is a computer, next up... (1)

wildtech (119936) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498573)

Does it have a cpu, memory, storage device, display, input device?

My PC runs games and my xbox plays movies... Which is the Game machine?

I can hear it now (1)

PagosaSam (884523) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498456)

I can hear it now, BUT MOM!!! -- I'm not playing games, I'm working on the computer!

Do they want to fail? (4, Insightful)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498468)

It didn't work with the 32X or the Sega CD. It didn't work with the N64 RAM upgrade or the 64DD. It sure as hell didn't work with the PS2 HDD. I have no idea why Sony thinks it can pull this upgrade crap off.

It's getting so bad that the more times Kutaragi shoots off his mouth, the more I think that he is purposely sabotaging the PS3 out of anger that he was not named CEO. I thought Nintendo requiring a $50 (?) upgrade to their $200 N64 was crazy. This is just ridiculous.

Come on, Ken. You are selling this idea to people who pay some goon at Best Buy to install their new sound card.

Watch, in two years $600 will get you a PS3 with BD-ROM with a decent speed, a HD big enough to actually give you some advantage loading your games, and enough RAM to actually play the new games.

There is absolutely no reason to buy a PS3 before Sony makes their plans perfectly clear in this regard. Fuzzy quotes about what you might need in the future to make your $600 paperweight playable again is an insult to any potential customers.

This is to keep up with competition... (2, Insightful)

Bryansix (761547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498494)

Not to leapfrog over it. If you take a serious look at the Xbox 360 you will see some of the same upgradability built in. Plus since most of it's software is really an internet service, the interface can be upgraded seamlessly on the fly. Sony has to create something similar or face being marginalized.

While I agree with most people here that the PS3 will be overpriced, I want all that functionality to be built in. I want my game console to also play DVD's, MP3 from my computer, record TV, output digital Audio in every format known to man (DTS 7.1 anybody?), download new expansions to existing games through the Internet, etc. Come one people. Why would you not want this stuff? Even if you use only part of the functionality of the system, it still adds to the value if you use that part. Plus Microsoft screwed people by offering reletively small hard drives with the 360 when it shipped. I hope that Sony will offer 300GB upgrades because frankly, I could use them.

And lastly dammit, I want a keyboard! It's freakin' hard typing in chat with a controller! Just allow the device to use a wireless standard keyboard or a USB one like the PS2 does already.

What it'll evolve into... (1)

gakon5 (889774) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498559)

Alright, so we're basically seeing a kinda N64 thing going on here.. kind of. Basically, in the future, some games on the PS3 will be "expansion required or something" (like how they had Expansion Pak N64 games). Now is where I see Sony shooting themselves in the foot... again.

Six hundred is already a lot of money, at least when we're talking consoles. But it's not gonna stop there. Alright, so most people will have to hold off on the PS3, accounting for its outrageous price. Right?

Then it escallates. Sony releases a PS3 expansion Nov. of 2007 (in who knows what form). Some games, taking advantage of new hardware, will become "expansion only." So, even if the price _is_ dropped at _all_ before the new expansion comes out, the new price of this hardware is tacked on.

And we can all guess what the price range may be, considering Sony's past in the industry.

So what I'm saying is, extra things will just make more price problems. Especially if some of the "upgraded" games are those killer app, Halo-kinda things. The game that you're a loser for not having. The game that's hyped at three E3s before its launch and gets like a 9.5 on Gamespot.

But, of course, this is all assuming they're going to actually be upgrading core components of the machine. But hey, with this stupid computer analogy tacked on, it's seems that way. It's not like they're going to just pull out new hard drives every year... 8GB was enough on the Xbox.

Oh, and if people are going to be screwing around _inside_ the machine, boy it better be easy. I mean Power Mac G5 easy... not like a beige boxed Win 3.1 machine. Or everyone will start breaking their expensive console/computer/Linux/blah.

Dugg several days ago (1)

Format_see (979833) | more than 8 years ago | (#15498595)

Nice try Zonk

Some countries impose a tax on games consoles (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15498619)

If the PS3 is declared a computer then it does not attract this tax in the UK for example. For this very reason Sony shipped the PS2 with a very simple programming language, thereby allowing them to call it a programmable computer (with some educational value) and qualifying for an import taqx break.
Nick.
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