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Lower Saxony KDE Migration

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the upper-saxony-jealous dept.

119

An anonymous reader writes "ZDNet reports on a recent German Linux migration by the tax authority in Lower Saxony which has made the decision to migrate an impressive 12,000 desktops to SuSE Linux using KDE. The project, which is now in process converting 300 desktops daily, moves systems from Solaris x86 version 8, which the organisation has been running since 2002. The migrations are reported as going well thus far. KDE's Kiosk desktop customisation, source code access and licensing costs were cited as key reasons for the decision. Congratulations to all involved, and best of luck going forward with this effort!"

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Hmmm (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510477)

It's pretty easy to migrate from Solaris.

If we start hearing about big Win32 -> *nix migrations, THEN maybe we can say kill -9 [stanford.edu] to billy boy...

But more importantly, it's telling that we're not hearing about good, honest, honorable American migrations. We know all about Germans [shelleytherepublican.com] and the so-called "sport" [shelleytherepublican.com] they are hosting for the so-called "world"... and in any case, we know Linux isn't as reliable as Windows [shelleytherepublican.com] yet...

Re:Hmmm (3, Insightful)

mccalli (323026) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510504)

It's pretty easy to migrate from Solaris.

This one is more interesting than most however. Normally you here about that on the server side. It's interesting that the organisation is choosing to retain Unix-based desktops rather than go Win32. Interesting also that they've not moved to Solaris 10.

Cheers, Ian

Re:Hmmm (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510514)

Normally you here about that on the server side

Or even hear about it...

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Hmmm (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511889)

Please don't call Linux "UNIX". It's really not, in a number of important software ways but especially in legally binding trademark ways.

But my experience with Solaris, for many years, is that to make it usable you have to basically replace a lot of core tools with the much more powerful and better built ones from the FSF, many of which are core to Linux OS deployments. Emacs, sendmail, more, make, bash, gcc, and tar, all are much better deployed from recent FSF releases or maybe www.sunfreeware.com rebundlings, rather than using the utilities built into Solaris.

And that unspeakable piece of buggy and undocumented cruft known as dpkg should have died years ago: RPM is a very solid way to replace it, which makes SuSE and RedHat good choices for company wide deployments.

Re:Hmmm (1)

muuh-gnu (894733) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512029)

> Please don't call Linux "UNIX".

Or what? Will you tell my mother? Like Richard does every time I forgot the "GNU/"?

> It's really not, in a number of important software ways

But it is still similar enough to be called UNIXy.

> but especially in legally binding trademark ways.

Oh, oh, oh, I think misusing a holy commercial trademark in a discussion forum will not be giving me sleepless nights, actually.

Re:Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15512661)

> Please don't call Linux "UNIX".

Or what? Will you tell my mother? Like Richard does every time I forgot the "GNU/"?

To some, the issue is one of correctness, though really only pedants care about it these days (and I admit to being one in this case). It's a bit like saying a BMW is similar enough to a Mercedes to be called one, but the reality is a BMW isn't a Mercedes. There are substantial differences in heritage and design, no matter how similar the two marques are in comparison to, say, a Fiat or an Opel.

The issue of GNU/Linux isn't one of correctness, since Linux is the kernel, and GNU is the set of userland tools. As such, you can call it 'Linux' (using the normal convention of referring to the system by the kernel name), 'GNU' (using a strange convention of referring to the system by its userland tools) or 'GNU/Linux' if you want to combine the two. I prefer simply 'Linux', since it's correct, easier to say/write and is what most people say.

Troll? Nah. +1 Funny (1)

Unski (821437) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510708)

-1 Troll seems harsh, almost as if some crackpipe-wielding mod was too quick to judge. The 'Linux isn't as reliable as Windows' link could've come from the Paul Thurrot Supersite and should definitely provide light relief to Linux zealots of whatever denomination. I laughed anyway and I don't particularly care for Linux that much.

I was sure they'd use Gnome... (5, Funny)

demongeek (977698) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510482)

Isn't it the naming convention that all programs starting with a G are Gnome based? Well, it ain't Kermany...

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (1, Flamebait)

0racle (667029) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510507)

Na those Germans are smart. They're obviously going to use the best DE for Linux.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510534)

They're obviously going to use the best DE for Linux.

You omitted K before DE. May I ask why? Is it because K stands for Krap?

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510543)

You omitted K before DE. May I ask why? Is it because K stands for Krap?
.de is the TLD for Germany, it stands for "Deutschland" which is how Germans call their country.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (1)

Flimzy (657419) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510614)

Because KDE is a DE, not a KDE.

DE stands for Desktop Environment. A category of products that both KDE and Gnome fit into.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510679)

Someone needs to do a sense of humour upgrade.
I was just trolling, no, I was just expressing my opinion. Oh, wait...

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510806)

DE = Detsuchland = Germany.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510829)

KDE stands for das Krautdesktopenvironment.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (2, Interesting)

MarkByers (770551) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510536)

From TFA:

'the development of KDE was part funded by the German government [zdnet.co.uk] .'

That might have had something to do with it too.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (1)

SpectreHiro (961765) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510836)

Leave it to the Germans to spell CDE with a K... and bloody near everything else for that matter. ;)

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15511162)


Leave it to the Germans to spell CDE with a K...
and bloody near everything else for that matter. ;)


Ve'll do as ordered, SpektreHiro.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (1)

Zarniwoot (979457) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510799)

I hate to be someone who clutter a lame joke with facts, but: Germany in german is "Deutschland" and KDE was originally a german project.

Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511166)

Citing facts on Slashdot? You must be new here. :-)

just a reminder (0, Redundant)

p80 (771195) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510523)

before you start picking at the K naming thing, remember that Apple does the same with the "i", think iPod, iCal, iBook and Microsoft with well "Microsoft" word, excel etc and of course Gnome with the "G". So KDE is not alone here plus if you think about it, K is kinda Kool :P

Re:just a reminder (0, Offtopic)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510541)

Nice preemptive strike. I almost want to troll you just to make your post worthwhile.

Re:just a reminder (1, Informative)

joe 155 (937621) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510562)

I noticed the K thing with KDE when I used SUSE and SLAX but I've not really noticed a "G" thing with Gnome... I'm strugling to think of anything really that I use that has the "G" thing... (well, there is Same GNOME... but thats not got G as a prefix)

Re:just a reminder (2, Informative)

p80 (771195) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510599)

Gaim, IM Beagle, content indexer and search tool Galeon, Web Browser GARNOME, build utility for the GNOME Desktop GB, GNOME Basic GConf, GNOME Configuration Daemon GDM, GNOME Display Manager gdome2, GNOME DOM Engine Getix, XML editor gedit, Text Editor GNOME Fax, Faxing Software Gimp, Graphics package Glade, Interface Builder gnocl, Tcl binding GNOME DB, Generic database Interface GNOME Games, fun for your desktop GNOME-GCJ, Java bindings GNOME Useability Project GNOME Meeting, Video conferencing Software GNOME Network, Client Network-oriented Tools Gnome Python, Python Bindings GNOME Print, GNOME printing library GNOME System Tools, System Configuration GNOME Power Manager, System Configuration GNOME VFS, Filesystem Abstraction library GNU, GNU for which GNOME is sub-project Gnucash, Personal Finance Manager Gnumeric, Spreadsheet GOB, GNOME Object Builder Gossip, GNOME Jabber chat client Guppi, Charting application GStreamer, Multimedia Architecture GTK+, Graphical Toolkit Library GTK-Doc, API documentation tool gtkmm, C++ bindings GtkHTML 2, HTML rendering library GtkPerl, Perl Bindings Gtranslator, translation file editor Guikachu, resource editor for PalmOS applications GtkMathView, widget for MathML rendering, editing, interaction Gwget, Download Manager

Re:just a reminder (1)

joe 155 (937621) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510609)

touche.

I guess because I only really use Oo, Firefox and the terminal I never really have a lot to do with that stuff. Also I hadn't noticed that the reason why it's called Gaim is because of the "G" thing... who says you can't learn things on /.

Re:just a reminder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510757)

I'm strugling to think of anything really that I use that has the "G" thing... (well, there is Same GNOME... but thats not got G as a prefix)

So you don't use Gimp, Grip, Ggv, GThumb, GTV, Gedit or Gphoto then? (To name a few)

Re:just a reminder (1)

/ASCII (86998) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511196)

Gimp is not a part of Gnome. Gimp actually predates Gnome. If you are going to mention all free projects starting with a 'G', you should mention 'GNU/Linux', 'GNU/Hurd', glibc, gzip and gcc.

Re:just a reminder (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510741)

plus if you think about it, K is kinda Kool

Kool is also "Bold, Smooth, and Fresh"?

Although KDE probably doesn't want to be linked with it.

http://www.kool.com/ [kool.com]

Re:just a reminder (1)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511011)

Konqi only started smoking because of peer pressure from "Bob" [subgenius.com] , and he can quite any time.

Re:just a reminder (1)

Sanat (702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511148)

Dan Quale... wow! is that really you!!

Re:just a reminder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15511258)

omfg you're so funny typing troll!

Linux on the desktop (0, Offtopic)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510531)

Ok it's cool that people are moving to Linux, but on the other hand its not a migration from windows or mac, so it is not exactly evidence that Linux is ready for the desktop yet either.

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

mikesd81 (518581) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510547)

But it's still a score 1 for the OS movement because they're going to Linux and not going from Solaris to Microsoft.

This is also good since the last few days we've seen some slightly negative press (translate FUD) about Linux.

Re:Linux on the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15512717)

This is also good since the last few days we've seen some slightly negative press (translate FUD) about Linux

Thank you! This definition helps to clarify what the Linux advocates mean when they talk about 'FUD'. To many of us who are not Linux advocates (nor advocates of any OS), 'FUD' remains associated with its original meaning, as defined by Gene Amdahl: FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering [Amdahl] products.

I've often been slightly perplexed when Linux advocates have claimed some press article which is less than glowing towards Linux is 'FUD', when I'd limit the use of that particular term to attempts by Microsoft to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt in the minds of those considering using Linux products (eg claims that merely using Linux will force a firm to give up all of its own intellectual property, when this only really applies if the firm's code is mixed with GPL code, and distributed externally). If Linux advocates have redefined 'FUD' in the way you've described (as opposed to the original/correct definition), their usage of the term is not so strange.

Re:Linux on the desktop (3, Insightful)

delire (809063) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510588)

Do you really think, that with the formidable task of a 12000 PC migration, they considered the world of operating systems to be comprised of only Linux and Solaris? Futhermore while Windows is an obvious option, have you ever heard of OSX being used, on any comparable scale, by any international government?

Re:Linux on the desktop (2, Insightful)

delire (809063) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510592)

errm:
s/international government/government internationally/

OS X is not ready for the desktop (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510913)

I tried to install OS X recently on my Thinkpad and it failed to detect any of the hardware. OS X is simply not ready for the desktop.

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512449)

Yeah, let's buy 12000 of Apples overpriced, underpowered desktop solutions so everyone can run iphoto and comment on superior design, as opposed to, uh, getting work done using hardware we already have.

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

Vengeful weenie (627760) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510678)

Yeah that was my first thought as well. While it's great to see Linux getting desktop exposure, it's always a loss when a mature Unix needs to take the hit.

I bet that part of the reason is that Solaris x86 has Gnome support, but doesn't have tight KDE integration. [Note: I'm more of a Gnome user myself.] They also seem to be doing a one-to-one migration of the clients. I was wondering of they might be moving to a more "thin client" model. Anybody have more details?

Re:Linux on the desktop (2, Insightful)

cool_arrow (881921) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510701)

There is, however, evidence that these folks are migrating from one solid OS to another solid OS. Perhaps they're planning on getting some work done.

Re:Linux on the desktop (4, Interesting)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510703)

If they didn't move to Linux they would have moved to windows or Mac (well windows actually). So in a way that's 12000 desktops that MS lost.

And since when is deployment of 12000 desktops not evidence that linux is ready for the desktop? It's on the deskops right?

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510711)

No, because the users are already experianced with Solaris, which is not exactly a typical desktop OS, so these are not your typical desktop users. They may love Linux, but it doesn't tell us anything about the average desktop user who doesn't have a Solaris background.

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

Vengeful weenie (627760) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510739)

Actually, a lot of the setups are kiosk mode. So these are less than your typical desktop users. (Yikes!)

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510819)

I could see Linux taking over the kiosk (and ATM) world. There are no set-up issues, no compatibility issues, and users don't need to install software/games. Really only one program needs to run, and as long as the OS doesn't crash all is well.

Re:Linux on the desktop (3, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511808)

In most corporations users don't need to (actually are prevented from) installing software and games. They mostly run some office software, email, browser and some internally written app (usually in java). Linux is perfectly fine for that.

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512301)

There are no set-up issues, no compatibility issues, and users don't need to install software/games.


However, if they have to install software, it'll be much easier for them to do it using adept [mornfall.net] , rather than going to superdownloads or whatever is it that windows users do when they need new software. Oh, and please, don't say "duh, I just pop in the CD and windows does the rest" because that still doesn't answer where do you get the CD in the first place.


Windows won't be ready for the desktop until you have a repository with 18000 software packages ready for installation anywhere at once, like Ubuntu has.

Re:Lost desktops (1)

eltoyoboyo (750015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511348)

Sun lost 12000 desktops. That does not mean that "in a way" Microsoft lost them too. Apple did not lose them and neither did Red Hat. Obviously IBM and HP were closer than anyone to "losing" them with their competing UNIX RISC workstations. The availability of Xfree86 in the 1990s meant that Linux was ready for the desktop at any subsequent point to replace proprietary workstations and X terminals, particularly x86 based UNIX. A Linux desktop is cheaper than Windows and Hummingbird as an XTERM. Apple and MS had a big uphill battle in this scenario to gain enough ground to consider this "lost."

Re:Linux on the desktop (1)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510951)

I like how this got modded "offtopic". Classy.

Re:Linux on the desktop (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15511069)

Looks to me like 12000 data entry drones unix terminals are moving to linux. Doesn't say much for solaris and/or the taxmans original planning if they started the planning for the migration off of solaris after deploying it just two years earlier. Must be nice to be able to run a shop like that.

Lower Saxony, Linux migration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510540)

So are the Saxons going to do this rollout on Wheels of Steel?

This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (5, Funny)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510542)

"Freely accessible sources, no license costs as well as optimum support of current hardware."

I thought, I'd never live long enough to see the day someone will ever say this... Look away, it's just some dust in my eyes...

Re:This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (3, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510680)

"Freely accessible sources, no license costs as well as optimum support of current hardware."

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I realized that sentence could be read in two ways:

optimum support for the hardware we're currently using
optimum support for hardware in mainstream use

Since he's focused on his own project, I would say a conservative opinion is that they happen to have a well supported standard configuration. That's great but not really anything exceptional.

Re:This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (1)

muuh-gnu (894733) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512045)

> they happen to have a well supported standard configuration.
> That's great but not really anything exceptional.

It seems to work well enough for Apple.

speaking of KDE (0, Offtopic)

p80 (771195) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510607)

Slashdot new design doesn't work with konqueror and I heard with Safari either. What a shame for a news for nerd site. I hope they'll fix this.

Re:speaking of KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510632)

I haven't bothered with Linux for about a year, so I can't speak to Konqueror, but Slashdot seems to be fine in Safari for me.

Re:speaking of KDE (3, Interesting)

rRaminrodt (250095) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510649)

I'm using Konq right now and it looks ok. The only problem I see is on the section bar where the text becomes garbled. If I highlight the text the problem goes away until the page is reloaded.

There aren't any real usability problems with the new layout. At least none since they moved the article links. :-)

http://fs.nile.homelinux.net:8000/~john/goofed_up_ slashdot1.png [homelinux.net] shows the error.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510890)

The real problem is the horrible horrible font (Verdana, IIRC) that Slashdot asks for specifically now. I haven't been able to fix this through stylesheet overrides yet...

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512382)

The real problem is the horrible horrible font (Verdana, IIRC) that Slashdot asks for specifically now. I haven't been able to fix this through stylesheet overrides yet...

Changing homepage preferences [slashdot.org] to "Simple Design" gives me a decent serif font (Times on my setup); perhaps a bit small but I can bump it up in the browser. Some of the graphic elements are a bit off, but that's an acceptable tradeoff.

Verdana is actually an excellent sans screen font; but for body text a serif is much more pleasant, Georgia is about the best IMHO.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

bensch128 (563853) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512585)

Tahoma's is the shit for sans with Georgia coming up a distance second. Verdana doesn't even place.

Too bad it's only available from M$ :(

Ben

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512132)

I like most of KDE, but there are a few things that aren't up to scratch.
Konqueror. Just use Firefox.
That funny music player. XMMS, hands down.
Kopete. Haven't tried it for years, but when I last looked at it, anything was better.

The man hours that are wasted trying to re-invent the Konqueror wheel could be better put to use doing something else, and contributing little patches to Firefox to integrate it more into KDE.

Re:speaking of KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15512290)

The man hours that are wasted trying to re-invent the Konqueror wheel could be better put to use doing something else, and contributing little patches to Firefox to integrate it more into KDE.

sorry you feel that way... haven't gone back to firefox since konq got adblock... lighter, faster, and integrates well with the rest of the desktop.

Now what would be cool is a way to divorce the konq-KDE interface from the HTML rendering engine, giving users a choice between mozilla, safari, etc.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512473)

If you think that Konq is simply a web application, you're really missing out on the kioslaves.

I'd be lost without fish://

Go to KDE Help Center, Contents tab, Kioslaves. I'm sorry, but FF doesn't do that.

--
BMO

PS, Slashdot still sucks ass rendering in Konq. Vendors, Help, Stories, About and Services all jam themselves up in the left hand corner. Sometimes. Sometimes not. This never happened before the "Whole New Look". And no, it's not my KDE setup. Fresh install. Same thing under 3.5.2 and 3.5.3.

 

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

bensch128 (563853) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512656)

i agree with you 100%. fish is awesome

However, I use the best tool for the job. --> firefox for the http protocol.

It would have been nice if the QGeeko component was maintained and extended though. Being able to embed geeko into konqi would be a major win. (And emulating fiefox Extensions, too...)

Cheers,
Ben

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

Klivian (850755) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510669)

Hopefully Slashdot will. But until it get fixed, you can apply a workaround by disabling javascript for shlasdot. Just add .slashdot.org Reject as a domain-Specific setting for JavaScript in Konqueror.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

glens (6413) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511060)

Konqueror user here...

I wouldn't know about any problems with javascript; I never have it enabled as a general rule. The problem is the fonts. They're butt ugly and way too small (try opting for the simplest/plainest presentation and you'll see it's worse than you think it could possibly be). I've asked Rob to fix it and he said they would. They've got about half the stuff working okay again but the fonts are still shoddy. That and serving the style sheets (what is it, about 30K per page?) with a URL containing a '?' when they don't need to. That simple little character makes it so the css files can't be web-cached and it further suckifies being stuck behind a modem.

I'm really sorry they gave away a laptop or whatever it was for the new design. They should have just left well-enough alone.

Re:speaking of KDE (2)

jbssm (961115) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510693)

What are you talking about ? It works perfectly fine in my Safari browser since day one.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

Arghdee (813921) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510724)

What are you talking about ? It works perfectly fine in my Safari browser since day one.
Same here. Looks perfect in Safari to me.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510770)

Yup, Safari Sagoodie

Re:speaking of XP-x64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510736)

The new /. CSS on IE7b2-x64 is also slower than two snails making snoo snoo in the missionary position. IE6-x64 runs just fine here and elsewhere. I feel like a t-rex in the LaBrea tar pits running any firefox bit version (on Win or Ubuntu) too. I only recently installed XP-x64 after running various flavs of linux *exclusively* for the past 7 years (no window dual booting). I miss amarok and KDE, but this XP-x64 makes all linux flavs look like it's little bitch. I find myself slowly migrating back to windows after all these years because of it, and no linux distro can crank out an x64 desktop worth a flying paper sack of flaming shit. I hope it lands on Linus' doorstep.

When I finally find an XP-x64 amarok alternative, I think I'll finally make a pilgramage to Redmond and give 'ole Billy boy a big 'ole hug. Stupid amarok devs say they won't port to Windows. Well, check dis out foo's; I got Visual Studio C# wif SQL (all express versions for free) and will port my own. Put dat in yo pipes and smoke it biatches!

Re:speaking of XP-x64 (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510807)

no linux distro can crank out an x64 desktop worth a flying paper sack of flaming shit.

I'll bite. My Fedora Core 4 x86-64 box works absolutely perfectly for me, and identically to the FC4 i386 box that sits next to it.

Stupid amarok devs say they won't port to Windows.

More lies, surely? Mark Kretschmann, one of the Amarok leads, recently wrote [kde.org] :

As one of the results of our K3M multimedia meeting in the Netherlands, your favourite media player is now called "Amarok". [some reasons] 4) Amarok is intended to be a software for all desktops, not just KDE. The capital K suggests that it's a KDE only application. [emphasis added]

Also, I like the way you show your appreciation for their work on a media player you obviously like by calling them "stupid". I'm sure it would make them feel really good about sharing their work with you.

Re:speaking of XP-x64 (1)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510870)

4) Amarok is intended to be a software for all desktops, not just KDE.

He was speaking "all desktops" as in "kde, gnome, enlightenment", etc. IIRC there is no version in planning at all for WinToys

Amarok will be coming to Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15512539)

"He was speaking "all desktops" as in "kde, gnome, enlightenment", etc. IIRC there is no version in planning at all for WinToys"

.-.-.-.-.-

You're wrong, dude! Look here:

First Day KDE 4 Multimedia Meeting [kde.org] :"Max Howell talked about moving to amaroK 2 and the Windows port that will come with that."

Re:speaking of KDE (0, Offtopic)

Zx-man (759966) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510743)

Actually, it works perfectly with Safari.

And if you don't believe me, I've got screenshots [infostore.org] to confirm my words. :-P
P.S.: Sorry for the banner, it is a problem of free hosting.

Re:speaking of KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510781)

New slashdot theme works fine on Safari. I'm using it right now.

Re:speaking of KDE (0, Offtopic)

ABoerma (941672) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510809)

With Safari, the new design works fine for me.

Re:speaking of KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510946)

Really? Looks fine to me.
After reading your comment I switched over and flipped through Slashdot a bit, and It looks/works fine. What problems are you having?

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

DittoBox (978894) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510988)

I'm posting this from Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.9.3), and it renders perfectly. It's a bit slow though, safari always is.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

waferhead (557795) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511080)

Just also had to try it---

I seen no corruption or slowdown in Konq 3.4.2, on Mandriva 2006.
(Barton 2800+, 1G ram, 440Mx)

Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511404)

My browser dies totally when trying to view comments on slashdot, so I have to fire up firefox to check slashdot, sucks.

Re:Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512395)

Works fine in Opera 8.5. However, I changed my /. preference to "Simple Design" to ger a serif font instead of Verdana for body text.

Re:Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (1)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512752)

My browser dies totally when trying to view comments on slashdot, so I have to fire up firefox to check slashdot, sucks.
That's an Opera 9 bug triggered by the recent Slashdot change. Postings to opera.linux suggest you upgrade to recent daily build, and all will be well.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

level_headed_midwest (888889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511614)

Konqueror 3.5.3 on Gentoo 2006.0 AMD64 works fine except for the sidebar links.

Re:speaking of KDE (1)

A Life in Hell (6303) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512256)

Hrm, I'm using konq f9or my browser, and /. works fine for me! (v3.5.2). Works on my mac with safari, too, so I don't know what's going on for you :). Bah.

(actually, firefox is completly unusable in comparison on my laptop - not enough ram, le sigh. I remember complaining kde stuff was bloated as hell, back in the day. irony!)

from solaris... so what then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510616)

unix -> linux is not news, it happens all the time.
windows -> linux isn't really news either, but it's still nice to have more stuff in the "linux is ready for the desktop" column

circa 90's linux is ignored (2, Insightful)

RedHatChilliPeppers (980675) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510620)

back in the 90's, Linux is ignored and I became a laughing stock in University. Now who's laughing now? What we've been deprieved before is freedom, now that freedom is back.

Re:circa 90's linux is ignored (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510882)

There was a very good reason that Linux was ignored in the 90's. It Wasn't Ready.

cool but not that surprising (5, Informative)

p80 (771195) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510631)

For those that don't know about KDE, it was started by a German guy and most KDE users and devs live in Germany (though it's now popular in other countries too), also Suse was German and used KDE as its main desktop. So lots of people are pushing KDE there just like they did at Munich and now in Lower Saxony.
I will be surprised when some country in Asia or America that is not known for its KDE community decides to switch to KDE.
That being said, it's of course great that did it in Germany.

Re:cool but not that surprising (1)

drspliff (652992) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510723)

Ok, so apart from a lot of native-language support for the product there's one other thing you have to consider.

Out of the two X11 'desktops' out there, KDE and Gnome which one is not an absolute pain in the arse to deploy and lock down in an enterprise?

I'd have though KDE's Kiosk mode would be a big factor considering their moving from CDE, along with the fact that custom apps in QT are a breeze compared to GTK.

SuSE vs. x86 Sol (5, Interesting)

packetmon (977047) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510634)

While I haven't used SuSE since 1998 or so, its nice to see they're coming along. One thing I take note of is the mention of "licensing costs were cited as key reasons for the decision.". I think there are many here who will take a "it's free!" approach to that statement, and that is not necessarily the case. Sure there are tons of free programs available, but most are forgetting the SuSE/Novell issue where SuSE isn't entirely as free as say CentOS, Ubuntu, FreeBSD, etc., there are some minor caveats, OpenExchange, etc. As for replacing x86Sol, I've never taken x86Sol seriously. If you ask me it was unstable, riddled with hardware issues, and had more security issues then Solaris on a Sparc.

I'd thought of installing SuSE using OpenExchange because of the cost factor when I worked at a smaller company but I found I could do just as good using an alternative so I ended up installing CentOS webservers, proxy servers, Solaris 10 for mail and LDAP on a v280, and ended up configuring a nicely equipped intranet for under 5k. I wound up going open source for most tools, e.g. DotProject replaced MS Project server and saved about 4k. SugarCRM replaced SuradoCRM at about 8k. CentOS replaced MS Windows SMB 2003 for about another 4k. I saved the company a lot of money but ended up to my neck in work. Was pretty neat to get things going, and I had originally wanted to use SuSE before they started selling seats for OpenExchange. Its always nice though to see the distros moving up... Right now, I'm back into the telco/communications (VoIP arena to be exact) and I was lucky enough to be in a Linux shop with flexibility to use what we feel gets the job done right... Not what magazines and researchers often sponsored by MS point to as "the perfect solution"

Very strange... (5, Interesting)

aphaenogaster (884935) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510737)

I find it very odd that solaris 10 was not used instead (considering what life must be like for 12,000 solaris 8 users). Since they say old hardware is a primary concern, and since lisencing is both 'free' (in different ways), I have to believe the SUSE choice might be driven mostly by the old hardware. You need 512 mb ram to even install 10 x86 graphically.

I see a couple of things happening though...

1. KDE is not a stable desktop. Yes Yes stop turning red, I mean it is not stable like CDE is stable. This could lead to frustration among 12,000 users that were used to probably the most stable OS (sol 8 is a rock), using an insanely boring and stable desktop (CDE).

2. Now that these people will be able to do all the cool things you can do with a modern unix and KDE, the IT people are going to go crazy

and have to hire more people and work mucho overtime.

Re:Very strange... (1, Funny)

aphaenogaster (884935) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510746)

come to think of it, they may have even been using openwindows and dude, there is nothing more robust (and nearly useless) after the command line than that.

Re:Very strange... (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512118)

KDE is not a stable desktop.

Last time KDE crashed/messed up on me? Not in the last few years. Currently KDE 3.5.2 via Gentoo, and it's lovely.

KDE not stable? (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512356)

Dude, I think you should start considering the TCO on the crack you smoke. Cheapest isn't always the best.


And I speak as a former VAX/VMS user. I have managed to crash VMS with a bug in a callback function in a Motif application I wrote, but I have never found a way to crash KDE. And when I say "crash VMS" I mean crash the system in a way that nobody else could log in, they couldn't even get a login prompt in a VT-100 terminal.


OK, I know, you mentioned CDE, not VMS, but VAX/VMS was that other legendary "impossible to crash" system, yet it wasn't as stable as Linux/KDE is today.

It's all over (5, Interesting)

Optikschmoptik (971793) | more than 8 years ago | (#15510738)

Here at University of Goettingen, the majority of public terminals use KDE and SuSE, probably for the same reasons mentioned in the article. I didn't notice this until I visited my girlfriend at the library and noticed the computer, last seen running WinNT, was using linux. She's not at all into computers. She complains about me tinkering with SuSE on my laptop all the time. At the library we had an exchange something like this:

"Did you notice you've been using linux all this time?"

"no."

"Well, that's KDE running on SuSE. When did they switch?"

"I don't know. They switched what now? Who's Katie?"

I asked her colleagues in the English department if they knew when the switch took place. No one noticed it. SD loves to have debates about whether *nix is ready to replace windows for the everyday user. Ok, so maybe joe schmo or the proverbial English-major girlfriend (or boyfriend) wouldn't be able to install Ubuntu or SuSE, but if it's there, they can use it. There's a lot of money to be saved on public terminals for general use.

Re:It's all over (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15510821)

Ok, so maybe joe schmo or the proverbial English-major girlfriend (or boyfriend) wouldn't be able to install Ubuntu or SuSE, but if it's there, they can use it. There's a lot of money to be saved on public terminals for general use.

Also worth noting - everyone who did a Google Search last month uses Linux too. Perhaps it's a HTTP GUI instead of a X11 GUI; but it's a large scale linux GUI application nontheless.

Re:It's all over (1)

nxtw (866177) | more than 8 years ago | (#15511431)

As did many people with many common broadband routers and DVRs -- with HTTP guis (if they use the interface at all) or TV GUIs

KDE? Please.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15512232)

Obviously they should have gone for Gnome.. KDE sucks.. I predict we will see a change to M$ Windoze in a few months because Linux showed itself off as unusable

Next best thing to do... (3, Insightful)

schmu_20mol (806069) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512281)

... would be if they started porting their, already free of charge, income tax return software to linux (elster [elster.de] ).

I think KDE is evil (0, Flamebait)

fmoliveira (979051) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512609)

I hate KDE because it uses QT. A tool that enforces your resulting work to be free doesnot really feel likes a free tool. I am all for libraries using LGPL, as it was previously named "Library GPL". I lost my respect for Stallman when he started preaching people to use GPL for libraries. If people followed this nuttery it would be increasingly difficult to run any commercial software in linux.

Re:I think KDE is evil (2, Informative)

osi79 (805499) | more than 8 years ago | (#15512844)

> I hate KDE because it uses QT. A tool that enforces your resulting work to be
> free doesnot really feel likes a free tool.

You are not forced at all to release your KDE software under GPL. Feel free to purchase a Qt license from Trolltech, and you can release your software under whatever license you want.
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