×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Summer Camps Join Fray Against MySpace

timothy posted more than 7 years ago | from the jhu-cty-fnm dept.

251

The New York Times reports that now even summer camps are raising concerns about social networking sites such as MySpace, Friendster, and Facebook. Camps are worried about the ramifications of certain activities being associated with their summer programs after revealing pictures or postings are made online. Some camps are banning digital cameras, while others are instructing campers and parents to remove references to the camps from blog postings. Of course, the camps take the stance that they are merely trying to protect the children:

"The information that kids share today often is personal and private information that allows predators to track them down. We're also concerned about cyber-bullying."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

251 comments

And one time, on My Space (5, Funny)

PIPBoy3000 (619296) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593246)

I can't wait for the Band Camp references to begin.

Re:And one time, on My Space (1)

hurfy (735314) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593346)

Sorry, i really tried and just came up blank.....no wait that was the censor you should see...oh nm

hehe just glad i was usually the only one with a camera at band camp ;)

anyways, good luck with getting kids to not talk about camp. Complain about ppl talking behind your back and what do you suppose happens :)

Re:And one time, on My Space (2, Funny)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593486)

This one time, at Band Camp, I tried to go online and check Slashdot from the computer lab.

So this one kid, who hates me because I'm better, looked over my shoulder while I was surfing.

When he saw the "News for Nerds" banner, he started shouting "News for Nerds! Stuff that Sucks!" over and over again. Everyone at camp stopped what they were doing to chant along.

I cried myself to sleep that night and the next day, everyone called me "nerdface".

Re:And one time, on My Space (2, Insightful)

cyberscan (676092) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594295)

Just as paedophiles are profiled on the web, so are their victims. rather than using paedophilia as an excuse for governments to pound us back into the stone age, governments should stop worrying about dropping paedophiles' docs and start worrying about doing its job locking up or killing child rapists. Governments have always used dangerous people as an excuse to take our freedoms away rather than doing something about the dangerous people. MySpace should remain open and children should continue to post online while at the same time, authorities should do away with those who are guilty of raping kids (or anyone else for that matter).

I heard... (4, Funny)

tacarat (696339) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593247)

... that Camp Crystal lake was heading this initiative.

Re:I heard... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593647)

What a sad world we live in when American Pie references are rated higher than slasher movie references.

No pictures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593251)

Are these FEMA camps we are talking about?

Re:No pictures? (-1, Offtopic)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593257)

Now that the New Orleans disaster has revealed FEMA to be a mess of misorganization and incompetence, I don't think anyone can consider even the remote possibility to rumours that they will round up the citizenry and usher in the New World Order.

Re:No pictures? (2, Insightful)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593285)

The new world order IS a mess of misorganization and incompetence.

Just look at the USSR, it could have been described as exactly that. Nepotism, bribes, kickbacks, major corruption, social programs that are just jobs for the incompetent, spying on your political foes... It wasn't a sleek, well oiled government, it was a government bursting at the seams under the weight of corruption.

I mean just the other day, there was a prison shootout, not between the guards and prisioners, but between federal agents trying to shut down the huge number of corrupt guards.

The real criminals aren't the ones behind the bars, it's the ones in power.

Banning progress does not work (5, Insightful)

the_furman (931683) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593255)

It's perfectly understandable that summer camp administrators are concerned. There's cause for concern. I think, however, that trying to ban kids from socializing online and discussing their camp experiences is definitly not the way to go. Social networking sites like Myspace are a reality, and trying to ban reality never works. Teaching kids about safe behaviour on the 'net would be a much more viable option, IMHO.

Re:Banning progress does not work (3, Insightful)

mantar (941076) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593297)

Absolutely correct, and while I think it's cute that camps are taking an interest in the kids that attend, where are the parents in all of this? There's no doubt that these social networking sites can be dangerous for teenage girls who can't keep their lid shut about personal issues (have you ever met a teenage girl who could?), so why are parents not taking an active interest in their children's online activity?

Re:Banning progress does not work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593362)

Teaching safe behavior on the web would require parents to actually care about what their kids do while surfing. Like they do with computer games, and television, and...

Observation. (3, Insightful)

Stalyn (662) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593444)

There is a mantra that exists on /. and perhaps society as a whole that the simple solution to problems akin to MySpace is proper parenting. I think it is a gross oversimplification to think being a "good parent" is going to solve all children related problems. In the same way it is an oversimplification to solely blame MySpace.

I think the solution sits somewhere in the middle. That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety. Also parents need to educate themselves and take more of a role in their child's internet activity. Also there is a third step where all of us need to understand the disconnect between the Internet and RL is illusionary. What you do on the Internet has RL consequences and vice versa.

Re:Observation. (1)

myyrk (660336) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593819)

That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety.

Maybe MySpace should chaperone the kids when they go to meet people they have met online.

Re:Observation. (5, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593858)

the simple solution to problems akin to MySpace is proper parenting.

Not at all - The simple solution to 99% of MySpace problems rests in recognizing that the "problems" don't exist in the first place. With the exception of the twits threatening to extort MySpace and posting about it thereupon, every other "problem" involved some busybody 3rd party authority-figure overstepping their bounds and panicking over harmless boasting and dick-waving.

So Little Jimmy posed with a bottle of Jack - Can you prove he drank it and that it contained actual whiskey, rather than drinking cherry kool-aid out of a previously empty bottle? Can you even prove the punk in the poor-quality overly-compressed picture, wearing the same style of clothes and hair as every other 14YO male in the country, as the same Jimmy?

So Susie has a list of people she hates and wants dead. We all (at least mentally) kept lists of people we hated and wanted dead. We just didn't act on them. Nor would Susie - Her "enemies" stand a better chance of dying in a freak accident involving snakes on a plane, than of her snapping one day and reenacting Doom down her school's corridors.

So a 40 year old guy has a MySpace page saying he likes cartoons. Ever met a Disney employee? They really do act like that, no hidden pedophile motives involved. And if he admits to playing with Legos - My god! Call the swat team, we might just... gasp... have an engineer on our hands!


That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety

Sure - Just as soon as those parents start paying MySpace to act as babysitters. Seriously - We have a basic issue of "responsibility" here, specifically, who bears it. Parents have a responsibility to raise their kids. MySpace does not, regardless of how many "tweens" use it.

MySpace represents the modern equivalent of playground gossip and note-passing. And, like it or not, the swingset doesn't censor its occupants, nor does the pencil refuse to write down obscenities.



What you do on the Internet has RL consequences and vice versa.

No - What you stupidly do on the 'net under your own name has consequences. Not that, if really motivated, you couldn't figure out my RL identity - I've probably given more than enough info without you even needing to leave Slashdot to track me down. But you can't just type in my real name in Google and see 183 reasons to fire me, 26 reasons to arrest me, and four reasons to execute me for treason (hey, don't forget that nontrivial crypto used to count as "munitions"). If these stupid kids would figure out the same thing, and do just a teensy bit to obscure their identities (no real names, blur faces and obvious location-signs in photos), we would all-but-stop-hearing about the evils of MySpace.

Re:Observation. (1)

Stalyn (662) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593953)

Sure - Just as soon as those parents start paying MySpace to act as babysitters. Seriously - We have a basic issue of "responsibility" here, specifically, who bears it. Parents have a responsibility to raise their kids. MySpace does not, regardless of how many "tweens" use it.

I never suggested such a thing. I said MySpace should work with parents in some way. Maybe actively educate parents about MySpace. Provide parents with some tools to monitor their child's page. I'm not asking for draconian measures but really simple and pragmatic things.

Also why do corporations skirt all responsibility? Aren't corporations people too?

Re:Observation. (4, Funny)

mantar (941076) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593997)

"But you can't just type in my real name in Google and see 183 reasons to fire me, 26 reasons to arrest me, and four reasons to execute me for treason"

Don't be so sure... Haven't you heard about "Google DirtFinder Beta"? :-)

Re:Observation. (1)

mantar (941076) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593951)

Today, many children are left to raise themselves, by parents consumed by alchoholism, workoholism, or any other -ism you can think of. Everything about the family structure implies the responsibility of parenthood... it's inherently biological. Does MySpace have a vested interest in the safety of these teenagers? Not really... they'll go only as far as it takes to keep their collective asses out of court. That goes for any other company out there with offerings targeted at our youth. What it boils down to is an issue of trust... can you as a parent trust another person/group/school/company/etc to always have your child's best interests at heart? If not, it's up to you as the parent to regulate and/or monitor their interaction with these entities. Is this a "gross oversimplification"? Maybe... but ultimately, parents are the front line of defense for their children, and when no one else will protect them from these dangers... it becomes their duty.

Call it a "mantra" if you like... but, just like a famous Hindu mantra: "from non-being to being lead me, from darkness to light lead me"

...from ignorance to truth lead me.

Re:Observation. (1)

Stalyn (662) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594048)

What's that other saying... "it takes a village to raise a child".

I don't deny that parents are on the frontlines and a powerful influence. But there are other factors involved and some are indeed more powerful.

Bzzzt. Wrong. (3, Insightful)

the_furman (931683) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593952)

Disagree completely. You simply cannot push the burden of chaperoning kids onto Myspace the same way you can't expect phone companies to monitor calls to make sure the conversation is safe. That's silly. All Myspace is is a communications medium and there's absolutely no way they, as a company, can ensure that all the communication that takes place within the medium happens to be safe.

Also note that in my post above I did not single out parenting as a solution to the problem. In fact, I've never even mentioned parenting, even though it's certainly a part of the solution. The most important factor involved is education, for parents and for the kids. People need to be taught about the risks and ramifications involved in sharing personal information online.
This is not to say that sharing personal information online is always a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with being a public figure, and each public figure decides for themselves just how much they want to reveal. Some chose to remain anonymous while others post naked pictures of themselves along with phone numbers. What seems to happen quite a bit with Myspace and the like is people don't realize just how much they're revealing and how this information can be used against them. This is where education comes in.

Baning a communication medium is not the way to go. Not only is it the wrong thing to do, but it's also futile. Kids will post their camp expariences regardless of whether or not it's against the rules. Pushing them underground, so to say, achieves nothing.

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (1)

Stalyn (662) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593990)

I never said ban it or MySpace should take sole responsbility. MySpace should work with parents. See my other reply [slashdot.org].

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (1)

the_furman (931683) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594281)

Why should it work with parents? Should your wireless provider work with parents to help spy on kids?

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (1)

Stalyn (662) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594317)

Telecoms have no problems working with the government. But you are confusing MySpace for an ISP, which it isn't. MySpace can be held responsible for its content, just like Slashdot can. Remember when Slashdot removed a posting about Scientology?

Of course Slashdot opted not to fight the case but they might have lost.

Re:Banning progress does not work (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593817)

This issue goes deeper than just 'security' of the campers, but also to disgruntled campers taking random nude photos off the internet and claiming that they were taken at camps etc, smearing the names of camp councelors etc.

Still, most social networking sites have some kind of profile reporting system, usually staffed by volunteers, to keep nudity offline... but yeah, i can kinda see both sides of the issue on this one, both letting kids socialize, and at the same time trying to keep them safe. really it's up to the parents of the children to teach them good manners and responsibility, and how to socialize acceptably.

As to banning reality, I know quite a few people with an iron curtain of suspension of disbelief. how well it works depends on your definition of 'working.' If living inside a cave with no access in or out is your idea of a 'working security model' then feel free to enjoy the perfect harmony of letting nobody in :)

Re:Banning progress does not work (1)

the_furman (931683) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593986)

The problem of libel and slander is not new or unique to the internet and there are perfectly fine machanisms in place for dealing with it that have worked just fine over the years.

here's an idea (4, Insightful)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593261)

Why not provide better supervision of the kids at summer camp so that there is less dirt to post about? Oh wait that would require someone to actually take some responsibility...

Re:here's an idea (4, Insightful)

bunions (970377) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593279)

Yes, we should be watching the children 24-7 and never let them make mistakes. That's a sure way to raise kids that are smart and self-reliant.

Re:here's an idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593305)

That's not the point the parent was trying to make. Why do parents always have to blame someone or something else for mistakes they could have prevented. Parents should supervise their kids when they are on the internet. If you don't want your son looking at porn you are going to need to watch him or that is the first place he will go. Trust me I was 13 with a dial-up connection, I know.

Watch your kids when they are on the internet, or don't cry if your kid gets abducted from posting their exact address, the way the walk home, and their phone number on the internet!

Re:here's an idea (3, Interesting)

bunions (970377) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593363)

Watch your kids when they are on the internet, or don't cry if your kid gets abducted from posting their exact address, the way the walk home, and their phone number on the internet!

Sure. What I'm concerned about is someone sneaking into the girls locker room, taking photos with their digital camera and spreading them all over the internet. Technology has changed what used to be a harmless prank into something potentially really nasty.

Why do parents always have to blame someone or something else for mistakes they could have prevented.

I'd like you to explain how I could be reasonably expected prevent something like this, assuming I wasn't the parent of one of the hypothetical kids who took the hypothetical pictures.

Re:here's an idea (2, Insightful)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594247)

Exactly the same thing you could do if the kid in question run off a hundred photocopiers and dropped in them in mailboxes around town. And it wouldn't be complaining that the local library should somehow be made to supervise anyone using their photocopiers.

Re:here's an idea (1)

Neptune0z (930626) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593378)

Someone to actually take some responsibility...WTF are you talking about?...This is the USA, noone takes responsibility anymore. Not politicians (They blame congress and other politicians), not corporations (They redirect misconduct to some lone-renegade-employee), and worst of all not the parents (They blame the teachers and society as a whole)...It's pretty obvious here that the camps are just trying to avoid bad publicity for their own shortcomings...Very few people have any integrity left...sad... P.S....Oh pleasssse!, Wont you just think of the children!

Need to blame someone (5, Interesting)

wiz31337 (154231) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593266)

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing parents, school counselors, child psychologists, etc blaming MySpace for virtually everything bad that could occur in a teens life.

"[Camps] worry about online predators tracking children to camp and about their image being tarnished by inappropriate Internet juxtapositions"

They claim in the article that predators will use MySpace to discover summer camps where children are going and then possibly kidnap them or something worse. Summer camps don't suddenly pop-up over night and contact parents via ESP to get their children to come; they advertise in the paper, on the Internet, and by fliers. MySpace isn't tipping anyone off to these "secretive" camps, anyone can go to Google and find 30 summer camps without any problem. As for predators using the information to choose their specific target, probably not.

The article then goes on to say:
"[Kids] were some things that we found that some of the kids posted that were really kind of nasty, saying bad things about counselors"
If they have to list this as one of the reasons to abolish MySpace, they need to grow up.

If someone can point me to some concrete facts about the number of abductions that have occurred solely as a result of a kid using MySpace (without any other factors) I will get off my soap box. I agree
one case is too many, and it is horrible, but would it have happened anyway without MySpace?

Re:Need to blame someone (5, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593320)

"[Kids] were some things that we found that some of the kids posted that were really kind of nasty, saying bad things about counselors"
It's called CYA (Cover Your Ass)

All kinds of shit goes on at summer camps that would cause parents to freak.

The administrators running these camps don't want those kinds of details to come out, since we know that people (regardless of age) are stupid when it comes to pictures on MySpace, FaceBook, Etc. It'd be a huge liability issue on their part. parents would be asking "how could you let [bad behavior caught on camera] happen?"

"For the children" is just the easiest way to get everyone onboard.

Re:Need to blame someone (2, Interesting)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593458)

I think you hit it right on the head of the nail there

they are covering themselves from people saying bad things about problems with the camp but much more so, they know exactly what goes on at the camp. They probobly know that some parents also know what goes on and dont care but there are parents who would care if they knew and would at the least not send their children there and at the most, take legal action against the camp. I'm not sure exactly what is going on at these camps but if its not bad enough for the camp to actually do anything about it then its probobly not bad enough that the kids with overprotective parents cant experiance it.

So now... (3, Interesting)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593566)

So now you can know that the camp is taking an active role in covering up activities that parents would find objectable. This is certainly not to 'protect' the children. If anything it makes sure that any dangers continue to go on uncorrected.

Re:Need to blame someone (2, Interesting)

bcat24 (914105) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593351)

Amen! Parents/schools/camps/etc. want a scapegoat, something they can blame for their incompetence. MySpace is the perfect thing to blame: it's new, it's different, and it's on Teh Scary Internet where Bad People hang out. Of course, the media doesn't help any with their scare tactics.

Sure, MySpace can be dangerous, but so can anything other forum, or social thing in the world, for that matter. I guess I just wish people would spend less time attacking MySpace and more time teaching kids how to be safe and smart online.

Re:Need to blame someone (1)

russellh (547685) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594132)

Amen! Parents/schools/camps/etc. want a scapegoat, something they can blame for their incompetence. MySpace is the perfect thing to blame: it's new, it's different,

Parents don't want someone to blame for problems, they want to prevent problems. It doesn't matter who is to blame when your daughter turns up dead, because blame won't bring her back. Parents know there are fucked up people in the world, and the last thing we want to do is fuel their fantasies. but at the same time we don't want our children to be turned into suspicious, world-weary cynics.

I guess I just wish people would spend less time attacking MySpace and more time teaching kids how to be safe and smart online.

It's an ongoing problem. Communication and empathy is a lot of work.

Re:Need to blame someone (1)

zephc (225327) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593360)

Everyone knows predators use personal cloaking technology, vision-guided energy blasts, multi-wavelength heads-up displays. Much more effective than MySpace.

Re:Need to blame someone (3, Insightful)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593412)

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing parents, school counselors, child psychologists, etc blaming MySpace for virtually everything bad that could occur in a teens life.

Me too. The ironic thing is that those are the parents that simply should not have kids either.

I mean, since when will the old standby of waiting at a school bus or going to a shopping mall and pulling the "I'm sorry Johnny, your parents were just in an accident, and I was asked to take you to the hospital to see them" or similar trick stop working?

Yet again, more evidence that logic and reason go out the window when "computers" or "online" is involved. Every week I see kids missing on milkboxes or on those token mailers with the "Have you seen me?" on them. And you know what? I'm pulling this number out of the air, but its probably pretty close, over 90% of those missing kids were taken by most likely a parent or someone else they know. The others simply had such shitty parents that they just decided to fend for themselves.

Lets just put all kids and their parents in prisons and call it even.

Re:Need to blame someone (1)

Jim_Callahan (831353) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593922)

I don't think they're worried about people hanging out at summer camps and trying to grab kids at random, as that crime is virtually untouched one way or the other by the internet. They're worried about stalkers of specific children being able to identify a time and place when their target is vulnerable, which is a dramatically increased concern in this situation. Other than that, I think you've pretty much summarized accurately.

Cyber-bullying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593295)

Cyber-bullying! The number of social ills that are becoming cyborgs just never stops growing. To the likes of cybercrime, cyberterrorism, and cyberstalking we can now add such things as cyberbullying, cybervandalism, cyberadultery, cyberdomesticviolence, and cyberhalitosis. I'm not sure what that last one would be. Maybe that's the equivalent of an inability to spell. If so, that's definitely a problem that Myspace is going to have to deal with.

Re:Cyber-bullying (1)

Kesch (943326) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593309)

You think it's all jokes until the first time you get your cyberlunchmoney stolen.

Re:Cyber-bullying (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593821)

"That's Big Dave Diode's bunk. How'd you like to wake up tomorrow morning and find your credit rating slashed?"

Much like the fat guy in "Ernest Goes to Camp"... (2, Insightful)

Stick_Fig (740331) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593296)

...it sure feels like they're trying to solve all their problems by throwing Eggserronious on them.

Let's not blame MySpace for any behavioral/discipline/legal problems. The real problem is that, much like the Last Chance kids from "Camp," you spent all your time allowing the older kids to treat them like dirt, and only Ernest (despite the whole posion ivy incident) really cared about them -- enough so that he was able to stop Kramer Construction singlehandedly.

God, I love that movie.

what could be so bad? (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593308)

It is like Jason's mom is going to come back the camp and avenge his death after some old guy pretending to be a horny girl seduces him over myspace for a tryst that results in a tragic boating accident in which they both drown. Hey, entire industries have been built on lamer premises.

A new age (3, Insightful)

celardore (844933) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593317)

We all have digital cameras, camera phones etc... It's just a part of technology becoming more and more a part of our lives. It needn't be a bad thing, summer camp is probably one of the best places a teen can capture memories to show the family. Just because bad stuff can be done with these things doesn't mean an outright ban should follow.

You're not allowed to take a camera into most swimming pools now, however much you want to capture your child first swimming. A few bad apples...

Re:A new age (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593450)

You're not allowed to take a camera into most swimming pools now, however much you want to capture your child first swimming. A few bad apples...


You must be talking about the USA, land of the free. First amendment. But luckily, there are still countries whose citizens are free.

Re:A new age (1)

celardore (844933) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593572)

You must be talking about the USA, land of the free. First amendment. But luckily, there are still countries whose citizens are free.

Actually, I was talking about England. And I don't really agree that a ban on cameras in pools is invading your freedom any more than it is anothers freedom not to be photographed in swimwear. I was just saying is all.

Think of the children!! (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593322)

So in other words, summer camps don't want parents to look at some kids account of his camp experience on myspace about making out with a girl, and then freaking out that it's all one big den of sexual experimentation.

The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. Trademarking your camp name, and then using that to try to control speech sounds just wrong to me. If parents are really getting the wrong idea about a camp by reading what a 12 year old has to say about it on myspace, the problem is in the parents listening to a 12 year old on myspace, not the 12 year old being a 12 year old.

"Cyber Bullying"? (3, Funny)

IthnkImParanoid (410494) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593327)

Proof the internet is now just as much for dumb jocks as it is for nerds. Guess it's time to get started on the Metaverse, where we can be free once again ;p.

Re:"Cyber Bullying"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593476)

It's really bothering me now. I've lost my home. Do you know of any possible alternatives?
i2p.net? Anything else?

The BUCK stops with you, the parent... (3, Insightful)

posterlogo (943853) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593343)

...and if the summer camps claim they want to help you out, that's their right to do so, and you can decide whether or not they are being overly bureaucratic/paranoid or not. What neither the summer camps nor the parents should be allowed to do, is sue MySpace, etc. because of their failings as parents. In the end, it's almost always inadequate parenting that causes their children to engage in risky behavior.

Re:The BUCK stops with you, the parent... (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593652)

Actually, I'd like to see a few sue MySpace, and lose big time - I mean the judge handing out an absolute arse-kicking to the plaintiffs, utterly shredding their cases, pointing out in no uncertain terms exactly what they've done wrong, what they should have done, and to never even consider suing on similar grounds again.

With a little luck, it might make a few people think twice and actually take some personal responsibility.

Why the snide tone? (5, Interesting)

apflwr3 (974301) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593345)

I know "protecting the children" is a cliche, but doesn't it kind of apply here? Camp administrators are the children's guardians for the time they are there and have as much, if not more obligation as a parent to keep kids safe. They also have an obligation to protect themselves from lawsuits from parents if a fat kid trying to paddle a canoe becomes the next viral video...

As any Slashdot nerd who's been to camp (or gym class, or any other instance where 8-to-18 year olds are thrown together) there is a lot of pranks, hazing and other forms of humiliation that goes on in these environments. I bet the camps are more worried that photos of kids who had the ol' hand-in-warm-water trick pulled on them by their bunk mates will circulate (and then the potential lawsuits from parents afterwards.)

Absolutely not. (2, Insightful)

Skadet (528657) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593468)

I know "protecting the children" is a cliche, but doesn't it kind of apply here?
No.

"Protecting civil rights" is a cliche that DOES apply. That's why this should be called for the bullshit that it is.

Re:Why the snide tone? (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593899)

I would agree if you're talking about posting the video online while still at camp. But it's the parents responsibility to control the little terrors at home, and that's the FAR more likely place where the posting to MySpace will happen.

Right now I'm sure there's a lot of parents that would never suspect their perfect little terror would do such a thing. But I think that kind of thing will change when the first a million dollar lawsuit is upheld against a negligent parent whose kid posted a harassing video/picture of another kid online. Basically if you send your kid away with a video or still camera it's your responsibility as a parent to make sure the kid doesn't use it to harass some other kid. The only difference now is that the internet multiplies the potential power of one kids harassment by a few million.

Camps trying to control this kind of thing through legal means and trademark will never work.

Aaaahhh summer camp... (3, Interesting)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593349)

The bad memories...

We hear so much about camp sex stories... Alas, it was not the case for us.

We used to go to a private school who, during the summer, had a day camp, where we were supervised by the teachers.

Can you imagine? Not only spending the WHOLE GODDAMMED SUMMER with the same teachers we had during the school year (and, somehow, they had to magically turn into our friends and were supposed to have fun with them) but also doing this in the very same school building???

When I turned 12, we managed to convince our parents that we wanted to stay home, so she hired a sitter.

A sitter dumb enough to sit in front of TV all day long (cable was new 35 years ago), while we pushed the bed against the bedroom door while we had sex orgie (I'm not shitting you - this was the 70's - yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking).

The teacher lasted about 5 weeks until, one day, my mother came home early and found the sitter sprawled in front of the TV watching a stupid soap, but none of us around.

My mother found out where we were when we came back from the swimming pool (a 15 block walk) one hour later. Needless to say, she was glad to save on the sitter (and we could have the orgies in the living room).

Two words (1)

Skadet (528657) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593503)

yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking
Teach me?

Re:Two words (2, Funny)

Valacosa (863657) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593602)

"...this was the 70's - yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking." But where did you learn such vile behaviour? That was in the time before video games! *ducks*

Re:Aaaahhh summer camp... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593984)

I'm pretty sure that no one who's been in one-- in the 70s or otherwise-- has ever called it a "sex orgy." That's what the suspicious old lady next door gossips to her friends about when you have more than three people over your house...

"They had long hair and funny clothes... And I think they were fixing to have a SEX ORGY!"

Jesus Christ... (2, Funny)

tpjunkie (911544) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594056)

I have mod points right now, and shit, not only is there not an appropriate label to mod that comment, I don't even know what to say in response. If only there was a "+7, rendered me fucking speechless" option.

It's truly fascinating... (5, Interesting)

CDarklock (869868) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593350)

...how many adults are becoming absolutely PANICKED at the idea that children can TALK ABOUT THEM.

Adults have always treated children like crap, but there's never really been any concrete evidence of it because adults have played the strongarm card over everything the child is allowed to say or do. If you took a picture of an adult doing something embarrassing, the picture could be taken away. But now that the picture is a bundle of unfettered electrons stored on a web server that belongs to someone you DON'T have the right to bully and coerce, they can't do that anymore.

It might make being an adult somewhat more problematic, but I'm willing to bet it makes the children's lives a whole hell of a lot better.

The death of privacy is GOOD. The only people that care about it are the ones who shouldn't be doing what they're doing ANYWAY.

Re:It's truly fascinating... (1)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593556)

I'm just curious, how old are you? Also, how many students have an unreasonable hate of a teacher just because they don't do well in a certain class? The world isn't like the Kids Next Door. ;)

Re:It's truly fascinating... (1)

cyber-dragon.net (899244) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593587)

I take it you are going to be the first to volunteer to have cameras installed in your house and office for people to watch you at their whim?

Amen to that (4, Insightful)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593729)

Nowadays children have negative civil rights. They have the right to demand to be oppressed. Other people's civil rights get taken away to keep children "protected". It's fricken' ridiculous. The world they live in is so much worse than a police state it's crazy. They're herded, imprisoned, propertyless, practically property themselves. Every man's hand is against them. If I were a kid I'd look on digital technology as the last small bastion of genuine personal liberty, and I'd be thinking seriously about organizing an armed revolt.

Re:Amen to that (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593832)

"If I were a kid I'd look on digital technology as the last small bastion of genuine personal liberty, and I'd be thinking seriously about organizing an armed revolt."

You'll grow out of it...

Re:It's truly fascinating... (1)

rangerfan558 (842657) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594276)

"The death of privacy is GOOD. The only people that care about it are the ones who shouldn't be doing what they're doing ANYWAY." BULLSHIT!!!!! I'll bet you'll change THAT tune when they come for you. Yes, we have lost alot of freedoms in the last 30 years, but I will still fight to keep as much personal privacy as possible. FIGHT THE TRYANNY, don't roll over like a lamb.

The camera ban might be a good idea. (0)

Dioji (632761) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593356)

Go to webshots.com and search for "cheer camp shower". Need I say more?

Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (3, Insightful)

Maelwryth (982896) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593456)

Yes, why is she wearing bikini in a shower? Probably followed by whats wrong with a picture of a girl wearing bikini in a shower.

Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (3, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593755)

Go to webshots.com and search for "cheer camp shower". Need I say more?

Oh noezz!! A scary intraweb predator is going to see a picture of girls in bikinis and track them all down and rape and kill them! Everyone panic!!! We need more laws and restrictions, quick!

Need I say more?

Yes, please do, because I don't know what the hell your point is.

Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (3, Insightful)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593797)

Okay. I did.

What we have here is a bunch of girls who took pictures of themselves and friends in the shower. All were wearing bikinis. In other words, I could get the same "thrill" by going to any public beach.

I suppose you have to say more. I'm a bit lost as to what is "bad" about this. It looks like all the people involved were willing participants.

Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593955)

Hey! That's my cousin!!

Treating symptoms? (5, Insightful)

greatcelerystalk (981442) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593361)

Camp directors are attempting to do two things, according to the article: treat the symptoms of a problem and censor negative opinions about their organizations.

If photographs of a camp and its attendees have managed to wind their way onto an adult website, I have no qualms with the camp in questions taking action to have the material removed, however, it seems the camp might want to devote more resources to educating attendees about safety. I also don't see any issue with confiscating digital cameras, even though many children who've gone to camp in the past were able to take photographs.

I certainly take issue with camps' attempts to censor negative opinion and activities which take place outside of the camp and are unrelated to the camp. The article makes it seem like these camps are asking both attendees and counselors to censor their outside activities so as not to make the camp "look bad."

As a former camp counselor... (4, Interesting)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593420)

I actually use MySpace to keep in touch with friends I met at camp and fellow counselors.

I am an Eagle Scout and after graduating from college last May I decided to serve as a counselor at my BSA camp in Florida as a water ski instructor (cush job, right?). It was the most fun I had ever had in my life. Gettin paid to drive a power boat around a lake.

They had a computer room setup for staff and adult leaders with a satellite downlink and phoneline for the uplink. The camp is very remote and no chance of DSL or cable. Because I work in the real world now and have a real job I won't get the chance to work there again this year although I want to soo badly.

At least using MySpace I can keep up with the people I met at camp. http://camplanoche.com/ [camplanoche.com] is the place.

Here's the REAL solution (2, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593428)

Hold parents accountable for the mental and physical well-being of their children at all times. I know it might keep the courts systems busy as hell but here's the thing: If people are so worried about that their kids get themselves into, why aren't they just WATCHING THEM?! I have two sons and I don't find it difficult to keep up with where they go and what they do... within reason... "within reason" is my next thing which is the "exception" part of it which should, in the event of a problem, some "professional" should investigate cases to determine if a parent was already doing their best when it comes to caring for the health and well-being of their children.

We'd end up with some sort of gestapo-like situation with CPS or some other agency breathing down everyone's neck, but this is what people are asking for! They want to blame the world and make a profit through lawsuits. But if people are the first line of blame for their childrens' behavior, there would be a LOT fewer complaints about what kids have available to them won't there? But this addresses all of the concerns from "dangerous video games" to "what they do on the internet." It might even have the added bonus of issues like chilhood obesity and health issues that result from negligence.

I hate to say it, but we need a law to make it happen.

Re:Here's the REAL solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593497)

Just like the 14 yr old with the lawsuit because she was dumb enough to meet up with a complete stranger from myspace. Why doesn't she just sue her parents for poor genetics resulting in lack of brains. Obviously we need to make a class on common sense mandatory to teens and preteens. No, nevermind, they never listen anyway....

Re:Here's the REAL solution (1)

kz45 (175825) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593930)

Just like the 14 yr old with the lawsuit because she was dumb enough to meet up with a complete stranger from myspace. Why doesn't she just sue her parents for poor genetics resulting in lack of brains. Obviously we need to make a class on common sense mandatory to teens and preteens. No, nevermind, they never listen anyway....

Her mother was interviews a couple of days ago and she said "there's nothing we can do to stop this". It's pure stupidity that starts with the parents.

Use Elgg instead (1)

MichaelPenne (605299) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593454)

One thing educational institutions can do is use Elgg's open source social networking software, which provides the features of MySpace, etc. Install it locally or on an institutional server, and block MySpace, etc. at the firewall.

More http://elgg.net/ [elgg.net]

Uphill battle (2, Interesting)

virgil_disgr4ce (909068) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593499)

Guess what, camp directors? If you're so deathly paranoid that someone's going to find out what really goes on at your camp, maybe you might make some effort to take control of it. Not that I would want them to, really; underage drinking and sex is part of what makes camping such a memorable part of childhood. "...we don't want to have to deal with that kind of exposure." Maybe it's time to own up, Mr. Seving, director of Camp Fernwood. With regards to MySpace putting all the information out there: guess what, parents and kids, if you're going to put up a bunch of pictures and information about yourself on one of the world's biggets social net sites, be prepared to deal with the possible ramifications--as well as acknowledge that those are only *possibilities* and not *certainties*. The statements in this article about camps being worried about "online predators" somehow tracking their children down is bullshit. They're trying to find any excuse they can to keep their reputation of normalcy and safety, when in fact, kids have been doing f-ed up shit for years at camp, and they're not going to stop. It's an uphill battle, camp directors.

Remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15593500)

But if they're not doing anything wrong, they shouldn't be worried about this. They're guilty I tell you!

In other words... (1)

Donniedarkness (895066) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593518)

...the camps know they aren't keeping as good an eye on the campers as the campers' parents would like... so they're mad at myspace because people are finding out about this. It's about the same as a professor suing ratemyprofessors.com because the administrator found out he took smoke breaks during classes. It's not the website's fault.

Camps are FUN (2, Insightful)

kyc (984418) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593538)

Just let them post their photos. Being paranoid doesn't work most of the time. And with exponential growth of these sites; can you stop it ? NO Should you stop it ? Questionable; Let these youngsters have fun to the bottom; and share it. How dangerous can it be after all ?

more likely (1)

alizard (107678) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593542)

they're concerned that the kids might tell the unvarnished truth in public about the food, or more seriously, about abusive counselors or administrators.

Operation "Suck All Fun out of Being a Kid" (2, Insightful)

OverflowingBitBucket (464177) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593613)

Excellent! Operation "Suck All Fun out of Being a Kid" is coming along nicely. First we open sites that let kids sign up to potential lawsuits if they speak to anyone else- they might be talking to an online predator! Next, we make sure they can't talk about anything that might affect a commercial interest. Good to see phase two is proceeding according to schedule. Given time, if our operation is successful, all that these kids will be able to post is "Current Mood: Depressed". Which strangely enough, given the crap we're dumping on them, will probably be quite accurate.

Isn't it time to reign in the lawyers and the mollycoddlers?

Good god! Myth Destroyed! (4, Insightful)

kaiwai (765866) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593713)

I thought this whole 'summer camp' thing was a myth, but they actually exist over there

Why the hell do these places exist? I mean, good lord, when I was a teenager, during the holidays, I worked, went to the movies and kept my self occupied, without the need of my parents spending money hand over fist to some over hyped establishment.

Geeze, I really wonder sometimes why parents have kids if all they do is boot their kids off to a camp each year, simply to avoid them.

Re:Good god! Myth Destroyed! (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593961)

It ain't a myth, I'm leaving for camp on Sunday. Of course, mine's a camp where you actually *study* things, and I volunteered to go. Why people send their kids off to Podunk Random Camp, I'll never know.

IMO... (0, Troll)

NoScreenNamesLeft (958015) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593823)

MySpace is a waste of time. There are plenty of other ways to communicate to friends that are superior. Forums, for example. Invisionfree loads faster than any myspace profile. Blogging seems to me to be the new hit way to talk to yourself. Some of these profiles have such malformed CSS they crash your browser.

The problem? (2, Insightful)

dmdb (937749) | more than 7 years ago | (#15593907)

MySpace is a communication tool, no more, no less. It doesn't create these incidents, they have been there all along. Perhaps they have changed with time, perhaps not. That however is fairly irrelevant, I'm sure we've all done things in our time which we'd prefer not to be published on the internet. For me, perhaps fortunatly, the internet had not caught on to social networking during my teens in quite the same way as it has now. All MySpace does, in the same way that other similar sites do is create a little more transparancy in the system and is could be likened to having a delayed CCTV system from the camps piped into the parents home. MySpace is not to blame, should not be held responsible etc for any actions that happen at the camps, it simply puts practices and actions which have happened in the camps more into the public domain. 'What happens at camp stays at camp' is no longer such an easy oath to keep, is this the fault of MySpace, no, this is part of growing up, everyone makes mistakes, most I would like to believe learn from these. We all have experiences that have shaped our current position in life for better or for worse, MySpace does not alter this it simply treads the path where mainstream news cannot easily reach.

confused... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15594063)

Camps are worried about the ramifications of certain activities being associated with their summer programs after revealing pictures or postings are made online.

so they don't want people to know what goes on at camp, according to that. that doesn't sound like they are worried about safety of kids...

How about we teach them something useful? (2, Interesting)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 7 years ago | (#15594109)

Teach kids how to misdirect, develop an alias, and spot patterns indicating a predatory nature.

Most kids are pretty smart. There will always be a group that is pretty stupid, but most understand that some people like to see others in pain or want to benefit from their misery. The easiest way I have ever found to keep my information safe is to simply be someone else when interacting online. I've used several aliases over the years and a google search on those names usually brings up a bunch of gibberish.

Parenting is probably not a good way to solve this problem. When it comes to kids and teens socializing, no one wants mom or dad in the picture. It's better just to give them tools to help, even if it's a really big knife.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...