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Sony To Go From First To Worst?

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the dire-mutterings dept.

224

There have been many analyst predictions in the early days of the next-gen consoles, but rarely have they been so direct. DFC Intelligence President David Cole has gone on record saying there's a very real possibility Sony could lose this leg of the race to Microsoft and Nintendo. From the article: "Sony's clear strength is the first factor: brand strength and current market position. The glaring weakness of the PlayStation 3 is price, especially when compared to the competition. However, it is more than just an issue of whether the PlayStation brand strength can justify a premium price. Of course, Sony would like to point to the hardware horsepower and extra features like Blu-ray. The problem is that is only one factor in our forecasting matrix. Furthermore, with the competition having features like Xbox Live and the Nintendo Wii controller, the PS3 may not have that much of an advantage in the elusive 'Wow Factor.'" 1up Editor Sam Kennedy has further musings on this subject, with Next Generation reporting that there may be a problem getting high yields in the PS3 production process.

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224 comments

Sony boycott (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650749)

Even if they had priced the PlayStation 3 at $59 instead of $599, I wouldn't have bought one. I still have not forgiven them for installing rootkits on all of my boxen, thus 0wning my boxen. It just goes to show: "0wn me and I won't 0wn your stuff."

Re:Sony boycott (2, Funny)

Eightyford (893696) | about 8 years ago | (#15650932)

Even if they had priced the PlayStation 3 at $59 instead of $599, I wouldn't have bought one. I still have not forgiven them for installing rootkits on all of my boxen, thus 0wning my boxen. It just goes to show: "0wn me and I won't 0wn your stuff."
W0w. 7h47'$ 4nn0¥1n9 70 r34Ð.

Re:Sony boycott (1)

matt328 (916281) | about 8 years ago | (#15651332)

Almost as 4nn0¥1n9 as when people refer to their computers as their 'boxen'. I think people are getting confus0rz3d. The plural of box is boxes. The plural of ox is oxen. And neither word, nor any ridiculous contraction of the two should be used to refer to one's computers.

Re:Sony boycott (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650970)

Hahaha how is this moderated insightful? Must have been Zonk.

Re:Sony boycott (1)

munehiro (63206) | about 8 years ago | (#15650973)

Even if they had priced the PlayStation 3 at $59 instead of $599, I wouldn't have bought one. I still have not forgiven them for installing rootkits on all of my boxen, thus 0wning my boxen. It just goes to show: "0wn me and I won't 0wn your stuff."

So for this reason I hope you are not going to buy something from who installs a spyware in your boxen.

Re:Sony boycott (1, Informative)

Sinryc (834433) | about 8 years ago | (#15650974)

Lets be realistic. At MOST there are like, 200 people REALLY boycotting Sony for the rootkit. At MOST.

Re:Sony boycott (1)

PaulMorel (962396) | about 8 years ago | (#15651031)

You might be right, if it was just the rootkit thing that people were upset about. There's more to it than that.

A lot of gamers have negative feelings toward Sony due to the blatant disregard for customers shown by Sony Online Entertainment. The time between the PS2 launch and the PS3 launch saw the birth of two of the most infamous MMOs on the market. Sony captivated gamers with Everquest, and then tried to take advantage of them with overpriced, buggy crapfests subsequently released and marketed on the stringth of EQ1. Specifically, I'm talking about EverQuest 2 and Star Wars Galaxies. In gaming circles, Sony lost a lot of credibility there.

Then add the rootkit fiasco on top of that.

And for me, add a broken-within-6-months-of-purchase PS2 that would have cost more to repair than to replace.

Yup, now I boycott Sony. I can't afford not to.

Re:Sony boycott (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651260)

Yeah, but you just can't take gamers' opinions seriously. There are so many who refuse to have anything but MS or Sony or Nintendo consoles, for reasons that are so tenous that they're almost imaginary. So Sony pissed off a bunch of people with SWG - whatever, add another 50,000 to the million xbox fanboys. Normal people will still buy Sony stuff if it's worth buying.

By the way, warranties on consumer electronics are almost always at least a year. You could have got it fixed free.

Re:Sony boycott (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651427)

Actually, I got burned on the PS2 launch as well, the first one was graphically glitching on launch night within about 20 minutes of hooking it up, and its replacement that I got a week later took a shit at 3 and half months, 2 weeks out of warranty. Calling Sony left me with one option, for mere 189 dollars (not including shipping and handling, and thus a total of over 550 dollars considering outlay, tax, repair and S&H) I could be the proud owner of a 4 month old refurbished PS2. As it would still (sometimes) play CD based games, I opted to just play it til it completely died at around the 6 month period and vowed to never purchase another Sony product. 5 years later, I haven't. Screw Sony. This has nothing to do with being an Xbox, Nintendo or Sony fanboy, this simply has to do with a company that took my hard earned cash, gave me a product that was an overhyped POS and then didn't take care of a good former customer.

Re:Sony boycott (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651522)

Each of those 200 people has a blog. By posting about this boycott on the blog, the idea can be syndicated and systematically multicast to a large part of the blogosphere. By blogoscoping to the video game micromarket, we can dynamically multiplex the thinking to create a global blogtext of anti-Sony zeitgeist, thus showing that Sony may not 0wn our boxen.

In short, Sony will suffer the same fate as Dan Rather. It will be utterly destroyed, left with no money and no influence with anyone of any consequence in the known blogiverse.

Re:Sony boycott (4, Funny)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | about 8 years ago | (#15650980)

I still have not forgiven them for installing rootkits on all of my boxen, thus 0wning my boxen. It just goes to show: "0wn me and I won't 0wn your stuff."

Happily for Sony's Investors, the PS3's pricing indicates it is being aimed at a demographic higher than the 12-18 year-old market, so I'm guessing that what you "think" does not matter.

Re:Sony boycott (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651108)

Well...

The pricing: AGE > 18
Game features*: AGE 17

*) RIIIIDGE RAAAACEEEER and heroic battles against a Giant Enemy Crab, based on actual battles that took place in ancient Japan

Re:Sony boycott (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651077)

Good boy. Here, have a cookie.

Re:Sony boycott (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 8 years ago | (#15651627)

Even if they had priced the PlayStation 3 at $59 instead of $599, I wouldn't have bought one. I still have not forgiven them for installing rootkits on all of my boxen, thus 0wning my boxen. It just goes to show: "0wn me and I won't 0wn your stuff."

How is this a troll? Where I come from, we call this abuse of moderation. I doubt it will put a dent in sales, but there are definitely people who got rootkit'd by Sony, who are now refusing to purchase Sony products. Still others got boned by the PS2 laser failure problems, which were widespread in the first generation model of PS2. Even others got boned by the SAME problem with the original playstation, or even the PSOne! Sony apparently can't make a reliable laser unit for any amount of money, or with any amount of experience. Having invented the fucking thing in the first place (the engineers came from/were contracted by Philips and Sony) you'd think they'd be able to figure it out now.

Personally, I won't be buying one just because it costs twice as much as I'm willing to pay for a game console. My mind could be changed if you could run Linux on the thing, and they provided either full functional descriptions for using, or gave away satisfactory drivers for every bit of hardware in the system. I'm not about to buy one if, like the PS2, there's a ton of hardware you can't use at its full potential under Linux. Sony is unlikely to give me full access to the hardware, so they can go fuck themselves until I can get the thing used for under $200 (I have an upper limit for new price, and one for used price, too.)

Its only a battle for the second place (1, Interesting)

WinEveryGame (978424) | about 8 years ago | (#15650758)

In my opinion, the battle for video consoles has even more strongly shifted from the best hardware capabilities to the best titles availability. Of course, title availability was always important, but with all video consoles providing hardware capabilities needed for most games today, it is all about development of titles at this point. This is where Microsoft excels. So, IMHO, the top dog of the future will be Xbox. Sony and Nintendo will duke it out for the second place.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (4, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | about 8 years ago | (#15650790)

I have to disagree with you, there. Which consoles has the best titles depends on what you want from a game.

Pure Fun: Nintendo
FPS/Action: Microsoft
RPG/Story: Sony

Each of the big 3 attracts these types of games to their console because that has been what sold the console in past. Nintendo also get a nudge towards innovation and niche, as well, but until the Wii comes out, that nudge isn't strong enough to make someone buy their console.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650923)

I too disagree. It seems that for generations, the most powerful console was not the leader.

By RAW SPECS:
Genesis was stronger than the SNES,
N64, then Dreamcast > PS1
GameCube & X-Box > PS2.
Gameboy DS. - The DS is still outselling the PSP in every territory, and is practically a cultural phenomenon in Japan where it, (and the DS Lite) is currently outselling the PSP about 8:1

Also as far as games they do cater to 3 different Market Segments (at least in thie generation) and It's not X-Box is teh 1337, and Nintendo is teh Kiddie... crap people keep spewing.

Strengths:

Sony - Single player games. Especially RPG's.
Microsoft - Online Multiplayer. X-box live is light years beyond Sony's current offerings.
Nintendo - Offline Multiplayer. Nintendo still has some of the best Arcade style, pick up and play Party games out there.

It will be interesting to see how the next gen shakes out.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (1)

Rob Nance (645531) | about 8 years ago | (#15651323)

You're info is a bit off friend, and even harder to read.

I really don't know what you are saying in most of your post. I will agree Genesis was mildly more powerful than the SNES, but the NES momentum and brand identification was what led the SNES to victory.

You compare N64, Dreamcast, and PS1 together, but PS1 came out before all of them. In fact, the PS2 is the real reason the Dreamcast failed, because everyone knew it was coming out very soon. It came out one year after Dreamcast, so people were waiting for it. Timing is everything in console releases. Dreamcast came out too late to catch the boat for that gen, and too early for the next gen and could not compete with the PS2 brand after the PS1 rocked the market (just like NES did for SNES). N64 did poorly due to kid centric games, and insanely high cartridge prices. So the PS1 won this round, and the Dreamcast was more powerful but came out way later.

Then you compare Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2. Are you saying the Gamecube and Xbox outsold the PS2 in the US? The gamecube did horribly from a market share perspective in the US and is by far the least powerful system.

Basically all of the most powerful consoles did win the various rounds, but not specifically because of that, just pointing out your irregularities.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (4, Interesting)

scot4875 (542869) | about 8 years ago | (#15651504)

The gamecube ... is by far the least powerful system.

Spoken like a someone with an *excellent* grasp on computer hardware.

Tell me, where did you learn that? On PS2 and XBox forums?

Let me let you in on a secret: The Gamecube and XBox hardware are really *very* close to each other in performance, with the Gamecube having better multi-texturing and the XBox having shader support and *slightly* better polygon crunching performance. The PS2 isn't even close, hardware performance wise, to either system. If you'd like details, there are plenty of reviews out there by people more knowledgeable than yourself. If you'd like proof, LOOK AT RESIDENT EVIL 4 AND METROID PRIME, to name just two of the best looking games to come out during this console generation.

And here's where I give Nintendo props: They managed to cram an extremely elegant, efficient, powerful system into a tiny $200 box. Microsoft did produce a 'superior' system, but it's more than twice as big and 50% more expensive.

The Wii looks to be another engineering marvel, if they manage to fit the amount of power they've promised in the form factor that they've previewed. The XBox 360 is another beast, and it could probably double as a fucking hair dryer even when doing something as simple as watching a DVD.

(Note to Sony and Microsoft: The only major heat-generating component that gets into my stereo cabinet is my Denon receiver. I don't have any desire to add active cooling to cover up your engineering mistakes.)

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (1)

moosesocks (264553) | about 8 years ago | (#15651632)

The Gamecube has a 485mhz PowerPC. XBox has a 733mhz PIII. Although I'm well aware that the two CPUs don't compare clock-to-clock, it's pretty obvious here that in terms of raw processing power, the XBox wins hands down.

Like you mentioned, this didn't turn into a perceptable advantage for Nintendo in practice, as the different architecture and graphics hardware made up for the CPU's shortcomings. To me, it seems like nintendo's hardware is just *barely* fast enough to keep up with the competition, which, although fine for end users, is most likely a bear for developers.

That said, I agree that the Gamecube was among the best consoles ever made.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650991)

Demonstrating once again that Nintendo is Apple, clothed different. Bad taste is yesterday's news. Design and innovation are ascendant.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (1)

AuMatar (183847) | about 8 years ago | (#15650996)

Best titles? I can think of 1 game I wished I could play on Xbox. Best games are Nintendo, followed by Sony (for rpgs). Microsoft isn't even in the same league.

Re:Its only a battle for the second place (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | about 8 years ago | (#15651609)

shifted from best hardware capabilities to the best titles? There is no shift. It's always been this way. The best hardware has almost never mattered in the console wars. Look at the current generation. The PS2 is by far the weakest hardware yet it has the biggest lead by far. In the history of consoles the biggest, best and most expensive hardware has almost always failed.

I'm sure there are exceptions but think back. The leaders in the console race almost never have the best hardware. It's about the games. It always has been about the games and it always will be about the games.

The Problem is ... (3, Insightful)

neonprimetime (528653) | about 8 years ago | (#15650771)

PS3 is a computer [slashdot.org] not a gaming console, they have really screwed up, and this article is right, they could loose at lot of market share.

Re:The Problem is ... (1)

Neoprofin (871029) | about 8 years ago | (#15650810)

I don't think it's any more computer than say... the original X-Box that was literally PC hardware crammed in a console case. Except of course that it maintains quite a bit more computer functionality than the X-Box did.

Still way too expensive...

PS3 a computer (and my car is a spaceship) (1)

PhoenixOne (674466) | about 8 years ago | (#15650908)

The difference is that Microsoft said that the XBox is a console. Sony says The PS3 is a 'Computer', not a Console [gamasutra.com]

Re:PS3 a computer (and my car is a spaceship) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650930)

It worked for the Atari 2600 Video Computer System.

Re:PS3 a computer (and my car is a spaceship) (1)

Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) | about 8 years ago | (#15650958)

calling it a computer is just a tax scam. they tried it with the PS2 but the judge recently gave them the smackdown.

there should be some definition, something like it's only a computer if you can write and run your own code without needing a licence.

Re:The Problem is ... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650828)

*lose* is the word you wanted. *loose* is what my ex wife is.

Re:The Problem is ... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650858)

still got her number?

Re:The Problem is ... (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651048)

...and they lose the rest of crediblity and customers.
Customers who want a computer, will get a PC or Apple. There's no software for PS3 and quite a while before there will be any, except of expensive games.
Customers who want a console, will avoid the "computer".
Customers who want a media center, will do away without the "computer" feature.

Target audience of this product is null.

Re:The Problem is ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651169)

Just to add to your list, the PS3 is a 'computer' that doesn't run normal PC software, including Microsoft Office. And Wine is obviously out of the question seeing as it isn't x86-based. See how many normal home users would be interested in that.

It also remains to be seen how well the Cell performs as a desktop CPU. Seeing as Apple didn't bother with it despite it's excellent video encoding/decoding abilities, I would imagine it's really nothing special.

Re:The Problem is ... (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651215)

Cell performance is unimportant. Current CPU speeds are overblown beyond any reason, and simultaneously hogged by Windows, Gnome/KDE, OS X desktop, however that devil's called, etc. If the software is written from scratch or adapted from early versions, it will be faster than anything you've seen. (just compare features of MS Word 6 and MS Word 2007, then compare their requirements.) The problem is compatiblity. They MUST include some kind of webbrowser, which won't be MSIE-compatibile, they must include a media player which certainly won't play a number of non-official codecs, they will include lots of useless software. First wave of suckers will get burned on it, the rest, warned by word on mouth will avoid this "computer".

Cell is not x86 compilant. That kills it as "computer" CPU.

Re:The Problem is ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651091)

What does one do with "loose" market share? Will someone else tie it back down so there are no worries, or will it still be Sony's "loose" market share. There is an important difference between "lose" and "loose."

try this one on for size... (1)

lpangelrob (714473) | about 8 years ago | (#15650822)

The video game industry is like a game of soccer. Nintendo and Microsoft have staked Sony to a 5-0 lead after 10 minutes. It's a little early to be predicting a 6-5 loss, isn't it?

This is why I hate analogies... (1)

PhoenixOne (674466) | about 8 years ago | (#15650880)

From most of the soccer games I've seen, if one side has scored 5 points in the first 10 minutes, the other side is either totally out-classed or dead.

Re:This is why I hate analogies... (1)

Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) | about 8 years ago | (#15650976)

they can't be dead because they need to kick off at least after the first goal.

Re:This is why I hate analogies... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 8 years ago | (#15651020)

They just didn't appear on the soccer court yet. So 5-0 would be a rather poor result...

Re:try this one on for size... (3, Funny)

grogdamighty (884570) | about 8 years ago | (#15650898)

Your analogy would be true for in-generation comparisons. In this case, however, I think it would make more sense to say that Sony beat Microsoft to win the last World Cup (and Nintendo barely got out of the first round), but in this World Cup Microsoft has already won their first game of pool play while Sony and Nintendo are still prepping for their first game. Oh, and Sony keeps cutting players. ;)

Re:try this one on for size... (1)

Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) | about 8 years ago | (#15650999)

>Sony beat Microsoft to win the last World Cup (and Nintendo barely got out of the first round)

and twisting the analogy even further, Nintendo still managed to walk away with the trophy since they actually made a profit on consoles.

MS came second in the final but most of their players left the game as cripples.

Sony was pleased with their victory, and then Ronaldo-style sat back and got really fat.

Re:try this one on for size... (1)

AuMatar (183847) | about 8 years ago | (#15651022)

Except that Nintendo placed 2nd worldwide, not 3rd. America isn't the whole world. And MS lost 4 billion dollars to place 3rd.

Re:try this one on for size... (2, Informative)

Meddel (152734) | about 8 years ago | (#15651197)

Except that Nintendo placed 2nd worldwide, not 3rd.

Actually, in terms of total consoles sold, that's not correct. You can do the search for yourself, but here's one link to a wikipedia article on the console wars [wikipedia.org] which includes total worldwide sales numbers. The relevant set for your comment is:

  • PlayStation 2: 103.69 million
  • Gamecube: 20.85 million
  • Xbox: 24 million
In addition to that, the Xbox number is from December, while the PS2 and GC numbers are from March, suggesting that the Xbox number is actually higher than 24 million (though probably only slightly, because of the release of the Xbox360).

If you want to argue that Gamecube games are more fun, or that Nintendo makes more money on every console, that may be the case (I've no idea). But it's not correct to say that the Gamecube beat out the Xbox in the last generation of consoles.

Re:try this one on for size... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651237)

Did you actually just link to wiki for your source for worldwide console sales numbers???

Sorry to break any Xbox fans hearts but the Xbox is in last place worldwide and will remain there now that the console has been killed off by Microsoft.

The GameCube is somewhere in the 23 million range and continuing to grow, slowly, while the Xbox is only around 22 million.

Re:try this one on for size... (1)

Meddel (152734) | about 8 years ago | (#15651341)

Did you actually just link to wiki for your source for worldwide console sales numbers???

Sure, but not before I checked out their sources, which are listed at the bottom of the article. All you need to do to find out that your Xbox number is absolutely incorrect is go look at Microsoft's quarterly investor report from last quarter. It explicitly mentions having an installed base of 24 million Xbox (version 1) consoles (it's on slide 14 of the deck). So even if your GameCube number is right, Xbox is still ahead of them. Add to that the fact that Nintendo's quarterly investor report explicitly calls out having sold 20.85 million consoles over the life of the console through the end of March, and we're having an argument where you don't have any facts on your side.

You can find the slide deck for Microsoft's quarterly report in the wikipedia article, or you can get it straight from Microsoft [microsoft.com] . Likewise, you can get Nintendo's straight from Nintendo [nintendo.co.jp] .

I'm happy to have a discussion about which console is better, and which one will win the next generation, but being told that the sales numbers each company has made public are incorrect doesn't fly for me. You can argue the emotional side, or argue about the future, but arguing about facts that are in the past isn't productive.

Re:try this one on for size... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651384)

"go look at Microsoft's quarterly investor report from last quarter. It explicitly mentions having an installed base of 24 million Xbox"

Oh please!

Microsoft had the same type of inflated sales figures in their quarterly report earlier this year for the 360 that had no basis in verified 3rd party retail sales tracking companies. They had numbers listed that were not just a little high, they were double the actual retail sales numbers.

There is no independent retail tracking firm with Microsoft and the Xbox at 24 million sold worldwide.

Re:try this one on for size... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651473)

And Sony hired Bruce Arena for their coach, splitting him into three seperate entitites of idiocy.

remember to tag! (-1, Offtopic)

preppypoof (943414) | about 8 years ago | (#15650847)

and make sure to tag this one "zonked" as it is anti-ps3

Crouching nigger, hidden suspect. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650856)

That's what Sony is now.

Wouldn't surprise me.... (3, Interesting)

Rendo (918276) | about 8 years ago | (#15650868)

After refusing to use my Sony fanboyism, I objectively looked at the next-gen consoles. This article is unfortunately right. Unless Sony's mission is to make it seem so expensive now, then drop it $100 for each version by launch date, I can't see the PS remaining the #1 console. Until the price drops significantly over the next few years or they DO as I suggest and drop the price towards launch date to make a huge buzz, I see the Wii coming out on top.

Will Sony Break 120 Million PS3s? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650942)

That really is the only question remaining.

The Xbox 360 has pretty much flunked out of the race.

Massive hardware defects. Shitty graphics that are getting laughed at by pc reviewers. Sales worse than the first Xbox. Sales worse the Dreamcast. A system that is a nightmare for developers to code for.

All the talk about Nintendo changing the gaming world with the Wii now sounds silly with a machine that has crappy graphics like the 360 and a pointing device. So you swing swords in some games and you point at stuff in others. Ok.

Where are all of these 'innovative' Wii games that are going to make millions of people who have never bought a console before rush out and buy a Wii?

If if the PS3 didn't play games it would probably still outsell both the Wii and effectively dead in the market 360 now that both HD-DVD and the image constraint token have died. For $499 you get a 1080p BluRay movie player to go with the dropping like a rock in price 1080p TV sets.

And you get 1080p games.

And you backwards compatibility with virtually every PS1 and PS2 game you already own.

And you can webbrowse and other stuff right from your PS2.

And you get free online gaming - unlike the 200-250 dollars Microsoft forces you to pay just to play online.

The Wii and PS3 will go head to head in Japan, and the PS3 will still dominate in the US and Europe. Nintendo really needs to show gamers something wild before launch, because all that good will they generated over the first half of 2006 is slipping away as gamers are seeing how bad Wii games look. Otherwise, the Wii is going to be a console you enjoy fooling around with at the store or a friends house for a few minutes and then return home to your PS3.

Every single system selling exclusive Sony had that got them 105+ million PS2 sales is on the PS3 and as the pc game market continues to die outside of MMORPGs - Sony is even getting the pc developers(big whoop).

Re:Will Sony Break 120 Million PS3s? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15650990)

Hey, look it is the famous Sony Troll/Turfer! I was wondering how long it would take for you to come out of the woodwork...

Sony isn't worried (4, Insightful)

xswl0931 (562013) | about 8 years ago | (#15650969)

Didn't Sony themselves say that people will buy the PS3 even if there were no games out for it?

Re:Sony isn't worried (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651088)

Gee, perhaps because it will be the cheapest 1080p BluRay player on the market at 500 bucks?

Re:Sony isn't worried (1, Insightful)

Haeleth (414428) | about 8 years ago | (#15651333)

Gee, perhaps because it will be the cheapest 1080p BluRay player on the market at 500 bucks?

And I'm supposed to be so excited at the prospect of watching a handful of expensive BluRay disks (of things I doubtless have on DVD already) that I'm going to rush out and pay $500 for a PS3 (actually a lot more, since I live in rip-off Britain where the PS3 will be more like $800), when I don't even have an HDTV yet?

I think not. Anyway the time that HDTV market penetration is sufficiently high that a lot of people will want BluRay players and that movies are starting to appear on BluRay exclusively, the Chinese imports will be flooding the player market at a fraction of the cost of a PS3.

And that's assuming BluRay doesn't turn out to be the new Laserdisc.

Grief, if this is what they're betting the firm on, I'm glad I don't have any Sony stock.

What I don't understand... (5, Insightful)

Lave (958216) | about 8 years ago | (#15650984)

...Is why it's this expensive in the first place. If they had released a PS3 with exactly the same or slightly less power than the XBox 360 but at the same price - they would have cleaned up. There wider variety of games, and actual presence in Japan would have let them get a huge market share again.

Instead they say the same Lies they said when defeating the dreamcast, and release a slightly more powerful but not in any significant way PS3 to fight the XBox at pushing twice the price (in the UK) a year later.

But this time we know that Sony is dicking us around. It won't go well for them.

P.S. I haven't ignored the Wii - I just don't believe it relates to these two machines anymore. Thankfully - which will hopefully means more people will give nintendo a chance this time round.

Re:What I don't understand... (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651009)

Expensive CPU, expensive blu-ray... They just put lots of very "edge" hardware, meaning the assembly lines have to be paid back. Both PPC and Intel exist on the market for a long time, and incremental upgrades of each cause only small price jumps when new CPU is released. Cell is "first of a kind" and the first batch must be helluva expensive. Same about blu-ray. Produce 100,000 of blu-ray players is one thing in means of costs, build a factory to produce them is another.

Re:What I don't understand... (1)

Lave (958216) | about 8 years ago | (#15651086)

Expensive CPU, expensive blu-ray... They just put lots of very "edge" hardware, meaning the assembly lines have to be paid back.... Cell is "first of a kind" and the first batch must be helluva expensive...

I totally understand you - and of course you are correct. I don't want to start a stupid argument about stats, on fanboyism - but for all that extra cost there seems to be no significant gains. At best it will be the difference between the Xbox and PS2 but the other way around - and as this gen shows, that isn't a deal breaker.

Re:What I don't understand... (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651125)

and that's why PS3 is bound to fail :)

Actually, there IS a way how PS3 could still win: Several really GREAT games making it worth buying despite the price. But that's not going to happen. Ookami alone won't save PS3 and the rest of the games is crap.

Re:What I don't understand... (1)

MarioMax (907837) | about 8 years ago | (#15651211)

>> Produce 100,000 of blu-ray players is one thing in means of costs, build a factory to produce them is another. Likely they aren't building all-new factories for blu-ray players, but rather they're converting existing factories that already manufacture optical storage devices (IE: CD drives, DVD drives, etc) to handle a slightly different process. As for hardware encoders and ICs for processing data on these disks, if you know anything about semiconductor manufacturing, you'll know that they will be using pretty much the same manufacturing hardware to make Blu-Ray components as they are for existing optical media. All they do is change the process, not the manufacturing hardware. They might upgrade existing hardware, but odds are they will not create all new factories.

Re:What I don't understand... (1)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#15651268)

If that was just change of the process, the players wouldn't cost that much. The problem is that support for blu-ray requires quite a few new technologies, replacing or adding quite a few bits of new manufacturing hardware. Sure they will use classic motors etc, but the optics, the laser itself, the decoder hardware is all new and quite a bit beyond what was available before. Developing the blue laser alone was several years of heavy research.

Re:What I don't understand... (0)

dohzer (867770) | about 8 years ago | (#15651054)

They released the PS2 with less power than the Dreamcast, and they still "cleaned up", so who knows...

Lifetime (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 8 years ago | (#15651202)

The PS3 is supposed to be able to last longer then previous consoles. For that to happen you need a lot of power now so that in half a decade you won't be joke hardware.

Just compare consoles to PC's to see how quickly they become obsolete. During the hype before launch they consoles all seem like super machines capable of trashing the humble PC but as launch date nears the PC looks better and better and at launch a game PC will easily outperform a console.

The x-box showed it most clearly because it was a PC inside but I still remember people being all excited about a game called starfox and some pathetic 3D chip on the catridge while on the PC we were playing X-wing.

Even the 360 is vulnerable. Granted it is a powerhouse but a game like Oblivion proves that an expensive PC can compete. Right now. What is it going to be like in 2010?

The Cell is supposed to be more future proof. Offcourse wether that will work is anybodies guess. It seems unlikely but Sony probably hopes that by making a huge investment now it won't have to do so again in a couple of years. Developing a new console is risky and costly, if you can somehow afford to skip a generation you may very well trash the competition.

Sony hopes that when MS and Nintendo announce their next generation console their PS3 will still be able to compete. It is not that unreasonable an idea. The PS2 still competes with the 360 in some areas.

It is a gamble but what choice does Sony have? They can't afford to have generation after generation of moderate hits like MS, Sony does not have a cash cow to finance its console division.

Isn't this news a little old? (3, Funny)

The Real Toad King (981874) | about 8 years ago | (#15651016)

*looks back at Sony's E3 2006 conference* *Sees Ridge Racer, Giant Enemy Crabs, and 599 US dollars* I'm pretty sure we all came to this conclusion after that.

Zonk the anti-sony boy. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651018)

Hey Zonk, I would like to ask you to stop accepting non-informative nieuws on how Playstation 3 is going to fail and how much it sucks for a change!

Note to forecaster. (4, Interesting)

MrCopilot (871878) | about 8 years ago | (#15651059)

Stay tuned, next month we will formally unveil some of the actual numbers in our forecasts. This month we will just say that yes, Sony could easily go from first to worst in the video game market.

The only numbers I need to see are MSRP and release date. I concur with your assessment. Kiss my DVD loving ass BluRay.

As a PS2 and GameCube (Not to mention the PCs) owner (and potential XBMC buyer) I will not purchase the PS3. Let me count the reasons why.

RootKit
console Price
RootKit
MemoryStick
RootKit
MiniDisc
Betamax
Game Price
RootKit
RumbleLess Controller

About the only thing that interested me was linux. But damn I can build a pretty beefy linux box for the cost of just the console.

Oh, and did I mention the RootKit thing?

Re:Note to forecaster. (2, Interesting)

MrCopilot (871878) | about 8 years ago | (#15651139)

IGN Covers Japanese Developers on the PS3http://ps3.ign.com/articles/716/716047p1.html [ign.com]

Of course, the big question concerned price. 90.29% of the surveyed feel the PS3 is too pricey, compared to just 9.71% who feel that it's priced just right. One developer commented, "It's more expensive than my rent."

Wow, I need to get a summer home in Japan.

Re:Note to forecaster. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651172)

OMG!!!

Sony is teh DOOMED!!!

Some random fanboy on Slashdot just threw a hissyfit!!!

Re:Note to forecaster. (1)

MrCopilot (871878) | about 8 years ago | (#15651248)

Some random fanboy on Slashdot just threw a hissyfit!!!

Wiktionary : Noun hissyfit 1. (informal) An overreaction; a tantrum; a spell of shouting, anger or hysteria.

Stating my purchasing intentions and why can hardly be considered a hissyfit.

If I were alone in my opinion, you might have a point, look around at the current crop of PS2 owners and their plans regarding the PS3. Spend your cash how you like. Use Windows servers, buy Sony PS3s and Apple Ipods. Just don't expect sympathy. You GET what YOU pay for.

Re:Note to forecaster. (1)

moosesocks (264553) | about 8 years ago | (#15651580)

But damn I can build a pretty beefy linux box for the cost of just the console.


Screw that. you could buy a pretty beefy linux box for significantly less than the cost of the console, or buy a core-duo mac mini if you're so inclined, and take advantage of the software that comes with it.

You can't solve for both x and y in terms of neith (3, Insightful)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | about 8 years ago | (#15651075)

.er

There's more than these gaming factors that's going to contribute to how Sony places. The HDDVD market will influence this as well. One of the primary functions Sony seems to have planned for the PS3 is market penetration for its Blue-Ray player. They've sacraficed things like cheap price and possibly even earlier release to include the Blue-Ray player. If the HD format war doesn't flop out; it could become an important factor as those who what HD have to decide if the PS3 with Blue Ray or Microsoft with an accessory HD DVD (or internal HD DVD for the 360 if you think like Toshiba: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151889 [1up.com] ) This have anywhere from a huge to an insignificant effect on what the Console war. It really is more of a Great Home Entertainment War rather than a format war and a console war; they are well intertwined.

Or atleast, they will be. I speculate that the Format side of the GHE War will slog along in a prolonged sitzkrieg for a year or even more before it starts to pick up as more consumers finally migrate (slowly) along to HD. With the sitzkrieg on the format front, Sony's Blue Ray justification for its price will languish; costing it valuable ground against Microsoft's established console (which I might mention consumers may enjoy not having HD DVD costing them up front when they don't need it yet; they can upgrade on their own terms, possibly cheaper than buying Blue ray before they need it.) Once the Format front picks up, the Console side will invigorate to as Sony's console will likely have come down atleast some, becoming a more economic competitor. That's the Great Home Entertainment War solved for X in terms of Y.

But, as I said, you can only solve for X in terms of Y and vice versa. It's really anybodies guess what the effect Blue Ray and HD DVD will have. Then their is the Z factor...Nintendo. But, I've already talked about what possibilities Nintendo can have, both on consoles and on HD Formats http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=188332&cid=155 24741 [slashdot.org]

I disagree: market segmentation (-1, Troll)

NineNine (235196) | about 8 years ago | (#15651085)

I disagree. Sony won't be "last". What we're seeing is pretty clear market segmentation.

Nintendo is still for the kiddies. They have gimmicky controllers with a Fisher-Price look and feel. More importantly, most grown-ups don't want to play Mario anything (or Dragonball-Z, or Power Rangers, or whatever the popular Japanese crap is today). Nintendo focuses on twitch games that generally skip story altogether, or have some bizarre Japanese theme that most adults can't figure out. Geeks, please don't respond that you love Nintendo... we all know that many of you don't care about things like story. I'm talking about MOST adults.

The X-Box has moved in to the mainstream generic person arena. Regular lower and middle-class people of all kinds play the X-Box. They probably have the widest audience. XBox also caters heavily to the on-line gamer. The whole X-box online experience is great, but only a certain segment of gamer likes to play against hordes of 12 year olds, or has a group of gamer friends.

Sony has moved into a new market: the older gamer. People like myself that have been playing video games for 25+ years that now have disposable income. Also, people like me, who want more out of a video game than a twitch reflex also want a good story with movie level production value. I'm not interested in the typical Japanimation demon/dragon/kid hero story that is as embarrassingly bad as it is incomprehensible. I want good gameplay out of a game, of course, but I also want mind-blowing graphics and sound (The PS3 is supposed to be, unquestionably, the most powerful system). My game system gets plugged into a high-end amp and speaker system, and a high-end TV. I want all of that, packaged with a story that was written and created by somebody who speaks English (not Engrish), and some good Hollywood actors. I could care less about $600 or even $800 for a game box. And, I couldn't care less if the games are $70 each. It's worth it because 1. I've seen more games than most people have and 2. money really isn't an issue to me at this point. I just want the best.

On top of that, I think that Sony won't mind selling a few less units. I have a feeling that their profit margin is going to be significantly better than either MS or Nintendo with this generation.

I'm looking forward to the PS3.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (-1, Offtopic)

NineNine (235196) | about 8 years ago | (#15651149)

Oh, and this post will be moderated down by the kids who don't understand what in the hell I'm talking about.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

StocDred (691816) | about 8 years ago | (#15651279)

Or it will be modded up by elitist punks who are just as ill-informed as you are.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

MarioMax (907837) | about 8 years ago | (#15651186)

>> Nintendo is still for the kiddies. If that's so, then why are they making games that appeal to the entire spectrum of gamers, and non-gamers? Brain Age, Big Brain Academy, Nintendogs anyone?

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (2, Insightful)

Chosen Reject (842143) | about 8 years ago | (#15651219)

Was this sarcasm?

Geeks, please don't respond that you love Nintendo... we all know that many of you don't care about things like story. I'm talking about MOST adults.

Yes, geeks don't like story. That is why they don't bother to read not only Lord of the Rings, but also all the other Tolkien books, letters and journals to get more into Middle-Earth. That is why there is hardly any backstory to Warhammer. That would be why there are only a few Star Wars Expanded Universe books. That is why Dungeons & Dragons has so little source material. That is why the original Half-Life did so poorly.

[T]heir profit margin is going to be significantly better than either MS or Nintendo with this generation.

MS I can understand, maybe. Nintendo only sells their console for losses for a few months each generation, and at that usually only in the single digit losses -- as in $1-$9 per unit. Sony and MS both lose hundreds of dollars on each unit.

It's fine if you feel like you have to spend a lot of money on "mature" things to boost your ego. The rest of us will base fun on things other than "mature content" and price.

Geeks and story (1)

Intellectual Elitist (706889) | about 8 years ago | (#15651346)

> Yes, geeks don't like story. That is why they don't bother to read not only Lord of the Rings, but also all the other Tolkien books, letters and journals to get more into Middle-Earth. That is why there is hardly any backstory to Warhammer. That would be why there are only a few Star Wars Expanded Universe books. That is why Dungeons & Dragons has so little source material.

I think his point was that many geeks are more concerned with the trappings than the actual substance. Yes, they'll read Tolkien, but they'll just as happily read any piece of schlock with a dragon on the cover. They'll watch Blade Runner, but they'll also watch any crappy sci-fi movie that comes out. They'll listen to Nine Inch Nails, but they'll also listen to any old 60-minute techno mix borefest. As long as the same canvas and palette are used, the actual content is often irrelevant to them.

Re:Geeks and story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651550)

Exactly. The parent citing the EU for Star Wars confirms this. Most of that stuff is total crap and the geeks eat it up.

Re:Geeks and story (2, Insightful)

Chosen Reject (842143) | about 8 years ago | (#15651565)

Even so, what "most adults" cite as good story isn't any better. Witness the standard movie theater fare on any given day. There's usually not so much as story, as an opportunity to infuse some rudimentary plot devices in the quiet moments between sex and violence.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

burntsigil (898978) | about 8 years ago | (#15651556)

That is why Dungeons & Dragons has so little source material.
Yes, I can understand why you would think that. I mean, I would think that too if I deliberately ignored the hundreds of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms books.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

burntsigil (898978) | about 8 years ago | (#15651582)

Wait a minute. Were you just being sarcastic about the geeks not liking story bit? If so, then I retract my other statement.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (5, Insightful)

Lave (958216) | about 8 years ago | (#15651246)

I think it's fair to argue crass generalisations with simplistic anecdotes and opinion. So lets begin:

Nintendo is still for the kiddies. They have gimmicky controllers with a Fisher-Price look and feel.

The Lite and Wii do not look like a fisherprice toys. This only shows you bias.

More importantly, most grown-ups don't want to play Mario anything

My flatshare consists of mid-twenties adults, and my girlfriend, all of who aren't geeks (I hide my true self from them). And they almost only play games with Mario in. Mario Kart, Super Mario Bros, Wario Ware etc. And even games with silly little kiddy Monkeys like Monkey Ball. An Aside: Monkey Target is the most popular game I have even seen with actual Adults - I have seen it devour entire weekends of non-gamers.

I'm talking about MOST adults.

No. You. Are. Not.

Nintendo focuses on twitch games that generally skip story altogether, or have some bizarre Japanese theme that most adults can't figure out.

Fire Emblem, Zelda, Advance Wars, Geist, Metroid, Paper Mario (though that is a bit bizzare) all disagree. You also seem to forget that other people deveolpe for Nintendo consoles: Resident Evil 4, Phoenix Wright, Trauma Centre, Second Sight, Prince of Persia, Killer 7 and so on.

Also there seems to be a big theme of hating Japanese games through your post - but you do realise that Sony and most of it's "AAA" games are in fact Japanese?

The X-Box has moved in to the mainstream generic person arena

That doesn't even make sense. The XBox is a great machine - but you can't pretend it's in anyway mainstream - like I would be fool to pretend the gamecube was. But still I would expect mainstream to at least mean it also appealed to women, and men.

Also, people like me, who want more out of a video game than a twitch reflex also want a good story with movie level production value. I'm not interested in the typical Japanimation demon/dragon/kid hero story that is as embarrassingly bad as it is incomprehensible. I want good gameplay out of a game, of course, but I also want mind-blowing graphics and sound (The PS3 is supposed to be, unquestionably, the most powerful system). My game system gets plugged into a high-end amp and speaker system, and a high-end TV. I want all of that, packaged with a story that was written and created by somebody who speaks English (not Engrish), and some good Hollywood actors. I could care less about $600 or even $800 for a game box. And, I couldn't care less if the games are $70 each. It's worth it because 1. I've seen more games than most people have and 2. money really isn't an issue to me at this point. I just want the best.

I think that speaks for itself - get over yourself. Your awesome - we understand.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651447)

If you want the best, buy a computer. It's graphics are better and you can constantly upgrade when your hardware isn't the best.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | about 8 years ago | (#15651472)

I agree with your post. My friends and I (mid to late 20's) enjoy sitting around a gamecube with beers in hand playing the party games like Mario Party or Super Monkey Ball. Mario Kart is another favorite. The simplicity of these games and the way they are designed to maximize fun as a group are great. It's a console to enjoy with your friends.

I do far less console gaming now and I'm undecided on buying a next generation console, but I don't want to buy a console that only plays shortened versions of games that are available on my PC. I like the uniqueness of the Nintendo games.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

clevershark (130296) | about 8 years ago | (#15651295)

*Sony has moved into a new market: the older gamer. People like myself that have been playing video games for 25+ years that now have disposable income.*

I'm part of that demographic too. What Sony isn't counting on is the number of people who are tired of waiting for the PS3 to come out and are damned if they're going to pay $600 (plus $70+ per game) for the damn thing, especially for a company that's shown itself willing to infect their products with DRM that can be harmful to the hardware of their paying customers.

I for one don't plan on buying any of the 3 next-gen consoles. I don't think I'm alone in this.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651312)

You fucking piece of garbage.

No console gamer gives fuck about a scumbag like you.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (1)

gunnk (463227) | about 8 years ago | (#15651492)

I'd LIKE to buy one, but can't justify it at this point in my life. Like you, I'm part of the same demographic. First "video" game I played was a boxing game IN TEXT on a mainframe in the late 70's. My first computer was my Apple //c...

So now I'm late thirties, own my own home (which we recently gutted and had remodeled), am happily married, have a 10-year old daughter, and am trying to get a business of my own launched with my wife this summer.

Personally, I'd love a high-end cutting-edge console. However, while I could afford one (well, not this month...), I don't see spending this kind of money on it because what I DON'T have is enough time to play enough to justify that kind of cost. Maybe if that was my only hobby, but life's too short and interesting to spend that much of it inside a game.

I'll stick to a few games on my laptop. May not be cutting-edge gaming, but it's enough for an occasional distraction.

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651389)

Are you Paris Hilton? Seriously, you comment that Xbox is for lower and middle class people like there is something wrong with that if it was true, which it is not.

I also find your argument that you care about story and that is why you love the PS2 pretty funny. Since most RPGs on the PS2 are from Japan, engrish and nonsensical stories are a common event on that platform. Xbox story based games? KOTOR 1&2, Indigo Prophecy, Jedi Knight 1,2, etc. Jade Empire, one of the finest western (i know its ironic considering the content) RPGs ever made (fans of Planescape forgive me). Finally, if you can afford $800 a console, good for you. Stop flaunting it. There are a lot of people out there who have crappy jobs and circumstances and don't have disposable income. The little extra they have is a serious investment in escapism for them and its important that they get value out of what they can afford. Im fine with the PS3 costing whatever, because I can admit I'm a Xbox fan.

And BTW, I've been playing video games for 28+ years, so I own your elitist ass!

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651524)


*cough* wanker! *cough*

Re:I disagree: market segmentation (2, Insightful)

identity0 (77976) | about 8 years ago | (#15651608)

I see you've been modded "troll" already, but I'll just assume you genuinely hold those opinions.

First, on the current generation: I don't get why you think X-Box has "moved in to the mainstream generic person arena." That would be the PS2. The X-box has carved out a niche of FPS players and American RPG fans, and is struggling with other genres. The PS2 is what most people think of when they think "video game machine" these days. The PS1 basically invented the concept of a console as a generic appliance for adults, and the PS2 succesfully extended that franchise. The PS2 has much, much higher sales rates, it's demographics are much wider, and has a wider selection of games.

Nintendo is the console for people who don't mind playing video games, and don't need the words "combat" or "warrior" in the game's title. That's probobly why they have higher sales in Japan than in the States.

Your argument about being an "adult demographic" with lots of money to throw around sounds a lot like what Microsoft were saying when they were hyping the X-box rpior to launch. I suppose it's not suprising that you like both PS3 and X-box, then. But that strategy worked horribly for Microsoft, who found out that:
1) There aren't that many rich adults who want to spend big bucks on games, especially when the PS2 can grab the cheap/simple market and the PC can grab the expensive/complex end of the market.
2) Kids actually have more buying power than adults because they can get their parents to buy games for them. It's way easier to nag your mom into buying a machine than convincing your wife/gf that it was a great idea to get one. Plus, there are way more kids who want to play video games than there are adults who do.
3) If your consoles are going to sell fewer units(because of a smaller market of adults), you need to either sell more games per person, or increase the price per game. The former you can't do because game-playing adults often have less time to play games than kids, and the latter ends up restricting your audience to richer folks or pushing them to cheaper consoles(PS2). Oh, and smaller market = less developer interest.

For above reasons, the X-box's original marketing strategy failed, and now they have to play second fiddle to Sony. Interestingly, Sony seems intent to follow them with the PS3. If it weren't for the terrible impression left by the X-box(especially in Japan) and anticipation of the Wii/Ps3, I suspect X-box 360 would be able to grab the Ps2's spot as the 'generic' console of that generation.

Oh, and given the cost of creating games these days, it's quite possible that there won't be much of a difference between XB360 and PS3 games. Its really takes a lot of skilled artists and programmers to take modern consoles to the limit of their graphics, and it may not be worth going to the PS3's capabilities past the XB360's.

Sony's running by the wrong strategy (2, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | about 8 years ago | (#15651096)

What are the strong points of the PS3?

Good hardware
Compatibility with the PS2
BluRay

Now, looking back to the PS2, we see similar factors, and the PS2 was a huge success. But with a very important difference: The PS2 was WAY cheaper than the (inflation adjusted) equivalent of 600 bucks.

The target audience for a consumer device costing 600$ is very distinct from one costing about 200-300. Instead of the young players market, you'd have to target hardcore gamers and people who can and will spend 600 without too much effort. And most of all, the PS3 will need its "Halo": A killer game, a 'must have', a signature title that makes you WANT to buy that PS3.

BluRay is cute, but useless as a selling point. First of all, the format war is far from being decided. And, let's be honest folks, how many of you got the PS2 as a cheap replacement for a DVD player? I know nobody who has a PS2 and no other means to play DVDs, more importantly, better (especially considering sound quality) alternatives? So BluRay will certainly NOT be a selling argument, unless there are no BluRay-only players out there by the time the PS3 comes along that are cheaper than 600. And, frankly, I would NOT get a player that only plays one format (I wouldn't get a player for either of those DRMcrippled formats, but let's assume I'm a movie junkie for now). Murphy's law predicts that, when you side with one of the format contestants, you side with the wrong one. So people will play it save and wait for players that can deal with BluRay and HDDVD.

Without the 'must have' game, people will stick with the PS2 'til the PS3 is cheap, if they already have PS2 games. If they don't, they might turn for Nintendo (if they don't want to spend much money) or the X360 (if they do). Price is definitly no selling argument for the PS3, and the X360 is already out. If someone didn't have PS2 games and wanted a top level console, they already bought a X360.

The 'geek factor' does also not play in favor of Sony. Too often the news about Sony are not really geek friendly, their MD-Recorders (that couldn't export the recorded sounds sensibly), rootkits in audio-CDs, not really something that works in their favor. Sony is about to become 'uncool', too. And I've noticed a significant decline in quality over the last few years.

So the only chance I see for the PS3 is a 'killer application', something that makes you want a PS3. Without, I'd guess people would turn to Nintendo or Microsoft.

Re:Sony's running by the wrong strategy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15651115)

>Now, looking back to the PS2, we see similar factors, and the PS2 was a huge success. But with a very important difference: The PS2 was WAY cheaper than the (inflation adjusted) equivalent of 600 bucks.

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnn...

$499 for a PS3 that plays 1080p movies and games.

Go away idiot.

PS3 killer games (1)

Intellectual Elitist (706889) | about 8 years ago | (#15651234)

> And most of all, the PS3 will need its "Halo": A killer game, a 'must have', a signature title that makes you WANT to buy that PS3.

I can think of two off the top of my head that are PS3 exclusives and potential system sellers:

Metal Gear Solid 4
Virtua Fighter 5

...and I'm sure there will be more.

Re:PS3 killer games (2, Insightful)

Incoherent07 (695470) | about 8 years ago | (#15651376)

It's instructive here to note that those two games are the 4th and 5th in their respective series. One is not really known as a multiplayer game, and the other is a fighting game, a genre that's been slowly dying since the mid-'90s. This is not how you make the PS3's Halo.

Of course, I say this knowing that the easiest way to kill off the PS3 would be for Bungie to release Halo 3 the same day the PS3 launches, although I'm not sure if it'll happen or not.

Re:PS3 killer games (0)

Manmademan (952354) | about 8 years ago | (#15651468)

It's instructive here to note that those two games are the 4th and 5th in their respective series. One is not really known as a multiplayer game, and the other is a fighting game, a genre that's been slowly dying since the mid-'90s. This is not how you make the PS3's Halo. Of course, I say this knowing that the easiest way to kill off the PS3 would be for Bungie to release Halo 3 the same day the PS3 launches, although I'm not sure if it'll happen or not.

Could it be that they're the 4th and 5th in their respective series because millions of people buy and enjoy both series, guaranteeing a solid install base on launch? I can't see how that could POSSIBLY benefit Sony at all, no sir.

Bungie releasing Halo 3 the same day as the Ps3 launch will have Zero effect on Ps3 sales. Neither Halo showed up on the Ps2 and it still broke records while Microsoft struggled to match the Gamecube in sales. What's more likely to still be on store shelves two weeks after launch? Ps3's? or copies of Halo? anyone seriously considering both will pick up the Ps3 first, and Halo second.

Re:Sony's running by the wrong strategy (1)

TheFlamingoKing (603674) | about 8 years ago | (#15651314)

I know LOTS of people who only have a PS2 for their DVD player (unless you count a notebook computer, not exactly the same as a standalone player.) I was one of them for a long time, until I got a DivX capable standalone, and the DivX was the only reason to get it.

You think people in Japan have room for a DVD player and a game console?

That is one of the big reasons PS2 has the market penetration it currently enjoys. It used to be $200 for both systems, but an XBox does not play DVD without an additional $30 investment. I have at least 3 pals that bought the PS2 over the XBox because they thought it was stupid to have to pay more money for DVD.

You notice they got rid of that on the XBox 360? I wonder why?

Re:Sony's running by the wrong strategy (3, Insightful)

Manmademan (952354) | about 8 years ago | (#15651383)

What are the strong points of the PS3?

Good hardware
Compatibility with the PS2
BluRay


You've missed the biggest selling point. Every title/developer that made the Ps1 and Ps2 the most successful consoles of all time is still on board for the Ps3...nobody's jumped ship and there are more exclusives than you think. If you enjoyed FF, Gran turismo, Metal Gear, Shin Megami Tensei, Shadow of the Colossus, etc...guess which system you have to buy to keep playing the games you enjoy? for a LOT of people (especially if those people are in japan) there IS no alternative to the Ps3, since certain franchises and genres just won't show up on the 360 or the Wii.




The target audience for a consumer device costing 600$ is very distinct from one costing about 200-300. Instead of the young players market, you'd have to target hardcore gamers and people who can and will spend 600 without too much effort. And most of all, the PS3 will need its "Halo": A killer game, a 'must have', a signature title that makes you WANT to buy that PS3.


Prices come down over time. The Ps3 is being launched aiming squarely at the early adopters and hardcore fans that were paying $600 and $700 for a system on ebay, only many, many more of them as sony's install base is substantially larger. As price drops occur, more casual fans will come on board. This is the way console launches ALWAYS go.



also, the Ps3 doesn't NEED a "halo." Microsoft had TWO and they were still utterly, totally crushed last round. The titles they DO have (or are expected to have) are more than sufficient.



BluRay is cute, but useless as a selling point. First of all, the format war is far from being decided. And, let's be honest folks, how many of you got the PS2 as a cheap replacement for a DVD player? I know nobody who has a PS2 and no other means to play DVDs, more importantly, better (especially considering sound quality) alternatives?


BluRay is hardly useless to those like myself for whom DVD is insufficient on our television sets. for me and other early adopters I'm curious to see what it can do. As for the Ps2, I was in retail at the time it launched stateside in 2000 and there were a LOT of people who used the Ps2 as their primary (or only) DVD player. As player prices came down out of the stratosphere and into the $99 and $50 range, this became less common. Plenty of houses have 2 or 3 DVD players including consoles.



Blu-Ray won't go exactly the same way as it's in a different stage of its lifecycle than DVD was when it launched, but even those who have never heard of it but might want a Ps3 will more than likely buy or rent a disc just to see what the fuss is about if they have access to an HDTV. The Ps3 exists just as much to push the Blu Ray format as vice versa.



Without the 'must have' game, people will stick with the PS2 'til the PS3 is cheap, if they already have PS2 games. If they don't, they might turn for Nintendo (if they don't want to spend much money) or the X360 (if they do). Price is definitly no selling argument for the PS3, and the X360 is already out. If someone didn't have PS2 games and wanted a top level console, they already bought a X360.


Price isn't usually an issue for early adopters ESPECIALLY during holiday season, as the buying frenzies on ebay for the Ps2 and 360 prove. Those machines were going for easily double MSRP. And if someone enjoyed the games the Ps2 had to offer and wanted a "top level" console, they sure as hell wouldnt just "buy a 360" as the franchises they like aren't likely to appear there. (especially, once again, if said gamers happen to live in japan)

The 'geek factor' does also not play in favor of Sony. Too often the news about Sony are not really geek friendly, their MD-Recorders (that couldn't export the recorded sounds sensibly), rootkits in audio-CDs, not really something that works in their favor. Sony is about to become 'uncool', too. And I've noticed a significant decline in quality over the last few years.


Feel free to turn off the PC and venture off of slashdot for a while. The VAST majority of Sony's audience are NOT Geeks. Geeks don't make games like Madden and GTA top selling franchises year after year. Casual gamers also have no idea what a rootkit is and couldn't care less if they did. As for decline in quality, Sony's Bravia sets were flying off the shelves when they were introduced and still are...and current buzz is that they're excellent sets. So any rumors of a quality drop certainly haven't appeared to affect the buying mainstream.



Sony is coming off of their second consecutive massive victory in the console area with the #1 and #2 most successful consoles in history. They have a nearly limitless stable of proven franchises on board, and have hit the point where "Playstation" is a household word. On the other hand, Nintendo has been steadily losing market share (in the console area...I'm aware the GBA and DS are quite successful) since the SNES launched and Microsoft is just coming off of losing $4 Billion on their initial venture into the industry with no signs of gaining ANY marketshare almost a year after launch. Of the three players involved this time around, Sony isn't the one that has to worry about coming in last place.



Blu-ray will win this battle (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | about 8 years ago | (#15651497)

I believe that blu-ray will win this battle, even if the PS3 has the most dramatic failure in consoles' history.

The reason is not movies, even DVD is good enough for that. The huge capacity is meaningless in a movie, if human eyes can barely perceive the difference. We are a decade away from cheap HD TV sets. For other reasons is not better to have blu-ray in a console than HD-DVD or simply DVDs. The extra content is just more cut-scenes.

I see Blu-ray winning this battle by replacing DVD drives in computers. 25GB vs 14GB (single layer) is a big selling point for a computer writable medium. With Apple backing blu-ray we will see MacBooks with blu-ray/dvd/cd superdrives.

And with Apple Macbooks using blu-ray, all slashdots fanboys will declare the victory of blu-ray.

However, this means nothing for PS3. Without a big price cut, the PS3 will really lose.

Or even better, sell the PS3 at $1000, but include the HD TV set!

Stop beating around the bush (1, Interesting)

munehiro (63206) | about 8 years ago | (#15651282)

PS3 is dead even before hitting the market. There's no "most wanted" games, no price slicing, no Blue-Ray, no "it's-not-a-console-it's-a-computer".

PS3 is too expensive, the performances are worse than xbox360, there's no cool factor, there's no service, and they are real assholes totally stomping the buyer-rights and the "do-no-harm" philosophy.

And while i'm writing it, I'm really, really angry, because in just 2 years of bad technological choices, Sony is beaten to death by Microsoft, a company producing 20 years of bad technology, harming buyers and competitors, and stomping rights with niceties like DRM, proprietary formats, abuse of monopoly.

This is what I really hate.

There's only 1 way I'll buy a PS3 (1)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | about 8 years ago | (#15651602)

If they can make some seriously fun MMO. Maybe something like Planetside, but with more depth. That price point is too high when I can just retro game all day long. I'm trying to beat Angband with an Ironman character of every class, that should keep me busy for a few years.

The second gaming crash... (1)

Icepole4 (978286) | about 8 years ago | (#15651639)

Unfortunately I think the PS3 will signal the second crash of the gaming industry. The playstation is THE gaming console right now, it's the industry leader and almost everybody has one. For a lot of gamers playstation is all they know when it comes to gaming, with the $600 price tag of the PS3 many casual gamers will not buy Wii's or 360s as most of us think...they won't buy anything and ultimately lose interest in gaming. Putting sales in the crapper and bringing the industry to its knees once again. Love Sony or Hate them, if they aren't at least moderately successful this gen we may all suffer.
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