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Cambridge Breached the Great Firewall of China

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the didn't-work-against-the-mongol-spammers-either dept.

250

Darren Rayes writes to mention a ZDNet article on Cambridge academics' claims that they have breached the great firewall of China. They also claim that by misusing the firewall they can launch DDoS attacks against IP addresses behind the wall. From the article: "The IDS uses a stateless server, which examines each data packet both going in and out of the firewall individually, unrelated to any previous request. By forging the source address of a packet containing a 'sensitive' keyword, people could trigger the firewall to block access between source and destination addresses for up to an hour at a time."

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250 comments

Submit details! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656672)

With enough people working on it, we can temporarily block the entire country from the rest of the Internet. How's that for a fourth of July?

Re:Submit details! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656872)

omg no please don't loose your ferocious smelly nerd-army on your defenseless country!

Congratulations (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656675)

Well done on writting a 'how-to' on pointers to make the firewall better. Im sure people out there new these things, and used them to their advantage. Now all holes will be plugged and even more censorship will rein in China. You have now had your 15mins of fame.

Re:Congratulations (4, Insightful)

Trigun (685027) | about 8 years ago | (#15656682)

Better they do it from the outside then the Chinese government find the guys doing it from the inside.

Re:Congratulations (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656777)

Well done on writting a 'how-to' on pointers to make the firewall better. Im sure people out there new these things, and used them to their advantage. Now all holes will be plugged and even more censorship will rein in China. You have now had your 15mins of fame.

Insecurity by obscurity.

www.PeenieWallie.com [peeniewallie.com]

Re:Congratulations (5, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 8 years ago | (#15656806)

Well done on writting a 'how-to' on pointers to make the firewall better.
Actually, this flaw is inherent to the design of the great firewall.

It's not something that is trivial to fix. Others can do a better job of explaining why, but for now, suffice it to say that it'd require a significant effort on the part of the Chinese Gov't.

Maybe it can be fixed in The Great Firewall of China v2.0

Re:Congratulations; Same old tired argument. (4, Interesting)

posterlogo (943853) | about 8 years ago | (#15656891)

Well done on writting a 'how-to' on pointers to make the firewall better. Im sure people out there new these things, and used them to their advantage. Now all holes will be plugged and even more censorship will rein in China. You have now had your 15mins of fame.

This is the same old tired argument we hear here on Slashdot over and over again. Expose the flaws and you either 1) alert the hackers on how to expose them or 2) Allow the admins to patch them. It's funny how depending on your political ideology, people will swing either way. How about a consistent opinion in favor of revealing flaws? Those who favor security by obscurity deserve neither.

Re:Congratulations; Same old tired argument. (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | about 8 years ago | (#15656962)

"How about a consistent opinion in favor of revealing flaws? Those who favor security by obscurity deserve neither."

It's entirely proper for these two arguments to be inconsistent, because they have completely opposite goals. Neither is favoring security by obscurity.

Those who want exposure of flaws want security, and know that security by obscurity never works.
Those who favor insecurity - and in the case of the Chinese firewall that's a completely understandable desire, know that insecurity by obscurity always works.

Re:Congratulations; Same old tired argument. (2, Interesting)

laffer1 (701823) | about 8 years ago | (#15657111)

There's a reason people never agree on security through obscurity. Hell you've generalized that people believing in it don't like public disclosure. I personally feel it can deter script kiddies as their scripts occasionally look for banners, etc. There are cases it can help. Not everyone is smart enough to use a program to determine OS type, or other fingerprinting strategies.

I think these researchers just proved once again that nothing is uncrackable. The idea of security is similar to the titanic. Its unsinkable until everyone owns your box. Don't make fun of the security through obscurity camp.. even if it can be futile at least we try something. (i also patch like crazy, run firewalls, review logs, etc)

I don't mind public disclosure as long as the company gets time to patch the product (up to 30 days). Since we're talking about china, well zero day is fine.

Re:Congratulations; Same old tired argument. (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | about 8 years ago | (#15657012)

How about a consistent opinion in favor of revealing flaws?

So you want 100,000 unrelated people to come to a consensus? I can't get 10 people to agree where to go to lunch.

Legal action against Cambridge? (5, Insightful)

zanderredux (564003) | about 8 years ago | (#15656677)

Isn't Cambridge deliberately creating an opportunity for the Chinese government to prosecute them?

What about those inside China using those exploits for legitimate ends?

Is Cambridge indirectly helping the Chinese government to fix firewall issues?

Are Cambridge researchers after fame at the expense of the freedom of the Chinese people?

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (2, Informative)

ironwill96 (736883) | about 8 years ago | (#15656703)

The sad thing is, they're not indirectly helping them - they ARE helping them. In TFA they state that they have reported their findings to the Chinese Computer Emergency Response Team. I assume these are the goons in charge of government censorship over there. I'm surprised after all the flak that Yahoo has caught for their chinese censorship assistance, that Cambridge would leap off that cliff as well by helping China to further block any ways for citizens to bypass the firewall and obtain information about "sensitive" topics. It really bothers me that so many in the U.S. who claim to value freedom so much (who are out blowing up fireworks today to celebrate such - fireworks mostly bought from China I might add), will help a country who values freedom so little.

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656750)

The University of Cambridge is an English university, not an American company, you (obligatory) insensitive clod!

(It's "obligatory" because it's the only way insightful anonymous coward comments get modded up.)

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (5, Informative)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | about 8 years ago | (#15656764)

Cambridge would leap off that cliff as well by helping China to further block any ways for citizens to bypass the firewall and obtain information about "sensitive" topics. It really bothers me that so many in the U.S. who claim to value freedom so much (who are out blowing up fireworks today to celebrate such - fireworks mostly bought from China I might add), will help a country who values freedom so little.

FYI, Cambridge isn't a U.S. university.

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (2, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 8 years ago | (#15656871)

Not that it's at all relevant, but Cambridge is very buddy buddy with MIT

http://www.cambridge-mit.org/cgi-bin/default.pl [cambridge-mit.org]

/Just showing that they both have very smart technical people learning/researching there.

This is not helping China (2, Interesting)

Zeinfeld (263942) | about 8 years ago | (#15656986)

How in the name of @#$(@$#* is knowing how to circumvent the great firewall going to do any good if you don't tell anyone about it.

This is not helping China. They know how their firewall works, they built it. They also know where Cambridge University is (unlike half the readers of Slashdot).

Slashdot is helping China by bringing the article to their attention.

This has been circulating in the security blogs for a week now. There are basically two schools of thought. One is that we might fix the IP stack to ignore/filter out RST packets. The second is that we might make it easier to turn on SSL.

Rather than monkey about with changing the protocols to ignore RST we would probably do better turning on SSL encryption on Wikipedia &ct with some cheap domain authentication certs.

Re:This is not helping China (2, Funny)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | about 8 years ago | (#15657130)

One guy makes a dumb post and now half of slashdot's readers are saying that half of slashdot's reader's don't know where Cambridge is?

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (1)

ironwill96 (736883) | about 8 years ago | (#15656901)

I was thinking Cambridge, MA (where MIT is located and right next door to Harvard), my bad :-P University of Cambridge is of course in England. Still, they should be ashamed of themselves for helping China - England claims to value freedom as well IIRC.

They're supposed to be helping them (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656875)

I'm presenting a paper on Ignoring the Great Firewall of China at the 6th Workshop on Privacy Enhancing Technologies being held here in Cambridge this week. It turns out that this censorship system works by sending reset packets to each end of the connection, rather than blocking packets. If they don't dutifully close, but just discard the packets, the firewall is completely ineffective. More about this in the paper and in my security group blog posting. [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/]

Their research is concerned with DRM ass hat tactics and such...pity!

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (1)

stonecypher (118140) | about 8 years ago | (#15656897)

Cambridge ... in the U.S.

You're a navigator by blood, aren't you? Wrong side of the planet, by the way.

<ryoga class="satire/obscure">WHERE THE FUCK IS JAPAN?</ryoga>

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (-1, Redundant)

fdiskit (958459) | about 8 years ago | (#15656714)

Wow, I guess they don't call it The People's Republic of Cambridge [boston-online.com] for nothing! But seriously, folks . . . whatever happened to TriangleBoy?

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (5, Informative)

jabuzz (182671) | about 8 years ago | (#15656798)

Wrong Cambridge, Cambridge Univeristy (fourth oldest in the world) is in the South East of England, and not in North America. Full marks you have displayed a typically parochial American outlook on the World.

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (2, Interesting)

arivanov (12034) | about 8 years ago | (#15656990)

This will make the Chinese government mandates antispoofing by all ISPs. Which actually will be quite a good thing. As a result at least one country in the world will mostly drop off the D.O.S. map. Good thing all around actually.

Now an interesting Cambridge related question is how it relates to the Great Firewall of Britain, aka Clean Feed (TM) which the dictatorship of el presidente de partida Laborista Antonio Bliar has forced most ISPs to implement (in the name of the children and terrorism of course). Cambridge did some very good research in the failings of that system as well. It will be interesting to see if the same D.O.S. can be applied there. If that is the case there will be loads of fun all around in the days to come and some very Chinese measures being implemented by the Wall Street mandarins.

Re:Legal action against Cambridge? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656715)

I don't think the Chinese government could sue an English company using the English legal system any more than an American company or organization could sue a Chinese company through the Chinese legal system.

six of one... (4, Insightful)

Armchair Dissident (557503) | about 8 years ago | (#15656850)

...half a dozen of the other.

Certainly TFA suggests that the DoS attack could be used against chinese government computers, but this could also be used against chinese citizens. An exploit is, after all, an exploit. So I would suggest that in the case of the DoS attack, reporting it to the appropriate people - in this case the Chinese authorities - was the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, in this case, the very flaw that allows a DoS against machines within China also permits those inside the firewall to ignore the resets sent back, so by reporting the DoS, they've also reported how the censorship can be circumvented. (or, by discovering the censorship circumvention they've unfortunately stumbled upon a DoS attack).

In this case, I really don't think that there is a One True Answer.

Mongolians? (5, Funny)

veinard (469297) | about 8 years ago | (#15656683)

Weird, I didn't know there were many mongolians at cambridge...

Re:Mongolians? (1, Redundant)

MustardMan (52102) | about 8 years ago | (#15656785)

It must be a shitty wall! Fucking mongolians always knock down my shitty wall.

Stateless? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656685)

How exactly does a stateless IDS block connections for up to an hour? Are there other components to the firewall I'm not aware of, or does stateless mean something else these days?

Re:Stateless? (5, Informative)

Just Some Guy (3352) | about 8 years ago | (#15656700)

How exactly does a stateless IDS block connections for up to an hour?

Stateless != ruleless. For example, you could use OpenBSD's "pf" to create a stateless firewall that references an external rules file, then use a cron job to rewrite that rules file once an hour. That might be a pretty reasonable approach if you're filtering billions of packets per hour and can't afford to track state for each connection.

Re:Stateless? (1)

karmatic (776420) | about 8 years ago | (#15656743)

Perhaps the IDS is stateless, and the firewall itself (i.e. iptables) is not.

Re:Stateless? (1)

Duhavid (677874) | about 8 years ago | (#15656773)

Perhaps they are using the Political definition?

Will the Chinese prosecute... (1)

future assassin (639396) | about 8 years ago | (#15656702)

and try to have the law breakers extradited?

I can think of one useful application for this (2, Interesting)

Ant P. (974313) | about 8 years ago | (#15656704)

An "active" spamfilter that automatically shoots down chinese spammers. The IP gets blocked off for an hour and can't spam anyone at all outside china.

Of course at the same time I can think of a million abusive applications for this...

Actually it would have to work the other way round (4, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | about 8 years ago | (#15656732)

As far as I understood it, the point is that the wall blocks out IPs outside of China that try to send "sensitive" data into China.

Not a big deal either. Just send the IP Address of any mailserver you want to protect with a packet containing something "sensitive".

Re:Actually it would have to work the other way ro (1)

slimey_limey (655670) | about 8 years ago | (#15656754)

Your signature fits so well with that comment.

So you mean it works as a spam filter as well, assuming that somebody sends spam with "Falun" in it?

(so many blocked words in this page... but I'm in Seattle.)

Re:Actually it would have to work the other way ro (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 8 years ago | (#15656788)

Well, it would suffice if you sent from the mail server a reply to the spamming IP Address containing any 'sensitive' keywords, if I got that right. Of course, if it's less traffic than the flood of RSTs you get from the firewall is a different matter...

Solution? (4, Insightful)

QuantumFTL (197300) | about 8 years ago | (#15656705)

I wonder what the chinese government would do if groups of individuals from around the world used techniques like this to DDoS the firewall. I highly doubt that they could get their population to accept them completely shutting off access to the outside world, and a stateful firewall would be considerably more expensive, assuming they wanted to keep their same (terrible) level of performance.

What does slashdot think about this?

Re:Solution? (2, Insightful)

hoggoth (414195) | about 8 years ago | (#15656759)

> I highly doubt that they could get their population to accept them completely shutting off access to the outside world

Their population accepts a lot worse than losing Internet access.
I don't think a government that rolls tanks over dissidents is going to worry too much about cutting off their Internet.

Tiannamen Where? (2, Interesting)

Silver Sloth (770927) | about 8 years ago | (#15656766)

I highly doubt that they could get their population to accept them completely shutting off access to the outside world

Er, exactly which China are we talking about here. If the population don't accept things then they get run over by tanks.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (2, Interesting)

QuantumFTL (197300) | about 8 years ago | (#15656797)

Well, protesting is one way to show that you "do not accept" something - that doesn't seem to work well in China. However, it's clear that the people in charge of China want the population to go along with their edicts, and furthermore think that it is a good thing. The PRC spends a lot of money on propaganda, etc, so that the population is kept under control. With 1.3 billion people, I'd say that's a good investment. Screwing up their internet connection to the "outside world" (or at least whatever isn't offensive) would set back those efforts significantly, especially in the growing middle class.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (1)

iminplaya (723125) | about 8 years ago | (#15657162)

However, it's clear that the people in charge of China want the population to go along with their edicts, and furthermore think that it is a good thing. The PRC spends a lot of money on propaganda, etc, so that the population is kept under control.

Just how do you say "FOX" in Chinese?

Re:Tiannamen Where? (2, Interesting)

jeffstar (134407) | about 8 years ago | (#15656915)

I've always wondered what made this guy [mcfetridge.com] so brave

Re:Tiannamen Where? (5, Interesting)

Joe Decker (3806) | about 8 years ago | (#15656934)

Me too, it was an incredible symbol. The story of one of the photographers who captured that image [bbc.co.uk] is pretty amazing as well.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (1)

RWerp (798951) | about 8 years ago | (#15656937)

The foreign TV cameras. If it were not for them, the tanks would simply not stop.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657193)

Too bad we don't have cameramen catching the real action in Iraq. And if they are there, too bad our chicken-shit press won't cover it. Bravery indeed.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (1)

chord.wav (599850) | about 8 years ago | (#15657154)

He was on heroine, or smoked, or had a big pair of Adamantium(tm) balls.

Re:Tiannamen Where? (1)

nsayer (86181) | about 8 years ago | (#15656992)

Er, exactly which China are we talking about here.

Obviously not the Republic of China [wikipedia.org] . Must be that other one.

Re:Solution? (1)

The_REAL_DZA (731082) | about 8 years ago | (#15656804)

"...I highly doubt that they could get their population to accept them completely shutting off access to the outside world..."


Hey, it's happened before (Google for "Qing dynasty", "isolationism"), of course, it led to the Opium Wars and China's eventual sub-division...Who knows what might've been if they'd just been a little more like the ancestors in the "trade and diplomacy" departments -- maybe I'd have learned Chinese at four instead of (trying and mostly failing) at forty...

Fragmentation (1)

slimey_limey (655670) | about 8 years ago | (#15656717)

If the firewall looks for keywords in individual packets, wouldn't ruthless packet fragmentation (i.e. breaking up the TCP stream into many, many minimum-size packets) work at getting around it? That way no one keyword would be left whole.

Re:Fragmentation (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | about 8 years ago | (#15656763)

probably, but then you get executed when you get caught

Re:Fragmentation (2, Informative)

Tontoman (737489) | about 8 years ago | (#15656769)

Most firewalls will reassemble fragmented packets in order to perform content analysis. How to do it is in the TCP/IP RFC's.

Re:Fragmentation (1)

slimey_limey (655670) | about 8 years ago | (#15656802)

I mean have your TCP stack send small IP packets (4 bytes MSS, as AC below says). They won't be fragmented, but they will be breaking up the text into really small bits. Sorry for calling it "fragmentation", as that was inaccurate.

Re:Fragmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656783)

No, not that way. Set your TCP MSS to 24. (= 4 bytes of payload per packet). IP packets will not be fragmented, so the firewall does not reassembly.

Re:Fragmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657053)

Now think a bit further.
What if f.ex. CNN had a firewall that whould fragment packets sent to china in the middle of critical words?
That firewall could even try to adapt to new keywords by analyzing packets that provoke RST packets.
The current list of blocked words could be made public on a centralized server for other firewalls.
Received RST packets are then discarded, so that chinese surfers only have to worry about their side.

A HTTP solution is possible as well. Think of chunked transfer encoding. Anyone want to modify Apache?

Wait a sec... HTTP compression should make all those bad words go away. Every current browser handles deflate/zlib compression transparently. Did nobody think about this workaround before?

Ok, if it was for CNN, they would soon switch to manually blocking the complete IP address range..

I wonder... (3, Interesting)

mike260 (224212) | about 8 years ago | (#15656718)

...what would happen if I sent some packets from google.com to google.cn, containing words like 'democracy' and 'Falun Gong'.

Re:I wonder... (3, Interesting)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | about 8 years ago | (#15656770)

Yes because a Chinese firewall is going to black English words right? They'll block the Chinese words obviously.

Re:I wonder... (5, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 8 years ago | (#15656842)

http://www.google.cn/search?q=Falun [google.cn]

Falun Gong Is a Cult
www.china-embassy.org

Research Society of Falun Dafa and the Falun Gong organization under its control are held to be illegal
english.people.com.cn

Fifteen Falun Gong Cult followers attempted to sabotage cable TV network equipment
app1.chinadaily.com.cn

southcn:Falun Gong Cult OUTLAWED
www.newsgd.com

Here we should point out that the banning of "Falun Gong" by the Chinese government is also part of
www.chinaembassycanada.org

Falun Gong Practitioner Not Sorry for Killing Father, Wife
news.xinhuanet.com

Now compare all that to
http://www.google.com/search?q=Falun [google.com]

Now, if the Chinese Gov't is making Google filter based on English keywords, you think they're not going to do the same with their uber-firewall?

Many Chinese schools teach english. It isn't like they only speak various Chinese dialects over there.

Re:I wonder... (1)

mike260 (224212) | about 8 years ago | (#15656870)

So google.cn is whitelisted, on the understanding that they do some filtering of their own?

Re:I wonder... (2, Insightful)

RWerp (798951) | about 8 years ago | (#15656950)

Interesting bit of facts you posted here. So Google does not simply censor keywords like "Falun". They block some web pages and let through others, those which say things convenient for the China government. Effectively, google.cn is an extension of the Chinese propaganda ministry. I wonder whether Google checks the content of the pages on its own, or does it get a list of the allowed pages from the Chinese? "Don't be evil" :))

Re:I wonder... (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | about 8 years ago | (#15657023)

What is so "less evil" about sitting by and letting Yahoo and MSN censor the Chinese and not even tell the Chinese they're being censored?

Re:I wonder... (1)

mike260 (224212) | about 8 years ago | (#15656849)

That's a real showstopper of a problem you've spotted there.

Re:I wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656900)

Uh obviously they would block both. People do speak English in China. LOL.

hard to believe (2, Insightful)

CBHighlander (925941) | about 8 years ago | (#15656735)

I can't imagine why anyone would choose a stateless firewall over one the preforms stateful inspection on all traffic. There are so many options available (pix, checkpoint, or just a well built iptables system), it would seem you'd have to work at finding something stateless.

Re:hard to believe (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656760)

I'm sure they could firewall the entire country on a few PIX boxes *rolleyes*

They chose stateless because the lack of state table for every connection saves a *ton* of resources.

Re:hard to believe (3, Insightful)

cperciva (102828) | about 8 years ago | (#15656768)

I can't imagine why anyone would choose a stateless firewall

Stateful firewalls scale poorly.

should we slashdot china's firewall?.... (2, Funny)

edflyerssn007 (897318) | about 8 years ago | (#15656744)

Should china's firewall be slashdotted so that it can't work anymore and therefore allow the people of china a free internet? (free as in not censored).

-ed

Re:should we slashdot china's firewall?.... (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | about 8 years ago | (#15656779)

If you exploit the firewall and totally disable it they'll only replace it with bigger and better. So you'll screw the good guys twice as much as the bad guys.

Re:should we slashdot china's firewall?.... (2, Insightful)

RWerp (798951) | about 8 years ago | (#15656963)

Your logic is faulty. The good guys get screwed anyway. So the least one can do, is to create some pain for the bad guys.

Re:should we slashdot china's firewall?.... (1)

totalctrl (974993) | about 8 years ago | (#15656791)

for the traffic ranking, among global top 10, four sites are chinese sites. global top 500 [alexa.com]

most chinese web sites are designed to be million-request scale. even for some online forums and BBSs that are not so famous, it is not uncommon to always have thousands of users constantly online/logged in.

i don't think any well-known chinese sites can be easily slashdotted.

here is another example of the pageview for the site www.sina.com.cn. alexa for www.sina.com.cn [alexa.com]

That isn't technically a DDoS (5, Informative)

Jeian (409916) | about 8 years ago | (#15656756)

DDoS is using multiple computers to "flood" a target off the Internet. This would be a plain DoS attack using a software weakness to deny service.

Re:That isn't technically a DDoS (1)

Xugumad (39311) | about 8 years ago | (#15656833)

Thanks, saves me saying it.

People, a DDoS is a Distributed Denial of Service. The hint's in the first word, don't use it if it doesn't apply :)

*Pun Warning* (1)

ringworlder (867462) | about 8 years ago | (#15656969)

Interesting how people are still using MS DoS!

I know, I know...

Try the Saudi firewall (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656781)

Chinese firewall is nothing - try getting through the Saudi firewall. As I understand it, the Chinese are at least a bit less modest about what is banned, so you should be able to at least get some legit porn sites through Chinese internet. However Saudi internet would block not just porn sites, but womens rights websites, womens magazines websites, even medical sites - anything that would display a photograph or illustration of a naked woman or man was stricly banned. Even it was just part of a human body, i.e. shoulders up.

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656878)

obviously, you don't see how these two things are entirely different. whereas the chinese people are being blocked in their attempts to get out to talk to and see the outside world, the saudi govt would just be protecting their own citizens from content that is considered sacrilegious by members of the islamic faith. it isn't blocked because the saudi govt just feels the people shouldn't be aware of these thoughts at all.. they just don't want their constituents (well, sort of) to be shocked and outraged by the moral indecency that is the outside world :p

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (1)

hawfizzle (968007) | about 8 years ago | (#15656982)

i didn't know chinese people were cut off from the rest of the world... i somehow think this is untrue

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | about 8 years ago | (#15657035)

hey just don't want their constituents (well, sort of) to be shocked and outraged by the moral indecency that is the outside world :p

Yeah, that's it. That's why Saudis wear mostly western garb outside of SA.

an altruistic government? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657155)

obviously, you don't see how these two things are entirely different. whereas the saudi people are being blocked in their attempts to get out to talk to and see the human body (etc), the chinese govt would just be protecting their own citizens from content that is considered dangerous by members of the ruling party. it isn't blocked because the chinese govt just feels the people shouldn't be aware of these thoughts at all.. they just don't want their constituents (well, sort of) to be shocked and outraged by the freedom of the outside world :p

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657174)

Sorry, I should have been more specific: They ban porn sites IN ADDITION TO - any political websites, whereas I understand the Chinese only block political websites.

OT: Need to ask... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656908)

The fact that all these images are banned, and the "big one" - images of Mohammed himself...

How does anyone know what he looks like, so as to be offended at it? Can you draw a picture of anyone and just say it is Mohammed? Meanwhile, it sure seems like giant images of other muslims are popular (political posters depicting various imams, etc).

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (1)

sahim (984259) | about 8 years ago | (#15657029)

The saudis use proxy to ban all the websites. and they try to ban all the cloak websites as well.

Re:Try the Saudi firewall (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657120)

Most people in Saudi, who aren't in the very large bracket of people in abject poverty, use satellite internet connections - you see satellite tv dishes everywhere too.

Korea needs something like that... (1)

GeekDork (194851) | about 8 years ago | (#15656787)

That would mean that I could actually fight those ssh bruteforce zombies that apparently make up 95% of KorNET.

THIS IS NOT A TROLL -- DO NOT MOD THIS DOWN!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656794)

a aa aah aahed aahing aahs aal aalii aaliis aals aardvark aardvarks aardwolf aardwolves aargh aarrgh aarrghh aas aasvogel aasvogels ab aba abaca abacas abaci aback abacterial abacus abacuses abaft abaka abakas abalone abalones abamp abampere abamperes abamps abandon abandoned abandonedly abandonee abandoner abandoners abandoning abandonment abandonments abandons abapical abas abase abased abasedly abasement abasements abaser abasers abases abash abashed abashedly abashes abashing abashment abashments abasia abasias abasing abatable abate abated abatement abatements abater abaters abates abating abatis abatises abator abators abattis abattises abattoir abattoirs abaxial abaxile abba abbacies abbacy abbas abbatial abbe abbes abbess abbesses abbey abbeys abbot abbotcies abbotcy abbots abbotship abbotships abbott abbrev abbreviate abbreviated abbreviates abbreviating abbreviation abbreviations abbreviator abbreviators abdicable abdicate abdicated abdicates abdicating abdication abdications 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acrylate acrylates acrylic acrylics acrylonitrile acrylonitriles act acta actabilities actability actable acted actin actinal acting actings actinia actiniae actinian actinians actinias actinic actinically actinide actinides actinism actinisms actinium actiniums actinoid actinoids actinolite actinolites actinometer actinometers actinometric actinometries actinometry actinomorphic actinomorphies actinomorphy actinomyces actinomycete actinomycetes actinomycetous actinomycin actinomycins actinomycoses actinomycosis actinomycotic actinon actinons actins action actionability actionable actionably actionless actions activate activated activates activating activation activations activator activators active actively activeness activenesses actives activism activisms activist activistic activists activities activity activize activized activizes activizing actomyosin actomyosins actor actorish actors actress actresses actressy acts actual actualities actuality actualization actualizations actualize actualized actualizes actualizing actually actuarial actuarially actuaries actuary actuate actuated actuates actuating actuation actuations actuator actuators acuate acuities acuity aculeate aculei aculeus acumen acumens acuminate acupressure acupressures acupuncture acupunctures acupuncturist acupuncturists acutance acutances acute acutely acuteness acutenesses acuter acutes acutest acyclic acyclovir acyclovirs acyl acylate acylated acylates acylating acylation acylations acyloin acyloins acyls ad adage adages adagial adagio adagios adam adamance adamances adamancies adamancy adamant adamantine adamantly adamants adams adamsite adamsites adapt adaptabilities adaptability adaptable adaptableness adaptation adaptational adaptationally adaptations adapted adaptedness adaptednesses adapter adapters adapting adaption adaptions adaptive adaptively adaptiveness adaptivenesses adaptivities adaptivity adaptometer adaptor adaptors adapts adaxial add addable addax addaxes added addedly addend addenda addends addendum adder adders addible addict addicted addicting addiction addictions addictive addictively addictiveness addictives addicts adding addison addition additional additionally additions additive additively additives additivities additivity additory addle addled addlepated addles addling address addressabilities addressability addressable addressed addressee addressees addresser addressers addresses addressing addrest adds adduce adduceable adduced adducent adducer adducers adduces adducing adduct adducted adducting adduction adductions adductive adductor adductors adducts adeem adeemed adeeming adeems adenine adenines adenitis adenitises adenocarcinoma adenocarcinomas adenocarcinomata adenocarcinomatous adenohypophyseal adenohypophyses adenohypophysial adenohypophysis adenoid adenoidal adenoidectomy adenoidism adenoiditis

Benefits of the wall (2, Interesting)

debrain (29228) | about 8 years ago | (#15656825)

I think there are some good points to the existence of the firewall. While the firewall itself is a bad thing, no doubt, the fact that the Chinese have access to the internet at all is a huge step forward for them. We're talking about a country that was totalitarian for centuries, with virtually no interest in or comprehension of indivdiual human freedoms.

It also speaks to the power of the internet's design. Here is a nation notorious for its control of information, and the techniques they use are easy to discover, and possible to circumvent. If China can't restrict the internet, then there's hope that other governments and maybe even multinational corporations won't be able to pull it off either.

With luck, the firewall will become an irony of the past, as the importance of human dignity becomes apparant to the Chinese government.

Don't you love the last line? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15656840)

Clayton, speaking at the Sixth Workshop on Privacy Enhancing Technologies in Cambridge last week, said that the researchers had reported their findings to the Chinese Computer Emergency Response Team.

So the PRC dictatorship was directly told how to make their firewall better.

Way to go!

Now they need a national-scale stateful firewall (1)

Animats (122034) | about 8 years ago | (#15656845)

Now China will have to build a really, really big stateful firewall. Probably something like AOL's cacheing server.

Re:Now they need a national-scale stateful firewal (2, Informative)

kohaku (797652) | about 8 years ago | (#15656880)

The way things are going, AOL will probably have an equivalent firewall in a few years time. Then they can rent it out. Hooray for the free world.

Ninjas rough up geeks (3, Funny)

anidiot (821082) | about 8 years ago | (#15656858)

When a bunch of ninjas rough up the geeks in Cambridge, don't be surprised.

Re:Ninjas rough up geeks (2, Funny)

WilliamSChips (793741) | about 8 years ago | (#15657032)

Why would the Chinese have ninja? Ninja are Japanese you n00b!

Just a keyword? (1)

Kaetemi (928767) | about 8 years ago | (#15656907)

So... If someone would send one of those keywords to a huge chinese chat channel that is hosted outside of china, all the chinese people will be disconnected from that server?
(chat server hosted outside of china, because else, i guess, just you will be disconnected from the server)

Re:Just a keyword? (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | about 8 years ago | (#15657179)

Name a huge Chinese chat channel hosted outside of China.

National Security (5, Insightful)

subl33t (739983) | about 8 years ago | (#15656961)

Go ahead, mod me down.

Couldn't the Chinese government view this as an act of terrorism? In the interest of national security the Chinese government will start an ambiguous "War on Terror" after the the US "War on Terror" and "War on Drugs" which are _also_ unwinnable and declared solely to keep the ruling party in power via fear.

Oblig. Monty Python (parody) - The Terrorist Song (3, Insightful)

usurper_ii (306966) | about 8 years ago | (#15657213)

The Terrorist Song
by Usurper_ii
(Sung to the tune of Python's The Lumber Jack Song)

I'm a terrorist and I'm OK
I read at night and I work all day.

The Government:
He's a terrorist and he's OK
He reads at night and he works all day.

I read a lot and I seek the truth
I go to the lavatory.
After OKC, I saw some things that didn't make sense to me.

The Government:
He doesn't believe our story about OKC,
We monitor when he goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesday night, he went to an unapproved web site.

Chorus:
He's a terrorist and he's OK
He reads at night and he works all day.

When, after 9-11 didn't all add up,
I met with others on the net, to talk it up.

The government:
He didn't believe our story about 9-11.
We followed him to unapproved web sites after hours.
In our report, well say he had bomb-making materials under his sink.

Chorus:
He's a terrorist and he's OK
He reads at night and he works all day.

I don't think a plane hit the Pentagon.
I think the World Trade Center buildings fell all wrong.
I wish I could convince my dear ol' mom!!

The government:
He's a terrorist and we're going to make him pay?!
We read his e-mail and didn't like what he had to say?!...

Just me:
I wish I'd been born, back when America was really free!!

The Government:
He's a terrorist and we're going to make him pay
He reads the Constitution and knows his rights.
He's just like McVeigh, Bin Laden, and al-Qaeda!!

Chorus:
He's a terrorist and he's OK
He reads at night and he works all day.

 

Cyber Attacks, a good thing?? (4, Insightful)

Theovon (109752) | about 8 years ago | (#15656966)

Is it just me, or does it seem rather unkind to go about declaring, "Look at me! I just conducted a cyber-attack against China!" Hey, I'm no fan of China's government or censorship, and I am aware that China have tried to attack other countries' computers, but two wrongs don't make a right. Unless we're doing something defensive to ward off an attack from China, I see little point in taunting them and giving them reason to tighten security even further. It just doesn't seem right.

this story makes me want to puke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657077)

remember when the chinese tanks crushed the students in tienanmen? well those of us in the free world should be doing all we can to help the chinese people resist the censorship and oppression of their government.

Where is the program?? (1)

chrnb (243739) | about 8 years ago | (#15657085)

I'm in china and i need a program to exploit this, bad! is there any?

and somebody please DDoS the chinese government asap!

 

Last weeks news - original post here (4, Informative)

erik_norgaard (692400) | about 8 years ago | (#15657186)

It appears the link to the source is missing - I first read about it last week on Schneiers blog, linking ot the original blog post found here:

    http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/06/27/igno ring-the-great-firewall-of-china/ [lightbluetouchpaper.org]

And for all the details, the paper to be presented is here:

    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/ignoring.pdf [cam.ac.uk]

I think the interesting thing is that by configuring our end to ignore the invalid resets from the Great Firewall of China we can aid the distribution of otherwise censored material.

DDoS attacks against the GFC seems not to be that easy, as the article mentions the GFC is not one giant router at the backbone, but rather smaller machines closer to the end stations - the firewall is distributed accross an unknown number of gateways.

YOU FAI$L It (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15657187)

collect any spilled a relatively That have raged Fact: *bSD is dying more gay than they
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