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Apple to Unveil New Leopard OS in August

samzenpus posted about 8 years ago | from the new-kitty dept.


Max Fomitchev writes "Looks like Apple is going to reveal its new cool and fast Mac OS code-named 'Leopard' in the upcoming World Developer's Conference in August. Good news for Apple! And terrible news for Microsoft. If 'Leopard' is really what it claims to be, i.e. fast and efficient, in sharp contrast to slow and resource hungry Windows Vista, we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year."

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More Speculation (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | about 8 years ago | (#15666017)

There's not a lot of meat to this article other than "here comes Leopard!" This tech blog seems to state the obvious and then say perhaps five times ... so I'll throw down some speculation as this article [] points out.

Way back in the day, Apple code named their boxes by color. From the aforementioned article:
Red Box (for those that don't remember), was said to be a compatibility environment where Windows apps ran on the Macintosh but did so within a separate Windows installation. Apple doesn't have to reverse engineer the Windows API (like WINE) to get this functionality and theoretically upset Microsoft. Rather, it could simply be based on a standard copy of Windows. Red Box would override Windows native interface when run on OS X and would incorporate OS X's Aqua user Interface in the place of the Windows UI. The software would then make the two environments (Mac and Windows) functionally seamless with one another. Unlike a virtual environment, the end result would be full compatibility while retaining both visual as well as functional usability for the Mac user.
So we can speculate that Leopard might not only be fast but also encourage a partitioned Windows installation using boot camp so that it can reference everything within Windows and run Windows apps flawlessly without having to reboot or (more importantly) reverse engineer Windows.

Again, this is just speculation, I've been expecting them to put 'red box' functionality in a release of OS X soon.

Re:More Speculation (2, Insightful)

vought (160908) | about 8 years ago | (#15666048)

There's not a lot of meat to this article other than "here comes Leopard!"

There's nothing at all in the article on Fomitchev's site that wasn't common knowledge weeks ago. Apple itself announced Leopard's unveiling over a week ago.

Another self-promoting Slashdot submission! Submitted by Fomitchev, about Fmoitchev's blurb on Fomitchev's blog, which links to a short article that is hardly newsworthy.

Someone tell me why I should pony up to be a subscriber again? Even at the low, low price of free, Slashdot's not looking like a great deal.

Re:More Speculation (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666109)

and of course, he gets all the ad revenue, and his ugly mug loaded into everyone's browser cache.

Re:More Speculation (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666051)

It certainly makes a lot more sense for them to just use a Windows installation. If they do that, Microsoft is likely to be okay with it since it means they'll sell more copies of Windows. If Apple reverse engineered the Windows API, Microsoft would probably make "improvements" to it out of spite, to cause things to break when run on the Mac's reverse-engineered API.

That's probably also why Apple didn't reverse engineer MAPI so could talk to Exchange, choosing instead to screen-scrape Outlook Web Access.

Re:More Speculation (4, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | about 8 years ago | (#15666111)

If Apple reverse engineered the Windows API, Microsoft would probably make "improvements" to it out of spite, to cause things to break when run on the Mac's reverse-engineered API.

Actually, I'd say that implementing Win32 on Mac OS X would be a way that Apple could screw Microsoft, but good. A second implementation would freeze it: "Why aren't you using the normal win32? I want to use your app on my Mac!"

It would create considerable pressure on developers to ensure that their apps needed nothing more than whatever snapshot of the Win32 API Apple had decided to implement. WINE is trying to track MS's changes, but if Apple turns Win32 into another penalty-box environment like Classic or X11.

That being said, I don't see it happening.


Re:More Speculation (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666115)

Rewind the clock back to circa 1993. IBM had a Red Box and a Blue box OS/2. You guessed it. Red Box ran Windoze 3.1 better than those guys that had the Micro-soft Red-Manhoods.

Where did that get IBM with OS/2???


Re:More Speculation (1)

mr-mafoo (891779) | about 8 years ago | (#15666131)

Then there is yellow box for windows which is essentially the cocoa api/toolkit. It was actually available for a while (pre osx) because a lot of Swiss banks used NeXT systems IIRC.

Now with the advent of universal development (PPC/Intel), selling a packaged yellow box (or just giving it away) could drive people to develop for the Mac by being able to run one binary on 2 OS's

Re:More Speculation (4, Funny)

ElephanTS (624421) | about 8 years ago | (#15666239)

There's not a lot of meat to this article

No, but it's Leopard Meat! They go mad for it!

Stock Tip (2, Insightful)

Sv-Manowar (772313) | about 8 years ago | (#15666020)

Seems like a great time to buy Apple shares right now as they are in a dip at around $57. Peaking at around $85 earlier this month with news of this and the new powermacs expected it will definitely be an easy jump if you are looking for a short term investment.

Re:Stock Tip (2, Insightful)

BigDogCH (760290) | about 8 years ago | (#15666052)

So, what your saying is that you purchased apple at around $85, and now you are hoping us fellow nerds will help bail you out? No way, I am too busy saving up my $ for Vista! :)

In all seriousness, why doesn't Apple sell Leopard for like $99 to PC users? Would drivers be the limiting force? If it comes out before Vista, is better than Vista, and cheaper, and has less system could really sway people over to their camp. Or is it because then nobody would need to buy their hardware? Enlighten me please.

Re:Stock Tip (1)

Duds (100634) | about 8 years ago | (#15666078)

Because if OS-X ran on PCs, it would have every single one of XP's problems within minutes.

Driver issues would cause stability isssues, it would suddenly be more attractive to spyware and virus makers.

Basically it would be windows. Only probably worse because MS have a lot more practice at dealing with those issues which is why XP is by and large, so much better than 9x in these ways.

Re:Stock Tip (4, Insightful)

jmp_nyc (895404) | about 8 years ago | (#15666228)

One of the reasons that MacOS can provide a relatively consistent stable experience is that there is a limited range of hardware on which it is expected to run. Sure, Macs don't always have the very fastest of graphics chipsets (although we'll see what comes with the new PowerMac replacements), but the Apple engineers working on drivers can know exactly what chipsets are out there.

If Microsoft could seriously limit and control the hardware on which Windows would run, they could probably do a lot better with drivers, too.

These days, now that Apple is using more standardized Intel chipsets, they are able to pick a few configurations that are identical to perfectly good PCs out there and develop for those machines. As technology advances, they'll still have a limited group of configurations to develop for. (And yes, they aren't putting out high powered gaming configurations right now, but they will have high powered graphics workstations when the high end desktops come out.) If they had to start supporting everything, they would be opening a Pandora's Box of compatability issues. Dealing with the required driver variants would eat up the same resources they're using to innovate.

Besides, the reason Apple sells OS updates for $99 is that they know that everyone buying a copy has already bought a machine they produced.

Re:Stock Tip (3, Insightful)

gantos (580678) | about 8 years ago | (#15666302)

Because Apple is a HARDWARE company. They want to sell BOXES. To make OS X available for other hardware would mean the inclusion of countless drivers, support for vitually limitless hardware configurations, and the hiring of a huge support staff to manage the problems associated with a market that is far from manageable (among other things). These are just some of the problems Microsoft must deal with on a daily basis. But because Apple is a HARDWARE company, they can keep a short leash on the hardware they support, which helps keep their OS lean, the development cycles short, and launches rock-solid.

Re:Stock Tip (2, Funny)

finkployd (12902) | about 8 years ago | (#15666076)

I bought APPL at $16 and thought I was quite the savvy trader when I sold it at $35. I think it was right about the time it hit the upper $70s and split I realized I was an idiot (an idiot who doubled his investment, but still an idiot)


Re:Stock Tip (0, Offtopic)

LaughingCoder (914424) | about 8 years ago | (#15666084)

Actually, Apple's stock price is driven by the iPod franchise. And in that area they are facing increasing competition. The new Sansa series from Sandisk ( 4/qid=1152187519/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-5524415-6770269? ie=UTF8) is getting rave reviews, Samsung is getting stronger, and there are rumors Microsoft will enter the fray this Christmas ( n2006/tc20060126_148049.htm). I think these are the reasons for the recent drop in their stock price, and frankly (as Intel can attest), holding on to 75% of a technology-driven market is really hard to do. Personally, I don't think Apple stock is a very good bet right now. Of course if this new machine is a blockbuster maybe they could wean themselves off of the iPod as their big growth driver.

Re:Stock Tip (5, Funny)

BasilBrush (643681) | about 8 years ago | (#15666127)

If I had a dollar for every new up and coming MP3 player that was supposed to be an iPod killer, I'd be able to buy an iPod.

Re:Stock Tip (3, Funny)

abscissa (136568) | about 8 years ago | (#15666097)

Are you the guy who sent me the e-mails that shares of APPL are predicted by experts to go up 500% in the next 90 days and that APPL was a great buy right now?

Re:Stock Tip (1)

jcr (53032) | about 8 years ago | (#15666117)

Seems like a great time to buy Apple shares right now as they are in a dip at around $57.

Better still, buy January $70 calls.. ;-)


Re:Stock Tip (1)

Budenny (888916) | about 8 years ago | (#15666272)

No. The Macmaniacs are far too happy and cheerful. The time to buy, the only time to buy, is when the Mac newsgroups are full of gloom, and your mac using friends walk around with long faces and say diffidently about the latest Windows catastrophe that of course Macs don't suffer from it, but there again no-one cares. The headlines are about possible takeovers or chapter 11. Wait for it, then buy.

Then wait until the enthusiasts are euphoric, talking (as now) about competing with MS, raising share dramatically, lots of conversions, just one more push.

Then sell, and wait for gloom to reach fever pitch.

Right now we are not in gloom. We are in euphoric denial on the way down. Pretty soon gloom will start to rise. Wait a bit longer. What you want to pick up is despair.

This may be the most reliable indicator in Western stock markets for the last 15+ years. Infallible.

Yes, but... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666025)

will it run Ubuntu ??

Who writes this junk? (5, Insightful)

vought (160908) | about 8 years ago | (#15666027)

I mean c'mon. A day's worth of submissions, and you can't do any better than information that's been on the street for over a week, rewritten by a fifth-grader?

If "Leopard" is really what it claims to be, i.e. fast and efficient in sharp contrast to slow and resource hungry Windows Vista, we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year."

Maybe the reason fewer people are taking Slashdot seriously is because Slashdot doesn't seem to take itself seriously.

Hire a f-ing editor to check out and rewrite the most egregious but still post-worthy submissions. No, a real editor, not one of your friends.

Re:Who writes this junk? (4, Informative)

kjart (941720) | about 8 years ago | (#15666104)

Agreed. It's not even like you'd need to edit a whole article - you're editing the summary of an article.

we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year
(emphasis mine)

I found that pretty amusing. Since when is a 10% (plus or minus; feel free to correct me with solid info) marketshare remarkable?

Also, from the actual article itself:

The upcoming "Leopard" OS is expected to be even slicker and faster than its predecessor OS X.

Is this actually a new OS like the article suggests, or just a new revision of OSX (10.5 or what have you)? If it's not supposed to be completely brand new, I find this article somewhat questionable.

Re:Who writes this junk? (3, Insightful)

Rosyna (80334) | about 8 years ago | (#15666134)

I mean c'mon. A day's worth of submissions, and you can't do any better than information that's been on the street for over a week, rewritten by a fifth-grader?

By week, I think you mean year. The fact leopard would be announced at WWDC was pre-announced at last year's WWDC. I'm not sure how this is news.

Re:Who writes this junk? (1)

Dysfnctnl85 (690109) | about 8 years ago | (#15666142)

And as a footnote to this all, how about keeping the Vista and PS3 SPECULATION posts to a minimum! Obviously readers aren't capable of applying their own disclaimer to what the are reading and dragging down /. as a whole.

Re:Who writes this junk? (3, Insightful)

Shaper_pmp (825142) | about 8 years ago | (#15666247)

Seconded. This is rubbish in every sense - writing, grammar, analysis... it's all crap.

While Microsoft was battling with Vista that is a dog slow and resource-hungry Apple it would seem was focusing on speed, performance and elegance.

Since when have Microsoft OSs not been slow and resource-hungry? And when did Apple ever not prioritize elegance and performance?

The upcoming "Leopard" OS is expected to be even slicker and faster than its predecessor OS X.

Careful - your fanboyism's showing.

And with Macs running on Intel hardware, how long will it be before Mac OS "Leopard" or its successor spreads out into the PC realm?

Erm, a long time. Apple needs to differentiate itself from Microsoft to retain its market share. Moving to an Intel architecture was a risky step, as it deprived them of one of their major differentiating factors, PPC architecture.

The minute Apple runs on commodity PC hardware no-one has any reason to buy expensive Mac hardware, so they won't. This takes Apple out of the hardware game, and makes them entirely reliant on software and iPods. Mac OS/X will then compete directly with Windows, and though it's faster, more stable and more secure, Windows has that whole 90%+ market share thing going for it. Apple would be squished in short order.

Some think this would never happen, but I have a feeling that it will. When Microsoft attributes a bunch of its Vista problems to backwards compatibility issues Apple would not suffer the same when expanding to PC platform.

Sorry? If Apple wants to make OS/X run on commodity PC hardware it's going to have exactly the same problems. Sure, it could arbitrarily draw a line in the sand and refuse to support hardware older than X years, but that's not going to impress anyone used to Windows' (at least passable) support for legacy PC peripherals.

And even if the problems weren't as severe as MS's in the short term, by giving up control over the hardware OS/X runs on, Apple will be ensuring it only gets worse in the future, until within a few years they'll be just as stuffed as MS.

Perhaps transition to Intel's hardware was the first step for Apple. Perhaps Jobs wants to strike Microsoft when it is the weakest and not as paranoid as ever (due to stepping down of Gates).

Riiiiight, because Ballmer et al are reknowned industry-wide as cuddly, fluffy-wuffy teddy-bears.

Certainly MS is looking shakier than it has for a long time, but I doubt the paranoia level's decreased much since Bill left.

Perhaps a mouse will overcome a dinosaur repeating the course of natural history in the IT arena.

Very poetic.

Except, of course, the dinosaurs actually kept the "mice" down for millions of years, and it was only once the dinosaurs had already naturally gone extinct on their own that the mice even had a chance. There's nothing like a bad analogy to really demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about...

Who knows. But I think that the departure of Gates and Vista debacle proves that the time is ripe for someone to seriously take on Microsoft's monopoly.

This is probably the only mildly sensible thing in the entire article.

And can anybody name a better candidate than Apple?

What, you mean the guys who failed to put a dent in it for the last twenty years? Sorry Mac guys and girls, but when a cash-poor FOSS operating system written by a bunch of hobbyists frightens MS more than a long-term competitor, you obviously aren't competing quite as hard as you think.

A better candidate than Apple?

Linux (free, doesn't have to worry about profits or budgets, has been eating MS's lunch for years on the server-side, and is starting to make some moves on the desktop side, has had several high-profile Apple fans defect to it in the last couple of months alone).

Google/web services (does an end-run around the entire local OS, making it irrelevant). (starting to challenge MS's office productivity cash-cow).

Not to disparage what Apple's accomplished, of course - it's managed to stay in business competing directly with Microsoft for years, and that's no small feat on its own. They've also scored big wins with the iPod and OS/X, but the mindless Apple fanboyism of the article really really started to grate...

Re:Who writes this junk? (1)

Momoru (837801) | about 8 years ago | (#15666254)

Maybe it was a typo, and the OS will be called lepard, as in the disease and the stigma that follows those who have it?

Leopard OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666032)

Will that run on both a Leopard I and II?

not likely (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666034)

niche hardware bundled with software market. Nice OS, but expensive hardware = Not much of an increase

No, We Won't. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666038)

Sleek, smooth and nobody gives a damn.

I hate taking the role of Master of the Obvious, but the world runs on Windows and shall continue to do so for the immediate future. Despite smarmy advertisements with a "Mac" who doesn't know the meaning of 'touche' (seriously, it's the "Windows" representative that should be calling the Mac on it!)...

Apple's marketshare of the computing world = crap.

Grandma ain't switching. Grandma had enough trouble learning how to use this Lookout thing to send internets.

Gamers ain't switching. Please - gaming on the Mac? It's slightly better than gaming on Linux. A novelty; something you pick up in a dollar store.

Business? Graphic design, reflecting Apple's marketshare, is a miniscule part of the overall world of "Business".

Did Enlightenment* make everyone convert to Linux because it was smooth and shiny? No? Why is that?

It's the applications, stupid.

* Tales of E's bloat were greatly exaggerated. Of course it took more RAM than, say, Windowmaker. Windowmaker looked like My First GUI.

Re:No, We Won't. (3, Informative)

drewmg (974212) | about 8 years ago | (#15666154)

I too hate to point out the obvious but...

Thousands of casual computer users are switching. I switched. I know at least 10 people in my age group (20-30) who have swtiched. 10 more who are thinking about it. People looking to buy a new comptuer when they go off to college are looking at Macs more seriously than ever. They do the same things that any casual user is looking for in a Windows computer (email, web, chat, word processing), they look better doing it, and they work flawlessly (and better) with that iPod they got for Christmas.

You're right when it comes to Gamers not switching to Macs, but how many gamers don't have a PS2 or Xbox? You're right when it comes to businesses not switching to Macs, but the home computer market is certainly not worth overlooking.

Mac's marketshare may not be stellar yet, but compare it to their marketshare 5 years ago.

Re:No, We Won't. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666190)

I also hate to point out the obvious, but don't you think it is a bit flawed to extrapolate that the home market is considering moving to Macs based on just your personal experience?

Re:No, We Won't. (1)

krell (896769) | about 8 years ago | (#15666210)

It's still too little. While thousands switch to Mac, there are hundreds switching from Mac, and thousands of new computer users who choose PC instead of Mac, which pretty much wipes out gains. It's pretty easy to see why, at least from the "availability" point of view. Around here, there are several big-box stores that only sell PCs. There's a cool Mac store, but it keeps limited bankers hours, so it ends up if you get that "new computer" itch at 7:00 pm, you'll find several big-box chains to sell you PCs at a time the Mac store has been closed for at least an hour.

Re:No, We Won't. (1)

kjart (941720) | about 8 years ago | (#15666229)

Mac's marketshare may not be stellar yet, but compare it to their marketshare 5 years ago.

Sure, how about 2001 vs 2005? A quick Google found this [] from 2002 and this [] for 2005 (hint: they are basically the same, maybe even lower). The rest of your post hit the nail on the head (though maybe unintentionally) - Mac's are all about perception and appearance. They seem to have a far larger market share than they actually do.

That being said, I'm also considering getting a Macbook :) (why no integrated video, why?!?).

Re:No, We Won't. (1)

kjart (941720) | about 8 years ago | (#15666244)

Oops, first one is actually 2001.

I agree (1)

RMH101 (636144) | about 8 years ago | (#15666237)

I'm in the process of switching myself. No more Windows. No more DRM nightmares. No more "trusted computing". No more paying over the odds for software and hardware.
I'm switching to Ubuntu.

Re:No, We Won't. (1)

tsa (15680) | about 8 years ago | (#15666173)

That's why Apple stuff sppeals to a lot of people. It's something not everybody has. Buying Apple shows you're different. iPods are excluded from this of course. I mean, who doesn't have an iPod :-)

Re:No, We Won't. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666205)


No one wants fisher price on their desktop.

Apple isn't serious, and never has been.

It seems to draw out pansy ass metrosexual people who have absolutely no clue about computing.

Re:No, We Won't. (1)

Nova1313 (630547) | about 8 years ago | (#15666221)

I dunno I finalized my switch on linux once I got E. I have alot of my friends hooked. And the applications are there for your average everyday user. I had my sister and parents switched for a while. Now that my sister is going off to college in the fall she bought a mac.

I know not everyone is going to switch so you have a point... but presentation has alot to do with it for most people. Even simple stupid stuff.

Gaming on linux isn't bad. I've yet to come across a game that I want to play that doesn't work under cedega or doesn't have a linux client. It turns out that I also happen to be a huge nwn fan (even before I switched) and play alot of unreal tournament and quake. But I have other things that I still play like WoW, starcraft, sim city 2k and they all seem to work just fine. Granted I can't run the cutting edge games but most people get them, play them for a short time and dispose. This saves me money. If I buy 3-4 games a year I'm lucky. But I play them all into the ground.

Pretty Funny (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666223)

Now I've heard everything. A Windows supporter on the defensive, having to deny that MS's days are numbered. My how times have changed.

Re:No, We Won't. (2, Insightful)

bmxbandit (608873) | about 8 years ago | (#15666284)

Windows is used primarly by people who have to let others (salesmen) make their choices for them. This may be due to a lack of familiarity with computer systems, or more commonly total fear. And you're right, I cannot see this type of person disappearing, or Microsoft stopping their main business practice of preying on these vunerable individuals.
What you fail to recognise however, is that Microsoft never have, and never will, deal with advancement of technology (why bother when you've got Sun, IBM, Apple etc. doing it for you, ten years in advance?).
No... Windows will continue to represent the 'world of computing' to people who don't know what a computer is (and presumably think that Macdonald's make the best food in the world!!).
As for Apple having a 'niche' market share, this is really funny. You could equally argue that more than 90% of people who need a stable and robust system that can process huge files, and have more important things to do then 'patch' their operating system every other week, have already ruled windows out. Remember those of us with an interest in the computer industry spent ten years listening to MS fanboys like yourself claiming that Mac's were 'rubbish' with their windows and newfangled mice and would NEVER replace dos.
Oh, and love the gaming bit. Yeah, mac users will never be able to compete with people who spend $1000 to play 'niche' games on a computer. Yeah idiots like Mac users will probably just have to spend $50 dollars on a gamecube and play stuff created by the world greatest games developers... oh dear. Not to worry Vista should be out soon, so you will be able to spend another $100 on making your email program run more slowly. How the world of technology envies you!!!!

...long before Longhorn (1)

Zo0ok (209803) | about 8 years ago | (#15666043)

I remember Steve Jobs saying "Tiger will be out long before Longhorn".

Now maybe even Leopard will come out before Vista. But, I guess "reveal" is not really the same as "release".

Re:...long before Longhorn (1)

laffer1 (701823) | about 8 years ago | (#15666243)

Its possible, but I hope apple holds off a little. I'd rather have Leopard come out after vista so its the newest OS and their bootcamp or whatever replaces it will be compatible with vista.

The author is a fucking moron, slashdot is dying (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666045)

I'm sorry, I don't even know where to begin

Re:The author is a fucking moron, slashdot is dyin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666121)

You are a fucking moron, BSD is dying, not slashdot... the new overhead in IPv6 will mean that ISPs are getting 110% more traffic for the same data

This post was a classic troll, as was the parent who should have ben modded down

Huh? Wanna say that again? (0, Flamebait)

MSFanBoi2 (930319) | about 8 years ago | (#15666046)

Last I checked Windows Vista is in Beta. So just how does anyone know how it's performance is at this time. The last two builds following Beta 2 are already leaps and bounds faster than Beta2 both during the install and standard functions...

And people complain about Microsoft FUD.

Were we not told by the Apple folks that the marketshare was going to boom with the release of 10.0? Then again with 10.2 and so on? And then again when they went to Intel... in fact the market share has decreased since the release of 10.0...

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (1)

vought (160908) | about 8 years ago | (#15666062)

So just how does anyone know how it's performance is at this time.

Dude, read that sentence back...I'll wait, so you can sound out the words. ...since it's in beta at this time, I'm sure lots of people can tell you EXACTLY what the performance of Vista is "at this time". It sucks!

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (2, Insightful)

mgblst (80109) | about 8 years ago | (#15666077)

And in my humble (and the rest of the world's) experience, Microsoft has not made anything that works faster than the previous edition. I dare you to name a product that Microsoft has revised, and turns out faster - I am not talking about more secure (which I accept that Windows 2000 is), but one that runs faster.

Why? Because Microsoft has chosen the option to add in more options, rather than streamline. Can't really fault them for this strategy, since it seems to work for them and most people, but it annoys the hell out of me.

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (1)

Orange Crush (934731) | about 8 years ago | (#15666179)

Ummmm . . . Apple has been adding more options and features to their OS with every 10.x release while streamlining it every time. The minimum sys reqs for Vista Ultimate with Aero are through the roof.

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666248)

"Microsoft has not made anything that works faster than the previous edition"

Several directx versions have given better performanace than the previous ones, particularly early on.
Windows 2000 runs games a little faster than 98 (or NT 4, if you want to make that comparison instead).
The OS itself is obviously slower in general, but application performance is what counts for most people - you buy the OS to run the apps.

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (5, Interesting)

BasilBrush (643681) | about 8 years ago | (#15666193)

Last I checked Windows Vista is in Beta. So just how does anyone know how it's performance is at this time.

Well one could go with history and note the fact that EVERY new version of Windows has been a lot slower than the predecessor. Meanwhile every version of OS X has been faster than the predecessor.

we not told by the Apple folks that the marketshare was going to boom with the release of 10.0? Then again with 10.2 and so on? And then again when they went to Intel...

If you look at the unit sales of Macs from Apple quarterly reports, you'll see that they is usually significantly larger growth YoY that in the overall PC market. That means growing market share.

Of confirm it by looking at sites browser stats. This one shows Mac userbase doubling in 3 years. sp []

in fact the market share has decreased since the release of 10.0...

I can see why you selected your username. But you'd do better if you didn't overreach yourself with your FUD.

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (2, Interesting)

kjart (941720) | about 8 years ago | (#15666304)

You'd do well to follow your own advice. I've already posted this, but what the heck:

Q1 2001 [] (roughly 5.4% worldwide) and Q1 2006 [] (roughly 2.0% worldwide)

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (2, Informative)

datafr0g (831498) | about 8 years ago | (#15666206)

in fact the market share has decreased since the release of 10.0...

Really? Not according to this article: s/14191452.htm []
Apple may have lost market share in the late 90's / early 2000's but they are recovering. I believe this a lot of this is due to OS X.

Gartner puts Apple's 1996 share at 4.6 percent, IDC at 5.1 percent. Market share in 2005 was 2.2 percent from Gartner and 2.3 percent from IDC. According to Gartner, Apple's market share peaked at 15.8 percent in 1980 -- four years before the Mac was introduced.
Apple is somewhat stronger in U.S. consumer market share, with Gartner giving Apple 5.8 percent in 2005 and IDC at 2.9 percent.
It's also worth noting that Apple's worldwide market share did move up slightly last year from 1.9 percent in 2004, according to Gartner, or 2.0 percent, according to IDC.
That's because Mac sales are exceeding industry growth rates. Apple shipped 38 percent more Macs in the fiscal year ended Sept. 24, 2005, than in the prior year, and shipments were up 20 percent in the last three months of 2005.

I generally don't trust statistics but I have more faith in these numbers than someone who calls himself MSFanBoi2.

Re:Huh? Wanna say that again? (1)

tomcres (925786) | about 8 years ago | (#15666306)

I jumped ship after 10.3, so I don't know if 10.4 really was any kind of improvement. But I can tell you that 10.2 was the first version that was somewhat usable. 10.3 was actually much better, but still incredibly slow and bloated. The OS was slow and unresponsive even without any running apps and 512MB of RAM on a 1.25GHz iBook G4. Of course, being that Apple gives you a cruddy 32MB of VRAM in the iBook, I couldn't take advantage of Quartz Extreme. And there's no way to turn all of that eye candy off to speed things up a bit. You're stuck with that gawdy UI even if it strains the limits of your system, which, ironically, was specifically built to run the OS!

Windows XP is responsive and quick even on my son's old 800 MHz Duron system with 256MB of RAM. I sold all the Macs, bought PCs, and haven't regretted it one bit.

This is just NOT news. (4, Insightful)

GrahamCox (741991) | about 8 years ago | (#15666047)

Even if it weren't for the fact that this was announced, what, a week ago, it doesn't take a genius to realise that Apple will talk about their next OS at the forthcoming WWDC. It's what they've always done. Duh, that's what it's FOR. And those who care will know about it, and those who don't will ignore it. Just like THEY'VE always done. Fuck me, Slashdot gets lamer every day with shit "stories" like this. And I speak as a nominal Mac fan.

Re:This is just NOT news. (1)

vought (160908) | about 8 years ago | (#15666085)

Just like THEY'VE always done. Fuck me, Slashdot gets lamer every day with shit "stories" like this. And I speak as a nominal Mac fan.

No shit. I used to come here in 1998 for interesting stories about relevant tech stories and people. And posts like this story are the reason that after being a Slashdot newbie, then a junkie, I'm now visiting less and less.

I don't know whether Slashdot's audience matured right out of reading it, or if the quality of posts simply decreased. I don't know who "samzenpus" is, but s/he can't pick a story for shit. I would think that there's a lot more interesting stuff out there; which legislators from what states support net neutrality, and who is trying to gut it? Does using a computer too much make me antisocial? Here's an idea for a story - "Will Slashdot Ever Regain it's Relevance?"

Re:This is just NOT news. (1)

jcr (53032) | about 8 years ago | (#15666166)

Apple will talk about their next OS at the forthcoming WWDC. It's what they've always done.

Actually, I've been to one WWDC where they only talked about Panther, which had just been released. It was way too early to have anything at all to say about Tiger.


Re:This is just NOT news. (1)

MajinBlayze (942250) | about 8 years ago | (#15666222)

Insightful? Please. This is plain, old-fashion trolling. If you want the latest up-to-date mac news, you can probably get it from apple's press releases yourself.

For the rest of us who aren't nominal Mac fans, but still want to hear about their place in the industry, slashdot is a good place to hear about it. Personally, I check slashdot because i don't want to keep up with a dozen specific news feeds every day. Slashdot usually lets through the interesting stuff, even if it is a little behind.

Slashdot is offered to you free. Accept it, suggest improvement, or complain if you want. These complaints shouldn't be modded "Insightful", but "offtopic", or occasionally "Flamebait"/"troll"

Re:This is just NOT news. (1)

elecngnr (843285) | about 8 years ago | (#15666255)

This is absolutely true. This is not news. It is not so much that it was reannounced a week back, but Steve Jobs announced it almost a year ago at WWDC 2005. I thought he had, so I checked the video of his keynote to make sure I did not spread incorrect information on /. At about 57.5 minutes into his keynote, he says that they will be telling us about Leopard at WWDC 2006. Now, I understand that some in the Windoze community may be used to being told that something will be ready at a certain time....and then the date is pushed back [cough]Longhorn[cough], but Apple has been pretty much on or ahead of schedule in recent years. And, as an longtime Apple user I can say that the OS has gotten better over time imho. Spotlight alone made Tiger well worth it for me.

I think /. needs to really think about what gets posted as news. This is an obvious "HEY, look at MY site" posting.

I think there is that possiblily - (0)

Nooogie (986948) | about 8 years ago | (#15666049)

ie that apple's market share will increase when vista is fully available. But apple does need to work on it's image - currently it has a too much of a trendy image that comes across as all chrome, and not enough guts. If they lost that image, I'd certainly consider a mac of some sort, although maybe the cost would have to fall too.

Re:I think there is that possiblily - (2, Insightful)

GrahamCox (741991) | about 8 years ago | (#15666067)

If they lost that image, I'd certainly consider a mac of some sort

So, basically you choose your computer on the basis of its marketing image, rather than any serious look at what it can actually do, or how it works. You realise how lame that is? Still, it is certainly this sort of attitude that has handed Microsoft its 90%+ market share, so you're not alone.

Re:I think there is that possiblily - (1)

Budenny (888916) | about 8 years ago | (#15666234)

The thing that handed Windows its share was that it had no competition. No OS which will not run on third party hardware is ever going to make a dent in Windows.

As to the marketing image. its important to a lot of people, but perhaps its not just the image as put out by Cupertino of the products. Its also the image put out by the Mac people, the attitudes struck and so on. Its something that a lot of people do not want to be associated with. Something that has been commented on in the Mac online community fairly often. Enthusiasts who are their chosen platform's worst enemy.

Yet another Apple commercial (4, Insightful)

boaz112358 (947978) | about 8 years ago | (#15666054)

Neither the submission nor the article actually says anything about the OS, yet we're told the Leopard is "cool and fast" without any evidence whatsoever. Yet somehow this magic OS, which we know nothing about, is going to cause "remarkable market share gain next year." Nope, never heard that before.

Ob: (0, Troll)

Bloke down the pub (861787) | about 8 years ago | (#15666057)

Can it play ogg vorbis?

Mod Parent Up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666089)

This is an excellent question, and I'm saying this as a lifetime mac user.

Re:Ob: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666112)

ogg vorbis ...

ogg is vorbising for you BITCH!

try singing it ... write a song around it...

Year of the Mac? (4, Insightful)

i_should_be_working (720372) | about 8 years ago | (#15666058)

It seems as if journalists (or Apple proponents in general) have caught whatever afflicted the Linux fan-boys. Every release or change in Apple software/hardware is seen as something that could trigger a whole bunch of Windows users to switch.

Seems a bit out of character..

Big Cat Names (2, Funny)

Infernal Device (865066) | about 8 years ago | (#15666113)

I'm waiting for the release called "Pete Puma"!


Re:Big Cat Names (1)

jcr (53032) | about 8 years ago | (#15666125)

Eh... How many lumps do you want?


Did Ubuntu buy Apple???? (1)

krell (896769) | about 8 years ago | (#15666307)

"I'm waiting for the release called "Pete Puma"!"

Looking forward to "Ornery Ocelot" OS in 2008, followed by "Citified Cerval" in 2011.

Don't trust that source (1)

matt4077 (581118) | about 8 years ago | (#15666122)

Quote: The upcoming "Leopard" OS is expected to be even slicker and faster than its predecessor OS X.

Wake me when.... (4, Funny)

cvd6262 (180823) | about 8 years ago | (#15666123)

...they release OS X Liger.

IT = Stapler (1)

cdomigan (833362) | about 8 years ago | (#15666135)


Remarkable Market Share? (4, Insightful)

whisper_jeff (680366) | about 8 years ago | (#15666157)

"...we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year." Remarkable market share? Ok, I'm a Mac guy - have been for ... too long, but are you kidding? 3-5% is remarkable? Well, maybe in so much as how small it is given how good it is, but I don't think that's what you meant when you used "remarkable market share..."

Re:Remarkable Market Share? (2, Insightful)

eltonito (910528) | about 8 years ago | (#15666291)

"Remarkable" is a poor choice of words in this context, but I believe the author was trying to imply their "remarkable market share growth" over the past year will continue.

Re:Remarkable Market Share? (1)

dsfox (2694) | about 8 years ago | (#15666309)

See, you remarked on it just now!

Microsoft Is Worried Now (0)

rwrife (712064) | about 8 years ago | (#15666164)

This is clearly a large threat to Windows Vista because of how efficient it is.....I mean whenever choose my operating system I base my decision on how efficient it is, not the software it's capable of running. (FYI, I'm being sarcastic)

who said vista was slow? (2, Interesting)

buddyglass (925859) | about 8 years ago | (#15666165)

Yes, it requires a (somewhat) beefy 3d graphics card to make full use of Aero Glass. But that's just the UI. Rarely is the UI a system's bottleneck. I imagine that with the revamped TCP/IP stack and memory manager, Vista should yield performance improvements over XP/2003 for a wide range of apps.

Does a "faster" OS really sell computers? (2, Informative)

rickkas7 (983760) | about 8 years ago | (#15666169)

Sure it might have some bearing on upgrade OS sales, but does it really sell computers? I mean if you go into a store and try out a new computer, it's always going to be feel much faster than even a 2 year old computer. No matter how bloated an OS is, a new computer with a fresh OS installed on it will always seem fast. I don't see how it's a differentiating factor.

Typo (1)

cyfer2000 (548592) | about 8 years ago | (#15666271)

you apparently forgot to type "windw" in the word "windOwS".

No (1)

rob1980 (941751) | about 8 years ago | (#15666171)

If "Leopard" is really what it claims to be, i.e. fast and efficient in sharp contrast to slow and resource hungry Windows Vista, we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year."

People have been saying that since Jaguar. You're not going to see Apple's share suddenly jump up in the desktop market because it still carries the stigma of not being compatible with anything and being ridiculous to troubleshoot when something breaks.

Apple Fanbois poisoning Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666175)

If stories without any substance (other than praising Apple) keep getting posted on the front page, Slashdot is going to become an even bigger joke.

2.2% is remarkable? (2, Insightful)

SEE (7681) | about 8 years ago | (#15666177)

In calendar year 2005 (Q2-4 FY2005, Q1 FY2006), Apple unit sales were 4.7 million.
In calendar year 2005, total PC unit sales were 208.6 million.

Apple's selling plenty to survive as a profitable niche product, sure. But they are competition for Microsoft in the same sense mainframes are.

Re:2.2% is remarkable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666252)

You cannot make a comparison like that.
Apple is a hardware company and it is not licensing its OS to anyone (for now).
So you can compare Apple to Dell, to HP, to Acer, but not to Microsoft.
You cannot compare Apple unit sales with the sum of all the PC unit sales, it makes no sense.

back-ward compatibilty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666188)

"When Microsoft attributes a bunch of its Vista problems
to backwards compatibility issues Apple would not suffer
the same when expanding to PC platform". *LOL*

"APPLE != backward compatibility(tm)" TEH trademark of apple.

Wow, Slashdot is really falling apart. (3, Insightful)

NYTrojan (682560) | about 8 years ago | (#15666202)

Did the submitter even READ what he wrote?

If "Leopard" is really what it claims to be, i.e. fast and efficient in sharp contrast to slow and resource hungry Windows Vista, we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year."

WTF is that? First off, it's wrong. It's very very wrong. Tiger is better than XP now, but did we see 'Apple's remarkable market share gain this year'? No. There is nothing certain about Apple and 'market share gain' no matter how superior their products. Forget 'remarkable'. Second off, it's written so badly I had to go over it three times to make sure it really said what it said.

Re:Wow, Slashdot is really falling apart. (1)

krell (896769) | about 8 years ago | (#15666218)

If superior OS automatically translated into huge market share gains, we'd have been in a BeOS world for many years now.

Beating the dead horse (1, Insightful)

ICLKennyG (899257) | about 8 years ago | (#15666213)

I too have noticed a downward trend of the quality of article posted by slashdot. However this debate is just like the linux debate. The actual non-enterprise market will for the foreseable future be Windows. Being a programmer and doing a lot of linux work with a lot of fanboys I enevitably take some ribbing for running Micro$oft. However, I tried the switch to linux - purely on the influence of my co-workers - last time I built a pc. I spent about 25% of my time looking for an application like X where X was something I already used on Windows. I eventually realized it was insane to try and be windows LIKE when I could actually have windows. Mac is going to find this out the same way. The hardcore graphics people will likely always use Mac, but they are likely to lose their recent converts to windows. Why bother paying an extra 30% for hardware/software only to run the SAME as any other computer? Unfortunatly 80%+ of the world is too stupid to really consider switching. It took them 5 years just to learn where their any key was and they aren't going to be switching to go back to knowing less than nothing. The Mac has always been a great Mac. It is now a crappy PC and unfortunatly that's what they are marketing it as. Finally to you fanboys out there talking about efficient Mac development - Mac's are more like consoles than computers - Windows has a billion different pieces of hardware and software it has to deal with - Mac has a few hundred pieces of hardware and a few thousand software titles. It's a bit smaller scope project.

Apple (2, Insightful)

bigkahunafish (708759) | about 8 years ago | (#15666215)

If "Leopard" is really what it claims to be, i.e. fast and efficient in sharp contrast to slow and resource hungry Windows Vista, we certainly would see Apple's remarkable market share gain next year.
This makes the assumption that the masses want "fast and efficient." I think quite the opposite. If the masses wanted fast and efficient, they would turn off the fancy stuff in XP and turn it back to looking like 2000. Sorry, but the masses are not interested in speed or efficiency, they are looking for eye candy, which is exactly why MS will not lose any significant market share.

Re:Apple (1)

wackymacs (865437) | about 8 years ago | (#15666274)

No. The masses want an OS that they can actually use and get stuff done on, so they will want speed and efficiency. Most people don't give a damn what it looks like, they just use whatever their computer came with, and thats why Windows is dominant, because every manufacturer bundles it except for...Apple. People hardly ever switch from what came with their computer, also with Internet Explorer is the dominant browser even though its crap.

Apple's next Mac OS X, Leopard (2, Interesting)

wackymacs (865437) | about 8 years ago | (#15666238)

Once again, the Slashdot editors did a great job, not. This news was released by Apple last month, and the writing quality of this news segment is terrible. Leopard's expected features are built-in virtualization, related with Boot Camp, a new file system (possibly, unsure on this one myself), new finder (hopefully finally not carbon anymore), improved spotlight, dashboard widget editor, improved, ichat 4.0 with tabbed chatting, safari 3.0, and of course a ton of security fixes, bug fixes, etc. I dont know what exactly will be "new" of course. Will it be cool and fast? We'll have to wait and see...It will obviously crawl around on older Macs (G3s) if they are even supported, but speed along on the new Intel Macs. Market share... With Apple's new Intel Macs, market share is already increasing, but not by much - probably in the range of 0.50 - 1.50% this year. However, through 2007 I expect Apple to gain a few more percent market share, and they might compete more aggressively against Dell and others. Apple will never gain more market share with their software, only with their hardware (unless of course, they license OS X to the PC cloners). Just my take on all this, and my attempt to sort of complete this news post as it should have been done.

Re:Apple's next Mac OS X, Leopard (4, Informative)

saddino (183491) | about 8 years ago | (#15666293)

new finder (hopefully finally not carbon anymore)

One should note that it's not Carbon that makes the Finder suck. Any decent, full-featured OS X application can be written in Carbon if the developer takes care to implement things correctly. And even more importantly, some things in OS X can still only be done in Carbon, hence the Framework's inclusion in many Cocoa applications as well. Unfortunately, most users associate Carbon with all those ported ("carbonized") OS 9 C++ applications written on top of Metrowerks' PowerPlant, so it makes sense Carbon has a bad rap, but the fact is: Carbon is not the issue here. Carbon's fine.

Live from vegas...! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666251)

It's Sigfried and Roy OS!

Microsoft way ahead (4, Funny)

KrunZ (247479) | about 8 years ago | (#15666275)

Microsoft released their Leper OS years ago

I remember that.... (1)

krell (896769) | about 8 years ago | (#15666283)

"Microsoft released their Leper OS years ago"

Who can forget the ad blitz that started on St. Patrick's Day, 2002, featuring an Irish midget dressed in green, saying "Leper cahn do many things!"

It does not matter, and Apple does not care (1, Insightful)

Danathar (267989) | about 8 years ago | (#15666280)

People talk about Apple taking MS market share, about OS X getting viruses, about the Steve releasing OS X for generic Intel boxes.

None of those things will EVER happen. Apple has come to understand you can run quite a profitible biz by having 7-10% marketshare. It even helps them because the evil virus authors don't write viruses due to it's market share compared to windows(one of the reasons). The OS runs well (one of the main reasons) because Apple controls the hardware it runs on, as opposed to MS having to deal with generic Asian motherboards and horribly written driver software by 3rd party vendors.

The Steve never wanted to become Bill Gates. Bill Gates and Microsoft has come to accept Apple because it does not effect them. Microsoft could wait another 5 years to release Vista and it would still be bought by 90% of the planet who runs PC's.

My feelings on OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15666281)

I tried using the blasted thing.
The interface annoyed me hugely and I didn't feel it was particularly intuitive.
I shan't be trying again until there's a release with a less quirky GUI, which won't be for some time I suppose.

Empty Article (5, Insightful)

Kichigai Mentat (588759) | about 8 years ago | (#15666282)

Did anyone else notice that the article was practically empty? That it was maybe, at most, five hundred words? Sorry, correct that, I just ran it through a word processor: 240 words in the article, not counting title, byline, or advertising.

The article had NO MEANING. It was one of those things you say to your buddies while hanging around. "You know, if Leopard is as fast as Apple says so, MS could be in deep [insert colorful adjective here]." Then you're promptly shot down by your friends, reminding you that the masses have a "Crapple" frame of mind because their last experience with Mac OS was with the pizza-box LC IIs running System 7 from back when they were in high school, and they don't care any more.

Not only does this bode poorly for Slashdot's credibility as having important and accurate information, but what does this say about journalism in general, when this passes for a good article. Oh, wait, it's not even an article! It's a blog posting! Do we even know who this Max Fomitchev is? I've never heard of him. This place is slowly becoming a rumor mill full of dupes.

Come back when you've got an article from a credible source, no less than 500 words, with some real analysis, facts to back it up, and maybe a cool graphic or charts or something. Until then, stop wasting my time.

You are all too negative (1)

Budenny (888916) | about 8 years ago | (#15666292)

You are all too negative about this idiotic little piece. Its value is enormous, not in what it says, but that it appears at all. What it is telling you is: it is too early to buy, and not too late to sell. As long as pieces like this are coming out and being linked to, we know that sentiment is absurdly optimistic. Don't worry, it will change.

So, Editors, pay not attention, keep linking to them as long as there are any to be found. When there are none, that's the interesting time. The rest of us will await with interest the arrival of the cluster of really negative ones. There was one swallow recently, Herb Greenberg's postings on his CBS blog. But it was only one. We need to see a whole flock....
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