Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Jeff Minter on Sony's Arrogance

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the anger-from-the-edge dept.

200

Regular Edge columnist Jeff Minter has lashed out at Sony over what he perceives as incredible arrogance on the console-maker's part. From the BBC article: "Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge, said: 'They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

... and? (0, Offtopic)

frosty_tsm (933163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679880)

Well, ofcourse we will rush right out. Even if several people are saying "Wii" or "360" because of the price, there are still millions saying "PS3! PS3!"

And of the argument of "it costs $600 and only plays games": How many people spend $1,500 or more on a gaming rig? Sure, it does other things than just games. But if a person spends $600 on a PS3, they have have $900 to buy a computer to do those "other things".

Re:... and? (1)

LCookie (685814) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679891)

Damn you must be stupid!

Re:... and? (2, Insightful)

sexyrexy (793497) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679903)

I have not heard these millions. Where do they live? Certainly not in the United States, Europe or Japan. When the Japanese' eyes go big over the price of some electronic doodad, it's probably too expensive.

That's not even starting with the other hundreds of Sony gaffes, a list of which would consume pages.

Re:... and? (4, Insightful)

Durinthal (791855) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680017)

The vast majority of people that will buy the PS3 haven't been online to discuss it, and never will. They haven't heard about all of the stupid things Sony's executives have said, or heard any of the discussions about why the controller has certain features like tilt sensing. These people will know nothing about the console except what they'll see on the side of the box after they buy it.

Re:... and? (1)

Telvin_3d (855514) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680219)

Great, so the first time they see the sticker price will be in the store sitting beside the 360 for half the price and the Wii for a third. I am sure that will improve Sony's sales.

Re:... and? (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680399)

Most of the people who buy the PS3 won't pay $600 for it. The Xbox 360 cost $600 when it launched last year since many people who really wanted it at launch were prepared to spend $200 over MSRP for it. Prices fall over time for game consoles.

Re:... and? (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680588)

The 360 only cost 600 when bundled with games. The equivalent PS3 bundle will be 800.

Re:... and? (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680673)

You miss my point. The 360 sold at auction for $600 with no games because people were willing to pay that price between launch and Christmas. Just as market factors forced the 360 price down (to its MSRP) after Christmas, I think Sony would lower the PS3 price if not enough people bought it at $600. If there's an excessive demand for the PS3, it could sell at auction for $800 with no games.

Re:... and? (1)

Square Snow Man (985909) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680254)

Yes, that is because they have not been brainwashed by news sites like this one, almost all negative nieuws that comes out is misundertood or misinterperted.

Re:... and? (1)

xigxag (167441) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680756)

I think you're underestimating the amount of young people who come online, or who read gaming magazines, or who have friends who do either of the above.

Re:... and? (2, Insightful)

Stompp (987549) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679905)

I've been a PC gamer for like... ever. But just knowing that I don't have to upgrade a component in a $600 gaming system to play the latest game every 6-12 months... hell there are video cards that run that much! In perspective, the PS3 IS a PC (cell processor yada yada), Blue-Ray whoopdie do, but consider the sheer amount of data they can throw on one of those discs? I am seriously considering picking one up. Now, give me a version of Linux that will run on it (with minimal hacking) and I'm sold!

Re:... and? (3, Interesting)

Compholio (770966) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679948)

Now, give me a version of Linux that will run on it (with minimal hacking) and I'm sold!

Wow, you haven't been paying attention - the more expensive version is supposed to have Linux pre-loaded on it from the factory.

Re:... and? (2, Informative)

Traiklin (901982) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680124)

both versions actually come with Linux pre-installed (it's to get around paying taxes), the $600 model comes with HDMI ports The Card reader and a 60gb hdd as default, the $500 model only has a 20gb model and you have to buy a card reader addon and there is no support for HDMI.

Re:... and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15681162)

You forgot to mention that both versions will come with rootkit pre-installed.

Sorry, just following you sig's directions.

Re:... and? (3, Interesting)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679984)

Maybe you missed the bulletin. The PS3 will be upgradeable. In the land of gaming, 'can be upgraded' is the same as 'must be upgraded.'

From http://news.spong.com/article/10210?cb=894 [spong.com]

we think it would be okay to [expand] the configuration once a year.

Re:... and? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679935)

That's assuming that a PS3 can do everything a gaming computer can in terms of gaming. It can't, so it fails as a computer.

And as a console, it doesn't have anything compelling over the 360 or the Wii, or even the PS2, to justify that price.

Even with all that, I might be rushing to buy one if I had any faith left in Rootkit Sony at all. I'm sorry, did I say "Rootkit Sony"? I meant "Anti-homebrew Sony". Or maybe "crippled PS2 Linux for $200 Sony".

Re:... and? (0, Troll)

Square Snow Man (985909) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680272)

FYI, the definition of computer differs from personal computer. And PlayStation 3 is a computer. If you think its a personal computer or not is up to you, and what you do with it. Stop being a Zonk trying to look cool by bashing a company based on speculation and information from 3e parties.

Re:... and? (3, Insightful)

Kesch (943326) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679979)

"Cheaper than a computer" has always been a feature of consoles, trying to justify the PS3 cost by comparing it to the computers is a bit of a strawman. Hell, if I buy a Wii, I can have $1250 left over for my "other things" machine.

As for these mythical hordes of people slobbering to buy the PS3, I have yet to see them. Please direct me to them. Honestly, everyone I talk to sees the PS3 to be like pulling teeth, they want to avoid it for as long as possible. Most of us know that in the future we might break down and buy a PS3 once the number of good exclusive third party titles for it is too good to pass up and it has undergone a theoretical drop in price. Meanwhile, I want the Wii like no one's business and it will probably be the first console ever that I will stand in line to have at launch.

Re:... and? (1)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680273)

I've already got the money set aside for it, and I'm placing an order for one the first day that I can. I'm not a "horde" of people, but I'm sure that I'm representative of some group of people that doesn't care what it costs, and just wants the best game console out there.

Re:... and? (1, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680653)

Then you should be buying a Wii.

Re:... and? (1)

cow_licker (172474) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680581)

The thing about the PS3 is that it won't even be that much cheaper than a PC. Because just like the xbox 360 last year, because with the unit shortage places will only be selling the ps3 in a bundle and who knows how high that will go?

Re:... and? (1)

Generic Guy (678542) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680624)

"Cheaper than a computer" has always been a feature of consoles, trying to justify the PS3 cost by comparing it to the computers is a bit of a strawman.

A bit!?! I just saw a Dell television commercial featuring a complete desktop computer (model B110 if I recall) for $299. What are folks (at least 'regular' people) going to think when mainstream computer setups are half the price of this new game console?

Re:... and? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15681263)

"I don't know anybody who would get a PS3" is much different than "nobody will buy a PS3." Last US presidential election I knew almost nobody who would vote Bush and were all confident that he would be a one termer because, hey... they didn't know ANYBODY who supported Bush. Guess what... Bush is still our president. The people you talk to most are most likely people who generally agree with you or don't express their opinion, otherwise you'd stop talking to them or they'd stop talking to you.

Paying for Potential (4, Interesting)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679897)

Last month Mr Stringer said: "The price of the PS3 is high but you're paying for potential."

Sorry, I'd rather pay for reality, in the form of real hardware, real games, and real fun.

Re:Paying for Potential (2, Insightful)

bcat24 (914105) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679923)

Touché. Potential doesn't matter. The PSP had a lot of potential, but it wasn't taken advantage of, IMHO. I wonder if the PS3 will go that route too.

Re:Paying for Potential (3, Insightful)

Xymor (943922) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679967)

Well the ps3 hardware is worth 600, probably much more, but most gamers are unwilling to pay 600 for a gaming console.
Real games and Real fun are up to developers. Sure Microsoft support for devs is better, so this could mean better games, but it isn't a contingency. Let's see how supportive Sony will be to the homebrew comunity and developers in general to decide if the ps3 is worth the extra development costs and if games are good enough for consumers.

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680329)

This isn't like Age of Empires. You don't plop down $600 and see your "hardware" resource kick up 600 points, ready to sell at the market for food or gold as needed.

That $600 will be tied to the console -- sink or swim.

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

dfedfe (980539) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679973)

Hells yeah, like Laser Tag!

Re:Paying for Potential (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680023)

Additionally, I won't buy hardware from a company that openly supports terrorists [engrish.com] !

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

NemosomeN (670035) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680249)

Sony's biggest risk is the massive amount of people who will "wait and see," which is precisely what I will do. For added perspective, I'm still in the "wait and see" stage in regard to the Xbox (Not 360). I'm pretty sure I'll pick one up soon though. Haha.

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

fish_in_the_c (577259) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680123)

odd to hear reality and games mentioned in the same sentence ;)
just made me chuckle a bit the juxtaposition.

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680374)

Reality is for people who can't handle games ;)

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

toiletsalmon (309546) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680544)

Yeah. I know what you mean. I paid for "potential" with the Atari Jaguar. And what did that get me?

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

YodaToad (164273) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681062)

A really pretty paperweight!

Re:Paying for Potential (1)

DSP_Geek (532090) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681093)

Wish in one hand and shit in the other - see which fills up faster.

Sony has the right to be arrogant (2, Insightful)

Astarica (986098) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679968)

PS and PS2 absolutely dominated their generation (yes I'm aware Nintendo may have made more money). PS3 strikes me as too expensive but then I'm not the average gamer so it's not up to me to decide if Sony's strategy is sound. If their strategy is right, then who are we to tell them not to do it? And if it's wrong, it's not my problem either.

Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (1)

ScaryFroMan (901163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680139)

Sony barely got more than half when fighting the N64. I wouldn't call it "Absolutely Dominated." They won, but not by that much.

Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (3, Insightful)

thelost (808451) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680320)

whether or not an individual or company (or Government!) has or does not have the right to be arrogant, this is usually the first step to a fall. I think people are beginning to become infuriated with Sony's attitude, I sure as hell would never consider getting a PS3, but that is beside the point.

Good salesmanship and business starts with respecting your customers, Sony's attitude suggests they see their customers as sheep incapable of saying No! even though the product placed before them is overpriced, overhyped and underwhelming.

Nintendo will be one of the winners of this next round of console wars, simply on the basis that they tend towards modesty and don't come off like such fucking jerks.

They may be right... (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679986)

I know a guy who's going to buy a PS3 just because the next Ace Combat game will require it.

I wont buy Sony (2, Interesting)

p!ssa (660270) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679988)

I know personally I will never buy another Sony product, it seems as if this company has completely lost touch with reality. Its like they have a corporate mentality that they are a government and we live by thier rules vs. our dollars determine thier fate. At least the White House/neo con republican movement trys to put a positive spin on bad policy for the people, Sony is just clueless. Next they are just going to put out one sentence press releases:

PS3, suck it down bitches!!
Viao, suck it down bitches!!!
Rootkit, suck it down and bend over bitches!!!

brb, phone call...

HEY!!, I'm the new VP of Sony Public Relations!!! (suck it down bitches)

In Soviet Amerika, Sony owns you (TM)

Re:I wont buy Sony (4, Interesting)

faust2097 (137829) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680107)

The fact that this was tagged "insightful" is pretty pathetic. Of course so is applying an "attitude" to a multibillion dollar multinational corporation.

Sony is big because they have a reputation for making quality products. Whether or not they deserve that is up for debate but when they do get something right they tend to nail it. Sony went from a distant 10th in LCD marketshare to #1 in 2 years with the Bravia line. The Playstation and the PS2 have totally dominated the console space for the last decade. If I ran a company that had sold 200 million systems and 2 billion games in the last decade I'd be pretty proud of myself too.

The problem right now is that since the games aren't ready to look at the PS3 mindspace is basically a giant echo chamber so the loudest shouter gets the most attention completely independat of the quality of their message.

Re:I wont buy Sony (2, Insightful)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680333)

Sony is big because they have a reputation for making quality products

Problem: Sony is not doing now what it was doing before it became big. Isn't the definition of insanity doing two completely different things and expecting the same result?

Re:I wont buy Sony (0, Flamebait)

some guy on slashdot (914343) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680486)

I work in a tech shop. When we get laptops back from repair at Sony, they always come with a little insert that reads something like this:

Thank you for choosing Sony. Your Sony Vaio is designed for maximum durability. However, do not put pressure on the system, as this may cause LCD damage. Thank you.

Translation: Your Vaio is very, very easy to break. Thank you for choosing Sony.

Re:I wont buy Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680712)

No, it means "don't sit on it, lardass". They're as durable as anything else.

Why women stay in abusive relationships (0, Offtopic)

notBowen (811056) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680021)

Tekken.

PS3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680077)

PS3 will either change the entire landscape of consoles forever, or it will bomb. I don't think there is any way around it. If it succeeds, all the other companies will jump on the bandwagon.

Which makes me just want to play stupid, addicting, text-based web-browser like Awakenedlands.com . Check them out.

http://www.awakenedlands.com/register.php?refid=14 28 [awakenedlands.com]

Sony's assumption (2, Insightful)

Shadarr (11622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680089)

They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.
That is exactly what they're saying. The thing is, they may be right. I really don't see the 360 picking up a lot of ground in Japan, especially if Final Fantasy remains PS exclusive. It remains to be seen how much marketshare Nintendo can pick up in any region, since it's really not competing directly. People who want what the PS3 offers will have to choose between the PS3 and the 360. They may choose to also buy a Wii, because hey, it costs half as much, but that doesn't result in lost sales for Sony. In North America, the 360 will probably take most of Sony's market because it does the same things for less money and with better online support.

The real question I see is, can Sony make money even if they sell 20 million units? Sure, a lot of people choke on the $600 price tag but most analysts figure it still doesn't cover the manufacturing costs. They seem to be willing to take a loss on the PS3 to try to win the HD format war. But if that bet doesn't pay off they could be stuck with a loss leader that doesn't lead anywhere.

Conflict of Interest (3, Insightful)

Aim Here (765712) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680136)

Mighty respect to the Yak, n'all, and Sony are certainly a bunch of pisstakers, but Jeff did write the light synth that was bundled with the Xbox360 so he might not be a completely fair and unbiased observer here.

You might want to bear that small fact in mind...

Re:Conflict of Interest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680246)

Yah good point. Maybe that's why it's the first line in the article.

Re:Conflict of Interest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680252)

He also worked for Nintendo. He's not a big "brand loyalty" guy, it's more like "a job is a job" buy yea, Sony didn't offer him a job, which may be why he feels free to be completely honest about how much they suck. (*chuckle!*)

Re:Conflict of Interest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680292)

Sony management do have a reputation for being arrogant.

I've heard from startup company directors from the UK who have visited their
offices in Japan to do a presentation, only to be shown the door and told that
their work was of no use since Sony already had that technology in their labs.

And they do have a habit of "switching the brightest graduates onto the
most challenging problems" regardless of whatever was said at the interview.

That's What I See (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680181)

I see this generation as pure arrogance. I thought the $400 price of a 360 stupid. But asking either $500 or $600 for a console is just insane. They aren't even offering anything great. The videos I've seen of the PS3 games look like 360 games. The interface is basically the same as the analog controller introduced during the PS1 life-cycle. They have basically NOTHING to justify the cost in my eyes. Those have no large line-up of killer games. Heck, I've yet to see a game that really makes me take notice. Some (Assassin's Creed) seem interesting, but many of those (like it seems Assassin's Creed) won't be exclusive.

I bought a PS2 on launch due to "good will" with Sony. I knew they would come through. They did... but it took a long time. My PS2 has probably seen more use as a DVD player than a PS2 (thanks, mostly, to Netflix and TV show DVDs).

I bought a PSP on launch due to "good will" but I now regret that. There have been basically 3 games for it that I found that I like. Burnout (beat it, tired of it), Hot Shots (beat it, tired of it), and Lumines (I've spent so many hours on it, I'm tired of it). At this point in the console's life, I expected to have liked more than 3 games. And you know what's coming up that I'm looking forward to? Lumines 2, and that's just "more of the same" so I probably won't even get it. What a waste of my money. The DS was slow to start but after about 6 months it took off flying with great games.

They lost all their gaming good will. They would have a half-decent chance at $300. At $400 getting me to buy one would be a real stretch. At $500 it is a wait and see approach. At their $600 price, it's a wait and see what hits the used market 2 years later to see if it would be near my price point.

So far, only Nintendo has announced games that I consider "must haves". It's it so odd that that keeps happening every generation? The PS2 had some, the XBox had one or two (Jet Grind Radio Future and Shenmue II). The 360 and PS3 are currently lacking such titles. I have a list of about 6 for the Wii.

This is What I See (-1, Flamebait)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680256)

The PS2 was the best thing on the market, hands-down. The PS3 will have mind-blowing hardware, and the games will be available. I also use my PS2 as my main DVD player, as I will my PS3. I like playing old games and not having to buy them again. I have no problem paying $600 or more for the PS3. I'm not buying the XBox 360, and I can't wait for the PS3.

Re:This is What I See (1)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680449)

"I like playing old games and not having to buy them again."

I assume this is in refrence to backward compatiablity. I have to ask, what is making you throw out your old hardware?

Re:This is What I See (0, Troll)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680507)

Nothing. From what I understand, XBox 360 doesn't natively play old games. Neither does the Nintendo "Wheee" or whatever it's called. I don't throw out my old consoles, but I don't want to have 3 of them plugged in, either.

Re:This is What I See (1)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680533)

The Wii will play all GCN games, natively. And then there is the Virtual console.

Re:This is What I See (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680726)

MS has repeatedly promised that they won't stop the backwards compatibility program until every single Xbox game runs on the Xbox 360. Right now, they're maybe a third of the way there...

What I don't get is why does it matter whether the 360 is playing the old games "natively" at all? They look and behave identically to the same game on the Xbox, whether or not it's emulated.

Re:This is What I See (1)

Clover_Kicker (20761) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680587)

> I have to ask, what is making you throw out your old hardware?

Lack of space?

Finite number of inputs into my TV?

Re:This is What I See (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680812)

Lack of space?

A cheap shelving unit [ikea.com] would solve that problem. I got a nice metal shelving unit (similar to this [ikea.com] but with only three shelves) a while back that looks good and holds quite a bit of stuff. Plus, it's completely open so I don't have to worry about heating issues like with a fully enclosed "media center" rack (I never understood why you'd put hot, sensitive electronics in a fully enclosed rack).

Finite number of inputs into my TV?

Get a mux [audioauthority.com] . My current personal favorite is the AA1154 [audioauthority.com] component switch. If you don't need component, you can get switches for composite/s-video [audioauthority.com] or even DVI [audioauthority.com] (and thus HDMI, since the two convert back and forth easily). Granted, the Audio Authority switches are expensive, but there are many [gamestop.com] PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=4">other options [etoys.com] out [videogamecentral.com] there [google.com] depending on the feature you want and the price you're willing to pay.

Re:This is What I See (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15681065)

Let me guess. you don't have a wife or live-in girlfriend... even a hardcore geek chick wouldn't put up with that.

Re:This is What I See (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680452)

The PS2 had market share and lots of games, but I would argue that the GameCube had better, and more reliable, hardware. How many people are on their second or third PS2? The Xbox has also had its share of hardware problems. I'd like to see the optical drives replaced with flash cards, like on the Nintendo DS, if flash ever gets cheap enough.

Re:That's What I See (4, Interesting)

Akaihiryuu (786040) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680773)

I was in EB Games at the mall today, and they had a PS3 E3 propoganda video (it was obviously produced by Sony) on...it was all I could do to keep from falling over laughing. Here is a direct quote: "They took the rumble feature out of the controller, that makes it lighter and more ergonomic. And it now has 6 degrees of freedom with NO EXTERNAL SENSORS REQUIRED! This is the most innovative controller I've ever seen! The 60-gig model is only $599, and the 20-gig model is only $499!!!" (it was obviously either a Sony PR drone or a media drone that Sony paid). Um...taking the rumble out makes it lighter and more ergonomic, so that's a good thing? They didn't even mention Nintendo, who blew everyone away at E3 and stole the show...Sony was virtually ignored, so it's likely that "E3 video" was really just Sony propoganda in disguise. That was the most arrogant piece of BS I've ever seen...even Microsoft hasn't put out propoganda that bad, and that's saying something.

Re:That's What I See (1)

comp.sci (557773) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681075)

The parent comment demonstrates Sony's real problem:
If even such dedicated gamers like the author of the post are not willing to pay for the new PS then they are in real trouble.
To us much more casual gamers the high price and low expected features will be even more of a deterrent!
To be honest I don't mind Sony getting negative press since we should all still remember their CD-rootkits. (which is yet another reason to not buy anything they make!)

It's all about the price (1)

Animats (122034) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680183)

The combination of late to market, higher price, and harder to develop for is a killer combo.

So much negative news... I smell astroturf (3, Insightful)

nathanh (1214) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680198)

"Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge, said: 'They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.'"

Well, no, I'll be buying it to play the games.

What amazes me is that an expensive console is nothing new. The Playstation was almost twice the cost of the next dearest console. The Playstation 2 was also the most expensive console from that generation. I bought both of them. Approximatedly 100 million people bought the damn things. Obviously cost isn't that important an issue.

So what is the important issue? The games, of course. There are games on the PS3 that won't exist on other consoles. I'll be buying the console to play the games. I don't buy it because it's "new". In fact, I'm most likely to wait for the first price drop because there will be too few compelling launch titles.

And what's this about price?

when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles

I don't care! That's not an issue. It might have been an issue back when I was a teenager and had to beg my parents for money, but I have a job now and I can afford to buy things. The cost of a PS3 pales in comparison to the cost of running my car. My "video game habit" is still an order of magnitude cheaper than the booze and cigarette habit that infects 99% of the population.

These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680297)

>>These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.

I couldn't disagree more.

I think that nowadays the demographic is spread about much farther. Instead of switching from 5-15 year olds to 25-35 year olds, we switched from 5-15 year olds to 5-35 year olds.

If the demographic was as lopsided as you suggest, where are all the pr0n games? Surely today's consoles and 3D engines could put something better together than hotcoffee, that 25-35 year olds with heaps of disposable income would buy up.

Go look at the store shelves, a good chunk of games are games based on the latest made-for-kids CGI piece of crap.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (1)

nathanh (1214) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680331)

I couldn't disagree more. I think that nowadays the demographic is spread about much farther. Instead of switching from 5-15 year olds to 25-35 year olds, we switched from 5-15 year olds to 5-35 year olds.

Read this [dict.org] .

I hope that helps.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (1, Redundant)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680468)

the PS1 cost 100$ less than the saturn, the n64 wasn't out at the time. ps2 cost the same as the xbox.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (4, Insightful)

Frac (27516) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680628)

These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.
I envy the fact you live out of your parent's basement and spend all your dispensable income on video games, but for those of us who pay rent or mortgage or save money to invest in, we don't care for a $600 console when the $200 one has more fun games to play.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680640)

My "video game habit" is still an order of magnitude cheaper than the booze and cigarette habit that infects 99% of the population.

Gosh, I like all three of those things- at once. I suppose I'm fucked.

Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (2, Insightful)

some guy on slashdot (914343) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680699)

There are games on the PS3 that won't exist on other consoles.

Given. There will undoubtedly also be games like this for the 360 and Wii (especially the Wii.) The question is, will those games be fun enough to justify the costs, especially when compared to the 360's excellent online infrastructure and Wii's new controller, which are going to be delivering cutting edge experiences?

It seems to me like Sony is relying too heavily on franchises which had very bad installments on their previous generation hardware to carry the next generation hardware. In Japan, this may be less of a problem because the series are cultural icons. But we USians remember FFX and FFX-2, we remember Metal Gear Solid 2 and its transgressions against the very meaning of the word "game." We're aware that Kingdom Hearts 2 is weak on gameplay. And we remember that those games came out at premium prices. Now with the price of entry before even buying those games so high, I can't see any good reason to keep buying into that cultural vein; it has a recent history of delivering pretty but unfun products.

Not to mention that I can get a Wii, 2 DS lites, and Crystal Chronicles Wii for less money than it costs to buy the PS3 alone, and it's likely to be the most fun Final Fantasy game coming up any time soon.

The curse of Minter (2, Funny)

Threni (635302) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680206)

> Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge,

That's it for Edge, then!

Deserved arrogance has a reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680235)

Perhaps we can agree that Sony's arrogance is deserved. They have demolished every competitor in the home console (not handheld) market in terms of installed units for as long as they have been in that market. I've always been happier as an owner of Nintendo and Sega consoles (because of their respective first-party efforts), but I've also been very satisfied with my PS and PS2 thanks to the third-parties.

However, I think they're not just being pricks for no reason at all. I have to believe that every statement that they've made has been planned to give off the air of invulnerability. They are trying to stop Microsoft's perceived forward momentum and push their own way forward with a bluff. That bluff is that PS3 is going to win the next generation, so you better prepare to shell out for it now. Of course, the fallacy is obvious. But unfortunately, a sizable number of PS3 buyers is going to buy into that idea and will therefore contribute to the self-fulfillment of this prophecy.

Sony can't (and don't want to) play the value card, so they have to play the power and functionality cards, as they did with PSP. Here, they see that Nintendo is right: The industry has hit the point of diminishing returns as far as graphics is concerned. However, they don't learn the same lesson Nintendo does (that graphics can take a back seat for a while). Instead, they decide to tank onward, beating the 360's specs at whatever price. Simply, in order to distinguish themselves from the competition, they need to look better and be able to do more. And since Sony's projets du jour are 1080p, BluRay, and convergence, they are throwing it all in the mix. In Sony's mind, if they reach anywhere close to the market penetration of the PS or PS2 with the PS3, they will basically have won BluRay customers (in the home as well as on the content production side). That's why they are willing to bet on tying it all into one box, at high cost.

It's all a gamble for Sony. But I think Sony has been pulling the strings on many more of the variables than people realize. There is simply no other explanation for all the controversy that has been part of Sony's M.O. during the run up to the PSP and the PS3. They better hope that it works better for them with the latter than it did for the former. It would be interesting to see how well any their behind-the-scenes orchestration worked a couple of years into the next hardware generation.

Wait, There's more... (0, Flamebait)

BroadbandBradley (237267) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680258)

Sony has way more up it's sleeve than any article I've seen recently about the impending demise of Sony has taken into consideration.

PS3 + PSP means so much more.... multiplayer gaming with the TV giving a birds eye view, and each players first person perspective on thier PSP. or using your PSP as a universal remote control. Being able to get your media collection streamed to your PSP (I do this now with TVersity(or try PSPITunes), but it's a pain to browse, subscribe to rss, close browser, open rss, listen to music....) Using your PS3 as a DVR and watching from a WiFi hot spot somewhere else.
Look at some of the other goodies coming like VOIP for PSP, GPS sensor, and a camera for games and Video calls. I just hope they get a Camera/GPS unit in one for GPS tagged video's and pictures. How about 7000 PS1 games available for download to your PSP by the end of next year? I'd bet you could get those on your PS3 if you wanted to but haven't heard anything to that effect (or use the PS3 to store your PSP downloads until you need them. How about those PDA Apps on your PSP? PSP in education as a learning tool for trades or a portable tech manual for mobile workers.

Sony has all this potential with this hardware, and they are in a good position to make money from additional services like movie or music or game download services and such.

Re:Wait, There's more... (4, Insightful)

goMac2500 (741295) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680368)

Either you're a Sony marketing bot, or this entire post is satire. Multiplayer gaming with a birds eye view from the PSP? Right. Like that's never been done before (Nintendo). Using your PSP as a remote control? How? Why? Who cares? What's wrong with a normal remote control? My media collection streamed to my PSP? Why would I want to stream it to a tiny stream when I'm going to be streaming it in my house with a big TV? PS3 DVR? How is that supposed to work? I haven't seen Cable card or a coax connector on the PS3. Normally a DVR does kinda need one of those. PS3 as a portable WiFi hotspot? Gee that's great, I'll haul around a $600 router with me. VOIP? Because the N-Gage didn't really well. Video calls? Yeah, that's a huge market there. A GPS? Right, because I'm going to take my PSP hiking with me with it's 10 hour battery life. Do I need to buy a solar panel too? 7000 PS1 games? First, I'll eat my sock if that many really are available. Secondly... why do I care? I can play PS1 games on a freakin 5 year old Macintosh. Use the PS3 to store my PSP downloads? So the PS3 has a hard drive. OOooooo. Impressive. PDA apps on the PSP? With what input? So far the only console succeeding at all as a PDA is the DS. Same for education.

Sony has very little potential. They're wrapping up all these buzzwords trying to impress us, when in actuality, half the stuff they promise doesn't exist yet, and the other half they'll promise and never deliver. The entire Sony gaming division must be stocked with the same people in charge of Vista. Cramming yesterday's technology into something high priced, and filling it with buzzwords most consumers don't care about. I don't care whether or not I'm paying $600 for 600 buzzwords. It's not new, it's not original, and for the most part, those features don't actually exist. Seriously... a DVR? You're talking about things that require connectors that aren't even on the PS3.

PSP as remote (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680730)

Actually I have been thinking for some time about hacking the PSP to use as a dedicated remote (no game use).

The PSP has straight-up wireless so it would be easier to tie into a home network (correct me if I am wrong but the DS wireless is not quite standard, not to mention the hacking scene there does not seem as big).

One thing a PSP would give you is "Picture out of Picture" - you could stream one video feed while another was playing on the primary screen, perhaps warn you when it detected commercials were over. I think it could do a lot more interesting and useful things than a standard remote. I have no idea if Sony is actually planning to do any of those things but it does not mean it's not a potentially good deivce as a remote.

Re:Wait, There's more... (1)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680504)

Unless it can cook me a steak and murder an intruder, then I don't think it deserves a $500 price tag.

Re:Wait, There's more... (1)

eieken (635333) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680762)

The only way Sony can pull this monster together is if they can leverage the monster intellectual property Sony has onto these devices at very low/free cost, then all this broohaha is nothing. Hardware is hardware, hardware doesn't matter if there is no software on it. My friend with lots of disposable income was considering buying one of those "magic" remotes you call the PSP, but when he looked at the game selection he reconsidered. I have a bad feeling this is going to happen with PS3 too. Unless Sony can pull its head up out of it's own ass and decide to put something consumers REALLY want on the table. Not buzzwords and not gimmicks.

Enough FUD (-1, Troll)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680301)

OK, I'm quickly becoming one of the many, many people that are leaving Slashdot for good over the unbelievably bad articles that are posted these days. Every day that I can remember for the past few months, there's been AT LEAST one anti-PS3 FUD article. Two that I can see today.

Slashdot editors: NOBODY FUCKING CARES. Those of us who want the PS3 will buy it. Those who don't want it won't buy it. It has no bearing on... well... anything. All of these articles that are re-hashed opinions of people who don't like the non-existent Sony PS3 are pointless shit that will accomplish nothing (no, nobody's mind will be made up by some random blogger pontificating about Sony). Mod me down. I'm just really sick and tired of this crap.

Guess I'd better see what's going on over at digg...

Re:Enough FUD (1)

oxymor00n (780866) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680360)

> Guess I'd better see what's going on over at digg...

3 Articles a day that praise Nintendo probably ;-)

It's not all the editors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680386)

It's just Zonk that's the problem here. As usual. Sigh...

Re:Enough FUD (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680434)

Slashdot's games section has gotten to the point that makes me thankful I can buy my games online.* I'd hate to be at a store populated by people hovering near the PS3 case shouting "WRONG!" [google.com] at everyone who even considers buying a console of which they disapprove.

* Disclaimer: I work at a company that sells games online, this does not represent my company's opinion, etc

Re:Enough FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680804)

There is at least 1 Anti-Sony article a day on digg. PS3 is an expensive turd and we don't need anymore PS3 fanboys on Digg. We mod them down to -43 for being retarded.

Re:Enough FUD (1)

linvir (970218) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681046)

Nobody cares? Believe me, if nobody cared, there'd be no pageviews on the ads on these stories, and they would stop posting them. But no, what we actually have is plenty of clicks, and plenty of discussion, so I guess some people do care.

I do love a good 'FUCK YOU I HATE THIS BULLSHIT WEBSITE I'M GOING TO DIGG NOW' farewell post, though.

Re:Enough FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15681068)

no, nobody's mind will be made up by some random blogger pontificating about Sony


Random blogger my ass, motherfucker. Jeff Minter forgot more about game design and software engineering than you'll ever know.

Who cares what the inital price is? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680314)

I'm sure that if Microsoft set the 360 at $600 for its initial price for "Premium" that it would've sold out too. Sony's just smarter than Microsoft because they've finally learned this, and once sales start to slow down at $600, it'll drop to $500, then $400, then probably $350, then $350+games, &c.

And not to beat the bush, but Microsoft hasn't announced their price for their HD-DVD addon yet, and if that costs ~$100, then it's a moot argument (And sorry for ignoring you UK people, I know you're getting slammed)

I would want a PS3, if it was a "computer" (1)

jpardey (569633) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680324)

I know, Sony has previously claimed that the ps2 would be a computer, but didn't bother. However, they had to pay the taxes anyway. I think they have more incentive as such to make it a general purpose computer. And if they don't, start a class action law suit to open the hardware, as it was bought on the condition that it would be a general purpose computer.

Hmmm (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680334)

Part of me thinks "maybe they know how deep a hole they've dug themselves, but at this point the only thing to do is keep digging and hope you come out the other side"

arrogance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680398)

everyone is calling sony arrogant, i guess because they are the market leader. but nintendo is saying this playing is believing stuff and being very confident that it doesn't matter that the machine isn't as powerful it will be more fun than the others. that sounds rather arrogant but all depends on your perspective.

Re:arrogance? (1)

FSWKU (551325) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680689)

everyone is calling sony arrogant, i guess because they are the market leader.

No, everyone is calling Sony arrogant because they ARE. Let's take stock here:
  • Arrogant in thinking they would get away with putting rootkits on CD's
  • Arrogant in announcing that people will buy a $600 game system (even without any games) just because it says "Sony" on the box.
  • Arrogant in claiming they were the first to deliver realtime computer generated 3D graphics (Nintendo was first in the mainstream with Star Fox, while Atari was the first PERIOD with Battlezone in the arcades some 24 years ago).
  • Arrogant in claiming that they were the first with a CD based storage system for video games (SegaCD and Sega Saturn, anyone?).
Hating on the market leader for their position is one thing. This, however, is calling a spade a spade. Sony has proven that they don't give a flying frack about the consumer, the reactions they're receiving because of this are more than justified.

Too Pricey for Players, what about the Retailers? (3, Insightful)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680597)

How many Units do you think an average store will stock?
Every Wal*Mart, every Target, every Sears, every Fred Meyer, every EB-Games...

If I were in charge of electronics inventory for a major chain, I'd have to think long and hard... If they don't sell, will Sony reimburse? Should each store stock 10 Wii's 10 360's and 10 PS3's?, or 30 Wii's, 10 360's and 5 PS 3's?

Which would make the store more profit? 30 Wii's plus 1-3 games each, or 10 PS3's with 0-2 game each? (If it comes with Linux, many will not be used for retail games)

How many pre-orders will end up not being redeemed, because the customer can't afford it?

Spending $600 for a game console is one thing, but if you're the guy who bought $60,000,000 worth for your company, and only 50% of them sell, who's gonna get blamed for the lost $30,000,000?

But then, if you stock too few, and the competition gets all the sales profit...

money back guarantee (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680970)

In the purchasing contracts, many retailers require that they can get their money back from the manufacturer if the product doesn't sell.

Re:Too Pricey for Players, what about the Retailer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15681074)

Don't be silly. Consoles at launch sell very well. They often sell out. I doubt there's a Walmart in America that couldn't sell 10 PS3s in the first 10 days.
That doesn't mean it's not priced idiotically high for the non-fanboy, it just means there's a million fanboys out there.

Yak Attack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680637)

What do you expect him to say. He fell in love with per-pixel-power and worships the almighty 360 now. I guess it doesn't hurt that he's on Microsoft's payroll. Jeff Minter a 'softie?? Say it ain't so, Yak, say it ain't so.

Sony has all the arrogance of Apple (1, Insightful)

Orion Blastar (457579) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680700)

Switch PS3 for Mac Mini, and Sony for Apple, and you just figured out Apple's marketing stradgedy.

Apple knows that people will pay more for a Macintosh than a PC. If the Mac Mini costs $600 and the generic PC clone costs $300, Apple knows that millions of people will buy a Mac Mini anyway despite it being twice the price of the low-end PC. The low-end PC being one without a monitor, keyboard, and mouse like the low end Mac the Mac Mini.

Apple also knows that people will buy a $5000 Macintosh system with all the features and software for video editing, even if that low-end PC with lower quality hardware can also edit video with an el-cheapo video capture card for less than $1000.

I guess Sony is trying to say, like Apple does, that its products have a superior quality to them, and are easier to use, and thus worth the extra money to buy them. Sony seems to think that the Blu-Ray technology alone is worth the $600 price of a PS3, because every movie that Sony's Movie division releases to home video will be on the Blu-Ray DVD format and not be able to be played on HD-DVD and standard DVD players.

Sony crack dealt by Santa Claus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680724)

Sony knows that many millions of parents will buy PS3s because buying a video games console for the kids at Christmas is just what you do nowadays. Just today I saw posters up in a toy shop saying 'guarantee yourself a PS3 in November, just £50 deposit!' The Wii was £25 deposit. Parents will think, hmm, £50 isn't too bad.

I mean, anyone remember the Tomy Barcode Battler? My aunt bought me one simply because it was a gaming system (definitely not a video game, although it had been reduced down to like £10 by one of the local department stores that never learns, every so often the toy department has a big stack of something going at less than half price, although I think they sensibly didn't get too much stock of Philips CD-is or Amiga CD-32s).

Use the "zonked" tag, luke! (1, Troll)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680739)

Don't forget everyone, when you see an anti-Sony article use that "zonked" tag! It will be an impressive site come November when you search and see how anti-Sony Slashdot has become.

Following the Money---Anti-Sony ads paid for by (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680856)

Nintendo. Pity they can't compete, pity they can't create, too bad they can only destroy...

Two life long demographics I know of have already turned their backs on the company thanks Nintendo's betrayal and Mario and his uncontrollable flatulance (Mario golf, Mario tennis, Mario does ...

Re:Following the Money---Anti-Sony ads paid for by (1)

Russellkhan (570824) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681214)

I think you may be following badly. Minter's product is on the XBox360.

Smug? (2, Funny)

Megane (129182) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681083)

UK video gaming stalwart Jeff Minter has criticised Sony for being "smug" about its PlayStation 3 console. Smug? Right now, Sony have more smug than a batallion of Priuses, driven by OS X users, all playing iPods and using Netwons!

Go, Yak, go!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?