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A Lost Miyamoto Project - Super Mario 128

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the someday dept.

54

Wowzer writes "After the 1996 release of Super Mario 64, magazines for years mentioned Super Mario 128 - a game that would feature both Mario & Luigi for release on the N64 or its 64DD add-on. Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto lays the game to rest as one of his lost projects. From the article: 'Super Mario 128 was just one of many experimental games we had. Suddenly, everybody started talking about it. I'm in the all-too easy habit of starting a project only to later on not do much of it. There is a great deal of unfinished work on my desk. I worked on a prototype for the Nintendo 64 game with Mario and Luigi in it for some time." As it turns out elements of Super Mario 128 live on in Super Mario Galaxy on Wii.'"

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I can't remember exactly... (1, Redundant)

gforce811 (903907) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676457)

Didn't they use the basis of this game as a tech demo for the Gamecube at one point?

(You know, to show of the polygon processing count)

Re:I can't remember exactly... (1)

smaerd (954708) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676558)

Yeah, it's mentioned in TFA.

Re:I can't remember exactly... (5, Interesting)

RyoShin (610051) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676583)

The "Mario 128" demo you refer to for the Gamecube was nothing more than a tech demo. It had 128 Marios on a small sphere of a world walking around, hitting each other, tripping over each other, and doing a good deal of other stuff.

Just like the Meowth Pokemon singing video and the Link/Ganon fight, it was purely a tech demo. There was wild speculation about potential games arising from each demo, but I don't believe any of them were fruitful (well, except the Too Human demo, which apparently debuted to lackluster results on the XBox/360.)

Speaking of the Link/Ganon demo, while the graphics I've seen for Twilight Princess are awesome, I will be disappointed if I don't get some FMVs that look as beautiful as the originall 2001 demo did (especially since I plan on getting the Wii version).

Re:I can't remember exactly... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15676729)

Too Human was a game that was in development forever ...

Originally, before SK was a Nintendo second party, Too Human was to be released on the Playstation (in 1997 IIRC); later Nintendo aquired SK and it was announced that Too Human had moved development to the N64 (to be released in 1999 IIRC); then Too Human was moved to the Gamecube where it (pretty much) was just vaporware for a generation and it was finally released on the XBox 360.

I'm actually surprised it was ever released ...

Re:I can't remember exactly... (1)

JFMulder (59706) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676871)

well, except the Too Human demo, which apparently debuted to lackluster results on the XBox/360Actually, the game had a great reception at E3, except for the obvious frame rate issues. People just picked up the controller and started playing immediately because the controls are so intuitive. The frame rate issue, while unfortunate at E3, is something that will likely be fixed before release and will make one hell of a game, based on footage I saw. There's no date tagged to the product, so there's hope it won't be rushed. Anyway, if the game has been in development for as long as 1997 as someone else pointed out, postponing the game a few more months to fix this issue is probably not a big concern to those guys.

Re:I can't remember exactly... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15678968)

If you do a search for pictures or video of the Spaceworld Link/Ganon demo, It really doesn't look as good as you might remember. The Link and Ganon models in SSB: Melee look infinitely more polished than they looked in the Spaceworld tech demo. IMO the Twilight Princess visuals destroy them.

Inspiration from Mario 128 demo... (1)

Man In Black (11263) | more than 8 years ago | (#15684573)

It has been rumored that the Mario 128 demo eventually inspired (or perhaps even evolved into) Pikmin... basically the only carry-over is the idea of having a large number of characters moving around, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15676670)

How can the first post be redundant?

Re:MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15679835)

If it's repeating the content in the article. How many times do we have to go over this?!?!

Re:Yes, sort of (3, Informative)

Psykechan (255694) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676761)

There was a demo early on showcasing some of the processing power of the Gamecube by displaying dozens of little Mario characters running around on the screen. Some game journalists referred to that as being "Mario 128".

The tech demo would eventually be reworked and refined to become "Pikmin".

Not surprised (4, Insightful)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676478)

I would be surprised if he didn't have unfinished work on his desk. The fact that he's using elements from 128 in Galaxies probably means that only the best parts were used and the rest was fodder. The fact that 128 stayed unfinished is probably a good thing.

Projects (2, Insightful)

CodemasterMM (943136) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676488)

I'm sure there's thousands, if not millions, of ideas and projects that he has thought upon or even started on. To simply badger at him for laying one to rest shouldn't be too harsh; at least he mentioned it was half-alive in Super Mario Galaxy, meaning he combined ideas he had - usually a very difficult thing to do for game designers.

Re:Projects (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15677124)

Millions of ideas? C'mon dude.

Re:Projects (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678048)

Millions? Thousands? I'd be happy if he just worked on more than 2 (Zelda and Mario).

What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

Cocoa Radix (983980) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676513)

Speaking of the 64DD, what ever happened to that thing? So many people used to talk about it, and Nintendo Power had it in its "Most Wanted" list for a long time...and then nothing ever happened. I believe we were promised a new "Earthbound" game, as well, the production of which was delayed so that it could be released as a 64DD game. What happened to that?

All 64DD indicates to anyone now is Scarlett Johansson's bra size.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (2, Informative)

revlayle (964221) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676564)

well, Earthbound 2 was canceled before the death of the 64DD was offical, IIRC (which I may not)

of course, Earthbound 2 (or Mother 3 as it is called) lives on for the GBA now. Only in Japanese, though, for now. From what I had read, most of the characters and story elements from 64DD version was used to make the GBA game (which resembles a lot like Earthbound / Mother 2 in look).

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (3, Informative)

77Punker (673758) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676568)

It was released in Japan and was a commercial failure. I would've loved to have one, though, even if only to play with the F-Zero X track editor and to have some nice new tracks to race on. I don't know what other games were actually released for it, but I'm sure there were more.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (2, Insightful)

anti-human 1 (911677) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676853)

What the random track generator in F-Zero X wasn't enough for you? Some of those tracks would be crazy as hell, where most of the CPU players flew off :P. That game is the biggest reason I was pissed as hell when my 64 was lost/stolen. pissed. as. hell.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676867)

Wait, you're telling me there's a random track generator? I've never even HEARD of that one before. I was pretty good at it in years past but I don't play any more because my N64 controller joysticks are messed up and I have no good controllers for my computer. I'm planning on buying F-Zero X on the virtual console for the Wii as soon as I can. Tell me more about this "random track" feature.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (0, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677213)

Google is your friend [fuckinggoogleit.com] . The answer is actually in the GameSpot review, which I found on Amazon.

abuse of moderation (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15691563)

This is clearly abusive moderation; I suspect it was carried out by a crony of the person I insulted... but regardless, it's only trolling when you say something you don't believe. I Really do believe the guy is an idiot.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (3, Informative)

PhotoBoy (684898) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677885)

Instead of trolling like the other reply, I'll be helpful. ;)

IIRC you unlock the random track mode by completing the Joker cup on Expert difficulty. It then shows up as the X Cup and randomly generates new tracks each time you play. And as the grandparent poster said, some tracks would cause all the CPU cars to go flying off the track to their deaths!

And I must say that I still prefer F-Zero X to GX.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678399)

If the Wikipedia article is to be believed, there is no random track generator. There is the X cup, which randomly selects from around 70 crappy tracks, but they are actually not randomly generated.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

anti-human 1 (911677) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679334)

mmmm. I think even with 70 tracks to choose from, I would have caught on. Maybe not. I played the hell out of F-zero X back then.

I'd prove it once and for all if I still had a 64... Perhaps we'll settle this on the virtual console :P

I thought the "random" tracks were just snippets of tracks put together, because sometimes they wouldn't seem very cohesive. It's been too long. There's been a lot of counterstrike between then and now. kills brain cells.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

anti-human 1 (911677) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679669)

I did a little more digging. Gamefaqs backs up the random track generator claim, as does the gamespot review via amazon.com that was mentioned a few parents back. I think my impression was closest, it is snippets of different types of tracks. You'll find typical cylinders and halfpipes, but some tracks will have all manners of obstacles. I always found it enjoyable.

I wish I knew where the wiki article was getting its information. I suppose that's the whole purpose of the peer review, eh?

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681178)

Sounds rad. I wish my 64 controllers were still in good shape and I was talented enough to unlock the X cup.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679693)

Have a look at this [emedian.net] . From what I heard about it, it's basically the course designing tool the deveolpers used for all the tracks, and is thus very potent. You could dreate all kinds of loops and bends.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (-1, Flamebait)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676576)

Our eyes were not slanty enough to be worthy of a port.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

smaerd (954708) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676702)

First result on Google is a fan based site [emedian.net] .

Apparently people are making ROMs for it?

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676728)

It was released in Japan and flopped horribly. It was a crappy idea to begin with, everyone knows aftermarket peripherals don't sell.

The only game worth playing was Zelda: OoT Master Quest, which was subsequently released in North America on the GameCube (and is the same game as Z:OoT except the dungeons are totally different and harder) on the pre-order bonus disk for Wind Waker.

quote the Wikipedia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15676735)

"The 64DD was announced at 1995's Nintendo Shoshinkai game show event (now called Spaceworld).

However, the 64DD was only released in Japan on December 1, 1999. Nintendo, anticipating that their long planned out disc drive peripheral would become a commercial failure, sold the system through a subscription service called RANDnet rather than selling the system directly to consumers or to retail outlets. As a result, the 64DD was only supported by Nintendo for a short period of time.

With the release of the Nintendo GameCube, many games that had been released or were still in development for the 64DD were released on the GameCube instead."

So there you have it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64DD [wikipedia.org]

Re:quote the Wikipedia (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676800)

With the release of the Nintendo GameCube, many games that had been released or were still in development for the 64DD were released on the GameCube instead.
Such as Eternal Darkness, no? Good thing that game made it to the Cube, because it deserved to be played.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677279)

It was Nintendo's answer to the 32X.

Re:What ever happened to the 64DD? (1)

laxcat (600727) | more than 8 years ago | (#15679218)

All 64DD indicates to anyone now is Scarlett Johansson's bra size.

Gross. I would hope not.

Not such a bad thing it was lost... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15676553)

I mean really, Super Mario 128? Super Mario 64 worked as a title, but I dunno...seems silly :P

Re:Not such a bad thing it was lost... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15679422)

Because the name makes the game?

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15676555)

FP

Re:FP (-1, Redundant)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676604)

more like FAILpost lol amirite?

Re:FP (0, Offtopic)

TouchOfRed (785130) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676928)

www.digg.com

I'm sure everyone already knows this, but... (1, Redundant)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676682)

It was already ported over to Gamecube (sorta). In Super Smash Brothers Melee, one of the challenge states set you up as a huge character versus 128 tiny marios.

It was hard, even if you did a constant Donkey Kong hand-slap

Re:I'm sure everyone already knows this, but... (4, Informative)

badasscat (563442) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678133)

It was already ported over to Gamecube (sorta). In Super Smash Brothers Melee, one of the challenge states set you up as a huge character versus 128 tiny marios.

That's not the same thing.

There was a GameCube tech demo shown at E3 and Space World before the GC's release called "128 Marios". A lot of people over the years have confused this with Super Mario 128. They are two different things. 128 Marios was literally just 128 Marios - it was intended to show the power of the GameCube by rendering 128 Mario characters from the N64's Super Mario 64 simultaneously. That idea is what made it into SSBM.

Super Mario 128 was supposed to be the next actual Mario game after Super Mario 64. The "128" was really just a number, it didn't mean anything, really, and probably would have been changed before the game's release. It was just how Miyamoto and co. referred to the game internally and in the press.

From what I understand, SMB128 was more of a concept and maybe some early programming demos rather than a nearly-finished game, as some have speculated. But it was supposed to be a real game, not just a bunch of Marios running around, which is what 128 Marios is.

Re:I'm sure everyone already knows this, but... (1)

matthobbs05 (987562) | more than 8 years ago | (#15680349)

From what I understand, SMB128 was more of a concept and maybe some early programming demos rather than a nearly-finished game, as some have speculated. But it was supposed to be a real game, not just a bunch of Marios running around, which is what 128 Marios is.
That is exactly what Super Mario 128 is. It was just an experimental platform Miyamoto (and most probably others) used to demonstrate new gameplay concepts. A lot of these concepts have apparently been implemented in Super Mario Galaxy, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the concepts were introduced into Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros, and possibly Luigi's Mansion.

Re:I'm sure everyone already knows this, but... (1)

earthbound kid (859282) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681013)

What 128 Marios turned into is clearly Pikmin.

Just putting this out there... (0, Flamebait)

mikeron (837641) | more than 8 years ago | (#15676791)

"Super Mario Galaxy" sounds incredibly Japanese. Please tell that Mario shoots lasers out of his eyes, or fights Godzilla.

Re:Just putting this out there... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15677430)

Sure....

              s/lasers/fireballs/
              s/eyes/hands/
              s/Godzilla/King Koopa/

Koopa (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677843)

Please tell that Mario shoots lasers out of his eyes, or fights Godzilla.

I'd be willing to bet money that Mario does fight the monster that replaced Godzilla in the Super NES port of SimCity.

Re:Just putting this out there... (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677855)

Please tell that Mario shoots lasers out of his eyes, or fights Godzilla.

This time last week I bought my first new Mario game in many a long year. About eighty seconds later I yelled 'OMG COOL! MARIO-ZILLA!' and smashed up an entire level.

Mario vs Godzilla could work really well. In fact I think I'll go to one of the castles which has a proper giant Bowser, not the baby one, and go Mariozilla at the final fight. MARIO SMAAAASH!

Pikmin?! (2, Interesting)

Krater76 (810350) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677149)

Was it just me or did that video from the article look a lot like Pikmin? The sounds seemed to be the same, and the throwing was similar. It makes sense because he was instrumental in that one too. Pikmin is one of my favorite GC games.

I think Miyamoto would be a cool guy to talk to for even just 5 minutes. He seems to have a lot going on in his mind yet he somehow manages to keep it all coherent enough to get the relevant information to the right people to make great games. That's impressive.

Re:Pikmin?! (2, Informative)

niteice (793961) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678707)

IIRC the tech in that video went into Pikmin.

Tech Demo (0, Redundant)

zephc (225327) | more than 8 years ago | (#15677326)

IDSJ, but I'm pretty sure that was a GameCube tech demo. The word 'GAMECUBE' on the disc's surface was a give away. I remember seeing this video in fact.

Tech Demo (0, Redundant)

ktlewis02 (987315) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678162)

Mario 128 was originally just a tech demo for Project Dolphin (the GameCube) in which there were 128 Marios running around the screen to show off the consoles power and the easy to use controller. I think that game magazines and websites just started rumors that the tech demo was being turned into a game because Nintendo NEVER said the project was under development.

I am pretty sure the "128" was just used to represent the 128-bit era (GCN, PS2, XB)

So here's my question.... (1)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | more than 8 years ago | (#15678482)

What else is Miyamoto experimenting with? And I don't mean that as a joke. I'd love to see an interview where Miyamoto takes someone though all the things he's got in the hopper. I've seen this with writers before -- one of my favorites walked a reporter through about 30 poems he was working on. In some cases the poems had been in development for years. It was fascinating. Creative people can juggle a dizzying number of ideas, for long periods of time.

-Tony

Peach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15680788)

The Princess is pretty stacked, but I hardly think she's a 64DD!

I'd pay a bit for a "beta archive" disc (2, Interesting)

Scoth (879800) | more than 8 years ago | (#15681236)

I'm one of those weirdos who loves betas of games and such. I love seeing the features that never worked out, the levels that were cut, etc. It'd be awesome if Nintendo (or any company really) released a disc full of the various betas, demos, and preleases of major games. I think it'd be cool.

I bought a gameshark just to play with the stuff in Zelda 64. Who'd a thunk there was a fully-functional arwing enemy left in there that cirlces and takes potshots at Link.
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