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Microsoft COO Warns Google Away From Corp Search

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the get-off-my-lawn dept.

315

Forbes is reporting on comments made by Microsoft COO Kevin Turner, concerning the corporate search business. At a company conference in Boston, Turner referred to the enterprise search business as 'our house', and warned Google to stay out. From the article: "Those people are not going to be allowed to take food off our plate, because that is what they are intending to do ... Enterprise search is our business, it's our house and Google is not going to take that business"

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Wow, NEWS! (4, Funny)

mboverload (657893) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729953)

Wow, a company doesn't want another company taking its business.

Jesus Zonk, why did you approve this story?

Re:Wow, NEWS! (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729961)

Actually I think the story is "Microsoft wants to keep monopoly in corporate search and warns other businesses to stay away." Although I do agree that this is a non-story. After all, is anyone surprised that Microsoft wants to keep a monopoly?

Re:Wow, NEWS! (2, Interesting)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730067)

Well, it would be a non-story if they were talking about Office Suites. But since Microsoft is dumping billions of dollars into web services to "kill Google", it's somewhat ironic.

Re:Wow, NEWS! (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729967)

What's newsworthy about this is not the competition between Microsoft and Google, but what Turner's comments reveal about Microsoft's attitude. The arrogance and lack of understanding of the competition that those few sentences encapsulate are breathtaking.

Agree... nice to see enterprises positioned as... (2, Insightful)

leonbrooks (8043) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730001)

..."food", isn't it?

And if a whole enterprise is a piece of "food" for MS, where does that leave an individual?

Re:Agree... nice to see enterprises positioned as. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730070)

...where does that leave an individual?

Calling up Google?

Re:Wow, NEWS! (1, Redundant)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730016)

The arrogance and lack of understanding of the competition that those few sentences encapsulate are breathtaking

What the hell kind of competition do you think happens in the real world? Business isn't a kids soccer game where no one keeps score and everyone gets a trophy at the end of the summer, you know.

What's breathtaking to me is that you think it's somehow out of line.

Re:Wow, NEWS! (4, Interesting)

StarvingSE (875139) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730111)

The comment wasn't out of line, but it provides insight into the microsoft mentality. Instead of stating that they have a superior product, with valid points as to why it is superior, they just tell google to get out of their way. The fact is that microsoft is egotistical and doesn't like competition what-so-ever, and this statement proves it.

Re:Wow, NEWS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730173)

Yes, Microsoft's public tantrum on this matter is somehow out of line. I assume you are either a shareholder or employee to be pretending Microsoft isn't shooting itself in the foot to be making customer-degrading public comments like this.

Re:Wow, NEWS! (5, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730029)

While I agree about Microsoft's arrogance in general, in this case it's just locker room talk:

"We be bad. Yeah!"

Pumpin' up the team. You'll hear its like at every stupid sales meeting at every stupid company in the world. Some of 'em even sing stupid fight songs. It's non news about a non event.

KFG

Re:Wow, NEWS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730012)

It shows one interesting thing. It shows that in addition to being arrogant, Microsoft is oblivious in this case as well. There is basically nothing they can do to stop Google from coming in and owning this market if they so choose.

that's great, but why? (4, Insightful)

tehwebguy (860335) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729956)

everyone at microsoft has lost far too much hair over google..

google products and servers really only even compete with a few microsoft ones, why don't they stop focusing on a competitor that they have essentially imagined and start focusing on making vista worth upgrading to

Re:that's great, but why? (1)

Foobar of Borg (690622) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729988)

everyone at microsoft has lost far too much hair over google

Um, I think The Ballmer was like that long before google. For him, I think Google has elevated his blood pressure to near coronary levels.

Re:that's great, but why? (1)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730049)

That would be too much like working.

Re:that's great, but why? (5, Insightful)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730104)

google products and servers really only even compete with a few microsoft ones,

There are a couple of angles I see this whole "battle" from. One is that monopolies don't last forever, and MS needs to move into new markets so that they can survive after Windows + Office falters. Google is a big competitor in the areas of information services.

The other is that Microsoft has traditionally made lots of money by tying products together so that competitors cannot interoperate on their platform. By "platform", I mean Windows, Windows Server, Exchange, Office, and so on. Google is a threat here, as many of their services simply need a web browser, bypassing the MS platform completely.

Disregarding the two points above, Google probably still scares the hell out of Microsoft. Google is a much more chaotic force than MS, releasing weird new tools that are a by-product of allowing your coders to work on "fun" projects. They are also a much more agile company: MS relies on having Windows pre-installed at retail, as well as long-term licensing contracts. This strategy takes a few years to get the new products entrenched (see the uptake of new MS operating systems over time for a good example). Google can throw a new app up on their site any time they want.

Classic late-stage empire behavior (5, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729957)

Companies, like countries, tend to talk the toughest when they're in trouble. Seeing their domains as God-given rights instead of something they had to work for, making threats they can't back up, getting into fights with much smaller competitors that it seems like they should be able to win easily but somehow can't ... Yep.

If I were a Microsoft stockholder or employee, I'd be very worried right now.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729992)

Very strong point that is you made, pal. And very to the point indeed.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (0, Troll)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730038)

And when MS falls, who do people turn to? Apple who demands we use their proprietry overpriced hardware and DRM their OS to deny anyone using it on anything else? Or Linux which most users are unable to use? Or do we just keep using buggy MS software whose holes aren't even getting a band-aid? Oh yes, I sure can't wait for the fall of MS.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (5, Insightful)

MooseByte (751829) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730085)

"And when MS falls, who do people turn to?"

Any number of innovative solutions that will flourish freely in a far more open market. MS will not simply disappear overnight, as you seem to imply. It's in the midst of a long slide into being just another player, and one with a crappy reputation (well earned) at that. As that curve descends, the solution curve from other vendors continues to rise.

An additional sign of MS's slide beneath the waters is the current crop of college new-grads. All the ones I speak with (recent hires, during interviews, socially etc.) view Microsoft as a plague. Couple that with the observation higher up of "falling empires scream their loudest", plus general consumer sentiment of "MS sucks" (among even my non-techie friends and relatives), and there's not much that can be done. MS has lost mindshare, and they are technically not capable of turning their ship around.

my students (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730170)

You should talk to my students (I'm a university professor type being anonymous for the obvious reasons). They are all (almost) convinced that they only need to learn Microsoft products and that Microsoft will Live Forever as the primary OS and application vendor in the world. Sadly, some of them are convinced that they actually know something about computers since they know how to use a Microsoft GUI. They're seriously mistaken in that.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

terrymr (316118) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730107)

Overpriced hardware ?

I don't know what apple charges for the hardware because you can't buy a mac without OSX,iLife and a bunch of other bundled goodies. Certainly you get a lot more out of the box than you do with a generic windows box.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (2, Informative)

kimvette (919543) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730146)

One can't buy a Mac without OS X? Where have you been for the last 12 months?

Here is how to figure out what their margin is:

  1, Pick a good stylish-but-not-tacky gamer case (Lian-Li, Antec Sonata) and go with that price, (or an Asus or Shuttle enclosure/board if the Mac Mini for the PC equivalent)
  2. Pick a motherboard with same chipset and similar features to the Mac in question's motherboard
  3. Pick a video card with same chipset and similar features to the Mac in question video card
  4. Pick the same or a similar optical drive
  5. Pick a good keyboard and an average mouse
  6. Pick the same HDD
  7. Processor, Etc. (complete list based on configuration)

Add the parts together, based on Newegg's pricing (they're fairly close to wholesale). Subtract from retail price. Add cost of off-the-shelf OS X. You have what is somewhere in the ballpark of their margin, not taking into account volume discounts and padding for warranty service.

When they were on the PPC platform it was a good deal harder to figure out what their margins are, because their motherboards were 100% proprietary, and just adding up the cost for the Foxconn components really didn't give you the price of the boards. Now they're pretty much commodity parts and it's relatively easy to discern. Of course, you don't know if their volume discount is 1%, 3%, 10%, or 20%, but based on sales figures and what discount, say, Tech Data or Ingram Micro will give based on specified # of units, you can arrive at a fairly good guesstimate of what Apple is paying for components, within a couple of percentage points. Also, Apple deals with volumes large enough to buy directly from Intel, and I'm sure Intel gave them HUGE concessions to move away from IBM/Motorola/PPC for the PR, so it is safe to presume Intel is just about giving away the processors, and charging a slim margin over material costs.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730154)

(Oh, and in case you didn't know where I was going with the introductory line above: a Mac is basically a commodity PC now, except with a slightly-customized EFI and a branded case. If you want a Mac without OS X now, you want what is basically a white box PC with a nice case.)

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

Maarek_1 (740578) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730174)

All of those are Apple software products right? Of course the generic Windows box can't do that due to their monopoly status (they may try but they do eventually either get stopped or so harried that they change their stance). This is why Apple is dangerous. I agree that there will not be a sudden colapse of Microsoft and rise of Apple, but I guarantee that if Apple becomes anything like what Microsoft is now then the industry will be in horrible shape (assuming the Steve Jobs way of doing business persists). I hope that the powers that be would break up or prevent such a monopoly from happening again, but with Apple being so waterproof due to the almost religious adherance of its fans coupled with the unwillingness of psudo-independent media (such as slashdot) to criticize a competitor of Microsoft (the enemy of my enemy) makes one wonder if they might be more capable of true monopoly.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

jdbartlett (941012) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730153)

Most users are unable to use Linux? As in Ubuntu?

All the Linux DEs I've seen could use rethinking and refining, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them unusable. Especially not in comparison to Windows. In GNOME, I may have to run through the System menu a couple of times to find the right the right setting (especially if its a networking tool, all of which are named rather ambiguously), but at least I know the setting is in that menu and not stashed away in some "Administrative Tools" or "System Tools" or other submenu!

My brother in law sat down at my Ubuntu desktop the other day. First time he'd used GNOME. He didn't express the least bit of unfamiliarity with the dekstop he was presented with. When an update flashed up, he knew exactly what to do and what was happening. My brother in law is a smart guy, and I'm not saying he or I represent most computer users, but I find it hard to believe that GNOME or KDE would be seen as inaccessible.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (2, Interesting)

MuNansen (833037) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730047)

That's actually true of commercial pop music artists, too. Look at the songs put out at the end of the New Kids, N'Sync, and Britney Spears' careers. Always something about how tough they are and how they'll be around for a long time....meaning one more week.

Re:Classic late-stage empire behavior (1)

modecx (130548) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730098)

Companies, like countries, tend to talk the toughest when they're in trouble. Seeing their domains as God-given rights instead of something they had to work for, making threats they can't back up, getting into fights with much smaller competitors that it seems like they should be able to win easily but somehow can't ...

Yep. It appears that only thing left is for the Germans to take over.

I'll have to turn in my google search appliance (4, Insightful)

rob_squared (821479) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729959)

Too bad, its been around for a while too:

http://www.google.com/enterprise/ [google.com]

Uh... (5, Interesting)

Skreems (598317) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729962)

Google's corporate search appliance has been around for how many years? And since when did Microsoft have a corporate search program anyway?

Re:Uh... (5, Informative)

nxtw (866177) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730000)

I would imagine that any such system would be built upon the Indexing Service [wikipedia.org] , which is a very useful tool. With the right configuration and software, it can implement a service very similar to Google Desktop or something similar to the Enterprise service.

It works for me without any work other than telling it what to search: by turning it on on a Windows 2003 server and telling it to index a drive, a standard Windows search on that drive will use the index... even over the network. And that's all I personally need it for.

Re:Uh... (2, Funny)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730034)

Wow, indexing a drive. How cool. I wonder if anybody else has ever done that before.

Re:Uh... (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730005)

In my experience, "enterprise search" is dominated by, in order of importance:

1) Ultraseek, Harvest and a bunch of other godawful engines that were barely considered adequate in 1995

2) Google

Maybe the Microsoft guy was making a joking reference to Under Armour ads...?

Re:Uh... (1)

Mister Transistor (259842) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730039)

They don't. I got a real laugh from TFA, where this MS goof is ranting "our house", "our house"; then further down, IBM and Oracle are described as the other "competitors" they will be taking on. Sounds to me like they don't have Jack, and are frothing about this arena they "own" but somehow aren't competing in yet. Huh? Hello? Pass the Prozac, please!

Re:Uh... (1)

Manitcor (218753) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730169)

no doubt and has MS lost its mind and forgotten about compainies that have been in the enterprise search business much longer and have enterprise search installations in many more Fortune 500s than MS could ever hope for:

BEA
Verity
IBM
  to name a few.

Google are already there... (-1, Redundant)

pasamio (737659) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729969)

I'm not sure about Microsoft but the Google Enterprise Search [google.com] has been around for a few years now, which would really mean that they're already into corporate searching. Perhaps Microsoft should actually release a product instead of being a blowhard?

You're warning me? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15729972)

Or what?

I shall taunt you?

Don't make me come over there.

Whatcha gonna do when Hulkamania runs wild on you!

Re:You're warning me? (1)

Kuxman (876286) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730140)

I'm the Juggarnaut, ****

Re:You're warning me? (0, Offtopic)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730167)

I shall taunt you?

Do not taunt Happy Fun Soft! Still criminal in all 52 states and the EU!

KFG

google already dominates (5, Insightful)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729975)

Enterprise search is our business, it's our house and Google is not going to take that business

Google dominates over MSN in consumer search. Does this guy honestly think they won't dominate Microsoft in Enterprise search? Why not back up his statement with a good reason why Google won't take MS to the woodshed on this one?

Microsoft have nothing to fear (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15729979)


after all, if they have the better product then why should they be worried about Google ?

Re:Microsoft have nothing to fear (1)

GPSguy (62002) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730030)

Er... you have a typo. It's really supposed to read,
"after all, _if_ they *HAD* a product then why should they be worried about Google?

Anti-trust? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15729980)

Isn't partitioning the market one of the things that defines illegal business tactics?

Hasn't M$ learend?

I'm afraid MS is right... (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729981)

...you can't take what you already have. :)

My goodness! (1)

leonbrooks (8043) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730013)

The effrontery! How dare you actually take MS at their word? (-:

business not personal (4, Insightful)

blinder (153117) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729982)

here's what i don't get. do they (microsoft) teach their executives that the business is personal? i mean, sheesh... never before have a bunch of executives looked more like a bunch of cry-baby drama queens (and i'm no google fanboy).

a note to microsoft executives: no, google is not trying to take food off *your* plate. they are competing with you. if you can't take it, then quit and go away. the cry-baby routine is quite boring and not terribly becoming for an executive of a major international corporation.

Re:business not personal (2, Informative)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730068)

do they (microsoft) teach their executives that the business is personal?

Yes. Ooooooooh, not overtly, but it is the defining aspect of Microsoft's corporate culture, directly tracable to the personality of Bill himself; a man who will get mad at you when you beat him at ping pong, because "you embaressed me in front of my friends."

KFG

I smell fear (4, Insightful)

bnf (16861) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729983)

Hmm,

Seems like the COO of an industry leading company should be more stalwart in his analysis of a market if indeed his company is the market leader. You're so much better off barely acknowledging the competition. You really shouldnt' even mention their name unless completely necessary. If he displays anything other than the facade of market leadership then it would seem to me that he's really not so sure of his market position.

Good luck to him and his company who's shares will probably be dropping in value once again. ;)

As my grandma would say (1)

christurkel (520220) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729984)

Microsoft, cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it!

Re:As my grandma would say (2, Funny)

thatguygriff (856880) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730088)

Then do us a favour and jump off of it....

what cha gonna do, throw a chair? (3, Funny)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729986)

I guess there'll be Microsoft guys with chairs waiting to "totally kill" Google as their servers come into a corp search environment. Or maybe MSN Corporate, Chair Throwing Edition will clobber the server itself virtually by blocking anything from *.google.gom, silently of course. /joke

Re:what cha gonna do, throw a chair? (1)

Jon Abbott (723) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730089)

Yes... Time to open a chair factory in Redmond!

Holy lord! (0, Redundant)

appleprophet (233330) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729987)

Say it ain't so... Microsoft badmouthed Google? What's next, Dell badmouthing Apple? Oh wait [slashdot.org] ...

And in related news... (4, Funny)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729990)

And in related news, Microsoft announced today that CorporateSearch(tm) was being dropped from Vista.

Too-late (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729994)

Company I work for uses google search for everything for our enterprise.

somewhere (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15729996)

deep with the Googleplex (or whatever it is called) deep evil laughs erupt ... but change to a Nelson haha when they remeber their motto (something to do with no evil).

Google's response (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15729997)

With a full mouth, "Oh, that was your plate? It looked like no one touched it in a while."

Oh, pardon me, we didn't realize (5, Funny)

Kohath (38547) | more than 8 years ago | (#15729999)

Enterprise Search is Microsoft's? We didn't realize that. We're sorry. We really wanted to sell Enterprise Search services. But hey, you got dibs on it, so nevermind. Didn't mean to crowd you. Please accept our apologies.

See ya later. And don't be evil.

This may come across as flamebait, but ... (3, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730006)

Does Microsoft even have a shipping product that does this?

I will freely admit that I may just not be informed in this area - but I didn't know Microsoft even did enterprise-level search stuff. I can't recall ever seeing articles in the trade press about it either.

Melodramatic Much? (2, Insightful)

walnutmon (988223) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730011)

"Those people are not going to be allowed to take food off our plate"

Dear god! Hide your dinner plates, or google will take to stealing the food from your childrens figurtive mouths...

This article missed his less publicized quote "Google is trying to rape our women, and eat our children, FREEEEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!"

Re:Melodramatic Much? (1)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730087)

and eat our children

Google formly responds with a request for fries. more at 11.

Re:Melodramatic Much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730114)

I think Microsoft already covered the "eat our children" but with the "take food off (Microsoft's) plate" line.

If you've used MS Search then... (1)

dangermen (248354) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730014)

If you've used MS Search then you know how EASY it would be for Google to come in and get MS out. Microsoft's search engine is a pile.

Re:If you've used MS Search then... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730129)

If you think it's that simple why don't you do it? there's a reason you're still trying to get your A+ after all these years, fucktard.

Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (4, Insightful)

AngryDill (740460) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730015)

Wow. It's shocking to me how many people here are ready to write Microsoft off. People seem to think that the end is near; that Google and others will be some kind of threat to them.

So many people are forgetting the lessons of history.

Once I used to think that MS Word would never overtake WordPerfect; that WordPerfect had too big a lead
Once I used to think that IE would never overtake Netscape; that Netscape had too much mindshare
Once I used to think that WinCE would never overtake Palm; that Palm was the perennial favorite
I've since wisened up, and will never underestimate Microsoft again.

The historical scoreboard of Microsoft versus competitors, for those to young to remember:
  • MS-DOS beat CP/M-80, DR-DOS
  • Windows beat Mac OS, GEM, OS/2, Desqview, etc.
  • Word beat WordPerfect, Wordstar, Wordpro
  • Excel beat 123, Quattro
  • Access beat dBase, Paradox, Approach
  • Outlook beat Eudora, ACT
  • PowerPoint beat Harvard Graphics
  • Encarta beat Compton's
  • Exchange beat Notes
  • Frontpage beat Composer
  • Visual Basic beat Power Basic, Turbo Basic
  • Visual C beat Borland C, Lightspeed C, etc.
  • MS-Publisher beat Ventura
  • Internet Explorer beat Netscape, Opera, Mozilla
  • Visio has no real competition
  • Win-CE beat Palm
  • WMP beat RealPlayer
  • Project leads its market
  • Halo 1,2 is king of the FPS games
  • Visual Studio leads all competitors by far
Looking at the current market share battles:
  • MSN is overtaking AOL
  • .NET is beating Java
  • Money leads Quicken
  • MSN Messenger is beating ICQ, AIM, Y!Messenger
  • X-Boxen are outselling Sony Playstatia
  • IIS is gaining on Apache
  • SQL Server is catching up to Oracle
  • MSN Seach is gaining market share against Google and Yahoo
  • Windows growth is outpacing Unix, Linux

People will often joke about MS "Bob" - myself included. But Bob is one of very few actual Microsoft market failures. Virtually every other MS product either already dominates its field, or is projected to do so.

I'm not a Microsoft shill; far from it. I'm proud to count myself among those with the deepest disdain for the company. Currently, I am an enthusiastic Linux, KDE, OpenOffice.org, and Firefox afficianado. Before that, it was always "anything but Microsoft." As much as I'd like this to be the beginning of the end for MS, I cannot kid myself.

Look at the facts:
  1. Microsoft is still the richest, most popular, and most powerful IT company in the world
  2. It still has the rare advantage of being able to buy out or undersell almost any competitor (hell, it could buy most governments!)
  3. It has proven time and time again that it can violate business laws, effectively with impunity
  4. It makes more money by breaking the rules (and paying the invariably-modest penalty) that it would had it actually followed them
  5. It is still being run by the richest man in the known universe; who will continue on as Chairman
  6. Microsoft has powerful stallwart allies: Dell, Intel, the BSA, the Bush administration's Justice Department, etc.
  7. It remains the favorite of the press (Ziff-Davis, CMP, et. al.) and of many CIOs
  8. Most companies worldwide have picked Microsoft as their primary (in many cases only) software publisher
  9. MS is not above using very nasty FUD to sell its products, which the pointy-haired crowd spouts as gospel
  10. It has millions of customers locked in on its proprietary file formats and protocols
  11. MS has plenty of marketing help. Virtually all computer manufacturers (yes, even IBM) recommend Microsoft operating systems in all their advertising materials (I always look)
  12. Microsoft has weapons it hasn't even started to use against competitors: i.e. a giant patent protfolio, and DRM
  13. It has just shown that it can delay release of a new version of its flagship product by 3+ years and not lose any market share because of it
  14. Revenue and profits are always at record highs, regardless of whether they deliver new products or not

Ask yourself if - in all honesty - anything has really changed to make them less competitive? No, it hasn't. In fact it would be an ideal time to buy MS stock with it being so cheap; provided you don't hate the bastards as much as I do.

Microsoft is nothing to dismiss, ever. Competing with them is like picking a fistfight with a tidal wave.

Microsoft's future is secure; the companies to worry about are:
  • Google
  • Yahoo
  • Apple (esp. the iPod/ITMS division)
  • Sony
  • AOL
  • Oracle
  • Adobe/Macromedia
  • Symantec
  • Sun
  • Red Hat, Novell/SuSE, Mandriva, Linspire, etc.

Microsoft has stated it wants to take each of these companies' business. History has proven that MS will do so.

Microsoft is a juggernaut.

-a.d.-

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (1, Flamebait)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730094)

This is Slashdot. Inside the Slashdot bubble, nothing that Microsoft has ever done has been worth anything, and nothing that they ever do will be worth looking at. Bill Gates is evil. Linux and/or OS X have a huge, ever-growing percentage of the market share and will eventually take over the world. Neither has ever had a security problem that wasn't immediately and completely fixed. Firefox will destroy Internet Explorer. Vista and IE7 will be irrelevant. FreeBSD is dead. And whoever modded your post up will have it rated "Unfair" in metamoderation.

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (4, Funny)

shawb (16347) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730124)

There's a Bill Murray movie [imdb.com] that you're forgetting.

Mods: this post is not offtopic, check the title of the film. That, and Bill Murray is NEVER offtopic. NEVER!

i would have picked this one (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730147)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080487/ [imdb.com]

With Murray as MS and the gopher as FOSS. :)

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (5, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730136)

IIS is gaining on Apache / SQL Server is catching up to Oracle / Windows growth is outpacing Unix, Linux

don't make me fucking laugh.

of all your list the only examples which are even remotely true, is in cases where MS has been able to leverage it's OS monopoly to stiffle competition.
the only other way it's ever able to gain a foothold is to LOSE MONEY on a product eg. xbox. and they can't keep going into market losing money like that, even MS's bank account has it's limits.

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (1)

BunnyClaws (753889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730161)

Once I used to think that MS Word would never overtake WordPerfect; that WordPerfect had too big a lead Once I used to think that IE would never overtake Netscape; that Netscape had too much mindshare Once I used to think that WinCE would never overtake Palm; that Palm was the perennial favorite
You took the words right off of my keyboard. I was just talking about WordPerfect yesterday with a co-worker. Whatever happened to WordPerfect? Lotus 123? It seems like MS just opened up the earth and swallowed them. Now as far as WinCE I remember thinking there was no way Microsoft would be able to compete against the Palm OS. The WinCE OS was a major piece of junk but some how Microsoft managed to overtake the PDA market. Microsoft has the money and power to overtake any competitor out there. Not that they end up building a superior product they just manage to market their products to a point that their competitors are left former shells of themselves. Microsoft just has so much money to outspend their competitors on marketing and strong arming the market in a way their competitors cannot. (Notice I didn't say spends on R&D to develop good quality applications.) They are to the IT industry what Wal-Mart is to retail. "You will not negotiate with me you will just do as I say if you want to do business with me." Microsoft is a massive force that if you find yourself a target of be prepared to get hit hard. Now if Google does somehow manage to knockout Microsoft Bill is just going to go back in time to and blow up Google headquarters before they manage to successfully test traveling their first warp drive flight.

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730165)

You may very well be right. In fact, I even hope you are because I recently started working at Microsoft.

However, there is one thing that is different in this case. It was only recently that Microsoft lost its place as the most desirable software company to work for. Maybe it's still second best, and definitely it's still close to the top, but now, some other company is now the holy grail for the ambitious recent computer science graduate. I applied for Google and wasn't even given a phone interview.

Were any of the failed Microsoft competitors on your list anywhere close to being equal (or greater than) Microsoft on the smart kid's job wishlist? Were any of the other companies capable of stealing away the best and the brightest from Microsoft?

Someone could argue that just having the best/smartest employees won't ensure success, but I don't think there has ever been a time in Microsoft's history where they have had to compete with a company higher than them on the hiring pecking order.

In my opinion, that's the big difference between Microsoft's past competitors and Google.

Microsoft isn't going down any time soon (ever?), but this new challenge may be its hardest yet. Google's got search down really well, and its employees are at least as talented, if not more.

Re:Google doesn't stand a chance!!! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730179)

Dude, you've got some howlers in there...

Windows beat Mac OS -- really? When was Mac OS ported to Windows' hardware platform, or vice versa?

Internet Explorer beat Netscape, Opera, Mozilla -- and IE is losing market share to Firefox, even on its home turf (windows).

Visio has no real competition -- Visio was a complete shrinkwrapped product for years before Microsoft acquired it, for much $$$.

WMP beat RealPlayer -- who pays for WMP? Real at least charges for their non-crapware version.

Project leads its market -- yet its still a piece of shit with leveling bugs.

Of the various apps you cite, how many have succeeded away from Microsoft's home turf, the Windows programming environment?

MSN is overtaking AOL -- who *isn't* overtaking AOL?

SQL Server is catching up to Oracle -- uh, let me know when SQL server runs on the same platforms as Mysql, Postgresql, and Oracle.

IIS is gaining on Apache -- only if you count godaddy parked domains on IIS.

MSN Seach is gaining market share against Google and Yahoo -- Uh, wrong. Google is gaining at the expense of Yahoo and MSN, and Windows Live looks like a pre-alpha product right now.

And this: "Revenue and profits are always at record highs...", then why is the stock at a 5 year low, and going down?

Fan-boy.

meet the new boss.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730017)

I thought this Kevin Turner guy was the new breed of professional manager MS imported to supersede the paranoid Gates/Ballmer "let's cut off Netscape's air supply" era.

Same as the old boss....

Fuck Google. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730019)

Every bitch out there is making excuses for Google while bashing Microsoft. They're practically the same company when it comes right down to it. Sure, MS has been around for a while but don't think Google won't be the 600 pound white elephant in 15 years.

Re:Fuck Google. (3, Funny)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730142)

600 pounds is a really small elephant, and not at all scary.

How will Microsoft hose over Google? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730026)

The same way they hose over all the other competitors that they feel have something they want...Make google work slower with os tweaks and software based internet redirects through MS explorer, they already make firefox and mozilla boot up slower. Just watch IE7 and vista will work slower with google than other friendly search engines.

Dear Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730027)

Blow me.

And in other news.... (2, Funny)

dracken (453199) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730028)

...Google founder Larry Page in a press conference said "Google is getting out of corporate search business, Microsoft COO warned us away. We are now warning Microsoft away from the OS business"

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer upon hearing this threw a chair across his office and said "Damn ! okay, Lets get out of the OS business, Google warned us away. Send a warning out to Intel to get out of the Chip making business"

Paul Otellini, pulling Intel out of its core Processor business said "Intel is looking for other high-tech sectors to enter...After issuing appropriate warning to the current market leaders of course"

What a lame story !

MS needs to deliver a product before talking (5, Interesting)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730031)

I normally try to avoid the Slashdot groupthink ("Apple good! M$ bad! blah blah blah") but this is one instance where ridicule is warranted.

Microsoft has NEVER owned the enterprise search space. They don't have a single corporate appliance to help search large volumes. Their search in Exchange is downright disgraceful. Personally, I won't touch their indexing service (about a month after it came out in Windows 2000, they found security holes with it. Thanks but no thanks).

If they're talking about local search, things are just as bad. Their puppy mascot takes forever to find files, and if a file is removed or deleted from the search window, explorer.exe gets freaked out and sometimes puts up an error message.

It says volumes that 3rd-party companies have an easier time finding files on Microsoft volumes than MS's own tools. I personally use Google desktop. While it can take forever to load, it finds files and emails lightning quick. If you download it, be sure to try searching in email (both using Outlook's search and Google's toolbar) -- you'll be amazed at the difference.

MS has to produce something, anything, that says their serious about search. Windows Vista is their one shot, and it's looking pretty bad. It does something from a UI standpoint I find kind of ludicrous: you open the Start Menu, type a few letters to find a program and, if it can't find it, it looks for files and then searches the web through MSN. Huh? MS put it in the Programs menu -- it should search for programs. For reference, if you use the Spotlight search feature on Mac within System Preferences, it searches just that -- System Preferences. It doesn't look for files or search the web.

Re:MS needs to deliver a product before talking (2, Funny)

cab15625 (710956) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730152)

Actually, for local searches, I've had situations where it was easier to boot into the linux and use "grep" on my windows partition. If that doesn't suggest that something needs fixing, I don't know what does.

PS: no, this isn't a joke.

And the Iraqi information minister says.... (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730050)

"they are not taking the airport, the american dogs are turning tail and retreating! iraqi forces are victorious!"

Don't worry Microsoft... (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730054)

...Well, "keep on worrying about stuff that does not matter anymore..." I should say. I can see one of those boxes featured here http://www.google.com/enterprise/ [google.com] powering online office apps like Writely and the Google Spread sheet from an interna network usually called an intranet. Then at that moment you as Microsoft will see how Google really "eats" your lunch. In the meantime keep on whining.

Tantrum (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730072)

Is Microsoft COO Kevin Turner a baby?

did some legal ears just perk up? (1)

virchull (963203) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730073)

Did Kevin Turner's comment "can't take food off our plate" just make some anti-trust lawyer perk up his ears? I wonder. Seems that competing for customers is OK, but actions directed at competitors just for the sake of competitive share have often been viewed as illegal - gasp. Is this what Kevin has in mind? He may some day regret saying that phrase.

the sad part is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730079)

Microsoft is just about to lay off a sh*tload of engineers, particularly in the Windows division.

Oops, that's inside information. If you read this, you can't buy or sell their stock.

A monologue (2, Funny)

peterfa (941523) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730080)

Ok, this is really bad. "Google, that terrorist organization, threatens the American way of life because they threaten the very fabric of our economy, taking away the food from our sickly childrens' mouths." -- a really poor misquote. Please don't mod me down troll or flamebait. **trembles**

gangsta' (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730086)

Why does MS sound like some gangster in an old movie. Can't you just see Ballmer in a dim, smokey room telling his thugs "uh, Page 'as taken my whos for the last time. He is stealing food from my family, and ain't no one gonna get away with dat. Go ice him now. I want him swimmin with fishes."

At last check, (2, Informative)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730092)

Microsoft wasn't a player in corporate search [searchenginewatch.com] . Autonomy, IBM and (surprise!) Google were the players in that market.

And in other news, I'm warning Ferrari not to take away the Aston Martin that's in my driveway. It's there. Really. Ok, so no one but me can see it, but I'm warning you, Ferrari, BACK OFF!!!

Re:At last check, (1)

meregistered (895132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730125)

:D

And um IBM better not threaten Alienwares strangle hold on the super computer market either!!!

"Enterprise search"? (1)

belmolis (702863) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730103)

Maybe I'm ignorant, but could somebody please define what "enterprise search" is? It seems not to have to do with databases, and I'm hard put to believe it is just "web search done for business purposes". Exactly what sort of market and technology is this about?

LOL (1)

meregistered (895132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730116)

...ummm their house?
Does he mean LDAP using Active Directory?
Light Direct Access Protocol brought to the fore front by Novell??
And they think it provides Enterprise level search capabilities when connected to Active Directory??
If all you want is an employees account and contact information I suppose...

Uh... yeah...

That's got to be one deluded dude ... (1)

fkx (453233) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730123)

It is sad when corporate spokesfolks reveal exactly how disconnected from market reality they and by extension their company vision actually is.

Somebody get him off the stage .. who is going to pay any attention to anything else he has to say?

google to MS... (1)

qzulla (600807) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730128)

DO not pass GO! DO NOT collect $200!

It was better in all CAPS but the lame filter wouldn't post it.

qz

Use the full quote, wouldya? (5, Informative)

Kamineko (851857) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730132)

"Those people are not going to be allowed to take food off our plate, because that is what they are intending to do ... Enterprise search is our business, it's our house and Google is not going to take that business"


The rest of that quote reads:


"... unless, of course, their product is better than ours. In which case, they will attract new customers, together with customers from our existing customer base. Which... I guess you could call taking our business."


Honest, guv!

Echos from the past (3, Insightful)

bsandersen (835481) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730144)

And I'm sure the *NIX and VMS marketplace remembers saying that Microsoft can have the desktop but _WE_ own the server room.

Google to Microsoft. (2, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730157)

Dear Bill and Monkey-boy:

You suck at searching. We're eating your lunch. Take it like a man, or we'll slap WINE on Ubuntu and liberate your victims.

Hugs,

Google.

Sharepoint lockout! (4, Interesting)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730158)

At the big company I work for, Google search powers the intranet seach engine. On the other hand, almost all of the new websites being set up are done in Sharepoint. Due to export laws, just about everything has to be password protected on a per-user basis, to be sure that no unreviewed technical information (=pretty much everything) gets inadvertantly passed on to foreign national employees (everyone with an H1B visa or even US citizen workers who work for subsidiaries based in foreign countries).

So, pretty much, our internal Google search is useless for finding any useful information, because all of the most active stuff is closed away in Sharepoint. So the google search appliance is at a disadvantage until it can support user / group ACLs and stuff.

Google could handily beat MS at enterprise search once they beat them at groupware... which shouldn't be too hard, save for MS's tight sharepoint integration with Exchange/Outlook. Fortunately, Google appears to be advancing on all these fronts, so they have their work cut out for them. But in the mean time, it looks like the MS exec has a point.

SWISH-E (2)

eluusive (642298) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730159)

Sorry Microsoft, you must have missed the memo. SWISH-E stole your business years ago.

well... at my enterprise i... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15730163)

...use google and yahoo to search.

What MS corporate search? (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730171)

If Microsoft has a corporate search product, I've never heard of it until now. Their past attempts at desktop search haven't exactly been spectacular either.

what? (1)

z_gringo (452163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15730181)

I have a hard time believing that someone at Microsoft said that. It really doesn't make any sense.

And do they even have a corporate search product? I know google does, but I've never heard of a corporate search Microsoft product.

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