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Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the lot-of-xboxen dept.

147

Gamespot is carrying the news that Microsoft is aiming to sell 13 to 15 Million consoles by June of next year. The story shows good and bad news for the company; While they've already sold 5 Million units, the Home Entertainment division lost about $1.2 billion for the last year. From the article: "Will Microsoft make its goal in the face of not one, but two rival next-gen console launches this fall? That remains to be determined, but the console will have the advantage of being cheaper than the Sony PlayStation 3 and having a bigger game library than the Nintendo Wii. The upcoming 12 months will also see several exclusive 'system seller' titles be released for the 360, including Epic Games' Gears of War, which is tentatively due this holiday season." Kotaku points out that, to sweeten the pot, a new bundle pack may be in the offing for the system.

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147 comments

Isn't that par for the course? (3, Informative)

iainl (136759) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770417)

I thought that the XBox division lose a billion dollars every year, and always have? I'm sure I remember reading that last year. They've just had to write off a load of R&D money for the 360, we know they aren't making any profit on the physical hardware, and the sales figures for the original XBox have totally nosedived, so it's hardly surprising.

Re:Isn't that par for the course? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770565)

I thought that the XBox division lose a billion dollars every year, and always have? I'm sure I remember reading that last year. They've just had to write off a load of R&D money for the 360, we know they aren't making any profit on the physical hardware, and the sales figures for the original XBox have totally nosedived, so it's hardly surprising.
Uh, so they want to sell more hardware so they'll sell more games so they won't lose money FTW.

Wasn't that the point of the article?

Re:Isn't that par for the course? (2, Funny)

Megane (129182) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771101)

thought that the XBox division lose a billion dollars every year, and always have?

Yeah, but they make it up in volume.

Re:Isn't that par for the course? (3, Interesting)

Swanktastic (109747) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771148)

Look at the source for the bundle article:

A Toys R Us Canada employee

Canadian jokes aside, I'm somewhat skeptical.

No problem (5, Funny)

eln (21727) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770424)

I think they can hit that mark easily. 15 million units produced should be no problem in that timeframe.

Oh, sold? Well, that could be more of a problem.

Re:No problem (0, Troll)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770515)

Oh it's simple really... all they have to do is require that there is an Xbox360 networked to every vista computer if the user wants to use file and print sharing. You may laugh but I wouldnt put it past them.

Re:No problem (4, Informative)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770593)

Shipped = Sold

Microsoft sells Xbox 360's to stores. Thus, they've sold every one they ship. Most companies cite this metric, since it's the most direct relevant measurement they can get their hands on. (As opposed to calling up the store chains, etc.)

Of course, fan-bots will say: "They shipped 5 million, but only sold 1 million!" That is a highly unlikely scenario, however. I mean, if you ran some national department store chain, and you had stacks of a product lying around, why would you order more? The only real danger of overstock is right when a product launches.

So, while there is a number lag between when MS ships a unit and when it arrives in the hands of a consumer, it is not a statistical majority. If MS stops releasing new "X million boxes shipped!" statements, then you'll know they're in trouble. Otherwise, if they later announce "7 million boxes shipped", then it's reasonably safe to assume that at least 5 million have been purchased by end users.

Re:No problem (4, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770660)

Most manufacturers of such expensive items (especially ones with such small profit margins, a few bucks per console go to the retailer IIRC) have to offer buying back unsold stock before larger retailers start stocking it. After all each unsold XBox 360 would eat the profits made from a hundred sold XBox 360s.

Re:No problem (1)

SchwarzeReiter (894411) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770761)

I mean, if you ran some national department store chain, and you had stacks of a product lying around, why would you order more?
What can a little bit change the picture, is that big chains have the habit of only paying for the stock if it was sold. So the supplier only gets his money, when the inventory is gone. Until the point the devices are owned by the supplier, and they get billed when gone.

Re:No problem (3, Insightful)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770850)


Shipped = Sold

Riiiiight.

Ask Microsoft how many units they shipped to Japan. And guess how many units have SOLD in japan. Nice try.

Re:No problem (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771051)

As far a MS is concerned, those *are* sales. The retailer may or may not actually hand the product off to a customer, but Microsoft doesn't benefit from that subsequent retail transaction.

Sorry, fan-boi, but MS is quoting the relevant figure here, much as you'd like to displarage it.

Re:No problem (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771073)

### but Microsoft doesn't benefit from that subsequent retail transaction.

Doesn't Microsoft make money with selling games? Wouldn't it help if the console are actually sold to people interested in buying games instead of being stuffed in some warehouse? And beside, isn't Microsoft selling the consoles at a loss? So every console they 'sell' loses them money, unless they can make it back with games... just a thought.

Re:No problem (1)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771431)


As far a MS is concerned, those *are* sales. The retailer may or may not actually hand the product off to a customer, but Microsoft doesn't benefit from that subsequent retail transaction.

What the hell are you talking about they don't benefit? You MUST be kiddin' me? If MS were to "ship" 5million, but only sell 1million, you don't think it'll have ANY ramifications on MS' gaming business?! Third party developers want to know how many people actually have the console. They can care less how many consoles MS makes, or how many consoles are sitting in a store. They need to sell games, and games are not purchased unless someone owns the console.

Re:No problem (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771518)

Nope. MS does not benefit from the subsequent sale.

You ask "B-b-but, what about third party developers? What about games?" Again, you're looking at the question wrong. The question of how many consoles sell is only tangentially of interest to Microsoft any more. The question that drive third party developers is not "how many consoles will sell to consumers", but "will enough consoles eventually sell to consumers to make it worth developing games," and, as we've already seen, the answer to that is "yes". Between the delays in the PS3 and the number of 360's which have already sold, the console is worth taking a risk on.

Veering OT (4, Interesting)

killmenow (184444) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771168)

I fear you have little experience in retail. Most large retailers (*cough*Wal-Mart*cough*) require the ability to return unsold stock to you and get their money back. Technically, even though the retailer may have bought the units, and have them sitting on shelves in stores, you cannot book it as sales revenue without also booking the RMA liability dollars (though some accountants are well paid for finding ways of doing so anyhow). Anyway, shipped is a long way from sold.

Also, most large retailers have corporate buyers with certain authority what to buy, etc. as well as local buyers with some authority to buy and stock items particular to that given store. It is not at all unheard of, however unfortunate it might seem, that a corporate buyer is buying on a contract, purchase X number of units of some widget, sends a percentage of them to each store, even though some stores have pallets of them sitting in the back wasting space. That's when those "pre-authorized" RMAs start coming in handy.

It is also common to have store FOO returning product while store BAR is buying more even though it is often less expensive to simply stock transfer products from FOO to BAR. A lot of it depends on the corporate structure and culture, the accounting setup, operating procedures, etc., and all that other corporate crap. I've seen managers of various levels refuse to ship stock from their store to another, even though they don't need it, the other store does, and there is nothing technically forbidding them from doing so...due to departmental and budgetary boundary lines (ie., some corporate structures, while looking good on paper, tend to create fiefdoms, enhance corporate politics, and all that jazz). Just remember: retailers aren't all perfectly oiled machines or even that adeptly managed. Just like anything else where people are involved. Nobody's perfect and it shows up more when there's less nobody around, if you catch my drift.

Re:No problem (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771263)

> Shipped = Sold

It is a pretty good indication of just how bad a console is doing in the market if one of its fanboys is furiously making the old "Shipped = Sold" rationalization.

Sorry fanboy, Japan, Europe, and the US all have reliable console hardware sales tracking firms that every console developers has relied on for a very long time.

The 360 is sitting just barely above three million consoles sold - with a little more than a million and a half consoles in the process of being shipped to retailers(US) or sitting on store shelves(Japan and Europe).

Re:No problem (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771777)

Uhh...right...Just because thats the metric MS & Sony use does not make it the correct one. Look at the DS vs PSP sales figures. Nintendo states "sold to consumers" and Sony states "shipped" which means developers have a hell of a time figureing out which one they should develop for. Sony has suposidly higher shipped numbers month to month (usualy) in the US than Nintendo's sold numbers, but yet I see 10DSs for every PSP in someone's hands.

Also lets not forget what I believe other /.ers have pointed out. Stores that MS ships most of these 360s to have the option to make MS buy the 360s back if they do not sell which is very costly on a console your loseing money on allready. Not to mention a country in Japan where shipped and sold are extremely different numbers with the 360.

Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (1)

_Pablo (126574) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770490)

Microsoft PR are just hope the "10 Million people aim to buy at least one 360s By Next Year" appears soon.

Re:Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (0, Troll)

_Pablo (126574) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770505)

"One Me Is Aiming For A Grammar Checker On Slashdot By Next Year"

um ... okay (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770518)

the console will have the advantage of being cheaper than the Sony PlayStation 3 and having a bigger game library than the Nintendo Wii.


1. It's only $100 cheaper than the PS3 out of the box. No one here is buying the "core" system, are they?

2. I have friends who've already added on to their initial $500 purchase. The 360 isn't so cheap.

3. The Nintendo Wii is $250 cheaper out of the box. Again, I'm presuming no one is buying the "core" system.

4. I hope it has a bigger game library than the Nintendo Wii, since Xbox 360 has been out for over 7 months and the Wii hasn't shipped yet. Once unit sales for the Wii outstrip the 360 (my prediction), I believe you'll see plenty of titles for the Wii.

Re:um ... okay (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770577)

1. It's only $100 cheaper than the PS3 out of the box. No one here is buying the "core" system, are they?
If you assume that no one gets the "core" system, then they will be buying the $599 PS3 not the $499 one

Re:um ... okay (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771120)

Except that the "core" PS3 won't be missing a hard drive. Aside from prettier graphics from the HDMI output, both PS3's will play the same games.

Re:um ... okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771324)

Premium 360 = $399
Premium PS3 = $599

599 - 399 = 200

Re:um ... okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771525)

1. It's only $100 cheaper than the PS3 out of the box. No one here is buying the "core" system, are they?

It is remarkably difficult to accurately determine why people are not buying a product, thus you will not find any studies on "why people are not buying the XBox 360". In real life I have had several discussions with XBox owners who have yet to buy an XBox 360 and (in general) they claim that "The XBox 360 is too expensive to buy on a whim; if the XBox 360 had more interesting games, or was cheaper, I would probably buy it." Now, you can't generalize my experience to all of North America (nor can you generalize it across platforms) but if I am correct and the price is a major detractor than the PS3 may be in for a beating.

I know what you're thinking, it's only $500 who can't afford it?

When you consider Taxes, Mortgage/Rent, Car Payments, Insurance, Energy expenses and utilities, Food, Clothing, and Misc expenses (expected and unexpected) very few people end up having much (if any) money left over for a luxury item like a videogame console. If you start considering the average debt load of most people in North America, the likely situation of property values decreasing in the near future(meaning it will be difficult to consolidate your debts), the fact that inflation is outpacing wage increases, and that interest rates may continue to rise it becomes clear that most people are going to have to be far more careful with their money over the next few years; meaning un-necessary items will not be purchased.

All I'm saying is that people are going to be in a situation where they are going to want to save that $100-$200 (depending on price drop) by buying a XBox 360 rather than the PS3, or will buy the dramatically less expensive Wii, or (more likely) will purchase nothing at all. The fact that the XBox 360 is selling so poorly is actually a very bad sign for the PS3.

Smaller library (5, Insightful)

Generic Guy (678542) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770531)

...having a bigger game library than the Nintendo Wii.

Let's be realistic here. The Wii will have Gamecube backwards compatibility, as well as the reported classic system emulations giving it a large library right from the get go. I'm sure the PS3 will also have a decent level of backwards compatibility as well. Backwards compatibility for the Xbox360 has been extremely hit-and-miss -- Dubious at best, certainly over-hyped, which forces Microsoft to rely on building new expensive titles for their new system. I predict their 15 million units prediction is also over-hyped.

Re:Smaller library (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770595)

Regarding the PS3 BC... WRONG! They're having to go the emulation route much like MS, expect the same kinds of problems ;)

Re:Smaller library (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770690)

They are saying they are using hardware for the start until software emu becomes "good enough". Knowing Sony that'd be probably as "good" as MS's current support.

Re:Smaller library (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770730)

The PS3 is going the HARDWARE emulation route. Whereas, Microsoft went the SOFTWARE emulation route. So don't expect the PS3 to have the problems the 360 is having.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/711/711242p1.html [ign.com]

Re:Smaller library (1)

Pulse_Instance (698417) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771742)

If they get it right there will be less problems, but if they get it wrong it is much harder to patch hardware than it is to patch the software (which Microsoft has proven is easy enough for them to do).

Re:Smaller library (2, Informative)

Anonymous Conrad (600139) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770635)

Backwards compatibility for the Xbox360 has been extremely hit-and-miss -- Dubious at best, certainly over-hyped
Based on what? There's lots [xbox.com] compatibile including virtually all the AAA titles. Sure they're missing a few I'd like to play again (Beyond Good and Evil and Soul Calibur) but it's a pretty big list. And it's not like the new system's short of games, esp. if you count Live Arcade.

Re:Smaller library (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770778)

Yes, they have a lot of games that are "backwards compatible" but have you tried to play them? I attempted to play KOTOR2 on my roommates 360 and it works great up until you have to fight something, then it is choppy as hell and very sluggish

Re:Smaller library (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771251)

That sounds pretty much like the KOTOR2 experience on my original Xbox, actually. In addition to the ending (which was cut to an unacceptable degree), the game wasn't very smooth when there was action happening on screen.

Re:Smaller library (4, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771206)

### There's lots compatibile including virtually all the AAA titles.

Isn't that part of the problem? Its nice to have support for AAA titels, but most people already have played them over and over again and there is a good chance that those AAA titles will get a successor sooner or later anyway, so at least for me I don't really consider AAA titles that important, at least not really more important then the rest and looking at that list Yager, Shenmue, Panzer Dragon, Psychonauts, BrokenSword, Fahrenheit, Advent Rising, Riddik, X-Men Legends 1 and 2, TimeSplitters2 and 3 all not listed, all quite good games, all games I own. So while the backward compability might be better then nothing, it is *FAR* away from being an XBox1 replacemet, since the fraction of games that work is still quite small compared to those games that are on the market.

What makes things even worse is that Microsoft doesn't have offer any way to bundle XBox360 binaries with newly released XBox1 games, meaning even when a new XBox1 game is released there is nothing the developers can do to get XBox360 compability out of the box, it all depends on Microsoft to provide a patch or maybe not depending on the gamers luck. The transition from XBox to XBox360 is really far from optimal and I have some doubts that it will ever get much better before the XBox1 finally fades away completly.

Re:Smaller library (1)

jrieth50 (846378) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771631)

AAA titles such as Microsoft's own RalliSport2? Didn't think so. Also - Halo 2 - still MS's flagship game runs very poorly at times on Live. Though it has undergone a couple of upgrades since I got my 360 a few months ago, it gets slowdown and sound issues particularly on maps that are "alien" and/or have lots of plasma pistols. Team duals - plasma is nearly unplayable due to slowdown. Also it tends to 'skip' animations such as throwing grenades depending on its current load and has sound issues. Can't wait for Halo3 so I can be done w/ old xbox titles, right now RockStar Table Tennis is one of the most addictive games I've played in a while. Oh - And because of a buyout with the creator of RalliSport there will NEVER be a 360 version... That's sad.

15 Milion Units... (0, Flamebait)

SpaghettiPattern (609814) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770535)

15 Milion Units ... Nicely stacked in warehouses just right besides the fairy tales.

Re:15 Milion Units... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770749)

Really jackass? Because I thought they'd already sold the first 5 million, in just over 6 months ;)

Re:15 Milion Units... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771210)

A little defensive there fanboy? Maybe if you stopped spanking off to Master Chief, you'd notice that this system is looking like a huge failure.

Re:15 Milion Units... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771712)

"Maybe if you stopped spanking off to Master Chief,"

Buh, buh, he's so...SHINY!!!

fap,fap,fap...

Halo 3 - Welcome to late 1990s shiny metal effect.

In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770542)

A press conference to be held sometime in the near future reveals Microsoft's new ad campaign for the XBox360 is based solely on a price comparison to the PS3 in hopes that bang-for-the-buck consumers will be swayed by "premium console" with the harddrive, wireless controller and HD capabilities AND a game or two (perhaps featuring EA's all time favorite Car or Football Guy!) for $600, vs a PS3 with some kind of motion sensitive dual shock without the shock. Admittedly, Microsoft states the ad campaign makes them look 'kinda like an ass' but, they retort, "asking $600 for just the console would make us an ass too'.

just poking fun. Buy whatever you want. Your hard earned money, not mine.

Step 1... (4, Funny)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770544)

1. Make less suck.

Taking 300W, putting out enough heat to warm a house during a Siberian winter and catching on fire is not the first way to win over customers. :-)

Tom

Re:Step 1... (1)

desenz (687520) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770785)

It may not be the traditional way, but at least they're trying to innovate.

Re:Step 1... (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770845)

Any jackass can consume 300W and deliver 3000MIPS. A smart engineer would do the same in 30W. That'd be innovation.

Your comment [while I can smell sarcasm I'll answer anyways] is like saying "If we just make bigger gas tanks our SUVs can drive further, what wonderful innovation!"

Tom

Re:Step 1... (1)

Don853 (978535) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771162)

I took his sarcasm as more along the lines of "All in one DVD player, Game system, and Space heater! Now that's an innovation!", but I could be wrong.

I bet they can... (2, Insightful)

Siberwulf (921893) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770561)

I bet they can do it. Why? Simple. People that have a PS2, GC, or regular XBox right now want to see the entire playing field before they move to the next level. It has been impossible to tell what system will be the best, until all systems are available.

(Might be harder knowing that most people will have already ruled out the PS3 due to the rediculous price tag)

Re:I bet they can... (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770693)

You do relize that the PS2 is still outselling the xbox360 2 to 1. that's right the PS2 is selling more units than's MSFTs new toy.

If memory serves MSFt shipped 200,000 units for 450,000 PS2's. but that's just from bad memory.

Re:I bet they can... (1)

Siberwulf (921893) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771049)

How many people buy the latest and greatest as soon as it comes out? When it comes to computers, personally I go by the 85% rule. I take the fastest speed out there, and then look at an item that performs up to 85% as good as the max. That way, I get something new, and I don't break my wallet out there. I'd guess that the heightened sales of the PS2 are directly related to the price drop associated with the release of "Bigger and Better" consoles.

Re:I bet they can... (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771088)

If memory serves MSF[T] shipped 200,000 units for 450,000 PS2's. but that's just from bad memory.
Actually, in calendar 2006, the 360 has been running roughly neck-in-neck, and even caught the PS2 once, in April. Not that is matters -- the parent's core point, that the 360 isn't beating a last-gen console, stands.

Re:I bet they can... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771674)

You do realize that sales of the PS1 were greater than PS2 sales
for the first couple of quarters?

The overwhelming might of 360! "zonked" tag time (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770573)

Well, with numbers like that victory is assured to the brave and noble 360 over the vile and shifty PS3! Onward to Victory!!

Time to use that "zonked" tag again.

Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770580)

The 360 has sold only 3 million and change after 7 months. And that is against nothing but a six and five year old console. One of which has almost no new games coming out for it. We all know the 360 is dead in Japan, but the bad news few people have picked up on yet is the 360 appears to have essentially died in Europe. From the latest Microsoft numbers, they only shipped 200k new consoles last quarter to Europe. That means that the 360 is basically living off of the US market.

15 million? The 360 will have a hard time making it 5 million sold by the end of the year.

One just has to read Microsoft employee frequented sites to see just how wildly unpopular the 360 is up in Redmond. I would be surprised if the 360 survives to this time next year with such outright and open hostility towards the project.

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0, Offtopic)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770608)

I guess buying in early sucks :-)

At least with the DS the games might suck but the homebrew scene is strong.

Tom

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (1, Offtopic)

KeiichiMorisato (945464) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770879)

DS games suck?

I beg to differ. Look at the latest numbers for the top 10 console games sold in Japan

http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten.htm [the-magicbox.com]

The top 3 spots are DS games and 7/10 spots are DS games.

And on the US charts for July 2-8

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153855.html [gamespot.com]

DS games are right up there, but only pushed down a bit due to the World Cup frenzy that pushed all the soccer games up the charts.

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0, Offtopic)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770912)

Ok I take that back. Most DS games sucks. I own about 10-12 games or so but most of them I only play on planes or when I'm otherwise forcefully confined. Given the choice I'd rather play NES or GB games instead.

The problem with the vast majority of DS games is they're ports of side scrollers. Frankly, keep that shit on the GBA where it belongs (not that I hate side scrollers, I just think it's a waste of a DS). Then you have the crappy driving sims... boo.

I like Mario64DSXPPROEDITION and I like a few others [mario kart is ok]. All the driving sims so far are crappy though and there are no classics.

Damn it, I want virtua fighter already [why that wasn't ported to the GBA I don't know, solid flat shaded polygons are drawable at 16MHz]....

tom

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0, Offtopic)

masklinn (823351) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770961)

duh? DS games? Suck? Are we both talking about Nintendo's Dual Screen?

They may have pretty... unusual games... but most of the ones I own & play I would actually rank "good" to say the least, and I have nearly a dozen of games, and not enough money to buy the many other good ones (that've been released in yurop, then it'll be time to hit the import stores)

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770984)

Yeah I was being critical. Because most games before this summer did suck. The racing sims are all crappy and side scrollers are old.

Mario64, MarioBros and Advancewars are among my favs but only because they're classics. Mario Kart is fun but really requires other players, Metriod is just plain boring.

I look forward to the Zelda game [again classic] but what I really want to see are remakes of ACTUAL 3D GAMES.

Christ, test drive 3 in all it's flat shaded VGA glory was more exciting than the latest PS2 downvert. And now that the DS has a GL like port for 3D graphics, a test drive 3 clone would be trivial and fun.

Tom

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770887)

"Personally? I weep a little with each Xbox 360 sold."

Right on the main page of minimicrosoft.

If something is getting talked about on mini you can be assured something is going to happen up at Microsoft. Not only is the 360 getting slammed by Microsoft employees, but virtually every financial story about Microsoft talks about the Xbox mess dragging down profits right at the top of every article. It is bizarre to listen to the diehard Xbox supporters brag about how the billions the Xbox project is burning through mean nothing to Microsoft. I can only imagine that Microsoft doesn't see a way to cancel the 360 without suffering a major PR hit.

There is a wave of new management and new ideas sweeping through Microsoft right now. Kill Xbox 360 project has to be one of the top items on their todo lists as they takeover control of the company.

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770971)

Hmmm.. by 3 million sold I assume you mean 5 million... since that's the number. Also... and I know it's a lot to ask... but had you bothered to read the article you would have seen those numbers are from June, so it's 5 million in 6 months, but thanks for playing!

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (1)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770942)

Where are you getting the 3 million sold from? ArsTechnica reported 5 million sold [arstechnica.com] . That puts them on track for 7 to 9 million by the time of the PS3 launch. It would be nice to see a breakdown per territory, but I have not seen one. Do you have a link?

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (1)

Keeper (56691) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770973)

3.3m sold in the US
1.3m sold in the EU
400k sold elsewhere

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/07/20/ 536283.aspx [gamerscoreblog.com]

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771061)

Oh give it a fucking rest!

Every generation it's the same old. Fanboys trying to pass ship numbers off as sold. Straight from NPD the 360 has only sold 2 million as of this month in the US. And the 360 hasn't broken a million in Europe.

The 360 has sold right around 3.1 million worldwide after seven months.

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771856)

That's dumb, becaus the NPD numbers are not gospel. NPD doesn't track wholesalers like Walmart and Costco, which account for a large number of sales. Where are you getting your European numbers from?

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771888)

Bzzzttt!

Save that bullshit for your fellow teamxbox.com posters.

Re:Only 3 Million Sold After 7 Months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771143)

It's deja vu all over again for the Xbox.

Five years ago when the Xbox had only sold around 7-8 million Xbox fans were running around screaming about how sales had reached 12 million. Of course those beliefs in the bogus sales numbers were eventually crushed when Microsoft's own ship numbers were far less than the claimed sales numbers from Xbox fans.

Fast forward five years and it has got to be the same people trying to pull the same bull all over again.

Sorry guys, the 360 has shipped about 5 million consoles. The 360 has sold just over 3 million to consumers.

Fantasy sales numbers didn't help the first Xbox.
Fantasy sales numbers won't help the 360.

Tie in to handheld video game unit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770603)

I was at a job interview with M$ a month ago, and when I implied I knew about the rumours of the handheld game unit they are developing, I got a response of a tight-lipped face looking at me saying "That's all I'm going to say about it". When you saw the interviewer's face, you knew that they knew there was more to the story... I was absolutely convinced that there is a handheld unit in development. We'll see how it ties into the 15 million XBox 360s M$ plans to sell.

they seem to be right on target (4, Funny)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770606)


Home Entertainment division lost about $1.2 billion for the last year.

They're on track to lose $4+ billion for this generation console. That's their goal right?! Just like the last one?! ;)

Re:they seem to be right on target (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770776)

The Xbox/360 losses are staggering.

And yet they don't even tell the full story of how much cash Microsoft is actually wasting on the effort since the 360 is mixed in with a variety of other profitable products/projects.

The Microsoft of 2006 is not the Microsoft of 2000. Six years of declining stock value and the company going through cuts and downsizing, few people who work at Microsoft appear to be in the mood for keeping the 360 mess going any longer. Microsoft is approaching 5-6 billion wasted on the whole Xbox fiasco and after five years in the market the 360 is actually doing much worse than the first Xbox.

Microsoft can't even rationalize away the insane losses with the old 'buying marketshare' talk.

I can't imagine what it must be like up there at Microsoft in the 360 meetings - endure the public humiliation of pulling the plug on the Xbox mess or continue to enrage shareholders on a ever growing ocean of red ink. Those are the type of meetings that it is best just to hide under your desk...

Aim (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770612)

Microsoft is aiming to sell

Oh, I thought they were aiming to shoot them, so that they wouldn't lose so much money on each console sold.

The question to me is: Will they be playing catchup the moment a BluRay PS3 is available? How much are high-def, high capacity drives worth?

Let's talk sales ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15770618)

"Nintendo announced today that sales of its hand-held, dual-screened video game player, the Nintendo DS, have topped 20 million worldwide (guesstimates say 21,270,000). Nintendo expects DS (Lite) sales to be 17 million between April 2006 and March 2007.

It will be possible (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770666)

Sony has managed to do two things: create an extremely expensive and lackluster product that is overhyped and piss off a lot of people to the point that they root for Microsoft. Yes, root for Microsoft! When was the last time that a company so badly screwed its customers that somebody wished that Microsoft would take them down hard?

Re:It will be possible (1)

dingDaShan (818817) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771027)

Sony has pissed me off ever since the onset of memory stick. As an avid photographer, I knew I should avoid Sony at all costs, but I have several friends that haplessly bought a Sony camera only to find out that the memory sticks cost twice as much as any other flash memory. Sony is continuing on that path with the PS3. I can't wait to get an X-box 360. Yes, it uses lots of power and has had some problems, but it is far superior to any Sony offerings. The PSP is another example of a Sony failure. At first glance it kicks ass, but the battery lasts about as long as my 6 year old Inspiron's battery when it's left unplugged. The battery lasts about 2 hours when using a game that has decent graphics, and that is when it is brand new. The battery only gets worse from there. Oh, and how about such wonderful things as Blu-ray costing 4 times as much as HD-dvd? I just don't see why anyone buys anything from Sony. I hated the PS when it first came out... PC games had much better graphics... I hated PSII when it came out.. PC games had much better graphics... and I have found the X-Box and 360 to be much more similar to the PC gaming experience... which nearly anyone who has played games on the X-Box versus the PSII will confirm. Has anyone tried out the Sony Connect music store? I have and wished I hadn't... it was a waste of an hour of my time trying to figure anything out. Oh and if you do use it, you get to use Sony's "feature-packed" music app (an awful abberation of a computer program) and a proprietary Sony music player. What could be better?

Re:It will be possible (1)

IflyRC (956454) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771177)

Don't forget the Sony Rootkit! "Hi, we're Sony. You want to listen to our music? Here, let us sneak in while you're not looking and install some software that will compromise your systems's security because we're really worried you will end up pirating our music. Thanks and have a nice day"

Re:It will be possible (1)

LainTouko (926420) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771171)

Why bother rooting for Microsoft when it seems pretty clear by now that Nintendo is going to be trouncing both of them?

(Disclaimer: PC gamer, for reasons of Civilization rather than graphics-card-ness.)

No worthy software (3, Insightful)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770692)

So exactly how they plan on selling them, with no worthy software?

Or in other words, why should I - already having a top-end gaming PC - buy one? Which games does it offer that I can't play otherwise, and that are worth the ridiculously high prices (70e+ in some parts of europe)

Gears of War has some potential, but so far its a shiny graphics demo. Nothing launched exclusively so far has had any real meat to it. X360 is missing it's 'Halo' to sell it, unlike the original Xbox at launch, and most announced shiny thingys at E3 are multiplatform, with versions also for PC and/or PS3. As long as PS3 has some major exclusives (Metal Gear series and Gran Turismo series alone will sell fuckton of overpriced PS3s), and Xbox 360 has only shinyed-up ports and crap, it won't sell.

Consoles live and die by their _exclusive_ triple-A titles. Microsoft seems to have forgotten this one...

Re:No worthy software (1)

slusich (684826) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770899)

Halo 3 will likely be released on the same day as the PS3. There are plenty of good solid 360 games out right now, including Oblivion, Kameo, PGR3 and Prey.
They may not be exclusives, but then not everyone enjoys PC gaming.
I stopped playing games on the pc years ago because:
1. I got sick of having to buy video cards that cost twice what I paid to build the rest of the box.
2. I was tired of dealing with driver issues with new game releases.
3. I now prefer to play games on my 52" TV as opposed to my 19" PC screen. And yes, I know I can hook a PC up to my TV as well, but a keyboard and mouse simply don't work well on a sofa.

As for the PS3, it's major downsides for me are size and price, both of which are oddly close to a compact car.

PC gaming is great for some, but most folks just don't want those kinds of headaces.

Re:No worthy software (1)

bman08 (239376) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771023)

Yup. When I played the F.E.A.R. demo on my PC and realized that the fx5700 was getting a little long in the tooth, I decided to go for the 360 instead of a new video card/mobo/CPU. Also, the challenge of using the awkward controller has made shooters... I wanna say fun but different is a better way to put it.

Re:No worthy software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771066)

Don't worry dude, once you're used to it you'll wonder why you ever used a typing device and a gui navigation device to play games when you could have been using a dedicated gaming controller all along. I know I did :)

Re:No worthy software (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771635)

Yes, I'm sure that's why USB game pads are so popular among high-end, competitive PC gamers.

They're dedicated gaming input devices, so they must allow for better, easier, and faster, and more flexible play than those silly typing and gui navigation devices. Right?

*dripping with sarcasm*

Odd (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771085)

As for the PS3, it's major downsides for me are size and price, both of which are oddly close to a compact car.

Oddly I find the 360 better fitting that description, emitting heat like a radiator and only costing $100 less than the PS3 with somewhat better specs. None of the titles you mention are that a great a draw to me to buy a console for (and I have played all of them except for Prey).

I generally agree with your points on PC gaming, except that I still prefer FPS games on a PC over a console... and RTS games are a lot more deep on the PC. Other than that though I have totally switched to consoles as my primary gaming platform.

Re:Odd (1)

slusich (684826) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771303)

If you enjoy FPS games, go download the demo for Prey. It is available for the PC. It's a refreshing change from all the Quake/Doom/HL2 clones I've played.

I haven't had any real heat problems with the 360, but then mine's in an open shelf with plenty of open air all around it. My Panny HT equipment gets hotter then it does.
I wasn't going to buy the 360 as soon as I did, but Oblivion was the driving factor for me. I certainly don't claim it's for everybody, but I've gotten my money's woth out of it.

Re:Odd (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771337)

Oblivion is pretty good (I've played with a little at a friends house) but not compelling enough to buy a console for it, especially since you can get Oblivion for the PC as well.

Prey does look pretty interesting, I've been waiting for that one for a while. I'll probably get it eventually, but again a PC version as I really prefer the controls there.

Re:No worthy software (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771438)

Halo 3 will likely be released on the same day as the PS3.

I don't think that's correct. Last I heard, the PS3 will ship this November, but Halo 3 isn't slated until 2007.

Re:No worthy software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771039)

"Or in other words, why should I - already having a top-end gaming PC - buy one?"

You shouldn't. You're clearly not a console gamer, which also means you're not part of the target market. This theory is further bolstered by the fact that the only console exclusive you can think of is Gears of War. What about Too Human, Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Mass Effect, Forza 2? I could go on and on, this xmas is going to be a very happy time to be a 360 owner. But then, I'm guessing it would be a sad time for you, since it means a ton of beautiful, interesting games for the 360 that you just _CAN'T_ play no matter how high-end your pc is :)

Have fun! You can enjoy Crysis; I'll have too many choices to know what to play (I guess that's the real advantage of PC gaming isn't it? So few releases you don't have to worry about choosing what to play)

Not true (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771104)

You shouldn't. You're clearly not a console gamer, which also means you're not part of the target market.

Plenty of people who own gaming PC's also own consoles.

The complaint is that if you have a PC, there is nothing on the 360 that is different enough or that you cannot get on the PC already.

Lots of people with PC's bought PS2's and XBoxes, because they had games that you could not get for the PC nor would you want to really play on the PC. Where are THOSE games?

Re:No worthy software (1)

RexRhino (769423) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771479)

Or in other words, why should I - already having a top-end gaming PC - buy one? Which games does it offer that I can't play otherwise, and that are worth the ridiculously high prices (70e+ in some parts of europe)

If you have a top-end gaming PC, you SHOULD NOT buy the Xbox 360.

However, here are some issues that make a console attractive:

1. Your high end gaming PC is most likely a Windows machine. If you switch to a console for your gaming, you can switch to Linux or a mac for your PC use. Most of the power-users I know who haven't switched to mac/Linux from Windows are people whos work requires windows (Windows developers for example), or people who are gamers.

2. By doing my gaming on a console, my laptop is a tax write off. (and a laptop would be out of the question as a gaming machine anyway)

3. If you do actual professional work on your PC, it can be compromised by the "copy protection" on certain gaming software.

4. Your PC can be optimized for whatever non-gaming you do on your computer.

5. For people who work professionally on computers, a console offers a clear mental seperation between work/play. If I am at my computer, I feel compelled to do work, check email, read the news, etc.

So, if you already forked out the money for your high-end PC, it is an absolute waste to buy a gaming console (unless you are rich). But as your gaming PC ages, you might want to consider getting a mac or installing linux on your gaming machine and play on a console.

As for Triple A titles for the Xbox 360, check out Dead Rising and Test Drive Unlimited. Both are coming out very soon as stick out in my mind as interesting high budget games. I doubt they will be exclusive to the 360 (I am not sure), but your arguement seems to be PC vs Console more than about the 360.

I got around the issues with the 360... (1)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 6 years ago | (#15770900)

Instead of spending 600$ on a new console and maybe two games, I dropped half that on a new video card and an Xbox360 controller for my PC. Now I can play the same exact (decent) games, with the same exact controls, on a machine that doesn't overheat. Best decision ever.

The wired 360 controller is just another USB HID device; as soon as I plugged it in, XP was like 'Hey! You've got a controller. Let me check windowsupdate for the driver! Hey! Even better! It's an Xbox360 controller! Here's the driver. Dot dot dot. Enjoy!' And off I went.

Re:I got around the issues with the 360... (1)

tirefire (724526) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771880)

Good Lord - you're using a controller with a PC? I always considered having a keyboard and mouse to be one of the PC's greatest assets, and now you're throwing that all away.

Please tell me the controller is only for flight sims or racing games or something.

360 Three Region Sales (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771030)

15 million by next simply isn't happening for Microsoft and the 360. It just isn't possible.

If one looks at the breakdown of 360 sales for the first seven months:

Japan: 140k units - Microsoft is effectively dead in this market. Obviously.
Europe: Sales are in the 700-800k range with sales having slowed to a trickle over the past couple of months.
US: Sales are behind the first Xbox by about 200 to 300k at the same point in the Xbox's life.

So the 360 is pretty much selling in just one territory and tracking the first Xbox sales at a reduced percentage with no other next gen console on the market to compete with. Perhaps a 100 dollar price drop and getting rid of the ridiculous 50 dollar a year online charge will help get the 360 up to Xbox level sales in the US, but with the console dead in one territory and dying in another, there simply is no way that the 360 is going to sell 11 to 12 million consoles in the US by next year or that 360 sales in Japan and Europe will magically pickup.

Microsoft and the 360 are looking at a best case scenario of probably 5 to 6 million worldwide by this time next year. With some 3 to 3.5 million sold so far, adding only 200-250k every month in the US is not going make a viable platform for developers when the Wii and PS3 arrive on the scene in a few months.

Mod Chip makers, please slow down!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#15771045)

I want a half decent sized library in 12 months before I plop down the cash for a new 360, a mod chip, and new 500gb hd.

Anyone else hear that suprised yelp? (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771064)

That is MS being fucked up the ass by the DS. It got to hurt that an older handheld has not only already outsold your optomistic sales predictions but that even their sales preditictions for the same term are higher. No, I am not a nintendo fanboy. I just like handhelds because they allow me to game where I can't play real games because PC's are so difficult to fit in your pocket. For all the excitement about Wii if you read the previews at a site like eurogamer you might find very few games to get that excited about. Same for the PS3 and the 360 btw. Only 360 game I would like to play is oblivion and that is a superior on the PC.

But still, the fact remains that this handheld that is just a stopgap between the GBA and whatever will come next is outselling everyone else. While only a handfull of games appeal to me it might be true that Nintendo has tapped that mythic casual gamer pool. Yes it is a sad day for us fans of Planescape torment, Scumm and System Shock fans when Nintendogz sells 6 million units but the sign was on the wall ever since The Sims became a record breaker.

It can't be a coincedence that the Gameboy line is the only computer to come in pink. I blame women for the death of the old Sierra and Lucasarts and the demise of Looking Glass.

Do NOT let them WIN! Buy your 360 and it endless horde of mindless FPSes today and make a stand against the pink DS owners. No to social gaming and up with testosterone. It is fragged or be hugged. Buy a copy of DOA beachball today and let the other half of the world know what gaming is all about.

Not that they don't know. Anyone ever notice how all the erotic mods for Morrowind/Oblivion and Never Winter Nights are often made by women? Who would have thought it, the weaker sex is even more obsessed with it then we are. Makes sense, we got to stop to scratch, they can keep thinking of it 24/7

I'm going with no.... Here's why. (1)

Rendo (918276) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771181)

Let's look at their history here.

1. Vista was SUPPOSED to hit the market in the middle of 2004.... Where is it? First X

2. Office is in the same boat as Vista... How long has it been now? Second X

3. They only have 5 million units so far, and they expect to double that amount in the next 11 months, even though they've finally achieved their production they desire and sales HAVEN'T gone up? Third X

Let's just face it here people, Microsoft is all talks in regards to a lot of things. Delays, Bugs, entire code being completely done... Lack of GOOD games, very few platformers... Microsoft is just all hype and they use their money to advertise and say things, but money doesn't get results.. And now they have the "iPOD" killer? That'll probably be a big flop too....

Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 6 years ago | (#15771182)

Microsoft Aims For 15 Million 360s By Next Year

Well, good luck with that.

Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 sure looks nice, though.... :p
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