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Intel Launching 'Merom' Notebook Processor

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago

201

Hans Pecheston writes "Merom, Intel's notebook processor, will be joining in the festivities at their upcoming launch event. This chip will continue to use the Core 2 Duo brand and should display additional improvements in performance and power consumption over the current chips. Intel has already begun to ship Merom processors to its PC customers and systems with Merom should begin to appear around the end of August."

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And in the first week of August... (2, Funny)

Jerk City Troll (661616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775123)

They will be announced in a new line-up of MacBook Pros.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1)

arachnoprobe (945081) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775129)

I think Apple will provide a new PowerMac line first.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775148)

Probaly all together. The Xeon and the Core 2 Duos (Conroe and Merom) are all being unveiled at the same time. Speculation is rife that the new MacPros will have the new Xeon (which is really a Core architechture processor too). Apple will make a big hooplah about the Mac Pro at WWDC, but I expect the upgrade to Core 2 to the existing line will just happen in due course without much fanfare.

The Macbook and Mini will keep Yonahs, Macbook Pro will get Meroms, the iMac will have a Conroe and the MacPro will have a Xeon. That's my guess, for what its worth.

Re:And in the first week of August... (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775238)

It seems unlikely that the Macbook and Mini will keep Cores while the Pros get Core 2s, since Intel is going to be phasing out the Core in favour of the Core 2 relatively quickly.

Re:And in the first week of August... (2, Interesting)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775249)

Really? Do you have a reference? I heard that the Yonahs were here to stay as the 'low end' or 'consumer' option.

Re:And in the first week of August... (2, Funny)

thermopile (571680) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775137)

This will open up at least two new ways to win in John Siracusa's bingo [arstechnica.com] ...

Re:And in the first week of August... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775155)

"They will be announced in a new line-up of MacBook Pros."

Oh joy!

More overpriced Intel Mac lemons!

More bogus Intel marketing compiler SPEC scores for Jobs to lie about! Can he outdo the lies he got caught telling last year?

Stay tuned...

Re:And in the first week of August... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775190)

More bogus Intel marketing compiler SPEC scores for Jobs to lie about!

Jobs does not lie, he is just differently abled regarding truth.

Re:And in the first week of August... (4, Insightful)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775231)

I don't get it, do you not like Macs, or do you not like the Core Duo (and Core 2 Duo) processors? Also, how overpriced do you really feel the Intel Macs are? At least from what I've seen, the pricing difference between the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775383)

At least from what I've seen, the pricing difference between the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off.

Is that why the only clothes you Mac guys can afford is black turtle necks and jeans?

Re:And in the first week of August... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775452)

"the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off."

It is hilarious how all through the late 1990s and early 2000s x86 people would rush off to the Apple Store and config 5000 dollar Macs to prove how 'expensive' they were compared to x86 PCs.

And now those very same people who are buying x86 Intel Macs are doing the very same but in reverse by heading over to the Dell store and configing the most expensive model they can find to prove x86 Macs aren't really that overpriced.

If you are paying more than 50 percent the price of an x86 Mac for a HP or Dell - you are getting reamed.

Re:And in the first week of August... (3, Informative)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775471)

At least from what I've seen, the pricing difference between the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off.

That's not true at all. Here goes:

MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
1024MB 667 DDR2 - 2 SO-DIMM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
2.0GHz Intel Core Duo
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
80GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm
Price: $2099.99

AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro/PowerBook (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll
Price: $349.99

Total: $2497.95

Inspiron E1505
Intel® Core(TM) Duo Proc T2500 (2GHz/667MHz/2 X 1MB L2 Cache)
Genuine Windows® XP Home
15.4 inch UltraSharp(TM) Wide Screen SXGA+ Display with TrueLife(TM)
FREE 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce(TM)Go 7300 TurboCache
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Integrated Audio
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 Internal Wireless and Bluetooth
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
3Yr Ltd Warr,At-Home Service,and HW Warr Support plus Nights and Weekends
Free SKIN Promotion 15 - Free Promotion for 15 inch Skin

Price: $1,766.00 (before 30% off coupon, which is practically always available.)
Price after coupon: $1,236.20

There are a few things the Macbook Pro has that the Dell does not. For one, the Macbook is lighter, thinner, and more aesthetically pleasing, which is no small thing. It also has a much more robust software suite--OSX is clearly a more complete OS than XP, and the pre-installed software package on an Apple computer adds value as well. In contrast, the Dell supports higher resolution, a more powerful video card, and a higher battery life.

With all of that said, do you really think one Macbook Pro is worth two Dell E1505s?

Re:And in the first week of August... (2, Informative)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775504)

It also bears mentioning that I tried to make them as equivalent as possible in this scenario. I could have easily stuck another $200 worth of upgrades into the machine (XP Pro, bigger HDD, more RAM), and then used a $750 off of $2000 to get to the same price. In that case the Dell would be a clearly superior (from a hardware standpoint) machine.

CORRECTION (1)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775515)

Please subtract $49.99 from the Apple price. I had a carrying case in my cart and did not notice it.

Re:And in the first week of August... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775635)

Holy shit!

No wonder Apple's marketshare continues to slide lower and lower - 2 percent worldwide last I checked.

There is no way in hell Apple will survive as an massively overpriced x86 OEM - Jobs better pray those iPod sales don't continue to shrink...

Especially with Vista starting to look good - even with so many things cut from it. And this is from a twenty year Apple user.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775664)

I thought the MacBooks were fairly good value, but it turns out that you can get Clevo laptops [novatech.co.uk] for a bit less, with more RAM, and bigger hard disks. No FireWire though.

Re:And in the first week of August... (3, Informative)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775721)

I believe that Inspiron is more or less consumer-laptop. If you want to compare a Dell-laptop, you should be using Precision or Latitude-laptops. Here's such a comparison:

Dell Latitude D820 with following upgrades:

2Ghz Core Duo
1GB RAM
256MB Intel Quadro NVS
80GB HD
DVD+/-RW
Bluetooth

Total price: $1823

MacBook Pro with 1GB of RAM costs $2099. So it's about $270 more expensive. For that money you get all-aluminium construction (as opposed to plastic), backlit-keyboard, OS X, A LOT nicer overall design (everyone lusts after MacBooks Pro's/PowerBooks, no-one lusts after a Dell), slot-loading optical drive. MBP also has optical audio in and out and FireWire, I don't know about the Dell.

I honestly don't think that the Apple is THAT expensive.

Re:And in the first week of August... (2, Informative)

frankie (91710) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775730)

Surely joking. That comparison is way off.
  • MBP has 667 RAM, Dell has 533
  • MBP has Pro OS, Dell has Home
  • MBP has Gig-E, Dell has 100bT
  • MBP has powered Firewire, Dell has mini iLink
  • MBP has DVI, Dell has VGA
  • Nvidia 7300 (TurboCache? Sheesh!) is a match for ATI X1300, not X1600
  • Dell has two advantages: 2L DVD, and a modem
  • Dell lacks the following: internal camera, internal microphone, digital audio in/out, MagSafe cable & backlight
  • Dell weighs a pound more

BZZT! Thank you for playing.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1)

why-did-I-wakeup (945504) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775735)

Every one just assumes the OS that is put on dells are windows. If you put linux on the desktop then you get a complete software suit. For about two thirds the price of a Mac with comparable features. Also, the "aestetics" of a Mac are what people who try and justify the cost of a Mac say. Who cares what it looks like, what matters is whats under the hood.

Re:And in the first week of August... (1)

highbrow (716454) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775317)

LOL and this comment gets +1 insightful vs the original's score of 1, troll ?

Re:And in the first week of August... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775365)

"LOL and this comment gets +1 insightful vs the original's score of 1, troll ?"

Don't worry, some idiot who wasted a bunch of cash on an Intel Mac with modpoints just granted your wish...

Re:And in the first week of August... (0)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775223)

and extra heat sink paste at no extra charge! =)

MODERATORS ON CRACK (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775457)

Who the heck gave that a Troll mod? It's not the most insightful comment, but it's on-topic and likely to happen.

Inquirer (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775132)

Interesting notes in Inquirer.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=23 055 [theinquirer.net]

The unlimited RAM option looks like an interesting feature

Re:Inquirer (-1, Offtopic)

gigne (990887) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775461)

I should really log in before I post :/

Re:Inquirer (1)

another_fanboy (987962) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775576)

stupidly large amounts of RAM on it

How much is "stupidly large"?

Re:Inquirer (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775672)

640KB of course.
Don't you know, its enough for everyone.

Wait until Thursday for the details! (2, Informative)

mgblst (80109) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775135)

Thursday... Intel plans to announce details about the branding strategy and systems that will appear with Merom processors
 
So no actual details, so don't bother reading the article. This is not worth an article!

Re:Wait until Thursday for the details! (1)

frankie (91710) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775550)

Sheesh. I submitted a more detailed article [slashdot.org] than this one on Friday. And Wikipedia has been on it for longer than that.

Meromonics (5, Funny)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775140)

I guess the 'Moron' processor name was already taken

Re:Meromonics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775150)

As was Duron.

Re:Meromonics (1)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775168)

I think "Moron" is the person who thinks up names for all Intel processors. There hasn't been a name that made sense, since the 486. I think someone just found a dictionary of the most obscure and goofy words in existance that make no sense to anyone.

Every time I hear "Celeron" I think celery, thats about as boring as it can get!

Re:Meromonics (2, Interesting)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775181)

Every time I hear "Celeron" I think celery, thats about as boring as it can get!

That's exactly what everyone I know calls them.
Even adding the ubiquitous 'X' to form 'XCeleron' would have been better ;)

Is Athlon (a.k.a. "Athalon") any better? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775218)

For girls:

        * Soon after the libidinal shift to the penis, the child develops her first sexual impulses towards her mother.
        * The girl realizes that she is physically not equipped to have a sexual relationship with her mother, as she has a clitoris and vagina, rather than a penis.
        * She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy. She sees the solution as obtaining her father's penis.
        * The girl blames her mother for her apparent castration (what she sees as punishment by the mother for being attracted to the father) assisting a shift in the focus of her sexual impulses from her mother to her father.
        * She develops a sexual desire for her father.
        * Sexual desire for her father leads to the desire to replace, and eliminate her mother.
        * The girl identifies with her mother so that she might learn to mimic her, and thus replace her.
        * The child anticipates that both aforementioned desires will incur punishment (by the principle of lex talionis)
        * The girl employs the defence mechanism of displacement to shift the object of her sexual desires from her father to men in general.

Re:Meromonics (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775232)

Well, technically, he's a Latter Day Saint. Oh, wait. You said "Moron", with an "N". Never mind.

Re:Meromonics (4, Funny)

Durandal64 (658649) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775436)

Since it's one processor with multiple cores, "Mormon" would be an appropriate code name. ;)

Re:Meromonics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775528)

IIRC this generation of chip was designed in Israel.

Merom = Israeli (1)

GabrielF (636907) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775592)

Merom is named after Meron, a town in Israel, where Intel designs and builds some of its mobile processors, such as the Core Duo and (I believe) Pentium M. Other mobile processor codenames include Dothan and Yonah, which are also Israeli. Intel has been active in Israel for a very long time, it was the location of their first overseas fab and they recently invested something like $5 billion in the country. Interestingly enough, Meron is in the Upper Galillee, and currently being shelled by Hezbollah. Two people were killed there on July, 14th by rockets.

Re:Meromonics (2, Funny)

houghi (78078) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775439)

I thought it was talking about the (note)book of Mormons.

Re:Meromonics (1)

Plammox (717738) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775499)

Intel takes its product names from U.S. geographical locations, as no one can trademark these names under U.S. law, apparently. Merom is (or could be) right here [google.com] .

Re:Meromonics (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775558)

The laptop chips (including Merom, Banias, Yonah, Dothan) come from Intel's shop in Israel and have code names from geographical locations there.

Re:Meromonics (1)

Plammox (717738) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775666)

Yes, that's true, but these project names would never become approved, if there weren't north american locations with the same name. Check for yourself.

Re:Meromonics (2, Informative)

metushelach (985526) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775561)

Meron is the name of the highest mountain in the Galilee in Israel, which is the area of Israel where Haifa is located, which is where the Intel R&D center that created this processor is located. Clear enough, or should I draw a flow-chart?

Re:Meromonics (1)

BlackTriangle (581416) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775643)

Clear enough, or should I draw a flow-chart?


If you don't want to look like an asshole, you should only be a prick when people say stupid things. The post you responded to didn't say anything stupid.


Re:Meromonics (1)

metushelach (985526) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775647)

True enough. My apologies.

Re:Meromonics (2, Informative)

PHPfanboy (841183) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775694)

Just to clarify further:

Meron is the mountain. Merom (with an M or mem) just means "Upper" as in Upper Galilee (Merom HaGalil). Very nice area in any case (though best to wait until our Lebanese friends have got bored with their fireworks display).

Banias is a freshwater spring/ glade on the Golan Heights and site of an old greek temple . Well worth a hike in summer, though best to time it with a ceasefire.

Yonah is the Hebrew version of Jonah (in Greek which was the first transliteration from the vernacular Hebrew, J is a Y sound), it's not a place (or a plaice ;))

Dothan was a town in Northern Canaan/Judea/Palestine/Israel in biblical times. IIRC it's where Joseph's brothers go off to before they feign his murder and sell him (in the Old Testament).

iMac (1)

Jerom (96338) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775154)

I've been holding of on buying one of them shiny nice new iMacs until they get a new processor. I very much doubt they will upgrade the macBookPro (as some suggest) befor they update the iMac, that remains their flagship product.

I keep my fingers crossed for a core duo 2 iMac announcment on WWDC (eventhough I know it's unlikely).

Regards,

J.

Re:iMac (1)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775176)

I think a big announcement is unlikely, but I think the upgrade of the iMac is a lock. They will put Conroes in the iMacs. I expect this will happen with much fuss, just a small note on their webpage and some signage in the Apple Stores. The big deal at WWDC is the new MacPro (with a Xeon (I figure) and OS X 10.5

Re:iMac (1)

Jerom (96338) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775281)

Actually I agree.

I had conroe and merom confused for a while.

I still hope you (we) are right and the iMac gets bumped up to a core 2.

.

Re:iMac (2, Insightful)

agentmouthwash (609247) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775212)

not necessarily. The Macbook pro is their pro laptop. They're going to try to make that on par with the Pro Mac as much as possible. Plus Apple is selling more laptops then ever now. I can see them both updated at the same time, but if the Core 2 Duo is in limited supply, it will go in the Macbook Pro.

Re:iMac (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775241)

Last year, Apple's laptop sales passed their desktop sales. This year, they are projected to do so by an even larger margin. How, exactly, is a desktop their 'flagship' product?

Re:iMac (1)

mrxak (727974) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775498)

The term "flagship" has been a bit altered in the last century or so. Nowadays, it seems to mean the most prestigious/poweful model of whatever. Going by that definition, I'd say the Mac Pro will be the flagship of the desktop line, by nature of its superior stats. Still, one could say that the MacBook Pro is the flagship of the laptop line. But this is all just semantics, the iMac is the most sold desktop for Apple right now (as far as I know), and that's mostly what the guy was saying, I believe.

Re:Flagships (1)

elessar12 (952713) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775646)

Flagship has nothing to do with sales volume. For example the Mercedes Benz Flagship is the S600 (or whatever 6xx it is now). It is not however their highest volume seller, but the most powerful most luxurious vehicle they offer no matter the cost.

Re:iMac (3, Informative)

samkass (174571) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775247)

I very much doubt they will upgrade the macBookPro (as some suggest) befor they update the iMac, that remains their flagship product.

From last week's quarterly conference call:

"Apple sold 529,000 desktops during the quarter and 798,000 notebooks."

Re:iMac (1)

olip (203119) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775786)

Armies usually don't have so many flagships, do they ?
Being a flagship is more about size than numbers...

Most would've used this term for the Powermacs.

Re:iMac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775286)

I am waiting for OS X 10.5 and Core 2 chips in the iMacs then I will switch over. I originally planned to do this last year but they went and switched to Intel damnit so I held off until Rev1 or Rev2 iMacs with Intels are out, then I decided to wait for 10.5 so it keeps getting pushed back more and more, the funny thing is it will be about the same time as Vista.

Use on an ITX board? (1)

hotspotbloc (767418) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775156)

Any chance of anyone making an ITX board to use one? It seems it would be well suited for that task too.

Re:Use on an ITX board? (2, Informative)

cnettel (836611) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775203)

Probably, as the current Meroms are close to compatible with Yonah, for which you can already buy ITX equipment. A new socket ("socket P"), FSB frequency and so on is coming in January.

Re:Use on an ITX board? (1)

hotspotbloc (767418) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775555)

Sweet. Now I wonder if it will possile to underclock a meron enough to go fanless?

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775242)

AMD launches the MoreOn processor, successor to the famous DurOn line...

What about retail Merom CPU? (3, Interesting)

nxtw (866177) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775245)

My laptop came with a Core Duo (Yonah) T2300. The CPU is a little weak at times, so I'd like to upgrade to Merom when available. (The requisite BIOS update has been available for a few months now.) Does anyone know when I'll be able to buy one from a reseller such as Newegg?

Re:What about retail Merom CPU? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775309)

Be careful with d/ling an "updated" BIOS, especially from Dell. There has been talk in the forums about the latest BIOS update locking out the possibility of a Memron upgrade instead of enabling it. And from what I have heard, it's incredibly difficult to roll back a BIOS update. Just FYI.

Re:What about retail Merom CPU? (1)

nxtw (866177) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775371)

My laptop is Acer. There are already people using Merom with this notebook and the BIOS update.

Re:What about retail Merom CPU? (1)

redragon (161901) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775624)

People are already using a CPU that's being released at the end of August?

Re:What about retail Merom CPU? (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775691)

I gather from this in the article blurb:
Intel has already begun to ship Merom processors to its PC customers and systems with Merom should begin to appear around the end of August.

That the GP poster has been speaking to some system administrators lucky enough to have some.

Why this is Apple-relevant (5, Insightful)

jht (5006) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775269)

Traditionally, Intel chip announcements are "no-big-deal", but this is the first one of any significance in the Apple Era since the original iMac/MacBook Pro announcement in January. Traditionally, IBM and Motorola/Freescale only announced a G3/G4/G5 processor whenever Apple was ready to introduce a new model using it - since Apple was the largest PPC system maker, they had some clout in that area.

In the Intel world, Intel announces a chip family and that day the big Wintel vendors are already showing off their prototypes of "about-to-ship computers using it. Apple can't be as close to the vest as they traditionally have been regarding their plans anymore - for instance, it's a no-brainer that they'll speedbump their systems anytime Intel ships speedbumped versions of the same chip. Also, the announcement of a Mac Pro is now seen as inevitable at WWDC, since the chips to power it are officially on the market. Unlike years past, the speculation is focused this year on the little details - Xeon or Core 2 Duo? Completely redesigned case or minor refresh? The fact of the machine itself is more of a done deal.

Because this is the first WWDC in the post-Intel era, it'll be interesting to see what the buying trend is - for instance, I have one client who is holding off the two weeks until WWDC before buying either a G5 tower or Xserve - based on the system configs in play, that's about $40k in deferred revenue (on the other hand, another one just bought a G5 Quad). Part of the reason that Apple used to be so tight-lipped about announcements was to avoid these deferred purchases, so it'll be interesting to see what happens now.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775351)

Only a complete idiot would spend 40k on Intel based Macs.

If performance is the need, then quad-970 Macs will beat the crap out of anything coming out of Intel or AMD this year.

If existing Mac software needs to be run, the paltry amount of native Intel apps makes PPC Macs the only choice.

If neither of those, then there is little reason not to save a huge amount of cash and buy from Dell or any other x86 OEM.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775502)

BS. The only significant non-Universal software still out there is Adobe CS. Everything else that matters is either converted or non-intensive.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (2, Insightful)

jht (5006) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775771)

I feel like I'm troll-feeding here, but unless your workflow is CS2-based, odds are your productivity app of choice is universal already. And if it is, you'll get a big performance boost from a Intel Mac vs. the same Mac's PPC-based predecessor. Why wouldn't a quad-Xeon Mac Pro be likely to blow the doors off a G5 quad, or at least be competitive/faster?

Besides that, since you generally don't pay a huge speed penalty in running apps through Rosetta (depends on the app, of course), if you need a newer Mac, why not buy the technology that's going to be shipped/supported far longer down the road, suck it up a little for now and use Rosetta, and get a big improvement when the universal upgrade ships? I really don't see that as enough of an deterrent to convince a diehard Mac user to change to Windows. With rare exceptions, Mac people are Mac people, period. The only thing that would get them to Windows is either force or no more Apple. And if I actually thought they'd be better served by generic x86 hardware and Windows, and I pushed them that way, the easiest thing my clients would do is probably find someone else who wouldn't push Windows on them.

Look, I don't hate Windows. And I've built most of my own x86 boxes over the years. I even own six Dells, including my home gaming PC and what's in my office. But c'mon - to really assert that there's no reason to buy an Intel-based Mac because G5 quads are faster with pre-universal software is silly. And to call anyone spending $40k on Intel Macs an idiot - that's just a troll, and a bad one at that.

And on a related note, I see no problem with delaying a non-time critical Xserve purchase to see what will replace it in Intel equivalent products. I've told the client that unless the Intel-based Xserve turns out to have a compelling feature (like onboard video freeing up both PCI slots, or on-board RAID for the built-in drive bays), to stick with the PPC version during the transition period that's likely to occur (there's usually an interval of a couple of weeks when you can order both models).

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

wateriestfire (962915) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775360)

it would be interesting if Apple continued to use PPC for its Power Macs. With the PowerPC G6 starting to be completed which will be double the speed of intel and sun, the power macs could still use them in it's power line. Maybe they could also use a Cell processor from IBM which hosts many processors. Only time will tell.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775417)

"it would be interesting if Apple continued to use PPC for its Power Macs"

What?

Apple has no choice, IBM dumped them as a customer over a year ago. Apple is stuck with whatever the hell Intel puts out this year.

Jobs will most likely once again do a downclock on current PPC based Macs like they have a couple times so far - gotta keep up the impression that Apple 'chose Intel'...

A G5/G6 with a multi-Cell daughter card...Sigh...Apple spent so many years getting OS X ready for such a system and Jobs' incompetence in dealing with IBM shattered those plans.

Too bad PA Semi wasn't ready to handle Apple's needs resulting in Apple being forced to turn to Intel as a last choice.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

dloose (900754) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775485)

Got sources for any of this?

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775677)

I don't know about OS X and Cell - although it does sound insanely cool.

There have been multiple interviews with IBM about their decision to drop Apple as a customer. The main one was with the main PPC exec responsible for dealing with Apple. Although IBM appears to have taken the high road and let Jobs spin things in public. I don't think IBM really cares about the less than 4 percent of their chip business that Apple represented.

There was another informal interview with one of the mid-level IBM PPC guy who gave a laundry list of stupid things Apple did to IBM with chip orders. It sounded like it was a nightmare to work with Apple and IBM had a 'good riddance' attitude after the decision was made a couple years ago to drop them.

There were article earlier this year that talked about Apple going to PASemi after IBM dropped them looking to bail Apple out, but I guess PA wasn't going to be ready in time. Although looking back over the past year and the Intel mess and Apple begging them to move their chips plans forward, PA would have been much better move for Apple.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775545)

Apple could still turn to AMD if Intel truly shafted them...

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775579)

But the Apple engineers will have more free time to... I dunno make the iPod even smaller (What's smaller than nano? Quantum?)

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

Speare (84249) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775590)

deci, centi, milli, micro, nano, pico, femto, atto, zepto, yocto...

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant (1)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775623)

iPod Pico: 4GB storage, doubles as an eyebrow ring. This will be closely followed by the iPod Femto; same storage, but it's applied at the store with a roller as a temporary tattoo. It washes off when the warranty expires.

Friday 06 May 2005, 10:15 (0, Flamebait)

Visaris (553352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775272)

Friday 06 May 2005, 10:15

Way to post an article that is over a year old. The is just silly. The article lists the old order of product releases; the new order is actually reversed. Move along, nothing to see here. Google news will do much better.

Waiting for the dust to settle (1, Interesting)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775290)

I do want to try out this "AMD killer" architecture but I'll wait for the dust to settle. Probably wait for Dec/Jan before getting a kit to use in my benchmarks.

That and the name sucks. At least when you say T6600 or whatever you can get a sense of what it is [provided you know the model numbering which also changes too much]. Core 2 Duo ... how's that different from Core Duo?

Also it's getting harder and harder to find official optimization guides/pipeline descriptions out of Intel. Or maybe I'm not looking in the right places. What do they have to hide?

Tom

Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo (3, Funny)

everphilski (877346) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775367)

Core 2 Duo ... how's that different from Core Duo? from gur3d.com [guru3d.com]
The key differences of the new architecture [Core 2 Duo] from the "ideologically closest" Intel Core Duo (Yonah) are as follows:
* Improved instruction decoder extended to 4 decoders of x86 macroops (vs. 3 of Intel Pentium M / Core Duo)
* 128-bit SIMD instruction performance of 1 instruction per clock in each execution unit (twice as faster as Yonah)
* Improved memory operation and hardware prefetch mechanisms
* L2 cache is dynamically shared by both cores depending on load (as seen in Intel Core Duo)
* Further improved energy saving
* A new SIMD instruction set SSE4.

Re:Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775395)

I said "official". As in where are the optimization guides from Intel? Heck they barely cover PentiumM let alone Core and Core 2 processors.

"L2 cache dynamically shared" is known as a "LRU scheme" over a fast front side bus [hint: both cores talk to the same cache ... they're going to bump into each other, even if the thing is dual ported].

Tom

Re:Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775445)

"L2 cache dynamically shared" is known as a "LRU scheme" over a fast front side bus [hint: both cores talk to the same cache ... they're going to bump into each other, even if the thing is dual ported].

I was under the impression that the cache used a hybrid LRU/LFU scheme, but I could be wrong. As to the cores bumping into each other, a single core can bump into itself if it runs out of cache space. Sharing the cache doesn't mean that there is less, it means that it can be more efficiently used. If both cores are running threads in the same process and accessing the same data, then it only needs to be in the cache once, so less total cache space is needed. Additionally, message passing (ITC) between cores can go via the cache, rather than via main memory, making some things a lot faster.

Re:Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775492)

ok first off, there can only be so many buses to the cache, chances are there are two, one for one half and one for the other half. They probably split the cache along ways that go into each others space [e.g., first use a way local to you then use the other].

They're going to "bump into each other" when both cores try to access cache that is attached to the same bus.

Also, while for a single process a shared cache sounds all nice and fancy, for many HPC tasks it's not such a hot idea. This alone will make scientific work a bit of a challenge on it.

Of course can't say much until I get one in my hands I guess...

Tom

Merom has 64bit support (3, Informative)

pathological liar (659969) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775333)

While I doubt anyone's going to have enough ram in a laptop to need 64bit pointers anytime soon, the extra general purpose registers will be nice.

Re:Merom has 64bit support (2, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775473)

I don't need 64-bit in a laptop. I do, however, fairly frequently need 33-bit or 34-bit pointers (virtual address space for mmap'd files). A 36-bit CPU would be enough, but a 64-bit CPU means you don't need to change the ISA every few years.

This is the same philosophy as ZFS; no one is ever likely to need a 128-bit filesystem. Without resorting to quantum storage, you would need a hard drive the size of a planet if you encoded one bit per atom. If you used electron states for storing data then you could maybe shave some of the size off, and reduce it to the size of a small moon. It is likely that within the next 5-10 years, however, that a lot of people will start needing a 65-bit filesystem.

64 bits for large file handling (1)

faramir_fr (831190) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775673)

There is an obvious advantage of using a 64 bits system... large files handling. In my case it's the panoramic image stitching that fells free when ran on a 64 bits system.

Slashdot: shiny new theme, (-1, Offtopic)

Jerk City Troll (661616) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775491)

But increased irrelevance. I am sure I am not alone in noticing that Slashdot stories are fewer in number and of substantially less interest these days. Most of the articles are pointless product releases and a great many others make us yawn. Very few actually present worth giving some attention. I suspect this is due to other sites like Digg and Reddit serving as more effective news aggregators. Anyone else care to share any observations (aside from “Slashdot is dying” trolls)?

I wonder.. (5, Funny)

metushelach (985526) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775526)

Considering their R&D center for this processor is in Haifa, is this what the Hizbollah are REALLY after? (Or rather - Can it be that the true culprit behind the latest clashing in the middle east is, actually, AMD?) One has to wonder..

Re:I wonder.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775542)

Huh?

Re:I wonder.. (2, Interesting)

metushelach (985526) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775583)

Merom was developed in the R&D center of Intel in Haifa, Israel. Hizbollah is shooting rockets from Lebanon into all of northern Israel, but paying special attention to Haifa. So I was wondering, if AMD was the one who was paying Hizbollah, to attack the biggest R&D center Intel has outside the US. (and there goes my attempt to making this sound funny)

Re:I wonder.. (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775789)

Heh heh. Why else do you think the company is secretly called 'Arafat Must Die'? Of course, if some idiot ever made that fact public, I wouldn't give two pins for his life -- he'd be hunted down and aosn23 9f8lretn@#@@

marketing foobar (0)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775534)

I saw an Dell/Intel commercial last night. "Now with the new core solo!" I'm back to being pissed at Intel. These gay naming schemes designed to confuse newbies has got to stop. So, yay for them on yet another processor. I hope it, and Intel stock, bites the dust. Go Turion or whatever etc... etc...

Re:marketing foobar (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775584)

AMD Nomenclature is a bit simpler if you include the full title.

If I told you I got a 3800+ in my box, what cpu is that? Unless you work around AMD gear a lot you wouldn't know it's a AMDx2, etc...

But yeah if I told you it's a AMDx2 2.4Ghz 4800+ processor you'd have a decent idea what it is. You can do this with intel too... e.g..

"Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13Ghz" gives a decent idea that it's a dual-core 2.13Ghz 2nd generation Core processor. Of course Dell and the like will say things like "Intel Core 2 Duo!" or "Core Duo" or whatever...

The devil is in the details. The trick is to check model numbers against the descriptions on the providers website. So if they say it's and Intel E6300, you should go to the Intel website and look up what E6300 means.

Tom

Re:marketing foobar (1)

The Mayor (6048) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775671)

Yes. After all, it's so difficult from the naming convention to tell that the Solo has one core, and the Duo has two cores. Yes, the naming convention is pretty confusing. With a name like Turion, it's so obvious that it has only one core. (OK, so I'm ignoring the Core 2 Duo name...that one *is* pretty f'ed).

Where is this chip being developed? (1)

elessar12 (952713) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775585)

I am just wondering as the word Merom sounds like hebrew and I know Intel has a large R&D center in Haifa. Consequently I wonder if the current hostilities there could cause delays in this chip developement. Of course I base it all on the name of the chip which may mean nothing.

This is so cool.. (3, Funny)

saboola (655522) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775614)

I just ordered a Core Duo about 10 minutes ago, sweet! Glad to know its obsolete before it even hits my doorstep :)

Not to be confused with... (1)

daskrabs (976610) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775648)

..."meecrob" which, according to Cartman, "is way grosser than 'shit', dude."

Old news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15775665)

This looks like old news.
  I heard Intel has decided to push its deadlines forward, and Merom should start shipping by the end of july

Hey, I get it! (1)

3-State Bit (225583) | more than 8 years ago | (#15775697)

See, there's the Pentium M [wikipedia.org] , and "Merom" backwards is "moreM". So it's like Intel's flagship mobility-enabling product, but more so! (Oserom).

May I be the first to predict the following road map:
  1. Merom
  2. Merom Neve
    and finally, after dozens of missed deadlines, project renamings, and changes in leadership, the long-awaited revolutionary:
  3. Merom LLI Total Submersion.

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