Nvidia CEO Talks Next-Gen Consoles 173
kukyfrope writes "Jen-Hsun Huang, CEO of Nvidia recently shared his thoughts with the San Jose Mercury News about next-gen consoles, claiming that developing a chip for the 360 was too expensive and that the inclusion of a Blu-ray player will help the console last for 10 years. Huang also predicts that the 360 cannot afford to be a DVD-only system by Christmas 2007, likening the 360-DVD vs PS3-Blu-ray battle to the Dreamcast-CD vs PS2-DVD battle. 'The first PlayStation had a CD-ROM drive. The PlayStation 2 had DVD. It makes no sense for the PlayStation 3 to use DVDs. To postpone it by a few months so they could include Blu-ray was a master stroke. When that comes out, it's going to look so much more advanced than last-generation game consoles,' Huang said."
Of course Nvidia says it's a great move (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Of course Nvidia says it's a great move (Score:2)
Re:Of course Nvidia says it's a great move (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Advanced Is Great (Score:2)
Re:Advanced Is Great (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Advanced Is Great (Score:2)
If you remember back when DVDs were first introduced, the same arguments were used. Some console games still ship on regular CDs, however a lot(most?) of the current console games are bumping against the single layer DVD limit. If/when single-layer Blu-Ray discs be
Re:Advanced Is Great (Score:2)
The data capacity problem was much worse for the PS1 then it is today, but the PS3 has about 15 times as much memory as the PS2 which will firmly push games into the dual-layer DVD area.
Dual layer discs are still roughly 25% more costly to replicate than single layer discs and skipping between the layers does cause a the data to pause
Blue-ray (Score:4, Insightful)
How many consoles have games available ten years after launch?
Re:Blue-ray (Score:3, Informative)
You can still buy the console let alone games for it.
Re:Blue-ray (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
I personally don't understand the logic behind viewing the blu-ray part of the PS3 as a selling point. Who really cares? Is the subtle (in most cases) graphical advantage really going to make my gaming experience sufficiently more fun to justify the extra cost? I really doubt it.
Re:Blue-ray (Score:1)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:1)
PS2 games come out by the dozen each week, DC games are one or two a month. I don't think MS would want that.
Re:Blue-ray (Score:5, Interesting)
However, new games don't imply new IP! The floundering of Prince of Persia in the marketplace, in spite of what many industry insiders considered a very well executed game, convinced many in the industry that there's only a small window at the beginning of a system's life to launch new IP in. After a certain point it's just not worth it because people don't buy AAA games that aren't sequels in sufficent quantities to recoup development costs. Sad, but apparently true.
Strangly enough, a theory has also developed that says that while you need to rush out new IP at the beginning of the life of a new system, if you're doing a sequel to existing IP on a new system it's not worth it to push it out in that early window. It's better to take your time and "get things right"/wait for the install base to develop before you push out things like GTA 4 or Halo 3.
Re:Blu-ray (Score:2)
Re:Blu-ray (Score:1)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:1)
Which Prince of Persia are you referring to?
Re:Blue-ray (Score:3, Insightful)
OTOH, it is sad that some incredible games (Psychonauts, Beyond Good and Evil, Metal Arms: Glitch in the System) don't get the install base they deserve. Or perhaps the sequels they deserve. But I'm sure it has a lot to do with the fact that games aren't anywhere near as makete
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
Not DOS, Not Mac (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, there were quite a number of Prince of Persia games that came before, and Jordan Mechner was involved with Sands of Time. However, from the point of view of the publisher it was treated as new IP for a few reasons, the main one being the spotty release history of the series and the low brand awareness in the target market. The previous version, Prince of Persi
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
The Atari 2600 was available until around 1990. It launched in 1977.
The Intellivision was available until the early 90's. It launched in 1980.
The NES was available until 1995, being launched in America around 1985/86. ('85 was the test market.)
The Famicom was released in 1983, and ran until 2003, for a complete run of 20 years. (!)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
A certain fellow by the name of Jack Trameil decided that consoles weren't important. As a result, Atari's units were hard to find after the crash of '83/'84. INTV Corp was mostly mail-order, although they did sell many units and games through Toys'R'Us until the NES displaced the conso
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
The Wikipedia entry for "Video game consoles" has some charts showing the lifespans of selected consoles in North America, Japan, and Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console [wikipedia.org]
The only consoles to approach a ten-year lifespan in the United States were the Atari VCS/2600 and the original Nintendo Entertainment System. It must be noted, too, that after each's 6-year mark or so, the manufacturers were looking to move on to the next gene
Re:Blue-ray (Score:3, Informative)
The Intellivision should also be showing a 10+ year lifespan, but someone screwed up by the numbers. The charts list the Intellivision as ending in 1984. This was the date that Mattel Electronics closed down, however, not the date that the Intellivision stopped being supported. A former VP of Mattel purchased the Intellivision properties and formed INTV Corp. Not only
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
Re:Blue-ray (Score:2)
PS4 Release Date (Score:5, Funny)
So, we're talking about perhaps a 2016 Release Date for PS4? Just making sure, so I can start saving up my $$ now
sigh (Score:3, Interesting)
The ps2 will be a ten year system if they can still sell it for the next 5ish years. Which they probably can due to strong brand name appeal and the expense of the new system. (ps2's still outsell xbox360's week by week now).
Re:sigh (Score:2)
Also add in the available library (wether you factor in backward compatibility or not).
I hadn't thought of it, but the PS3 coming out now makes more sense.
I don't think Sony expects to initially sell to anyone other than hard core gamers/fans. Once those units are sold, hopefully they
Re: (Score:2)
Re:sigh (Score:2)
Re:sigh (Score:1)
* Disclaimer, I own a PS2, XBOX and a Gamecube. Will buy into next generation when price d
Re:sigh (Score:1)
Re:sigh (Score:1)
Not the link I was looking for, but it does back up what I was saying.
Re:PS4 Release Date (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, it's more ironic than that, because Sony (well, Ken Kutaragi, head of the division that makes the PS3) has in the past said they're planning on upgrading the PS3 throughout its lifecycle. See, since it's really a computer, apparently he thinks they can get away with announcing "upgraded" versions. So by 2016, the PS4 might finally replace the PS3-OSR2-SP5 or something.
The actual quote is:
Re:PS4 Release Date (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a reason why only hardcore gamers play PC games more complicated than Solitaire or Tetris. They're the only ones with the time and energy to keep the system working with the latest games.
The consoles serve the rest of the market, and Sony is about to shoot themselves in the foot by messing t
Re:PS4 Release Date (Score:1)
Re:PS4 Release Date (Score:2)
a) Dammit, those bacteria better respect the DRM!
or
b) Yeah, but that still won't be enough for Squeenix's cutscenes.
Better intro (Score:1)
The point about Blu-Ray and DVD is that the playstation is following an evolution pattern, waiting for the correct time to updrage. PS1 had CD, PS2 had DVD, PS3 has to evolve.
as for my opinion, i still use my PS2, and have no intention to buy an XBOX of anykind, (IE i don't have a XBOX 1) the PS2 can do everything i want, soon i will want to upgrade to newer technology, and i'll be looking at what's going to last me long
Re:Better intro (Score:1)
Blu-ray is a poor idea (Score:1)
How Much? (Score:1)
Re:How Much? (Score:1)
Re:Blu-ray is a poor idea (Score:1)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Sony paid him a contract for the GPU in the PS3. In addition to that, that's the only next-gen console GPU nVidia made so they have a reason to hype the PS3 over the other consoles.
I'll wager an insightful mod point.
Just one question, do you own a gamecube? (Score:2)
Please remember your history, if price has never mattered before why should it now? I am not saying that the PS3 will be a success. I just don't think price will be the deciding factor. Or maybe my PC gaming has just made me think th
Re:Blu-ray is a poor idea (Score:2)
in 6-12 months the PS3 will not still cost $600, it will slowly be creeping down. As it does more and more people who were holding off on buying it will finally pick it up which will keep the PS3 sales numbers high, which is very good for Sony.
Re:Blu-ray is a poor idea (Score:2)
"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:4, Insightful)
Dreamcast's failure had little to do with the storage medium as many games released for PS2
were also released for dreamcast. (Not every game USES the full capacity of the medium)
Another thing to think about is that the world hadn't had a *significant* change in home video formats
for more than a decade when DVD first surfaced. The public was ready and willing to buy into DVD.
This time around the *demand* simply doesn't exist. Sony will of course try to *generate* demand
via bruteforce marketing, but ultimately this may prove to be a mistake.
BTW. There does seem to be a slight hint of bitterness in his comments, which is understandable given
that EVERY one of the next-gen consoles are powered by their rival's GPUs. (ATI)
It seems odd for Nvidia to claim that developing a GPU for the 360 was too expensive when ATI managed to
do not only that, but the PS3 and Wii GPUs as well.
Nvidia dropped the ball big time by not developing a new GPU for at least one of the nextgen consoles...
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:1)
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:2, Informative)
Just to set things right cosmically...
Nvidia developed the "RSX" GPU for the PS3.
Nvidia RSX @550MHz
* 1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
* Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
* Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:1, Redundant)
If you'd read the full article, or even the linked to snippet, you'd know this.
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:1)
Soooorrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyy!
NVIDIA DEVELOPED THE GPU FOR THE PS3!
NVIDIA DEVELOPED THE GPU FOR THE PS3!
NVIDIA DEVELOPED THE GPU FOR THE PS3!
(how many "Hail Nvidia"'s do I have to do to make penance!?!)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:2)
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:1)
I seem to remember something about dreamcast games being easily ripped on CD (without any modifications). Easily pirated games leads to less game manufacturers, leads to less interest, leads to...well, you know.
Maybe the media didn't cause the 100% of the failure, but I think it contributed significantly.
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:2)
Demand is real (Score:2)
via bruteforce marketing, but ultimately this may prove to be a mistake.
That is spoken as if you have not seen how much better true HD content looks. Even on just a 720P display the difference between HD video and DVD is striking and easy to see. All it takes is a few viewings and people want HD sets - that is why sales of the things have been pretty good.
Migration of a new HD format is also vrey easy for those
Re: (Score:2)
Re:"Advanced" for the sake of it... (Score:2)
(lower texture res, lower quality video (who has CG in games anymore?!)
Having played through Resident Evil 4 several times on both the Gamecube AND the PS2
I can tell you that the GC version offered much better visuals, MUCH MUCH faster
load times (possibly due to smaller discs?
(The PS2 version included BONUS features (side-missions, new guns and a couple new costumes)
as bait because the game had a
Graphics aren't everthing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Graphics aren't everthing... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Graphics aren't everthing... (Score:2)
Agreed. Whoever has the favor of Square-Enix has a great chance of "winning" next-gen.
However, what's interesting this time around, is that Square-Enix may be moving more cross platform than ever before. It all started with FF:Crystal Chronicles on the GC, and now we're getting news of their games on all the platforms. Sony still seems to have the most favor, with the main Final Fantasy franchise still exclusive to the PS3 (at least for now), but I imagine that could easily change. It'll still
Re:Graphics aren't everthing... (Score:2)
*hops off the "get one/don't get one" fence*
BZZT!!!! Wrong! (Score:2)
Back in the day I bought a PS2 because it allowed me to also play DVDs. Blu-Ray is the reason that I'm waiting for the PS3.
$600 for a next gen console that also plays all my PS2 games and a next gen movie player? Sign me up!
I gotta this there's a hell of a lot of people that see this value proposition besides myself.
Cheers,
Bill
PS But I hope Sony can speed it up a bit. I'
Storage expands options (Score:2)
Basically that extra space gives game makers more options, which can in turn lead to a potentially wider number of good games (just on a percentage basis).
Cutscene is one dimension (Score:2)
Next-gen? (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Next-gen? (Score:2)
PS2 was probably "nextgen" til Xbox and GC rounded it out and made it a generation.
Right now, 360 stands alone.
Thank you for your comments! (Score:4, Interesting)
He sounds remorseful enough that it indicates he wished Microsoft had picked Nvidia. But then again, he's also a bit glad:
So, here's the president of one of the main suppliers for the PS3 talking about how Microsoft didn't choose him, but even if they did, his company couldn't afford to actually build the GPU for the 360? Excuse me if I don't take his comments with a bucket full of salt.
To top it off, as in any article discussing graphics, we're about ten years away from photorealism, just as we were in 2001 and 1996.
To his credit though, I really liked this exchange which is in the full interview [mercurynews.com]:
His response is, "Screw graphics, let's work on gameplay." I can't knock him for that.
Re:Thank you for your comments! (Score:1)
2016 will be a whole new world. Reminds me of the Conan sketch:
"In the year 2000..."
Re:Thank you for your comments! (Score:1)
Remember, it was nVidia that made the graphics chips for the original XBox. It is possible that this guy knows what he's talking about in terms of the cost to develop a brand-spanking-new GPU and the price that Microsoft was willing to pay for
Re:Thank you for your comments! (Score:2)
Sony doesn't embrace homebrew content, at least if the PSP is any indication. I don't know to what extent the big three embrace small developers.
I was also going to say something about how downloadable PS1 and PS2 games seemed a bit out the question, but a lot of the demos on Xbox Live Marketplace are near 500MB.
Re:Thank you for your comments! (Score:2)
Maybe back in the SNES Mortal Kombat days, but not in more modern times, where Sony was the one who toned down BMXXX and Nintendo let Conker's Bad Fur Day ride.
Advanced (Score:2, Insightful)
Now there's an ignorant statement if I've ever read one. Since when did storage medium directly affect the talent and output of a development team? That's like saying your daughter will be a better driver if you buy her a Lexus instead of a Honda.
Re:Advanced (Score:1)
Re:Advanced (Score:1)
Re:Advanced (Score:2)
Re:Advanced (Score:2)
Trust me, there are stupid people who actually believe that, not because of any additional safety features, but simply because it's a different car.
So it's not that large a leap to imagine people making these ridiculous promises about how better graphics are going
Dreamcast VS PS2 - Not the same thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Eh, I'm not so sure about this. First of all, the Dreamcast didn't use a CD-ROM. It was a proprietary 'GD-ROM' that was actually a higher capacity disk (at least 1GB, i don't remember the details). The point wasn't that the dreamcast's media wasn't big enough to hold the content the developers were looking to put out, it was just that the machine didn't play DVD movies.
The 360 can play DVD movies just like the PS2 and PS3. It just can't play *BluRay* movies. The catch is, we're yet to find out whether people are even going to even care about that or not (format wars, HDTV requirement, DRM, etc).
Back then, one system had functionality that the other lacked, and that added functionality happened to be something that was important to alot of consumers. That being said, it surely wasn't the lack of DVD video functionality that broke SEGA.
We won't be seeing *games* that push the limits of each system's storage capacity for some time. Not to mention, most buyers buy the system that has the games they want to play. The only exception to that is a parent who doesn't care either way, so they'll more than likely opt for the cheaper (360/wii) or more kid-friendly (wii) of the bunch.
...and the 360 will have a HD DVD accessory (Score:2)
Given the price differential between PS3 and the 360, the consumer will have the choice between paying around the same for game consumer + HD playback, but those who just want to play games can ge the 360 without HD disc playback, with the option to upgrade later.
motion blur, depth of field? (Score:2)
In the next several years, we will still just be learning to do the basics of film, like motion blur, depth of field -- all of that stuff alone chews up a lot of graphics processing
Didn't 3dfx (now owned by nvidia) already have tech to do just this? I believe it was called T-Buffering. Can anyone in-the-know fill us in?
BBH
3dfx already did it... (Score:2, Interesting)
"SLI is probably one of the most important innovations that we have brought in the last several years."
3dfx had a very similar, albeit not identical, system ages ago.
"Nvidia 1.0 was building 3-D graphics. Creating the consumer 3-D market."
No, that was 3dfx again.
Of course, Nvidia bought the remains of 3dfx so perhaps they're counting that.
Revisionist history aside, the full interview here [mercurynews.com] (not the watered down blog post), is really interesting, and exactly the sort of thing that shou
well, maybe (Score:1)
Doesn't matter for game system (Score:2)
However I think it is unlikley that Blu-Ray will fail to that degree, in part because every PS3 will have one and so consumers will start using it, in part because those already having Netflix
Stopped Reading After 2nd Paragraph (Score:2)
Tell that to IBM [reed-electronics.com]
Re:Stopped Reading After 2nd Paragraph (Score:2)
DVD had nothing to do with Dreamcast's demise (Score:2)
No Madden no sale.
Re:DVD had nothing to do with Dreamcast's demise (Score:2)
They were the #1 publisher back then. They're the #1 publisher now. Regardless of the relative sizes of the pool of gamers between the two times EA was, in the industry, the same powerhouse back then.
I'd also argue that Madden was in no way as popular back then as with the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube generation.
Madden has been hugely popular since the Sega Genesis days. Go look at the historical sales charts going back to '95 or so.
EA said, "No
DVD vs Blu-Ray (Score:3, Insightful)
So if the games don't need the extra space, the compatibility with movies is the only real reason to choose one media type over the other. Since I believe both new DVD formats (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) will fail, the added cost to the PS3 isn't worth it.
Re:DVD vs Blu-Ray (Score:2)
He's right, despite the obvious bias (Score:2)
All he's saying is that the inclusion of a next generation movie format will be important to the success of the console. He's right for a couple of reasons.
1) Whoever wins this round of the format wars will be the last optical format for the delivery of movies and games.
2) By shipping a popular game cons
Good response (Score:2)
I just cannot understand how people ignore the obvious advantage Blu-Ray and Sony have with millions of players in peoples homes by the end of the year. As a way to jump-start a format, it is an awesome sight to behold from just the sheer scale of it.
If Microsoft had included HD-DVD I would not know which way the fight between formats would go down, not
Hard drive (Score:2)
On these two fronts, I think that the 360 developers already assume that everyone has hard drives so I don't know the silly bundling move that Microsoft made will actually hurt them that much. I think we'll see the hard driveless bundle dropped before the end of the year.
As for the Wii,