Digital Replicas May Change Games and Film 141
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Steve Perlman is touting technology that he says can create animated digital reproductions of the human body that are as accurate as photographs, the Wall Street Journal reports. From the article: 'Game makers could use the system, called Contour, to create very realistic animated characters in videogames with fully controllable movements and facial expressions. Film makers could use the technology as a kind of digital makeup, changing an actor's looks or words or switch camera angles without costly retakes. The technology can even substitute one actor's face for another's and create exact replicas of long-dead historical figures.'"
hooray (Score:1, Funny)
Re:hooray (Score:1)
Re:hooray (Score:2)
Now add to that virtual enriched realities.
Could be real fun. I have a vision of young fellows marching to Verdun with gaming sports equipment in their hands.
Or watch Jesus live.
Re:hooray (Score:1)
Re:hooray (Score:1)
Re:hooray (Score:2)
Movie to game adaptions (Score:1, Insightful)
I only see the use of this technology for movie to game adaptions were they can quickly copy a real life actor to 3D. For the rest, why would you want to hire multiple actors to do the same thing what a couple of voice actors, motion capture actors and animators can do.
Besides, how would you use this technology in a non-realistic game.
Rtfa (Score:4, Informative)
And to deal with your second question, textures will still be added after capturing structure and movement information, so you could make people blue, tweak the models or whatever after the fact still. (Like in the example, the teeth, skin, hair etc are all being slotted back in from photo's)
Did you go near the article? Yes yes, I know, I must be new here...
Re:Movie to game adaptions (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Movie to game adaptions (Score:4, Informative)
Definitely a clever and newsworthy idea.
It fills some important gaps... (Score:2)
I can see a lot of practical uses (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I can see a lot of practical uses (Score:2)
Re:I can see a lot of practical uses (Score:3, Funny)
You must be new here.
Re:Movie to game adaptions (Score:4, Interesting)
Motion capture doesn't work for the face. You could be thinking about performance capture, which does capture the face, but there's debate about how effective that really is. In any event, no, it has NOT been here for ages. If one actor really can drive the actions of another, this is a Big Deal TM. You would not believe the amount of work that is done to deal with facial movements on a character. Check out the extras DVDs on King Kong or I, Robot if you're really curious about it.
"I only see the use of this technology for movie to game adaptions were they can quickly copy a real life actor to 3D. For the rest, why would you want to hire multiple actors to do the same thing what a couple of voice actors, motion capture actors and animators can do."
Funny, the article had a couple of interesting ideas in that department. The character aging in reverse gag, for example, is a rather interesting one. As for the latter half of your question, the answer is time. The end result is a moving character. It's time consuming to hand-key animation, not to mention the potential for lack of subtlety. If you can just throw one talented actor into a scanner and get the performance you need with minimal clean-up, you're in a better place.
"Besides, how would you use this technology in a non-realistic game."
Have you played San Andreas?
I realize a lot of people in this thread don't see the point. Just remember that the human body is the hardest thing to get right when it comes to CG. Remember all those complaints in the Star Wars prequels and the Matrix Trilogy about the digital doubles not looking right? Contour may or may not drag us from that rut, I couldn't tell you. What I can tell you is that it's still a problem today and it's a Good Thing if they can find a solution that allows the talents of actors to drive the performance of a CG character. The possibilities are a lot broader than a lot of you can imagine. Go read an issue or two of Cinefex. You'll be surprised at what technologies are already making a huge difference in modern movies, even though you probably never have noticed.
Virtual Stars? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Voice actors would still be required, unless your advertising campaign is going to be all done with silent films.
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Click [thedoctorsays.co.uk]
Warning: plugin required, probably not work safe, funny.
Rich
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Look no further than Andy Serkis for proof on both counts.
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:4, Insightful)
Plus we would loose all the nice scandals - but I'm not too sure if this would be an overall plus or minus.
I do believe this type of stuff will really help small production films. I'm not so certain how it would work out for major shows - it may be that even with 50% of the current popularity it would still be such a profit maker that they wouldn't care (just like the mentioned reality shows - they are just so cheap to produce it doesn't take much audience to make a lot of money). Though in the long run that just leaves open a great void for another form of entertainment to rule, at the least such lowered production and distribution costs would really reduce the studios influence (much as what the RIAA is currently thinking of with home studios and digital distribution).
Virtual stars sure, virtual indie films, no. (Score:3, Insightful)
Actors are cheap; CG is expensive. The percieved 'cost' of actors is distorted by how much it costs to hire a super-star, but most low-budget films can't afford that anyway, so they're using no-name actors to begin with. I think the actors' salaries are a pretty small part of most small-budget films who aren't trying to hire someone with name recognition.
A machine would definitely be cheaper than hiring Harrison Ford, but to para
Re:Virtual stars sure, virtual indie films, no. (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:2)
Yeah, CG actors don't have such lose morals as normal actors.
;)
Re:Virtual Stars? (Score:4, Interesting)
Been done, japense virtual idol (Score:4, Interesting)
She was apparently a moderate success, a typical idol. Not all idols are shortlived but she was and with so many real girls wanting to be idols who wants to create a virtual one? They are so hard to audition on the couch if you know what I mean.
But yeah, you can see the appeal of a virtual Han Solo or Indiana Jones. Just crank them movies out without having to deal with a grandpa actor.
UNLIMITED P0RN! and some serious comments (Score:5, Insightful)
Leaving the p0rn industry for a moment, anyone who ever sold a picture of themselves and waived all future rights and royalties is going to be in for a surprise, especially if the picture is them in a birthday suit. You may see congressional action to protect people from having their images used in such ways if they signed "all rights" contracts before the technology became available.
Someday, we will have the ability to create totally new "people" for movies, without relying on any existing images. That way the whole concept of royalties and rights is avoided altogether.
Re:UNLIMITED P0RN! and some serious comments (Score:1)
> primes and putting them all in one movie. Check that, 1,000 different movies. Now it's possible. On
> a serious note, the less actual sex involved in making the porn, the less risk to the actors.
Oh yeah, just think of the hundreds of broken necks and sore knees that can be avoided.
Another change to the porn industry would be that they could provide porn software, instead of a rendering using the software
Re:virtual pop icons (Score:3, Interesting)
This has been done in Japan. The first one I remember is Kyoko http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9702/04/japan.date/kyoko.s m.movie.html [cnn.com]
but I've seen other, more realistic stuff since then.
How long before (virtual) snuff films are so real the "thought police" legislate against them?
Re:virtual pop icons (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:UNLIMITED P0RN! and some serious comments (Score:1)
"I am the perfect female type, age 18 to 25." (Score:2)
Sorry, Porn Stars are Still Cheaper (Score:1)
Re:Sorry, Porn Stars are Still Cheaper (Score:2)
Re:Sorry, Porn Stars are Still Cheaper (Score:2)
Getting paid $5M is not very likely with more and more amateurs posting their own videos from camcorders and webcams for free/revenge.
Re:UNLIMITED P0RN! and some serious comments (Score:2, Interesting)
If this technology is used for pr0n its only a matter of time until someone sells custom-made pornos of the buyer with the partner(s) of thier choice.
I don't know if you are serious or ironic (Score:1)
If you are serious, let me spell it out. A lot of people who signed away "all rights" for the use of photographs had no way of knowing what the future technology would bring. Their contracts probably were written by lawyers with the specific intent of allowing such future technology. You'll see people who naively signed such contracts sue in court and lose. They will turn to their Congressmen, who will pass a law b
Re:I don't know if you are serious or ironic (Score:1)
She essentially signed away all rights for a bit in the Disney cartoon, "Lady and the Tramp," thinking that meant film rights. Then videotape came along... She sued, but I don't remember the outcome.
$2000 per second... (Score:2)
Did I read that right? So if we want to get rid of the real Tom Cruise and only use a virtual Tom for, say, 30 minutes of a film, that will run us... $2000 * 60 sec * 30 mins = $3.6 million
Re:$2000 per second... (Score:3, Insightful)
Given that the top stars regualarly charge $20million for a movie, that actually is a bargain.
The challenge, though, would be to get your virtual actor to that star status (so much harder without the chat shows and celebrity magazine stories about who he might marry).
Re:$2000 per second... (Score:2)
Re:$2000 per second... (Score:2, Interesting)
Next year it will be $1000/second. The year after, even less. In 5-10 years, it will be possible to do it on a $2000 desktop in near realtime.
You just have to look at how quickly morphing technology went from top blockbusters only (Terminator 2) to TV commercials, to something that can be done at home right now.
Re:$2000 per second... (Score:2, Funny)
The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:5, Interesting)
Suspect that someone is a terrorist, but have no evidence at all to support your allegations. - No problem, just whip up a photo-realistic animation of them attending a local bomb-making class. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:1)
Not so far fetched after all.
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:2)
Actually it was the other way around... and he ended up impaled
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:1)
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:1)
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:2)
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:2)
Yeah yeah, we all saw Wag the Dog. So... do you remember how that movie ended? There'll always be somebody who wants to talk. Now you're involving a team of people who spend a great deal of time on the net.
Re:The tin-foil hatter in me is screaming (Score:3, Funny)
Who needs photo-realistic Games? (Score:1)
Re:Who needs photo-realistic Games? (Score:2)
Graphics are a component. Better graphics make a game better, but it can't be at the expense of other game components.
Heck I'd LOVE if we could get photo-realistic World of Warcraft for example.
Gruesome Advertisements! (Score:1)
Re:Gruesome Advertisements! (Score:1)
"ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S CORPSE REVIVED FOR NINETY SECONDS"
Create replicas of long-dead historical figures? (Score:4, Funny)
I don't think you want to witness this, judging by how the process is described in TFA:
First, an actor's face is coated in ordinary phosphorescent makeup like that worn by children at Halloween. The actors then conduct their performance in a studio surrounded by fluorescent lights and digital cameras.
Dig 'em up, cover 'em in phosphorescent makeup and dangle 'em in front of the camera?
Re:Create replicas of long-dead historical figures (Score:2)
AI (Score:4, Interesting)
Though I really do enjoy advances in the level of graphical detail that increasing sophistication in hardware and software bring, I feel we need better AI, not fancier graphics . If a game's AI was as big a selling point (and therefore had the same amount of money invested in developing technologies and software for it's advancement) as the graphical prowress of the hardware then I think Alyx in Half Life 2 would probably have gone sentient at this stage.
"I'm sorry Gordon, but your apparent lack of regard for your own safety means I don't want to get involved with you, i'm just afraid of getting hurt."
Re:AI (Score:2)
And the reviewers complained that characters 'forced' you along!
Neat (Score:1)
Re:Neat (Score:2)
bad news for films (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:bad news for films (Score:1)
Re:bad news for films (Score:2)
Yes, and just think how much worse EP 1 would have been without any acting.
They've been doing that for years (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:1)
Quote (Score:1)
- Last Action Hero
Other uses... (Score:1)
Ah, but the danger lies not in accusatory power... (Score:5, Insightful)
I guarantee that when this becomes mainstream (just as most CG geeks knew would happen years ago), that implicating a person of influence/wealth will become nearly impossible, as any time any damaging photo/video evidence pops up (oh, say, like photos of torture at the hands of the US government at Guantanamo or a worse and nameless fascimile) the powerful will declare that it's been manufactured by the opposing side.
Re:Ah, but the danger lies not in accusatory power (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Ah, but the danger lies not in accusatory power (Score:2)
There is no reason a decent hi-res multi-angle view of someone could not do the same thing, given enough refinement to the software and processing horsepower.
Re: (Score:2)
Awesome (Score:1, Funny)
Uncanny Valley, anyone? (Score:1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley [wikipedia.org]
"The Uncanny Valley is the region of negative emotional response for robots that seem 'almost human'. Movement amplifies the emotional response."
Long Dead Characters (Score:2, Funny)
I'm skeptical (Score:3, Insightful)
Take Spiderman for example - I find those swinging sequences to look so horribly fake and robotic. The character model looks pasted-on because the light doesn't strike his body as it should and he isn't as softened by the camera as other objects, and the body motion appears jerky and forced.
So we'll see what the next gen has in store for us, but I have a feeling it will impress us only the first time we see it in a theatre. Jurassic park looked amazing that first time, but in subsequent viewings anyone can easily tell the difference between CGI and a model.
I love video games but I hate movies full of computer effects. Practical effects like those in Sam Raimi's movies are still the only way to go in my books!
Re:I'm skeptical (Score:1, Informative)
But I do agree that I like his "practical effects" and overall style.
Re:I'm skeptical (Score:2)
I TOTALLY forgot that!! Sam, how could you??
how else would Bruce Campell have gotten a cameo?
And Bruce in an A film? Is it -30 in hell? I missed his cameo - who did he play? Bruce RULES!!
Re:I'm skeptical (Score:1)
Re:I'm skeptical (Score:2)
I'll watch the first movie again just for his cameo but I don't care to see any of the sequels, even for Ash.
Re:I'm skeptical (Score:2)
The slashdot comment is misleading. (Score:4, Informative)
In order to make fully digital actors, there are several problems to be solved:
1) animation that follows real life physics. Although digital animation has made great steps, the human motion can not be fully synthesized yet in a way that it totally fools the eye.
2) realistic voice synthesis. Computers still can not make realistic synthetic voice.
3) putting emotion into the above. In some day truly believable synthetic animation and voice will be achieved using only digital techniques. But what about the emotions? humans can do many emotions at the same time, all with subtle expressions, and using their face and voice in various subtle manners.
I would love to have truly believable synthespians. It would allow my favorite series to keep going on for ever. For example, there would be no problem doing a new Star Trek movie with Kirk and Spock (many fans have disagreed with the new movie due to the new actors that will be playing Kirk and Spock). But I just don't see it in the near future.
Re:The slashdot comment is misleading. (Score:2)
Actually, I think the background article is misleading. Seems like Perlman & Co tried to explain what they were working on an
Re:The slashdot comment is misleading. (Score:2)
Considering the amount of botox in the average Holywood actor's face, I'd wager a computer simulation won't have much trouble with facial expressions... Or the lack thereof.
inconceivable! (Score:2, Funny)
Celebrity culture (Score:1, Insightful)
This can be used for evil/ (Score:3, Funny)
Games? Siggraph. (Score:2)
This is the kind thing that I'm missisng at siggraph this year.
The basics was at SIGGRAPH back in the 90's (Score:2)
"create exact replicas of long-dead historical" (Score:2)
Or kidnap and make replicas of living historical figures. Bwa ha ha.
Are you kidding? This will destroy politics. (Score:1)
Return to Human Purity (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Return to Human Purity (Score:2)
No idea how the general movie going public feels about it, but for me the actor is pretty damn unimportant to a movie, its the action, story and the characters in the movie that matters. The actor simply happens to be the person that plays the character, but I don't really care about him any more then I do care about the person that does the lig
Will It's lighting fit in a composited shot ? (Score:2)
How does the new virtual human data, respond to lighting adjustments? Can you alter the lighting? Add key lights? Add fill lights? Move them around etc?
How about the simulation of the properties of materials? The human skin is quite difficult to get looking real, and it doesnt look like this process would be able to simulate any of teh real properties of skin and how it reacts to lighting. How about the metalic surfaces in buttons or jewelry? How about shado
Re:Rick Deckard (Score:2)
-Eric