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Where to Advertise for Open Source Job Openings?

Cliff posted more than 7 years ago | from the plugged-into-the-network dept.

82

OS Jobs asks: "The startup I work at is looking for an IT maven to design and run a large cluster (1000s) of Linux machines. We are fully plugged into the open source philosophy and would like to build this cluster using only open source tools. We have advertised at most of the regular places including Monster, various LUGs, and so forth. In response to our ads we see people with industrial experience who know every proprietary product in existence, but almost none who are steeped in open source development. So my question to the Slashdot community is: Where should open-source conscious employers advertise their open-source friendly jobs?"

cancel ×

82 comments

On slashdot (4, Funny)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822241)

You've already done it. Post an email address and await the deluge.

Re:On slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822448)

Ah, still keeping up the meme that any tech job will be snapped at by hordes of desparate, well-qualified nerds. Scaring away competition must be half of your job search. I doubt there will be a deluge from this posting.

Re:On slashdot (3, Informative)

byolinux (535260) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823225)

If the job is related to free software [fsf.org] , we'd be happy to post it [fsf.org] .

I have just the thing for you (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822254)

Where should open-source conscious employers advertise their open-source friendly jobs?

Just call the open-source turnip truck with the nice men in white coats to take you to the open-source funny farm where you can be with other fellow open-source nutcakes and talk all matter of open-source nuttiness. And if they ever cure you, you can rejoin the real world.

Re:I have just the thing for you (0, Troll)

headkase (533448) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822427)

Bill? Is that you?!?

Re:I have just the thing for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15823761)

Clearly you were a resident of said farm. How did you escape?

Wouldn't you like to go back? Out here in the real world people like to earn a living, to feed their families and dumb stuff like that. Such realities that cause you headkases such endless mental anguish. It's a much happier time, on the farm, where you can hallucinate with others of your kind (hmm, not unlike here on Slashdot) and pretend your quaint little cult is taking over the world.

Re:I have just the thing for you (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 7 years ago | (#15829502)

Actually, Open Source could save [slashdot.org] the US government tons of money a year if they established a open software core of engineers for themselves. Then there is additional billions of savings for us citizens who could also use said software.

I think you know the answer... (5, Informative)

kebes (861706) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822275)

I suspect that the poster's question will become answered when he receives many email regarding this job opportunity.

Basically a great place to advertise the job is Slashdot! Of course, this is not really a sustainable strategy (not every OSS job offer will merit a Slashdot story)...

You should consider clicking on the "Jobs" link on the OSTG bar that is at the top of Slashdot. I suspect that many OSS-savvy Slashdot readers use that when looking for jobs, so getting the offer listed there (it appears to link to Yahoo! HotJobs) would probably be a good idea.

Re:I think you know the answer... (5, Insightful)

joe_bruin (266648) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822517)

If the people who run Slashdot had any brains, they'd have had a real Technology Jobs section, not a halfassed partnership with Hotjobs. I mean, they're running the biggest geek site on the planet, where many of these people spend their down time. If they had posted a real job section, they could take over that market (particularly in the OSS section). Imagine a site where people can post comments about the jobs listed, and potentially communicate that way with the employer for all to read (hey, there's something that other job sites just don't do), where I can specify that I want a job doing C but not C++ (no other site has the geek focus that you can find here), and where, if I'm looking for a job, I can have job results come up in between my other Slashdot stories (that I read every day anyway).

And employers would *pay* to post jobs. Imagine having your position seen by all system admins worldwide that checked a box that they want to see sysadmin jobs on their Slashdot homepage? The response would be huge. Of course, far be it from OSTG from doing something that could make them money.

Re:I think you know the answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15824118)

> If they had posted a real job section, they could take over that market

Sure. But, then said job seekers might find something satisifying and stop trolling here.

Just so you know, I speak from experience.....

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824281)

I wish there was a job site where users could comment on the job, even after the job was filled, giving rankings to the employers and interview process. You could even have a tagging system to tag jobs as contract, full time, new grad,or only accepts resumes in word format. I think that many of the job websites out there do a really poor job for the people trying to find the job. A site where the people searching could categorize the stuff themselves would really help to get the stuff organized better. Granted, you'd still have people trying to move the good jobs under cobol so they are the only ones applying, but I think those kinds of things could be worked out.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824341)

Man that's a great idea. Sort of like one of those "rate your professor" or "rate your school" deals some sites have for colleges. Anonymity would be the key though. If the employer can find out who you are, no one is going to be honest. That could be legally tricky when you get into NDA's (non-disclosure agreements) though. Ten years ago, I would have said that this wasn't a problem (since presumably you couldn't sign your free speech rights with a lousy form). But today, "free speech" doesn't exactly carry much weight.

-Eric

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824566)

I don't think NDA's would come into it very much. Unless you are giving out technical information about what the company is doing, I fail to see where the problem would be. I don't think they can stop you from telling your friends about how much your job sucks, they probably can't stop you from telling the whole world either. Making it anonymous would be very important, as you wouldn't want to lose your job by giving your company bad ratings. Even if your job is satisfactory, I could see people losing jobs for giving their employer a less than stellar rating.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825301)

So how do you avoid the problem of employers astroturfing?

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#15828975)

Same way you avoid the problem of crappy employees who spend all day fucking off from posting negative reviews.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 7 years ago | (#15826726)

The problem is that a company that tolerated negative comments from present and former employees would quickly find themselves in a very bad situation.

First off, why would anyone post something positive? That means almost everything is going to be negative. Mostly inaccurate, but with a grain of truth to it.

Then, if you knew about such a message board and looked at it, would you want to go and find out if all of the terrible things you were reading were accurate? Or, would you just pass it on by as not being worth the effort? I suspect the latter would be almost exclusively the case.

This means that the potential candidates for any job of non-stellar proportions end up being only the people that are ignorant of such a service. If the service is popular, even wildly so, companies about whom comments are made are never going to be able to hire anyone.

At that point it is simply a question of penetrating whatever anonymity the service has. Because failing to sue the posters and threaten everyone else means the company goes under. Probably all because of lies, distortions and half-truths.

You might want to think that "Well, if they aren't perfect then they deserve it." Don't go there. Every job has people that think it is the most wonderful thing on the face of the earth and people that think they would rather clean toliets for a living. You are talking about something that has the potential to affect the lives of a large number of people and some of them might not like their employer going out of business.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#15828124)

Well, I don't think all the comments would be bad. Head over to Rate My Professors [ratemyprofessors.com] if you want to see this kind of think in action. There's plenty of profs who get good ratings. There's also some professors I consider pretty terrible who got a few good ratings. Different people like different things. And there's not much an employer could do to stop ex-employees from posting. There isn't much they could do to stop a current employee from posting. If they kept no data about who posted, then they wouldn't have anything for employers to find out who did the postings. I could see a lot of problems happening with companies posting for themselves to get the ratings up, or posting against rival companies to get the ratings down. I think that this would be the biggest problem to overcome, and not the fact that people would only vote against companies they hated, or not vote at all because they are afraid of retaliation.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824829)

I'm working on this very thing, geared primarily toward computer wonks like ourselves.

E-mail me if you're interested in getting in on the beta testing/bulletproofing.

-Ed

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

baldass_newbie (136609) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825273)

You mean like the Vault [thevault.com] ?

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825341)

Well, I was thinking of a site that had more than a couple of company listings for my entire state.

-Eric

Re:I think you know the answer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15824535)

That'd be scary because you could get modded down for trolling at your job! No more taking people's lunch from the fridge...

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

toad3k (882007) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824562)

I wish slashdot had a jobs section too. I'd be looking through it now.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

Crayon Kid (700279) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824750)

I wish Slashdot offered payed moderator positions.

Re:I think you know the answer... (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822926)

I'd apply in a heartbeat, except that while I live and breath open source, I don't live and breath open source clustering. Also, I'm probably not qualified (only 4-6 years professional experience, which sounds good until you read a birthdate in 1987), and there's a female to consider. Is the poster, by any chance, somewhere in Pennsylvania?

By the way, run Google searches also. My resume is on a website (run entirely with open-source tools), and NOT on Monster, as their "quick and easy post-your-resume'o'matic" doesn't work for me. It has required questions I don't want on my resume, and doesn't have much room for the stuff I do want.

Still, Slashdot knows my email, shown without obfuscation, so if anyone reading this wants to give me a job, feel free. You can check out my resume [slaphack.com] , although it's admittedly cruel to people not running Firefox. I really need to tweak it to recognize Safari, Konquerer, OmniWeb, and all the other good browsers. The website may also be a bit slow (it's sitting next to me, and I'm downloading Ubuntu...)

WebDevs for FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822288)

CSS Beauty [cssbeauty.com]

Not particularly relevant to your case, admittedly, but it's one of the few places I check regularly ...

Scroll to the bottom of the page.

fristpsot?

Advertising for Perl Jobs is simple (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822297)

jobs.perl.org [perl.org] is absolutely the first stop for the Perl subset of open source hiring, both for programmer types and sysadmin types.

Re:Advertising for Perl Jobs is simple (1)

publius_ovidius (870895) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823641)

Amen! I've found plenty of great people through that and I, in turn, have picked up great jobs through it. Fortunately the quality of jobs listed there is often very high and Perl programmers who really have a clue pay attention to that site, even when they're not looking for work. It's a great way to spot trends.

Craigslist (1, Informative)

Duhavid (677874) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822320)

Craigslist

Try your local LUG (4, Informative)

Yonder Way (603108) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822323)

Most local Linux User Groups welcome local companies that want to hire Linux talent. One of the most effective ways at our local LUG is to buy pizza for the meeting, and then you've got a captive audience of around 100 talented Linux geeks listening to you talk about your company for a few minutes and giving you a great opportunity to fish for resumes. And if you want to go completely cheap, they will usually let you advertise local Linux jobs on their general discussion mailing lists.

Re:Try your local LUG (1)

OhHellWithIt (756826) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824342)

You may also find local chapters of special interest groups, like Perlmongers. I've generally been happy to see job postings from real employers on the lists I subscribe to. What I can't abide, though, is postings that don't give any information about the particulars of the job, or when the sender is simply looking to collect resumes to pad his portfolio of "talent".

Where? (2, Interesting)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822335)

How about in your .sig for starters?

Re:Where? (4, Funny)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822575)


How about in your .sig for starters?
--
Sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things that money can buy.


so... what are the qualifications you're looking for? ;)

Re:Where? (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823234)

Now that was funny! I've been pwned!

Almost doesn't seem to matter (2, Funny)

carpeweb (949895) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822348)

OK, I'll risk negative karma by going tangentially off-topic.

A start-up with 1000s of machines?

Regardless of where you advertise (this post was a decent start, but check out the other OSTG sites; plus, Google linux jobs for lots of other sites), make sure you screen every candidate to see which one has the best current job. Before you hire that candidate, make sure you have a shot at filling that vacant position. In other words, start looking for where you're going to land when this one crashes. Also, get an ebay account so that you can dump all the Herman Miller chairs and foosball tables when that's all you have left. And party like it's 1999.

You could try.. (4, Funny)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822357)

http://vger.kernel.org/ [kernel.org]

You'd have to post it as a lament though.

Man, I wish I could find some programmers as good as you guys for my positions starting at $95k with full medical and dental. It's amazing how many people turn down our 401k and stock option program, especially with the incredible opportunities for advancement.

Anyway, you make a good point about user mode autodetect with the current situation, although I still think in-kernel autodetect should be the goal.

You could try...if you are polite and don't spam (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823401)

First, pick the list that matches the desired job skills closest. I suspect you want some people who can operate that 1000+ machine environment, so http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-admin [kernel.org] might be the place to go.

Second, make it clear what your post is about, so people who are NOT looking for a job can simply ignore it. Use a topic like "Job Offer: Startup looking for Linux admins".

University ? (2, Informative)

dYnkYn (992384) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822380)

You can submit some job opportunites on the dedicated tool (here named Job Bourse) of most of universities having an IT department. For example:

Craigslist ? (1)

Tsiangkun (746511) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822383)

I know I can't be the only one that searches through craigslist for everything.

You know, myspace has a lot of traffic too now that I think about it.

Scamslist ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822456)

"I know I can't be the only one that searches through craigslist for everything."

The problem with craigslist is that it's been taken over by "sales and marketing", "telemarketing", "home based scams", "make money quick" jobs. And the filtering mechanism is inadequate.

Re:Craigslist ? (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822719)

Advertising on myspace will just get you post-ironic goths and hipsters. Is that what you really want? Really?

Re:Craigslist ? (2, Insightful)

vinsanity1 (978226) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823445)

i'd agree myspace gets a lot of traffic, but my guess is about 60% of it is girls in their early teens, and about 30% is goths.
probably not a very good place to advertise employment at all, let alone this particular job.

Re:Craigslist ? (1)

flooey (695860) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825041)

i'd agree myspace gets a lot of traffic, but my guess is about 60% of it is girls in their early teens, and about 30% is goths.

Geez, way to generalize, buddy.

Girls in their late teens have got to make up at least 20%.

Dice.com (1)

torqer (538711) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822408)

Well, as you're asking on slashdot, there just happens to be these lovely red banner ads. They all seem to mention "Dice." So I'd give dice.com a looksee. But, maybe give Slashdot some revenue, and click thru the advert.

Dice has turned into a free-for-all (2, Interesting)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823405)

I no longer work in the IT industry, however, I still have my resume up on dice.com. I still get a lot of inquiries (10-15 a week), but NONE are from direct hire employers. They are all recruiters. A nd if you look at the actual job descriptions, all these different recruiters are vying to fill the same position.

Nevermind the fact that these recruiters routinely disregard location and travel preference.

It comes down to recruiters searching on hot keywords (such as linux clusters), and mass-emailing to all possible matches.

But that's the sign of the best job board around (1)

btarval (874919) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824968)

Dice is simply the best. Well, THE best is a recruiter who supplies you with the royalty treatment, but you have to work a tad for that.

Seriously, though, you DO realize that what you are complaining about is the sign of a healthy, free market job board? Of course you get spammed. How exactly are you going to have a large job board and not get spammed? The best you can do is with a Social Network approach, but even that can be rigged.

I personally find the spam of use - it lets me know what agents to avoid. That is key. There are a LOT of sleezy agents/recruiters out there, and you really want to avoid the bad ones.

Honestly, your gripe sounds like someone who has just gone to a bazaar for the first time, and was expecting to find a supermarket.

I don't use anything else other than Dice, but then, I do contracting. None of the other boards are set up for effective use by contractors; they don't care, and it shows. Also, I've been seeing more direct contacts there, as some companies are slowly finding out that they can do what recruiters do, and save a bunch of money.

Re:Dice.com (1)

jibjibjib (889679) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823518)

NOOOOOOOOO! You told people to click the ads! Google will cancel our AdSense account! The end is nigh!!!

Development mailing list (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822472)

The development mailing list for the project(s) you plan on using. I guess, in your case, that would MPI or something Beowulf-related.

Have you thought about directly approaching some of the brilliant developpers working on these projects, anyway ? A job opportunity does not have to be advertised if you can fill it by networking inside the community.

USENIX / SAGE / LOPSA (4, Informative)

jsellens (760992) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822487)

I might guess that most USENIX [usenix.org] , SAGE [sage.org] and LOPSA [lopsa.org] members are well versed in open source tools.

You could try the respective jobs boards:

What is the purpose of the cluster? (2, Insightful)

Bender0x7D1 (536254) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822522)

Without knowing more about the purpose of the cluster, it is a hard question to answer. The best place to post/look/advertise probably isn't one of the one-stop, post all your job sites. Try to determine what skillset is specifically required for your job and start looking at related sites.

Also, you might want to reconsider what you are looking for. If you really want a single "IT maven" to design and run the cluster, you are setting yourself up for failure. With that many machines, just swapping out failed hardware approaches a full-time job, so your maven better have a lot of good help.

How solid is the business plan? (3, Insightful)

rubinson (207525) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822573)

Something sounds a bit off here. You say that your company is "fully plugged into the open source philosophy," yet nobody is active or well known enough in your local Unix/development communities to know where to find help? Why do you want "to build this cluster using only open source tools" anyway? How do you know that a proprietary solution wouldn't be more cost effective? Even if you're committed to using free software tools for moral reasons (something that I'm not opposed to), what's the cost/benefit versus proprietary solutions?

I wish I knew. . . (1)

The_Dougster (308194) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822798)

. . . because then I would know where to post my resume, lol. Here's a snippet from my resume that has been on PA Careerlink for about 5 years, with never a single job offer.
I can deploy advanced office software suites on Linux systems and can then lock down the systems down to make highly secure and robust workstations. I have experience working on shared projects using CVS and Subversion release systems. I can write functional code using most of the standard Linux and Unix development tools. I can also write cross platform applications which work equally well on Linux, MacOS, and Windows systems using runtime engines like Java and Python.
So I'm currently working for minimum wage at a call center selling discount cigarettes on the internet, on food stamps, my house is in foreclosure, and I have about $100k in student loan debt. I'm about ready to skip the country and change my name.

Re:I wish I knew. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15822885)

Dear Doug,
It's nice that you are 100% buzzword compliant, however we are looking for individuals that a) care enough to apply for jobs rather than making us seek out their resume on obscure websites, and b) list actual skills and accomplishments rather than vague statements like "I can write functional code with development tools" and "I can lock down systems down".

Signed,
Anonymous Coward IT Manager

PS: Hint - you have to stand out, but not look absured doing so.

Re:I wish I knew. . . (1)

The_Dougster (308194) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823269)

Dear Doug,

It's nice that you are 100% buzzword compliant, however we are looking for individuals that a) care enough to apply for jobs rather than making us seek out their resume on obscure websites, and b) list actual skills and accomplishments rather than vague statements like "I can write functional code with development tools" and "I can lock down systems down".

Signed,
Anonymous Coward IT Manager

PS: Hint - you have to stand out, but not look absured doing so

ROFL! If I listed actual skills and accomplishments, that snippet would be like 10 pages long and full of so many computer acronyms it would be completely unreadable!

Re:I wish I knew. . . (1)

hcob$ (766699) | more than 7 years ago | (#15826658)

and your point? Resumes are about selling yourself to someone who won't see you face to face to form an impression. Clear, concise and meaningful resume (about 2 pages MAX) does more than writing the Tome of The Dougster.

your problems (3, Insightful)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15822955)

First, you used PA Careerlink.

Second, you left your resume sitting there. You need to direct it toward suitable matches.

Third, you OWN A HOME without having the finances to back it up. Yeah, it's a better deal if you can sit there for many years and pay the higher rates, but you're in no shape for either. Don't bother unless there are plenty of good-paying jobs for you within about a 7-mile radius.

Fourth, it appears you don't understand the concept of keywords. (though I only see a part of your resume) Your resume is wordy, yet lacking. Most of us take "functional code" to mean either that your code barely runs or that you use screwball academic languages like Haskell and Scheme. CVS is a revision control system, not a release system. You claim "cross platform", but never mention "portable" or "porting".

Fifth... you live in PA. You probably need to move. Find some place cheap that is near a good tech area. Example: Lowell, MA.

Re:your problems (1)

The_Dougster (308194) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823312)

You're right! Actually I am moving (obviously). However I'm pursuing a mechanical engineering job rather than a programmer job at the moment. I never said I was a programmer, just that I had that kind of stuff on my resume for the last 5 years on a statewide job board and nobody ever seemed to notice it or ever called me about a potential job.

I have some excellent prospects lined up in the near future, so not to worry about my grumping. I have run everything into the ground by plan to get my wife through college without having to make her transfer schools. I gotta tell ya though, working in a call center, wow ... talk about overworked, unappreciated, and underpaid!

My resume lacks keywords mostly by design I suppose. I used to have a list of languages and acronyms on it, but over the years I have distilled it down to where they can ask me about the particulars. Really I can use any programming language available to get the job done, so I try not to list anything in particular.

Nitpicking about whether CVS is a release system or a revision control system is pretty silly. If an employer is using CVS to develop, then thats what they want. I should eliminate CVS, Subversion, Java, and Python from that section actually and then I would be buzzword-free . . . Thanks for the insight!

Re:your problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15823871)

As an employer at a small software company, I tell you I skim and search resumes fast. With 100 coming in for a single position, and trying to make a fast decision - advertise-to-startdate in 4 weeks, I try to filter fast, and select (relatively) slowly (deliberately).

Keywords (buzzwords) are critical. One hundred resumes sitting in an Outlook folder - search for "ASP". Ok, I have a list whittled down. Search for "SQL"... whittled down further. Let's get it down to eight to ten and study them in detail, and pick out a few to speak with. If I see someone good, make them a competitive offer and get them on-board. No time for screwing around.

I do glance at every resume, but many only merit a glance. If it doesn't say the few things I happen to be looking for, I don't have time to read volumnous paragraphs to find the nugget of worthwhile info. Sorry. It may be my loss, but I value communication, and if this candidate can't communicate to me, their target audience, then they won't be able to function in a developer job which will require team communication and potentially customer communication.

I can't over-stress the importance of keywords. Especially in this day of automated searches!

Your resume is a sales brochure. Pull out the Sunday paper (not the classifieds, but the regular news pages and ads), and glance through it *rapidly*. Then tell me what ads you remember. There were probably a thousand or more ads there - which ones caught your attention? Why only less than one percent? Use that same questioning to ask yourself what can you do to make your resume stand out. (Hint, it's NOT writing long paragraphs. It's mentioning benefits in a concise, eye-catching manner.)

Personally, I cannot imagine how a talented, well-rounded developer can be going hungry in this job market (not that I don't empathize with you). Communication is a huge part of software development, and some of the resumes that I see demonstrate a true inability to communicate!

Re:your problems (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825346)

The ones with "ASP" are disqualified, right?

Well, I guess "Replaced legacy ASP system" would need to be rated highly.

Re:your problems (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825379)

She'll leave you.

Better would have been to have her drop out. Mine did. I now have 5 kids, hot meals, clean clothes...

You don't get the hot meals and clean clothes if she has her own career. Well, you might get them, but that's unfair and she WILL notice that she's doing twice as much work as you are. Splitting the chores is impossible because you WILL NOT have the same standards. What is clean to you may not be clean to her, so she ends up doing all the cleaning and gets resentful because you agreed to do half. Besides, even if you do split the work successfully and against all odds, doing 1.5 jobs each (career + half the housework) is a lot harder than doing 1 job each.

Re:your problems (1)

kchrist (938224) | more than 7 years ago | (#15827270)

Well, not everyone wants to push their significant others into indentured servitude. A better approach would be to drop the sexist stereotypes and working things out like equals. Believe it or not, men are capable of cooking, cleaning, and doing their own laundry.

(oh, and hope that she doesn't read your bitter whining on slashdot)

Re:your problems (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15828899)

Actually, my wife (then girlfriend) volunteered after spending lots of time visiting a few of her friends who are happy stay-at-home moms. I'd never push someone into that; I'd try my best to avoid them in the first place. I've seen enough fractured families to see how it goes.

Both are capable.

You could swap roles. That can work, though you'll have difficulty breastfeeding. It's not a given that the lady has to be the homemaker, though most people find this to be more natural. In two out of three cases I'm familiar with, the lady showed quite some resentment. I don't think the males were all that happy either, to put it mildly.

Split things evenly, and you won't need each other. If you don't need each other...

There is little free time with only two tasks (career+home) for two people. You're going for three tasks (career*2+home) without adding a third person. That's more work per person.

Free time is time to spend together or just relaxing. Free time means less stress.

You get higher taxes, higher costs for commuting, higher costs for ready-made foods, and maybe you even pay to dump some kids in a daycare center staffed by the not-so-bright.

The only time you'll see her you'll both be tired, stressed, and busy with housework.

Money doesn't make up for the lost time.

BTW, it's really gross that you use the words "indentured servitude". If anyone is the indentured servant, it's the person who has to earn the money. It is proper to value and respect both roles. If you demean the homemaker role, it's little wonder that neither of you wants to take on that role. Somebody has to do it though. You might as well show some appreciation for the person who does it -- and it WILL be one person, with plenty of fighting if that's not the expectation, because you won't have the exact same standards as she does.

Re:your problems (1)

kchrist (938224) | more than 7 years ago | (#15828943)

Speak for yourself. My SO and I work things out just fine, and we both work full-time. Our house is clean, we do our laundry regularly, and we eat healthy, home cooked meals, not frozen or prepackaged garbage.

It's not difficult if both people are sane and reasonable (and if your SO isn't, why is she your SO?).

Re:your problems (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15829311)

I'm sure it's not difficult right now. Only the truly insane can't keep a marriage together for a few years at least. Most people manage to keep it happy for a few years, then fairly decent for a few more.

See if you last a decade.

Supposing you do, see how you feel about the work/leisure split after 4 or 5 decades.

I never heard anybody old say "I wish I'd spent less time with my family." Think you'll say that?

One of the saddest things I ever saw was a coworker receiving his kids for the weekend.

BTW, separate anything (cars, bank accounts, secrets, etc.) makes a split even more likely. The easier it is to split, the less you have to make you reconsider.

Jesus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15823000)

Man, you want "alternative" methods to finding OSS coders? The mainsteam isn't good enough? Go ask Al Quada or some fucking cult. That's the way you make it seem... as if normal guys who can code just simply aren't good enough unless they're completely into your "way of being".
 
Fucking fundamentalist bullshit it sounds like.

Just missed it (1)

Phroggy (441) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823056)

The O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON) is a good place to meet open source types. If you have money, buy a booth in the exhibit hall; if not, show up and tack your info up on the job board (they set up a buletin board outside the exhibit hall for this purpose). O'Reilly also has an opt-in e-mailing list for attendees.

But you just missed it.

Obligatory Joel reference (0)

Schraegstrichpunkt (931443) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823236)

Keep in mind that the best talent already has jobs [joelonsoftware.com] .

Re:Obligatory Joel reference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15823929)

Ah yes, Joel, the developer-wannabe, turned blogger.

People who follow his readings are like Dvorak's followers: they read tales from someone who is clueless in practice, but can talk a good story.

Re:Obligatory Joel reference (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825290)

Interesting, but I thought "deadwood" was the name for people who stayed at the same company forever.

I'm just kidding, but it's funny that Joel really can't define the qualities of "the best", but he knows they always have work.

To Reverse The Question (1)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823283)

While I can't answer the posters question, I really hope that someone can give a good answer to this for another reason. I'm a recent graduate, and while I have some experience working on Windows systems, and with Microsoft technology, I'm very interested in finding a development job working on Linux and with the various open source development tools.
I've gone through most of the "regular" channels in searching for a job (e.g. Monster, Dice, Hotjobs, Career Builder, my school's Career Services department), and while there are a few open source jobs, it seems like the vast majority of jobs are VB.NET, ASP.NET or C# working on Windows. While I could certainly do that, and I have applied for a few of these jobs, I went into programming because I wanted to do something I love for a living. I don't hate working in Windows, but I don't love it (Although .NET is much less painful than working with MFC, I still don't enjoy it like I do developing under Linux). It would be great to have a place where I could find job listings working with F/OSS software.

We have 130,000 developers each month.. (1)

Peter Cooper (660482) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823773)

to Code Snippets. [bigbold.com] :) Blatant ad, I know.

Linux Questions (1)

Abstract (12510) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823791)

I know Linux Questions [linuxquestions.org] just started out with an job market place.
BTW: I haven't used it myself.

I know in Dallas/Fort Worth... (1)

WgT2 (591074) | more than 7 years ago | (#15823976)

The Linux job market is hot here in the Metroplex (Dallas/Fort Worth). When ever I want a new job I will just post to Monster.com and the opportunities will contact me. So, I guess they were searching for keywords as found in my resume.

My point is: this may be your last resort (whereas pray should have been your first resort :) ) since what you are looking for seems to be in short supply for the near term.

Does OSS development require special skills? (2, Insightful)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824520)

"In response to our ads we see people with industrial experience who know every proprietary product in existence, but almost none who are steeped in open source development"

It sounds like you're letting your philosphy interfere with your business goals. What specific skills do you believe are unique to Open Source development that people with proprietary product experience lack?

It seems to me that Open Source is more of a licensing philosphy than a development methodology. Are you developing using a waterfall, CMM, XP, Agile or some other approach? For example if you use XP, proprietary developers who have used it will probably be a better match than open source developers who haven't.

Re:Does OSS development require special skills? (1)

eipipuz (631495) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825508)

Just a quick correction. CMM isn't a development methodology, just like ISO9000... CMM is a way to ensure processes, but it's up to you which ones. And maybe I'm wrong but isn't Agile a part of XP philosophy?

Maybe he's just worried that those guys don't know CVS, Eclipse framework and so on. I would agree wit you that knowing how to use tools is less important than knowing how to debug deadlocks (which is philosophy-agnostic).

Re:Does OSS development require special skills? (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 7 years ago | (#15827218)

"CMM isn't a development methodology, just like ISO9000... CMM is a way to ensure processes, but it's up to you which ones."

CMM doesn't address low-level details of software development the way XP does, but it still qualifies as a methodology IMHO. For example, to be certified an organization has to have adopted a company-wide software development process that every project follows. Requiring a single process for all projects is a methodological decision.

"And maybe I'm wrong but isn't Agile a part of XP philosophy?"

I think Agile is the more general term. I was a bit sloppy since I couldn't think of another Agile methodology besides XP. One guy said "Asking for "the difference between XP and Agile" sounds a bit like asking for the main differences between apples and fruit."

"Maybe he's just worried that those guys don't know CVS, Eclipse framework and so on."

Perhaps he could have been more specific. I would expect a lot OSS folks would know CVS (along with a lot of non-OSS folks). I could also imagine a lot of OSS folks have never used Eclipse (to say nothing of RCP).

Re:Does OSS development require special skills? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15827256)

It sounds like you're letting your philosphy interfere with your business goals. What specific skills do you believe are unique to Open Source development that people with proprietary product experience lack?

Mostly, ability to participate in an OSS community, communicate effectively with peers from the projects, getting informal support from these peers, etc. The dynamic of an OSS community is totally different from the relation you have with a traditionnal supplier or your workplace co-workers. The etiquette and customs take some time to learn, and newbie often fumble on them.

I would also dare say ressourcefulness. Building a solution on Open-Source is often a DIY endeavour, while commercial software tend toward turn-key solution. IME, sysadmins that have worked only with commercial applications tend to have problem thinking outside of the box. It's just a generalization, so your anecdotes are certainly worth as much as mine.

It seems to me that Open Source is more of a licensing philosphy than a development methodology.

Ho my. That just proved you don't have much experience with actual FOSS development from the inside.

Re:Does OSS development require special skills? (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 7 years ago | (#15827304)

"Ho my. That just proved you don't have much experience with actual FOSS development from the inside."

Well, you haven't identified anything in your post that uniquely applies to OSS (except the sysadmins part, I never worked at a company where they performed SW development).

"communicate effectively with peers from the projects, getting informal support from these peers"

People in the software industry have been communicating with their peers both inside and outside their companies for years. This isn't something that OSS movement invented.

this link (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | more than 7 years ago | (#15824861)

for open source company that just wants to use open source, usually means they wont be able to pay you either! ; )

Idealist (1)

prizog (42097) | more than 7 years ago | (#15825066)

I found my free software job on Idealist.

Look in the mirror (1)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 7 years ago | (#15826275)

Have a hot job, and no suitable applicants? You review your requirements and the screening process.

fast food outlet (1)

edittard (805475) | more than 7 years ago | (#15841186)

Try your local McDonald's. In the staffroom.
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