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125 comments

Translate Sign Language (5, Interesting)

neonprimetime (528653) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832881)

The researchers believe the system could have more practical applications in the future. They say it could be used to automatically translate sign language, for example

Yes, if this technology exists, and slips out into mainstream, they better put it into more practical uses than DDD.

Re:Translate Sign Language (5, Insightful)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832896)

Hey now, DDD has some practical use. A video game that actually involves burning calories is probably just what the US needs, and more of it. Though your original point is well taken.

TLF

Re:Translate Sign Language (3, Insightful)

diersing (679767) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833294)

Seriously, you think fat kids don't exercise because video games don't burn calories? If they didn't have video games they'd be playing board games, or reading, or eating, or sitting, or sleeping, or getting high, or making videos of themselves like they were in star wars, or watching star wars, or shooting people from highway overpasses, or drinking, or watching anime, or....

The point is, fat kids aren't fat because video games don't meet their daily allotment of exercise. Personal responsability and lack of parental teaching of personal responability is to blame. We live in a culture where nothing is ever our fault, not when I can take this pill to feel better. And since when is being fat justification for a handicap parking placard? Shouldn't we as a society force the obese to park as far away as possible?

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833605)

Oh god not again. Any time I hear the phrase "personal reponsibility" I want to punch people in the mouth. The fact is that people are lazy. This is not their fault. They were born that way. If they can find an easy way out, they'll take it. The key isn't to attempt force them to do something by taking away any systems that actively coerce them to do that thing. The key is to just let them live their lives with minimal effort at a guaranteed base quality of life. In other words, they shouldn't get rich off the system. But they shouldn't live in total poverty with otherwise avoidable health issues. I'm responsible for you. You're responsible for me. That's the way it works. Otherwise there's no reason for being. You have no purpose other than to take care of me and vice-versa. See?

The problem I've got with "personal reponsibility" is that the only thing you're doing is taking people who have little to offer (and therefore little to gain) and making them completely useless. If they're completely useless, they either die off or they take the path of least resistance (theft, getting incarcerated, etc...) to get as much as possible for as little effort required. I think it's better if you just give them something and let them go on their way until they die of natural causes.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833732)

The fact is that people are lazy. This is not their fault.

I'm just curious. What color is the sky in your world?

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

diersing (679767) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833824)

Would you also face the assault charge that comes with punching me (or anyone) in the mouth?, or would you blame some disorder, extenuating circumstances, or maybe temporary mental deficiency

Believe me I see better then most, my faith is strong and I do appreciate my role in the grander scheme of things. I'm kind and charitable to those in need, I'm active in my community with local outreach programs. I see people who have nothing busting their asses to make something of their lives. But since when did being lazy become a disease? People become lazy because they are allowed to be, because someone has always come along and excused them from being held accountable. Yesterday I saw two instances of people with handicap parking placards with no obvious physical ailment other then weight (one was outside a Dairy Queen).

The thing about taking care of each other is that we need to share in the work load, that's how it's suppose to work... but now that I've met you, will you help me? Will you do my share? I'm going to go play video games and eat snacks.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833985)

I'd help you if you needed it. Doesn't sound like you do though. You've got it all figured out, don't you? I tend to favor the underdogs anyway. The people who have less because they were dealt a bad hand in life. Those are the people most deserving. Believe me, I worked hard to get where I am but not as hard as my parents did. And that's because they were generous enough to make sacrifices for me. I'm now doing the same for my child. But I don't think that people who are naturally born with very little desire to do anything can be held accountable for their actions. Because they lack any natural drive for anything other than pleasure is not their fault. In many cases it can be blamed on their parents actions.

I've got a friend in just that boat. He was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and it's resulted in his being an alcoholic with no chance of recovery. He's resistant to all programs to help him recover. He's been in so many of them he knows how to fake his way through. It all goes back to the fact that his mom drank through her pregnancy. So can he actually be blamed for being in his 30s and not having finished college, not having any usable skills and not wanting to ever leave his apartment other than to buy cigarettes and beer. Hell he doesn't even leave his apartment to buy food. He goes to a local website that allows him to have meals delivered to his apartment. He has no job. Once his parents die (and the money supply they provide dies with them) I expect him to die shortly after. To him death is far more preferrable to work. Do you honestly think that letting him die is a good thing?

As far as the threat to punch someone in the mouth for saying that. No, in reality I wouldn't do that. I'm not stupid. But, I do think that people who believ in the concept of personal responsiblity deserve to get punched in the mouth repeatedly until they get some sense of compassion. I'm not the sort of person who gets pleasure (which a lot of the personal responsibility crowd seem to) or is indifferent to someone else suffering. When I see a homeless person on the street I feel sorry for the guy and wonder what hardships put him there. I've given away my lunch to homeless people whether they've wanted it or not. It's my fault that those people are homeless in some indirect way and I want to do something to help them. Working at the local shelters and devoting time to charities isn't enough. The personal responsibility crowd seems to lack any compassion at all for the situations of others and only focus on their own well being. I see that as corrupt and immoral. But hey... I was raised as a Christian who took the right parts of the teachings to heart. And even though I don't go to church I am certainly living a life more like Christ than any idiot who goes to church every Sunday.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834432)

I've got a friend in just that boat. He was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and it's resulted in his being an alcoholic with no chance of recovery.

You are aware that fetal alcohol syndrome is a suite of birth defects, right? Alcoholism isn't a birth defect, it's a medical condition caused by the frequent and excessive consumption of alcohol. Consumption. Which means some complete asshole gave this friend of yours a bottle of booze. It's not like he came out of his mother's womb with one hand clutching a half of Jack Daniel's; someone put that bottle in his hands. And given that we don't know how severe his case of fetal alcohol syndrome is, we can't really say whether or not he possessed the faculty to understand the decision being made.

It's my fault that those people are homeless in some indirect way and I want to do something to help them.

I don't really know what to say to this. I just feel very sorry for you, that you would live your life in repentance for crimes you never committed. It seems a sad way to live.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

diersing (679767) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834787)

I ring my hands of you and your miopic state where my posting on "Full Body Dance Dance Revolution" somehow being helpful to fat American kids is an indictment of my lack of social responsability.

Where in the country are you? If you're in my neck of the woods I'll demostrate by taking you to the mission I volunteer at and then the rich suburbs where the kids are too lazy and spoiled to peddle their own bikes - damn motorized scooters!

Are you trolling, or just an idiot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833849)

You might think it is better to give lazy, irresponsible people hand-outs, but I on the other hand am not as interested in being taken advantage of as you seem to be.

Yes, we do need to help people in need, but we also need to make sure that people are responsible, to both themselves as well as to the rest of society. The first thing everyone has to do is become responsible for themselves. After that, they can use whatever energy and time they have left being partly responsible for others and giving them a hand.

If we were to instead do what you suggest, where I'm responsible for you and you're responsible for me, we wouldn't have a healthy society, we'd have a codependency disorder. In any case, your utopian world where we are not responsible for ourselves and are instead responsible for eachother, even ignoring for a moment that the very concept is fraught with problems, simply doesn't exist because people that take no responsibility - your supposedly-faultless lazy people - TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY. Not for themselves, not for you, not for me. They expect society to bend to their will and will raise all sorts of heck when it doesn't.

I live not far from one of the most downtrodden, most concentrated populations of homeless people in North America - the Vancouver downtown east side - and I'll tell you this: giving such supposedly-helpless-but-inactuality-mostly-irrespo nsible people hand-outs does only one thing, and that's to make them more beligerent about getting further hand-outs. If you wish to bend to serve such masters they will forever be in need of your service, let me assure you. Don't.

People need to take responsibility for themselves. Those who don't take such responsibility sadly need to pay the price themselves. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay it for them. An unfortunate truth, this is, but the alternative is to be forever taken advantage of by those who frankly don't give a shit about themselves, you, society, or the world around them, and if you think what I'm saying applies only to the homeless people I mentioned earlier, you couldn't be more wrong. This is just as true of the lazy people that started off this whole thread. Allow them to be lazy, for certain, but don't set up the rest of society to get dragged down with them.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1, Interesting)

DarkSarin (651985) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834072)

Where do I start? People are born lazy? Wow...

First, please show me the research that indicates that this is the case. I'd love to see it. I don't believe it exists, but I would love to see it. Frankly, it flies in the face of I think is the generally accepted position which is that although there is a genetic tendency for obesity (which also influences metabolism), the behavior trait (and that is what it is, although personality trait might be equally true) of laziness is a heavy mix of both environment and genetics. It is also domain-specific, which is a very important thing to realize.

From a hedonic motivation standpoint (read "A theory of Behavoir in Organizations" by Naylor, Pritchard & Ilgen if you can find it; if not, "Work Motivation" by Victor Vroom (1964) will also be illustrative), domain specificity is very useful in explaining why a person who does not engage in physical activity will spend considerable effort on playing video games. It is simply that they don't feel that their affect (mood, happiness, etc) will be as positively influenced by regular phsyical activity as it will by playing video games. Thus they will not engage in physical activity even though they will spend endless hours playing DDR.

From a purely objective standpoint, however, they are wrong. Regular exercise has been shown to be a very effective treatments of depression, as well as specifically elevating mood at the time of exercise. From a psychological aspect, the average gamer would be much happier if they got an hour or two of exercise each day (in addition to gaming heavily).

As far as personal responsibility goes, I have to take issue with that because you are making some very deep philosophical arguments. First, even if a person were born lazy (which I doubt, as expressed previously), would that mean that they could do nothing to change that? If nothing can be done to change that, then I can mostly accept what you say. If, however, they are born that way, but it can be changed, then it is the responsibility of their parent or relatives to do so, and any blame for failure in this is the parents. Personal responsibility is not the idea that you are responsible only for your actions, but that you are completely responsible for all of your actions, as well as the unintended consequences of them (such as unexpected offspring).

The problem with your argument for socialism (which is what you are defining) is that if enough people decide that they can live comfortably from the system, then they will cease to contribute to the system which sustains the less fortunate. This is to be predicted from almost every theory of behavior which I know. Not all of these people will quit working, but there are a number who would rather do other things, such as writing books of dubious quality (some people who would love to write but aren't any good would try it anyways). Certainly you would end up with a few people of exceptional talent and drive (now there's a word that makes me shudder!) that would always want to work, but the idea of allowing those that are just lazy to just be lazy is unworkable.

The idea of socialized care is noble in many ways--on the face of it, the idea of universal health care is a wonderful thing, but, aside from the much-touted meme of personal responsibility degrading under socialism, there are good reasons why it becomes unsustainable if carried to the extreme. Eventually, especially in the system you are touting, enough people quit contributing to the system and it becomes unstable and collapses.

The only way for socialism or communism to work is if everyone who is possibly able to is contributing to the system in some fashion. For it to really succeed and make everyone rich (which is the goal of true communism: to get rich together), it requires that everyone be working in their optimal endeavor (what they are best at), and to be as productive as they can. There is no room for laziness is this model, however.

In fact, being non-productive doesn't seem to work in any model. If you are truly disabled and unable to work, then you should be cared for--preferably by your family and friends, and failing that, extended social groups should step in (such as charities, churches and eventually the state). Otherwise there is something that can be contributed by almost everyone (and frankly, there are very few truly disabled--look at Stephen Hawkings as an example of how 'disabled' one can be and still be very productive and useful to society).

Personal Responsibility is, in the end, part of the basis of any society (and to those who are into cross-cultural research, I am aware of the differences in Eastern and Western Culture--they aren't that different, however; as an example of how this applies to a strongly collectivist culture such as China, think about it this way--at some level someone is still considered responsible, it is a level of analysis issue, not whether or not the concept of responsibility exists). If a person can disclaim responsibility for actions, even because of genetic dispositions, then we are going to open the door to a lot of crime for which the person is able to claim some external force or agency made them do it, and thus be exonerated. You don't have to go that far, but that is the route that some people are already taking.

Instead we lock up criminals, even if they are mentally ill, because they are still dangerous. If we, as a society, decide that they don't have any personal responsibility for their crime, then we will either lock them up with no chance for reform (on the idea that because they aren't responsible they can't be expected to change), or let them go because they didn't have a choice.

You won't reduce crime by taking personal responsibility or need for survival out of the equation, but neither will the concept necessarily lead to reduced crime. Instead it requires that parents and other adults teach children why crime is damaging not just to society, but to themselves, and that everyone will benefit more if we are all working.

I don't know how you make the jump that because a person is lazy that they have little to offer. They might be quite talented, but if they have never bothered to find out, then they will never know. Besides, if all you want to do is play video games all day, it is still possible to make a fair bit of cash.

I could go on, but I am at work and this is already too long. I haven't really cited as much research as I would like, but I think you get the picture I am trying to paint. Accept it or not.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

SpecTheIntro (951219) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834619)

The above post is an excellent one, and should be modded to +5 ASAP. DarkSarin, do you have any more books to recommend on behavior?

Re:Translate Sign Language (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833442)

More like we need games that make people think, rather than twitchtwitchboom. Yeah, we could definitely use more people thinking about what's going on in today's world.

DDR (2, Insightful)

The Famous Brett Wat (12688) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833458)

A video game that actually involves burning calories is probably just what the US needs, and more of it.

Not just the US, either: there are plenty of places with obesity issues. But for a good aerobic workout, you don't need DDD: DDR and its ilk will do nicely. Heck, I've lost about 10kg by exercising with StepMania in recent months, and most of the time I don't even use the dance-pad, let alone some fancy-schmancy video-based detector.

Re:DDR (1)

lofidan (725738) | more than 7 years ago | (#15835161)

Heck, I've lost about 10kg by exercising with StepMania in recent months, and most of the time I don't even use the dance-pad

How do you excercise with StepMania if you don't do it on the pad?

Jump around while whacking the cursor keys?

Re:Translate Sign Language (2, Funny)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833545)

I completely disagree. There would be nothing worse than smart kids that are buff like jocks. Well, at least for my ego.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833834)

Looking at the people who play DDD, I don't think it burns an awful lot of calories. If you want to burn calories you need short, intense exercise, not hours of low-intensity.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

condour75 (452029) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832934)

DDR isn't quite that frivolous. Kids love it and it gets them exercising, which is no easy feat these days. This could add upper-body moves which would make it a better workout. I could also imagine something like this being used for physical rehabilitation after an injury.

Translating sign language would be cool too.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

bigox (158657) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832947)

You make it sound so easy. There is a huge difficulty gap between sign language and DDR. There is a difference between matching silouettes and parsing actions.

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833128)

OK, not sign language - but how about semaphore communication?

I suspect it will just be some horrible bastardisation of saturday night fever rather than anything practically useful. But why should entertainment be practically useful? It's exercise, it probably hones reactions and coordination, and it can also be competitive to whatever level people want to take it, which seems to increase how much it will hook young'uns (males, usually). Better than the (indoor) equivalents from my youth, certainly.

FatPhil

Re:Translate Sign Language (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833681)

I think DDR will be more productive in th course of humanity than the invention and use of DD.
Just think, in the future, two DDR pads will be set up facing each other, and you'll have to mimic what the person of the opposite gender dancing in front of you, is doing. It could lead to a revolution in geek reproductivity.

Full body first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15832887)

Full body first post

This is only worth it... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15832894)

... if there's a stage in which you must mimic the dance moves of Stephen Colbert.

Re:This is only worth it... (1)

andrewman327 (635952) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832942)

Better: Conan O'Brian. The top level must be trying to replicate his string dance.


I support the decision to first use this platform for gaming. They make money from it and the general public will take interest. They can produce more specialized gear in the future.

Oh Great!! (5, Funny)

The Great Pretender (975978) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832897)

So now the whole world can see how this white man can't boogie.

Perhaps this can help my sex life? I'll just slip in a porn DVD grab the wife and then get points for following the action on screen.

Re:Oh Great!! (1)

Pollardito (781263) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833147)

exactly, i value my own vision too much to click on a link and watch someone at SIGGRAPH dancing. at best it's the Elaine Dance, at worst...well, let's not think about it.

Re:Oh Great!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833233)

Perhaps this can help my sex life? I'll just slip in a porn DVD grab the wife and then get points for following the action on screen.


Won't she be disappointed as you won't even reach her?

Re:Oh Great!! (1)

ender_pete (412285) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833297)

great now there will end up being a sex sex revolution or a F*k F*k revolution....

walking by the arcade...
what in the hell is that kid doing... is he... oh my he is
wow 5 year olds are pretty advanced

Very Afraid. But Hopeful. (5, Funny)

fragmentate (908035) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832902)

Well. With DDR my family looked like a bunch of kids with Tourette's Syndrome [wikipedia.org]. Now they'll appear violently epileptic.

I can only hope they're unaware when this is released.

The technical angle on this software is what redeemed CmdrTaco from the "oh-this-will-only-make-me-look-more-dumb dept." Pretty interesting stuff, especially since it seems this stuff matures more rapidly once it goes into a game. (i.e. Flight Sims).

Re:Very Afraid. But Hopeful. (1)

dubbreak (623656) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833163)

With DDR my family looked like a bunch of kids with Tourette's Syndrome.

So they looked like this guy [tourettesguy.com]?

Tag "gay" (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15832904)


DDR is a giant bukkake of lameness.

But I still need to pay rent! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15832927)

Wait, a dance game where you have to actually dance? How revolutionary!

I'm currently pouting at the lack of specs. Is this going to be on my PS2 (*sigh*, PS3) or do I have to shell out for a new standalone application? Granted I didn't download the video...

Seems like a lot of work for something that isn't that novel. I sense that a DDR with additional EyeToy functionality would be just as good, and I already *have* most everything for that.

Re:But I still need to pay rent! (4, Insightful)

RobertB-DC (622190) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833017)

Seems like a lot of work for something that isn't that novel. I sense that a DDR with additional EyeToy functionality would be just as good, and I already *have* most everything for that.

Indeed. Both DDR Extreme [ddrfreak.com] (and its sequel, DDR Extreme 2) have EyeToy support and include a "Hands and Feet" mode. You're supposed to supplement the foot movement with left and right hand movement. It doesn't give the whole-body positioning that the article discusses, which is a *good* thing.

Konami's simplified method of adding upper-body "dancing" gives you more flexibility to come up with a "routine" of your own. The article's suggestion of a system that requires you to put your body in a precise position is pretty goofy by comparison. It would be like a version of DDR that requires you to use a particular foot to hit a pad -- sacrificing gameplay flexibility for an "enhanced workout".

Plus, the manual for DDR Extreme 2 (which I just bought for my teenage daughters and my long-past-teenage self) suggests only that the background be contrasting, without a lot of motion. No requirement that it be white and illuminated. I guess Konami figured out how to do motion detection in the real world after all.

You know, there's a good argument here that university research types ought to spend more time in the freshman dorms before they announce their "new" discoveries, especially if they're based on a popular video game.

Re:But I still need to pay rent! (1)

El Torico (732160) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833152)

Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of these? It could be used as a Polka trainer!

Re:But I still need to pay rent! (1)

androvsky (974733) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833541)

Exactly. What's more, is not only are there real-world versions of this now (I also own both DDR Extreme and Extreme 2), but with the forthcoming xbox 360 stereo eye-toy that can see in 3d space, the possibility for far more interesting gameplay modes is near at hand. Add in whatever funky eyetoy sequel Sony is going to have (supposed to be hi-definition, rumored to be able to see in 3d space with just one camera somehow), and the Nintendo Wii is going to be in third place for unique and/or realistic controllers, let alone graphics.

People, especially on slashdot, keep promoting Nintendo as being THE gameplay company, as if Sony and MS have done nothing. I'd think the Guitar Hero stories alone would help cancel that out, but would these geeks stop forgetting about the eyetoy, for crying out loud? You can think of it as a $20 webcam that runs in linux, but it's also the first step towards some really interesting games. It's not perfect, granted, it can be prety picky sometimes about the background. But I've already played eyetoy games that work best while holding a wooden practice katana, who needs the Wii?

Okay, so the eyetoy games on the bundled Play disc are horrible and stupid, but if a lowly ps2 can do that, I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with the next gen. Now if only Sony bundled every PS3 with whatever the new eyetoy is, then we'd be getting somewhere.

This sounds more like a fun assignment for a high-level undergraduate comp-sci course. Give the students a library to read raw data from a webcam, have it match motion (against a bright white background, sheesh) with a predetermined animation.

Re:But I still need to pay rent! (1)

DarkDragonVKQ (881472) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833595)

The thing is Nintendo is going be making the Wiimote pretty much the standard method of controls for the majority of the games. Ensuring that it'll be used and that everyone who buys a Wii will have one.

You can't guarantee that with the Eyetoy unless Sony decides to pack it in (glad to see you commented on that). If it's like the first Eyetoy you get it when buying games. Game developers do not make games for consoles based on hardware you might have. Some companies will make games for existing niches (DDR for example) but it'll pretty much never be a standard of control. There's few things that jump the gap from optional to standard. Rumble for example.

I think they've fixed some of the issues with the last eyetoy. Though I think that having the Wiimote with the built in technology and the sensor bar you basically attach to whereever and calibrate for the first time would be better then a camera that requires the right amount of light, etc.. (I think Sony fixed that problem though). Though then there's also another advantage Wii has over PS3 with an eyetoy. Multiplayer. For the Wii your position doesn't really matter. For a PS3 with eyetoy position is going matter (unless the camera is a wide screen camera..or whatever the term for it is).

Re:But I still need to pay rent! (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833921)

I don't know any single serious DDR player who thought the hand motion was a good idea. But at the same time those serious DDR players don't tend to buy american releases as their music tends to be lacking. But few think hand motions are needed. Sure if you can't do anything over a 5 then yeah handmotions are possible, but once you're playing 7s and 8s, it's extra and just gimmicky at best.

And Extreme 2.... well I won't get into it but basically it's all the songs that should have been in Extreme in the first place.

The problem with the DDR extreme's Eye toy is that it's NOT this. Basically it takes the area where the hand should be, and takes the color, then if another color overlays it, it considers it to be "activated" it's more complex than that, but it's entirely too simple.

The system they are proposing would also be able to tell you if your using 1, 2 or 3 fingers, or just your hand, which finger you use and what direction it's in. This is more simple than what they are planning.

The system now is you make a whole motion, you can do the motion how you want. It's not taking away from the system because now your whole body has to be moving towards that new motion so you don't really have the option no matter what, the idea is this is dancing, not just hitting a pad however you want (And in addition this means you can't use your hands or controller to cheat the system)

But if you want to think the Ps2 DDR Extreme changed the way the game, is go ahead. Then try to explain why Supernova's arcades doesn't have those options, or go ask the people who seriously play those what they think of the hands and feet idea in DDR extreme and extreme 2

What about the Wii? (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833184)

I was thinking they could get this to work on the upcoming Wii, and it would be able to seriously detect depth-position, unlike the EyeToy or the thing in the article. Imagine: holster a Wiimote to each arm and leg. The screen would specify the moves, perhaps through symbols that appear on the screen with some warning. Unlike DDR, this would be able to tell *which* foot you use for each move, and in addition, it could pick up kicks, twirls, claps, arm rolls, touching the ground, and probably a lot more I can't think of right now. I really hope someone makes such a game, and I'll try to get an SDK if no one does. (Not like they'll let an average Joe have one at any price, but I'll try.)

No fat kids (5, Interesting)

sensei85 (989372) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832936)

Does this mean that the fat kid who lives at the arcade and plays 3+ hours of DDR every day yet never loses weight isn't going to be able to play DDD, because his silhouette can't possibly match up with the figures on the screen? I think that's unfair. Give sweaty headband kid a chance!

Re:No fat kids (1)

deft (253558) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833149)

3 hours of DDR every day and you think he's going to be fat? Sorry man, unless he uses the other 21 hours of the day to eat chili cheese burgers surfing /., he's going to be just fine.

Re:No fat kids (1)

idonthack (883680) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833207)

It really depends on what level he's playing at. If he's playing the wimpy beginner stuff (step... step... step... step...) then he's probably not burning any calories. He'd be better off walking. But if he's playing the insane difficulty levels (you know, the ones where it's physically impossible to stand upright unless you're holding on to something) then he'll be doing good.

Re:No fat kids (1)

Psychotext (262644) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833452)

...you know, the ones where it's physically impossible to stand upright unless you're holding on to something
 
The very best players can do all the songs (maybe not to AAA) without bar humping. You'll find it's a very popular flamefest on DDR sites where both sides of the issue are argued fiercely. =) Personally I prefer the challenge of no bar, but to each their own.

Re:No fat kids (1)

trix7117 (835907) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833243)

Sorry man, unless he uses the other 21 hours of the day to eat chili cheese burgers surfing /.,...
Replace /. with Myspace and that pretty much sums up the average kid's day.

Re:No fat kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833247)

In order to get fat in the first place, you have to have decided that you want to be fat. Being fat is, literally, a life choice. There's nothing forcing anyone to be fat other than laziness.

The thing about people who've decided to be fat is that they like eating. (Imagine that.) So when they start exercising, they use it as an excuse to eat even more food.

I've known fat people who gained weight while exercising, because they decided that since they jogged 100M that meant they were in the clear to supersize their daily McDonalds.

I can definitely see a fat kid doing 3 hours of DDR and then "compensating" by eating a terrible diet, allowing him to maintain his weight. Especially if the kid uses soda to rehydrate, since the caffeine causes the kid to need more soda to rehydrate as compared with water.

Re:No fat kids (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833906)

It doesn't matter how long you do it, the lack of resistance and the way you're just moving up and down without having to propel yourself anywhere means the exercise benefits of this game are minimal.

ParaParaParadise (4, Informative)

DyslexicLegume (875291) | more than 7 years ago | (#15832938)

I think Konami's already made a lot of these sorts of games before. The one that springs to mind is ParaParaParadise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ParaParaParadise [wikipedia.org]

Re:ParaParaParadise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833931)

Different idea. Parapara doesn't recognize motion, just recognizes when you break a beam of light. Sure it means you can use your hands, feet, ass, wang, and whatever else you can imagine to dance, but it doesn't recognize discrete body parts and positions.

It's just like one of those iPod commercials... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15832997)

...except with ugly people who can't dance.

Re:It's just like one of those iPod commercials... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833126)

So it's exactly like one of those iPod commercials then.

Why More Vanity????? (0, Offtopic)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833005)

So, I am sitting here in my Fedora Core 4 linux office linux distribution (no I dont have to be working as I finish at 5:00 and it is 6:00 GMT over here), when I attempt to watch the video refered by the Slashdot site (a news site which is supposed to be pro open source, anti Microsoft (c)), surprisingly, the video they link is nothing less than a nono-propietary-format WMV file uh?

Unfortunately I can not watch is as my distribution can not handle *that*. And no, I can not install anything (because I do not have r00t privileges). So, could anyone be so pollite to provide a mpeg or at least a FLV (aka youtube | gvideo) link?

Cheers mates!

The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (1)

ajgeek (892406) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833016)

I like this idea. But I'm wondering how it will sell? It looks like you need a flat screen behind you and a camera in front of you to make the game work! In fact, with nearly 2/3 of the nation considered "obese," who's actually going to use this?

This seems too niche to have a chance here. Hopefully they can make money elsewhere in the world.

Re:The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (1)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833142)

People spend millions of dollars a year on gym memberships that they never use. If they market this as a fun way to burn calories, they will sell plenty of copies to older people. And, with any luck, if it really is fun, people might actually use it more often than they go to the gym.

The trick, of course, is to market it in such a way as to highlight its possible fitness applications without turning off the younger audience.

Re:The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (2, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833151)

with nearly 2/3 of the nation considered "obese," who's actually going to use this?

You know, I think that's exactly the same thing they said about DDR.

Well, they must be right (0, Troll)

maillemaker (924053) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833404)

Because what is DDR? I've never heard of it...

Steve

Re:Well, they must be right (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833477)

I'm guessing you're trolling, because every other post so far has DDR in it.

But just in case: http://www.google.com/search?q=DDR [google.com]

Yes, but no definition (1)

maillemaker (924053) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834350)

I already googled after my post and found out what it was, and then it hit me that the title of this slashdot article gives the definition also, but I didn't make the connection.

Yes, many of the previous posts that met my threshold prior to mine did mention DDR, but only "DDR", and did not say what it was. I had never heard of DDR before.

Steve

Re:The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (1)

kabocox (199019) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834080)

with nearly 2/3 of the nation considered "obese," who's actually going to use this?
You know, I think that's exactly the same thing they said about DDR.


I think this is kinda where Wii is heading. I'd call it the stealth excerise game. Think about "forcing" your gamers to physically move around alot or from various positions/wide body movements. You could "trick" your gamers into doing alot more body movements rather than them just sitting there. How long until some one combines a DDR pad and the Wii controller in an interesting way so that you move your character's stance or lower body foot work with the DDR pad and play with the controller for weapons/tools?

Re:The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (2, Informative)

UltraAyla (828879) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833437)

According to the American Obesity Association [obesity.org], 2/3 of the nation is overweight, not obese, and is wildly different than 2/3 being obese. Only about 30% of the nation is obese (which is still horrible, granted, but much better than 2/3).

Re:The Coolest Tech Always Starts Useless (1)

ajgeek (892406) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833501)

Oops, fair enough. Wrong word usage. Apologies to the 1/3 of the U.S. who is overweight (which includes me), and not obese. 2/3 is overweight and 1/2 of that is obese. That still only leaves about 1/3 of the nation who could sustain a game. I just hope it hits the local arcade so I can look like a moron and have fun doing it, 'cause I cannot afford to buy everything needed to play it at home.

Three Ds? (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833057)

Until I read the article, I thought it was going to be Dance Dance Devolution.

Either way, it's safe to say:
we're through being cool.

Real life DDR coming soon to dance clubs (4, Funny)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833116)

The best part about going to the new "real life DDR" (a dance club) is that if you can get the moves down, the "score" part is way better than in the game!

Re:Real life DDR coming soon to dance clubs (1)

trybywrench (584843) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834130)

The best part about going to the new "real life DDR" (a dance club) is that if you can get the moves down, the "score" part is way better than in the game!

very true, learn to dance and the girls go nuts. you could probably just memorize DDR steps and do them at a club and still pick up 3 or 4. I don't know what it is with girls and dancing but they love it.

Impressive! (2, Funny)

cycletronic (918616) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833237)

The video hasn't suffered from the /. effect. I suspect this has to do with their codec choice. And with the OS choice of many /.ers.

Current Nintendo research in this area (1, Troll)

Samir Gupta (623651) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833301)

I'm intrigued reading this article. At, Nintendo, our r & D are working also working on something simliar to this. taking the integration of physical activity with video games to a whole new level... we're researching motion tracking in 3-D using purely computer vision techniques, and using no sensors worn on the body, like traditional mocap techniques require.

One difference is that we track the motion in 3-D space, using spatial extraction coupled with a stochastic Kalman-filter technique, rather than doing silloutte matching like these Taiwan guys are doing.

We'd rather not say more at this point, but suffice to say, we've got some interesting preliminary prototypes of this technology, such as Swing Swing Revolution, like DDR, except you have to do swing moves, not merely hit the arrows with your feet, and Kung Fu Master, a remake of the venerable NES game, where you guessed it, need to do real punching and kicking.

We look forward to commercializing this and making Nintendo the first and foremost choice of overweight geeks everywhere!

Re:Current Nintendo research in this area (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833342)

What about having someone holster a Wiimote to each limb and having dances that incorporate whatever movement can be detected that way, like I suggest here [slashdot.org]? Okay, you probably can't talk about that. But I was just thinking, that seems like an easier way to detect depth than a Kalman filter. I don't mind if no company tries to implement this, as long as Nintendo lets me buy an SDK so I can try it myself.

Re:Current Nintendo research in this area (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833463)

Combine this with some sort of sliding-foot-interface and it could make for an interesting FPS. I don't know how you could allow the simulation of running/walking without something that was inherently unstable, but - hey - that's why I don't design that stuff.

So, I'm curious: Are we really to believe the head of new technology at Nintendo trolls /. and posts on occasion? Or are you just pulling our collective legs, trying to angle for a few more informative mods? ;-)

Re:Current Nintendo research in this area (2, Interesting)

m0nstr42 (914269) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834296)

At first I thought there's no way you can get 3D motion from a single video frame (not a completely off-the-cuff comment, I know a thing or two about computer vision). Then the geometer in me said "but the dimensionality of the configuration space is limited by limb rigidity." Not every point on the body can be in any point in 3D space; e.g. the hand has to be ~12" from the elbow. If you can track the shoulder, elbow, and hand, you can estimate how long they are and deduce (up to some reflections) where they are in 3D space based on the rigid body kinematics (assuming the shoulder to be fixed as an example). Eliminate the reflections by ruling out those that would violate anatomically impossible poses and/or produce occlusions. It has flaws, but I'm curious if anyone's tried it. An old prof of mine was working on something similar involving tracking limb movement for pattern recognition, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone has looked into this.

That's right, I just generated and solved my own argument. The electronic extension of the voices in my head. :)

So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833312)

So what about kids that only have one arm?

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15834715)

They'll be outside playing with the one-legged kids who were disenfranchised from the original DDR.

Grandma's Boy... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833330)

Now everyone can dance like the older tester to Dance Dance Revolution in full body mode for a perfect score! Coming to a gym near you!

Strike a pose! (3, Informative)

IntelliTubbie (29947) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833398)

As a DDR fan reporting from SIGGRAPH, I'm disappointed to say that the gameplay is more like striking a series of "poses" than actual dancing. "Okay, now put your arms straight up. Now put them in a V. Now lean over sideways. It's fun to stay at the Y-M-C-A! ..."

Cheers,
IT

Re:Strike a pose! (1)

mnemonic_ (164550) | more than 7 years ago | (#15835038)

When I was near their exhibit, they asked a lady to take off her skirt (presumably so that her silouhette would appear better).

It seemed like whole the activity was just too goofy for most people. Then again, people probably thought that about DDR at first too.

EyeToy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833584)

Havent't this been done with the EyeToy on PS2 already? DDR Extreme has EyeToy support and it's not as fun as with the pad only. Maybe it's because I never knew how to dance.

Are we going to be seeing (1)

isecore (132059) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833598)

the Elaine Benes [wikipedia.org] style of dancing then? Described as "a full-bodied dry heave set to music" by George.

I'd love seeing everyone do the little kicks!

More cool stuff from SIGGRAPH 2006... (1)

posterlogo (943853) | more than 7 years ago | (#15833800)

...at CNET [com.com].

I think on of the images there is the guts of the full-body-musical-touch-sensor-thingie. It appears to allow you to touch various parts of your body to activate those specific synths. Bang bang bang...

Mosh Mosh Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15833975)

When I read the title I was thinking of Mosh Mosh Revolution....

Imagine the Wii version of DDR with this (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834070)

I mean, think of the full body recognition, with a wand attachment for on-screen verification, and how many ubergeeks will suddenly learn really cool dance moves that will wow all the babes who will think they're super hot.

Oh, yeah, for the standard geek in high school, this is going to be a lifesaver!

In The Groove (1)

DeadCatX2 (950953) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834131)

ITG [wikipedia.org] has hand steps. Either you have to hit more than two arrows at once, or you have to be planted on two freeze arrows and still hit other arrows.

Not quite the same, but it involves more than your feet. Especially in Double mode - Bend Your Mind Expert Double has four freeze arrows you have to hold down simultaneously, and then you need to hit two more arrows. It does a number on your knees though.

I Hate DDR (1)

QuantumFTL (197300) | more than 7 years ago | (#15834481)

I used to be a DDR freak, well not a master but definitely very much into it. I think this was mostly because it was the only way to get girls to come to my apartment (and that it did, very well I might add). It was my exercise, my passion, but then one day I decided to go all the way - TWO MATS BABY! Long story short, it's nine months later and my big toe has still not recovered from that "experience". With each step I'm reminded why the game comes with injury warnings...

DDR, you're a real bastard!
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