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Chad Davis May Be the Next Kevin Mitnick

Roblimo posted more than 15 years ago | from the busted-on-the-front-page dept.

The Courts 281

19-year-old Chad Davis, of Green Bay, Wisconsin, made the front page of The Washington Post today. The story that features him says, "During [a] June 2 search, Davis admitted that he belonged to a notorious hacking gang that calls itself Global Hell, and the FBI agents let him know they were cracking down on the group. On June 28, Davis allegedly struck back: He replaced the Army's Internet home page with the message: 'Global Hell is alive. Global Hell will not die.'" The article reads like a chapter from The Hacker Crackdown, and it looks like Chad Davis may be used as an example of what the feds can do to crackers who mess with government sites. Mainstream news stories about Global Hell started appearing in May. I expect to see many more in upcoming months. Mitnick redux? Could be.

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Who cares about these scum! (4)

mattc (12417) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711754)

A criminal is going to jail? Oh what a shame. I am deeply concerned about the welfare of script kiddies. Yeah, right.

You get what you deserve (3)

Masem (1171) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711758)

IMO, if you are a *cracker*, and go around and maliciously change sites, especially those with the means and ways to prosecute you, you get exactly what you deserve.

On the other hand, if you are a hacker and find a security loophole on the same sort of sites and quietly let the owners of the site know about that, you should be able to report that without fear of being prosecuted.

Unfortunately there's a fine line here and it's rather hard to define. Maybe we need to have people join a Hackers Union to allow them ethical hacking privaledges.

Don't Diss Mitnick (1)

infojack (25600) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711760)

Don't be comparing this kid to Mitnick, Mitnick had skill, this kid had a bag full of tricks.

super (1)

rizzo (21697) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711763)

Good to see a local boy in the news. I agree, however, that if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. It IS a premeditated crime, and he deserves to be punished.

HOWEVER: The fact that he will probably get a stiffer sentece than most violent criminals is at the heart of the issue for most in the tech community, and deeply worries me.

free Chad Davis! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711766)

pls support free chad davis campaign.. got www.freechaddavis.com and click on my banner ads thx.

No, not really.. (1)

Swano (12778) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711769)

You really think that a little script kiddie can be compare to Kevin.... what a shame for you!

Now get a clue!



Green Bay Hackers (2)

Ripp (17047) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711772)

Sorry just had to say that out loud.
(for those scratching their head, think football....)


Ohhh...yeah!


This proves that people need to tighten security! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711774)

If banks stored all of their cash in large cloth sacks piled up on the lawn out front and they get stolen, you can bet I'm going to be bitching at the bank MORE than I will at the crooks because the bank is more at fault for being stupid.

Similarly, people who put up out-of-the-box websites that are insecure by default, and never even asked nor checked if their site was secure have little right to bitch and demand vengeance when their sites get h4x0r3d.

The internet isn't safe. Set up defenses and prepare for the attacks or go back to sticking flyers under windshield wipers and get off the 'net.

imagine that (1)

vyesue (76216) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711776)

the big news today is that someone got caught accessing a computer which he was not authorized to access, and now the federal government is going to aggressively prosecute him both as a penalty and as a high-profile deterrent to other hackers.

is this surprising? no. is this a problem? no. as we move into the future, the feds are goign to get better and better at catching and prosecuting those who chose to trespass in computers that they are not supposed to access. good for them.

Where There's Lawyers, There's Harm (1)

rcade (4482) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711784)

However, I as an individual am hardly harmed. If the IRS gets their facts wrong and I underpay, the IRS is at fault, not me. I may have to hire a good lawyer and go to court, but no lasting harm is done.

I think most people who have hired a lawyer to defend themselves and go to court would define that as "lasting harm." Lawyers and trials are expensive, both in money and time. The IRS Web site is just one of many that publishes information that could be harmful to people if altered or removed.

If my only source of information for a recall is a government web page I have to take the trouble to find and dig through, then there are more serious problems with the recall notification procedure than a petty vandal's mucking with the web page.

Access to accurate information from the government is essential to the democratic process. I think it's a serious problem when crackers alter this information, despite the fact that most of these break-ins have been trivial to date.

If you don't hear about a product recall from the media, the only place that information is made available is the CPSC Web site. It serves a vital need, and it's important for that information to be reliable.

As more people rely on the Web for information, the necessity of accuracy on government Web sites becomes more important to this country. That's why I think it is important to investigate and prosecute people who break into government Web sites and alter them.

I am at most inconvenienced by such things. The government, on the other hand, has its power to govern more seriously hampered.

I think the feds prosecute crackers for the same reasons many local prosecuters do. It's a sexy crime with non-violent perpetrators that gets media attention and can help justify bigger budgets. No conspiracy there, aside from the most popular conspiracy on Earth -- making easy money.

boo hoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711837)

I would think that if the FBI came to visit me, I would probably take it a bit seriously. Apparently, Mr. Davis didn't and now he's going to spend some time in jail. What's the big deal, some guy who's proven himself to be an idiot is going to the slammer? Don't drop the soap, dude.

why compare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711839)

kevin is real criminal.. he *crack* for a living.. this one just want to enflate his ego.. (think so)

Clue? (1)

babyroo (63975) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711840)

I'm sorry, but that is just sad. You don't attack the government after they explicitly tell you they are watching. Come to think of it, you don't attack the government at all, unless you happen to be a founding father revolutionary... Rebel without a cause? nah, Rebel without a clue...

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd"

Duh... (1)

KnightStalker (1929) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711842)

Okay... kid is careless, arrogant and stupid, gets his hands on some scripts, finds some security holes, and intentionally pisses off the FBI.

And this is news that he's going to be prosecuted? He might as well have walked into their DC headquarters waving a shotgun around. It'll be news when he *is* the next Mitnick.

Your're right!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711845)

The kids a punk, and deserves what he gets. All t his cracking is really not much different than graffiti you see on buildings. I'm always happy when those guys get caught, and the same with the crackers and wannabe crackers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:No, not really.. (1)

vyesue (76216) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711849)

why do so many people worship mitnick? because he got caught? because he spent a lot of time in jail? because he's a chronic repeat offender and parole violator?

I don't understand why noone gets behind murderers or burglars like they're getting behind mitnick.

Crackers: Worse than murders/rapists/molestors (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711852)

Why are crackers spending more time incarcerated than many murderers, rapists, and child molestors? I'm not saying crackers should not be prosecuted, but something is bass ackwards in the justice system.

Murder, rape, and child molestation are far more serious crimes, and deserving of far more punishment than fscking up someone's web page.

Crackers should be treated more like kids who spraypaint their crap on walls. For messing things up, their punishment is to clean things up. Give crackers shovels and put 'em out to clean up the subway walls, or interstate embankments.

Ha ha ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711854)

Sure, he's a cracker. He's probably a script kiddie, too.

But I personally think all these cracked sites can be very funny. The army one is kinda lame, but when varsityblues.com was cracked, I was laughing my ass off. I guess I didn't see the point in making a movie based on the hardships of being popular in high school.

-Some Anonymous Coward
"I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV."

? (1)

supz (77173) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711857)

just reading the comments on this article is like really [mind expanding?]. there are mainly two totally different perspectives on this subject, that are both totally legit, but go contradict each other so much.

#1 being that you believe that the kids should get what they deserve for being stupid
#2 being that the server's are stupid for not checking

alot of educated-looking people have posted stuff supporting both of these view points.

just felt like sharing that

Let's see here... (2)

GMontag (42283) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711859)

Is Chad going to be placed in solitary confinement until he "voluntarily waives" his rights to preliminary hearings, like Kevin?

Is Chad going to be charged in the farthest point away from WI, in the continental US, like Bill Cheek?

Is Chad going to have to rot in a "pre-trial" facility for 4.25 years until he "voluntairly pleads" to some of the charges?

Have the Feds created $multimillion in damages yet?

Yea, screwing with a web site should be punished, at about the same level as littering. NOT to the same level as murder.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (2)

substrate (2628) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711867)

So in other words if you happen to forget to lock the door to your abode I can feel free to walk out with your computer, tv set or anything else that catches my eye? What was your address?

Speedy Trial (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711868)

Yes, this script kiddie deserves to be prosecuted, but he also deserves a speedy trial, not to be left rotting away for several years in prison.

People need to learn that computers are personal property and you are tresspassing if you do not have authorization to enter. Finding a security hole in a computer is like finding a broken window in a house. Sure, you are able to gain access to the house, but you are tresspassing if you do so. Yes, the owner should make every attempt to fix the broken window once it is discovered, but that still doesn't give you the right to enter.

Your're wrong!!! (?) (1)

seizer (16950) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711870)

Actually, you are half right. I think the issue here is whether the authorities will sentance fairly (all assuming the guy's guilty *cough*) or whether they'll try to make another punitive example of somebody who may still have some redeemning qualities.

--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me

Re:why compare? (1)

KrAphtd1nN3r (33859) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711872)

Sorry to say that, but Kevin Mitnick never took profit from the hacks (or cracks, whatever!) he pulled. He might have stolen 20 000 credit card numbers, but never used a single one of them to buy stuff!



It might not have been real intelligent, but please get the right facts! Kevin never stole from anyone!

The key issue of the article, that I see is: (1)

fastang (47705) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711875)

Take into account the following 2 quotes:

""It is not that these are super whiz kids; it is the technology that gives them the ability to cover their tracks enough that you can have a hard time making a criminal case against them," said a senior federal investigator."

"like Davis, who are relatively brazen and unskilled, according to federal law enforcement officials and computer security experts."

If they are so unskilled how did they crack so many, high profile sights? Is the security that bad, or do they expect us to believe that these crackers have in their possession "SuperDooper" powerful software that cracks the excellent security in place on these servers.

There's a common thread (1)

KnightStalker (1929) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711878)

I think everybody agrees, this schmuck is not going to get a whole hell of a lot of sympathy :-)

Re:The key issue of the article, that I see is: (1)

fastang (47705) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711880)

Oops, sites that is.

As usual /.ers just don't get it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711881)


It is no doubt that what these kids are doing is wrong.

However they are being penalized for breaking and entering/destruction of gov property

when the crime is more akin to

Grafiti

With easy to wash off/non destructive paint

It's not crime/nocrime but the fact that the USGOV, in lieue of installing proper security (no firewalls at my gov site!) is putting it's efforts into something it understands: Harrasing civilians.

(I would PAY for a /. spell checker!)

Enough already (1)

asad (65703) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711882)

Am I the only one to be tired of hearing about script kiddies in the news ? I mean there are so many more interesting people doing constructive things with their time that I am amazed with the media's fascination with "crackers". I could understand if the person had found some new and obscure bug that no one else had noticed, ok that would be minor news but the fact that some script kiddie broke into a military site *again* is hardly new worthy. And the worst part of this whole thing is the image the computer industry gets from this, I don't know how many times I had friends who don't know anything about computers ask me if I can break into some computer site for them. Is anyone else tired of all these "cracker" stories ?

Re:? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711886)

being that you believe that the kids should get what they deserve for being stupid

Except that the FBI told this kid to knock it off and that they were watching him. I think even stupid people would get a clue after that. I think he was more arrogant than anything, and yes, arrogant people deserve to go to jail too.

being that the server's are stupid for not checking

There will always be security holes, so yes, even though they should make every attempt to block every known hole, this argument fails when it is a newly discovered exploit.

Computer's don't actively seek out crackers to crack them, it is the cracker that seeks out computers to crack. Let's don't blame the computer for this problem.

I am glad to see... (1)

KrAphtd1nN3r (33859) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711888)

that most people don't automatically get a "throw the guy in jail, or just kill him for that matter" approach to the subject. It seems that past polls on such controversial subjects have produced comments I could not believe!



He might have done something stupid, but he still has rights! Still, what he did was kinda lame, and he deserves a punishment, just not a big one!

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711890)

So in other words if you happen to forget to lock the door to your abode I can feel free to walk out with your computer, tv set or anything else that catches my eye? What was your address?

Cann your home insurance and file a theft claim. And tell them you left the front door unlocked. See what they say. Sane with auto insurance companies. If you're ripped off for being stupid, they'll compensate you less, if at all. Blame is not something that rests all on you or all on the thief, but a question of who bears what percentage of the blame.

What would you expect to happen if your wife parked your new convertible Ferrari on the street in the middle of Watts and left it there over the weekend. Would you feel 100% relaxed and not worry because 'the law' says the theifs bear all of the guilt? Would you place zero blame on your wife? I wonder.

Skill is not an excuse to break the law! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711891)

Yeah, right. Charle Manson had skill, and Al Capone had skill too.
Doesn't matter if you are dumb or smart, just don't break the law!

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711893)

More like, you should check to see if your door has a lock in the first place. And if you don't bother to look to see if the windows have latches, the negligence is entirely yours.

Re:No, not really.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711894)

No kidding. Chad Davis is not a hacker in ANY sense of the word. Kevin Mitnick was an accomplished hacker, Chad Davis is just a clueless script kid with nothing better to do than change lame webpages. To compare the two is offensive.

This is the most/only interesting part for me... (1)

E-Rock (84950) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711895)

Quoted from the article:
"...like Davis, who are relatively brazen and unskilled, according to federal law enforcement officials and computer security experts.

"It is not that these are super whiz kids; it is the technology that gives them the ability to cover their tracks enough that you can have a hard time making a criminal case against them," said a senior federal investigator. "

So he didn't have any mad skills, but he walked all over government servers?! Is this an advertisment that govermnet servers have poor admins and no security?

Fix the servers!! Stop wasting my money chasing script kiddies around the internet and make the server safe from all but the truely skilled hackers.

Re:Your're right!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711896)

Since he likes the Army so much, how about two years of peeling potatoes! :-) Scrubbing the lavatory floors in the barracks is lots of fun, too. :-)

Used as an example? Oh, the poor martyr. (1)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711897)

Look, if you do something illegal, you should expect to go to jail. The first "Free Chad!!!" web banner or tag I see, I'm going to vomit.

- A.P.
--


"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

FREE * ! (1)

babyroo (63975) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711898)

Come to my website, and click on the ads to support the Free Chad cause! Also, visit my other sites:
"People for Pol Pot"
"Save the Unibomber"
"Free McVeigh"
"Heritics for Hitler"
All the money I make will go to these worthy cause, I promise!

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd"

Re:Speedy Trial (1)

magnetx (33177) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711899)

Damn, I wish I could fix the broken window on my system that is letting SPAM in.

Hear hear!!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711900)

Well said, mattc.

So another script-kiddie acts like he is god and gets caught.

Big smegging deal!

Throw him in jail with all the other criminals, and let's move on to more important / worthwhile topics.

Re:You get what you deserve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711901)

Cracker=Hacker. Get used to it punk.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (1)

Androgynous Coward (13443) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711902)

What if I just walk through your neighborhood checking each door and window to see if there's a forgotten lock or latch? Or maybe you didn't roll the window on your car all the way up and with a piece of wire I can easily get the lock open?

But I'm not evil. I wouldn't steal your car; just take it for a ride and piss in the interior before I leave.

But maybe you're careful but your family isn't. Perhaps the gas cap on your mother's car doesn't have a lock and I can pour sugar into the tank.

Think carefully about what you're saying. It's corny but in essence time is money and having to rebuild a server after compromise is expensive.

AC

Punishment should fit the crime (3)

Sun Tzu (41522) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711903)

Agreed. Violent criminals should rank higher on the FBI's lists than mere vandals, even computerized ones.

And, your suggestion for punishment is a good one, IMO. The ego-driven cracker/vandal would be appropriately punished in a way that diminishes their prestige and matches the crime.

Meanwhile, there would be room in the prisons for longer sentences for murderers and rapists... Unfortunately, those evil pot-smokers are sucking up so many cells as to make this cracker problem vanishingly small.

Re:Give the cheesehead a break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711904)

FIB!!!

just what we all need (1)

kootch (81702) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711905)

another case to make hackers look like the bad guys. I can respect people that hack sites to point out security problems and make a political stance, but hacking a site just to poster inappropriate messages on the splash page and so you can brag to your little prepubescent friends is just enough.

while the hack/non-hack of hotmail the other day was a welcome and necessary hack (I only use hotmail with PGP), this little turd who just wants the attention his parents didn't give him isn't worth the electrons that are flying at my eyes as I read what I'm posting.

He gets what he deserves (1)

Billkr (56332) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711906)

This kid is class A1 STUPID! When you are under investigation from the FBI you should not be hacking into government computers to get back at them DOH! Oh well, I guess this is an example of Darwinism. Put another criminal behind bars.

The feds just need another Rusty Scabre to rattle. (1)

mattz (82905) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711907)

...at all the script kiddies since mitnick is basically a done deal......

Re:No, not really.. (2)

toolie (22684) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711908)

I agree. Script kiddies should not be compared with anything except pond scum. What Kevin did was not right, but at least it took some intelligence to do it. Now a 9 year old who found out about the 'net a week ago can download the crap to become a script kiddie. Would they be compared to Kevin too?

Re:You get what you deserve (1)

Caball (58351) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711909)

Uh, no. This has nothing to do with what you do with your findings, it has to do with ILLEGALLY entering someone else's server. It should make no difference if you change the web site, or report your findings to the owners. Your not supposed to be there, regardless of your final intentions.


Well, I cruised through Citibanks credit card database today, but I didn't have any malicious intentions, so everything is A Okay. NOT!

Too funny (1)

Billkr (56332) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711910)

I laughed hard and then started to worry that you might be serious. Whew... no such page

Re:Give the cheesehead a break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711911)

I agree. There are very few rude, fat, smelly, ugly, obsessive people that are computer literate in WI. I'm happy to be one of them.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711912)

Don't you mean BUILD the server after comprimise?

The real cost to most of these break-ins, BECAUSE they are performed by script-kiddies, is not
the cost to REBUILD anything but the cost to
BUILD the server as it should have been build in
the first place, SECURELY.

Stay! Your wish is granted. (3)

Signal 11 (7608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711913)

Before everybody goes off with the "you get what you deserve" rant.. I would like to make a few points, and why if the government does what I think it's going to do .. it wouldn't be good for anybody.

First, defacing websites is a crime - duh. But it shouldn't be a felony to do so - it should be a misdemeanor just like the realworld equivalents of "damage to property" and "vandalism". The government is deathly afraid of a medium that it can't control - which neatly explains the outrageous legislation being passed right now.

Second, this story will get sensationalized. Again, another obvious "duh!". The media loves scaring people - and the idea of some guy involved in a hacker crime ring hell bent on overthrowing the evil capitalistic system will be raised no less than 2^32 times. Jesse Burst may even comment on it.

Third, the you're-guilty-otherwise-they-wouldn't-have-arreste d-you dogma will also come to bear in the next few hours on slashdot. May I remind you that unless you disagree with the constitution - it's guilty until proven innocent.

I would also like to point out that the "setting an example" method of enforcing laws has been proven to be ineffective. We legislated the death penalty.. and the murder rate didn't change. We took it away.. the murder rate didn't change. That is one example, but their are case studies replete with more.

So what does this accomplish? It gives law enforcement good publicity (makes them look like they're doing their job instead of snacking down donuts and violating people's civil liberties), and it gives everybody the shaft because it's one less right that you have in our legal system.

constructive criticism appreciated - flames to /dev/null.

--

Yeah right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711914)

Oh great, now we can have MORE web pages peppered with stupid "Free Kevin!" and now "Free Chad!" .gif files.

Get a life. This kid is a dork script kiddee, and Mitnick wasn't much above that. They both get what they deserve, and I"ve got no sympathy for them.

Before anyone else jumps on the 'Free whoever' bandwagon, I URGE you to read Erik Bloodaxe's final editorial in Phrack magazine. It speaks volumes about idiots like Mitnik and Chad Whazizface.

Re:Used as an example? Oh, the poor martyr. (1)

G_Love (35556) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711915)

Get a bag, then, cause some A.C. posted that already...www.freechaddavis.com. Yeah great. This kid is stupid. "hmmm, let's see, the FBI knows I'm into cracking, they've confiscated my computer once...maybe they stopped watching me!!! Yeah, that's it!". Seriously, this kid deserves a nice speedy trial by jury to get his dumb-a$$ in jail. To attack a gov't. site is inviting the FBI to come after you. Now, the gov't. shouldn't get away scott-free either. If he was truly "unskilled", it must have been the 31337 scripts that he downloaded that allowed him to crack a gov't. server, right? Try improving the security before wasting more of my tax money on prosecuting some kid who's just trying to prove he's cool too. Bah! The whole thing is stupid. And only barely comparable to the Mitnick case.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711916)

Bank Robbery Script for kiddies:
  1. Check that it is a time when banks are open.
  2. Find bank with glass front or doors. Many do, as you have noticed.
  3. Hit glass with sledgehammer.
  4. Climb in.
  5. Get into teller area, either by climbing over counter or breaking door to their area.
  6. Open cash drawer.
  7. Take cash.
  8. Leave.

If any of the steps fail, try some place else.
Obviously, this breaks several laws and someone has to clean up the resulting mess. In real life you also have several more risks which are not present in a script, but then cracker scripts also do not include the risks of getting caught nor do they tell you the penalties of attacking computers. Most crackers also have no idea of how much paid time the sysadmins will have to waste to clean up a mess, nor the bandwidth expense of their scanning.

Basically, just because you can do something does not mean that you should do it. So a vandal got caught. Good, make him pay restitution and add enough additional penalties to teach him to not do it again (merely requiring restitution just means "only break something if you can afford to pay for it if you get caught", which does not help with restitution for the things which are not proven to be due to him.

Re:Enough already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711917)

I could understand if the person had found some new and obscure bug that no one else had noticed, ok that would be minor news...
These script exploits have been around for how long, and the system administrators have not run them against their own systems to look for (and close) vulnerabilities?

I think the news here is that the Federal government is maintaining an attractive nuisance (many, actually), and is refusing to accept responsibility for mitigating its own damages. Siezing thousands of dollars of equipment (which may not even belong to the alleged criminal) and charging the perp with a felony is obscenely out of proportion to the severity of the offense, and it lets the government off the hook for maintaining the security of public computer systems. And that, my friends, stinks.

Mindphasr/gH (1)

prodeje (58779) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711918)

Heh. You get what you diserve. If you think this kid did nothing to provoke the FBI, check out some of the hacks by Global Hell (the hacking group Chad Davis was affiliated with).

http://www.attrition.org/mirror/a ttrition/gh.html [attrition.org]


...

mitnick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711919)

Mitnick had good social skills, but he was a freak show at the same time. I think the punishment he has received is harsh, but he knew what he was doing. I really have not seen anything that has impressed me from him though.

Right on! Cracking == 20 years min! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711920)

Get a FUCKING clue! Defacing a web site, like grafitti on a wall is hardly a major offence. A misdemeaner tops. But Like Mitnick, gov't will want to "make an example" of this guy he will be charged in such a way that he'll face a maximum of decades in prison, while KILLERS, RAPISTS, CHILD PORNOGRAPHERS, etc. are tried, sentenced, jailed, and back out on the street before this guy even sees a judge. But then, I guess this is all right you?

Let the punishment fit the crime. How would you punish a grafitti vandal?

Some People have to Ruin it for others (1)

JediLuke (57867) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711921)

You know how the media loves fodder to blow everything out of proportion, so the mindless masses can say "oh computers are evil"? Its people like these that help the media procreate this steriotype that the internet is a hole of fraud, trechery, and deception. But the don't see it for what it can be, the greatest information resource on the planet.
JediLuke

Re:Stay! Your wish is granted. (2)

Signal 11 (7608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711922)

Sorry, I meant to say "innocent until proven guilty". A freudian slip, perhaps?

--

We were DoS'd yesterday (1)

macdaddy (38372) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711923)

Our University mail server was DoS'd yesterday. Thanks to our NFS mounting scheme, it eventually stalled our central unix system (all new connections at least--if you were already on you were ok for the most part). From what I understand, the FBI has been notified. What does this mean to hackers? Don't fsck with someone that's bigger and badder than yourself unless you want one hell of a headache! Hackers be warned!!!

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711924)

Nope.

Private property is private property.

Stealing is theft.

Trespassing is trespassing.

There shouldn't be a need for draconian security measures, any more than people should be blamed if some drunk comes by and shouts into their bedroom window at night.

There are clear thresholds laid out. It could be as simple as a logon prompt that states you're entering a private area and do not have permission. There doesn't need to evev be a password prompt beyond that for you to be breaking the law if you proceed.

Why does this not seem obvious to all? Could it be because there are a lot of moral cripples out there on the net?

GO PACKERS!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711925)

GO PACK! SUPERBOWL !! WOOT!! FARVE KICKS ALL YO HAX0R BUTTS ps. HACK THE PLANET!

Re:He gets what he deserves (1)

Kilzall (37495) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711926)

and certainly not from his own phone. Natural selection among crackers at it's finest.

Re:why compare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711927)

Kevin Mitnick committed criminal trespass on numerous occasions. He accumulated thousands of credit card numbers.

Then he hired a smarmy lawyer when he got caught.

There is no reason to have sympathy for the little creep. It's a shame we've had to spend so much money nailing him down.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711928)

So I can throw a grenade at your house since you are the one to blame for not living in a bunker.

Think about it, we have the right to shoot people
if they are not wearing a bullet proof jacket.

Free Pol Pot ! Free the mass killers !

yawn. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711929)

The only thing lamer than all the cracking that's been going on is the over-coverage of it by our hysterical news media. I think this is a response to an utter lack of anything interesting or useful to say about the future or computer technology.

Re:Enough already (1)

Iambe (84965) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711930)

Why it sounds like actually cracking into government sites is a bad thing....


Quite frankly, I do not give a shit. A script kiddie caught. BFD

The only reason one should care about Chad Davis.. (1)

ScrappyTheObscure (82234) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711931)

Ok, so Chad Davis is no Kevin Mitnick, but by shrugging off what happens to him -- stupid insignificant grafiti-loving brat that he is, we're saying that the government should incarcerate for electronic breaking and entering as though it were the same crime as 1st degree murder.

Is electronic breaking and entering without actual destruction of data really a high crime? Chad Davis didn't cost the govt anything but its pride. He destroyed nothing, and took nothing with him when he left, just left his tag behind. He cost them system down time probably, but what else?(Correct me if I'm wrong about this one.)

Don't get me wrong, the kid IS a criminal--but I wouldn't send him to the pokie to be raped daily by violent offenders for the next 20 years of his life in the hopes that someone else will remember it and think better of cracking. People who crack IMHO will NOT care -- and the really young kids who do it will simply idealize the incident.

Re:super (1)

Exanter (2171) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711932)

Yeah, it's real cool to see a local boy in the news...
"Look Everyone!!! We's got IDIOTS here in Green Bay!!!" (technically, it was Ashwaubenon, but they're just a suburb)
Idiots abound everywhere, but usually you try to not broadcast the fact.
It almost seems as Davis has reached McCarthy status, as where he lives is always mentioned in the same breath as who he is...

Re:Let's see here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711933)

Yep, it's a conspiracy.

And we need smarmy little magazines like 2600 to inform us of that fact.

Like, get real.

So get rid of all the locks on your home... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711934)

Of course you won't. You know that there are Bad People out there. Regardless of who is as fault when a breakin occurs, you want to prevent the breaking from happening. It's why you don't flash lots of cash in bad neighborhoods. It's why you lock your car when you park it. You know that if you act st00pid and fail to modestly protect yourself that you will be victimized. Web sites are no different.

You were stupid yesterday (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711935)

Thanks to our NFS mounting scheme, it eventually stalled our central unix system

You called the FBI because you don't know how to set up NFS properly? Gimme a break.

Don't get me wrong, the person who cracked your mail server should be caught and punished, but what they did is not made any worse by your poor NFS choices.

Hackers be warned, indeed. Probably the reason they could fsck with Mr. Bigger and Badder here in the first place is that his mail server was as half-assed configured as his NFS cluster.

I love it! (3)

Fastolfe (1470) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711936)

"It is not that these are super whiz kids; it is the technology that gives them the ability to cover their tracks enough that you can have a hard time making a criminal case against them," said a senior federal investigator.

It's about time the media started relaying this crucial bit of information. These gimps are nothing more than IRC script/packet kiddies that were shown how to use a few of those l33t exploits that appear every week or two.

They're not smart (obviously in this case); they aren't "skilled members of the hacker community." They're CHILDREN that aren't supervised enough by their parents.

The kids deserve what they get, and their parents deserve to be held accountable for the monetary damages.

I mean how stupid can you be? If you're going to break into a government system, don't do it straight from your dialup account! Again, he deserved it. I have no sympathy. In fact, I just wish the number of arrests for this type of thing (including more of the DoS-type of attacks) increased by an order of magnitude.

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711937)

Do we even know the nature of the exploit yet? Yes, it could be as simple as a door left unlocked, or it could be a little more sophisticated. Granted, if you don't take a least miniumum security precautions, you have no right administering a server, but let's don't jump to conclusions yet.

Everyone knows that the only secure computer is one that is not connected to the Internet, and everyone knows that any house can be broken into, or car can be stolen, if the thief is really determined. Bottom line, this kid (although he is 19 years old, so he should know better) commited a crime and should be punished appropriately. This is definately not on the same level as murder, rape, etc... and I don't want to see prison space filled up by script kiddies while we have to release dangerous criminals. So maybe they can give him community service or something. Just get it over with quick so we don't waste too much time or money.

Re:This is the most/only interesting part for me.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711939)

ix the servers!! Stop wasting my money chasing script kiddies around the internet and make the server safe from all but the truely skilled hackers.

Why should all our tax dollars go to build a bigger cage to keep overgrown children from wandering in and breaking things?

If anything, the dollar a day labor these creeps make in prison pressing out license plates should be contributed toward "fixing the server" as you put it.

Re:Right on! Cracking == 20 years min! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711941)

Coat him in his own paint is how I would punish him. Comparing this kid to Mitnick is like comparing apples to oranges. The idiot decided to show he had brass ones and wow his friends by smacking around the army website. As someone said before Big smeggin deal

Like pissing on a police car... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711949)

...that's idling in front of a donut shop.

Stupid

script kiddie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711950)

I find it amusing and revealing how everyone feels the need to call him a script kiddie. Why do you call him a script kiddie, do you know anything about this person? Of course you don't. Is a 19 year old a kiddie? You see someone do something which you are unable to do, so you feel the need to rationalize your lack of knowledge as "oh it was just a script kiddie, he was just using scripts and knows nothing. Of course I could do that if I wanted to".

Re:just what we all need (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711951)

I can respect people that hack sites to point out security problems and make a political stance

Can you respect people who streak feces on your windshield to point out that it's possible to streak feces on your windshield? Are you gonna then spend money to build a garage or an electric fence and gate to protect your car from them? Are you going to thank them for making it necessary for you to do that?

The fact that it's possible to break the law doesn't excuse people who break the law to demonstrate that it's possible.

I always wondered what FIB meant.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711952)

I always wondered what FIB meant.?

Before anyone even says the word 'hacker'... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711953)

This is a response to the dork somewhere in the earlier posts that said "Cracker == Hacker...get over it." Before you open your big yap again, read the link below. Before you put up more stupid "Free Kevin" and "Free Chad" banners, follow this link. Scroll to the bottom. READ Erik Bloodaxe's final farewell to the -real- hacking scene. See, people like Mitnik or this Chad dork deserve what they get. They aren't hackers of ANY calibre, and they have nothing but arrogance on their side. The term "hacker" actually had some real meaning once. It didn't refer to mindless vandalism, nor did it refer to leaving racial epithets on someone's voicemail box. Here's a clue: you aren't a hacker. No one is anymore. The genre is dead for all purposes. All we have now are 'l33t h@x0r wannabes armed with scripts, stupid mottos and hugely inflated egos. Read this. Catch a glimpse of what was ONCE the hacking scene. Notice how it doesn't involved idiots like Kevin Mitnik. http://www.phrack.com/search.phtml?view&article=p4 8-2

Re:Right on! Cracking == 20 years min! (2)

Fastolfe (1470) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711954)

I didn't realized he'd already been found guilty and sentenced yet.

In the future, wait until the guy's actually been SENTENCED before you go comparing his sentence to that of other types of criminals, and remember: Just because the law provides a MAXIMUM penalty of "..." rarely means the offender will actually get that sentence.

Re:The feds just need another Rusty Scabre to ratt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711955)

Actually, since there seems to be a severe deterioration of our sense of ethics as a society, it seems it's become necessary to make an example of a few of the morally crippled people who can't tell right from wrong.

Most of us can tell the difference between right and wrong. Those who can't must either be taught, or if that proves impossible, be coralled in somewhere so they can't continue to do damage to others.

Re:No, not really.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711957)

Personally, I don't worship Mitnick, nor do I perceive him as brilliant - but he was skilled and accomplished a lot as a hacker/phreaker. Murdering and burglary can't be compared to hacking in any sense... And yes, it is a travesty to compare that idiot kid to Kevin Mitnick.

go go gadget phf!#$ (1)

joq (63625) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711960)

I personally think that anyone toying with anyone elses server should know it's illegal in any shape form or fashion, therefore it's time to pay the piper. Its cool to code/hack/etc, but when you take it to a criminal level on a constant basis or any basis for that matter, anyone in their right mind should not look at mindphsr as a martyr.

I've been on the scene for a few years and have seen people come and go and to compare criminals is petty. Has anyone forgotten that Kevin too is a criminal? He was no great hacker... Just someone who engineered info from other hackers, got caught, and every single damn hacker cried foul. All respect due to some members of global Hell which are actually cool, but mindphsr isn't someone script-kiddies worldwide should worship.

elite script kiddie sploit [antioffline.com]

Re:why compare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711962)

Kevin did not *crack* for a living. Mitnick hacked in *spite* of his living. He kept a legitimate job the entire time he was on the run - say what you will about Mitnick, but he was no thief.

Mitnick who? (1)

joq (63625) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711969)

First off you know jack from adam about Kevin...

Kevin was a very good social engineer who had 0-day skills... Now DarkDante is a different story altogether... Mitnick sucked so get over it.

Setting an example (1)

opus (543) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711970)

I agree that the "setting an example" method of enforcing laws has generally failed for violent crime/ordinary property crime, but in that case the criminals on average (a) are not particularly intelligent, and (b) don't have a potentially bright future to contrast with a life of prison and probation.

Script kiddies, on the other hand, are generally pretty intelligent kids with potentially bright futures. "Setting an example" may well work with them.

Oh, and the words "innocent" and "guilty" appear nowhere in the U.S. Constitution. :)
--

Re:Crackers: Worse than murders/rapists/molestors (1)

mochaone (59034) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711971)

Sorry. I disagree. I have no sympathy because this guy is a teenager. Our society has suffered quite a bit by coddling teenagers who break the law.

The simple fact is if we are to further this information/technology paradigm, integrity of data and systems is sacrosanct. You achieve this by prosecuting all who impede this goal. This wild west mentality where you just do as you please in the face of established law has to stop.

If you are looking for equity in law, please exhume my corpse in a 1000 years when you find it.

HTTP: Hello, anybody home? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711972)

So, has The Washington Post been slashdotted or h4x0red?

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711973)

Sites on the internet are not secure. Servers connected to the internet are not secure. If the government was reading their own damn C2 security specifications they would know that any computer with a network connection is in violation of those standards. Hacking a web site is more like defacing a newspaper headline in a public box, than it is like breaking into a bank or even shooting someone. The box _can_ be opened through legal means accessible to anyone who knows that a quarter makes the lever work. What I see happening here is that people who are smart enough to figure these things out will now be targeted, and watched, and harassed, _just_for_that_reason_ and not because they present an actual threat to anyone. National security my ass! If the pentagon's missile launch control computers were accessible through the internet and some terrorist set them off, do you think they would spend a lot of time (with whatever was left of civilization) tracking down the terrorist and punishing them? Or would they blame the Pentagon for being a bunch of idiots? Take a guess . . .

Re:This proves that people need to tighten securit (1)

Androgynous Coward (13443) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711974)

I monitor several servers and I spend too much time firing off emails to sysadmins about scanning scripts running agaminst various subnets. They don't have to crack machines for it to be a pain in the ass. If a machine is running wide open and gets cracked it's a lesson learned but one that isn't necessarily deserved.

AC

Re:Yeah right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711975)

Mitnick was persecuted, not an idiot. Chad Davis is an idiot. So is Erik Bloodaxe.

Re:just what we all need (1)

kootch (81702) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711978)

Oh, I respect them, but they should also be punished. sorry I didn't make that clear. but then again, I'd rather be warned about a security flaw by something harmless than have it bite me in the ass on something important.

Re:Let's see here... (1)

stanlee (70161) | more than 15 years ago | (#1711980)

I'm reporting your OBSCENE posting to my local literary warden. The use of the word 'smarmy' on an electronic storage and retrieval system is prohibited by USC3098.9 (classified).

You can expect your literary license to be revoked shortly. Honest, hardworking readers of Slashdot will not tolerate your public posting of trash.





Re:Green Bay Hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1711981)

ch33z h34dz?
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