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Mozilla Calls on User Community Today for Testing

ScuttleMonkey posted about 8 years ago | from the where's-my-door-prize dept.

80

lisah writes "As Mozilla prepares to release updates for its calendar applications Sunbird and Lightning, project developers are calling on the user community to participate in the final stages of testing. The Mozilla Calendar Team has proclaimed today as Test Case Writing Day and users worldwide are encouraged to participate. Mozilla developer Clint Talbert tells NewsForge that today's event is a pre-cursor to the Calendar Test Day Mozilla will hold later this month prior to the final release of version 0.3."

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Profit! (3, Interesting)

andrewman327 (635952) | about 8 years ago | (#15868306)

From TFA: "There will be a reward for the two people who write the most test cases. They will each receive a $25 gift certificate to the mozilla store.


I like the idea of having the users contribute like this. Something that I really like about Mozilla is the fact that its users are given a big voice. Not all OSS asks for so much input from non-coding users. I always look forward to new releases, too, as the organization seems to wait to release instead of rushing crap.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart! (1)

neonprimetime (528653) | about 8 years ago | (#15868602)

1. Use Mozilla
2. Write Test Cases
3. ???
4. Profit!!!

I finally know what the ??? is!!!

Re:Thank you from the bottom of my heart! (1)

freakmn (712872) | about 8 years ago | (#15868805)

Repeat as necessary?

Re:Profit! (2, Insightful)

LS (57954) | about 8 years ago | (#15868804)

As someone who's worked as a quality engineer for years, a good QA engineer gets paid something close to a good software engineer. I currently work as a software engineer, and I can honestly say that in some ways testing software is much more difficult than writing it. With the amount of money the Mozilla foundation brings in, putting aside a microscopic $50 as a prize for quality assurance is a bit of a joke. How about something a little more meaty guys?

Re:Profit! (4, Insightful)

andrewman327 (635952) | about 8 years ago | (#15869221)

I think you are missing the whole point of F/OSS. The prize is buried on the website and is not the reason that people want to do this.

Re:Profit! (1)

tshak (173364) | about 8 years ago | (#15871662)

I think you are missing the whole point of F/OSS. The prize is buried on the website and is not the reason that people want to do this.

It's not a prize if everyone recieves it regardless of merit.

Re:Profit! (1)

andrewman327 (635952) | about 8 years ago | (#15872683)

But only the top two people are receiving the prize based on their performance. I fail to understand your arguement.

Re:Profit! (1)

miruku (642921) | about 8 years ago | (#15872060)

and so are all these people [google.com] ?

Re:Profit! (1)

andrewman327 (635952) | about 8 years ago | (#15872727)

The prizes awarded are less than their fair market value. They are an added incentive, but professional coders could make more money.

Re:Profit! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868955)

>I like the idea of having the users contribute like this.

Only in open source could somebody say with a straight face that dumping a raw build onto the users and telling them to test it is a good thing.

Don't agree with what I said? Save your mod points; respond and prove me wrong.

Re:Profit! (2, Informative)

mr_mischief (456295) | about 8 years ago | (#15869620)

I have no mod points today, but MS does open betas and release candidiates too. I still remember, in fact, when the "final" release candidate for Windows98 worked perfectly with my friend's hardware, then the retail version trashed the contents of his hard drive every time he tried to install it.

QED. Do I get a cookie?

Re:Profit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15869677)

>QED. Do I get a cookie?

Sorry, no. How about a dunce cap instead?

MS at least has the excuse of incompetence. What's OSS's excuse?

Re:Profit! (1)

prisoner-of-enigma (535770) | about 8 years ago | (#15870005)

Windows98 worked perfectly with my friend's hardware, then the retail version trashed the contents of his hard drive every time he tried to install it.

Probably because he tried to install the retail version over an earlier beta or release candidate. I'd bet good money he completely violated the beta/RC instructions when it came to upgrading, and that (not some nefarious install bug from Redmond) was the cause of his woes.

RTFM. Live it, learn it, love it.

Re:Profit! (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | about 8 years ago | (#15873043)

Actually, it boiled down to a change in the driver for his SCSI drive controller. The final RC installed just fine both fresh as the initial OS and as an upgrade under all his testing. The retail copy trashed the drive under any circumstances until he got a driver from the hardware manufacturer.

Re:Profit! (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | about 8 years ago | (#15869057)

Sweet, how many copies of Mozilla could I buy with that?

Too late (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868362)

My aunt Tilly is a subscriber, got the news early, and went into hiding before I could start on my test case :(

Re-neter all your dates again, I suppose (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868397)

I know it's only alpha so I shouldn't complain, but every time they release a new version, I have to enter all my dates again because they've changed the storage format again. I don't suppose this time will be any diferent. I've got a lot of history that I don't want to lose. I think I'll stick with v2 until they relese 1.0.

Re:Re-neter all your dates again, I suppose (2, Interesting)

yaphadam097 (670358) | about 8 years ago | (#15868649)

I've had the same problem, which is why I started using Yahoo calendar and now Google calendar instead. Still, I am hopeful that the final release will meet my needs better than these do (Though the advantage of having a calendar available on any browser is significant.)

Re:Re-neter all your dates again, I suppose (1)

CRCulver (715279) | about 8 years ago | (#15870655)

I've using the Calendar extension, and it's very easy to Export one's dates to a file that can then be brought into another app with Import.

Lots of Calendar news lately (4, Informative)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | about 8 years ago | (#15868427)

Lightning supports CalDAV [isoc.org] for sharing calendar information. Apple announced yesterday that Leopard iCal Server and the iCal application will both talk CalDAV, they released the server at http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration [macosforge.org] . Bedework [bedework.org] is making a lot of progress as an institutional calendar server.

Oracle has a CalDAV stack. IBM has some stuff in the works as well.

It looks like exchange will have a fight on its hands very soon.

I've been helping on a CalDAV plugin for Outlook called Open Connector [openconnector.org] , which allows Outlook to take to CalDAV servers like Apple's and Bedework. We always need help, if you have a lot of experience developing COM apps in C++, come help out.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

morie (227571) | about 8 years ago | (#15868490)

Will Open Connector allow for synchronisation as well or will it only provide import/export? i.e. can I synchronise my work calender (which uses Outlook/Exchange) to a second server and sync that one with my own PC/phone/PDA/whatever?

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (2, Interesting)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | about 8 years ago | (#15868916)

Will Open Connector allow for synchronisation as well or will it only provide import/export?

It does allow you to view/modify events on a CalDAV server in Outlook as if it were on an Exchange server.

i.e. can I synchronise my work calender (which uses Outlook/Exchange) to a second server and sync that one with my own PC/phone/PDA/whatever?

That's the plan, though things are buggy still. We haven't completed sharing, though individual calendars work.

The connector is different from import/export filters. It's replaces Outlook's local message store and transport storage layers entirely with its own implementation that supports CalDAV. This is basically the approach Lotus, etc. take to provide Outlook access to their servers.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

morie (227571) | about 8 years ago | (#15872039)

Sorry, offtopic but I am just curious:

If Open Connector replaces the local message store and transport layers, will it also make it impossible to use Exchange and CalDAV server alternately? In order to achieve synchronisation between calendars on an exchange server and calendars on a CalDAV server, something has to support both at the same time or at least alternately. (I am not experienced with Lotus, so I don't know how this stuff works there).

Or is the own implementation still supporting Exchange as well?

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

Nurgled (63197) | about 8 years ago | (#15872457)

If your goal is simply to replicate data from an Exchange server in a CalDAV server, I can't help but think it'd make more sense to simply provide a proxy that talks CalDAV on one end and Exchange on the other end and translates the data direct from the source. Certainly less troublesome than constant two-way syncing, especially if that syncing is done on the client.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

morie (227571) | about 8 years ago | (#15872656)

True if you are a network administrator. However, I am not. I can install plugins but I doubt I can get another connection to the Exchange server than the company provided Outlook.

I agree that your option would be ideal if I could get it set up properly...

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

morie (227571) | about 8 years ago | (#15872666)

To fast on the submit button:

I do not only wish to replicate one way, I need the two to be sync'ed. So a entry made at a client should appear at the secretary and an appointment made by the secretary should appear on my pda/phone

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868550)

Mac OS X iCal already does WebDAV - you can configure Apache with WebDAV support, and publish iCal calendars to it. They show up on the server as .ics files.

I take it that CalDAV merely ensures that the published calendar data is in a common form?

Does this Mozilla software already talk to WebDAV calendar stores - can it read current Apple iCal calendars published via WebDAV?

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (2, Interesting)

mrchaotica (681592) | about 8 years ago | (#15868612)

I would guess that "CalDAV" is shorthand for "WebDAV serving iCal-format files."

Does this Mozilla software already talk to WebDAV calendar stores - can it read current Apple iCal calendars published via WebDAV?

Yes

By the way, iCal isn't an Apple format; although it was invented there, it's been submitted as a standard IIRC.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (2, Informative)

laffer1 (701823) | about 8 years ago | (#15868724)

Apple's calendaring server site says that you must have iCal from 10.5 seed to use it. I'm guessing there is something different with caldav vs the old system of just throwing up ical files via webdav.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (4, Informative)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | about 8 years ago | (#15868972)

I'm guessing there is something different with caldav vs the old system of just throwing up ical files via webdav.

Yes. The old system wasn't really a standard. Eg. How can the client figure out your free/busy time? Or how should the files be name? etc.

CalDAV specifies storage, and also the reporting of the stored calendar data. So the calendar client can ask 'What events happen between th 10th and 14th?' or a query for appointments in the month of June, etc. without downloading an entire folder of *.ics files.

The situation is much improved.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (4, Informative)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | about 8 years ago | (#15868848)

By the way, iCal isn't an Apple format; although it was invented there, it's been submitted as a standard IIRC.

I don't think so. iCal, ie. iCalendar is RFC 2445. Microsoft and Lotus employees are listed as principals on that one. That became a standard in '98.

What Apple did, unfortunately, is choose the iCal name for their application. A name most people used to refer to the files conforming to RFC 2445 and others.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (2, Interesting)

n4t3 (266019) | about 8 years ago | (#15870822)

Isn't it more unfortunate that it took Microsoft almost 10 years (Outlook 2007) to fully support that standard, when as you correctly point out a Microsoft employee is listed as one of it's principal creators?

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15871185)

Apple didn't invent the iCal format, Lotus and Microsoft did. All Apple tried to do was hijack it by naming their application after it. Its time fanbois got their fact straight!

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (1)

generic-man (33649) | about 8 years ago | (#15869905)

I was under the impression that CalDAV provided two-way synchronization of calendars, something the present version of iCal does not support: you can publish a calendar and subscribe to another calendar, but you cannot push and subscribe to the same calendar. iSync doesn't integrate with any of the popular JavaScript calendar applications and I haven't found any that support CalDAV (yet).

Two-way sync with a web calendar would be an ideal situation, much like IMAP allows synchronization with webmail and local mail clients. I can't wait.

Re:Lots of Calendar news lately (2, Informative)

Albanach (527650) | about 8 years ago | (#15868696)

I've been using the Outlook 2003 remote calendars [sourceforge.net] plugin which is effective in allowing you to share your calendar on Outlook with Thunderbird / Evolution etc.

Just out of interest... (3, Interesting)

Yuioup (452151) | about 8 years ago | (#15868499)

Is Mozilla going to incorporate automated testing into the project?

Y

Excellent testing model (3, Interesting)

jhfry (829244) | about 8 years ago | (#15868519)

Who better to test something then those who will use it. Now of course there are betas and automatic reporting that also help... but there is nothing like the developers asking their users for feedback in a very humble way like this.

It's their way of saying, our software is probably full of holes but with your help we can make it better.

MS tried that with XP and their error reporting feature. From what I understand, their success was amazing with that tool... however I never felt someone say that they felt appreciated for submiting their error reports.

Gotta love companies who realize that it's the users not the software that make their product great. Give users what they want, make them feel like they are appreciated, and most of all respect them; keys to any truely great software (or any other product for that matter). Now if only we could get the RIAA and the rest of the media companies bent on making fair use mean fairly usable to understand what customers want.

Where do I sign up... (2, Funny)

XanC (644172) | about 8 years ago | (#15868531)

...to test Firefox for massive memory leaks and general instability on Linux?

Re:Where do I sign up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868746)

Add to that zero KDE integration. Thank God there's Konqueror.

Funny, zero KDE integration was my favorite thing (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | about 8 years ago | (#15870177)

about Firefox.

Re:Funny, zero KDE integration was my favorite thi (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | about 8 years ago | (#15870758)

Of course. It's wonderful Firefox works like shit in one of the two major UNIX desktops. Say what you will about Windows, but there this has been a non-issue for years.

Re:Where do I sign up... (2, Insightful)

Talchas (954795) | about 8 years ago | (#15868984)

Hmm, memory leakiness yes, but I've never had instability under Linux except occasionally with excessive Flash (which is easily fixed by using one of the click-to-play extensions).

Re:Where do I sign up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15869017)

Oh that one is well known:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.mspx [microsoft.com]

Please make sure to update your "Genuine Advantage" first.

Now go away or learn what an "extension" is and why it MAY need to be updated.
 

Re:Where do I sign up... (0)

Leffe (686621) | about 8 years ago | (#15869865)

Recent stable versions (yesterday's nightly trunk build, for example) of Firefox have fixed the noticeable memory leaks. I haven't noticed any instability in any version however.

Re:Where do I sign up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15870769)

NIGHTLY VERSIONS ARE NOT STABLE.

(Posted anonymously so I can also mod you down.)

My test case... (2, Insightful)

Duncan3 (10537) | about 8 years ago | (#15868568)

Use and more specificly write _valid_ RFC 2445 compliant (aka iCal) files. Last I checked, Sunbird kinda made up it's own almost-close format, making it's own little walled garden.

And didn't they ditch iCal support in .3 in favor of their own custom format someone decided was cooler? Some of us actually use and crosslink the files from our calendar program, phpicalendar, email etc, and this was a rather fatal mistake by the Mozillians that made it useless.

Good thing every other mail/calendaring program on the planet now supports the format, correctly usually, and stores things in it. I'm afraid in this case the open source solution is light years behind Apple (no surprise) and even Microsoft (they arent even trying).

Re:My test case... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15869430)

I see three completely valid criticisms on this page, each of which is marked as TROLL. Frankly, people who mod this way are a really destructive force
on this site. As a passionate open source advocate I think you narrow minded wannabe fanboys are an embarrasment.

If I wrote the slashdot code I would make one addition, anybody who moderates a post as troll, which later scores above +4 after meta moderation, should get all their mod points dropped for 3 months.

It's vindictive.
It's crass.
It reflects badly on the rest of us who have a brain.
Please, get a life you tedious bores.

Re:My test case... (1)

synopsis5 (515684) | about 8 years ago | (#15870191)

Sunbird and Lightning never ditched the iCal support (.ics files) in favor of a custom format.

What they did, was to change the internal storage format from .ics to a SQLite SQL database (which is Open Source of course) for performance reasons since .ics files were never meant for local storage purposes.
Before the switch to SQLite Sunbird/Lightning would become awfully slow or even unusable with larger .ics files (files with a few hundred events and/or tasks). Since a lot of users complained about this, the developers reacted and switched to format, which is evidently better suited for local storage purposes.

Sunbird/Lightning still works with external .ics files on a WebDAV or a FTP server and will do so in the future. With a workaround you can also still work with .ics files locally, if that is your desire.

Re:My test case... (2, Interesting)

littlematt (225419) | about 8 years ago | (#15871252)

> Sunbird and Lightning never ditched the iCal support (.ics files) in favor of a custom format.
True. Go to File > Export... and look! It's trying to save as an .ics file!

> What they did, was to change the internal storage format from .ics to a SQLite...database...for performance reasons...
Performance wasn't the only reason for the switch. In fact, in some particular situations, the SQLite backend is actually slower than 0.2's .ics backend. However when manipulating files with hundreds or thousands of events, SQLite beats the pants off of .ics. In addition, we wanted to be able to support calendar stores and servers (such as CalDAV and WCAP) that have features which can't necessarily be expressed in .ics (at least without doing a lot of ugly X-MOZ-WHIZBANGFEATURE stuff), and by using SQLite we are free to do that.

-lilmatt

Test Case On Windows XP (-1, Troll)

IflyRC (956454) | about 8 years ago | (#15868589)

Start up Mozilla

Right click on task bar

Select "Task Manager"

Find Mozilla process

Is it using 25% of my RAM?

Re:Test Case On Windows XP (1)

MrPink2U (633607) | about 8 years ago | (#15868740)

No, it's only using 100MB and I have 1GB. That's only 10%. Test passed.

SHIP IT!

do you really want 'users' writing test cases? (1)

rhyre417 (919946) | about 8 years ago | (#15868609)

Sounds like a job for a business analyst, IMO.

Re:do you really want 'users' writing test cases? (1)

guaigean (867316) | about 8 years ago | (#15868689)

Who better to write test cases than the people using it? Having an analyst go in and test certain cases which they feel are important is not going to take the perspective of the average user. By welcoming the input of a wide variety of skill levels, they can learn how to better tailor the Mozilla products to a broad user base, not what a business analyst comes up with. The reason MBA's are seen as so necessary is because they come up with tasks that make them look necessary. Cut out the BS, and just go straight to the people actually using the product. It'll save everyone a lot of time and pain.

Hey firefox developers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868682)

These issues are for my installation, but I've seen them on other computers too and you never fixed them!

How come PDFs don't load properly? On some computers they load properly, not on mine. It crashes Firefox. Hard. PDFs great in IE though.

Home come the newest verison of Shockwave(or Flash?) doesn't work properly in Firefox? I've never seen an installation of Firefox that properly uses the newest version of Shockwave (Flash?). Again, works great in IE.

Re:Hey firefox developers (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | about 8 years ago | (#15868780)

How come PDFs don't load properly? On some computers they load properly, not on mine. It crashes Firefox. Hard. PDFs great in IE though.

Home come the newest verison of Shockwave(or Flash?) doesn't work properly in Firefox? I've never seen an installation of Firefox that properly uses the newest version of Shockwave (Flash?). Again, works great in IE.

I'm sure you're aware that neither of these issues are anything that the Firefox team can do anything about. You should be addressing your complaints and bug reports to the developers of the plugins that implement those functions. That'd be Adobe, right?

Re:Hey firefox developers (1)

MrCopilot (871878) | about 8 years ago | (#15869053)

How come PDFs don't load properly? On some computers they load properly, not on mine. It crashes Firefox. Hard. PDFs great in IE though.

I'm sure you're aware that neither of these issues are anything that the Firefox team can do anything about. You should be addressing your complaints and bug reports to the developers of the plugins that implement those functions. That'd be Adobe, right?

Or he could be requesting native pdf support without adobe's plugin. via gs code or similar. I'd like to second that.

He also might try making Adobe open outside of Firefox for Pdf files. Also http://www.snapfiles.com/get/pdfspeedup.html [snapfiles.com] check this app out.

Re:Hey firefox developers (1)

jsoderba (105512) | about 8 years ago | (#15888300)

I don't know why people want to read PDFs in the browser in the first place. My windows browser loads Foxit [foxitsoftware.com] to display PDFs and on Linux the browser loads Evince (the Gnome document viewer). PDFs are hard enough to navigate without having to deal with the limitations of plugins.

Re:Hey firefox developers (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15869052)

(types about:plugins in Firefox)

Shockwave Flash 8.0 r22
Adobe Acrobat Plug-In Version 7.00 for Netscape

Works for me, sounds like your chair-to-keyboard interface is broken.

Not so interested (4, Insightful)

bogie (31020) | about 8 years ago | (#15868707)

IMHO the ship has passed and everyone who was interested in a calendaring solution from Mozilla moved on to something else years ago because they got tired of waiting. The project has just sat for too long without gaining any traction. Vista's calendar will end up taking over for Windows users and I don't see many Ical users jumping ship. Of course *nix users have several of these programs to choose from. Business users will continue to stick with Outlook. I've been a Moz booster for many years now but I simply just can't get excited about this project.

Re:Not so interested (4, Interesting)

SilentTristero (99253) | about 8 years ago | (#15869234)

> Business users will continue to stick with Outlook

Don't be so sure. We're a small mostly-Windows shop (Win/Linux/Mac for developers, Windows for the admin/sales/mktg folks) and we have no M$ servers. Linux-based mail/dns/fileserver infrastructure. Everyone uses Tbird/Ffox, no IE. Outlook doesn't really play well into that kind of environment; so we REALLY need shareable calendars. Right now Chandler & Sunbird aren't far enough along for real business use (at least not a couple of months ago); even event notification was unreliable in Sunbird. iCal is OK but Mac-only. Vista for us is a far-off upgrade.

So at least some of us are very interested in recent Chandler and Sunbird progress.

Re:Not so interested (1)

TheViewFromTheGround (607422) | about 8 years ago | (#15869286)

Yup, I agree. I couldn't guess the size of this market, but definitely small businesses and orgs who have gone the FF/Tbird on Windows desktops and Linux-for-servers route could really use such a solution -- Vista is definitely a long way off for a lot of small businesses.

Re:Not so interested (1)

fyrestrtr (753958) | about 8 years ago | (#15871921)

We had a similar issue. We are a small organization, 15 workstations plus a few Mac and Linux machines. There is one Windows server, but its hardly used for anything. We use Scalix [scalix.com] as an exchange replacement, and it works really well for us (especially since we can use the community edition because of the number of users). I would suggest you atleast give it a look, it has calendaring, shared folders, free busy, delegation, etc -- plus, its based on many open source tools that you might be familiar with (sendmail) and integrates with many others (spamassasin, clamav). I was skeptical at first about it, but after giving it a test run, it really surprised me. It isn't without its bugs, but they have a great community and feedback process. FWIW :)

I am skeptical... (4, Insightful)

rjstegbauer (845926) | about 8 years ago | (#15868716)

Something tells me that users should not be writing test cases.

I know I don't want my users doing that for my code.

Besides, whatever happened to "Test First"?

Enjoy, Randy.

Re:I am skeptical... (1)

cyborg_zx (893396) | about 8 years ago | (#15869032)

It's far too late for that. Well at least it's highly unlikely since you'll need a huge amount of work just to get all the unit tests done for the current code.

Re:I am skeptical... (4, Insightful)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | about 8 years ago | (#15869187)

Something tells me that users should not be writing test cases.

Yeah, you're right. Those users, they don't know how the application should be used.

Re:I am skeptical... (1)

rjstegbauer (845926) | about 8 years ago | (#15873151)

HEY! Are you being sarcastic? :-)

I think what you are saying is that users should be involved while writing the *Requirements* and *Use Cases*.

--
Sorry I don't have a sig.
Randy.

Not me... (3, Interesting)

NineNine (235196) | about 8 years ago | (#15868754)

Last time I tried a Sunbird supposedly beta release, it was so buggy that is just wasn't useable (at all). It would lose data, scramble it around, crash randomly, use 100% of my processor, etc. I was permanently scared away from Sunbird if that's what they called a beta. I would've loved to use Sunbird, but that was a long time ago, and we've since moved onto Outlook because we 1. were tired of waiting and 2. didn't have anything remotely useable in the meantime.

Re:Not me... (1)

l0b0 (803611) | about 8 years ago | (#15872245)

Sunbird is AFAIK still in alpha, which means it will break completely for some users, and most likely show bugs for all users. I've been running 0.3 alpha 1 & 2, and I'm impressed with the stability & usability of a product so far away from 1.0. Now if only they could use a non-binary format, so I can start CVS-ing my calendar...

build system (2, Insightful)

Hard_Code (49548) | about 8 years ago | (#15868796)

I would like to get involved with Mozilla/Firefox and in a couple of cases have earnestly tried, checking out the gigantic repository, and reading up on XPCOM and trying out samples, but the checkout/build procedure is just so teeth gnashingly horrendous, I eventually just run away screaming. Some goes for OpenOffice.

Sunbird is still completely useless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15868954)

as is google calendar. SYNC WITH PALM OR GET THE FUCK OUT it's pretty simple

Does it have?? (1)

fury88 (905473) | about 8 years ago | (#15869185)

Does it implement the email reminder? If so, PASSED!

Google Calendar (1)

nytes (231372) | about 8 years ago | (#15869647)

IIRC, last time I tried to load my GooCal calendar into Sunbird, Sunbird went kinda' wonky. I believe it had something to do with all day events. That and/or the times shifted.

I think it may have been Google's different interpretation of the iCal spec, like failing to put an end date on the event, but was something that could easily be detected and corrected for on the input side.

It pretty much made me stick with just GooCal.

Re:Google Calendar (3, Funny)

generic-man (33649) | about 8 years ago | (#15869949)

This just in: synchronizing a beta web service [google.com] and an alpha calendaring program [mozilla.org] causes problems.

Re:Google Calendar (1)

nytes (231372) | about 8 years ago | (#15870163)

LOL. Good call.

I have a feeling that, a year from now, we'll be waiting breathlessly as one or both actually begins to approach version 1.0.

No Mobile Sync, Not interested (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15869801)

nuff said. They are as bad as MSFT, out of touch with their customers.

(plus one I:nfor8ative) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15870279)

told 8eporters,

Mozilla "non flagship" products need a test plan (1)

mazphil57 (792004) | about 8 years ago | (#15871030)

Sunbird/Lightning for Linux x86 have had a critical bug -- cannot click on 'recipients' field. Retested with last nights builds, bug still there. The product is basically useless with this bug.

Similarly, current Xulrunner 1.9 nightly builds run very slow -- need to revert to the version from Sept. 2005. Xulrunner is relevant because to help with Sunbird you need to know XUL. Learning XUL, you cannot even find a "Hello World" program to get started, instead the tutorials at xulplanet.com try to wow you with all the features in XUL (if you could _just_ get your first "Hello World" program working!). I had to work backwards from a "pacman" game (the only program I could find that actually had the three components JavaScript, CSS, and XUL working), to produce my own "Hello World" program. You can do some amazing things with XUL at that point. Mozdev actually has a program "Exch" in its "XUL hall of fame" that the author couldn't get the CSS working on due to their convoluted, poorly documented, and constantly changing "Chrome://", overlays, skins, etc.

The various Mozilla components share lots of code, and I see things like "Firefox and Thunderbird (and presumably Sunbird/Lightning) will run as Xulrunner applications once Xulrunner reaches 1.0" (1.9 ?> 1.0). Seems like that plan was abandoned, and the current xulrunner nightly build is barely running.

To summarize, it seems the entire Mozilla development process needs review to see why major components apparently have no simple test cases/documentation and the community is being asked to do a bug hunt on a non-working product.

Mozilla officially sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15871206)

Move on to Opera or IE7 on the PC, Safari 2+ on the MAC.

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