Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple vs Microsoft- Who's the Copycat?

CmdrTaco posted about 8 years ago | from the does-it-really-matter dept.

683

torrensmith writes "Paul Thurrott attacks the Apple Mac OS X Leopard Preview. He does have a few kind words for Apple and its leader Steve Jobs ("They do good work. It's too bad they feel the need to exaggerate so much.", but overall, he rips apart Apple for mimicking Vista, even going so far as to call the Apple fascination with Vista "childish." Paul does include a healthy review of the latest Leopard features, but quickly returned to his bashing of Apple. "

cancel ×

683 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Mocking? (5, Insightful)

anjin-san 3 (983912) | about 8 years ago | (#15882728)

I think the headline should say "mocking" instead of "mimicking"

Re:Mocking? (1, Offtopic)

kwieland in stl (830615) | about 8 years ago | (#15882780)

Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.

Re:Mocking? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883030)

Haha, you witty slacker you. You are truly teh funnay, if I may say so.

This serious allegation will be responded to by a mob of Apple-zealots angrily waving their intimidatingly miniscule penises.

This Paul Thurrott guy is a true genius in getting the ADD-ridden Apple-zealots giddy.

Re:Mocking? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882967)

I think your comment should say "summary" instead of "headline".

Agreed (0, Redundant)

Enoxice (993945) | about 8 years ago | (#15882745)

I agree that Apple's fascination with Vista is childish. The posters claiming Leopard to be "Vista 2.0", and endless claims about MS copying them. Bah. Apple could really be very good; it's a shame they have to be such elitists.

But isn't your reputation at stake? (2, Insightful)

Petskull (650178) | about 8 years ago | (#15882829)

I'd say that a company being focused intently on its competitors is a staple of business, isn't it? That having been said- I would imagine that a company who is so famous for their ~vision~ would need more than anything that the public accept their products as original and innovative.

Re:But isn't your reputation at stake? (4, Insightful)

rainman_bc (735332) | about 8 years ago | (#15883155)

I'd say that a company being focused intently on its competitors is a staple of business, isn't it?

No, a company who copies instead of innovates is problematic.

Look, Apple takes good ideas from Microsoft and vice versa. And while we're at it, anyone seen all the stuff in xgl? Looks like that was copied much of all from Apple.

A good idea is a good idea. Microsoft has had some, Apple's had more, and sometimes the Linux world has them too... It's really silly to finger one as a copy cat when they all do it.

Re:Agreed (4, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | about 8 years ago | (#15882830)

It's called marketing. Besides it plays into peoples perceptions of MS products. Even people who don't know why they should dislike Windows say they do because it's expected, Apples campaigns simply play into that.

Re:Agreed (1)

mrxak (727974) | about 8 years ago | (#15882898)

It's all in good fun. It keeps an otherwise dull work-oriented conference more light-hearted.

Re:Agreed (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882908)

Apple is a business trying to compete in a market dominated by a single organization with a 95% market share. Of course Apple is going to compare their operating system to Vista. It doesn't even really make sense to do otherwise. And a good way of attracting people is to flaunt your system's superiority. I don't really see it as elitism.

Re:Agreed (1, Flamebait)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | about 8 years ago | (#15883137)

How is this different from "Windows 95 = Mac '86"?

Well, take from both! (-1)

Cybert4 (994278) | about 8 years ago | (#15882746)

Microsoft just released the Intel OS X Windows Movie player. Microsoft has had a long relationship making applications for the Macintosh. If they want to fight, that's fine. Just take what you need.

Re:Well, take from both! (2, Insightful)

HTTP Error 403 403.9 (628865) | about 8 years ago | (#15882977)

Microsoft just released the Intel OS X Windows Movie player. Microsoft has had a long relationship making applications for the Macintosh. If they want to fight, that's fine. Just take what you need.
Do you have a link for this "Intel OS X Windows Movie player"? I searched the Microsoft website for Mac Windows Media Player and all I got was a link to download a nearly three year old version 9 player, a note that they are no longer updating or supporting the application for the Mac and a link to a third party media player.

Re:Well, take from both! (1)

richdun (672214) | about 8 years ago | (#15883041)

WMP for Mac is dead.

Office for Mac is neutered in the next iteration (no VB).

MS won't be necessary for Mac much longer, especially if iWork '07 has a good spreadsheet.

Re:Well, take from both! (1)

Cybert4 (994278) | about 8 years ago | (#15883157)

It's the components for QuickTime. I don't think they make the standalone player anymore.

Re:Well, take from both! (2, Interesting)

JoeCommodore (567479) | about 8 years ago | (#15883069)

Microsoft has had a long relationship making applications for the Macintosh

Internet Explorer

Outlook

Project

Visual Fox Pro

Maintining them for the Macintosh, well, that's another issue

Re:Well, take from both! (3, Informative)

outZider (165286) | about 8 years ago | (#15883115)

Nope. A third party created a QuickTime plugin that plays Windows Media files better than the Mac player. They just released an Intel version of this plugin.

Microsoft has released nothing to date that is a Universal Binary. They are currently promising a universal version of Messenger 6.0 later this year, and a free universal version of Remote Desktop Client. There isn't a date set on the next version of Office. Virtual PC and Windows Media Player for Mac have been cancelled.

It is apparently a Windows Fanboy site, what do yo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882747)

u expect?

Re:It is apparently a Windows Fanboy site, what do (1)

mrxak (727974) | about 8 years ago | (#15882978)

Well it's not so bad. He made some valid points, the keynote was relatively sparce in information. But that's largely because so much of the new stuff is only being revealed behind closed doors with NDAs being signed and whatnot. It's a developer conference, and Leopard is still a ways off from release.

Here We Go Again... (-1, Redundant)

nbannerman (974715) | about 8 years ago | (#15882749)

Well known Microsoft supporter has a few bad words to say about Apple.

Ok, so which part of 'News for Nerds' does this come under?

Now, if he'd have said Leopard was the way forward, *that* would be news.

Re:Here We Go Again... (3, Informative)

truthsearch (249536) | about 8 years ago | (#15882802)

Ok, so which part of 'News for Nerds' does this come under?

from the does-it-really-matter dept.

(Really.)

Re:Here We Go Again... (0)

GundamFan (848341) | about 8 years ago | (#15882860)

Meh... the only thing I have ever actualy used on his site was the slipstreaming guide (quite good compared to others I have seen). Paul's site seems to be getting less and less relivant to the working Microsoft product support technitian (Or at least this is true for me0.

Re:Here We Go Again... (5, Insightful)

Golias (176380) | about 8 years ago | (#15883032)

Well known Microsoft supporter has a few bad words to say about Apple.

Ok, so which part of 'News for Nerds' does this come under?


apple.slashdot.com, where all stories are either spiteful media bias by trolls who want to get their hit-count up by groundlessly bashing Apple, or slavish fanboy posts by "Reality Distortion Field" victims who are lining up to drink poisoned Flavorade.

If you try to write a balanced story or comment about Apple, you will be accused of being both.

The facts:

Microsoft has frequently bought, borrowed or stolen all kinds of UI concepts from Apple, but generally doesn't do as good a job at implementing them for some reason. They have some very bright programming minds at Microsoft, but for some reason they are (and pretty much always have been) famously weak on design concepts.

Apple has turned around and taken a few UI tools from Microsoft as well (most notably contextual "right-click" menus, and the schedule integration they are rolling into the next version of Mail.app), mainly for the sake of meeting the expectations of OS "switchers."

My broad generalization of the trend:

When Microsoft takes from Apple, it's because Apple came up with a great idea. When Apple takes from Microsoft, it's because Microsoft has pushed a new industry standard on the market.

Re:Here We Go Again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883147)

I must not be on Slashdot. Even if it isn't true (I don't know), that was the best written, well-reasoned post I've ever read here. Kudos!

"OK, Paul" (2, Funny)

6OOOOO (600000) | about 8 years ago | (#15882759)

Until Vista actually comes out, these comments amount to not much more than so many farts in a steady breeze.

Re:"OK, Paul" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882794)

Was that you? Go outside next time you do that.

Re:"OK, Paul" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882868)

Fuck that. When you fart, the shockwave should open the windows for you.

Re:"OK, Paul" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883049)

Someone didn't read the article.

Re:"OK, Paul" (1)

6OOOOO (600000) | about 8 years ago | (#15883112)

A brave admission of guilt, friend.

OS X is out now. Leopard is a point release.

Vista, on the other hand...

Who Cares About Copying Useful Features? (5, Insightful)

MankyD (567984) | about 8 years ago | (#15882762)

I don't give a damn who's copying who. If the features are useful and functional, then kudos to any developer of any system, (not even limiting myself to software here,) who adds those features to their system.

note: I am not a Mac user nor even a Windows user anymore.

Re:Who Cares About Copying Useful Features? (0, Offtopic)

Punboy (737239) | about 8 years ago | (#15882823)

Careful, Gates calls people with ideas like yours "Terrorists."

But I agree.

My name is Aaron Krill, and I use Linux.

Re:Who Cares About Copying Useful Features? (1)

twofidyKidd (615722) | about 8 years ago | (#15882971)

Congratulations, Aaron. You just made it onto next month's no-fly list! It's a veritable who's-who of international terrorists and United State Senators [washingtonpost.com] alike! Keep up the good work.

Re:Who Cares About Copying Useful Features? (1)

jrothwell97 (968062) | about 8 years ago | (#15882858)

Well, if copycats weren't allowed, we wouldn't have the GUI as we know it today. Windows would not exist. (That's not necessarily a bad thing...)

Bashing? (3, Informative)

Sarusa (104047) | about 8 years ago | (#15882784)

I didn't see any bashing in here. All his points are well taken as he swats Microsoft or Apple appropriately. They both steal whatever they think is best - the huge difference being that Apple can actually deliver something on a reasonable time schedule.

Of course if you're one of Steve's Commandos type of Mac owners I can see where this article is Pearl Harbor all over again, especially where he alludes to the RDF.

Re:Bashing? (5, Funny)

MrSquirrel (976630) | about 8 years ago | (#15882835)

Apple hasn't stolen Clippy yet. Well, I'm sure they've taken him, but they can't perfect him... it's just so goddamn hard to make something THAT annoying.

Re:Bashing? (1)

zlogic (892404) | about 8 years ago | (#15882849)

Of course if you're one of Steve's Commandos type of Mac owners I can see where this article is Pearl Harbor all over again, especially where he alludes to the RDF.
Which Steve, Ballmer or Jobs?

Re:Bashing? (1)

mrxak (727974) | about 8 years ago | (#15882946)

...or The Woz? Funny just how many Steves went into the computer business, really.

Re:Bashing? (1)

jhackworth (958910) | about 8 years ago | (#15883084)

"the huge difference being that Apple can actually deliver something on a reasonable time schedule."

- maybe so, but Microsoft, especially for Vista, is actually interested in the feedback they're getting from different communities (users, security, IT). Also, Apple's hardware test matrix is a bit simpler - Apple OS on Apple machines.

excuse me but... (0, Flamebait)

top_iguana (982456) | about 8 years ago | (#15882791)

Them is both copies of window managers for linux, period.

Re:excuse me but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882831)

NeXT was out long before most, if not all, Linux window managers.

Re:excuse me but... (1)

zlogic (892404) | about 8 years ago | (#15882876)

Exposé was copied to Linux in the form of Komposé.

More to come (2, Insightful)

Chaos750 (854562) | about 8 years ago | (#15882806)

Sure, the features shown at WWDC were a bit underwhelming for us "ordinary folk." Although I do think that Time Machine looks amazing. There's going to be more, just be patient. Apple's not going to give away all the good stuff when there's still half a year until it's released.

Re:More to come (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882924)

Wow, I think that is the definition of a fanboy.

Accepting a negative idea (and quoting "ordinary folk," as a reference to smack technophiles, which the WWDC is made for), then immediately turning it around to pro-company (Apple in this case), then eluding to things he has no idea about.

For all we know, they could announce a free inclusion of Microsoft Word, or their next "major" feature could be Mac Notepad (and there would be numerous posts about how innovative it is, or how someone is copying them). The point is that we do not know, and the OP does not know. Please do not rate his post higher for his seemingly generous optimism.

Re:More to come (2, Interesting)

Chaos750 (854562) | about 8 years ago | (#15883100)

Exactly! The WWDC is for developers/technophiles! Quite frankly, the next version of XCode and the ability to add animations to applications is not going to excite anyone but a developer. I'm not saying it's not important, they're just announcing things that are important to their audience -- which at the time was developers. I'm just saying that there's no point in bashing Apple for a "lackluster" presentation this early in the game. Has Apple given anyone a reason to think that they're suddenly done adding new, exciting things to their OS? Then why are we assuming that now?

They were probably intended to. (5, Interesting)

Trillan (597339) | about 8 years ago | (#15882972)

The features shown at WWDC were generally features developers want, and hints at the technology under them:

  • Time Machine will be a huge aid to developers. It will be even more awesome if there's a way to integrate it with source control systems.
  • A good Mac OS X solution for virtual desktops are all but lusted after by many developers.
  • Core Animation is bigger than big.
  • The new system voice was a kick in the pants for developers that haven't added voice over support yet, and the hints at new navigation methods are also important since it means adding the metadata to the interface that Apple has been asking for.
  • Dashcode and Webclip are hints at what sort of widgets developers should be working on.
  • The new iChat and Mail features are hugely important to mid-scale collaborative development.

(I'm not saying all the features shown appeal only to developers, of course, just that Jobs and crew knew their audience. Many of these features appeal to other groups, too: iChat, Time Machine and Mail clearly appeal to other computer professionals who spend their job working on a Mac. WebClip will appeal to even casual users.)

Everybody is the copycat (5, Insightful)

chriss (26574) | about 8 years ago | (#15882825)

It's stupid to ask if Microsoft or Apple is the one stealing from the other. Most ideas we see successfully implemented today are taken from somewhere else and (hopefully) improved. Take e.g. Spaces. Yes, there have been virtual desktops for Linux for years (and I've been using Desktop Manageron OS X for this purpose for some), but spaces is neatly integrated into Expose and viewing all virtual desktops in miniature versions the way Spaces does might even be new, at least I haven't seen it before.

So is it copied? Or is it invented? None of both, it is evolved. Yes, Windows can already make system snapshots like Time Machine. No, it cannot do it in a way that it can be easily managed by a normal user. Copied? Invented? If Vista brings a nicer interface similar to Time Machine, did they copy it back?

The originator of an idea is less important in a world where evolution is as important as with operating systems and GUIs. So these comparisons try to artificially generate a difference where none exists. My personal reference will be which implementation works best for me, not who came up with the inspiration.

Re:Everybody is the copycat (1)

Chaos750 (854562) | about 8 years ago | (#15882956)

viewing all virtual desktops in miniature versions the way Spaces does might even be new, at least I haven't seen it before.
Actually, XP has this in the form of a "PowerToy" released by Microsoft. Of course, it isn't nearly as polished as Spaces will be.

vista vapor (5, Insightful)

redfood (471234) | about 8 years ago | (#15882828)

Its hard not to copy features when according to Microsoft vista will do everything but slice bread. Until its released you really can't say its being copied.

Re:vista vapor (1)

in2mind (988476) | about 8 years ago | (#15883156)

Until its released you really can't say its being copied.

So copy from beta doesnt count ?

Rebuttal (5, Informative)

mrchaotica (681592) | about 8 years ago | (#15882836)

Two of the new features--Time Machine and Spaces--are valuable additions to OS X and worth discussing, though both, interestingly, have been done before in other OSes.

...But not by Windows. Time Machine goes way beyond Windows' System Restore, and is more similar to VMS's versioning filesystem. Spaces is just virtual desktops, yes, but Windows never had them either [from Microsoft] except for a half-assed "PowerToy."

Apple was inspired by Vista features like Spotlight (er, sorry, Windows Search) when creating its previous OS X version, Tiger

Spotlight is not like Windows Search. Spotlight uses metadata much more extensively, and is actually more similar in concept to the database filesystem that BeOS had 10 years ago and that Microsoft has been trying (and failing) to implement since about the same time. So yes, Apple "copied" it -- but from BeOS, not Windows.

By that measure, Microsoft has improved Windows by a far greater degree. In the same time frame, it has shipped [14 "different" Windows versions]. Heck, I might be missing some versions. No, they're not all major releases (The N Editions? Eh.) But XP x64, like Tiger on Intel, was a major engineering effort.

In terms of actual new functionality, all those add up to less than the amount of new functionality Apple has added to Mac OS X in the same time frame. Yes, SP2 was major, Media Center was major, Tablet PC Edition was major, and I'll allow his assertion that x64 was major. But that's it. All those other editions only differed in which combination of preexisting features they included.

And Apple has nothing--absolutely nothing--like the Media Center and Tablet PC functionality that Microsoft has been refining now for several years.

False. Apple has Front Row, which has much less functionality than Media Center, but is certainly not "nothing like" it. And Apple has something like "Tablet PC functionality" too. It's called Inkwell [apple.com] . The only reason nobody knows about it is that, since Apple doesn't sell a Tablet Mac, you've got to have a Wacom tablet to use it.

"They've been trying to ship a single release that's had many names [it's had one name, Vista, and one codename: Longhorn. --Paul]

That's not true; they've been "trying" to ship the features that Vista was supposed to have since about 1995 (e.g. a metadata filesystem), and still haven't managed to do so. So really, they've used every codename from "Chicago" to "Blackcomb" to describe all the functionality that Vista is supposed to have.

He said that Microsoft was ripping off Spotlight with Windows Search in Vista, which in fact, had been developed and publicly discussed long before Spotlight ever saw the light. (To be clear, Apple borrowed that one from Microsoft, but implemented it much more quickly.)

As I said before, the idea originally came from BeOS. Aside from that, the shortcuts Apple took to make Spotlight (i.e. it isn't actually part of the filesystem) resemble the steps Microsoft took when going from WinFS to Windows Search.

And then the rest of the article consists of Paul listing the things that he admits Microsoft copied. I'll omit those since I have no argument with them.

Re:Rebuttal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882974)

Spotlight is not like Windows Search. Spotlight uses metadata much more extensively, and is actually more similar in concept to the database filesystem that BeOS had 10 years ago and that Microsoft has been trying (and failing) to implement since about the same time. So yes, Apple "copied" it -- but from BeOS, not Windows.
My Windows 2000 box has had Indexing Service enabled for the past 6 years, happily indexing files and letting me search them however I prefer.

That's not true; they've been "trying" to ship the features that Vista was supposed to have since about 1995 (e.g. a metadata filesystem), and still haven't managed to do so.
NTFS happily supports metadata, and I've been using it to describe my files for the past 6 years. WinFS is something very different.

Re:Rebuttal (1)

RootWind (993172) | about 8 years ago | (#15882983)

I have to question your first remark and why you compared Time Machine to System Restore when Thurrott wasn't even referring to System Restore:
Time Machine is a truly good idea: It helps you automatically back up everything on your system and restore earlier versions of files at any time. But this was a great idea over three years ago when Microsoft first added it to Windows Server 2003 as Volume Shadow Copy (VSC, or "Previous Versions" to end users). In fact, VSC is such a good idea, Microsoft is adding it as a purely client-side service in Windows Vista as well.

Re:Rebuttal (1)

dontbflat (994444) | about 8 years ago | (#15882986)

To be honest though it does seem like time machine is a goofy, child-inspired system restore. Agreed, Spotlight is not windows search....more like google desktop.
In terms of actual new functionality, all those add up to less than the amount of new functionality Apple has added to Mac OS X in the same time frame. Yes, SP2 was major, Media Center was major, Tablet PC Edition was major, and I'll allow his assertion that x64 was major. But that's it. All those other editions only differed in which combination of preexisting features they included.
But it has been many years since windows XP first came out. SP2 was free. Tablet, media center, and x64 all were specific to hardware. OSX on the other hand comes out with a new version every 6 months it seems like. Nothing major, just little tiny steps before Windows Major upgrade to vista. Who knows Vista may have had it first, and OSX copied...we will never know except for OSX came out first.

System Restore != Time Machine (1)

xswl0931 (562013) | about 8 years ago | (#15882987)

Please RTFA. Microsoft's EXISTING Volume Shadow Copy technology is being compared to Time Machine, NOT System Restore. Apple "copied" the same idea, they just put a prettier interface on top of it.

Rebuttal rebuttal (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | about 8 years ago | (#15883124)

...But not by Windows. Time Machine goes way beyond Windows' System Restore, and is more similar to VMS's versioning filesystem. Spaces is just virtual desktops, yes, but Windows never had them either [from Microsoft] except for a half-assed "PowerToy."

Who says it's anything like System Restore? Even the article says it's "inspired" by Volume Shadow Copy, which is present in W2003 and will be in Vista. The powertoy was, unlike the next Apple release, a free addon, and was available soon after XP.

I don't have time to go over everything, but how does Spotlight use "metadata much more extensively"? Does it add several fields like "artist" and "comments" to the Indexing Service? Frontrow is itunes with huge fonts, and Inkwell is more like handwriting recognition that can be added as input services to xp/2003 (although I don't think it supports gestures), rather than a large modification.

wha!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15882845)

are you kidding me? vista is a direct rip of os x. how can anyone take THIS seriously?

The true copycat.. (2, Interesting)

jaymzter (452402) | about 8 years ago | (#15882853)

..is KDE!
There, would that make him happy? Honestly, it's been said time and time again that the best features of one OS tend to bleed over into others, whether it involves the GUI, networking, or filesystems. Honestly, Apple only makes "photocopier" comments to differentiate themselves in the market from Windows. But I guess logic like that, marketing or otherwise, doesn't generate the page hits required.

Smashing Apples (4, Insightful)

ExE122 (954104) | about 8 years ago | (#15882856)

In the very first paragraph, he establishes what a horrible person Jobs is for competing with Microsoft. And I suppose David was an asshole for standing up to Goliath? Needless to say, he doesn't even mention Bill Gates throughout the entire article.

So then he goes on to attack the improvements over the past couple years:

He claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost. At $129 for each version, that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.) But he counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Jobs claimed).

By that measure, Microsoft has improved Windows by a far greater degree. In the same time frame, it has shipped Windows XP Home Edition, Windows XP Professional Edition, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (and 2005 UR2), Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005, Windows XP Home and Professional N Editions, Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2, absolutely a big Windows upgrade), Windows XP Embedded, Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, and Windows XP Starter Edition in various languages


Am I missing something? XP, XP, XP, XP... the only differences between most being software bundles, hardware compatibility, and driver support. and he fails to mention that pretty much all of those also have a price tag well over $100.

Thanks to the 64-bit Xeon chip that will be shipping in the new Mac Pro systems, Leopard will be fully 64-bit enabled (unlike Tiger, which is only partially 64-bit and then only on certain Power PC systems). That means that OS X will finally do what Windows XP x64 Edition did last year: Run 32-bit and 64-bit applications natively, side-by-side. Good for them.

So Windows released a seperate 64-bit version (which you have to buy seperately as well) before Apple. Again, no big deal. Almost every product on the market is starting to move towards 64-bit support. Is Apple really "copying" Windows here?

It seems to me that all these arguments are really week and that this guy just wants to complain about Apple. I really think he could've used his time more productively.

It's important for you to understand, however, that I don't have Leopard. I'm basing this only on what Apple showed off at WWDC.

Maybe you should try it before you knock it.

--
"A man is asked if he is wise or not. He replies that he is otherwise" ~Mao Zedong

Re:Smashing Apples (1)

orasio (188021) | about 8 years ago | (#15882982)



It seems to me that all these arguments are really week and that this guy just wants to complain about Apple. I really think he could've used his time more productively.



Probably not.
This is probably his job.

Re:Smashing Apples (4, Funny)

TPIRman (142895) | about 8 years ago | (#15883090)

At $129 for each version, that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001.

Paul's math is ... creative. 5 x $129 = $750?

By that standard, it's also "about" $500 on Mac OS upgrades since 2001. I just saved him $250 (or "about" $400).

sleep at night (1, Offtopic)

anandpur (303114) | about 8 years ago | (#15882867)

Q: Sometimes I wonder how Apple CEO Steve Jobs can sleep at night.
A: Well, he have a machine that simulates the sound of the ocean.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0313737/quotes [imdb.com]

Ruth Kelson: No offense, but I think it's *immoral* for one person to acquire that much wealth. How do you sleep at night?
George Wade: Well, I have a machine that simulates the sound of the ocean.

A site specialized on Windows... (4, Insightful)

kusanagi374 (776658) | about 8 years ago | (#15882870)

A site specialized on Windows and with a strong relationship with Micrsooft bashes a competitor OS to defend Vista and make it look like the one that is truly original... I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

(yeah, I got the karma to burn)

Well they're both operating systems (1)

insanarchist (921436) | about 8 years ago | (#15882890)

they're both being developed at the same time, with virtually the same goals of "increasing user-friendliness, increasing productivity, and building on what they've already learned from past experience". If there weren't some obvious similarities, I'd be quite surprised. In general, if someone comes up with a really great idea, and you're trying to compete with that person, it probably makes sense to try to copy them vs. trying to do something the opposite (read: less-intuitive) way.

I'd be pretty pissed if, after one car company decided to put a CD player in their car, the rest of the companies tried to pretend it was a crappy idea to do so themselves. Same goes for antilock brakes, better suspension, smarter engine design, etc. Even you linux zealots wouldn't mind some of these features I'm sure (as long as you had to download/configure/compile them, and then only if you wanted to).

What ? (1)

bytesex (112972) | about 8 years ago | (#15882891)

Paul 'winsupersite' Thurrott doing a negative review of Apple on behalf of MickeySoft ?! I just can't believe it. That's like Christopher Hitchens saying that Saddam had those WMDs after all ! Oh wait.

Re:What ? (1)

CatOne (655161) | about 8 years ago | (#15883028)

Well, Turrott has done a fairly large turnaround in the last 6 months, in general. He bought his wife an iMac I believe, and has spent most of the last 6 months mostly singing Apple's praises.

Childish Vista Fascination (1)

feijai (898706) | about 8 years ago | (#15882900)

I must totally agree with the article: Apple's fascination with Vista IS childish. I mean, why in the world would Apple be obsessed with Microsoft's new operating system? It's not like Vista won't have 90% of the desktop market within the next four years or anything. Oh, wait...

Might this be one of the few Apple stories... (0, Flamebait)

TCK314 (969876) | about 8 years ago | (#15882910)

...that the Apple faithful doesn't want to tag as Apple, given the title?

XP64 (2, Interesting)

bano (410) | about 8 years ago | (#15882911)

I'd say he has a valid point on some things.
The one major thing I have a problem with is him touting XP64.
XP 64bit is the hugest piece of shit know to man.
Thats why it costs less than 32bit XP.
Little to no drivers for it, seperate paths for 32 and 64 executables, ontop of it just being buggy beta code level of stability.
It's worse quality wise than WindowsME.

Re:XP64 (4, Interesting)

MrRuslan (767128) | about 8 years ago | (#15883061)

As a person who uses Windows XP x64 at work everyday I have to disagree. It is every bit as stable as the 32bit counterpart if not more stable. It is based on the Windows 2003 Server codebase and is very reliable and responsive. Drivers are avaliable from most major hardware verndors for new stuff and some old stuff as well. 32 bit Apps work just fine from anywere you want to launch them from. They just have the seprate Program Files paths for convinience. I prefer the X64 version over the 32bit version any day of the week. Don't knock it till you try it.

Well, Mr. Thurrott... (2, Insightful)

jrothwell97 (968062) | about 8 years ago | (#15882912)

...if you look properly, it looks a lot like Microsoft is copying Apple. In the latest beta of Vista, progress meters shimmer. Windows slide into the taskbar when minimised. And practically everything glows when hovered over. Sound familiar, anyone???

The one time Apple followed... (1, Insightful)

Magnusite (526038) | about 8 years ago | (#15882926)

...was when they moved the kill button right next to the maximize button. This had to be the dumbest thing anyone ever thought of. How many times have I accidently killed a mail client because I was trying to get to the desktop? Yes, the application is supposed to catch the signal and open an are you sure? dialog, but they don't have to, and some don't!

Please, somebody tell Apple to put the Nuke button back where it belongs... on the other side of the window.

Ok Thurrott, if that is your real name! (1, Interesting)

Punboy (737239) | about 8 years ago | (#15882940)

Ok, here are a few things that show he's just blowing smoke up our collective skirts.

Microsoft has improved Windows by a far greater degree. In the same time frame, it has shipped Windows XP Home Edition, Windows XP Professional Edition, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (and 2005 UR2), Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005, Windows XP Home and Professional N Editions, Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2, absolutely a big Windows upgrade), Windows XP Embedded, Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, and Windows XP Starter Edition in various languages. Heck, I might be missing some versions. No, they're not all major releases (The N Editions? Eh.) But XP x64, like Tiger on Intel, was a major engineering effort.

Ok, all of these are simply the same OS with different feature sets. Ok, so fine, the x86_64 was a "major engineering effort" (ya right). So lets count that as two major releases since 2001. Isn't that about on par with Apple's MacOS X? The initial releases (MacOS X.0, Windows XP), and then the major platform changes (MaxOS X86, Windows XP 64).

Time Machine is a truly good idea: It helps you automatically back up everything on your system and restore earlier versions of files at any time. But this was a great idea over three years ago when Microsoft first added it to Windows Server 2003 as Volume Shadow Copy (VSC, or "Previous Versions" to end users). In fact, VSC is such a good idea, Microsoft is adding it as a purely client-side service in Windows Vista as well.

You're right. It's a great idea. In fact, the innovative way they've implemented it makes it even better. Oh, whats that? Windows' interface to the same "feature" sucks? Thats right. Frankly the version in Windows 2003 Server is absolute crap.

Apple is integrating applications like Boot Camp, Photo Booth, and Front Row into Leopard. Previously, these applications were only available with new Macs, or in the case of Boot Camp, as a free public beta download. Sorry, but this is hardly impressive.

Its not the integration thats cool here, but instead the enhancements. Boot Camp is coming out of beta, Photo Booth has some awesome new effects/features, and Front Row has a lot of bugfixes and enhancements as well. Nobody once said "Hey look its being integrated," but instead said "Hey look, shiny (new features)!"

Apple's version of Windows Search will now search other Mac clients and workgroup servers, functionality that Microsoft will add to Windows Vista with the release of Vista SP1 and Longhorn Server in late 2007. It will also support advanced search features, like better search syntax, just like Windows Search. And, as with Windows Vista, you'll be able to launch applications and find recent items with Spotlight. Gee, Spotlight still seems an awful lot like Windows Search.

Thats right, a feature thats coming sooner, is being copied from software that will have it later. MacOS X had this tech before Microsoft even announced it in Vista, and really the new features are just a natural evolution of the technology.

You can find more of my response in my blog @ http://apple.krillrblog.com/ [krillrblog.com] at about 1PM PDT (20h00 UTC).

Denial (4, Insightful)

spykemail (983593) | about 8 years ago | (#15882942)

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. While it's true that most features of either OS aren't completely new, there's a big difference between the way Microsoft and Apple incorporate them. Apple tends to create innovative new user interfaces (Time Machine) while Microsoft tends to copy features verbatim, even down to icon style and color schemes in some cases (some examples are given in the presentation).

Another key thing to note is WHEN each company incorporates new features. Apple tends to get things first (first in the sense of before Microsoft) and do cool new things with them while Microsoft tends to get them months or years later and does absolutely nothing new or innovative.

As for the Microsoft bashing during the WWDC it was well deserved. Microsoft deserves to be bashed for taking 5 years to develop a new OS and constantly delaying it while dropping many of its biggest features. And no matter how much you want to argue about Microsoft copying off Apple I hope you can at least agree that they're chasing after Apple's iPod and Google's web services like a little dog that got its bone stolen by a bigger one.

Most of the Mac kiddies like myself aren't really claiming that Microsoft is ripping off Apple in the biblical sense, just that Apple is the leader - the one daring to go where Microsoft probably would never have gone otherwise. If you want the latest and the greatest you have to love Apple and wait for Microsoft.

Actually a good article (1, Interesting)

mikeisme77 (938209) | about 8 years ago | (#15882943)

The summary is misleading... Yes, Paul is a big time Windows advocate (but he's still not afraid to bash Microsoft/Windows where appropriate). It's true that Apple steals stuff from MS just as they steal stuff from Apple (although it's debatable whether or not they steal equally as Paul claims). They also both steal from the OS community--heck Apple stole both their kernel and their browser from BSD and Konqueror projects respectively (they have contributed back to both of those projects, but more than likely not nearly as much as they've gained from them). Still, I agree with his assessment about the release cycle of Apple--adding a couple of new features every year and selling and upgrade doesn't really count as a major release; major releases/versions are whole number releases versions. And $750 (non-academic price) to keep your OS as the 'latest and greatest' over the past 5 years is quite costly. Also, out of the features (at least those announced) being added in Leopard, I also agree that Time Machine and Spaces are far and above the most interesting (Core Animations just makes things pretty--and while I use a Mac, I really don't care if things are pretty...). But out of those Spaces should have been in the FIRST version of OS X as it's just virtual desktops and has been part of *nix for years (and a very useful part of *nix that, frankly, is rearely used by none power users). Time Machine is pretty nice and it solves a common problem for users, so this one is really great (Paul, and other's, argue that there are similar products out there for other OSs and there sort of are, but from what I've read about Time Machine it's a little bit of a different approach and it sounds like a superior option). Right now though there's not enough there for me to even consider spending the $70 (academic price) for an upgrade to Leopard when it comes out as right now Tiger works for me (minus the fact that gcc doesn't work on the Intel Macs--other than version 4.0 because for some reason cc1 and cc1plus aren't included in XCode for the Intel Macs, which Apple tech support informed me about... and which is very annoying when trying to compile FOSS... but I guess I can always run those on my desktop which boots Linspire, Ubuntu, and XP; especially since my desktop is more of my development/media machine any way).

Re:Actually a good article (1)

Kostya (1146) | about 8 years ago | (#15883151)

Just a thought: when your parenthetical statements make up more of your paragraph than your actyal sentences, you should probably drop the parantheses :-)

Inverse Perhaps.. Vista took from OSX? (1, Insightful)

Foo2rama (755806) | about 8 years ago | (#15882960)

One Spotlight is not a rip off of windows search it is the natural progression from Sherlock released in os 8.0 in about 1998. Windows search is a less well implemented version of what Sherlock originally did for searching.

And what is up with his trashing of sherlock later as a tech destined for the trashheap... Windows and disabilty access to the OS... Ok Apple has been much more proactive through the years on this one, with text to speech support since at least OS7.

Overall I see alot of straw man attacks, yes there is a convergent evolution and you can make the point that Mac OSX has taken some ques from Vista, but How many more cues has Windows Vista taken from Mac OS, or how many things has Windows taken over the years? The start button is just a poorly implemented apple menu in os7 (after you could place the hd folder in the menu.)

read between the lines sure Apple took some things, but Microsost has taken more and after using both systems most people prefer the look, feel and use-ability of the MAC OS. For the record I own only PC's at this point.

What a dick (1, Flamebait)

sethmeisterg (603174) | about 8 years ago | (#15882962)

Instead of a fair review, he takes every opportunity to bash Apple. Let's not mention the thousands of features Windows stole from Apple, no, that would be way too fair. What a putz.

Re:What a dick (1)

mattox (912273) | about 8 years ago | (#15883109)

"thousands of features Windows stole from Apple"

You sir, are a moron!

Huh? (2, Insightful)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | about 8 years ago | (#15882963)

Back at the CES, wasn't an MS exec hyping a slew of new features in Vista, all of which already existed in commercially available versions of OS X for several years? Someone has even made a video displaying OS X's features in sync with the audio of the supposed new features of Vista which wasn't publically released at the time.

I really don't want to humor the article by following the link because I suspect a Dvorak-ism going on here.

It's possible that they were MS ideas which Apple managed to beat MS to the market on those features by several years, but frankly, many of those ideas are likely from somewhere else.

The "spaces" feature is Apple catching up on the virtual desktop concept (was available as an XP PowerToy, but before then, was an X window feature), but none of the other introduced features seemed to be rips of Vista.

Childish? (1)

Secret Rabbit (914973) | about 8 years ago | (#15882985)

Couldn't bashing someone else be considered childish? Just saying is all.

Virtual Desktops (2, Interesting)

0xA (71424) | about 8 years ago | (#15882997)

From the article:

Another truly major new feature, Spaces lets you utilize multiple desktops, each of which can contain its own set of application. Multiple desktops have been around for decades, and even the earliest Linux versions had this feature. Microsoft even implemented it in NT-based versions of Windows, though the company curiously never made it easy to access this functionality until it shipped a free PowerToy for Windows, called Virtual Desktop Manager, in 2001. It works an awful lot like Spaces, frankly, though Apple's version is obviously more polished and, well, Apple-like.

Well obviously this guy is either so biased he can't help it or he has a really terrible picture of what virtual desktops actually are. I tried Virtual Desktop Manager and it's bloody awful, I honestly can't think of enough bad words to say about it. That is the difference between OSX and other OSs IME, the Apple stuff just works. Microsoft stuff especially you have to screw around with for 10 minutes first.

Top Secret (2, Informative)

vitaflo (20507) | about 8 years ago | (#15883004)

The author may have wanted to pay attention to the part of the keynote where Steve says there are many things they would not show about Leopard because they didn't want MS to copy them (complete with a "Top Secret" slide). To assume these are the only new features of Leopard is rather foolish. Why would Steve show his hand early if he doesn't have to? Apple has been burned enough by MS the way it is.

If he's going to compare features, wait until we get the full story of what's in Leopard.

Why is this guy linked?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883009)

He is dumb as a brick and has nothing good to say about anything. Are you posting this very poorly thought out article to mock him, is there someone actually listening to him and saying wow thats smart?

Exactly (0, Flamebait)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | about 8 years ago | (#15883018)

More than any other company I cover regularly, Apple plays light and loose with facts. [...] More to the point, Apple's explosion growth in 2005 did nothing to help the Mac's market share, which is still mired at 2 percent worldwide. In other words, Steve's claim is baloney: Apple hasn't really gained any appreciable market share at all--indeed, Apple has lost market share every year since Jobs took the CEO helm--but his comment is technically true: In the slice of time that is the second quarter of 2006, Apple gained--get this--about 1/10th of one percent of market share. And the WWDC crowd goes wild.

I despise Apple-the-company for a lot of reasons, but this is the biggest one. They LIE. From the "twice as fast" ads to the current ads about PCs crashing, they LIE LIE LIE and constantly LIE.

Whenever I bring this up, Apple fans always give me the ol' "yeah, but everyone does it." Everyone does NOT do it to the extent Apple does it. I can't think of any company that is even in the same ballpark as Apple when it comes to dishonesty.

And it's not just marketing dishonesty. It's things like, "The cracks in the cube are designed to be there". I still recall shaking my head at that.

64 Bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883022)

I wonder about the 64 bit thing. Not being a Windows user, and especially not being a 64-bit Windows user, can you run the same version of XP on both 32 and 64 bit machines? My sources tell me: no.

Apple's breakthrough is that they're supporting 64bit AND 32bit in the same operating system. You have a G3 or G4? It runs PPC 32bit. Have a G5? It runs PPC 64bit. Have a Core Duo? It runs Intel 32bit. Have a Xeon? It runs Intel 64bit.

By Paul's counting of Microsoft OS's, there's actually four versions of Leopard. Just because Apple doesn't sell them all in a separate box doesn't mean they're not.

Apple asked for it... (1)

salzbrot (314893) | about 8 years ago | (#15883043)

Apple technically asked for this. I really love Apple and I admire their innovations and their _superior_ implementation of other peoples good ideas, but I found the bashing of Microsoft appalling. Actually I was shocked, because usually, if you start bashing your better selling competitor this is a sign that your product sucks. Just look at all the iPod competitors!

Come on Apple, you have such great products and everyone who matters knows it. You won't convince the Microsoft fanbois in this way, anyways and it only leads to a "But I had it first" shouting-match. It almost felt they had to provide red meat for Apple zealots. May be I am the only one who feels like this, but if this had happened a year and a half ago when I was still contemplating whether to switch, this would have been a major turn off. Luckily at this point they presented Tiger and I could giggle over the _one_ joke Steve Jobs was doing on the Vista delay when he was presenting iCal.

Let's hope that Apple comes to its senses and next keynote they present the (actually great and amazing) stuff they have accomplished and stop the massive ridiculing of Microsoft. That really seems childish to me. It's World Wide Developers Conference and not the Windows Bashing Fest for Christ's sake.

OS Differences (1)

lymond01 (314120) | about 8 years ago | (#15883045)

As OSes get more advanced, we'll see them start to converge (as we always have) on features. The defining traits will be ease of use and security, but functionality will likely end up being very very similar. It's like complaining that the Honda Civic has four tires, JUST like the Toyota Corolla.

world wide DEVELOPERS conference (4, Insightful)

conigs (866121) | about 8 years ago | (#15883046)

The end result is that Core Animation will not directly effect end users in Leopard until developers take advantage of it. Clearly, it was thrown out as a bone to the developer-heavy crowd.

Funny how the World Wide Developers Conference was developer-heavy, huh?

Re:world wide DEVELOPERS conference (1)

conigs (866121) | about 8 years ago | (#15883087)

Destined for the same thrash heap as Automator and Sherlock on most user's Macs, Dashcode lets developers build Dashboard widgets with templates, debugging tools, a visual editor for CSS, and other tools.

I'm surprised he also didn't comment on how useless Xcode 3.0 would be to end users as well. Afterall, what would someone do with a coding environment?

You people are kidding right? (1)

paulevans (791844) | about 8 years ago | (#15883048)

This Microsoft pundit actually has slashdoter's at his fingertips? You're kidding right? You can't be serious. I read the article, except for a few instances, if you switch every instance of "Apple" and the closest "Windows" I would agree with most of his statements.

I downloaded the Vista preview, while installing I laughed a bit here, a little bit there. "Wow, somebody wants to be OSX." I said to myself while loging in for the first time. "Geez, they even built in OSX's Spotlight as 'Desktop Search', wow . . . who is going to believe this crap."

I seriously had more respect for slashdoter's neutrality 5 minutes ago

Let us forgive and forget, can we draw some huge HR tag and start the comments over?

Not just apple (2, Funny)

k1980pc (942645) | about 8 years ago | (#15883058)

''But by the same token, I have to admit to being a bit shocked by how childish Apple is about Vista.

Its not just Apple. Anybody who still thinks Vista is great is childish. I too share your shock

Wait a minute... (2, Interesting)

Major Mayhem (975621) | about 8 years ago | (#15883073)

Apple copying Windows? Ha. If you've tried the Windows Vista beta, you'd notice that the resemblence to OS-X (and some of the popular linux GUIs, but that's off topic) is almost scary. Take a look at the history of both companies to really see who copies who.
Back in the early 80's, Apple was almost solely responsible for popularizing the home PC, if not inventing it, with the Apple II's, LISA's, etc. Microsoft responded with Windows 1.0, 2.0, and the popular 3.0 & 3.1, which weren't much more than a DOS shell that looked almost exactly like Apple's first GUIs, which came a couple years earlier. And Apple actually made their own machines. Steve Jobs had a lot to do with this, especially in the mid-80's when he merged his NeXT project with Apple. Ever since the beginning, Apple has been ahead of Microsoft (as far as I'm concerned) in every aspect, except perhaps with their hold on the market, and that's paritally because Apple chooses to spend their money and resources on R&D instead of marketing tactics.

Nowadays, it's getting harder not to copy each other, as well as other companies & OS's, because the seemingly main goal is to make it look "prettier" than the others. Reliability and functionality are already rather attainable (except with the remaining bugs in Vista...oops) so the focus now becomes what the consumer will consider more when shopping for a new PC.

Stable? Sure. Can I do what I want with it? More. But this one looks prettier!

Bashing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#15883079)

When someone criticizes Apple using solid arguments, that's bashing, but when someone says something against Microsoft, then it's telling the truth, it will be modded +5 Insightful, and argumentative rebuttal replies will be marked -1 Troll...

(Ubuntu user here. No, I'm not new on /., but so damn tired of the attitude...)

surprised (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | about 8 years ago | (#15883114)

I'm actually quite surprised that a slightly anti-apple article has been posted.
With that said, I think he is correct in calling their fascination with vista childish, I mean a coworker read that Jobs Comment about not wanting to reveal all the details about his new OS because Microsoft will copy them, and that is fairly childish in my opinion. Especially where MS has been very vocal about what Vista will be like, whereas Jobs hasn't said anything. Perhaps he's copying Vista features?

I mean, some of his statements are getting pretty crazy, like borderline Sony insanity!

Wow, talk about a 'slanted' viewpoint (1)

perigee369 (837140) | about 8 years ago | (#15883123)

I think Paul T. is showing his true colors as Bill Gates' personal 'lap dog'...

It's sad too, because I used to respect this guy... note: "Used to"

Lately he has tried to explain...(read: justify) WGA, and now the Apple/Jobs bashing... *I* think there's an awful lot of jealousy here, and worried that perhaps Apploe *does* make a better OS than Microsoft, and it's got them reduced to 'bashing'...


(BTW: FYI, I am not previously know as a Mac owner, only bought my first one in April, still have several Windows machines, so, I'm not a 'fan boy' so to speak)

Tiger on Intel (2, Interesting)

withinavoid (553723) | about 8 years ago | (#15883131)

"But he counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Jobs claimed)."

The 210 days was for the switch for the entire product line to Intel processors. Jobs NEVER said it took 210 days to port OS X to Intel, he had admitted previously they had OS X running on Intel for a few releases already.

Why make fun of Vista? (5, Funny)

DiscWolf (976849) | about 8 years ago | (#15883134)

Guys,

Why blast Vista? It is going to full of technological
breakthroughs and really is not that far behind schedule.
I hear it's going to be shipped any day now.

Sincerely,
Duke Nukem Forever

Is he trolling Dvorak style? (1)

rolfwind (528248) | about 8 years ago | (#15883158)

TFA:
But this week at Apple's annual Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC), he announced ten new features for Leopard, the next version of OS X, most of which will seem more than vaguely familiar to Windows users.


Most Windows users are not familiar with the Vista features yet, unless of course they are beta testers.

As I look over the article and list, I wonder if Paul is just trolling for hits. Most of these can;t be calles MS innovation as most existed previously (1. 64bit support? An unforseeable "innovation". Should it get a patent too? Give me a break 4. Spaces, multiple desktops where he cites some archaic never released NT4.0 reference when this is obviously a widely known feature on Unix for year, may have existed elsewhere)

1. 64-bit application support
2. Time Machine
3. The Complete Package
4. Spaces
5. Spotlight
6. Core Animation
7. Accessibility improvements
8. Mail
9. Dashcode and Dashboard improvements
10. iChat

Umm, duh? (1)

ThorGod (456163) | about 8 years ago | (#15883160)

Look, the way I see it there are three major 'camps' computer users fall into: The Windows users, the *nix users, and the Mac users. (Yes, I'm over generalizing a bit, but so is Paul Thurrott. I'm merely playing on his turf.) If you're a member of one of these camps, you'll generally hear flak from the other two. It's the way of life. (My experience comes from the fact I've been 'in' each of these camps. In the order provided.)

So what makes this article worth /.?

Well, I'll admit Thurrott makes some good points. I, for one, didn't see too many features in Leopard that made me want to plunk down $70 for it. The time machine thing sounds awesome, yes, but that's not going to make a huge difference in my life day-to-day. It's the type of thing that's used in those "oh shit" scenarios we all hate. It's not going to save me if the power suddenly goes out and I didn't save what I was working on, and so forth. But it's an effort.

I don't personally begrudge Apple for this too much. They've just switched architectures, and are responsible for developing every part of the Mac experience - minus 3rd party programs/hardware to a limited extent. That's not a trivial task, I imagine.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>