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First KDE 4 Snapshot Released

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the pretty-gooeys dept.

60

Rich writes "KDE has just released the first developer snapshot of KDE 4. This release isn't for end users, but should help developers who want to begin writing applications for the KDE 4 desktop. This release already includes a new CMake based build system, a change from DCOP to DBUS and of course a port to Qt 4. If you're interested in desktop development, check it out."

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60 comments

I WANT SCREENSHOTS (-1, Offtopic)

(TK2)Dessimat0r (669581) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940354)

Paedophile hunt police find human skull

AMERICAN police made further grim discoveries yesterday during their investigation into a paedophile network responsible for kidnapping girls.

A skull and bones were dug up at the home of the network's suspected ringleader, Rob Malda. It was feared that they were the remains of two teenagers who disappeared from New Orleans a year ago. The bones were unearthed after police spent six days digging at a house in Holland, Michigan, one of six properties owned by Malda.

On a visit to the house last week, Malda told police that his accomplice, Jeff Bates, had buried five bodies under a shed. Maximillion Arturo, a police spokesman in Michigan, said that no further statement would be made until families had been informed.

There was speculation last night that the remains are those of shemales from the GNAA. Malda has admitted abducting them. However, he earlier told police that he believed the two girls were still alive and being held somewhere outside Michigan.

Two eight-year-old girls abducted by Malda have been found buried at another of his properties. They starved to death while he was in prison on a theft charge. Malda's wife, Kathleen Malda, has told police that she was supposed to feed the children while her husband was in prison, but was too frightened to enter their cell.

Another two girls were found alive by police two days after Malda's arrest on Aug 13. Ten people, including Malda, his wife and an American police officer, are in custody in connection with the case.

The raped corpses of two women and parts of a third body have been discovered in a freezer at the Slashdot headquarters, along with the remains of an 80 year old woman that remain unidentified.

TrollKore - At the head of the game.
I hate you, I hate your country, and I hate your face.

Screenshots? (5, Funny)

Yuioup (452151) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940357)

Snapshots? I thought you meant screenshots. Show me the screenshots!!!!

(Bye bye karma. We will miss you).

Re:Screenshots? (5, Informative)

strcmp (908668) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940367)

As of now, the interface looks exactly the same as it did in KDE 3.5.

Re:Screenshots? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940411)

Meet the new KDE, same as the old.

Re:Screenshots? (1)

portmapper (991533) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940833)

Meet the new KDE, same as the old.

One major change is that KDE is switches to a new build system [kde.org]

Re:Screenshots? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941057)

One major change is that KDE is switches to a new build system

Wow, this will tremendously ease the transition from a real operating system with multimedia support to the limited Linux-platform ... not.

Re:Screenshots? (2, Funny)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941313)

Wow, this will tremendously ease the transition from a real operating system with multimedia support to the limited Linux-platform ... not.
Sounds like someone forgot to install the 'w32codecs' package.

Re:Screenshots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941958)

Or he's using a non-x86 platform and forgot to install...oh forget it.

Re:Screenshots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15944104)

Or not yet using FFmpeg from CVS...

Re:Screenshots? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941496)

Wow, this will tremendously ease the transition from a real operating system with multimedia support to the limited Linux-platform ... not.

Huh, which multimedia doesn't Linux support? The only stuff I can think of is DRM-infected stuff that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Certainly Linux plays all my CDs and DVDs just fine.

Re:Screenshots? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940543)

The new interface is greatly improved, but those features are not enabled by default (probably good GUI design principles, I guess, so the user doesn't have to learn a new interface w/ every release). You can see some of the advanced features of version 4 in action by doing a google image search on the kde site for kde +4 screenshots [google.com] (the + sign just forces google to include the number 4 in the search string).

Re:Screenshots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941371)

and this was moderated informative?

Clever of you to use a google cache to bring up a wikipedia entry on hot grits. I really gotta start reading the full URL's before i click!

At least it isn't goatse or tubgurl... *twitch*

Re:Screenshots? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941710)

Thank you. I wanted to see how easy it would be spoof a friendly URL that links to a troll site. A Google lucky search seemed like the way to go. I did actually think of using goatse, but it wasn't the highest ranked site, so I couldn't get the redirect, though I think for really sick crap like that, you have to enable unfiltered results, which requires setting cookies, which I can't do from a /. link anyway.

Mostly just proof of concept, though, so I didn't really care. The real problem will be when some nastier troll finds an innocuous looking site that can redirect to a js enabled page... God help us all...

I have to admit, though, it's funny because I originally meant to troll the readers, but these idiot moderators keep modding me up to Informative. It's freaking hilarious. Oh, and Natalie Portman, naked and petrified! w00t!

Re:Screenshots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941620)

I read the story and thought it was screenshots until I saw your post. lol

Dbus over Dcop? (3, Insightful)

Surye (580125) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940385)

a change from DCOP to DBUS
Maybe I am a minority, but the dcop interface was one of the things I loved about KDE. It made scripting trivially easy, hell I could do old tasks that used to take a whole script (like a xmms announce script for xchat or something), and do it with a one-liner alias with dcop. Perhaps this will be good for dbus, assuming it's a better backend technology, to give it a dcop-style interface?

Re:Dbus over Dcop? (2, Informative)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940391)

From what I've used of both, they work almost identically anyway.

Re:Dbus over Dcop? (1)

Surye (580125) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940448)

Then I guess what I like is the extent to which KDE apps have impliment it. I assume there will be a compatibility layer or something for all the KDE programs using dcop?

DBUS OVER DCOP (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940817)

Definitely DBUS over DCOP, I just got a ticket for 3 miles over the limit.

Re:Dbus over Dcop? (4, Informative)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941017)

Yes. The new Qt-DBUS module contains a tool similar to the old dcop utility, so you can script to your hearts content.

Re:Dbus over Dcop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941827)

It's more verbose than DCOP.

I'll switch to dbus when ... (4, Insightful)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940388)

They let me do this with dbus
alias loud='dcop kmix Mixer0 setMute 1 0'
alias silent='dcop kmix Mixer0 setMute 1 1'
No, I've used dbus too [dotgnu.info] . But there's nothing like dcop, especially for such hooks for mundane things.

But I guess, it is a good thing KDE and gnome are converging ... for the linux desktop, at least in the short term.

Re:I'll switch to dbus when ... (5, Informative)

Laxitive (10360) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940453)

You should still be able to do that in the new KDE. Maybe the command name will change (I hope not, because I have several scripts I'd have to change over).. but the functionality should still be there, the same interfaces should still be exposed by apps, and the ability to access it from the shell should still be preserved.

DBUS is just a message passing layer implementation. How that functionality is exposed is still well within the control of the KDE developers.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you have something to worry about, then I have something to worry about... and I'm not worried.

Just chill and look forward to Kerry, solid, phonon, plasma, and all the rest of the good stuff coming our way :)

-Laxitive

Handy photo album using google image search (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940401)

Just add the site tag for a handy photo album [google.com] .

No Wonder Windows Rules (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940415)

This stuff is baby shit. Ubuntu? That's "baby shit" in Chinese, "Hung-chow-wang-ubuntu-in-pants". Translate: baby took a dump in your best lap.

Here We Go Again! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940535)

Seconds out; round 328!

In the blue corner, weighing in at 205 pounds - GNOME! He's certainly the more agile of the two, with considerably greater speed. There have been doubts about whether he has enough tools and power to stay competitive with his opponent, though. He is certainly the promoters favourite, however, and has consequently attracted more in the way of sponsorship. The main power brokers in the business are certainly getting behind this one. Preferred taunt of opponent: 'Bloaty Man'.

In the red corner, the crowd favourite, weighing in at 325 pounds - KDE! He clearly has the weight advantage, but of course he isn't the speediest in the ring and may get caught wrong-footed if he's not careful. He also has more tricks up his sleeve than his opponent - but how many of them are really useful and how many are just for showing off? Many have remarked on his resemblance to the former champion from Redmond (who was sadly stripped of his title for match-fixing), but he claims to be no relation. A lot of the old hands in the business say he is the one to beat. Preferred taunt of opponent: 'Pretty Boy'.

Well, it's certainly been a tedious and in many ways pointless fight! Just when it seemed that someone was gaining the upper hand, the other fought back and it still seems to be pretty much level overall. It may have to be decided on points, but there has been much controversy over the alleged bias of the judges, with both fighters' supporters accusing them of siding with their opponent.

Well, it's time to cut to a commercial break, but don't worry as there is no doubt that this fight is going to run and run.

Not really (3, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940854)

In general, the developers and users all seem to say; eh, whatever. The simple answer is, there is no real battle. When GNOME had a late start into this, then yeah, there was a bit of a battle, That was years ago. These days, both sets of developers are trying to make everything interoperable (witness dbus and multimedia).

For some odd reasons, there is a group of A.C.s that seem bent on starting a battle between these groups and making them focus on each other rather than focusing on beating others groups.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941537)

The notion tat KDE is slower than Gnome is simply not true. Surprisingly, especially on low end machines, this is quite the opposite. I recently gave someone in my company a temporary desktop that was a P4 1500MHz + 256 MB. Tried to run current versions of both gnome and KDE (using suse 10.1), and I was really surprised to find out that while the machine was practically unusable when running (running wouldn't be the correct verb here) gnome, it felt really decent when running KDE.

Re:Here We Go Again! (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941442)

I don't think that is true. What is probably most surprising is how theming affects the way people view a desktop environment. The future is not KDE vs. Gnome but both.

Re:Here We Go Again! (1)

True Grit (739797) | more than 7 years ago | (#15946689)

What is probably most surprising is how theming affects the way people view a desktop environment.

BINGO. :) You can tell the typical trolls, AC or otherwise, by their comments about appearance. The AC you responded to made a reference to KDE having a "resemblance to the former champion from Redmond", for example. This is a dead give-away that the AC hasn't actually used KDE and is merely "stirring the pot", hoping to get a fight started. The truth is you can make KDE look, and in many ways act, like just about any other OS out there, or not at all. That's where the real difference between KDE and GNOME now lies: KDE is far more customizable than GNOME, but because of that, also more complex. It appeals to power-users, or folks who disagree with what the "majority of users" (whoever the hell they are) believe a DE should look and act like. This also means, however, that GNOME and KDE are not in direct conflict with one another any more. To use the evolution analogy they are no longer competing for the same limited resources: they have evolved to serve different "ecosystems", where the existence of one no longer implies a threat to the existence of the other. The GNOME and KDE devs eventually stopped fighting amongst themselves as this shift slowly but inexorably happened over time.

The future is not KDE vs. Gnome but both.

Yep, and I'm amused by those who are suprised that these two groups have found areas within which they can cooperate. Nature is full of examples of different species, which aren't directly competing with each other, cooperating for their own mutual benefit. Happens all the time. *Yawn*.

Oh, but the trolls want to see blood! Cooperation is boring, dammit, CONFLICT is where the FUN is! Ohhh, how disappointed they must be that this "fight" within the FOSS community ended without the buckets of spilt blood they hoped for. As a last resort they could (try to) resurrect the old RMS emacs vs. Lucid emacs bloodfeud(1), but, AHA!, luckily for them there's always the "Copyright vs. Piracy" and "Windoz SUX", flame wars to feed their lust for conflict!

(1) I thought of mentioning vim here, but I suspect there are too many youngsters on /. now that wouldn't know what I was talking about. :) (2)

(2) Then there is my own fear that the blood-letting from that particular feud will never end, as long as survivors, refugees, pagans, priests and warriors from that war still live among us. Some wounds just go too deep to be forgotten. May all the victims of that little-known Holocaust now rest in peace. AMEN.

Re:Here We Go Again! (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15964655)

"KDE is far more customizable than GNOME, but because of that, also more complex."

complex customizing = complex internals?

Don't think that is true. When you look at the depencies KDE is clean. And QT is beauty, very clean and organised.

Gnome was chaotic, then they removed the setting. But you can still customize it.

----

Controversy makes discussions intresting. Same goes for politics.

Re:Here We Go Again! (1)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 7 years ago | (#15967254)

I think what True Grit meant was that by directly exposing their customization options KDE increases their complexity. In contrast GNOME hides much of their customization options for the purpose of exhibiting simplicity. The post didn't appear to be about internals.

Re:Here We Go Again! (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15968246)

a) internals
b) surface

When b) is simple and a) is chaotic you cannot feel safe. And a) and b) have little in common.

It is like putting garbage down under your bed.

And we know that Gnome, like or not, is rotten on level b.

I don't think KDE increased its complexity.

Problems of Graphical Operating Environments are today not on the KDE/Gnome level but in the backend, in the space where distributors take responsibility. I mean system configuration, package management, etc. Most problems are interface related. You don't get sound because the driver is broken, not because the KDE configuration panel was too bad. Most usability problems we have today have nothing to do with KDE or Gnome. They can be boiled down to a simple: How long does it take to fix your problem and what knowledge do you need?

I mean
- no sound
- installation problems
- driver and configuration problem

Gnome and KDE together have the power to set standards in these fields. System configuration tools should be integrated. YaST for Debian was an intresting approach. LSB is a lame duck for getting distributors together.

Stolen from OSNews. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941878)

That comment was directly stolen from the KDE 4 snapshot topic today at OSNews. Unfortunately, they took it seriously over there.

The original comment is at: http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15547&comm ent_id=153831 [osnews.com]

Re:Stolen from OSNews. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15942096)

Don't worry, I assure you that the same person (me) posted it in both cases. I wanted to see the reaction here as well. I just don't bother using an account on Slashdot.

But the reaction on OSnews was exactly what I was poking fun at. I just think it's really sad how seriously and personally some people take criticism of their preferred GUI, and I couldn't resist throwing that one out there to see the response. Childish, I know, but not as childish as being in love with a Desktop Environment. Of course, I could have stepped in to break it up, but I always follow the maxim: 'Never return to the trolling once it's been lit'.

The KDE vs. GNOME debate has well & truly replaced the Emacs vs. vi one of yesteryear (vi is far superior, of course...).

Kde 4.0? :) (3, Insightful)

Klaidas (981300) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940562)

First Development Snapshot of KDE4 "Krash" released. Before anyone goes ahead and compiles/runs this, please be aware that it will look exactly like KDE 3.5 - except for being broken in lots of places.

Re:Kde 4.0? :) (1)

tetabiate (55848) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940618)

Does it qualify as alpha or pre-alpha release?

Re:Kde 4.0? :) (2, Informative)

Punboy (737239) | more than 7 years ago | (#15942877)

Exceedingly pre-alpha. This is being provided solely for the purposes of debugging, and for porting important applications early. the main KDE libraries have been ported to Qt 4, and have been partially rewritten. To give developers a headstart (and for them to help work out bugs), they released this. It is in no way meant for the public to ooh and aah over, and frankly i'm irritated its on slashdot.

Re:Kde 4.0? :) (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941043)

Yeah. It's new technology at this point, not new applications yet. This is also why it's a snapshot and not an alpha release. Alpha would imply it was preview of the final version, which it is not.

Composite Kwin. When? (1)

tetabiate (55848) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940600)

If there is one thing preventing me from installing Xgl is the horrible experience I witnessed using KDE with compiz.

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15940684)

I'm seriously floored that Zack hasn't leapt up to add all kinds of XGL-powered goodness to KWin - it seems like just the kind of thing that he would be unable to prevent himself from doing! He seems to be tied up [blogspot.com] with other things, though :(

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#15940760)

What's wrong with it? Compiz is getting a lot better lately.

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (1)

tetabiate (55848) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941114)

Compiz has a lot of plugins providing fancy effects but I find most of them disturbing and for some reason I think I am not the only one complaining about them. In contrast, last time I checked it was lacking even the most basic options provided by kwin like remembering window size and position, edge attraction, etc. I tried a little Xgl + KDE + compiz on a friend's computer and found it rather messy.

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#15942139)

There are some useful ones but I turned most of the eye candy off.
It does have edge-snapping though, it just does it in a brain-damaged way where you have to hold shift and the snap distance is too big to be useful. Oh and it depends on the wobble plugin for no apparent reason.

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941487)

So why did Novell-ximian develop it in a closed process, enabling Gnome to be the first on stage?

The proper way is followed by RedHat anyway, not Novell. Xgl is obsolete despite the hype.

Re:Composite Kwin. When? (2, Interesting)

Trinn (523103) | more than 7 years ago | (#15942993)

I don't know, but a fully open process for it is one of the goals I've been aiming for. see www.compiz.net and find out how to really make your compiz nice (note, I'm mostly a KDE user too, but for some reason, kicker is crashy with compiz, so I switched to a gnome-based session with lots of KDE apps. (I hate gnome's remove-the-options interface style, and hate that it's infected gaim...)

CMake and KDE (4, Interesting)

The boojum (70419) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941227)

I'm really glad to see CMake [cmake.org] finally getting used by a high-profile project. I hated CMake at first sight -- having to install it first before I could build a project seemed strange after the autoconf ./configure; make routine. But it really is a nice system and has meant no longer having to support and keep in sync parallel make files, Visual Studio projects, XCode projects, etc. like I used to. Configure scripts failing on native Windows builds, for example, was always a pain. It's been a lot easier to build cross-platform projects now that I'm using CMake for everything.

Seeing KDE adopting it has been great news for me, since it means that I may be able to start releasing my own small projects with CMakeList.txt files without getting funny looks. I love that it's looking like KDE will blaze the trail for us little guys who prefer CMake over the autoconf tool chain.

Re:CMake and KDE (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15941478)

From my perspective English Breakfast Network [englishbre...etwork.org] looks like the greatest infrastructure improvement.

For KDE the question is how to attract more developers to the plattform. The answer is of course to remove entrance barriers, e.g. the small annoyances which regularly break stuff and need certain more or less trivial knowledge to fix them.

Cmake has to sides:
a) you have to learn it and it is different from the usual toolchain
b) it solves certain problems.

Re:CMake and KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15941561)

From the perspective of people already using CMake it may be a "unified" way of doing things. From other's point of views it's yet another duplicated effort and another stupid dependency, because someone hacked up yet another tool for the same job.

Re:CMake and KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985970)

> I hated CMake at first sight -- having to install it first before I could build a project seemed strange after the autoconf ./configure; make routine.

It's not as if you don't have to install make. And besides, CMake could be used to pre-generate makefiles per-platform, but there's just too many of them.

Autools wouldn't be so bad if it used a real language instead of the godawful nasty m4. In a way though, that's all cmake is, it just doesn't generate shell scripts like autotools does.

It's All Personal Tastes (1)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 7 years ago | (#15953368)

Personally I prefer Enlightenment (e17) as nothing on the Windows or GNU/Linux platforms touches it in terms of smooth operation and beauty as well as lightness and simplicity with tons of complexity and flexibility. I spent the entire Winter using KDE 3.4 and it just never struck me as having any worthy eye candy that makes it much different from Windows XP. It has the same chunky/clunky icons, buttons and fonts that XP does. At least Gnome is a Mac OS (preX) wannabe with plenty of innovation (ie. lots of stuff it does in truly different and not readily apparent ways). But e17 really just kicks them all aside. It looks like Xgl and Compiss might give e17 a run for the money. But what they don't get that Raster does is the actual purpose behind the features. It's nice to have a 3D cube that you can rotate to move from one virtual desktop to another. But, besides making the virtual desktops readily apparent to stupid users who don't get them, how does it serve anyone? Raster's e17 does a nicer job with its pager. And wobbly windows? Come on! That's neither useful, nor attractive. With the power of Xgl and Compiss, they could do something way cooler... like MY idea from 1992 of closing a window and having it blow off the screen like wind blowing grains of sand off of a surface. Now THAT's at least visually interesting. (If you have the mind to picture it the right way) So... my Winter with KDE. I really only grew fond of one thing in KDE and that was the Konsole terminal app. That's the best written terminal emulator I've ever seen for any desktop environment ever. Tabs, multiple tab synced typing, etc... Just too cool. But that's it. KDM is kinda boring. The "Switch User" feature lacks the polish of Windows XP's, not to mention I've been using Ctrl-Alt-F7-F12 to do this at home for years now. Kontact is fucking ugly. Sorry, but if you need fonts that chunky, you need to go see an eye doctor. Uggh. Give me 10 or 12 point fonts on a 1600x1200 or 1920x1080 screen any day puleez! There is nothing that KDE does that Gnome can't do (and do with more style). And I'm not a fan of Gnome really other than it's much easier to customize than KDE. So I can at least set my systems up so they're easy enough for anyone to use. Can't really do that with KDE now can you...

Re:It's All Personal Tastes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15953632)

You should see a therapist.

Re:It's All Personal Tastes (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#15959454)

Remember a true 'desktop environment' is more then eye candy. ( which is changeable pretty easy )

Its about the underlying toolkits that allow you to create and integrate all the great applications that we all want to use. Changes like this are more intended for developers to get exited about, not the end users... ( tho agreed, in the end they benefit as well )

Re:It's All Personal Tastes (1)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 7 years ago | (#15962735)

I agree to an extent. I definitely see that KDE is VERY integrated throughout. That's why it feels more "finished" than some of the other environments. But eyecandy seems to suffer. There's still way too much flat and solid color stuff in KDE. And anything that does have gradients or 3D look and feel is only at the most basic level. There isn't much photorealism in the GUI. That's a HUGE detriment if you are trying to attract the eyecandy crowd. Now... there are plenty of people who aren't in that crowd and we (the eyecandy folks) are a small group. I'm just not the kind who is satsfied with the limitations of a Mac or a Windows PC and I'm willing to go through the grief of installing e17 just to have a nice looking and easy to use system.
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