Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

PlayStation 3 Manufacturing Not Started Yet?

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the that's-err-not-so-good-kaz dept.

210

aapold writes "Despite reports to the contrary, Sony Computer Entertainment American president Kaz Hirai states in an interview on Gamespot last week that 'We haven't started manufacturing yet. Some of our ops guys were actually just in China, and also in Japan just reviewing the [production] lines and everything else. But they are, again, preparing as we speak to get the manufacturing going. We've not announced and we haven't set really a specific date to say, 'As of this day we're going to start manufacturing.'"

cancel ×

210 comments

But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (4, Funny)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947803)

They are really pushing out the boat, don't get a PS3 have a girly PS2 [reghardware.co.uk] instead!

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (2, Insightful)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947866)

lol @ OP. cant blame sony; it worked for the DS, right?

on topic: manufacturing of the ps3 hasnt started yet. they have the component manufacturers completing and stockpiling components for the time being.

it doesnt make sense to have millions of completed ps3s sitting in a warehouse waiting to be stolen. besides, sony doesnt have to worry about paying to store the ps3s until they are completed. right now its each component manufacturers responsibility to store the components. its a standard manufacturing procedure to wait until the absolute latest minute before shipping to actually assemble the fully completed product.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (2, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949168)

It makes PERFECT sense to have them sitting in a warehouse. Remember the PS2? This is going to be worse. They need stock to sell. If they had any brains and had the ability, they would be cranking them out so they could sell them. Remember that when they got for $2000 on eBay, Sony only gets the origonal $500 or $600. They want more to sell, and making them now would allow that.

Despite all the (sometimes tremendous) screw ups around the PS3, I don't think they are THAT stupid. They aren't making them becuase they can't. The design isn't final, there are cell chip yield problems, they need more blu-ray drives, whatever. If they could make them, I think they would.

I know shortages get free press, but they will get enough of that anyway. If they can make an extra 1,000,000 units I don't think it would stop a shortage if that was distributed world wide. There would still be a shortage, but they would sell more.

Unless they are holding back because despite their predictions they don't think a $600 toy will sell well (especially compared to a 360 that seems very similar and is chaper, and the Wii which is innovative and MUCH cheaper).

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949762)

sony is king of screwups, i admit that much. however meeting their goal of creating 2 million units by the end of the year will /still/ make for a shortage some how some way. 2 million consoles in four months isnt /that/ outrageous of a goal to meet IMHO.

given that sony has been manufacturing consumer electronics for decades and have seen their fair share of shortages, i dont think that their plan itself is the cause for any shortage. they know what they are capable of, if everything works according to plan. component shortages, unseen defect problems, floods, earthquakes, and various acts of god of war(TM) not withstanding.

feel free to continue to discuss various conspiracy theories whilst i fasten my tinfoil hat.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (2, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949682)

it doesnt make sense to have millions of completed ps3s sitting in a warehouse waiting to be stolen.

Yeah, let's get rid of warehouses altogether. Nothing but dark cesspits of crime. I say the right time to start production on any item is the moment someone actually purchases it. Otherwise it's just going to sit around someplace and get stolen.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (4, Interesting)

Quino (613400) | more than 7 years ago | (#15950037)

Actually, this is one of the principles of modern manufacturing: Toyota lean production methods, just-in-time manufacturing, etc.

http://searchcio.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid 19_gci810519,00.html [techtarget.com]

I'm not saying that I think this is what's going on with Sony, but going away from massive warehousing has been a "revelation" in modern mass production .

Warehousing is *bad*, you're paying for storage for stuff to just sit there, and when you're talking about millions of units the amount of money wasted can be huge. Of course, what you want to do is to have the manufacturing set up to meet demand with the minimum amount of storage possible. The concern isn't theft (maybe it's then 100th concern), but cost.

Here's a summary (copied from the above link) that summarizes Toyota Production Methods (now, of course, widely emulated with varying degrees of success by other companies, industries, around the world):

1. Eliminate waste
2. Minimize inventory
3. Maximize flow
4. Pull production from customer demand
5. Meet customer requirements
6. Do it right the first time
7. Empower workers
8. Design for rapid changeover
9. Partner with suppliers
10. Create a culture of continuous improvement

Vast warehousing is so 1980s! (and a sign of inneficient manufacturing).

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (0, Troll)

masklinn (823351) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948100)

Is it me or is that thing ugly as a sin?

I mean the "Royal Pink" DS are not that good looking, but at least the design of the product doesn't clash with the color, this thing on the other hand really shouldn't have seen the sun, ever.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948710)

this thing on the other hand really shouldn't have seen the sun, ever.
I don't think it will. The few units that are sold will be hoarded in dark, damp basements by collectors of arcane and wacky hardware.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (1)

iocat (572367) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949472)

Humidity will ruin your collection. If you need to keep your stuff with you down in mom's basement, you should invest in a good dehumdifier. Darkness is good though. I suggest the attic.

Re:But you can get a pink (as in ponies) PS2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15949091)

Looks kinda cool to me.

It has that Candy Raver color look to it. Yummy.

We've found step 2, guys (4, Funny)

aendeuryu (844048) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947811)

1) Decide to produce a game console.
2) Look at every decision Sony has made for the Playstation 3, and do the opposite
3) Profit

We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15947965)

And it's aendeuryu.

Congrats nimrod! You're Slashdot's Idiot of the Day!

With Microsoft's 360 dead in Japan. Dying in Europe. And selling worse than the first 360 in the US. And selling a miserable 3 million units worldwide after 8 months on the market - worse than their first 5 billion dollar marketplace fiasco with the first Xbox.

And with Nintendo giving up trying to compete technologically by coming out with an overclocked GameCube with a pointer bolted on.

And with Sony selling 100+ million Playstation consoles on their first foray into the console market.

And with Sony selling 106+ million Playstation 2 consoles in their second entry in the console market.

And now with the PS3 Sony is about to put out:

The $499 PS3:

1080p BluRay movies over component
BluRay Live support - additional dynamic content updates and information for movies
DLNA compliance - http://www.dlna.org/home/ [dlna.org]
1080p Games over component
Free online play for all non-MMORPG titles - confirmed over and over again by Sony
Full backwards compatibility for all PS1 titles
Full backwards compatiblity for all PS2 titles - PS2 chips included in the PS3
Linux
Online movie and music store
Webbrowsing and other desktop apps
Tilt controller
Every single developer that supported the PS2 onboard with their games for the PS3
All parts of the system except the HDMI port are upgradeable
Harddrive upgradeable with stadard store bought drives

For 100 dollars more you get:

60 gig harddrive
WiFi
HDMI

Yep, aendeuryu, poor liddle Sony...

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (0, Offtopic)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948021)

And you've proven that you're a complete fanboy with no sense of humour! Poor liddle AC...

We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (-1, Flamebait)

Redlazer (786403) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948182)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah, we found him all right. Good old AC, for the win. Its too expensive. Only fanboys like you will buy one. It costs more than most people in a month in europe - its not necessarily "too expensive", its more like "Id rather make my car and house payments". -Red

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (2, Insightful)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948304)

I hear this too expensive mantra all the time. Hell, I even subscribe to it. Yet I have had more than one of my friends tell me they are buying a PS3 when it drops. I am also beginning to believe that this is a common opinion amongst the non hardcore.

At least the people I know and hang out with (30ish with no children, tech jobs) have the disposable income to buy one of these things no sweat. Personally, I'm waiting to see what the games play like before I choose between a 360 and a PS3.

Also, the Euro market doesn't determine a thing in video games. Japan and the US do. Thats why almost ALL games are released in Europe last.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (2, Insightful)

Redlazer (786403) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948429)

Good point, but you have to remember, who is the majority? People working tech jobs with no children? Or people with children who dont have that kindof money to spend?

Yeah, 20 year olds might have enough money to one - but how many teenagers do you know who can manage their money effectively? How many 600 bucks "laying" around?

While Europe certainly does drive killer sales, it helps - and you have to remember, the margins for "extra" money are slimming - 600 bucks used to be relatively easy, but it isnt so much any more.

Now, we get to the parents - out in the stores shopping for a christmas or birthday present. They say they want a PS3 - but im sure their parents will hesitate with such a hefty price tag. i certainly would - im sure, as adults, they have somewhere else theyd rather half a thousand dollars. Car payments, debt, credit cards, etc. Many parents will buy it anyways - but how many will not? More than those that do?

You cannot rely on the hardcore to really drive sales anymore. the casual are more significant - and 600 is not casual. just look at standard PC sales - how many gamingmachines does Dell sell? Far less than the casual POS machines tehy kick out the door.

-Red

Initial price not all that important (1)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949188)

> You cannot rely on the hardcore to really drive sales anymore. the casual are more significant - and 600 is not casual.

Been guilty of that thinking myself. But lately I have been pondering thus: Nobody has been able to manufacture enough units to satisfy initial demand on a new console. That being the case for the PS3 I suspect it won't matter what price they sell it for, there will probably be enough fanbois, California (where the cost of living is such that $500-$600 isn't much) IT geeks, spoiled yuppie kids who will get one for Xmas regardless of whether mom has to scrounge one from Ebay for $1000, etc. to sell out the initial inventory for Xmas '06.

It is '07 where things get interesting. Once they reap all of the 'gotta have it at any price' sales and get production ramped up to churn out machines by the freighter load they have to sell em to regular folk. To sell the sort of mass quantities that can keep the factories humming and sustain developer interest that price does have to drop, and fairly fast. Can they do it?

Re:Initial price not all that important (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15949466)

I have seen this argument many times but I don't think that it is valid. With the PS2 you had a situation where there was a couple million people who were willing to purchase a PS2 at $300, a much smaller number of systems, and very few people who were thinking of selling a system on eBay; for argument sake, let's say at launch 2 Million people want a PS2 at $300, Sony had 500,000 units available, and only 10,000 people thought of selling their system on eBay; now the result of this is that after the initial shipment has sold there would be 1.5 Million people who wanted a system but could not buy one, if only 5% (75,000) of those people go to eBay there is massive competition for a small number of systems (meaning high prices).

Now basic economics tells us that as prices increase quantity demanded decreases, so at twice the price the number of people who want a PS3 at launch has probably dropped in half or quarter (I would suspect closer to a quarter, and possibly less); at the same time there are far more (probably closer to 50,000) people who will try to sell a system on eBay. If Sony provides 500,000 units, and there are 500,000 people who want the system there is no competition because (regardless of whether you buy it on eBay or in a store) there is a system that has been made for you.

Sony now has made more money per system, so that's good right?

No, the PS3 now has a stigma of being an overly expensive luxury item; for the next 3 years people will still associate the price of a PS3 as $600 (or quite possibly $800 because of bundles). The only way to battle this is to spend a lot of money on a marketing campaign and reduce price rapidly; a marketing campaign of "now only $400" will probably go very poorly, and excessive or rapid price drops will agrivate your early adopters and lead people to anticipate further price drops (which they will hold off for).

Re:Initial price not all that important (3, Interesting)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949741)

To sell the sort of mass quantities that can keep the factories humming and sustain developer interest that price does have to drop, and fairly fast. Can they do it?

Not if history is any guide. The PS2 was out for about 18 months before the first price drop of $100 (33%). Then, after 12 months it dropped 10%, the following year 16%, and finally 13% this year to its current price of $130.

If they could follow the same pattern in terms of percentages (and these numbers are rounded a bit), the PS3 price would drop to $335 in 2008, $300 in 2009, $250 in 2010 and $220 in 2011. If the Xbox 360 followed the same guide, we would see (premium - the core prices would be more like the PS2) $270 in 2007, $240 in 2008, $200 in 2009, $170 in 2010.

Of course, Sony could end up being a lot more aggressive if things start working out better in terms of Cell production, and if Blu-Ray manages to knock HD-DVD out of the movie market (I'm sure MS could hang with them easily, staying lower priced no matter what Sony does). If not, we could be looking at PS3 consoles costing a minimum $300 up to 3 years from now - that would seem to be something that would put a dent in PS3 sales compared to those Sony enjoyed with the much less expensive PS2.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

garylian (870843) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949714)

While I agree with you 100% on the fact that parents will think twice about dropping $600+ on a PS3...

Look at how many 16yr olds get a brand spanking new car when they turn 16. Look how many of them get a Lexus or Acura.

Sure, it doesn't happen everywhere, but there are a lot of places where kids are growing up in smaller families and having parents willing to dump bigtime $$$ on their kids. And there are even more parents that would be willing to dump $600+ on a PS3, plus $50 or so on a game, as an electronic babysitter.

My dauther is 3.5 months old, and I have already had to stop turning on SportsCenter in the morning when I feed her before taking her to daycare. Because she keeps trying to look at the TV. I have seen other parents drop $100-200 a year on DVDs/Tapes for kids just to keep them occupied so they can cook dinner and the like, when kids videos became so popular years ago. Those same parents will probably drop the $$$ on a PS3.

It's sad, but true.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949910)

Look at how many 16yr olds get a brand spanking new car when they turn 16. Look how many of them get a Lexus or Acura.

This is not the majority though. 100+ million playstation 2s were sold. That level of sales means even people who take the bus to work have them, not just well-off people with nice cars.

The price WILL be a factor. How much of one remains to be seen.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 7 years ago | (#15950107)

Actually, where I live it is common.

Also, 100+ million wasn't accomplished at release. Thats over a lifespan. I am willing to bet that there are more than enough Japanese and American fanboys, spoiled kids, and high income/low responsibility adults out there who can allow Sony to at least match the sales for the 360 release.

While I agree that price may be a factor, it's really all speculation until the PS3 is released. Sony has won this battle two gens in a row, a feat only matched by Nintendo. And when Nintendo did it, the game market was pretty small and focused. Now there are plenty of young adults with a more substantial income who may be willing to blindly shell out the money for a PS3, they have never been disappointed by a Sony game box - so they won't chage.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949576)

Yet I have had more than one of my friends tell me they are buying a PS3 when it drops.

This is actually a bad sign for the PS3. If a console has robust initial sales, then these late-buyers will supplement its success. But if everyone, or most people, plans to "buy it later", the sales won't pick up, developers abandon it, and the would-be late buyers just don't buy because, "hey, there aren't many good games for it". Network effects are very strong for consoles.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 7 years ago | (#15950003)

By "drops" I mean when it initially becomes available.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#15950019)

Try to use standard terminology, if you would. At least, don't use a term whose primary meaning in that context is the opposite, or siginificantly different from, what you meant.

Let me guess: you prefer to say "price point" where "price" would convey no less meaning?

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (0, Flamebait)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948185)

Yep - Poor Sony - getting what they deserve.

Spending to much to deliver a product that is priced OUT OF 98% of the gamers in world's price range.

XBOX 360 didn't do well because it was too expensive for what it offered.
PS3 is WORSE.

I wouldn't buy this piece of shit if it was only $10.00 USD - just because of the offensive nature of BluRay.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (1, Insightful)

theelectron (973857) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948271)

Well, I guess I'll rip on your comment a bit, but I won't resort to calling you names...

BluRay... Ummm, yeah, I don't feel too good about this tech, nor do many people because of the past Sony media problems.

Online movie and music store... So, you're telling me Sony will let me burn those to take with me too? Even after their attempt at preventing this with their rootkit? I don't think so.

Webbrowsing and other desktop apps... Yes, because that is why I get a game console, to write up my resume and lookup porn.

Tilt controller = pointer bolted on, so you already discredited this one, even though it's a good feature.

Every single developer that supported the PS2 onboard with their games for the PS3... that falls under the 'Full backwards compatiblity for all PS2 titles umbrella', or is there more to it?

Harddrive upgradeable with stadard store bought drives... Wouldn't that void your warranty from Sony?

The whole HDTV thing is questionable currently, but I think it will be valuable in a few years when HDTVs actually become more mainstream and when that happens the non-HDMI connector on the cheap version will likely be useless.

Please cut out the pointless fan dribble and give us the useful features.

The sad part: you're right, the PS3 will do really well in the marketplace. I know this, and it is because the large majority of consumers are stupid.

Re:We've found the Idiot of The Day, guys (3, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948943)

"And with Nintendo giving up trying to compete technologically by coming out with an overclocked GameCube with a pointer bolted on."

Worked for the DS. Enjoy playing all those FPS's with your analog stick.

"And with Sony selling 100+ million Playstation consoles on their first foray into the console market."

So?

"And with Sony selling 106+ million Playstation 2 consoles in their second entry in the console market."

So...?

Sony sold a bunch of systems. Yahoo. So did Nintendo. They lost the roost pretty quick. Heck, the N64 lost to a graphically inferior machine. Times change. For example, some systems are launching for $600 now.

"And now with the PS3 Sony is about to put out.. " ... a bunch of stuff that has little to do with games. You used the history repeating itself argument, so I'll throw it right back at you: The PSP had similar advantages. Look who it's losing to.

Reports? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15947844)

Despite reports to the contrary...

Would those reports to the contrary have anything to do with 1up and SLASHDOT deciding to title a previous story about developer kits being sent out as "PS3 Production 'In Full Swing'"?

Re:Reports? (1)

aapold (753705) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948562)

Indeed... the originally submitted article referenced that slashdot article. I do see it listed under "related" articles.

Hehe (1)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949699)

You know, someone hanging from a noose could be said to be "in full swing" too. Just sayin'...

This just in... nerds hate everything. (5, Insightful)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947846)

I think the internet has made it impossible for some people to like anything.

Maybe the reason the video game industry is seeing a slow down is that no matter what any company does we bitch about it. The small publishers are too small, the big publisers are to big, the inovative games are too inovative and everything else is not inovative enough... We need to grow up and quit this fanboyism and infighting, we all may have diffrent taste but we all want one thing, qualtiy entertanment.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (5, Insightful)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947934)

I'm going to have to disagree. Aside from the name, virtually all the press about the Nintendo Wii has been positive, in nerd circles and outside of them. The PSP got an astounding amount of positive press from geeks and non-geeks, which surprised me for reasons I'll not reprise here. The DS is getting positive press.

Both the PS3 and X-Box 360 aren't getting much love. The X-Box has three problems - it's a tad expensive, it's only an "improved" version of what preceeded it rather than an innovative new design, and it has the word "Microsoft" on the box. The PS3 is getting less love because it seems to be a rather more expensive version of the X-Box 360, with a few ideas pinched, allegedly badly, from the Wii.

In other words, the innovation is being praised, but expensive boxes that don't appear to have any substantial innovation are not.

I don't think it's a matter of nerds will complain about anything. It's more a matter that nerds have little to praise at the moment. But generally, yes, there are still things being found to be "praiseworthy".

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15948328)

I have a feeling that both the XBox 360 and PS3 have problems gaining positive press because of their sloppy design; sloppy in the sense that both products lack focus or purpose of design. It has always been my opinion that the best (and often most successful) products are the ones with the greatest focus of design because they do one thing really well rather then a dozen things poorly; the original iPod was like this in that it was an excellent mp3 player with no extra features. After you have established an excellent product then you can add features to improve the value of the product (iPod photo, iPod video, etc.).

Now, the PS3's price is a symptom of this lack of focused design because it's not only a Game Console but it's also a Blu-Ray movie player; the main reason for the Blu-Ray player is to establish a format to strenghten Sony's media devision. Had Sony dropped DVD and Blu-Ray movie playback (as well as SACD and CD playback) on the base system (as Nintendo and Microsoft have done in the past) they could have saved $50 or more on licencing fees alone; had they dumped the hardware they could probably save $200+ on the system.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948378)

he X-Box has three problems - it's a tad expensive, it's only an "improved" version of what preceeded it rather than an innovative new design, and it has the word "Microsoft" on the box.

You fogot to mention that it lacks the backwards compatibility it was originally supposed to have. That makes its library of games rather small. It may have somewhat better graphics than the PS2, but the PS2 has a ton more games.

And the PS3? Yeah, lots of people are going to be really excited about it up until they see the price tag. By then the Wii is supposed to be out too, and all three consoles will be there together in the stores within a few steps of each other. Sony doesn't seem to realize that for many of the non-geeks they're hoping will buy the PS3, the $600 PS3 is going to be sitting between a $400 console and a $200 console. There will not only be alternatives, but they will be right there. Imagine a street vendor selling his tacos for a $2 while the guy right next to him is selling his for $1.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949633)

bbbbbut the $2 tacos are SO MUCH PRETTIER!

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949794)

The $2 tacos also have HDMI interfaces. I'll only consume tacos in fully digital form...analog is so over.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948402)

More importantly 90% of the non hardcore gamers I know don't know anything about the PS3 launch except what I've told them, and most of the people I know who do like gaming never bothered getting an XBox 360 because they didn't believe it would look any better on their normal TV sets (which isn't true, but oh well).

The big question is how well Sony will market the PS3 in the next few months leading up to its pre-Christmas release. I have a feeling they'll do an amazing job (as before) and the average Joes will buy it up quite happily despite what 1% of the population on Slashdot thinks.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

drewmg (974212) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948657)

You're crazy if you think the average joe is going to spend $600 on a video game system. The PS2's market share comes largely from the dude in a dorm room who saw his friend play Madden and GTA and wanted to do the same. It's not VIDEO GAME fans making up the PS2 market share, it's CASUAL gamers who don't know their Katamari from their Master Sword. And if you think that a college student who barely was able to afford a $250 PS2 3 years ago is going to shell out $600 for a video game system, you're wrong. This will sell well to early adopters (like /. readers) and to Sony fanboys, but the type of consumer that made Sony the market leader won't spend that much money on a video game system.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (4, Informative)

andrewman327 (635952) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948506)

I disagree with your disagreement. Although you are correct in asserting that some things receive mostly positive press, us geeks always find something to deride. Let's look at /. articles about the systems you proclaimed as having virtually all positive press.


The PSP isn't being marketed enough and that pisses off EA [slashdot.org] . I know this is outdated, but it still counts as criticism: first weekend sales were slow [slashdot.org] . Back in December, no one cared about the PSP [slashdot.org] . More recently, people do not seem to know what to do with the PSP [slashdot.org] .


Wii is a stupid [rockymountainnews.com] and weird [games.net] name that is just a marketing gimmick [slashdot.org] and really is stupid in case you missed the first article [slashdot.org] . Developers aren't 'getting' the Wii [slashdot.org] .


On the flipside of your reasoning, let's take a look at the systems that you highlight as receiving bad press:

The XBox360 will have the most market share past the presidential election [slashdot.org] . The XBox360 is being sold for much less money than it costs to make it [slashdot.org] so I don't see how you can complain about the price. The XBox360 is also mostly backwards-compatible [slashdot.org] . The 360 has also redefined the market and what it means to be a console [slashdot.org] .


The PS3 will dominate market share through the midterm elections after the presidential election [slashdot.org] (I'm a poli-sci major, I think in terms of U.S. elections). The PS3 is region free for gaming [slashdot.org] . The PS3 might max out the FPS available on even nice TVs [slashdot.org] and has amazing NVIDIA graphics [slashdot.org] and is going to be upgradable [slashdot.org] . The PS3 is backwards compatible for games and [slashdot.org] memory cards.


In other words, the innovation is being praised, but expensive boxes that don't appear to have any substantial innovation are not. I don't think it's a matter of nerds will complain about anything. It's more a matter that nerds have little to praise at the moment. But generally, yes, there are still things being found to be "praiseworthy".
For any innovation there will be geeks who praise it and insult it. I will be insulted if I praise Linux or Microsoft, /. or Digg. Granted there are things that are constant sources of criticism (/. mod system, RIAA, SCO, RIAA, BSA, RIAA, RIAA, etc.) but they are the exception rather than the rule.


This concludes the most time and research intesive post I have ever written. If I weren't at work right now I would feel like I had wasted my time.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949164)

The XBox360 is being sold for much less money than it costs to make it so I don't see how you can complain about the price.

You don't? Like this: "Three to four hundred dollars is more than I'm willing to pay for a videogame console, regardless of how much it cost them to manufacture it."

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949229)

The XBox360 is being sold for much less money than it costs to make it so I don't see how you can complain about the price.

The PS3 will sell for $600, but some analysts have placed it's costs at $900-$1000 per unit. That means they are selling it at a $300-$400 discount.

That doesn't make $600 cost any less.

XBox 360 + Wii + games Good luck Sony, you're gonna need it.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949246)

XBox 360 + Wii + games Good luck Sony, you're gonna need it.

Sorry, I forgot I can't use greater than or less than signs without escaping them. That should have read:

XBox 360 + Wii + games <= $600

Good luck Sony, you're gonna need it.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (3, Insightful)

Lave (958216) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947945)

no matter what any company does we bitch about it. The small publishers are too small, the big publisers are to big, the inovative games are too inovative and everything else is not inovative enough... We need to grow up and quit this fanboyism and infighting, we all may have diffrent taste but we all want one thing, qualtiy entertanment.

I agree with you - despite not seeing anyone complain about innovative games, or companies being too small. And I'm totally against fanboyism, but then I'm also against Root-kits and the complete arrogance Sony has been showing towards their customers rights. I'm very excited about the PS3 only Assassins Creed, but games are a secondary consideration when it comes to supporting companies with which you have ethical troubles with.

It's not called fanboyism to abandon Yahoo because of the way they have behaved in China, and it's not called fanboyism to abandon Sony because of their stance on DRM and Piracy.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948002)

I just want to point out that Assassin's Creed has long been rumored to be in parallel development for the 360 as well - and remarks from the developer have more or less confirmed that at this point.

-Erwos

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15948160)

In that case I presume your also not buying a 360 or Music from anyone else right? Cuz you know Sony did'nt invent DRM nor Piracy (Pro or Against)

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948408)

I agree, "abandoning" Sony because you don't like what they are selling or the way they sell it is perfectly reasonable.

But what I take issue with is that people don't stop at not buying the PS3 they are doing there best to paint it in as negative a light as possible... it's as if Nintendo is paying for this negative press campain.

I would like to be able to look at some of the potental drawbacks of the Wii without getting into an argument on how bad the PS3 is going to suck (I have actualy had this conversation... I brought up a genuine concern about the Wiimote and they proceded to pantomime the use of a PS3 controler to demonstrate that I was foolish... I hadn't mentioned the PS3)

We all need to take a deap breath and look at things objectivly, here are a few parts of my thinking process.

Wii

Pros:
Inexspensive
Inovative game play potental.
Cons:
May have weak 3rd party support.
Games may not make use of the Wiimote.
Bacwards compatability looks like it requires rebuying your old games.
Vurtual Boy, N64.
First party games on the gamecube tend to be low on content or at least repetative.

Xbox 360

Pros:
Out now, has a head start on games.
Xbox live makes multiplayer easier.
Cons:
"exclusive" titles for the Xbox tended to show up on the PS2... the same may happen here.
Hardware is prone to breaking... not a good value.
The stable of games so far seem to be mostly games I would not buy, like the Xbox.
Backwards compatability is severly limited and from what I hear buggy.

PS3

Pros:
Konami support. (I am a huge MGS fan)
Backwards compatability.
Sony has a track record of more 3rd party support than the big N and Microsoft.
Blue Ray... if it is picked up by the industry... though on the other hand who cares what media the games are on?
Cons:
Price, this is kinda a big one but on the other hand... I spend 1500-2000 on a computer for gameing.
DRM... well I don't plan on stealing anything but if it makes my life harder then it's a con.
Blue Ray... if it isn't picked up by the industry much of the value of the system is lost.
Negative press may put a dent in 3rd party support.

The main thing I see people saying is "I want a PS3 but it is too exspensive WHAAA" well they don't say exactly that but that is what I hear.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

jizziknight (976750) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948883)

Additions/corrections:

Wii

Pros:
Inexspensive
Inovative game play potental.

Back-catalog of NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, Turbo-Grafix 16 games
Complete backward compatability with GC

Cons:
May have weak 3rd party support.
The key word here is MAY. From what I hear, the 3rd party support is looking to be much better than the GC.
Games may not make use of the Wiimote.
Bacwards compatability looks like it requires rebuying your old games.
A couple dollars a pop. Big deal.
Vurtual Boy, N64.
First party games on the gamecube tend to be low on content or at least repetative.
How is this a con only to the Wii? Most 1st party games, especially with franchises, tend to be repetative. At least the Nintendo ones tend to be consistently entertaining (Zelda, Metriod, Mario, SSB)

Xbox 360

Pros:
Out now, has a head start on games.
Xbox live makes multiplayer easier.

Good controller design. Well, at least better than the old Xbox and DualShock/Shake
Cons:
"exclusive" titles for the Xbox tended to show up on the PS2
and/or GC ... the same may happen here.
Hardware is prone to breaking... not a good value.
The stable of games so far seem to be mostly games I would not buy, like the Xbox.
Since when is a personal preference a con? Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Which is not to say it's not true, just that it's not a valid con when phrased that way. Perhaps "The stable of games so far seem to be mostly games the general gaming crowd would not buy, like the Xbox" would be better, but you'd still need to back this up somehow, since you do not solely speak for the general gaming crowd.
Backwards compatability is severly limited and from what I hear buggy.

PS3

Pros:
Konami support. (I am a huge MGS fan)
So save your money and wait a couple years until it comes out on the Wii. If the PS3 bombs, which isn't altogether unlikely, this will most assuredly happen
Backwards compatability.
Do you actually expect this to work properly? IIRC the PS2 wasn't totally backward compatible with the PS1; do you think the PS3 will be any different (not just with the PS1, but with the PS2 as well, and probably compounding issues with the PS1)? Let's also not forget the lack of memory card ports, so have fun purchasing that dongle and moving all your game saves over.
Sony has a track record of more 3rd party support than the big N and Microsoft.
Yes, the PS2 has a crapload of games. How many of them are actually any fun? Not shitty clones? Worth paying for?
Blue Ray... if it is picked up by the industry... though on the other hand who cares what media the games are on?
Cons:
Price, this is kinda a big one but on the other hand... I spend 1500-2000 on a computer for gameing.
Your computer probably also serves a lot of other purposes as well (word processing, email, internet, etc.) and is upgradeable to a point. The PS3, on the other hand, will play games and (maybe) movies. The PC is clearly worth the price tag.
DRM... well I don't plan on stealing anything but if it makes my life harder then it's a con.
The other ones have some sort of DRM, too. It's just not in the press as much and they don't have that pesky Root-kit fiasco in their past.
Blue Ray... if it isn't picked up by the industry much of the value of the system is lost.
Negative press may put a dent in 3rd party support.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949121)

Since when is a personal preference a con? Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Which is not to say it's not true, just that it's not a valid con when phrased that way. Perhaps "The stable of games so far seem to be mostly games the general gaming crowd would not buy, like the Xbox" would be better, but you'd still need to back this up somehow, since you do not solely speak for the general gaming crowd.
I only speak for myself... and I am not interested in many of the games on the 360, these are my pros and cons... not yours or anyone elses.
Do you actually expect this to work properly? IIRC the PS2 wasn't totally backward compatible with the PS1; do you think the PS3 will be any different (not just with the PS1, but with the PS2 as well, and probably compounding issues with the PS1)? Let's also not forget the lack of memory card ports, so have fun purchasing that dongle and moving all your game saves over.
That's a good point... I didn't think of it that way but it still has to be better than the way the Xbox 360 does it.
Yes, the PS2 has a crapload of games. How many of them are actually any fun? Not shitty clones? Worth paying for?
More games means more good games as well as bad, also what appeals to you or I may not appeal to someone else and games sold (good or "bad") means dollars reinvested in new development.

Time will tell which system (if any) I buy... The games, not the console or the company, in the end will be what motivates me to spend money. (MGS4 is tempting... but I can wait for things to settle a bit.)

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15949430)

That's a good point... I didn't think of it that way but it still has to be better than the way the Xbox 360 does it.

Why do you assume, because it's Sony, that it has to be better than the microsoft way of doing the emulation? That's like saying that just because a car is from Japan that it must be better than the rest, or that car is American and it must be a heap of crap. Well, you get the idea.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

jizziknight (976750) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949464)

That's a good point... I didn't think of it that way but it still has to be better than the way the Xbox 360 does it.
So... what exactly makes you think it will be better than the way the 360 does it? It's not like Sony exactly has a good track record when it comes to that sort of thing.

More games means more good games as well as bad, also what appeals to you or I may not appeal to someone else and games sold (good or "bad") means dollars reinvested in new development.
That's what you would expect to happen, and it may, but somehow I doubt it. While those dollars might get reinvested in new development, if the dollars came from a shitty game, that just reinforces the development house's perception that their shitty games sell, and they will continue to make shitty games. Also, because of the popularity of the PS2, everyone and their mom feels they can produce a best-selling game on it. I'm all for indie devs, but not when they shit out a clone just because they can. I'm betting that if we look at the ration of good to bad games for the GC, XBox, and PS2, the PS2 fails miserably.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949030)

Vurtual Boy, N64. ??

I don't understand what you are stating as a Con.

Wii - also has 'Free online multiplayer' as a Pro,

as Well as 'Konami Support' lest we forget about Snake being in Smash Bros.

I would also put 'Strong Launch line up' in that category too, and

Hardware based B/C for Gamecube games (including full controller and memory card support without additional purchase).

X-Box 360 - It does graphics 'as well as' the PS3, but you can buy it now, for less money.

If you buy the Core system you can upgrade any components you want that are missing.

You can buy an HD-DVD add on, but not be forced into buying one you don't want.

PS3 - Cons - Weak launch line up. Yes, I'm interested in Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4. Unfortunately those games are coming out in 2007, so there is no incentive for me to be an early adopter.

$499 version is not upgradeable.

Blue-Ray is a neutral one. It is not a value added feature to me, but I would have to buy it anyway, To you it may be.

"Exclusive" PS3 titles showing up on 360 as higher development costs nesessitate.

Reliability. I know you put the 360 down for breaking easy, but I expect the Sony PS3 to have a similarly high failure rate for the first 2 generations of their shipments as their PS1, and PS2 history has shown.

Lack of Rumble.

Backwords compatibility? - Remains to be seen. The rumor of them including the PS2 chip in each unit was proven false, so they are likely doing emulation, just like the 360 so we'll see how that turns out.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949444)

as Well as 'Konami Support' lest we forget about Snake being in Smash Bros.

I haven't forgoten... but having there mascot charecter in a brawler is not the same as Konami putting a MGS4 port on the console. It isn't about playing as snake... it's about playing a Metal Gear game for me.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949833)

Sure, but even though MGS4 hasn't been announced for any other platform (though I suspect it will be) Konami is supporting the Wii, (in fact Konami supports all the consoles) so I guess it's just a matter of semantics. To Me Konami is much more than MGS.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949904)

True... very true... I guess we will see what happens.

I won't decide what (if any) console to buy untill I can compare the games and games I want to play are on the market.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Masami Eiri (617825) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949245)

Wii

Pros:
Inexspensive
Inovative game play potental.
Cons:
May have weak 3rd party support.

Huh? I don't have the link right now, but IIRC, Nintendo said there's a number of 3rd parties interested, including EA.
Games may not make use of the Wiimote.
So? The Wiimote is cool, but look at the DS. The touchscreen isn't overly utilized in most games.
Bacwards compatability looks like it requires rebuying your old games.
OK, have to agree here, except on the Gamecube ones. Those play directly off the disc. Plus, if you have the old games... why rebuy them, unless your system is broken.
Vurtual Boy, N64.
First, N64 may not have been a ZOMG huge success, but it wasn't a failure. 2nd, its too early to call this.
First party games on the gamecube tend to be low on content or at least repetative.
Have you ever played a game for the GC by Nintendo?

Xbox 360

Pros:
Out now, has a head start on games.
Xbox live makes multiplayer easier.
Cons:
"exclusive" titles for the Xbox tended to show up on the PS2... the same may happen here.

Name one. Typically, it was the other way around.
Hardware is prone to breaking... not a good value.
The stable of games so far seem to be mostly games I would not buy, like the Xbox.
Backwards compatability is severly limited and from what I hear buggy.

Can't really argue the other points... The one about limited games is a matter of perspective though.

PS3

Pros:
Konami support. (I am a huge MGS fan)
Backwards compatability.
Sony has a track record of more 3rd party support than the big N and Microsoft.
Blue Ray... if it is picked up by the industry... though on the other hand who cares what media the games are on?
Cons:
Price, this is kinda a big one but on the other hand... I spend 1500-2000 on a computer for gameing.

A normal computer can do so much more though, so that's only half-relevant.
DRM... well I don't plan on stealing anything but if it makes my life harder then it's a con.
Aside from copy-protection on the games (which, IMO, is acceptable for a console), has there been any other confirmed DRM? There's been rumors, yes, but confirmations, I don't recall.
Blue Ray... if it isn't picked up by the industry much of the value of the system is lost.
Negative press may put a dent in 3rd party support.

Agreed.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Wdomburg (141264) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949446)

Games may not make use of the Wiimote.

Games for the PS3 may not make use of the tilt features in their controller either. Or may have used rumble if Sony hadn't dropped that feature.

Bacwards compatability looks like it requires rebuying your old games.

There should be 100% backwards compatibility to the Gamecube, so this only applies to the earlier cartridge based systems and games for other consoles.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Burlap (615181) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949895)

how is the Virtual Boy and N64 a con? cause they bombed? couldnt you also say that learning from those mistakes makes them a pro?

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

GundamFan (848341) | more than 7 years ago | (#15950041)

Nintendo seems to have the attitude that they know how to make games and consoles without any real input from the consumer... most of the time they are right but sometimes they lay a big fat brick on the market. Big N has been doing well lately and I hope it continues (they are the only ones who seem to care about younger gamers plus compitition is good). IF the Wiimote is hard to use or just not very widely used (wouldn't it suck to have to buy a normal controller to play 90% of your games fully) and if the Wii just doesn't bring much to the table in the way of value and inovation I could easly see it being a sleepy little system that will turn a profit but little else.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Damvan (824570) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949003)

"then I'm also against Root-kits and the complete arrogance Sony has been showing towards their customers rights."

This is the exact reason, along with being suckered by the PSP and Sony's arrogance towards their customers in general, that myself, and most if not all of my gaming friends (professionals in early 30's, plenty of disposable income) are not buying a PS3, or any further Sony products in general.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

ciw42 (820892) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947991)

Yup, you're absolutely right, we want quality entertainment, however what Sony seem to be preparing to offer us is some overpriced, overhyped, problem ridden piece of hardware, which is hedging its bets on at least two seriously risky components - BluRay and Cell - which may well crash and burn, and have to compete with a number of perfectly viable alternatives with major industry backing.

We've got the Xbox360 in our hands, so no risk there. You know what it does and you either want it or you don't.

There's now so much information, so many good reviews, and so much anticipation for the Wii, that in combination with the low price point and guaranteed exclusive titles, mean Nintendo and its potential customers are on very solid ground indeed.

Sony have a lot of problems to overcome right now bringing the PS3 to market, and as far as I can see, they've brought it all upon themselves. Forget fanboyism and infighting, this is out and out ridicule.

Entertainment - yes. Paying good money and still having to cross your fingers and hope that luck is on your side and your new console isn't going to be a major disapointment, that it will have decent games that are in some way better than those released for a console retailing at half the price, and that it won't end up being just a box full of expensive proprietary hardware with no future - no thank you.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

orasio (188021) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948014)

And since when does nerds opinion matter to Sony Corporation ?
It's a tradition in /. the idea that nobody in RL cares what /. nerds think, if windows is hard to maintain, if ubuntu is a C00l desktop, if apple is good or bad.

Of course, maybe we have some weight in other peoples choices. But I don't think Sony executives care about /. users opinion about their console, I don't picture them crying with hurt feelings, because we say they are stupid trying to sell a game console for 500+ dollars.
And I don't think the failure of PS3 (as in : failure to be as succesful as PS2) will be due to nerds being too harsh on these companies, but because of wrong bussiness decisions.
They are spending lots of money behind yet another braindead Sony proprietary media format, killing their otherwise great console bussiness, I don't think our bitching will be the cause of their failure.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Traiklin (901982) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949198)

I was with you untill this point
They are spending lots of money behind yet another braindead Sony proprietary media format
this argument comes up EVERY TIME Blu-Ray is mentioned, it is NOT a Sony Proprietary media format, unless Sony secretly bought 136 companies without anyone knowning, Sony is NOT the only company that can make Blu-Ray discs, Sony is NOT the only company that can make blu-ray drives, Sony is NOT the only company you can buy Blu-Ray discs from, so how is it a Sony Proprietary Media Format?

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949656)

Because, if the PS3 succeeds, Sony will be the supplier of something like 99% of the Blu-Ray players in consumer's hands. Which it won't, of course.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948228)

You're giving geeks on the Internet way too much credit. No matter what, whenever something new is announced, a portion of the Internet population will go around posting that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and another portion of the population will say it sucks ass and they wouldn't get one even if you paid them to.

News flash: people take extreme positions on the Internet, and argue them into the ground. However, I don't think there's any real evidence that arguing on the Internet actually changes anyone's purchasing habits.

Re:This just in... nerds hate everything. (1)

AlastairMurray (537904) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949174)

I think the internet has made it impossible for some people to like anything.

I don't like that notion.

Didn't they learn from the PSP? (4, Insightful)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947852)

Having a shortage of consoles can drive up sales...

If there are no products that compete with it. If people can't get a console, they'll possibly look to another console such as the cheaper 360 or (potentially) bargain Wii. Sony have received enough bad press over the PS3 in regards to price (especially in the UK where we get especially ripped off), copycat features and lowered tech specs.

The PSP shortages hurt Sony as lots of people bought the cheaper DS instead and as a result the PSP didn't get that vital early userbase.

Re:Didn't they learn from the PSP? (1, Troll)

masklinn (823351) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948118)

The PSP shortages hurt Sony as lots of people bought the cheaper DS instead and as a result the PSP didn't get that vital early userbase.

Me thinks the shortage of non-ports-of-PS2-games didn't help either...

Re:Didn't they learn from the PSP? (0, Troll)

MBCook (132727) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949196)

Me thinks the relative shortages of ANY games didn't help, especially good games (of which there have been few).

Re:Didn't they learn from the PSP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15949242)

Maybe we're talking about different regions, but IIRC the Sony PSP didn't have shortages when it was initially released. In North America (I believe) that Sony launched with 1,000,000 units and sold just over 400,000; at the same time there were a couple PSP's selling on eBay for about $1,000 (mostly assumed to be a marketing ploy by Sony). The problems with the PSP (that prevented people from buying it) were that the screen was beautiful and high-definition (as compared to the GBA/Nintendo DS) but there were too many dead pixels and Sony wasn't replacing systems because of it, UMD was great but was far too expensive for what you were getting, the games were too expensive, there were too many ports of Playstation and PS2 games, there were too few simple fun games (that were typical of a portable system), and the system was just too expensive.

The PS3 may have a lot of similar problems, for example:

-1080p is nice but most TVs can't take advantage of it; many people (over the past 5 years) have bought EDTVs (480p) thinking they're HDTVs, of those that actually bought HDTVs most of them are 720p or 1080i TVs, very few people (probably in th 1%-5% range of people who bout TVs in the past 5 years) own a 1080p TV.

-Blu-Ray is nice, but it is too expensive (movies will start out in the $30 range), doesn't have much selection, and no one is sure that it will become the next format.

-Games are too expensive; they will be in the same range as the XBox 360 games ($60) with (probably) a $10-$15 priemium for games published on Blu-Ray

-Smaller developers (the bread and butter of the Playstation brand) have been discouraged (both by their publishers and Sony) from producing PS3 games; the argument is that these developers will not be able to produce games at the "graphical quality" people expect from PS3 games.

Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15947855)

Nothing to see here - as usual.

Sony has been manufacturing the PS3 components for some time now, but they haven't begun assembling those components into final retail units yet. These daily anti-Sony Zonk tirades are like the people who still try to make BSOD jokes here on Slashdot - they end up doing more harm than good for the person making them.

Zonk, give it a rest. You're accomplishing nothing other than making yourself look ridiculous.

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (5, Insightful)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947919)

Zonk, give it a rest. You're accomplishing nothing other than making yourself look ridiculous.

Are you suffering from the misapprehension that Zonk is somehow making these stories up out of wholecloth? A lot of negative Sony articles are getting posted, but i suspect that's because a lot of negative Sony articles are being submitted. Zonk also posted the article about the marketing study saying "PS3 Predicted to Lead Market Through 2011." [slashdot.org] Note that no one congratulated Zonk for overcoming his anti-sony "bias," or argued how this study proved that all the other articles Zonk posted were wrong. Instead everyone criticized the study as being unrealistic and uninformed. Right or wrong the majority of the vocal slashdot crowd seems to have it in for Sony, and these are probably the same people sending in articles.

I think the ones constantly railing against Zonk's "tirades" and "favortisim" are the ones who are looking more and more ridiculous at this point.

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15947974)

Zonk also posted the article about the marketing study saying "PS3 Predicted to Lead Market Through 2011." Note that no one congratulated Zonk for overcoming his anti-sony "bias," or argued how this study proved that all the other articles Zonk posted were wrong.

Maybe this is because you didn't look at what the story said properly? The real story wasn't 'sony to lead the market' the story was how close the xbox 360 is supposed to be to leading the market at that time.
This is apposed to how it is a dead last place at the moment. Nothing kills a console faster than the thought that another console will be a stand out market leader and hence get all the best games released for it. The key for M$ and it's whores like Zonk is to be subtle

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948032)

forget the tinfoil hat, we need to get you into a tinfoil room FAST!

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948422)

Dead last place is one way to sum up the current market position of the 360. Leading in first is another. Since it's the only console in it's market at this point, both labels are equally meaningless. Your usage exposes you for the troll you are.

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15948138)

I agree. Zonk could post a story about humans needing oxygen to survive and at least twenty people would immediately post about how Zonk is crazy and should just admit he is an oxygen fanatic.

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948342)

Are you suffering from the misapprehension that Zonk is somehow making these stories up out of wholecloth? A lot of negative Sony articles are getting posted, but i suspect that's because a lot of negative Sony articles are being submitted.

I expect there are plenty of negative stories out there but this isn't a story at all.

Zonk contrasts a genuine statement from Sony that they haven't started producing PS3s yet with a statement by Zonk himself in a previous Slashdot summary where he referred to "Phil Harrison, saying that the PS3 is in full production mode" [slashdot.org] . But the linked interview didn't back that up - he talked about dev kits being delivered.

There seems to be some sort of desperate implication that Sony are leaving things too late. Maybe they really are, but nothing is provided to support that. The Sony guy sounds relaxed enough about the schedule. There's no link to anyone with knowledge of the manufacturing process suggesting that they're likely to have problems. There's no link to previous console production schedules showing this one to be unusual.

Have you read the comments? Again, no actual explanation but an almost universal condemnation of Sony's action. Whatever it was. My favourite is the one, modded up, claiming that this "news about them tops the previous news" and congratulates them for their "incompetance" (sic). Okay, cheap spelling flame, but seriously WHAT NEWS?

Honestly, remind us how much you hate rootkits. I agree. Point out if you feel you have to that the PS3 is still planned to be expensive. Yes, sure, no change since yesterday. But pretending there's a story here is absurd. This whole thing is bizarre. There is no story.

Re:Another Non-Story - Zonk FUD Story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15948541)

Um, Sony just released the (supposedly) final DEVELOPMENT consoles yesterday - check Google for news/pics if you dont believe me. That means they are a loooong way away from making the actual console. You don't develop the dev console and the release console concurrently. There is no way there is going to be a final retail console available in 3 months.

This Just In... (-1)

Belgarion89 (969077) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947899)

DNF announced as launch title for PS3!

Translation (4, Funny)

neonprimetime (528653) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947926)

GS: Speaking of dates, its three months to the day from now that you guys are going to launch. - translated to : you guys are so screwed, you're never going to get ps3 released!
KH: Correct. Yes. - translated to : shut up, so we screwed up a few times, leave me alone!
GS: How are things looking there? - translated to : so is there any chance Sony can still profit from ps3?
KH: Everything's pretty much on track. - translated to : if I owned Sony i'd just scrap the whole project right now and begin working on PS4.

Re:Translation (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949104)

if I owned Sony i'd just scrap the whole project right now and begin working on PS4.

Hey, it worked so well when Atari scrapped the Panther project to focus on Jaguar, and when Sega abandoned 32X to focus on Saturn...

Wow... (3, Funny)

Schezar (249629) | more than 7 years ago | (#15947932)

I've been following the "Jack Thompson Rule" when it comes to covering/reporting on/commenting on Sony in the past several months. Essentially Sony, like Jack Thompson, must be ignored unless the most recent news about them tops the previous news. For example:

Jack says something stupid: write a comment
Jack says something else stupid: ignore him
Jack kills a baby: write a comment

Congratulations Sony! You've gotten me to once again comment on your amazing incompetance.

And cue the complaints... (0, Troll)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948020)

... that there are too many negative Sony stories being posted in 3 - 2 - 1... Oops, I guess I'm too late.

Hey, I like my weekly updates on Sony problems. I need to know whether there'll still be any idiots during launch who will be willing to pay 3 times retail price on Ebay.

Good choice (1)

n3tcat (664243) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948026)

Seems like a good plan. They hold off on production, and at release come up with less supply than demand, and hopefully the lack of supply causes news stories to artificially inflate the demand.

Now what I think will hurt them the most is when people see the $800 price tag on ebay, and say "I'm waiting a couple months so I can buy it at a normal retail price." like they did on their last two consoles.

Surprise! The console price isn't dropping!

Zonk PS3 FUD Turning Bizzare (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15948052)

Did anyone actually read the story this latest bit-o-fud from Zonk is referencing?

It is an article talking about Sony shipping devkits to developers and has nothing about final PS3 consumer hardware being manufactured - along with some creepy Zonk anti-Sony commentary in the summary.

They don't care... (1)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948089)

GS: The 360 was plagued by significant shortages at launch. What steps are you taking to make sure the PS3 doesn't meet the same fate?

KH: Well, I think that you know this is all relative, but you need to put it in context. I think that we've always talked about shipping 2 million units worldwide within the calendar year. Since we're going with three territories, we haven't really come up with an allocation just yet. But even if you do the simple math you're talking about less than 700,000 units per territory, per major territory, between launch and the end of the year. So even if there was some fluctuation--you give Japan more, you give the US more, what have you--you're going to end up with some shortages. So I think that if we've done our jobs right and if we've been able to really have the consumers become interested in this product, then, unfortunately, I think it's going to be very much of a challenge to be able to meet every single unit demand that's out there in the market. That's just a logistical impossibility. Unless we suddenly say, "Well we want to wait until June of next year to launch because we want to stockpile product," I don't think that's the approach we want to take.

Great thing they are concerned about the consumer. Really, are they nuts? Charging hundreds more than their competitors (one of which has a released product and one of which has a product which will be released near it that also has better press) for the console, and running a freaking shortage? They do realize that they aren't the only major player here, that they have next to no good press, and that doing this is likely to send people running to their competitors? They really don't seem to realize that they can't just jerk around with consumers like this without being jerked back at in return...I predict great profits from this one.

Re:They don't care... (1)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948259)

Great thing they are concerned about the consumer. Really, are they nuts? Charging hundreds more than their competitors (one of which has a released product and one of which has a product which will be released near it that also has better press) for the console, and running a freaking shortage?

In Sony's defense, they probably don't have the resources to produce as many units as they'd ideally like to. Economies of scale only apply up to a certain point and over a certain time frame. They probably can't simply hire a couple factories for just a few months to produce extra consoles for the launch except at prohibitive expense. Alternately the people in charge of researching such things at Sony may have a better handle on the likely demand that you think, it's possibly that they've accepted that their higher price point will result in somewhat lower initial sales and are underproducing to match.

I don't disagree that at least one of [over-priced console] and [possibly low initial shipments] is a mistake, however i expect that Sony has painted themselves into a corner at this point in that regard. It's probably far too late to take significant actions to affect either of those situations.

Re:They don't care... (1)

WaywardScythe (969624) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948976)

and running a freaking shortage?
Based on the responses from the majority around here they either (a) not going to buy one for hardware concerns, (b) not going to buy one because it's Sony, or (c) not going to buy one because 98% of gamers cannot afford it. So, by my calculations, 2% of gamers should easily be able to get one of the 2 million consoles in the initial shipment and everyone else is content with there decision to not buy one at all. It's a win/win for everyone! Sounds like Sony's got it right actually.

Sounds like JIT to me (1)

TommyBear (317561) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948489)

A manufacturing method called Just-In-Time is popular among Japanese and worldwide companies. Look here [wikipedia.org] for reference.

Basically, the strategy allows a company to avoid inventory costs and be more agile when it comes to shifting stock around territories (from ones that aren't selling to ones that are). Toyota use the method and I've seen it first hand. Basically you establish a small buffer (maybe a month before launch) and ship those launch territories, while keeping some in stock. You then watch your stock in those territories and produce units, just-in-time, to meet demand(in theory).

Re:Sounds like JIT to me (1)

LearningHard (612455) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948737)

Wow, you got the concept of JIT right but completely missed the implementation. JIT is an inventory process like you describe but when you are doing a major launch of a product you need a lot of that product on the shelves at the beginning. The buffer that Sony needs for that initial shock of the launch is going to be rather large and it is worrisome that they have not started building that buffer yet.

Re:Sounds like JIT to me (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948963)

The buffer that Sony needs for that initial shock of the launch is going to be rather large and it is worrisome that they have not started building that buffer yet.

Interesting. I'm not familiar with the manufacturing process myself. How many units do you feel they need and how far in advance of launch do you estimate they should have started production in order to have them ready?

Depends on a lot of factors (1)

BitterAndDrunk (799378) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949258)

Lots of things drill down to that decision, which is what a product manager's job essentially is.

Off the back of a napkin, you need to know:
Forecasted sales, by region
Distribution network capabilities
lead time of product manufacture, and an analysis of any potential long-lead parts. Long lead parts are any electronics product that potentially take 5-6 months or longer to acquire. I don't know what the allocation picture is on electronics right now (if there even is one) as I've been out of high tech for a little while.

JIT isn't a really great model, IMO. Its end result is the upstream suppliers (with less negotiating power than a Toyota or Sony) holds the excess inventory (and consequently, risk) but nothing really changes froma production standpoint.

A bit simplified, but that's what I've seen in the Real World.

Finally, the first production run is going to be painful, it always is. It's a little surprising that they're not starting manufacturing yet, and I'd expect it to begin immediately following Labor Day weekend if they expect to hit a Christmas release. But that's off the cuff - we don't know how many production facilities they've got, what they're average units/hr are, nor what they're distro network looks like. It could be a case where they have an exceedingly efficient distro network which is all cross-docking and freight breaking, so units can come into the states in small amounts and filter efficiently to the retailers. (I'd doubt it, however; it strikes me that you'd want to resell to WalMart, Meijer's, Best Buy, etc and force their distribution networks to do the dirty work)

Re:Sounds like JIT to me (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949210)

Toyota might not be a great example of the success of JIT production, seeing as how the demand for their Prius hybrids has far outstripped their ability to supply (in some parts of the United States at least), resulting in wait lists of a year or longer, and selling prices far above MSRP.

don't fret (4, Funny)

dolson (634094) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948524)

Everyone who has the money and the desire to spend it on this system need not worry. It doesn't take long to manufacture a dozen consoles.

Re:don't fret (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949394)

While I can't say for certain if I'll buy a PS3 (let the early adopter suckers beta test it first), I know that I want something that does more than just play games. I only have a finite amount of space and plug sockets by my TV and multi-function device is more useful to me. If the PS3 can play movies, stream (& rip) music, be a passable web browser and even possibly even support Linux (and by extension homebrew, emulation etc.), that makes it well worth the money.

At that point you're talking about something almost akin to the Intel Viiv architecture but undercutting it by a large margin. It is probably Viiv and Windows Media Center which forced the XBox 360 to have such crippled multi-media support. Let's hope Sony learn from their mistakes (and from the relatively liberal DRM in the PSP) and come up with the goods.

Zonked tag - worst possible spin again (0, Redundant)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#15948630)

Apply the Zonked tag, as once again the story with the worst possible spin has been used.

Sony may not be manufacturing quite yet, but does that matter if they can meet launch targets?

Some other headlines that would have works just as well for this same interview:

"Sony to launch online service day of console launch"

"Sony to provide downloadable PSP games this year"

or even just

"Kaz Hirai of Sony responds to Yankee Group forecast"

Re:Zonked tag - worst possible spin again (1)

jizziknight (976750) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949382)

Sony may not be manufacturing quite yet, but does that matter if they can meet launch targets?
Isn't that exactly the point of the article? As in, if they haven't started manufacturing yet, how can they expect to meet launch targets? Or, are they intentionally underproducing to cause a shortage and artificial sellouts? Or, does Sony have something up their sleeves that will allow them to put a shitton of PS3s together really fast? Etc, etc...

Seriously, these types of comments need to be modded off-topic or flamebait or something. Sure, we can call the editors' motives, skills, biases, etc. (sexual preferences, even?) into question, but that should be on articles that are bunk. This one however has some relevant info, and would be a legitimate concern for those of us (no matter how few there are) who actually want to get a PS3 at launch. (I personally will never buy one)

Are you hinting .... (3, Funny)

demonic-halo (652519) | more than 7 years ago | (#15949489)

Are you hinting that the PS3 is some sort of Vaporware?

It's real dammit. I believe in the blue ray!

Real PS3 facts pulled from experience and thin air (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15949670)

Fact 1 - the PS3 will sell pretty much every unit Sony can produce this Xmas (if they can get it manufactured. It may be late, don't be suprised.)
Fact 2 - Everyone that has a PS2 and loves it (and also uses it as their primary game machine) wants a PS3. (Just as PS1 owners wanted a PS2.)
Fact 3 - No one outside of Slashdot (and maybe Digg) gives a flying crap about "root-kits".
Fact 4 - The exclusive (TRUE exclusive) PS3 games (FF XIII, MGS4) will sell PS3 units to everyone that didn't buy a PS3 at launch.
Fact 5 - Average consumers don't want to pay 500 or 600 dollars for a game machine. However, they will. Simply because it is PlayStation 3.
Fact 6 - PS3 games, on the whole, will never actually look better than xBox 360 games, the video GPU's are just too similar.
Fact 7 - Fact 6 is meaningless, because people "Don't Care". All they will know is that PS3 games "Look frikin REAL, man!!"
Fact 8 - Tech savvy people (such as slashdotters) will own all three new consoles anyway, and then lie in the /. forums about how "I played a PS3 at a kiosk at Game Spot, I wouldn't own one if they came free in McDonald's Happy Meals!!"
Fact 9 - These facts WILL prove to be suprisingly accurate come February 2007.

Re:Real PS3 facts pulled from experience and thin (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15950065)

Fact 1 - the PS3 will sell pretty much every unit Sony can produce this Xmas (if they can get it manufactured. It may be late, don't be suprised.)

No doubt, the PS3 will probably be very difficult to produce and will be in very short supply.

Fact 2 - Everyone that has a PS2 and loves it (and also uses it as their primary game machine) wants a PS3. (Just as PS1 owners wanted a PS2.)

That's not a fact, being that I own and love my PS2 and have no desire to purchase a PS3 I am a example which negates your everyone claim. Ultimately, everyone I know that owns a PS2 and heard the price of a PS3 refuses to buy one, even the really rich (always early adopt) crowd; this might change 18 months down the road, but if early adopters do not buy the PS3 it will have disapointing game sales and it's "exclusive" games will become not so exclusive. The difference between a Sony system and a Nintendo system is people buy a Nintendo system for games that can only be bought for a Nintendo System (first party games), a Sony system is bought for games that can be bought (in theory) for other systems (third party games).

Fact 3 - No one outside of Slashdot (and maybe Digg) gives a flying crap about "root-kits".

This one is also false; most of the people who had their computer damaged were those with poor computer skills. When these people when to their geeky friends to fix their computer they found out about the rootkit. The average responce was "Why would Sony, a respected company, want to install a virus on my computer? I don't think I'll buy another Sony product"

Fact 4 - The exclusive (TRUE exclusive) PS3 games (FF XIII, MGS4) will sell PS3 units to everyone that didn't buy a PS3 at launch.

Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy have been finding their way to other consoles lately; these titles are not tied to Sony, they are launched on the market leading platform. If Sony is not leading in market share come November 2007 (which they probably won't be) expect to see these games delayed to be released on other platforms.

Fact 5 - Average consumers don't want to pay 500 or 600 dollars for a game machine. However, they will. Simply because it is PlayStation 3.

At one point in time you could say that Nintendo's consoles would sell because they have "Nintendo" written on them; brand loyalty is a very difficult thing to maintain in highly competative markets. Don't expect too many people to say "It has no games I want, and is really expensive, but that Sony logo is cool so I'll buy it"

Fact 6 - PS3 games, on the whole, will never actually look better than xBox 360 games, the video GPU's are just too similar.

I'd actually argue it is because we are dealing with diminishing returns on system power ... but this is still (basically) true.

Fact 7 - Fact 6 is meaningless, because people "Don't Care". All they will know is that PS3 games "Look frikin REAL, man!!"

Maybe, but at the same time animation is really becomming a problem in these "ultra-realistic" games. I don't remember the name of the game, but the screen shots for it are amazing but the video looks like crap because of how out of sync the animation is to the voice; rather than looking like normal (bad) game animation it looks really creepy. I'm probably alone, but was so offended (bad word for it) by how it moved that I couldn't play that game.

Fact 8 - Tech savvy people (such as slashdotters) will own all three new consoles anyway, and then lie in the /. forums about how "I played a PS3 at a kiosk at Game Spot, I wouldn't own one if they came free in McDonald's Happy Meals!!"

Maybe, I think you'll see a large portion of people owning an XBox 360 + Wii or a PS3 + Wii but I think the number of people who own an XBox 360 and PS3 will be pretty small. The reason for this is that the combined cost is insane ($1000), if you include basic accessories (like extra controllers) it simply is too expensive; also the number of games that are going to be exclusive is pretty small because the cost to develop games for XBox 360, PS3 and High End PC are so high that the risk is too great to release it on one platform.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...