Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Linux Hardware Looks at Core 2

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the capitalism-at-work dept.

192

Penguin Lover writes "Linux Hardware has just posted a new story on how Intel's new Conroe performs under Linux. From the article: 'Now is a great time to be CPU shopping because no matter which side of the isle you look on, you have great choice for both CPUs and motherboards. Along with Intel's chipset offerings, keep in mind that NVIDIA has the nForce series for Intel CPUs which would give you SLI support for all your Quake Wars and UT2007 gaming needs.'"

cancel ×

192 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

which side of the what? (4, Informative)

njvic (614279) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961528)

Isle? Come on /. editors! It's aisle!

Re:which side of the what? (4, Funny)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961557)

Give them a little bit of credit. Maybe they live on a small island, and the only computer shops are on either side of the isle.

Re:which side of the what? (5, Insightful)

njvic (614279) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961578)

Actually now that I have RTFA, I see the spelling error is in the story, so the /. editors (or Penguin Lover) should then add [sic] to the quote.

Re:which side of the what? (5, Insightful)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961614)

You're assuming that Taco&Co actually have any real editorial experience and even know what [sic] means...

Re:which side of the what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961811)

Every time I ask someone what it means, I get a blank look. What does [sic] mean?

Re:which side of the what? (2, Informative)

matthew5 (916509) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961838)

Re:which side of the what? (2, Funny)

pizza_milkshake (580452) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962121)

..."how Intel's new Conroe performs under Linux"

Internal Server Error

so... not so well?

Re:which side of the what? (3, Informative)

wirelessbuzzers (552513) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961844)

It's Latin for "such" or "thus". If you quote something with an error or otherwise weird construction, you write "[sic]" to indicate that the quote appears that way in the text you're quoting.

Re:which side of the what? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961877)

Also note that it's placed within square brackets. These are typically used for editor's notes.

Re:which side of the what? (5, Funny)

skoaldipper (752281) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961612)

Give them a little bit of credit. Maybe they live on a small island, and the only computer shops are on either side of the isle.
I heard the Skipper is trying to pass off the boat radio as a computer at his shop, while the Professor is selling a sweet beowulf coconut cluster running linux on the other.

Offering Porn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15962225)

Unfortunately, the only porn on the whole island is from the millionaire's wife!

Re:which side of the what? (2, Funny)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961615)

I've always preferred shopping on the windward side of the isle. The leeward side of the isle always seems to have higher prices.

Re:which side of the what? (2, Funny)

Gospodin (547743) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961907)

Maybe they're writing from the UK...

Re:which side of the what? (1)

Dun Malg (230075) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962420)

Maybe they're writing from the UK...
It's spelled "aisle" in the UK as well.

Apart from gaming (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961529)

I'm really wondering why I should upgrade my current hardware (five-year-old Athlon t-bird 900, GeForce2 Pro)

Re:Apart from gaming (2, Insightful)

fabs64 (657132) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961544)

To run a decent sized lcd at native resolution would be a start... but in all seriousness for anything other than gaming you're right, there's no real need to keep up with the cycle

Re:Apart from gaming (2, Informative)

LDoggg_ (659725) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961923)

To run a decent sized lcd at native resolution would be a start

A card two or three generations before that(tnt1 or tnt2) wouldn't have a problem running at a 1600x1200
His Gforce2 probably has 32 or 64 megs of ram, plenty for even a large LCD panel.
I'd probably be interested in upgrading that CPU before the video card, but likely have to do both as newer boards are using pcix over agp.

Re:Apart from gaming (3, Informative)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961559)

Compiling anything, encoding video, ripping CDs to MP3, large relational database queries, scientific computing, etc.

Oh, you meant for reading email and surfing the net? Yes, your hardware is fine.

Re:Apart from gaming (2, Funny)

eddy (18759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961596)

> ripping CDs to MP3

Might be true, LAME isn't exactly a speed monster in high quality mode. On the other hand, oggenc/lancer [nifty.com] is so fast it's almost silly. Upgrade to Vorbis, save money on hardware :-)

Re:Apart from gaming (4, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961658)

"save money on hardware"

Especially iPods!

Vorbis-players für alles. (3, Informative)

eddy (18759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961761)

Yeah definitely save the money on the iPods, the iAudios [cowonamerica.com] are much better anyway. I suggest the U3 if you want a good flash-based Vorbis-player.

Re:Vorbis-players für alles. (1)

pipatron (966506) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961842)

I can only agree to this, not to mention the support for FLAC.

There's no good reason to use Vorbis (2, Interesting)

October_30th (531777) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961804)

Upgrade to Vorbis, save money on hardware


Yeah, right. Voluntarily limit how and where you can listen to your music. Really smart.

I regret the day when I decided, in a silly stroke of idealism, to encode all my CDs with oggenc. Later, after getting frustrated by the lack of support for the format, I had to encode them all over again.

Face it. MP3 is a de facto standard and even though it's patented, what difference does it make? Does it stop you from listening to mp3 encoded music at home? No. Does it limit your options when purchasing a player? No.

Unless you're a flaming idealist and are willing to go through the extra mile and look for ogg-friendly players, there's no good reason to start using Vorbis.

Re:There's no good reason to use Vorbis (1)

suggsjc (726146) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962126)

A troll it was, but sadly it was a truthful one.

mp3 is the standard and although it has its flaws isn't all that bad. What it does have going for it is almost universal hardware support...which in my opinion makes it more "free" in that I can use it anywhere. OGG is great, but like parent stated, it can be a pain to find players (portable ones) that support it. Notice I said pain not impossible.

Except quality, speed, freedom and great players. (1)

eddy (18759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962308)

>mp3 is the standard and although it has its flaws isn't all that bad.

The same thing can be said about Internet Explorer vs Other Browsers. "Bohoo, IE isn't all that bad. Installing alternative browsers is a pain (notice I said pain, not impossible). Bohooo, life is so hard, I might have to plan one step ahead, push one more mouse button, bohoo..". Man, that's just fucking lazy. Nobody said having a sense of quality [hydrogenaudio.org] and a little fire for what's right would be the easiest way to glide through life.

Feels pretty darn good to not be a punter of the mp3 licensing consortium though. YMMV.

Think ahead. (1)

eddy (18759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962128)

That's not how the smart kids do it; we encode to FLAC and then to whatever target format and quality level we need. Since oggenc2 supports FLAC as input, including the transfer of tags, it's all very comfortable. The safety of bit-perfect backups with the comfort of being able to pick and chose bitrates for the portable player. Golden.

Re:Apart from gaming (1)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961642)

The new CPUs may be great, the motherboards available now are good and fairly cheap, the video cards are as expensive as ever, but memory has went up in cost by $20 [newegg.com] or more just in the last month. Now is not the time to upgrade to the latest & greatest. Get last year's (or even the year before that) best Linux-friendly hardware and buy used memory.

Re:Apart from gaming (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961680)

You'd buy generation-old hardware to avoid spending an extra $20?

We live in different universes. I think that I've been working too long or something and forget what it's like being poor.

Re:Apart from gaming (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962071)

I just checked the prices in Pounds Sterling at crucial.com/uk, and found that it had gone down since I last checked, a couple of weeks ago (when I noticed that it had also gone down from a couple of weeks previously. Your comment, therefore, surprised me. I finally tracked down the answer [x-rates.com] . The US Dollar fell sharply in the last month (the graphs against other currencies show similar pictures). The memory prices were probably the first to be affected, because those prices have a habit of fluctuating quite widely so suppliers tend to keep their inventories low.

Re:Apart from gaming (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961699)

Gaming?

Isn't this a Linux thread?

Re:Apart from gaming (1)

NsOmNiA91130 (942812) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962092)

You don't game on Linux? I have Steam running under WINE. And RCT3. I still use Windows for Eve Online and BF2 though.

Bang for the buck (5, Interesting)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961543)

The Core2 E6600 seems to be a nice bang for the money as it is right around the middle of the currently available speed grades and is the cheapest iteration with 4MB of L2 cache. It also seems to be competitive with dual core AMD products (my usual choice) that are substantially more expensive. It's definitely a buyer's market these days...let the price war begin! :)

Re:Bang for the buck (2, Insightful)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961621)

Depends on the usage I guess. I can pick up a 1ghz duron at my local university surplus for next to nothing, and it will run MS Word and Mozilla just as well as the latest octa-core processors.

Re:Bang for the buck (4, Insightful)

qortra (591818) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962058)

Of course it won't run them as well. Clearly, you've never tried to open a large document (100+ pages) with pictures, tables, and indexes using Word (or especially OpenOffice which saves more money than a hardware upgrade would cost). It's a nightmare; imagine trying to drag an 18 wheeler with a Geo Metro. Even webpages can be a bit taxing these days. A sufficiently complex flash animation (yes, I hate flash too), or even AJAX webapp can bring a 1Ghz duron to its knees, especially when the rendering gets complex; Google fortunately has fairly simple AJAX pages, but others are not so kind.

Moreover, there is nothing like using an SMP system: either two processors or a single dual-core (hyperthreading is exempt from this comment). Having all those piddly little background tasks on one core means that the second core is available just to obey your whims. The latency in executing business and web apps with a dual-core is unparalleled.

Clearly you're cheap, and I can respect that (heaven knows I'm almost as poor as they get). Perhaps you have a point that the $350 processor that the grandparent spoke of is not in the optimal point of the price/performance curve, but even for people that just use Word and Firefox, you can't claim that a new $150 dual-core won't run stuff significantly faster than Duron; and you don't even have to blow that extra imaginary money on an octa-core[sic] processor to get the extra horsepower.

In either case, I consider your minimalist elitism offtopic.

Re:Bang for the buck (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962289)

I've had problems playing certain videos with a 1GHz Duron - some of the "project offset" videos for example.

Looks like soon would be a good time to replace that machine...

The Core 2 is a better performing CPU than the X2, but I'm not too confident about the chipset or the first release yet...

Re:Bang for the buck (1)

slowbad (714725) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961772)

The Core2 E6600 seems to be a nice bang for the money

That's what the Dell phone rep told me about their laptop. First time in years it turns out that a salesman wasn't lying about a product.

Re:Bang for the buck (2, Informative)

subsolar2 (147428) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961818)

The Core2 E6600 seems to be a nice bang for the money as it is right around the middle of the currently available speed grades and is the cheapest iteration with 4MB of L2 cache. It also seems to be competitive with dual core AMD products (my usual choice) that are substantially more expensive. It's definitely a buyer's market these days...let the price war begin! :)
Actually if you include the motherboard price AMD X2 chips are more competetive since my looking around show Intel Core2 compatible MB costing $50-100 more than similar AMD socket AM2 boards with socket 939 being cheaper yet.

Re:Bang for the buck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961892)

The core2 is pin compatible with the first gen core processor. Chances are that all you need is a bios update and you can use a core2 in any available core compatible motherboard. So I think your "but wait when you include the motherboard price" argument is somewhat irrelevant.

Re:Bang for the buck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15962044)

And you have proven you know nothing of the current motherboards. Very few are compatible with the old chipsets. I can only imagine the reasons, and many more do not support the higher DDR2 speeds, if you decide to go all the way to DDR2 800.

Re:Bang for the buck (1)

qbwiz (87077) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962280)

It's relevant to people who don't happen to have a Core processor and motherboard lying around.

Re:Bang for the buck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15962414)

But they'd have an AMD X2 and motherboard laying around, right?

It would be even nicer (2, Interesting)

labratuk (204918) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962161)

if all Core2s didn't have built-in TPM.

'fraid that rules it out for me.

the isle (5, Funny)

Anoraknid the Sartor (9334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961547)

which isle would that be?

Penguin Isle?

Isle be going now...

Re:the isle (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961700)

which isle would that be?

Isle of View, man.

Re:the isle (1)

Anoraknid the Sartor (9334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961750)

Ugh!

Isle O'Thpuns.?

Dontcha just love... (4, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961592)

I like the "NOW is a great time to buy..." argument for anything that improves steadily over time. Can you point to a time in recent computer history where "NOW" wasn't the best time to purchase a new rig? It can't possibly be news to readers here that the processor-power-to-dollar-ratio is at its best point ever, can it? It would be like saying "NOW is the best time to buy a new car", as if there has been a point in the last 20 years where the general trend of car quality has dropped, but even more ridiculous because of Moore's Law.

Re:Dontcha just love... (4, Insightful)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961628)

I know a friend of mine got burned when buying his rig about 2 years ago, PCI-e had just come out, and he didn't expect it to kill AGP in a matter of days. So, I'd say that was a bad time to buy a midrange system. (PCI-e was at the expensive end at the time)

Re:Dontcha just love... (2, Insightful)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961650)

386sx, 486SLC, P60-wienie-roaster-edition, early Intel-EM64T. I think those were points not to "Buy Now".

Re:Dontcha just love... (2, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961778)

I guess I wasn't calling 1993 "recent". I had a similar experience, buying a $3000 Macintosh 68040 just before the PowerPC came out.

There is always bad hardware out there, but the prices for existing stuff have consistently trended down. When the P60 came out, it was expensive as all hell, but that was a great time to buy a 486 machine - there was serious competition between Intel, AMD, and Cyrix. The prices were at historic lows. Yeah the Prescott with 64-bit extensions was crap, but that didn't make it a "bad time to buy", just a bad product to buy. It would not have been a bad time to buy an AMD 64-bit rig.

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962143)

Fair enough. I probably sent my IBM account rep to Aruba on Opteron purchases at that time, as opposed to Xeons or the new EM64Ts. On the other hand, there was the intial changeover to SATA drives if you want a more recent example; good hardware now that drivers are everywhere, but kind of expensive and difficult when new. That was a case of much better to wait six months, and put off other purchases because of the promise of the new technology once the first wave of bugs were squashed.

Of course, a truly bad time to buy was when that semiconductor plant that made memory chips caught on fire. That was a good time to be consolidating old equipment to get memory. When Everyone was shipping IBM DeathStar drives, wasn't such a good time either. (I spent a lot of time with a screwdriver in hand during that period).

Yes, I can. (4, Funny)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961694)

Can you point to a time in recent computer history where "NOW" wasn't the best time to purchase a new rig?

Say it with me now: Itanium.

Re:Yes, I can. (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961984)

Say it with me now: "Nobody bought those."

Seriously, what was it about the introduction of the Itanium that made it a bad time to buy a PC? I mean, I don't even think it was even marketed as a consumer product.

Re:Yes, I can. (1)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962171)

Even Itaniums had their place. For us they marked the end of buying big Sun servers.

But yes, unless you lived in Duluth, Minnesota and were too cheap to pay for oil or gas heat, then there was no reason to buy an Itanium.

Re:Dontcha just love... (4, Informative)

Konster (252488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961715)

Yeah... 4 weeks ago the AMD 3700+ was $200.

Now it's $99.

NOW seems to be a pretty good time to pick up on decent processing power. NOW I can get a decent CPU for $99, a 320 GB drive for $95. ...and the list goes on. Silent 7600 GS for $110. Top name DVD recorders all day long for $28.

I just built that system for less than $600 and it uttlerly vaporizes the box I built last year at double the price.

But you are still on a 486 waiting for the right NOW time to upgrade.

Re:Dontcha just love... (0)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961916)

LOL, thanks for proving my point with numbers for me. Yes, NOW the chips are $99 and last month they were $200.

Re:Dontcha just love... (2, Funny)

Iamthefallen (523816) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962117)

But the Now two months ago was a pretty crappy Now to buy a computer in compared to the Now, that's well, Now.

Now is also not as good a time as the Now that will be in just another month or two when Core 2 motherboard prices drop. That Now is close enough to Now that it's probably worth waiting until then, ehr, the Now then.

Hmm, sounds familiar...

Dark Helmet: What the hell am I looking at? When does this happen in the movie?
Colonel Sandurz: Now. You're looking at now sir. Everything that happens now, is happening now.
Dark Helmet: What happened to then?
Colonel Sandurz: We passed then.
Dark Helmet: When?
Colonel Sandurz: Just now. We're at now, now.
Dark Helmet: Go back to then!
Colonel Sandurz: When?
Dark Helmet: Now.
Colonel Sandurz: Now?
Dark Helmet: Now!
Colonel Sandurz: I can't.
Dark Helmet: Why?
Colonel Sandurz: We missed it.
Dark Helmet: When?
Colonel Sandurz: Just now.
Dark Helmet: When will then be now?
Colonel Sandurz: Soon.
Dark Helmet: How soon?
Video Operator: Sir!
[Dark Helmet has becomed far too confused and everyone now ignores him even though he's center screen]
Dark Helmet: What?
Video Operator: We've identified their location.
Dark Helmet: Where?

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

Mr2cents (323101) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961728)

The time where I bought a 16MB dimm for 400 Euro's and two weeks later they were selling at 50 Euro's in the same store? But that was so long ago that the Euro didn't even exist yet.

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

Snorpus (566772) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962079)

I think the $1K I spent on a 425MB HD for my '030 Mac IIsi was perhaps sub-optimum... even for 1992.

Re:Dontcha just love... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961891)

"Can you point to a time in recent computer history where "NOW" wasn't the best time to purchase a new rig?"

The day before AMD slashed it's AM2 CPU prices by around 50%. Is that recent enough?

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961953)

And what was it about the day before AMD slashed it's prices that made it worse than any time in history before that?

NOW will always be worse than LATER (that was my original point), but you have to buy sometime.

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961938)

Actually, I always say the opposite to my friends and family -- if you can do without it, don't buy it till you need it because it will be faster & cheaper by then.

Don't need that new hard drive right now? Wait a little and you might get a 500GB drive for what you would've paid for that new 200GB one. Ditto on CPUs, etc. If you think you might like it later, buy it later. It'll be better or at least cheaper by the time you get it.

You're wrong. (1)

edxwelch (600979) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961969)

There has been no, previous price war like this before, where the flagship products of both AMD and Intel are being heavily discounted.

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

dc29A (636871) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962164)

I like the "NOW is a great time to buy..." argument for anything that improves steadily over time. Can you point to a time in recent computer history where "NOW" wasn't the best time to purchase a new rig?

Plenty of times. Usually when new architectures are coming out, Socket 754, 939, 775, AM2 and whatnot. During these times the generation of sockets before the "new" one is pretty cheap. Also the new socket might be a transitional socket like 754 that won't last for long time.

Now is NOT always the best time to buy a new rig. ;)

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

FellowConspirator (882908) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962296)

Well, there really are "NOW is a great time to buy..." moments. It's not when the vendor's say it, and not necessarily when a reviewer says it either.

It's a great time to buy when: at least one competitor is under scrutiny for investors to show performance (incentive to do anything to boost sales), when product quality and features reach a level of parity (price becomes dominant deciding factor in purchase), when volume sales approach parity (more price pressure plus looking for new market angles), and as a product matures (prices decline with product age).

Now is a good time to buy because you really do get more value (based on what's available) for your money because there's strong economic pressures that favor the purchaser over the vendor. That's not to say that just before the next quarterly report it won't be a better time.

But you are right, the market swings quite a bit. If one player becomes dominant, or if a clearly superior product evolves, or development slows, then price pressures relax and the value you receive diminishes.

Re:Dontcha just love... (1)

cnettel (836611) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962371)

Uh, what about a Pentium D a month ago? (before the most recent price cuts)

Constant Battle (4, Insightful)

DarkNemesis618 (908703) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961593)

This only extends the constant battle between AMD & Intel. Intel comes up with something better than AMD...shortly thereafter, AMD comes up with something that beats that out...and so on and so on. While I have not personally tested any of the Conroe chips, I do have 2 linux boxes, one using an Intel P4 & the other an AMD Athlon64. Both run Ubuntu perfectly. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is simply that in a month or two, or when AMD comes out with their next line of CPUs, the discussion will just restart.

Re:Constant Battle (1)

skoaldipper (752281) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961639)

What discussion? Linux, nForce + nvidia card, AMD64.

Q.E.D.

Re:Constant Battle (1)

DarkNemesis618 (908703) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961710)

pretty much just the competition between AMD & Intel

Re:Constant Battle (2, Insightful)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961684)

I think the significance of the Conroe is that it is an entirely new architecture and it caught AMD off guard as their new architecture won't be out until next year. Because of this newer better chip by Intel selling at a moderate price and AMD has no product to counter it, the only defence they have is extremely reduced prices. Reduced prices means that it is a better time to buy, say an AMDx2 4200+ now than it was say, 3 weeks ago. I imagine that Intel is reducing prices on their current lines to counter AMD's counter, thus it is a better time to buy a computer now.

I imagine things will balance out once AMD releases the 4x4, and the difference in competitive performance is smaller.

Re:Constant Battle (2, Insightful)

fitten (521191) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961794)

You realize that a 4x4 machine with cost several thousands of dollars (USD) and that there are only a couple/three games that are multithreaded, right? Not only that but from everything that has been released so far, the 4x4 looks like a panic stricken kneejerk reaction to Core 2 Duo and seems to be nothing more than a (potentially cheaper) dual socket, dual core Opteron that uses unregistered memory on a motherboard with two PCIe x16 slots on it... these already exist except for the 2xx(x) Opterons that use unregistered memory. In other words, 4x4 is just a marketing brand for something that is very expensive to entice rich fanbois to buy their kit.

Re:Constant Battle (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961956)

Caught off guard? Um, try again. Just because a company doesn't releae a new core every 8 days doesn't mean they're not cooking something up. A big part of my job at AMD is performance analysis. We do a lot of studies which get fed through various channels to better optimize the final design.

I've known about Core 2 for at least the better part of this year now. I suspect [*] that AMD mgmt knew about it as well, just a hunch.

I have to object to the "no product to counter it". Aside from the shared L2, Core2 actually SHARES a lot of the design with the K7/K8 design. The shared L2 is a mixed blessing. There are applications for which it is good and applications for which it is totally bad. That and when you [ever] get into multi-processing HT is the way to go. Front side busses are a bit lame nowadays.

Tom

[*] My opinions are my own, yada yada.

Re:Constant Battle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961741)

You are absolutely right. Thanks for pointing out the obvious!

Re:Constant Battle (1)

fitten (521191) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961820)

There have been exceptions... P4 with RDRAM? expensive (more expensive than other solutions) and dead end. Maybe you're too young to remember the DRAM shortage from a decade or so ago where DRAM of all kinds got expensive for a little while (until the resultant production ramp up caused the glut). That was not a good time to buy either.

But generally, yes, over longer periods of time, prices on mainstream kit drops.

Core 2 Duo : Does it run UBUNTU ??? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961616)

Core 2 Duo : Does it run UBUNTU ???

Nothing else matters, trust me !!!

Re:Core 2 Duo : Does it run UBUNTU ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961696)

Confession is part of redemption.

I spanked my son the other night as a last resort. He cried and I felt terrible and I still feel terrible.

So there you have it.

Other then that, yeah, I am sure it will run UBUNTU but I doubt the X server will work.

Not yet, but (closed source) drivers are coming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15962003)

Drivers are needed to effectively use this under Linux, and Ubuntu is included. Ubuntu is a kid-version of Linux, mind you, so it's the last to get updated.

Back and forth (5, Insightful)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961636)

There was one really important point at the end of the article that should not be overlooked:

Also keep in mind that AMD has yet to go to a 65nm manufacturing process.

AMD remains competitive with Intel, even though they are still at 90nm. Speed goes up and power goes down with die scaling! Now, clearly the Core2 is the fastest processor you can buy today, and Intel is (smartly) offering speed grades in the mid-price range in order to try and "buy back" the enthusiasts. But AMD will get a nice speed bump when they bring 65nm on line. Of course Intel is not standing still either, as they are aggressively moving towards 45nm.

I love capitalism.

Re:Back and forth (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961779)

>I love capitalism.

You mean "market economy", because not all market economys are capitalisim. In the capialism is capital the only god, while some market economys exists, where capital is only a normal player on the market, so that there are no need to sacrifice Humans to make more Money.

A Market Economy without Capitalism:
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/onken/engl. htm [fu-berlin.de]

Re:Back and forth (0, Offtopic)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961931)

I knew my capitalism comment would bring a reply refering to the "sacrifice of Humans" or some other such dogma. /. is so predictable. And as is also usually the case, the reply comes anonymously.

Re:Back and forth (3, Interesting)

MrFlibbs (945469) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961940)

A good point, but keep in mind that the performance and power differences between Prescott (90nm) and Cedarmill (65nm) were decidely underwhelming. The greater leakage current in Intel's 65nm process ate into most of the gains from the smaller process. It did make the die smaller and thus cheaper, but not much better in either performance or power consumption.

Perhaps the AMD/IBM SOI process will do better at 65nm in controlling leakage current and provide the needed performance boost. Intel plans to release the 45nm Penryn in 2H07, and claims to have greatly improved the leakage current situation. AMD needs to leapfrom Conroe's performance with their 65nm part to remain competitive. Schedule is critical here: if Intel is late, AMD will regain momemtum; if AMD is late, Penryn will make the 65nm AMD part unattractive.

Re:Back and forth (2, Interesting)

MancunianMaskMan (701642) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961954)

as someone from a related industry, I know thatr what intel calls '65nm' by virtue of gate length, is not 'as small' as your next fabber's '65nm'. It serves to impress the shareholders, though. Take these numbers with a grain of salt.

Re:Back and forth (1)

edxwelch (600979) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962036)

I remember reading in the one of the Analyst Day presentations Hector specifically said that 65nm wouldn't bring huge speed benefits. The main benefit of the 65nm is that you can fit more chips on a wafer making them cheaper to produce. Probably also it will be easier to increase the cache (currently the Conroe has double the cache size of AMD chips)

Re:Back and forth (1)

Mark Gillespie (866733) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962297)

"AMD remains competitive with Intel". Not sure where you got that from. 30% more power, 30% less heat from a Conroe compared to a AM2 chip. I put that down to the move to 65nm, something that AMD should also get when they move to the same process. However you imply that they will get more.

Re:Back and forth (2, Interesting)

fitten (521191) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962417)

Don't forget also that there are plenty of people who are getting 3.6GHz and higher on Core2Duo on standard air coolers (some hit 4GHz) and all this is on 65nm processes. Intel has clearly and obviously launched these at competitive speeds (just enough to trump AMD parts) while still having lots of headroom. As soon as AMD launches their 3.0GHz or 3.2GHz parts, Intel will release 3.33GHz Core2Duos... just enough to stay a little ahead of AMD. Intel has enough headroom to do this for the next year with current cores on their current process (65nm). The move to 45nm will just give them a little more headroom to continue the game.

965 chipset (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961690)

Anyone got the SATA drives hanging off the 965 controller to be visible with Linux? I have tried Abit and Gigabyte Conroe boards with 965 (ICH8) controllers and neither show the SATA drives. And the PATA port isn't seen either :(

But what compiler flags to use? (4, Interesting)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961701)

I'm going to buy an e6600-based desktop in the winter, and I'm wondering if GCC will add tuning for the Core 2 processors. My guess is that '-Os -march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse' is the way to do it now in 32-bit mode, but there have been enough changes in the Core 2 to make for a new DFA profile, no? I thought they radically revamped the Pentium3 core, adding execution units and such.

I just rebuilt my Core (1) Duo laptop with the aforementioned options and it seems to get me the most bang for my buck.

From what I've read, compiling and running in 32-bit mode is still the best choice for now, the Core 2 is a lot better than the EM64T pentium 4 at running 64-bit code, but still not as fast as just using the 32-bit code (stuff like video encoding is happening in the 128-bit vector unit anyway, and I don't need more than 4GB addressable space).

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (1)

Agelmar (205181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961784)

No, the way to do it is -march=nocona

Then, if you want to do 32-bit, just do -m32, and -m64 for 64-bit

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (1)

Agelmar (205181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961800)

Also, you should note that in 64-bit mode, there are more registers available. If you're running a native 64-bit environment, there's a good chance the same app recompiled as a 64-bit app will run marginally faster.

At least, that's been my experience. (Running core 2 extreme on gentoo)

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (1)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961876)

I've been looking at benchmarks and such and 64-bit is faster by a few percent, because of the extra registers and some ops fitting into one instruction rather than two, but the difference in convenience for me is HUGE. I primarily use this machine as my workstation, and I encode a fair amount of video on it. If my encoding takes a few extra minutes and I can still use the Adobe Flash plugin and VMWare Workstation 5, I'm a happy camper. Its worth staying in 32-bit mode until everything I need is 64-bit native.

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (3, Informative)

Agelmar (205181) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961944)

I downloaded the 32-bit precompiled version of firefox, and was able to install the flash plugin into that.

Actually, for me, 64-bit is entirely convenient. I just type "emerge mozilla" and it works ;-) Haven't tried VMWare though

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961947)

vmware server is quite happy to run on an amd64 machine

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (2, Informative)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961851)

I thought 'nocona' would get you all the instruction sets you wanted, but the execution core and scheduling of the Core 2 are much closer to the Pentium-M. You might be better off specifying 'Pentium-M' and using switches to enable SSE3. The Core and Core 2 are much closer to the i686 (P3) than they are to the NetBurst (P4) under the hood, even though the Core series can chew on a lot of the newer SIMD instructions and shares an FSB with some Pentium 4s.

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (1)

hkultala (69204) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961791)

> From what I've read, compiling and running in 32-bit mode is still the best choice for now,
> the Core 2 is a lot better than the EM64T pentium 4 at running 64-bit code,
> but still not as fast as just using the 32-bit code
> (stuff like video encoding is happening in the 128-bit vector unit anyway,
> and I don't need more than 4GB addressable space). .. but that 128-bit vector unit has twice the number of registers when it's on 64-bit mode.

(though usage of these extra registers makes the instruction decoder choke a bit on core2, which is propably the reason why some code runs faster on 32-bit mode than 64-bit mode)

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (2)

fitten (521191) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961850)

Don't forget that Core 2 Duo's SSE unit can retire an instruction per clock now (as opposed to every other clock as previous Intel chips (and AMD ones)). I'm not sure if gcc 'knows' about that, though, so it may not schedule SSE instructions back-to-back as it should (resulting in lower SSE/fpu performance than it could achieve).

Re:But what compiler flags to use? (1)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961895)

That's exactly what I'm worried about. The GCC developers still allow new DFA profiles to be added during point-releases. Someone ought to write one for these new CPUs so we can get the best buck:bang ratio.

AMD EE and EESFF not available in retail channels (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15961803)

yet as far as I can see. So low power AMD cpus is just a theoretical possibility.

But have you actually tried to buy one? (3, Informative)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 8 years ago | (#15961998)

>>> 'Now is a great time to be CPU shopping... you have great choice for both CPUs and motherboards.... keep in mind that NVIDIA has the nForce series for Intel CPUs which would give you SLI support for all your Quake Wars and UT2007 gaming needs

Umm nope. Iv'e been trying to buy the bits to make a no-compromises gaming PC and can't get anywhere at all.
Products that have been actually reviewed, benchmarked and advertised for weeks but are still not available to actually buy include:
* a retail core2 X6800 CPU (I want the official fan too)
* any motherboard with Nvidia 590 sli intel ed. chipset
* the fastest memory (corsair 6400c3)
and finally not yet reviewed but:
* the new Nvidia GPU that will do directX 10 (for vista comaptability)
If you were to buy a non-directx 10 top-end GPU now you'd be crazy.

The worst offender is Intel. I don't know why even now about a month after the core2 launch you still can't find a retail x6800 extreme anywhere. I'm guessing intel are just letting the big builders like Dell grab the entire supply still. Intel shouldn't just feed those guys without putting some out on the street too.

Conroe performance for developers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15962060)

Wow, what a letdown! I thought I was finally going to get to see how Conroe performs at compilation, with some different -j settings on make. I see a LinuxHardware Conroe review, see optimization flags right there at the top; and think surely they'll pit the processors against eachother for a test at the compilation of a major project such as the Linux kernel. Nope! A bunch more enthusiast benchmarks. I'm really sick of that. SpecViewPerf? Come on, even LinuxHardware forgets about developers? Besides a few inexacting forum posts, I have yet to see anybody do compilation benchmarks with Conroe. LinuxHardware, you suck.

povray & oggenc single threaded? what? (1)

t35t0r (751958) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962070)

These programs may not fork() but they probably pthread_create() so I wouldn't go around saying that they are single threaded, esp the ray tracer.

What I found to be the most interesting finding is the performance of athlon64 and core2duo in 32 vs 64bit mode. Athlon64 have better 64bit performance/price even if they have slightly slower benchmarks. Also I think we need more benchmarks for low cost processors, you know the ones that average users purchase. I'm sick of benchmarks of ferrari's vs lamborghini's if you know what I mean.

Yeah but.. (0, Offtopic)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 8 years ago | (#15962120)

This is nice and all, but when is nvidia going to release drivers for X.org 7.1? I've been without real graphics drivers for about a month now, its getting old fast.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>