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75 comments

Win Prices?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985208)

I LOVE winning prices. They are my favorite.

Re:Win Prices?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15989342)

Oh! Oh! Oh! I want $9.99!!!!

Cue trolls in 3, 2, 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985209)

I hope Novell has plenty of moderators.

Re:Cue trolls in 3, 2, 1 (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985349)

Novell just became the MySpace for /. moderators.

Useful (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985210)

You can also win prices

Just what I need, more prices.

Re:Useful (1)

legoburner (702695) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985300)

Shame they dont have my favourite price, 0.00. Back to kubuntu!

Re:Useful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985607)

*unwraps package, pulls out card*

I got $67.33, which one did you get, maybe we can trade!

PRICES........... COLLECT 'EM ALL!

Other prizes. (prices?) (2, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985217)

Errr - thanks for mentioning the SLED licenses, but the other prizes (that people would actually want) are:

Prize/Odds of Winning: There are 20 tier 3 prizes to be awarded, 6 tier 2 prizes, and 3 tier 1 prizes. Tier 3 prizes are Apple® 2GB Nano iPods . They have an approximate value of US $199. Tier 2 prizes are Olympus® EVOLT E-500 Digital Cameras. They have an approximate value of of $800 US. Tier 1 prizes are HP Compaq nc6400 Notebooks . They have an approximate value of $2,000 US. The odds of winning a prize depend upon the total number of eligible entries received. All prizes will be awarded, provided they are properly claimed and a sufficient number of eligible entries are received. Limit one prize per household.

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (3, Funny)

The Great Pretender (975978) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985398)

Do the HP Compaq nc6400 come pre-installed with Windows XP?

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985911)

Seems odd that they'd give out iPods out for something related to Linux. I was under the impression they didn't play well together..

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#15986334)

Seems odd that they'd give out iPods out for something related to Linux. I was under the impression they didn't play well together.

Your impression was incorrect. Linux plays very nicely with ipods (nicer than itunes even) - its just itunes music store and the crud downloaded from there that can be problematic.

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15986141)

SCO licences?

I think I'll post *this* abomination as an a/c :-)

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (1)

lavacano201014 (999580) | more than 7 years ago | (#16027697)

Whiney Mac Fanboy? Either you beat yourself up a lot, or your parents are nuts! (If you're not in America, oops...)

Re:Other prizes. (prices?) (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#16029597)

Not in America...

Viral (3, Insightful)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985235)

For those who aren't clear on what this is from the blurb, this is a viral marketing campaign. However it is important to note that these sorts of things can be used as a tool by us. If you want to promote this, then by all means write your story, possibly win a prize etc. Not all marketing is bad, especially if you're interested in furthering the wellbeing of a certain company or product or movement (such as open source).

And of course the way a viral campaign really spreads is if you tell people. So if you feel this is important to promote and you want it to get more press, then write about it on your blogs.

No, I don't work for Novell, but I am involved in advertising and viral advertising in particular and I'm hoping that by explaining how we can harness this, people won't just jump down their throats and start bitching out all advertising in general, and slashvertising etc.

Marketing is not "bad". (1)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985737)

It is only "bad" when it is based upon lies of FUD.

This attempt at "viral marketing" is stupid because your chance of winning anything DECREASES as it spreads.

Not to mention that they really need different levels of participants. If Linus enters his story, but all the prizes go to people who "evangelize" Linux .... yeah, that's dumb.

Re:Marketing is not "bad". (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 7 years ago | (#15986302)

"It is only "bad" when it is based upon lies of FUD."

Which is not the case this time.

"This attempt at "viral marketing" is stupid because your chance of winning anything DECREASES as it spreads."

Isn't that the way most contests work?

" Not to mention that they really need different levels of participants. If Linus enters his story, but all the prizes go to people who "evangelize" Linux .... yeah, that's dumb."

The whole point of the contest is for people to say good things about Linux. That's what is being exchanged for the chance to win. Not dumb, quite smart actually.

Well... (1)

Antiform (988058) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985236)

I suppose it'a a good thing to have everyone able to see each other's progress and direction... I'm surprised in retrpspect that this didn't happen sooner.

From the article (2, Informative)

Denial93 (773403) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985240)

> The odds of winning a prize depend upon the total number of eligible entries received. Nice way of saying that to max your chances, do not advertise this site.

Here are 1000000 + licenses for FREE !` (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985244)


right here [ubuntu.org]

nobody here is really interested in renting (aka licensing) their OS

i have a licence for my driving, one for my dog and my pet fish eric but i also need one to run my computer ? no thanks

Or... (1)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985305)

You need a license for your pet fish eric and you wouldn't need one to run your computer?

Re:Here are 1000000 + licenses for FREE !` (2, Insightful)

grommit (97148) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985793)

Whoops! You accidentally forgot to mention that to get enterprise level support for Ubuntu, you have to pay at least $250 to some company named Canonical.

I'm sure you weren't trying to compare Ubuntu's free support with SuSe's paid support, that's unpossible!

My Story (1)

dduardo (592868) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985253)

I help Linux by purchasing and promoting Microsoft products.[/sarcasm]

Re:My Story (1)

portmapper (991533) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985268)

> I help Linux by purchasing and promoting Microsoft products.[/sarcasm]

Even better: http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html [openbsd.org]

Open Source Contributors Anonymous... (2, Funny)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985321)

My name is Chris and I am an open source contributor...

Re:Open Source Contributors Anonymous... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985357)

You're an imposter. I'm Chris [creimer.ws] and I'm newbie Mac owner who uses open source software... :P

Wait, Open what? (0)

bieber (998013) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985280)

I'm absolutely _loving_ the irony of an "Open Source" company giving away licenses of their proprietary software as prizes. Way to hold up the ideal, guys!

Re:Wait, Open what? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985325)

SLED 10 isn't proprietary, it's open source. You can download it from Novell's site. The licenses give you access to their support and patch services.

Re:Wait, Open what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985470)

Is there any real benefit to their patch service? How does it improve upon the simple 'apt-get update; apt-get upgrade' of Debian or Ubuntu? I mean, besides tricking a manager into thinking he's paying for some useful service.

And is their support service of any actual use? Having dealt with Red Hat's corporate/enterprise tech support in the past, I can only bring myself to believe that it is practically quite useless. A search at Google Groups would likely be of more help.

Re:Wait, Open what? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985740)

Of course it's no better than apt-get;apt-upgrade, from a technical perspective. But it provides management with Peace Of Mind. You can interpret that as 'having someone to sue', if you prefer. Companies like this. I like this, too. I have on two occasions been completely stumped and needing a solution *now*, where there has been a Novell support agreement has been in place. On both occasions I was able to get an excellent turnaround from Novell and get the problems fixed. Turning the problems over to Novell for resolution left me free to do some other things that I needed to do urgently (like sedate the users). I haven't yet had to put RedHat support to the test. Of course, the number of times I've solved problems myself, with the help of various usenet groups and mailing lists, are too numerous to mention. Still, Novell were there when I *really* needed them, and that made it worth the fees.

My experience as an Linux consultant (and I'm fairly distribution agnostic: SuSE, RedHat, Debian... it's all good) leads me to believe that management tend to be risk-averse. The larger the company, the more risk-averse the management structure. By providing patching and support services, a Linux installation moves from being something that exists in Scary Shadow Land, to something that management can feel comfortable with. Any competent Joe Random Hacker can keep a few dozen Linux servers properly patched and running at peak efficiency. But management sleep better at nights knowing that should Joe Random Hacker leave tomorrow for pastures new, there is a large company with which they have a support agreement and to which they can turn in the intervening period between Joe Random Hacker leaving and Jenny Random Hacker (no relation) starting work. And Jenny Random Hacker might appreciate the support, too. Not everyone is as brilliant as Joe Random Hacker.

It can sometimes be ugly at the interface between hobbyist and commercial enterprise.

Re:Wait, Open what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15986130)

Compared to Ubuntu, Novell are unlikely to automatically offer you a poorly tested critical update that hoses your computer.

Re:Wait, Open what? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985468)

We are all very sorry that you do not understand what "Open Source" actually means.

We are also very sorry that you do not know anything about SuSE, the difference between SLED and OpenSuSE, and what the license is actually used for.

Now that you know you are lacking in the necessary knowledge to make the statement that you did, please go educate yourself using the free resources located at http://www.google.com/ [google.com] http://www.novell.com/linux [novell.com] , and http://www.opensuse.org./ [www.opensuse.org]

Good luck on your mission.

Non-US not welcome (2, Informative)

leandrod (17766) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985289)

It is still not fully functional. I can't make it understand a non-US zip code or city/country combination.

Re:Non-US not welcome (1)

miketheanimal (914328) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985385)

Yeh, London England is not a valid place ......

Re:Non-US not welcome (2, Funny)

Pop69 (700500) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985724)

Yeh, London England is not a valid place ......


I was there a couple of weeks ago, I can assure you that they are correct ;-)

A Scotsman

Ideas? (2, Insightful)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985294)

Novell run out of ideas what to do for Linux? I have a simple idea: Listen to your customers and fire technology pushists like Nat Friedman. In fact it is Novell which fucked up our SuSe distribution and key Suse specialist were laid off, technology no one requested like Red Carpet broke stability and the KDE support, SuSe's great advantage was disrupted be the strange push for Gnome. No wonder when people like Friedman become desktop strategists. Listen to your customers, ask them what they want. Not: Listen to your managerial staff and the solutions they prefer and impose them on your userbase. It is possible that SuSe could regain its reputation. But users are fed up with Novell.

Re:Ideas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985335)

While I agree somewhat with your comment (Novell did f#ck KDE up somewhat), I have to say:

1) Its not really ontopic for this discussion.
2) Hahahahahahahaha! Suck it down KDE fanboy. Gnome rules everywhere!

Re:Ideas? (0, Flamebait)

portmapper (991533) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985343)

When SuSE was bought by Novell, I thought that this might not be to the advantage
of the existing userbase nor to the various open source projects that SuSE previously
(still?) contributed to.

When I used Linux, SuSE was my distribution of choice due to a) documentation (two books),
b) good quality and b) that it was made by an European company. In contrast to many (most?)
Slashdotters - that just want to download for free without ever contributing - I bought several
versions of SuSE.

Re:Ideas? (2, Informative)

houghi (78078) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985442)

So yet another idea is bad?1)
1) Novell, or better SUSE listens to its customers. Just go to openSUSE.org and start contributing. Go to the factory mailinglist and start discussing the new ideas that are there.
2) Yes, SUSE fucked up with YaST. They have updates and are in the process of adding more changes.Are you contributing on the mailinglist and on openSUSE.org yet?
3) KDE support is just as strong as it ever was. The sole difference is that now you must choose with SUSE Linux wether you want GNOME or KDE.
4) SUSE asks what they want on the factory mailinglist all the time. Other places is bugzilla.
5) The amount of users has increased since Novell took over, so please don't say people don't want Novell just because you dion't like it.
6) Novell mad YaST GPL.

So yes, indeed SUSE lost some of its credability due to the zen-issues with 10.1. That however is just one distro during about one month. 10.2 will be out in december.

So it looks as if you were listen in the wrong place. You want Novell to listen to you? Go to openSUSE.org and start contributing, ideally on the mailinglists. Hurry up, otherwise you will need to wait another 8 months after 10.2 comes out for a new version.

Re:Ideas? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985810)

I think you fail to understand that we paid for Suse as it was. The real problem is:

* customer demand vs.

* technology push

I am a customer. I don't want technology imposed on me. I liked Suse and I want to continue to use it. Opensuse.org is only "translated to German". This sents a negative message to the German market, which is that Suse lost one of its features.

Next they will further shorter the Suse manual, support Gnome only, add mono dependencies, ...

1) Novell, or better SUSE listens to its customers. Just go to openSUSE.org and start contributing. Go to the factory mailinglist and start discussing the new ideas that are there.

As I said. I am willing to pay. I am a customer. A technology pushist argues like that. 'If you don't like it, change it.' misses the point. I pay for the product.

2) Yes, SUSE fucked up with YaST. They have updates and are in the process of adding more changes.Are you contributing on the mailinglist and on openSUSE.org yet?

Again you fail to understand. YaST was fine before Novell started to add ximian technology. Not because we as customers wanted it, but because some Novell managers wanted to push ximian technology. The usual Gnome method, throw premature technology on the market, promote it and ask others to fix the problems. I *buy* a working product.
But what did Novell do, force integration of Ximian technology as default, break YaST and then let customers wait and wait and wait for features they did not want. What was responsible for the release delay?

All this would be fine if the trust in the plattform would not be undermined by the moves to transform Suse into something else.

3) KDE support is just as strong as it ever was. The sole difference is that now you must choose with SUSE Linux wether you want GNOME or KDE.

Wrong. Suse was a primary KDE distribution which also had rather bad Gnome support. Users wanted KDE, some geeks took Gnome, fine. Now you are forced to use Gnome as default. I mean, nothing wrong with Ubuntu as Gnome default. But when your customerbase is KDE-centric you have to respect that or your customers get angry. So many Suse professionals were laid off or left the company when Novell changed Suse.

4) SUSE asks what they want on the factory mailinglist all the time. Other places is bugzilla.

I want Nat Friedman to go. I don't trust that person. It's time for him to leave and for Novell to listen to the market again. As a company it is dangerous when you employ people who do not listen to customers but push technology because they have a stake in it. A worm must taste the fish, not the fisher. Business ethics is certainly not his domain.

I want Nat Friedman to go. This would sent a clear signal to the market.

How many leading professionals of Suse left the company? After Richard Seibt gave up in early 2005 things got worse and worse.

5) The amount of users has increased since Novell took over, so please don't say people don't want Novell just because you dion't like it.

Novell is a strong trademark and Suse is now free. So that does not count.

6) Novell mad YaST GPL.

YaST is GPL, so what is the problem?

So yes, indeed SUSE lost some of its credability due to the zen-issues with 10.1.

These are the issues we are used to. Nothing special. Zen is experiemental technology.

That however is just one distro during about one month. 10.2 will be out in december.

What will we have to expect next? Mono dependencies?

So it looks as if you were listen in the wrong place. You want Novell to listen to you? Go to openSUSE.org and start contributing, ideally on the mailinglists.

OpenSuse is a community project, haha. I don't have problems with Suse employees, I have problems with those Novell bastards who make their life a hell and take technology decisions against user interests.

OpenSuse is a method designed to kill Suse as an independend business. Only a Novell enterprise server will be the *product* while OpenSuse is given for free and thus has no priority for Novell. If you don't like it, contribute, haha. That enables the Novell bastards(tm) to take over full control and further rip off and transform Suse to please their own wishes. A Suse softkill.

There is another factor. Suse had excellent support of the German language. Now we are getting invaded by English. Just think of the Opensuse wiki. These are things which irritate customers.

Re:Ideas? (1)

Moochman (54872) | more than 7 years ago | (#15987305)

Whoah there.... I think you're seriously underestimating the commitment Suse still holds to its KDE base. Just check this project [kde.org] out (led by a German Suse engineer [kde.org] I might add)...

Now are you still so upset? Do you STILL think Suse is letting KDE support fall by the wayside and not paying any attention to its users' needs/wants?

BTW, what ever gave you the idea that Gnome is a **default** in the new versions? In SLED maybe, but certainly not in OpenSuse. (Unless you consider a default radio button next to Gnome, with KDE presented equally large as an option right next to it, to be forcing a "default" on you). Be happy that Suse is developing both DE's and pushing both of them. While I prefer KDE personally, I don't want to see Gnome die just because I like KDE better. As far as I'm concerned, Linux (and Suse in particular) is great because of the wide breadth of tools available, regardless of the toolkit their written in or the DE that the user runs. I will always use the best programs for the job, regardless of toolset, and to be honest Suse does the best job of making both toolkits work seamlessly for me. Lack of good Qt support was actually one of my main reasons for leaving Ubuntu.

Re:Ideas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15988821)

It's true that Suse is still the best KDE distribution out there. But when I see that every KDE effort is an afterthought based on their GTK counterparts, that they replaced the perfectly working online update with the GTK and Mono based zen/zmd crap, that they didn't take the extra effort to make XGL play nice with KDE, that they intend to make money with an enterprise distribution based solely on GTK, and when I see that even a GTK version of Yast in being worked on, I can't help wondering how long is going to take them to completely get rid of KDE. Why? Because they're betting their money on GTK, and sooner or later they'll realize it just doesn't make sense from a business perspective to try to give equal support to both projects, and that would be nothing but reasonable.

The writings on the wall are definitely there, and I fear I will be jumping ship soon. The worst part of all this is that there is really no good place to jump to.

Re:Ideas? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15989794)

I think this shows how Novell is driven by Gnome-tehcnology pushists and that is why I as a customer ask Novell to drop Friedman and other unsound guys.

Just take XGL. RedHat did the proper solution AIGLX. But Novell developed XGL in a closed manner and Friedman presented XGL as a Gnome-only "showcase" and made a lot of fuzz. KDE to follow....

We all know that AIGLX is the future and will get included in X. But Friedman wanted to advance the show and the worst case is that XGL survives and we will have AIGLX and XGL in parallel.

Be sure Novell will standardise on XGL...

Novell presented a new menu for Gnome. It is really ugly, they break Gnome and introduce a different desktop philosophy just to migrate users. But what will happen next. It is a temporary bridge.

It is exactly the thinking of "technology push", we write software and then it should be sold. But the real issue is to please customers, to make them happy. I am a customer and I like Suse but I don't like what it gets turned into.

Re:Ideas? (1)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15990192)

I have had a couple conversations that have expressed a similar reasons for not liking Friedman, but contorting facts in order to express your concerns about Friedman is inappropriate.

"Novell presented a new menu for Gnome. It is really ugly..."
It's also optional.

"Friedman wanted to advance the show and the worst case is that XGL survives and we will have AIGLX and XGL in parallel....Be sure Novell will standardise on XGL..."

Your claim is incorrect. In fact, I recently interviewed Friedman at LinuxWorld [novell.com] in San Francisco, where he actually commented in the interview that Xgl is not the term we use because we may well switch over to AIGLX. Compiz is where all the cool stuff is, which is why SLED10 uses the name "Desktop Effects." [wordpress.com]

Re:Ideas? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15991717)

Maybe I am a little bit oldfashioned but hacker ethics is very important for me. What I dislike is dirty gaming, what I dislike is negative campaigning...

What is true?

* Friedman presented the 3d Desktop
* Novell developed it in a closed manner.
* They gave Gnome an artifical competitive advantage
* They did it as a Novell showcase.

The ugly(my taste) 'optional' menu is also bad from a Gnome user perspective. Because Gnome has an unique default feel which is 'not bad', not at all. But here Gnome gets a menu which serves the sole purpose to migrate KDE and XP guys to Gnome.

Maybe my speculations are wrong. But trust and confidence is based on experience. At least things got worse and worse.

Now Gnome gets unnecessary Mono dependencies. It is the same pattern we already know from the past. It is the way they promote their technology.

Re:Ideas? (1)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15995805)

Elektroschock:
That articulates your concerns much more clearly. Thanks. I don't expect to change your opinion, but perhaps I can provide insight into how and why Novell operates the way it does. I speak here from my personal perspective, and not as a cannonical voice.

* Friedman presented the 3d Desktop, Novell developed it in a closed manner.
If I understand it correctly, Xgl/Compiz was originally being developed in open source. David Reveman, the maintainer of Xgl and Compiz, has reported to me that he had few if any significant contributors. When Nat Friedman hired him into Novell, asking him to him focus on getting it working well enough for our enterprise desktop, Reveman brought his work in-house so that he could get it to a proof-of-concept state. If I remember correctly, the project went dark for about 3 or 4 months. In January of 2006, Novell released the much improved code back into open source, allowing community contributions on a very stable codebase ever since.
On the code's re-release, it was quickly snatched up by other distributions, such as Gentoo and Ubuntu.

* They gave Gnome an artifical competitive advantage
Reveman needed to prove the code on something. Maybe he prefers to use GNOME? Also, he was working on the code for a product that would concentrate on GNOME functionality (SLED10, which is not GNOME exclusive, but its features certainly emphasize GNOME.)
- Xgl itself favors niether GNOME nor KDE. It's an X server.
- Compiz stores settings in Gconf. That shows GNOME bias. However, Compiz works well under KDE.
- The window-decorator that ships with Compiz is a GNOME component (gnome-window-decorator). It works under KDE, but dresses KDE windows so that they look GNOME-tainted. There is a thread on a decorator for KDE here [suselinuxsupport.de] .

* They did it as a Novell showcase.
Yes, Novell did do that. Since that time, many adherents of distros like Ubuntu and Gentoo have come up to me at various regional Linux shows I go to, and told me that they really love what Novell has done with Xgl/Compiz. Without the hooplah, would anyone give Novell any credit for bootstrapping the project?
At Socal Linux Expo last year, I listened extensively to Aaron Seigo (Trolltech employee and KDE visionary) give me his analysis about Novell's behavior on this episode, as well as the Hula announcement. (Aaron shares some of your views on how Novell conducts itself on things like this.) I learned a lot from Aaron, and I hope to be able to go to aKademy and catch up with him there.
Having heard Aaron out, I crossexamined some of the principles within Novell about the Xgl announcement. I'm inclined to think that Novell's approach on this may not have been ideal, but also that a few people drastically overstate its negative repercussions relative to the number of contributions that were submitted before (and while) Xgl development briefly went in-house.
Finally, is it really so reprehensible that Novell--a publicly-held, for-profit corporation--wants to show off cool stuff that we produce? Like open source developers, companies that work in open source thrive in part on showing their technological prowess. The effects that Compiz makes possible have given a huge boost to desktop Linux and the potential of open source software, for which fair recognition should be attributed.

Yes, we start some of our projects in-house. Yes, we take opportunities to make headlines when we can. Would it be better for Novell to quietly announce unbaked ideas without usable code on which people can start hacking?

Re:Ideas? (1)

Moochman (54872) | more than 7 years ago | (#15989828)

I disagree. Their KDE userbase IS their existing userbase. While they may pick up more Gnome customers in the future, I doubt that all their KDE fan users are going to jump ship. If they were ever to abandon KDE, it would be the worst publicity story I can possibly imagine.

In any case, I'm glad they're improving Gnome support along with KDE simultaneously. Gnome needs more help, whereas KDE doesn't as much. I'm also glad that they're rewriting Yast--the important thing is that they're improving it, and I'm sure it'll look fine in either environment regardless of the toolkit they use. Same with zen, except of course they botched that one--but ideally they're laying the foundation for improved future technology, and honestly I could care less which toolkit/development environment is behind it as long as they integrate it properly with KDE (which they are unquestionably doing; for evidence see for instance Kerry [kdedevelopers.org] .

Re:Ideas? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15989860)

Kerry = Beagle frontend = depends on Mono = makes your system feel slow
---> Users think KDE was slow.
          + Novell introduces dependcies on immature Ximian technology

KDE prepares strigi, tenor etc. I guess Novell will not respect that. No, they will impose Beagle so that a better tool has no chance. They want Mono dependencies. You don't like it? You think it's too slow. Oh well, subscribe to the mailing list and contribute.

Next?

Kontact is canceled, Evolution becomes default. Reason: because it is from Ximian, not because users wanted it. ;-)

Re:Ideas? (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#15990987)

>> I disagree. Their KDE userbase IS their existing userbase. While they may pick up more Gnome customers in the future, I doubt that all their KDE fan users are going to jump ship. If they were ever to abandon KDE, it would be the worst publicity story I can possibly imagine.

It's hard to predict the future, so maybe you're right there. You know, I don't mind them improving their GTK support. Though I personally think Gnome it's far, far inferior to KDE's technology, I've very little against it and I understand some people like it better, so if they can provide a good experience for both desktops, that's alright.

In fact, I don't believe Novell's intentions are clear about dropping KDE right now. No, what I think is that it will come a day when they, as a business, will be forced to drop KDE because they're spending too much resources into something that is not their core business. And if SLED10 has made something clear, is that their enterprise desktop with which they are supposed to make money is not going to have something to do with KDE at all.

Re:Ideas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985952)

Believe it or not, but the world DOES NOT revolve around you. Novell is putting more effort into Gnome because it DID listen to its users and customers. KDE is great if you love to customize, but Gnome just works, when alot of the time you have to edit settings to get KDE to work right. SuSE might have lost its reputation with you, but for the rest of us normal users we love it. I can see somewhat how you could be mad at Novell for OpenSUSE, but just remember that all that is, is a testing ground for things that are going into the Enterprise Edition. SLED 10 is light years better than OpenSUSE 10.1, and I suggest you take a look at that before passing judgement on something that shouldn't be judged.

Re:Ideas? (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#15988766)

"Novell is putting more effort into Gnome because it DID listen to its users and customers."

No. Novell is _still_ putting efforts into KDE because actual customers (Suse customers) demanded it. No one asked for Gnome.

"KDE is great if you love to customize, but Gnome just works, when alot of the time you have to edit settings to get KDE to work right"

That's typical Gnome bullshit. Even if it was true, that job would be up to Novell, not the user.

Re:Ideas? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 7 years ago | (#15989827)

Perhaps you are right. Some users like what happens. Perhaps the Novell customers. But among the old Suse customers we a pretty upset. It feels like a hostile takeover and things started to become worse when key Suse staff left Novell.

Novell looks for a new market and they destroy the old core market of Suse. They turn a soccer club into basket ball just because they also had a basket ball group. It is difficult to turn a Soccer fan into a basket ball fan. So Novell looks for new cusomers. But who will serve the market they ignore?

Something's not right about this. (0)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985303)

OK, we have a contest for people who contribute to open source software, and the prize is a license for proprietary closed-source software. What's wrong with this picture?

Re:Something's not right about this. (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985366)

There's no entry fee to pad Novell's bottom line? Did I win a prize?

Re: Something's not right about this. (2, Informative)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15990108)

"What's wrong with this picture?"
Maybe you're looking through dirty lenses? :)

SLED10 is far from proprietary. I posted an update on my blog [wordpress.com] about this mischaracterization. I'm hoping that you will be willing to read it and reconsider.

England invalid? (0)

bobintetley (643462) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985330)

Well, I tried the signup but to my surprise "England is not a recognised country". Even though I picked it from their drop down box and it was quite clearly visible and zoomed in on the map.

Re:England invalid? (1)

portmapper (991533) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985369)

> Well, I tried the signup but to my surprise "England is not a recognised country". Even though
> I picked it from their drop down box and it was quite clearly visible and zoomed in on the map.

And SuSE used to be an European company...

Re:England invalid? (1)

gilgongo (57446) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985601)

Ah yes, the old "Not American? Well, we have heard of these other places..." It's a new twist that it's not even valid though.

This reminds me: why is it that Americans think England is a country? I'm sure they'd think it odd if I put a form on my site that listed "Texas" separately from "United States." I'm glad I'm not Scottish, Irish or Welsh.

Re:England invalid? (1)

RegularFry (137639) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985668)

This reminds me: why is it that Americans think England is a country?

Erm... Because it is a country? I refer you to an authority [number-10.gov.uk] on the matter.

Re:England invalid? (1)

Pop69 (700500) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985714)

England is a country, the big problem is the number of people who think United Kingdom = England.

Does England have a right to exist? (1)

Ivan Matveitch (748164) | more than 7 years ago | (#15987801)

Here, we call it Occupied Normandy.

My contribution? (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985380)

All right, Novell, here's my contribution to Open Source and Suse in particular:

I just tell everyone to get rid of the zen/zmd crap and install Smart ( http://labix.org/smart [labix.org] ). This way, they can also enjoy one of the best distributions available today, only held back by your stupid screw-ups.

I bet this would really take off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985460)

If all of the stories were written in the style of a Penthouse Forum letter.

Novell has institutionalized itself as the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15985662)

...underdog.

Those of you who remember the last "big" campaign from Novell to promote its Netware platform recognize this.

www.whytheylie.com

This was a Novell domain dedicated to telling the world how Microsoft lies in order to steal marketshare away from Novell, or misrepresents its own or Novell's products to the same end. Even if you agreed with the general sentiment Novell was trying to express on that site, it still came off as shrill and overwrought. "why they whine" would have been more a more accurate tag.

Currently, that marketing campaign is dead, thought he domain still resolves to a 404 on Novell's site.

This new campaign sounds like another example of self-defeatism. This from the company that had the network operating system locked down and became a footnote in that market within ten years. This from the company that had the rights to the Unix OS after their buyout of Unix Systems Labs. It had the keys to the kingdom and knew not what to do with them...

So now Novell wants you to advertise for them by evangelizing for the open source movement, which is something that OS evangelists really don't need Novell's embrace or help to do successfully. Novell is grasping at straws.

Call me cynical (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985677)

But this reminds me of those times when Mandrake had to beg for donations. Not quite in the same ball park just yet, but it doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in me about their direction. This is the sort of thing I might expect from a non-commercial project, not from a company.

Joo-boon-too (2, Funny)

Klaidas (981300) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985681)

Ubuntu has something like this here [ubuntu.com]
However, you won't win any prices, so you won't have to pay

Once... (1)

epcraig (102626) | more than 7 years ago | (#15985880)

For a couple of years EUGLUG was able to get SuSE to send us remaindered boxed sets to hand out at the Community Village in the Oregon Country Fair, one release earlier than what was then current. A good deal, hardcopy manuals and the just past state of the art SuSE CD distros to pass out to random hippies.
In 2004 we went back to burning our own, Somebody in Oakland dropped the ball during the merger (likely the Oakland office closed).
Last summer and this we got Ubuntu, as many as we wished.
Well, we're happy. Cold day in Hell before I'll mention this on their site, though.

Accused as Being Proprietary? (3, Informative)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15986520)

Several people have commented on SLED being proprietary. Amid this firebranding, I ask you to consider some details about SLED, SUSE, and Novell. 1. Open Source SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop was developed in open source. It includes a couple pieces of proprietary software from partner companies, such as the Macromedia Flash plugin for Firefox, RealPlayer, and Adobe Reader. It includes no proprietary kernel modules. Andreas Jaeger recently posted on SUSE's policy here [novell.com] . Novell includes a couple proprietary packages developed at Novell on the SLED10 media, but they do not install by default, and are all related to integrating with enterprise infrastructural services (already-deployed Novell enterprise systems). 2. Free Software, but Not Free Updates SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop is fully functional free software. It does not require any kind of license key. However, Novell hopes to make revenue on the software update service, as well as enterprise support, consulting, training, and other services. The activation keys activate the update service for one year. (Clever winners of the 50 1-year activations that we are giving away might extend that a bit by using the 60 day eval before they use their activation code.) 2. Free Updates? Yes, for openSUSE. Novell also underwrites another desktop distribution openSUSE, which includes a lot more packages than SLED. Anyone can download it and use it. However, SLED today has some features that were (thankfully) not included in openSUSE 10.1, the current version. (In fact, we had a major screw up with a including a not-ready component in openSUSE, causing a mess that we are still trying to clean up in the SUSE community.) The feature delta with SLED, as well as the extensive extra polishing that SLED received before shipping--have prompted many people in the community to expressed their desire to use SLED. They like what Novell has created and packaged--an amazingly well-assembled desktop system, and they would rather not wait for many of the features and design elements to appear in openSUSE 10.2. 3. Novell Contributes...a Lot Please give Novell some credit for driving many of the great Linux features that have shown up not only on SUSE Linux, but many other distributions. Novell hired David Reveman to complete his work on Xgl & Compiz, which are now available on Ubuntu, Gentoo and other distros. Novell hired Aaron Bockover to create Banshee on the Helix framework so that we could have legal mp3 on Linux. Novell bought Ximian and continues to enable them to create things like the new main menu for GNOME (Jimmy Krehl's "slab"), and solid desktop search well ahead of Microsoft Vista (which still may not ship with that feature). A major reason why plug and play devices like USB drives, mp3 players and cameras just work today is Robert Love's project Utopia. SUSE engineers today are pushing upstream Linux kernel code that has been and still is greatly extending battery life. Maybe these examples are still too self-interested? Novell employees the team that maintains GCC, which is a 100% upstream contribution the GNU toolchain, and yields zero competitive advantage to Novell. Novell CTO Jeff Jaffe has stated the reason: you can't just take, you gotta give back. That's why Novell is participating and contributing. Novell is part way through a cultural change that I think is nothing short of astounding. Say what you want about our marketing missing the mark. But if you believe that we are too proprietary, or that we do not actively engaged enough in open source, then tell us why you think so. Otherwise, is it really justified to berate Novell for being proprietary just because we have offered 50 update activation keys on an awareness campaign? Please refer people to this comment if you see accusations of SLED being proprietary. -- Ted Haeger (You can find me at http://reverendted.wordpress.com./ [reverendte...dpress.com]

An OpenSUSE user (1)

Sits (117492) | more than 7 years ago | (#15989700)

Hello Ted,

I'm just another opensuse user (actually I'm relatively recent user having avoided SUSE for years due to the inability to download the ISOs for free). As I'm an administrator of a few (60+) opensuse desktops too, I'm going to guess that the not-ready component you included was novell-zmd right? That thing is painful... Is it as slow for you as it is for me? Why does it go to sleep? People who think yum is slow should give this thing a whirl just after boot... Plus I never thought I'd say this but I'm glad that yast was around or I would have struggled to fetch those updates (yeah I know - fetch the RPMs and update like the bad old days)...

It has to be said that your company is doing some extremely interesting (well to me) work. Little things like the opensuse firefox print dialog displaying CUPS printers (yes I know about the bug where if a printer disappears it makes firefox crash when you go to the print dialog but so do your folks because I found it in your bugzilla). Other things like the ability to delegate the ability to install and update software to a user are absolutely fantastic at a site like the university where I work. I have been enjoying using XGL (although it took a bit of futzing with config files to get it going under KDE which is what we are still using here and why oh why did you change the way the zoom keybinding worked? We had folks who loved the way the zoom stuck because it acted like a magnifying glass that you didn't have to hold...). Our laptop users like the NetworkManager setup although I suspect getting the Wifi to work with the University's PPTP VPN is still going to be a step too far. I even noticed that OOo started much faster than I'd ever seen it in other distros (although I do now see there is some sort of autoloader). Global proxy configuration is also good.

However there are a couple of gotchas like gaim always using a proxy for jabber (!) if a global proxy is set (already known to your folks), the mysterious and yet repeated kmail crashes that I keep having (I haven't had a chance to look that one up) and the bizzare choice to pull up the current kernel when a new kernel is installed (this led to USB harddisks no longer working in the running kernel and has now scared users off applying updates).

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, you do seem to include a lot of closed stuff in your distro but for the most part people seem to want it (acrobat, realplayer and flash are all popular and the sneaky packaging of a 32 bit firefox side steps the 64 bit owners wrath for now). Your documentation isn't bad (the wiki is somewhat useful on issues like packaging). However what you are doing with SLED (and indeed Opensuse) feels remiencient of Red Hat do with their RHEL which in my book is the right way to go. So long as the SRPMs for the open source parts and you don't start bundling closed source drivers (keep 'em as a seperate download) I feel branding it as wholely proprietary is unfair.

Re:An OpenSUSE user (1)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15990070)

Thanks for your input on my post, and the "right way to go" props.

Regarding the updater, indeed that was the piece in question. Patches have been put out, and it's performing well now. But negative publicity on it continues. >sigh
Not sure about the change on the Xgl keybinding. If you use the mouse wheel to zoom in, then you only need to hold the "super" key in order to pan about. Probably you already know that. :)

Again, thanks.
--Ted
http://reverendted.wordpress.com

Subscription pricing sux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#15990263)

Here's the thing. I think SLED is a great product, but as an individual user $50 a year simply isn't worth it to me. I want the software updates. This is open source; the code is constantly in flux. Microsoft doesn't charge me to patch my software. Apple doesn't. Plus, if I really don't feel like paying for Windows or Mac OS, I pirate it. No joke, that's really an option. Not so with SLED because, again, it is subscription based. You say "use OpenSUSE," but that's not the same thing, is it? SLED > Ubuntu > OpenSUSE. So the net effect is that I, a motivated, Linux-savvy user who likes the product -- in other words, THE BEST VIRAL MARKETING TOOL AROUND -- am not using SLED.

Correction: Accused as Being Proprietary? (1)

reverendted (998056) | more than 7 years ago | (#15993064)

My colleague Richard Guenther from the GCC team has requested a correction. I said: "Novell employees the team that maintains GCC, which is a 100% upstream contribution the GNU toolchain, and yields zero competitive advantage to Novell." My mistake was that Novell does not house the actual GCC maintainers. It should read: "Novell employees a teams to contribute to GCC, which is an upstream contribution the GNU toolchain and yields little competitive advantage to Novell." --Ted

SLES Roadshow (1)

itomato (91092) | more than 7 years ago | (#15987555)

http://www.novell.com/linux/yourlinuxtour/ [novell.com]

I don't know when the mapping thing was set up, but I imagine it's got something to do with the Roadshow - getting an idea of how many people would attend, perhaps?

There aren't many people (maybe 6?) around my city (Dallas, TX) that are mapped.

phhht you can keep the reward (1)

sentientbrendan (316150) | more than 7 years ago | (#15987869)

I tried SLED 10. It's buggy as get out.

/. affect in place (1)

greengrass (945616) | more than 7 years ago | (#15988489)

Too slow. Clunkly navigation. High noise to information ratio
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