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Windows Vista RC1 Complete

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the inching-ever-closer dept.

292

alienfluid writes to mention that RC1 of Windows Vista is now complete. This 'nearly complete' version of the operating system is already available to beta testers, and will be available to everyone else soon. From the article: "You'll notice a lot of improvements since Beta 2. We've made some UI adjustments, added more device drivers, and enhanced performance. We're not done yet, however -- quality will continue to improve. We'll keep plugging away on application compatibility, as well as fit and finish, until RTM. If you are an ISV, RC1 is the build you should use for certifying your application."

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Testing phase.... (5, Funny)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | about 8 years ago | (#16027170)

DOOOoooooo DEEEEeeeee DAAAAaaaa Ting

Oh Crap, sorry forgot to turn the volume down.

Re:Testing phase.... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027240)

Your sound is working, which is good to know.

It is now safe to use your computer.

Which version is this... (0, Redundant)

creimer (824291) | about 8 years ago | (#16027172)

Is this pre-RC1 that just came out earlier this week or is there another version coming out?

Re:Which version is this... (5, Funny)

creimer (824291) | about 8 years ago | (#16027256)

Redundant? If it's the same version that was released earlier this week, it would be redundant. If not the same version, maybe Jim Allchin is looking at a new Mac OS X "Leopard" build and mistaking it for Windows Vista?

Re:Which version is this... (5, Funny)

Kippesoep (712796) | about 8 years ago | (#16027372)

It's newer. The build number is higher.

Re:Which version is this... (2, Informative)

agallagh42 (301559) | about 8 years ago | (#16027566)

"Is this pre-RC1 that just came out earlier this week or is there another version coming out?"

Pre-RC1 (aka. August CTP) is build 5536. RC1 is build 5600.

Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (5, Funny)

Tackhead (54550) | about 8 years ago | (#16027176)

> Windows Vista is going to touch hundreds of millions of lives all around the world.

"Bad touch! Bad touch!"

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (5, Funny)

Who235 (959706) | about 8 years ago | (#16027209)

Trackhead, point out on the doll where Vista touched you. . .

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027279)

Right about here [wikipedia.org] , I'd reckon.

Where Vista Touched Me. (5, Interesting)

twitter (104583) | about 8 years ago | (#16027291)

Trackhead, point out on the doll where Vista touched you. . .

In the wallet, of course. M$ is going to waste $6.2 billion promoting what's looking more and more like XP SP3, super digital restriction. While I won't directly pay for that, many will. Schools, government and everyone not bright enough to use free software will pay. They will pass that cost along as taxes and higher prices. As Steve Baller likes to say, the upfront cost of software are just the beginning and all of the tremendous inefficiencies of Windoze will also be passed along in higher prices and poorer service. I don't even want to think of the costs to the economy that comes from Microsoft's inability to design a network safe OS are. All of the above easily adds up to multiples of M$'s annual net revenue.

Touching, Touching (1)

dch24 (904899) | about 8 years ago | (#16027354)

From the summary:

We'll keep plugging away on application compatibility

Isn't it touching how loyal the Vista Dev Team is to Duke Nukem Forever? Real Soon Now, Vista will be ready for release! I mean, they even have a Release Candidate out!

Re:Where Vista Touched Me. (2, Insightful)

jb.hl.com (782137) | about 8 years ago | (#16027413)

In the wallet, of course. M$ is going to waste $6.2 billion promoting what's looking more and more like XP SP3, super digital restriction.

Three things:

1) If Microsoft didn't promote their flagship product, they would be fucking cretins of the first degree. You seem to think that just because you say so, they should just give up, if not actively say "Don't use Windows".
2) MS' operating profit is about 12.6 billion dollars. They're not going to spend almost half of their operating profit on promoting Vista.
3) I would like you to pay close attention to this page [wikipedia.org] . Special attention should be paid to what a long page it is, and the number of notes at the bottom confirming it all.

While I won't directly pay for that, many will. Schools, government and everyone not bright enough to use free software will pay.

Or, alternatively, schools and governments will pay because Windows is a de-facto standard on the desktop, and is what just about everyone uses just about everywhere?

All of the above easily adds up to multiples of M$'s annual net revenue.

$44billion? Cite your references please.

Re:Where Vista Touched Me. (2, Insightful)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | about 8 years ago | (#16027570)

$44billion? Cite your references please.

Not my reference, but it is correct. Here [yahoo.com] is there last annual report. Right at the top is thier fiscal year 2006 revenue is 44,282 (in millions) so over 44 billion.

Re:Where Vista Touched Me. (1, Interesting)

Columcille (88542) | about 8 years ago | (#16027598)

While I won't directly pay for that, many will.
I'll pay! I'm quite looking forward to Vista.

and everyone not bright enough to use free software
Yes, there's something just quirky about those of us who like to use software that just works. Linux has made a lot of progress over the years but it's still quite a ways behind Windows.

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (-1, Offtopic)

maynard (3337) | about 8 years ago | (#16027228)

what

what

what

what

what's my mission now?

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (1)

Tackhead (54550) | about 8 years ago | (#16027337)

> what
> what
> what
> what
> what's my mission now?

Now what?

"One controversial operating system is Windows Vista. Critics charge that it's a perfect example of goldplating, in which the manufacturer tries to load every conceivable feature into the operating system, ignoring actual IT staff needs..."

I wonder what Steve Ballmer's rants would sound like if into Mind at the End of the Tether?

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (1)

maynard (3337) | about 8 years ago | (#16027586)

I miss that album so much. Somehow, I lost it. But I've got the LP cover with that scene from Alien still in my basement. I don't know why I haven't thrown it away, other than that it reminds me of my teen years when I bought it. Fucking weird shit. But good. :)

Re:Touching hundreds of millions of lives... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027529)

Just say no and run to an adult for help.

Release Candidate? (5, Insightful)

xazeru (671933) | about 8 years ago | (#16027181)

If Microsoft knows that there is more work to do, why call it a release candidate?

Re:Release Candidate? (5, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | about 8 years ago | (#16027203)

Right, usually they call something like this "final"

Could be worst... (5, Interesting)

creimer (824291) | about 8 years ago | (#16027226)

On several occasions at Atari, a producer would try to slip in an Alpha-Beta-GoldRelease-Omega build candidate to get their performance bonus even though the title was four months behind schedule. Go figure.

Re:Release Candidate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027299)

Final Candidate?

Re:Release Candidate? (5, Funny)

Kesch (943326) | about 8 years ago | (#16027219)

Most of the work left is reclassifying all the bug reports as "features."

Re:Release Candidate? (1, Interesting)

BlahMatt (931052) | about 8 years ago | (#16027230)

RC's are usually versions that have all the core functionality implemented and are ready for testing. It is not, however, bug free and it does not have everything implemented. Functionality can be added/removed based on user response. User response needs to be measured before it can be decided whether to keep feature X or alter it or implement it another way.

It is also not bug free because it has not been exposed to general population for testing which always reveals more bugs that simply aren't found during the internal testing process.

It's like saying. "We could release this, but we're sure that there will be something people don't like and we'd rather have people bash away at it so we can fix it before an official launch". Or at least that's how it is at my work.

Re:Release Candidate? (5, Informative)

dvice_null (981029) | about 8 years ago | (#16027275)

> RC's are usually versions that have all the core functionality implemented and are ready for testing.

No, that is called a beta version. RC = Release Candidate means what it means. If no new problems are found by the testers, it will be the final release, or so it should be. RC version doesn't need to be bug free, but it shouldn't have any bugs that are marked as stoppers of the final release.

Re:Release Candidate? (1, Insightful)

BlahMatt (931052) | about 8 years ago | (#16027289)

That is the 'practical' definition, but I've had many release candidates where new functionality has been added either as a result of sheer customer demand, or if it was just too complicated. There are lots of reasons one would have to add functionality to an RC.

You are correct though, RCs do turn into General Releases, just usually not the first one and the content does not necessarily stay the same between RCs

Re:Release Candidate? (5, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | about 8 years ago | (#16027475)

Well, you could have lots of changes and fixes after RC1, but if you shouldn't have any changes and bug fixes *planned* for after RC1. When you label a build as a "release candidate", you're saying it's a candidate for release. If there's no possibility that you'll release that version as "final", then it's not a release candidate.

You might expect that you'll find some bugs in the release candidate, and that, if none of them are show-stoppers, you'll patch them after release. However, if there are known bug fixes or changes that must be completed before release, then there is no chance you'll actually release that build. therefore, it isn't a candidate for release, and hence it isn't a "release candidate".

I don't know why people don't understand what the term means. It seems self-explanatory to me. I guess Microsoft just doesn't want to admit that they're still in the beta stage.

Re:Release Candidate? (0)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | about 8 years ago | (#16027607)

Hate to disagree... but I have to disagree. Your definition may be correct in the abstract, but in the real world when dealing with a project of any real size or complexity the final released product will have known bug fixes, etc let alone a release candidate. Its just a matter of prioritizing these issues and deciding which one are "show stoppers" and which can be dealt with. Any issues of a certain severity will have to be fixed before shipping, but there will often be known issues of a low priority in the final shipped version. This isn't the ideal, but in the real world with dealing with large commercial software it is a fact of life.

Re:Release Candidate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027572)

That is the 'practical' definition

Actually, I believe that's the definition everywhere except Microsoft.

Re:Release Candidate? (2, Informative)

phatvw (996438) | about 8 years ago | (#16027313)

Actually it does have everything implemented. There will be no new features in the final RTM build according to Alchin and Valentine. The only difference will be bug fixes and improvements in the WDK and other documentation.

Indcidentally, there is a huge party going on at Microsoft's main campus soccer field [live.com] today, if you were curious to see how Windows developers act while drunk.

Re:Release Candidate? (1)

legoburner (702695) | about 8 years ago | (#16027558)

if you were curious to see how Windows developers act while drunk.

They are horrible drunks and do mean things like making windows ME.

Not Gonna do it! (1)

PoconoPCDoctor (912001) | about 8 years ago | (#16027576)

I put Vista beta 2 on two systems - one at work and my home system. It's gone from both now.

I know it was a beta release, yadda yadda, but I can't even consider using at work since I need a Novell Client - Novell said they would release a client for Vista about 90 days after the official release to OEM's - sorry - need to work. ZAP! Back to XP SP2.

At home, an obviously aging P4 2.26 Ghz with 1 gig of Ram rates a 1, according to Vista. Can yous say makes a zippy system slow? ZAP! Back to XP SP2.

I checked the lotto, I didn't win, and so can't afford to buy what MS considers to be minimum HW just to run Aero.

Re:Release Candidate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027280)

Because the usable (and useful) version will be called SP1. Or maybe SP2.

Mr. Montoya, you're on in 5... (4, Funny)

Mark_in_Brazil (537925) | about 8 years ago | (#16027397)

Exactly.

alienfluid writes to mention that RC1 of Windows Vista is now complete. This 'nearly complete' version of the operating system is already available to beta testers, and will be available to everyone else soon.
From the article:
"You'll notice a lot of improvements since Beta 2. We've made some UI adjustments, added more device drivers, and enhanced performance. We're not done yet, however -- quality will continue to improve. We'll keep plugging away on application compatibility, as well as fit and finish, until RTM. If you are an ISV, RC1 is the build you should use for certifying your application."

"You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean."

Freeware? (2, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | about 8 years ago | (#16027185)

This 'nearly complete' version of the operating system is already available to beta testers, and will be available to everyone else soon.

They're making a release candidate available to everyone, or was this just the submitter being imprecise?

Re:Freeware? (1)

R.Mo_Robert (737913) | about 8 years ago | (#16027222)

Beta 2 is available to everyone...

Re:Freeware? (5, Informative)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | about 8 years ago | (#16027258)

Beta 2 is available to everyone...

From microsoft.com: "Thank you for your interest in Windows Vista. The Customer Preview Program is now closed. We have reached our program capacity and no new orders are being accepted. We apologize for any inconvenience."

It looks like a limited number of beta testers for the beta and for the RC, not "everyone."

Re:Freeware? (5, Funny)

eggoeater (704775) | about 8 years ago | (#16027371)


I don't think you're looking at the correct web site [thepiratebay.org] .

Re:Freeware? (2, Informative)

ocelotbob (173602) | about 8 years ago | (#16027237)

MS has time-limited versions of a lot of their software, including 2003 server and Office. In fact, XP RC-1 had a similar open beta program. Fill out a form, and they send ya a CD for free. I think I still have my copy somewhere.

I just don't care anymore... (0, Troll)

corychristison (951993) | about 8 years ago | (#16027187)

I don't care how many more enhancements they make to Vista, I still won't use it.

I moved to Linux a few years ago and via Vmware I had XP installed so I could still use Photoshop/Illustrator. But since then I have found Inkscape and Xara to be great replacements.

Good luck with that Vista monstrosity, though.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (4, Funny)

daeg (828071) | about 8 years ago | (#16027207)

One useless "I moved to Linux, HAHA!" post down, 499 to go.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | about 8 years ago | (#16027235)

Well, I have a spin on that.

With Vista's hardware requirements, there's gonna be plenty of old machines to convert to Ubuntu :)

more like.. (4, Funny)

doti (966971) | about 8 years ago | (#16027239)

One soul saved, 4999999999 to go.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (-1, Flamebait)

Phragmen-Lindelof (246056) | about 8 years ago | (#16027276)

Well, I moved to Linux seven years ago. And you're one more useless MS troll to ignore.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (-1, Flamebait)

Tim C (15259) | about 8 years ago | (#16027386)

Well, I moved off Linux and on to Windows 3 years ago, and you're one more useless Linux troll to ignore.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (0, Flamebait)

razor150 (984063) | about 8 years ago | (#16027550)

Do you really think anybody cares when you switched to Linux? Here's a tip, they don't. If that is the only point you came to make perhaps you should reconsider posting. Being a Linux troll doesn't make you special.

Guess I am an MS troll now. Oh well, couldn't care less.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (1)

timeOday (582209) | about 8 years ago | (#16027405)

For me the reference to xara [xaraxtreme.org] was the most useful thing I'm likely to get out of this thread. I've been waiting for some time for way to make system diagrams and flowcharts that look good enough for presentations (i.e. an Illustrator alternative); maybe xara will be it.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (1)

jonadab (583620) | about 8 years ago | (#16027477)

> One useless "I moved to Linux, HAHA!" post down, 499 to go.

Allow me to violate your expectations. I used to use Linux, but I've moved away from it. Well, okay, I still have a Linux-based firewall, and administer a number of Linux systems at work, but at home I run FreeBSD. HTH.HAND.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (5, Funny)

Kangie (975603) | about 8 years ago | (#16027574)

500 useless posts on the wall
500 useless posts,
Mod one down to the ground
499 useless posts on the wall.. ;)

Re:I just don't care anymore... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027605)

Take one down, pass it around...

Re:I just don't care anymore... (1, Troll)

jt2377 (933506) | about 8 years ago | (#16027242)

why do you comment? why do Opensource fanboy alway have this need to post useless comment? is it the "my OS is better than your OS" retard syndrome and this useless comment is marked insightful? LOL.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (2, Insightful)

corychristison (951993) | about 8 years ago | (#16027463)

I didn't say anything about it being better.

But since you brought it up, I'd like to say that YES, it is much better. Why? Because we have a strong community that cares about the direction the product goes, not just PUSH IT ON EVERYONE.
P.S. - I'm not a fanboy. I'm just happy I don't have to go down the MS road anymore. Apple/Mac can kiss my ass, as well.

Re:I just don't care anymore... (0, Troll)

jt2377 (933506) | about 8 years ago | (#16027613)

blah blah blah...fanboy or no fanboy your comment doesn't contribute anything. good for you not going down the MS road and have a nice STFU to your retard syndrome and post something useful about the TOPIC!

Re:I just don't care anymore... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027293)

me too!

#499

Re:I just don't care anymore... (1)

canuck57 (662392) | about 8 years ago | (#16027294)

I moved to Linux a few years ago and ....

I hear ya. There is one great part about Vista for Linux users though. All those old XPs will be on sale on perfectly good hardware as many want Vista "capable". Me, I am eyeing up a new AMD X2 ... juat think of all the patches we don't need to apply!

Virus infested spyware trojans adware != Linux

I'll use is so long as they keep paying me to. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027303)

So far they(Microsoft and a large partner of theirs) have found funds to help us port to their BizTalk/Sharepoint stuff; and looks like funds to port to Vista --- so as long as they keep paying us to do it, I'm happy to. Their money's one of the siginificant sources of funds for the startup I'm in. So far every time we told them "I hope you're not offended, but this part of our system only works on Oracle" they've been happy to cough up the dough to help us port away.


I can't imagine why anyone would use thier stuff if they actually had to pay for it themselves, though.

Gamers will move. (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | about 8 years ago | (#16027328)

Direct X 10 will make a lot of gamers make the jump.

I'll be interested in trying out RC1. The beta2 build had a lot of problems with the install process. (I had to disable parts of my nforce4 mobo to get it to install fex.)

Hopefully they've got it working a lot better because (like it or not) a lot of people are going to be using it.

Re:Gamers will move. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027353)

many of the best games use opengl rather than directx though, not to mention wine won't be slow in wrapping the new api

Something wicked this way comes? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027192)

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert.

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

W.B. Yeats, "Slouching Towards Bethlehem"

(I was reminded by the 'from the inching-ever-closer dept.')

Re:Something wicked this way comes? (1)

Asshat Canada (804093) | about 8 years ago | (#16027253)

Chuck Norris has special Roundhouse-Kick-To-the-Fuckin-Face Jeans with a stretchy lycra crotch.

RC? (4, Insightful)

dustball23 (309393) | about 8 years ago | (#16027193)

How can something "nearly complete" be a candidate for release? Unless they are considering releasing THAT BUILD, it's not a true RC.

Re:RC? (5, Interesting)

Aadain2001 (684036) | about 8 years ago | (#16027231)

It's simply a business descision. They are waaaaaaaaaaaay behind and have OEMs and major developers on their backs for something they can use to develope for/validate against. Vista will never be "done". Five years from now we'll still be "finishing" the OS with bug patches and feature creep. I think the article simple ment that what was left was fine-tuning of small features, insuring as much "correct" behavior as possible, and re-compiling without debug code.

Re:RC? (1)

cnettel (836611) | about 8 years ago | (#16027271)

And this is certainly nothing new, the Windows 2000 RCs started coming out earlier than this back in 1999, with the OS RTMed in late December, and official release in February 2000.

Re:RC? (1)

sharkey (16670) | about 8 years ago | (#16027577)

Yep. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Windows 95 is STILL not finished. I am STILL waiting for it to make everything I do "faster and more fun".

Re:RC? (1)

creimer (824291) | about 8 years ago | (#16027282)

They did release a pre-RC1 build earlier this week. I'll be installing my copy over the weekend.

Re:RC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027307)

They did release a pre-RC1 build earlier this week. I'll be installing my copy over the weekend.

You have our deepest admiration.

Re:RC? (1)

ChronoReverse (858838) | about 8 years ago | (#16027326)

Took about 25 minutes to install pre-RC1, from bootup to desktop fully loaded. Seems like they've seriously improved that installation time. The test computer I put it on is only mid-ranged at best (and maybe even lower-end by now). So far it's quite snappy. Too bad IE7 mucks up rendering /. randomly.

Re:RC? (1)

hhr (909621) | about 8 years ago | (#16027478)

MSFT says it's a release candidate, because they will support it in production. If a MSFT beta toasts your box, then you are SOL. But, if an MSFT RC toasts your box, their customer support can get involved.

Complete? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 years ago | (#16027557)

Software isnt 'complete' until its retired i guess. Until then, its hit with patches, bug fixes, etc.. so 'production' really isnt 'complete', its just not in beta anymore.

Too late (5, Funny)

ccmay (116316) | about 8 years ago | (#16027210)

I was talking to a half dozen of my partners yesterday. Four of us already had a MacBook, and the other three were planning to buy one.

Every one of us was a former Windows user, and had a copy of Windows 2000 or XP which they planned to run under Parallels for connectivity to our company system, but not one of them cared a fig for Vista, and nobody intended to run any kind of Windows natively with BootCamp.

I predict this will be Microsoft's biggest flop ever. You heard it here first.

-ccm

Re:Too late (2, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 8 years ago | (#16027217)

As much as I'm rooting for that, I doubt it'll flop as bad as Windows Me.

Re:Too late (1, Interesting)

jmauro (32523) | about 8 years ago | (#16027248)

Sadly Windows Me cannot hold a candle to the flop that was Microsoft Bob [wikipedia.org]

Mods: WTF? (1)

bcat24 (914105) | about 8 years ago | (#16027393)

How is the parent off-topic? He was making an on-topic reply to the grandparent, who was making an on-topic reply to the great-grandparent.

Re:Too late (3, Insightful)

mrbcs (737902) | about 8 years ago | (#16027267)

We can always hope! Windows Mistake Edition at least would sort of run on existing computers. Seen the specs for this? In this day and age? I think this one is going to tank big time and they don't have another Win2k to bail them out.

So what do you think of the subscription model now?

Announcing... (1)

dch24 (904899) | about 8 years ago | (#16027406)

...Here, here is our best hope for Microsoft. They are combining the strengths of Windows CE from their impressive mobile line, Windows ME, and of course, the reliability of the Windows NT kernel...

GIF Product Brochure [geocities.com]

Re:Too late (1)

baadger (764884) | about 8 years ago | (#16027472)

Hard drive space aside, i've found Vista x64 build 5536 to perform just about as well as XP. <opinion>Shame about the underwhelming UI and it's extreme level of suck though. </opinion>

Will Vista run on existing computers? (2, Interesting)

daviddennis (10926) | about 8 years ago | (#16027524)

The subscription model is in tatters.

If you recall, it was around this time a couple of years ago that we started hearing about the subscription model and Software Assurance. This was supposed to make life easier for everyone by giving Microsoft a continuous stream of money and receiving from them a continuous stream of the latest and greatest. But Vista, which was promised within the contract period of software assurance, is still months away, and corporations have basically thrown away money for no upgrade. From what I've read, Software Assurance was a bit of a flop because people didn't like the idea of paying money and not necessarily receiving anything in return.

I've started to get a little curious about your other question. Who on earth is going to buy the upgrade when it's painfully expensive (looks like $200-300), and there are darn few computers for sale today that can run it?

if you visit Dell's web site (and if you do you're a major masochist, sadly - it's terrible), the cheapest notebook computer(*) that's "vista capable" is $969 after discounts. They are still selling $499 notebooks, which are obviously badly underspecified for Vista.

What happens when Vista is introduced? Is this the death of the $499 notebook?

Okay, notebooks are expensive. They are selling sub-$300 desktops. What's the cheapest desktop that can run Vista? If you take the 1GB ram requirement seriously, it's the high-end Dimension E310, at $748. They are clearly doing their best to cheap out this system; it includes a 15" flat panel monitor, a species that I thought was virtually obsolete. And yet it's still more than double what their cheapest system costs.

Now, I guess you can run "Vista Basic" on low-end systems, but Microsoft has given me the impression that this is the option for wimps and masochists (those that have not yet been suitably satisfied by Dell's web site).

I remember that when Windows95 came out, all systems available in the stores on introduction night(**) were more or less capable of running it, and had been for some time. this seems to be the first version of Windows that truly requires all-new hardware just to function at a minimal level.

So what's going on here? Does anyone know the reason they decided on a system with such ghastly requirements?

D

(*) If I were a REAL masochist, I would have gone to all the sites (home & home office, small and mid-sized business and large business, and priced every one of them. However, sadly I am not that mean to myself just to make a point on Slashdot. I stuck to Home & Home Office. You know, it's almost worth the extra $100 a Macbook costs to see a clear web page that shows you their only price and makes it dead simple to buy stuff.

(**) Ah, the days when we felt something like enthusiasm for Microsoft's products!

Re:Too late (1)

Wilson_6500 (896824) | about 8 years ago | (#16027323)

Considering that it's mandatory to have Vista to take advantage of DX10, and considering that DX has become a de facto standard in the gaming industry, lots of people are going to eventually be forced to port over to Vista.

Right?

Re:Too late (4, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | about 8 years ago | (#16027362)

Considering that it's mandatory to have Vista to take advantage of DX10, and considering that DX has become a de facto standard in the gaming industry, lots of people are going to eventually be forced to port over to Vista.

I suspect there will be a lot of developers targeting DirectX 9 for many years to come, since the number of Vista machines will be so much lower than the number of Vista+XP+Me+2K machines. In any case, hopefully some of the developers wise up and move to OpenGL where they don't have to worry about MS refusing to support their graphics API improvements. OpenGL 2.0 will work on all of the above plus the PS2 and PS3 and OS X and Linux.

Re:Too late (1)

bubkus_jones (561139) | about 8 years ago | (#16027389)

Or, the gaming industry can find another standard to use.

Re:Too late (2, Interesting)

nbannerman (974715) | about 8 years ago | (#16027262)

My bread and butter in daily life is Network Management (although some idiot gave me the job title of Director of ICT Strategy as well...), but you make an interesting point. I've moving towards to a non-Windows enviroment for personal use, and probably a Linux-based environment for work use.

But my college uses Microsoft. XP / Offce are the basics of what I support / install / repair.

When Vista arrives, it is inevitable that I'll be rolling it out college wide.

And big business? Well, they'll be doing the same. A lot of the functionality we've been seeing plugged into Vista (not this Glass and New Improved Solitaire! rubbish) has been directed towards business.

Vista will not flop. It'll be pre-installed of every new machine come February 2007; the Microsoft Tax ensures a healthy install base. As for business, I think they'll transition mid-2007, at the latest, when we see the first service pack.

I'm holding off as long as I can; the XP migration wasn't a major hassle, but I know from previous experience that major rollouts can be a pain in the backside. But I'll move accross eventually, because the 'powers that be' will request we migrate to Vista and Office 2007.

Re:Too late (1)

QRDeNameland (873957) | about 8 years ago | (#16027391)

And big business? Well, they'll be doing the same. A lot of the functionality we've been seeing plugged into Vista (not this Glass and New Improved Solitaire! rubbish) has been directed towards business.

After seeing what a major corporation went through to move from Win2K to XP (which was by far a less sweeping upgrade than what Vista seems to be), I can't imagine that big business will be migrating to Vista all so quickly. I can only imagine how many VB6 apps will have problems in Vista. From everything I've heard, XP to Vista will be huge migration effort compared to 2000 to XP, and I have a feeling the business world is going to adopt a more "wait and see" attitude. I have little doubt they will still eventually drink the MS kool-aid, but I think they'll need a lot more prodding this around.

Re:Too late (1)

nine-times (778537) | about 8 years ago | (#16027544)

Vista will not flop. It'll be pre-installed of every new machine come February 2007; the Microsoft Tax ensures a healthy install base. As for business, I think they'll transition mid-2007, at the latest, when we see the first service pack.

Many businesses will not be moving to Vista for a while still. Pre-installation means nothing for businesses. Businesses will keep requestiong XP (or in many cases, Win2000) from their vendor. It's not a big deal to do that, because most hardware vendors expect that businesses don't always like to upgrade right away. But... yeah, an awful lot of businesses are still on Windows 2000, because XP doesn't offer them anything they need, and Vista won't offer them anything either.

Of course, I'm not sure it matters to Microsoft. Whether people buy a copy of Windows XP, Vista, or 2000 with their machine, they still get paid.

Re:Too late (2, Insightful)

lawpoop (604919) | about 8 years ago | (#16027286)

No, I don't think so. There's no way it can surpass the unheralded failure of Windows ME.

Mom and Pop User will continue to buy generic PCs because of the cost, and because that's what they know. Come November or December, you won't be able to find a PC that doesn't have Vista on it. It will be a smashing success, just because it will be on 90% of the computers sold. It's called a monopoly. Even if techies and columnists say it's not worth the upgrade, people won't care. They got used to an underperforming OS with Win98. Soon, upgrading to Vista will be the path of least resistance.

Apple couldn't produce enough Macs even if they wanted to cause Vista to flop.

Re:Too late (0, Redundant)

caffeinatedOnline (926067) | about 8 years ago | (#16027425)

One useless "I moved to Mac, HAHAHA" post, 499 to go...(credit to Daeg)

Re:Too late (1)

RonnyJ (651856) | about 8 years ago | (#16027457)

I predict this will be Microsoft's biggest flop ever.

Windows ME is Microsoft's biggest flop so far IMHO, and from my experiences from using the Pre-RC1 build, there's no way that Vista will come close to rivaling that. Beta 2 may have been disappointing, but Pre-RC1 has had a lot of positive feedback.

This one's a keeper. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027214)

It's been nearly two weeks [google.com] since a security patch has been released for Vista Beta. I think we have a winner. A few weeks of clear sailing and this sucker's ready for Gold. I predict all will be quiet on the security front until the Holiday season, when all our high-end fancy new computers come online with nice, shiny new Vistas.

And when I say "our" computers I trust you know exactly what I mean.

Re:This one's a keeper. (1)

6Yankee (597075) | about 8 years ago | (#16027351)

Windows Vista, now with fewer holes!*

*Than a shot-up brothel.

Oops (4, Informative)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about 8 years ago | (#16027250)

And it still has the ridiculus mandatory driver signing, forcing freeware/open source developers to shell out $500 for a certificate if they want to make drivers that work on x64. All for their precious trusted computing. Wouldn't want those evil x64 criminals installing drivers to rip hd-dvds would they?

Re:Oops (1)

canuck57 (662392) | about 8 years ago | (#16027348)

...freeware/open source developers to shell out $500 for a certificate...

If you can't fix the OS, then charge for certs for it.

It is the next part of MS EEE, MS EEEE. Embrace, extend, exterminate and then extort. Wait until they apply this stuff to music and video encrypting users files...

All this cert stuff when a checksum or PGP signature would have done it. But no money in that.

Linux - Live Free Of DRM

Re:Oops (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027358)

Yeah, and we wouldn't want to be able to track down who made that rootkit either...

And we all know what that mean... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16027254)

"This 'nearly complete' version of the operating system...will be available to everyone else soon."

At Microsoft, this can only mean one thing:
"Ship it!!!!"

Very cool. (1)

cjkeeme (980951) | about 8 years ago | (#16027284)

I'm excited to get my hands on the almost complete version of Windows Vista. Aside from all the negative publicity this OS has received I'm really looking forward to a new interface for my computer.

Save yourself the pain (1)

Winckle (870180) | about 8 years ago | (#16027355)

Dude, just buy a trackball instead of a mouse, it's less painful a new interface.

translation (2, Insightful)

MarsDude (74832) | about 8 years ago | (#16027335)

"We'll keep plugging away on application compatibility"

Read: We're constructing dirty hacks into our newly written clean code so we don't upset our partners. This of course will cause the same side effects as with our previous versions, but hey... it looks better !!!!

P.R. Terminology (3, Insightful)

Detritus (11846) | about 8 years ago | (#16027467)

Where I've worked, what Microsoft is calling a "beta" or "release candidate" would be considered an alpha release. Beta releases are supposed to be feature complete, but in need of testing and debugging.

We installed it today (2, Interesting)

netrangerrr (455862) | about 8 years ago | (#16027500)

As a Microsoft partner for IPv6 Jumpstart, we installed Vista RC1 on multiple machines this morning. Vista is Microsoft's "IPv6 Optimized" desktop system while XP is "IPv6 Capable" of limited operations. We immediately noticed one important change. IE doesn't crash every 2 minutes! Previously, we had to install Firefox administer to run our IP surveillance cameras, security system, and building automation sensor system because the java web interface constantly crashed the browser in Vista Beta 1 and 2.

Re:We installed it today (2, Insightful)

MooUK (905450) | about 8 years ago | (#16027621)

You're installing an unfinished, unsupported OS on your security systems?

This doesn't sound like an amazing idea to me.

Question (1)

mynickwastaken (690966) | about 8 years ago | (#16027531)

How much time passed since the Duke Nukem Forever RC1 was announced?

But Wait There's More (1)

nickthisname (630860) | about 8 years ago | (#16027620)

Call now and we will throw in a matching pair of endless loops free of charge! Mmmm ... multi-threading
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