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Edgy Eft Knot 2 Released

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the color-of-toast dept.

183

Klaidas writes "The Ubuntu project has released a second Knot CD — an alpha version of Edgy Eft. Notable new features include a new 2.6.17 kernel, Gnome 2.16 beta 2, Firefox 2.0b1, OpenOffice.org 2.0.3 and much more. It is availible for download on Ubuntu's image server. The final stable version is still slated for release in October 2006."

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183 comments

1st post! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030275)

W00T!

Godwin'd before it even started (3, Funny)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030276)

The Ubuntu project has released a second Knot CD

"Nazi D"? Godwin'd before it even started.

Re:Godwin'd before it even started (0)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030290)

i don't get it ...

Re:Godwin'd before it even started (0)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030346)

Ok, i get it now, think i'll go drink more coffee ....

Re:Godwin'd before it even started (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030376)

Probably only funny to people who believe in fairytales. Their brains are wired differently.

Re:Godwin'd before it even started (3, Informative)

gvc (167165) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030388)

You have to pronounce Nazi as not-see to get the pun.

I pronounce Nazi as gnat-see so it doesn't work for me,
unless I translate to Ahmerikhan.

what's to translate? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030589)

Americans pronouce it like the Germans did, with the "a" as in "Vater". "Gnat-see" would be more like "Naezi" (with an a-umlaut) but even that's not quite the same thing; you'd sound like a South African.

"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1, Insightful)

6Yankee (597075) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030283)

Edgy Eft? FFS. That's even worse than Breezy Badger. What's that supposed to tell me or any other random person about what I'm downloading?

Who comes up with these names?

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030305)

Its not supposed to tell you anything.

Its a code-name. Its the devs having a little fun. The official name will be "Ubuntu 6.10". Think of it like "Windows Longhorn". Longhorn was the code-name. Does Longhorn tell you anything?

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (5, Funny)

Shemmie (909181) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030413)

It tells me it'll take a long time to arrive, and likes to blow its own horn.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (2, Funny)

FatdogHaiku (978357) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030423)

Does Longhorn tell you anything?

It will be cheesy....

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

k3vlar (979024) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030428)

It tells you that the Microsoft people really like Whistler/Blackcomb. (Longhorn is the name of a bar at the base of the mountain, and the most likely source of the name)

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

dorkygeek (898295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030528)

Well, where I live, it was the name of a brothel. It tells you something about the Microsoft people...

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

KZigurs (638781) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030460)

Windows 35.05 anyone?

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (3, Informative)

grammar fascist (239789) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030320)

Hoary Hedgehog was the worst by far. I actually kind of liked Breezy Badger, and Dapper Drake exudes coolness.

Yeah. Edgy Eft. That's a step backward. You could call it 6.10 instead if you like, and that would tell you the year and the month it was (or is going to be) released. But really, what does "Vista" tell you about what you're downloading? Even 2.6.17 doesn't help much - just that it's somehow better than 2.6.16, and that's if you're familiar with the version numbers. You'd really need to read the changelog to find out, so it's still not much better than "Vista."

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (3, Informative)

grammar fascist (239789) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030333)

":s/downloading/buying" please. I wouldn't want to be seen as advocating piracy or anything, especially not on Slashdot. :D

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030833)

There were definitely some free Vista betas...

This email announcement explains why... (2, Informative)

epl (140556) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030377)

Re:This email announcement explains why... (1)

6Yankee (597075) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030398)

From TFEA:

Edgy is all about cutting edge, perhaps bleeding edge, brand new code and infrastructure

No it's not - it's all about jumpy, nervous. Not really the sort of image I'd want to be projecting. OK, so you can do worse, like not checking the registration you've been given before taking your new plane to an airshow [airliners.net] .

At least now I know WTF an eft is, though.

Re:This email announcement explains why... (1)

x_MeRLiN_x (935994) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030990)

Or release an update that breaks thousands of X installations..

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

Vulcann (752521) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030561)

Hoary Hedgehog was the worst by far. I actually kind of liked Breezy Badger, and Dapper Drake exudes coolness.

This sort of naming has plusses and minuses.

The plusses are obviously, like you said, the "cool" factor. Even if the name isnt cool, its still annoying enough to remain in your memory long after "Red Hat 8.0" or the like. Its like those stupid TV ads where the flick has no bearing whatsoever with what they are selling. Its either cool ...or it sucks. But either way you remember it well.

The obvious minuses are with PHBs who are in control of the technology direction for companies. They would rather go with a name like Vista rather than "Edgy Eft" because Vista sounds corporatish enough. Like the old saying goes "No one ever got fired for buying IBM". If the PHB has to make an argument for "Edgy Eft" to a bunch of other PHBs, they would lampoon the effort neglecting the obvious benefits of Ubuntu. I'll bet anything that corporate adoption of Ubuntu is hindered in no small part because of the name.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

grammar fascist (239789) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030609)

Hear, hear. ("Yes, sir, we're upgrading all of our computers to Edgy Eft next month.") They should just use year.month after it's released, and use the names for the future products and places like /etc/apt/sources.list.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

menkhaura (103150) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030701)

Just say aloud "Edgy Eft Knot Two" three times in quick succession...

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

Millenniumman (924859) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030323)

At least they don't name them after cows.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (2, Funny)

Crayon Kid (700279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030611)

I'm looking to start a campaign for making the next release the "Flatulent Flamingo". I think it has potential. People are going to remember THIS one.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

Directrix1 (157787) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030739)

How about Flaming Fags? Double meanings abound.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (2, Informative)

bsdluvr (932942) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030404)

Eft is just another word for newt. A newt -a small aquatic salamander- is able to re-differentiate its cells, and regenerate its eyes, spinal cord and limbs. Maybe the new name is trying to say Ubuntu is as robust as a newt? I don't know...
It's a bit far-fetched anyway, and it doesn't sound as cool as Breezy Badger.

A newt? (1)

Slithe (894946) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030522)

Well, it will get better.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (3, Insightful)

kolme (981304) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030412)

Well, at least you actually know what 'eft' means, but for non-native English speakers (like me), Ubuntu codenames are a nightmare. They're hard to pronounce and hard to remember. I've had to look every frikin' fancy codename up in the dictionary, and then I was disappointed to know what they mean.

They should use more common words ('longhorn' is not too bad). It's like I release a program and I call it 'El Guepardo Guarrete". Would you remember that name?

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1, Insightful)

DoubleRing (908390) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030710)

Well, at least you actually know what 'eft' means, but for non-native English speakers (like me), Ubuntu codenames are a nightmare. They're hard to pronounce and hard to remember. I've had to look every frikin' fancy codename up in the dictionary, and then I was disappointed to know what they mean.

They should use more common words ('longhorn' is not too bad). It's like I release a program and I call it 'El Guepardo Guarrete". Would you remember that name?


Erm, you actually bothered to look it up? If you did, would you mind telling us what the heck an eft is? I'm pretty sure almost nobody here knows, so no, it really doesn't matter. I could care less what the name of a release is. You realize that the name of the "program" is Ubuntu--not Edgy Eft. If you named your program 'El Guepardo Guarrete', sure I would be pretty confused. If they named the next release of Ubuntu as "Ubuntu: Guepardo Guarrete", I'd just think of it as Ubuntu, and I'd probably remember it just because it was an odd name. Besides, um, Ubuntu is not an English word. Furthermore, the point of the name is kind of to be hard to pronounce. Have you ever heard of tongue twisters? It's usually an alliteration (a series of words that start with the same consonant sound) meant to be very difficult to say, but they end up being very memorable for that very reason.

For being a non-native speaker, you seem to have an extensive familiarity with English. Your grammer is better than most of the posts here (and that's not sarcasm), and you have an uncanny knowledge of idioms (like frikin')

As a Side Note (3, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030966)

The official releases are also numbered by date (Year.Month) so you could refer to Breezy Bagder as 5.10 (October 2005) and Dapper Drake as 6.06 (June 2006). I really don't see the big deal, if the name is hard to remember/prounce, a pair of numbers should be okay.

From Wiki:
4.10 October 20, 2004[10] Warty Warthog
5.04 April 8, 2005 Hoary Hedgehog
5.10 October 13, 2005 Breezy Badger
6.06 June 1, 2006[11] Dapper Drake
6.10 October 26, 2006 Edgy Eft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(Linux_distrib ution) [wikipedia.org]

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030728)

Well, at least you actually know what 'eft' means, but for non-native English speakers ...
Native English speakers don't even know what an "eft" is. I don't even think it's an english word. At least it's short and easy to pronounce.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

ahsile (187881) | more than 7 years ago | (#16031016)

It a newt, or a life stage of one...

check on wikipedia

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030973)

They should use more common words ('longhorn' is not too bad). It's like I release a program and I call it 'El Guepardo Guarrete". Would you remember that name?

They can call the next version "Ubuntu Guepardo Guarrete" ("El" just doesn't fit the naming scheme) for all I care, I'm perfectly fine with it. I don't know what it means, nor do I care but I don't need to either. As long as it's somewhat guess-pronouncable and not like "dnjebrvroljik" I'm fine with it.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (2, Interesting)

SamSim (630795) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030504)

Thanks for those comments, everybody above me. Now for the ACTUAL explanation.

In Terry Pratchett's book Strata there is a race called the "Ehfts". They are short fluffy things IIRC which nobody can quite understand. The quote is "Everybody thought Ehfts were funny, and nobody knew what Ehfts thought of anything". They get seen doing boring menial work, like sweeping floors. An Ehft computer is a room full of Ehfts, each one handling part of the mathematics. And Ehft books are very long strings with knots tied in them encoding the story. You read them by feeling your way along the string and feeling each knot. In the book, the protagonist, Kin Arad, "signs" an Ehft's book by tying a personalised knot on the end.

Strata features a sort of proto-Discworld in it. It's not a Discworld novel and the disc world featured is not the same one in the Discworld novels, but they are very much along the same lines. I like the novel, to be honest, I think it's a fun read. Ditto The Dark Side Of The Sun, which is Pratchett's other pre-Discworld scifi book.

Thank you and goodnight.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

omeg (907329) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030523)

What's up with these names? They're just beta names thought up by the developers. They are not for the rest of the world to see once the release has been made official.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

MadJo (674225) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030778)

> Who comes up with these names?

Mark Shuttleworth comes up with the names. Or at least he has the final say in it.

And it is different and notable, it's refreshing. And it doesn't bother me at all.

But if you want you can say "Ubuntu 6.10" instead.

Re:"Edgy Eft"? Seriously? (1)

GURU Meditation 8000 (790934) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030935)

hey! its not just the distros. anyone been keeping an eye on the codename releases for the actual Linux kernel recently? Snow Leopards, Albatrosses etc are all present and correct.

Edgy Eft Knot 2 Released (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030288)

Woo, yeah, sweet, Edgy Eft! I've been waiting for years for that, whatever it is!

Knot, yeah, the Knot edition of Edgy Eft, woooogaaawoooo! Most sweet and tasty, and VERSION TWO to boot! How good is this?

Has anyone else here just cum all over their keyboard in excitement?

Really! knot.

ubuntu is by far the leader (2, Interesting)

legoburner (702695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030298)

Ubuntu is now the leading choice for linux by quite a margin [distrowatch.com] . Us poor gentoo users languish in 10th place :(

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030311)

And in the top 10 , 1 is Debian and 3 debian based.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030316)

Sorry 4 are Debain based, so half of the top 10! Did't know Knoopix was Debain based ...

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030442)

Ubuntu is debian based as well.... so I guess debian is really the top dog.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

Crayon Kid (700279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030603)

Is it just apt? Or do their release system (stable/testing/unstable and so on) is part of it too?

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

johnlittledotorg (858326) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030477)

The recent DesktopLinux survey shows Ubuntu ahead by a huge margin:

The most popular desktop of Linux today is... well, most of you can already guess without seeing the scores: Ubuntu. Ubuntu, with 29.2 percent of the vote, has been the hottest community Linux since early 2005. While this Linux has had its problems lately, such as the update fiasco on August 21st and 22nd, users continue to download, install, and love it. And, why not? It's an excellent distribution. It's not just users who think this; reviewers have also labeled it the Desktop Linux Champ.

more: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5816278551. html [desktoplinux.com]

Follow the light. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030325)

>Us poor gentoo users languish in 10th place :(

You can just upgrade to Ubuntu and escape poverty then.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030358)

Riiiggghhhttt, the page hit counts at distrowatch are an accurate measure of a linux distro's popularity.
I'm a long-time linux user and clicking on your link was my first visit ever to distrowatch. What I learned
is that readers of distrowatch seem interested in Ubuntu. Or, mabye it's just that users of Ubuntu are
more likely to visit distrowatch than, say, users of OpenSUSE or Fedora. Either way, I'm sure that the
low hit counts for Gentoo are because Gentoo users don't like to web-browse while their boxes compile.

Page rank? (3, Informative)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030399)

Isn't page rank on distrowatch based on clicks to the various distros pages on that site, rather than what distro you're actually using?

"The Page Hit Ranking statistics have attracted plenty of attention and feedback. Originally, each distribution-specific page was pure HTML with a third-party counter at the bottom to monitor interest of visitors. Later the pages were transformed into plain text files with PHP generating all the HTML code, but the original counter remained unchanged. In May 2004 the site switched from publicly viewable third-party counters to internal counters. This was prompted by a continuous abuse of the counters by a handful of undisciplined individuals who had confused DistroWatch with a voting station. The counters are no longer displayed on the individual distributions pages, but all visits (on the main site, as well as on mirrors) are logged. Only one hit per IP address per day is counted."

...yeah, so what it actually means is that, because it's well known and at the top of the list, Ubuntu is usually the first page clicked. This records one hit, and then no other hits are recorded for that IP for the rest of the day.

So it doesn't really say whether it is the most commonly used distribution, merely that it gets the most clicks to its page within distrowatch.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (2, Informative)

dvice_null (981029) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030414)

The Linux Counter statistics claim that Ubuntu is not on the top, Debian is the number one, but then again, I'm pretty sure that people signing up for this counter are hardcore users, while Ubuntu has propably attracted a lot of new users. But it is the best stat I know, or atleast another view in this issue:
http://counter.li.org/reports/machines.php [li.org]

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030453)

Ubuntu is now the leading choice for linux by quite a margin [distrowatch.com] . Us poor gentoo users languish in 10th place :(

Wait, are we choosing our operating systems based upon popularity again?

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (2, Insightful)

westlake (615356) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030549)

Wait, are we choosing our operating systems based upon popularity again?

If you anyone but a Geek, the answer is, and always will be, "Yes!"

Popularity solves too many problems for the user for the decision to go any other way.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030588)

Many do, as a helpful community is extremely important at least to newcomers.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

bubkus_jones (561139) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030529)

Ubuntu was mentioned on Veronica Mars.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030563)

My Gentoo-using friends assure me that as soon as they finish compiling the new list of top distros, Gentoo will be #1 again.

Re:ubuntu is by far the leader (1)

alveraan (945484) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030679)

I'd say Ubuntu is the best distro for new users because of it's ease of installation, ease of use and impressive handware support (or automatic hw recognition...). Gentoo, on the other hand is more for experienced users who want to have control over every aspect of their OS. Debian is ideal for servers. Gentoo is by far my favourite, but every distribution has it's target audience. So it's not about which distribution is the leading one, what's important is that the user has the freedom to choose.

60 days? (2, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030306)

Today is the 2nd of September.
Edgy Eft is scheduled for release "in October 2006".

That's about 60 days maximum to go from a 2nd alpha ... to beta ... to release. Isn't that a bit optimistic? Particularly for a release that is developer driven and packed with candy.

Re:60 days? (2, Interesting)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030328)

They did it with 6.06. Of course, there were problems that needed fixing in a swift patch,
and some systems didn't boot (mine included!) without knowing yer stuff ;)
So yeah, the Ubuntu developers are definitely a wee bit optimistic.

Re:60 days? (5, Informative)

Ian Alexander (997430) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030342)

Today is the 2nd of September.
Edgy Eft is scheduled for release "in October 2006".

That's about 60 days maximum to go from a 2nd alpha ... to beta ... to release. Isn't that a bit optimistic? Particularly for a release that is developer driven and packed with candy.

 
Well, feature freeze is in 5 days, so the only things coming through the pipeline in those two months are bugfixes/security patches.
 
And even if it's not good enough, they can always fall back on "It's edgy eft! What are you complaining about?"
 
As a general FYI, Edgy Final should be out on the 26th of October, barring disaster or pushbacks.

Re:60 days? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030928)

Well, feature freeze is in 5 days, so the only things coming through the pipeline in those two months are bugfixes/security patches.

He's probably not used to someone actually using alpha to mean development, beta to mean bugfixing/testing and release candidate to mean "might be final". From what I understand the Vista "RC" isn't even feature-complete, so that makes it in reality an alpha release. The only problem is that marketing would never accept that.

Re:60 days? (1)

mdhoover (856288) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030390)

Probably realistic, we seem to be reaching another nice convergence of stability points. Things just tend to build and work without much of a fight nowadays;-)

Re:60 days? (1)

zdzichu (100333) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030463)

There is a release every 6 months. So 60 days is 1/3 of development time.

Where does "knot" come from? (1)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030336)

With Dapper, "flight" made a lot of sense...is this the equivalent of "flight" for eft? If so, why "knot"?

Re:Where does "knot" come from? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030366)

A knot is the collective noun for newts (an eft is a young newt).

Re:Where does "knot" come from? (2, Funny)

ilmdba (84076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030533)

He turned me into an eft!!

Re:Where does "knot" come from? (1)

snilloc (470200) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030606)

An eft?!

(playing my part here...)

I'll bite... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030648)

It got better!

A few things me likey (5, Informative)

Gavin86 (856684) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030384)

Just skimming the specs [launchpad.net] of some of the new things implimented:
  • Optimized Live CD layout for faster boot
  • Thin clients local device support
  • Using dash instead of bash which makes the boot, "30s faster"
  • updated Galago
  • much faster shutdown process

Re:A few things me likey (2, Informative)

temcat (873475) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030580)

Using dash instead of bash which makes the boot, "30s faster"

More like 3s faster. And dash breaks scripts that shebang to sh instead of bash (a fairly common practice). Granted, they should've use the right shebang in the first place, but these scripts worked before, and now they don't! This may seem as a minor annoyance - you can always relink sh back to bash. But the problem is, an average user won't understand why his 3rd party app suddenly stopped working with Edgy. There is no error message that would explain the problem in layman's terms and offer a solution. Therefore I think that 3s of boot time aren't worth the potential trouble for users.

Re:A few things me likey (3)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 7 years ago | (#16031010)

Honestly, anyone who's installing 3rd party software on Ubuntu Edgy Eft that also happens to require a bootup shell script is going to be able to figure this out, or will already be aware of the issues and plan for it.

I love Linux, and Ubuntu's hands-down the best distro I've ever used (best OS overall, too) but let's be realistic here. :)

Edgy Eft has bugs! (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030392)

I thought that made it a rc (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/01/21 29200)

Still lacking the x86_64 / i686 multiarch support (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030425)

Other distributions like Fedora, Mandriva, etc. have the feature of installing both 32 and 64 bit libraries, so you can compile for either one using your compiler -m switch. Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake) has a lot of these dual libraries missing (like the 32-bit libXcursor.so that prevents google-earth from running on Dapper64, or even wrongly linked, like the /usr/lib32/libGLU.so linking to a 64 bit version. They need to fix this in order to appeal to the cutting edge users.

the new ubuntu, now with 2.0 ! (and beyond) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030439)

Firefox 2.0 BETA, gaim 2.0 BETA, OpenOffice 2.0, GNOME 2.16, Kernel 2.6.17, Python 2.5, F-Spot (with support for Flickr, a 2.0 Application)..
See, it's all about 2.0 now! join the bandwagon!

Strange, doesn't come with Ruby on Rails..

Still not that impressed! (3, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030445)

While the whole world seems to be very impressed with Ubuntu and its derivatives, I am still to be impressed after having tried it for about three weeks. I will however give credit where it is due. For one, package management seems to be very much improved.

What still bothers me is the fact that in Ubuntu's GNOME file selector interface, I cannot simply paste a URL and have the program open the referenced document. It is also incredibly ugly for me...why? In KDE, this is possible but the fonts and general look are very ugly and are already starting to look ancient.

Multimedia on the web is still a big hassle. Even for sites that offer RealPlayer streams, GNOME's RealPlayer, even if installed cannot grab the stream by default!

The help system is still very wanting. Some have even told me it does not exist. Assumptions are made that everyone can go online and get the neccessary help. But what happens when you are on the road with no internet connection? Windows beat Linux on this.

Before I get modded down for what some will call trolls, I will stop here but I agree that Ubuntu and Linux still have a long long way to impress folks like me.

Re:Still not that impressed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030478)

<heart skips a beat>

$ man fcntl

...

<pheww> ... Nope, looks like the help system is still here for me. Maybe you forgot a package?

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030507)

Linux definitely needs more offline help. Perhaps it was a bad decision to make -doc packages
separated from the main binary packages. Some programs don't have proper manuals at all,
which should be corrected. The distro creators should really have a strict system where packages
don't make it into the main repository (stuff that ends up on the CD and DVD) unless it's fully
documented, and has a newbie quickstart manual.

Qt and Real both need work. I accidentally have them working in Opera because
I install the right packages on new systems I install. I tend to install each additional package as I
remember what I actually need, but don't visit media heavy pages first thing after installing,
so I don't know what gets my plugins right. Definitely an issue, but partially cause by license
problems, I'd guess.

I have no problems with fonts in KDE. Perhaps I always get the right font packs, perhaps it's because
I choose fonts that look right to me, or perhaps you are using an LCD? LCDs are a sore point in Linux
at times. I cringe every time I see the RedHat installer before X is configured on an LCD, for example ;)

Look into the repositories (universe, multiverse, restricted) for fonts. Microsoft fonts are there, too,
but due to people forcing fonts on webpages, I seem to have some sites turning UGLIER if I install
them. There are also many good free fonts, and somebody is nearly done with a great Times New Roman
replacement (not a good screen display font, but nice for print).

I'm very satisfied with Ubuntu since 5.10, if not impressed. Everything works as it should (minus having
to track down a repository that holds greyzone mediasupport like encrypted DVDs and MP3s), and
I can mount up /home carried over from a previous system and get to work shortly after installation.

And no, you shouldn't be modded down for constructive criticism ;)

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

mgkimsal2 (200677) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030518)

What still bothers me is the fact that in Ubuntu's GNOME file selector interface, I cannot simply paste a URL and have the program open the referenced document. It is also incredibly ugly for me...why? In KDE, this is possible but the fonts and general look are very ugly and are already starting to look ancient.

What's different about the 'ubuntu' GNOME file selector? Or are you just meaning that the GNOME file selector on the whole is bad? I'd agree with the second part - GNOME in general just isn't that great (usefulness, visual appeal, etc.) Obviously that's just my own view, and others will no doubt disagree. But given KDE vs GNOME, I've taken KDE every day. I still try GNOME every so often (every 6 months or so, perhaps) and it never feels any better.

Can you "paste a URL and have the program open the referenced document" in GNOME for Fedora, or Mandriva, or Suse?

Re:Still not that impressed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030544)

No. He's just trolling.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030569)

What's different about the 'ubuntu' GNOME file selector? Or are you just meaning that the GNOME file selector on the whole is bad?

I guess I mean both. You sound to be a Linux user, so I will ask you this:

In your opinion, is that default [GNOME] file selector the best there could be? Is the the utmost best the could be created? I guess you'd answer "no" and that's what I am talking about.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

mgkimsal2 (200677) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030939)

I am a linux user. I've used Linux on and off since RH 5.2. The day to day useful things I expect a desktop to do have always come up short with GNOME. I met a GNOME developer a few years ago who was showing off their printing work. I asked if he'd ever seen the KDE printing stuff, and I got 'no, we don't look at KDE all that much'. Now, that may have been just him, and wasn't representative of most GNOME developers, but it struck me as a very ignorant thing to do, given that the code is available to inspect and be inspired from.

The GNOME file selection has been promised to be 'better' (more HIG-compliant?) for years now, and it's still fundamentally unusable. Just today (using Kubuntu) I needed to open a file in a GNOME app. To just hit the file, I started typing '/var/www/html', but the '/v' on its own puts all of '/var/' in there (auto-populates) such that when I type the 'r' (from var) I get '/var/run' and the r automatically prepops to whatever the first 'r' directory in 'var' is (/var/run). It's freakin' annoying. And even more annoying, I can't find the app that had that behaviour. Other GNOME apps I'm trying now don't do that. Aha - it's the mozilla file upload dialog. Mozilla is apparently a GNOME app, according to GNOME proponents. To the extent that it doesn't look or function like a GNOME app, I like it. :)

Anyway, I think the usefulness of a distro, while enhanced by KDE over GNOME, still relies in the packaging and defaults used. A couple examples:

1. RedHat/Fedora put a request_body_limit (or something like that) in Apache configs, set to some small number. This was probably intended to help prevent attacks, but is not mirrored by anyone else's distro defaults (that I know of), and causes confusion for people who are used to more standard defaults.

2. Ubuntu (and recently mandriva) seem to be pushing IPv6 usage, even to the point of breaking otherwise perfectly good IPv4 installations (upgrade from mandriva last year just decided to change everything to use only IPv6).

One of the best experiences I had from an 'out of the box' standpoint was Xandros. I installed it last year, and it immediately set up a printer shared from my wife's computer during the installation process. Ubunut 'everything just works!' has never done that for me, nor has mandrake/fedora or others.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 7 years ago | (#16031022)

Aha - it's the mozilla file upload dialog. Mozilla is apparently a GNOME app, according to GNOME proponents.


Mozilla and derivitives use their own widgets, IIRC. Not GTK.

Re:Still not that impressed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030548)

What still bothers me is the fact that in Ubuntu's GNOME file selector interface, I cannot simply paste a URL and have the program open the referenced document.


I think you mean CTRL+L?

Re:Still not that impressed! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030554)

So, you don't like Gnome's file selector and you don't like Gnome's realplayer... What exactly does that have to do with Ubuntu? If you wanted KDE, why didn't you get Kubuntu instead?

As for the help system... It still exists, just as much as it exists in any Linux distro I've ever used. The only real difference I see here is that Ubuntu has a really good wiki and forum online also. That doesn't mean it doesn't have the regular help pages, man pages, etc. What exactly were you looking for? And since when did Windows get useful help pages anyway?

Re:Still not that impressed! (2, Insightful)

dorkygeek (898295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030556)

What still bothers me is the fact that in Ubuntu's GNOME file selector interface, I cannot simply paste a URL and have the program open the referenced document.

How hard is it to hit ctrl+l and then paste your path?

Re:Still not that impressed! (3, Informative)

Talchas (954795) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030572)

First of all, its not very obvious. Second, while you can do that, typing a path is painful due to automatic completion of file/pathnames. I never know how many letters of a path I have to type before it completes and I am forced to start typing the next path segment. Its a really good way to stick yourself three directories down the wrong path if you type quickly. While there may well be a way to turn this off, I have no clue where it might be.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030924)

Ctrl-L is the shortcut for getting into the location bar in pretty much every web browser (Cmd-L on Macs). It's pretty obvious if you RTFM.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

ForumTroll (900233) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030601)

I've switched to Xfce and don't use GNOME anymore, but if I recall correctly you can paste a URL into the file selector by pressing Ctrl-L. It's definitely not very convenient or obvious but the feature is there. In my opinion, GNOME has become unusable because of lack of available options and the mentality that they know the way you want to do things.

Re:Still not that impressed! (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030617)

Nope! It has consistently failed me when it comes to PDF documents. All GNOME software meant to handle PDFs can only open them locally!

I agree (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030608)

As I mentioned here [slashdot.org] , I like SUSE (the only distro that worked 100% on my laptop and has WPA-PSK) and MEPIS (which used to be Debian-based and is now Ubuntu-based, but is much nicer than either IMHO...pity about WPA-PSK not working out of the box). I prefer KDE to Gnome, especially after tweaking the fonts a bit. I don't really understand Ubuntu's popularity.

Ubuntu 6.06 couldn't even detect.. (1)

traveller604 (961720) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030447)

my bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Both from logitech.. so fuck them. Crappy OS :p

A what? (1)

tereshchenko (715289) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030449)

Ubuntu, Knot, Edgy Eft - it's like kids making "language" of their own.

Re:A what? (1)

AfricanImpi (879572) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030667)

How so? All these words are legitimate words with legitimate meanings. And how different is it really from other Linux distros (Gentoo and Red Hat come to mind) and even Apple with such names as Panther, Tiger and Leopard?

Is it because the distro's name isn't in English?

good 4 everyone (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030451)

personally i use Slackware for my KDE desktop and Debian Testing (etch) for my Gnome desktop, but i am glad for Ubuntu becoming popular and winning over windows users over to the Linux side of computing...

my only fear is about the way ubuntu implements sudo and that first user account having so much privileges and what is confusing is the password for that first user is used for administration/root access, i noticed ubuntu will remember the password for convenience, i know to disable these things but a new user wont, and i fear someday a clever evil clown genius will figure out a way to exploit this to mount an attack on ubuntu and it gets in the press that Linux is as vulnerable as windows.

Re:good 4 everyone (3, Interesting)

Adelbert (873575) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030514)

I agree, for a single user, "sudo" is kind of useless. However, if you have a large number of users, sudo is a godsend.

In the standard Linux/Unix setup, you have a lot of users with minimal control of the system, and one "superuser" (root) who can do anything. This all-or-nothing setup is inherently risky, and a bit outdated.

With sudo, a good sysadmin can use the "sudoers" file and select which users can do what. They can change this quickly and easily, and make groups and so on sans hassle. Users cannot, for security reasons, be given the root password. They can, however, just be asked to re-enter their own password to verify that it is in fact them.

In short, sudo is a masterful idea. Also, it allows for some rather funny cartoons [xkcd.com] .

What Ubuntu lacks (3, Insightful)

Kilz (741999) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030525)

What Ubuntu lacks is a good 64bit version.
One of the advantages we are told of Ubuntu is that we don't have to wait on the long Debian development cycle. While that sounds good to the average i386 Ubuntu user. The amd64 Ubuntu user still has to wait on Debian. The reason I say this? In one word Multiarch.
Multiarch was supposed to make it into Edgy. It was mentioned in the announcement by Mr Shuttleworth
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/ 2006-April/000064.html [ubuntu.com] But it is no longer included. The reason? Ubuntu developers are waiting on Debian to develop it.
Its like 64bit users are second class citizens. No multiarch while distro's like SuSE, Fedora, Gento and others are already multiarch. No Wine, a 64bit firefox where plugins dont work, and other 32bit programs that must be manually added along with their lib's.
All the while eye candy is added to the 32bit version. If it wasn't for the community and people there I would have left long ago. Its sad that people with 64bit systems are told to install the 32bit version because things are missing.

Another New Feature (1)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030584)

Starting a BitTorrent tracker in the default installation - oh, I'm sorry. That was a "feature" of Dapper.

As a Windows user... (2, Interesting)

NeuroManson (214835) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030587)

I welcome our Ubuntu overlords. But seriously. As far as something that can allow the average Windows user to get a taste, or even build experience in using the Linux OS, this is the best way to go.

For one, you can use the live CD to figure out how to get Linux to do everything you want, without making major changes in your existing setup.

With luck (and perhaps a determined developer base), by the time Vista shows up to ream all of us Windows users in the ass, Ubuntu (and subsequent imitators) will be "general public" ready, so we at least have some options.

Re:As a Windows user... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030902)

Needs one more thing than 'luck' to convert this WinUser. WiFi must *work*. In BB it did for me, first time, but DD killed that - both on upgrade and on fresh install, on several laptops. It found the card(s) in early seconds, but had lost track once set up. We need a 'wizard' to fix it, not paternal advice to type random sanskrit in a 'terminal'. And you can't then download multi-megabytes of corrective upgrades unless you're on line - why won't releases slipstream?

STFU WITH UBUNTU ALREADY. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16030754)

Honestly. It's not all that special, there are much better distributions out there – hell, even Windows is probably better (although yes, I am a Linux user).

Re:STFU WITH UBUNTU ALREADY. (-1, Troll)

Linegod (9952) | more than 7 years ago | (#16030837)

I agree with you completely. It's like Ubuntu has a paid marketing department who are overhyping every half assed feature and decision that Ubuntu makes - and digg, /. and the rest are falling over themselves to post their stories, either because they are paid off, or they will accept any claptrap that comes their way.... hmm.....

Laptop support (1)

fa2k (881632) | more than 7 years ago | (#16031006)

I download all the Ubuntus and try them on my HP dv5000 (I know; not a fantastic machine by any means). I'll ditch Windows when it supports Sleep mode and WiFi out of the box, or with an effort comparable to that of installing drivers on Windows. The LiveCD installer is a good idea, in every way, except it makes the boot look really slow. It's great to be able to "test drive" it:)
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