Man Gets 7 Years for Software Piracy 296
mytrip writes to mention a C|Net article about the largest sentence for software piracy ever handed down by a U.S. court. Nathan Peterson of Los Angeles has been levied with an enormous fine after selling millions of dollars worth of software between 2003 and 2005. "U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III on Friday ordered Peterson to pay restitution of more than $5.4 million. Peterson pleaded guilty in December in Alexandria, Va., to two counts of copyright infringement for illegally copying and selling more than $20 million in software. Justice Department and industry officials called the case one of the largest involving Internet software piracy ever prosecuted. "
So? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So? (Score:5, Funny)
Espically since (Score:5, Insightful)
So while I firmly believe that copying software illegal for personal use is a minor civil infraction, like speeding, and should be punished accordingly (a small fine that's enough to make you not want to do it but proportional to the harm) I believe that commercial copyright infringement is much more serious.
Re: Especially since (Score:2)
Duh ?!?!?
If the price is right, people will buy anything. Why do you think pawn shops are doing good business?
Re: Especially since (Score:4, Funny)
I was thinking prime locations, friendly staff and clean stores with outstanding merchandise... no?
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Or maybe it's like the 'change bank', it's all about volume?
Re: Especially since (Score:5, Informative)
Most states have extremely strict laws regarding the pawn trade; and most pawn shops today are extremely careful concerning their business practices.
Pawn shops in Florida (as an example) are highly regulated and are required to work with both state and local authorities. Forms (including make, model and serial numbers) of merchandise are filled out in triplicate and provided to the local police. When make, model and serial are not applicable (as in the case of jewelry), exact measurements (in both carat and composition) of stones and and metals are recorded as is a precise description of said piece. All of the above are matched against local and state stolen item reports on a weekly to monthly basis. (I use Florida as my example, as that is the state in which I worked; I gladly tie that in with others, as the National Pawnbrokers Association allowed me the opportunity to meet and speak with pawnbrokers from all over the country -- 99% of which followed the same practices).
Often, in the case of theft, the Pawn Shop owner is the one that actually loses out in the case of stolen merchandise; as the property is then pulled into state custody as evidence and eventually returned to its owner.
The pawn trade itself is, by and large, nothing more than a lending mechanism for the lower (to lower-middle class) establishment. Afterall, please tell me a single bank that's going to loan Bob Whoever a c-note to cover his insurance payment while waiting for a drywall job to pay up. Granted, it charges a higher interest rate, but even that is regulated in most states.
I might suggest you take a look at the business models of both Cash America and Value Pawn as an example of how the industry has changed. Personally, I think the indy shop has more in the way of value for the lendee, but I mention them only to counter the "dark and stinky" shop notion that seems to surround the pawn industry.
So, if you want to cite a comparison between immoral activities (such as the active sale of pirated software and something else), why not point the finger at professional lobyists, criminal defense lawyers and/or telemarketing firms?
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So while I firmly believe that copying software illegal for personal use is a minor civil infraction, like speeding, and should be punished accordingly (a small fine that's enough to make you not want to do it but proportional to the harm) I believe that commercial copyright infringement is much more serious.
Where to start? Speeding endangers not just yourself but other road users and pedestrians. The amount of energy in your car increases with the square of speed making stopping harder and your car m
Civil vs Criminal Copyright Infringement (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, this guy is a "criminal", while the "average pirate" that downloads warez (and distributes copies to friends) is guilty of a "civil" infraction of copyright infringement. Unless this "average pirate" does this for more than $1000 wort
Re:So? (Score:5, Interesting)
Richard Stallman often encourages the sale of Free Software (a position which many people unfamiliar with his ideology find confusing).
Why shouldn't third parties be able to sell the things they own for profit? Or are we bound to this idea that "For Free is good, but for profit is bad". Businesses are not, by their nature, bad. Much like a loony tunes television episode I recall watching as a child "It's not the automobile that's evil; it's the driver".
There are many piracy groups which are often seen as charities which almost aren't; pirate bay for example are most certainly profitable. Whether they are a business by the letter of the law I'm not entirely sure.
Other "piracy groups" are very obviously web startups. Isohunt, for example, provide a very useful service, and, I expect profit from it.
If something is bad to do for profit, it is normally bad to do it for free also. I think that piracy is neither. Binary is the property of whose media it is on, and to hell with anyone who wants to say otherwise.
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There's nothing wrong with selling something you own, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about software piracy. Software piracy is when you take a paid-for program that someone else owns, break the copy protection on it, use it, and possibly redistribute this. Nowhere in this do you own the software.
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"If you own the music on the CD what is the economic incentive for the artist to share it in the first place?"
I'll save you some time and run down the standard Slashdot responses to this one:
"address the balance that needs to be sought between the creators rights to profit from thei
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But what about movies? Each of the LOTR movies cost over 100 million dollars to make. If you took away the profit incentive, there would be no way that anyone would go into such an undertaking for free, just because it's "inatly humam or fun". Your argument may hold for small projects but not large ones, and if large projects like the LOTR
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Tolkien had been writing his Middle Earth sagas for decades. He showed them to a publisher early on who told him they were unpublishable. He continued writing anyway. Eventually of course a publisher did turn up who took a risk. Of course there was a profit motive in the publishing, but not the writing.
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Let's just say you are the guy I don't want to see drooling over my newly restored '56 Chevy.
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You might want to swap out that 40 watt bulb in your head for at least a 60, if not 75.
How in the world do you get "perfectly proper" from copyright infringement? Just because it isn't stealing doesn't necessarily mean it's OK.
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
The way of thinking of RIAA and friends is: If I copy the file, I have it for free. If I didn't copy it, I would have paid for it. This obviously doesn't take into account the far more likely case: if I didn't copy it, I wouldn't ever have it - I wouldn't pay, I wouldn't buy. The likehood I'd spend $3000+ on a legit copy of AutoCAD is near zero, so implying that I cause any loss to Autodesk by drawing a plan of my garden in an illicit copy, is simply bullshit.
This case is entirely different though: the buyers were paying money for software they believed legit. The money would go to authors of the software, but instead they went to that guy. In this case the loss of profit is not potential, assumed and unlikely, but definite and a fact.
It's like a difference between charges of causing risk of life or injury and a first degree murder.
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in one case you are not depriving the maker of anything, in the other every sale is taken directly from the legitimate owner.
Sold $20 returns $5.4 = Profit! ? (Score:4, Interesting)
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A few years ago, a friend had some over seas utility bonds mature. He had the
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"If I compare it with the pirates here at our country, the rule of the thumb for them is usually the price of the media/disc * 15 which usually falls on around $2.0 - $2.25 per software/disc. So for every $30 "average" retail price software out there, he makes $2 which would amount to only around $1.2 million."
These were his prices:
Sounds like he was making more than $2 per sale.
I've been enjoying the heck out
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Firstly, he has the disclaimer at the bottom of the home page:
This service is designed for current legal owners of the software listed at this site.
Then if you move away from the home page, you get a different note:
iBackups.net uses the latest secure 128 bit encryption when placing all orders so you may consider your order process secure and as safe as it can be!
(because nobody ever reads the home page in deatai
The law (Score:2)
He was stupid to allow himself to be caught. Lost 7 years of your life for only money.
Again everything in this world seems related to money one way or the other.
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Reminds me of a job I had.
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In Argentina, most of the above middle-class population (I'd say 10-15% max) does that to avoid paying local taxes. They get foreign credit cards (in foreign banks) because Argentines have mostly european ancestors (therefore citizenship if applied), and avoid paying taxes in large purchaes (electronics specially).
However the government has been cracking down recently, not allowing cheaters
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I'd recommend not messing about with the Tax Dept. If the Gov can't get you on anything, they get you on tax.
They could walk up to you and say you owe hundreds of thousands (or even more!) for unpaid taxes for the past X years. They could say Mr San Marcos, how can you afford your houses and cars with your declared income
A tad harsh (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't 7 years a bit long in comparison to more serious crimes of violence and fraud? Perhaps 7 years is average for a fraud conviction, but I don't understand why rapists [in Canada at least] get about 5 year sentences, mercy killers [Robert Latimer] 10 years, and serial killers [Karla Holmolka] gets 9 years. Where is the equity?
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Also, if he pays restitution, what's the point of the jail sentence?
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There's no deterrent to others if the only punishment is paying back what you made and carrying on with your life.
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And why is that bad? Would you rather have sociopaths committing armed robbery or selling bogus software?
Anyway, I'm a little tired of the way sociopaths tend to dominate every discussion of criminal penalties. Most criminals aren't sociopaths, and trying to design your criminal justice system around sociopaths is stupid. That system is supposed to deter and rehabilitate, and those are things you can't do with outright sociopaths.
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a) They won't give up their established entreprises when they branch out to piracy.
b) I'd rather that software pirates not use violent means to get payment for their merchandise or guard their turf, like drug dealers do now.
Re:A tad harsh (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure that this man had sold this software at prices far below what any legitimate retailer could afford. With that being a reasonable assumption (since he sold so damn much of this software), the people he sold it to would probably have been unlikely to purchase the software at all had it not been at such a deep discount. If they would not have purchased the software otherwise, there is a net damage of almost zero to the manufacturer of the software. There is no lost supplies, real property, or investment. They did not have to do the advertising for this person's business either. If anything, the pirated software he did sell made for great PR to those software companies. The people who would've not otherwise purchased the software at regular or semi-discounted prices are probably pleased with their purchase, and will now be far more likely to buy the new improved releases of that product later on.
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On the one hand, you have someone who was convicted of several thousand counts of software piracy. Comparing that to what someone gets for maybe a dozen acts of rape would be useful to factor in. On the other hand, if a child rapist is going away for less than 7 years, a fix would start by putin them away for longer.
Remember to always factor in the number of coun
Hog Wash (Score:2)
You know very well that's not really true. Convicted pedophiles are marked for life, having to register where they live and sometimes not able to live certain places at all. Sex crimes generally prevent people from obtaining decent employment as well. People convicted of sex crimes are punished until the day they die, not just while they are in prison. Many would say t
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I will bet that for every pedophile who carries through on his or her desires, there are a thousand or more who share the same desires and would happily jail for life anyone who
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Ergo, somebody who has actually commited rape is considered monsterous, whereas someone who's merely thought about it is not. And moreover, the rapist has proven through action that they are willing to commit such a crime - in other words, they have identified themselves as dangerous.
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Rape is almost never prosecuted in the federal courts.
Economic crimes that impact interstate commerce are prosecuted frequently in the federal courts. The Feds have never taken economic crimes lightly.
However, the chances are excellent that when on the rare -
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"While I hate thieves more than most, it is quite maddening and ironic that we put software pirates away for longer than we do child rapists."
Can somebody please provide an example of somebody who was convicted of raping a child and who received less than seven years? I'm sure there are examples out there, but my guess is that they are quite rare. By comparison, the seven year sentence for software piracy was the largest such ever. So, seven year sentences for software piracy are also exceedingly rare.
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I know you chose "child rapists" for your comparison to provoke a specific emotional response, but let's think about what happens to those people when they're caught.
Convicted felons might not have much honor, but the unwritten prison code deals pretty harsh justice onto people who hurt children. A molestor is much more likely to be killed my another inmate than a software pirate. And even one does surviv
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I doubt this'll make much difference, but I'll throw it out there: The article says he was charged with two counts. Would I be correct in assuming that if it had been one count, h
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In the American system crimes of violence are almost always prosecuted at the state and local level. Prisons are crowded, courts are stressed, and there is pressure to cut a deal.
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It's not a moral wrong, authoritarians call it "copyright infringment" and I personally think it deserves encouragement.
Software developers don't deserve money just because someone passes binary to another person. The binary is the property of the person who owns the
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We need to design our legal system in a way that is to the maximum benefit of society. Your way would hold technological development back, possibly halt it.
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Software can still be profitable even when it is not directly sold for a profit. In fact, it's probably just as profitable.
We have big companies just like they do: Red Hat, IBM and large parts of Novell. Except our software is Free, for anyone to use. IBM conduct business in the Free/Open Software areas which measures investments and profits in the billion-dollar range. To pretend
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But, here is my question for you: would you, given the chance, create a legal system in the USA where the Free Software model was the only one allowed? In other words, directly charging for software distribution and licensing that does not allow copying would be illegal.
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No, I wouldn't. While I don't agree with the closed-source method, and think it's an immoral action, I wouldn't stop companies from making software and attempting to charge money in return for it. Free Software must compete with this ki
OSS Profitability (Score:2)
We have big companies just like they do: Red Hat, IBM and large parts of Novell.
IBM [wikipedia.org] is a horrible example of profitable free software. They sell hardware, license technology, and do consulting to the tune of millions. Without free software, they would still have their millions - open source's contribution to IBMs bottom line is negligible.
Novell [wikipedia.org] initially profited by gaining a monopoly in the 80s. They created their own proprietary network standards (IPX/SPX) and sold the then-expensive cards tha
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So, salary is a tradeoff between taking the risk that the software won't sell and living comfotably but not extravagantly right now.
Obviously, there is some level of salary that makes up for having no royalties at all.
Seven years? (Score:2)
And the lesson is... (Score:2, Funny)
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7 years? (Score:2)
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1) Software companies not making the money for the copies used
2) The guys who thought they were buying the real thing, only to eventually find out they don't have Adobe/MS support, because they bought a copied version
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2. fair enough. I guess I didn't realize that people were buying software from the guy without realizing that they were getting a pirated copy. (15% of the price didn't tip them off?)
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The piracy argument of "wouldn't otherwise buy" is a lot less effective here, simply because people are buying the stuff, albeit at reduced prices. I think that argument has merit in economic harms discussions in regards to people playing with photoshop as amateurs, but most of the people paying for pirated copies would probably use it somewhere.
Insofar as people getting duped, why would you buy software you thought was pirated when 99% of it is free on th
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Mostly I feel uncomfortable handing out harsh punishment to non-violent criminals. If you gave a compulsive shoplifter 7 years in prison, I would feel the same way. Although I might be more sympathetic to the shoplifter, they might have a legitimate illness.
Also, I would like to point out that I never mentioned the whole "wouldn't
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2) And for the record, I still think that this guy getting less jail time than some rapists is frakked up.
Worse yet... (Score:5, Informative)
... his website ibackups.net [ibackups.net] has been defaced.
(serves him right)
Why Not a Billon Dollar Fine and Life? (Score:2)
White collar crime should be punished. (Score:2)
I know there is a huge difference between murder and copyright/fraud etc, but White collar crime should be treated as seriously as others. A 7 year sentance should discourage anyone of trying the same thing, if this guy got 12 months with 6 on good behaviour whats to stop the next guy doing the same thing and hiding his profits in an offshore account with the intent to serve a minimum sentance.
Cases like this are not
Punishment is no deterrent (Score:2)
Whether a crime is committed depends only on two factors: How much is to gain and how likely is it to be caught. The only thing punishment means is that people will go out of their way to avoid it, probably committing worser crimes to circumvent it.
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People do need to be punished, but the punishment should also fit the crime. And when it comes to intellectual property, rarely is there even a victem. Lost sales is NOT victimization because you cannot guarantee those numbers would have been concrete sales. What he did do was violate the copyright codes and there should be defined punishements for that. However, like most things in the US court system ther
DRM (Score:2)
iBackups.net (Score:2)
The individual responsible for the operation of the iBackups website has pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal copyright infringement in the U.S. District Court for the E
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Yes, but they still could have used a better background than red. :-D
Proof You Can Do Anything With Statistics (Score:2, Insightful)
The BSA has been making up numbers of this type since its founding. Please note, that their acronym has many other fun derivations. These Bull Shit Artists are claiming that there has been a 34 BILLION dollar loss, and worse, it's a 1.6 Billion dollar increase over last year! While they have yet to PROVE unequivocably that there is this
Good. Should have 20 years probation too. (Score:4, Funny)
What Ibackups.net did, kind of like MP3.com (Score:3, Insightful)
I see lots of people saying things like, "He deserves it and death!" but no one bothering to report exactly what ibackups.net actually did. According to this [complaints.com], the guy was selling "backup coppies" of software that people claimed they already owned. The business model, presumably, was made to fill the very real service gap in commercial software for people who manage to lose their original distribution media. As far as M$ and many other companies, people like that are out of luck and have to buy the software all over again. This happens much more often than you would think. Unlike MP3.com, it was not possible to check if the customer had a copy by asking them to insert it though he could have asked for product activation keys. In any case, this guy was not simply pressing CDs and selling them, he depended on the honesty of his customers.
It's no surprise that this guy got slapped down after the demise of MP3.com's similar backup scheme.
I don't really understand the vindictiveness of the responses. Once again, using free software avoids all of this monkey business. Why give money to people who throw people in jail for trying to help you? It's not like the guy actually hurt anything but the bottom line of some of the country's most wealthy companies. Seeing as those companies are still doing just fine selling software to complete suckers, I don't see where this person hurt anyone. Financial ruin should be punishment enough. I don't want my government wasting law enforcement resources on nonsense like this.
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Umm, WOW. So I can shoplift from WALMART because it's a big company?
"Seeing as those companies are still doing just fine selling software to complete suckers, I don't see where this person hurt anyone"
Yeah, I know I'm a sucker for thinking proprietary software is ever worth anything. The GIMP is so much better than Photoshop, right? Can you really claim with a straight face that Audacity is b
Yes, complete suckers. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, I know I'm a sucker for thinking proprietary software is ever worth anything. The GIMP is so much better than Photoshop, right? Can you really claim with a straight face that Audacity is better than SoundForge?
I can tell you with a straight face that only a few professionals actually need the one or two tweaks found in non free software and that even they would be better off if software patents and device makers games did not make things that way. Given the choice between a free and non free progra
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"The business model, presumably, was made to fill the very real service gap in commercial software for people who manage to lose their original distribution media."
"Unlike MP3.com, it was not possible to check if the customer had a copy by asking them to insert it though he could have asked for product activation keys. In any case, this guy was not simply pressing CDs and selling them, he depended on the honesty of his customers."
When head shops tell you that their stuff is for smoking tobacco, they
Crimes and Punishments (Score:4, Insightful)
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I am guessing "his end" will not be better off after 7 years in federal prison!
I can see it now: GPLNarc (Score:5, Funny)
It's like any prohibition: criminalize the behavior and you get even more social dislocation as a result. Then, we're all victims.
The solution is to mandate the use of Free Software everywhere.
>>
Well thats a pretty stunning juxtaposition. If the existence of laws creates crime, won't criminalizing closed-source software make criminals out of closed-source software developers, causing even more social dislocation among them and their customers? I can see it now: "Pst, buddy, you need a productivity suite? I got a holo-certified copy of Office 2007 right here. This "#$& is real, holmes -- usable UI, attractive ribbon interface, backwards compatible with all your documents, contains actual documentation, and a comes complete with a toll-free number for tech support. I just gotta ask you -- you ain't a GPLnarc or nothing, right?"
"Open up, this is the police!"
"Aww #$%", its the GPLaw. Quick man, hide that "#$" under a Knoppix CD and pretend we were discussing something innocuous, like crack."
Better slang for GPLaw (Score:2)
"Awk, man, its the pengs! We're so fcuk'ed."
Re:Serves him right. (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, you got a -1 Informative on Slashdot. Put that on your resume!
Does it? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Serves him right. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Wait... (Score:5, Informative)
*Actually, every industry in any way affected by piracy/counterfeit goods does exactly the same thing.
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Mainly because it never existed in the first place. Older people (like me) tend to talk of the "good ol' days" because the human mind represses bad memories and enhances good ones. For example, a pack of smokes in the 70's cost $0.50, but by the same token in 1976 I was taking home $60/week.
I do agree with the population thing but how do you stop people breeding without resorting to a totalitarian state?
Offtopic: population (Score:2)
By giving women control over how many babies they have and opening up other work and professions to them.
Countries with near equality for women are the ones with controllable population growth.
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What? I think in most states the license fee is on the order of $50.
A minister will usually charge something between $100 and $200.
If you desire more, you are so entitled, but you should try to remain within your means.
Photoshop for $600? (Score:3, Funny)
Fact is that if people actually had to pay for products like Windows they would try to find freeware. THE ONLY REASON WINDOWS MADE ITS MARKET PENETRATION IS BECAUSE IT WAS PRE_LOADED
People like me were expected to pay for windows as a bundled product then reformat the disk and install another OS we paid for like OS/2. Microsoft owes me quite