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Mandriva 2007 RC1 Released

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the try-before-you-buy dept.

142

boklm writes "The first Mandriva 2007 release candidate (codename Mona) is out. The final version is due soon. 2007's new features include Gnome 2.16 with New 'Ia Ora' Mandriva Theme, parallel initscript (for faster boot), 3D desktop (with both AIGLX and Xgl to support more graphic cards). Installable Live-CDs including Gnome or KDE are available in different languages, and because it is a live-cd it is possible to try it without installing. Don't forget to report bugs if you find them, in order to get a solid final release."

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142 comments

Madriva's old news (0, Troll)

Fyre2012 (762907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079082)

Do people even stull use this distro? Everything it does, Ubuntu does better.
Personally, I prefer Gentoo, but for what Mandrake^H^H^Hiva is supposed to be, is there really a userbase for it anymore?

Re:Madriva's old news (1, Troll)

Fyre2012 (762907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079265)

i gotta learn to post anonymously when I drink.

Funny tho, another poster with the same opinion gets modded insightful. I should learn to articulate better, or again, just post anonymously when drinking. There goes my Karma.

Re:Madriva's old news (2, Insightful)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079601)

He started with "I'm really not trying to troll or flame" or something similar. That's the internet equivalent of "I'm just sayin'", which some people follow up rude or instulting comments under some illusion that it makes their statement less insulting or rude. Apparently, it works.

Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Freggy (825249) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079634)

The administration tools of Mandriva are *a lot* better than Ubuntu's. Have you read all the blog posts about how difficult it was to get a printer working with Dapper's default Cups configuration. In Mandriva, your printer will be configured automagically during install if it is switched on or connected to the network, and after install, it suffices to start an automatic detection of printers, and there you go.

Mandriva also has graphical tools for configuring a basic firewall, setting up xgl and aiglx, configuring a VPN connection, configuring back-ups, configuring your UPS,.. Ubuntu has none of these.

Thanks to parallell init, Mandriva 2007.0 also boots faster than Dapper, and it has a more recent kernel and better support of some very recent hardware. Remember that Ubuntu is already some months out.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079779)

ubuntu has firestarter for configuring a firewall, although its a standalone application which isnt installed by default.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Freggy (825249) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079814)

ubuntu has firestarter for configuring a firewall, although its a standalone application which isnt installed by default.
It's not an Ubuntu specific application, and it is not installed by default, so that's exactly the point why Mandriva is better here. Mandriva has developed a firewall system themselves, and install and configure it by default. Mandriva's firewall also supports automatic blacklisting and a whitelist. Mandriva has firestarter available too by the way: [frederik@nova Desktop]$ urpmq -rY firestarter firestarter-1.0.3-4mdv2007.0

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080363)

i wasnt arguing, i was just making sure people didnt get the impression that there was no graphical firewall config available for ubuntu, because there is.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

opkool (231966) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079939)

That's nice from Ubuntu to let you use an open source program available to all Linux distributions.

In Mandriva you can choose firestarter, the "wizzard-guided" firewall set up tool (great for newbies), shorewall, raw iptables and others.

I't like saying "Fords are superior to other car brands b/c I can install an aftermarket radio on my Ford".

Peace

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080358)

i wasnt saying it was superior, i was just pointing out that a simple to use graphical firewall config system is available to use under ubuntu, which the parent to my post seemed to overlook. i qualified it by saying it was a seperate application, and that it isnt installed by default. i never claimed it was a product of the ubuntu project, just that it was availabe with ubuntu, in case people got the impression there was nothing at all.

people are so suspicious and aggressive on this bloody forum.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

Anarke_Incarnate (733529) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080205)

So how, then, is this better than SuSE? SuSE has all this plus Novell behind it and people using it.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080249)

I've been a solid Mandriva user for about 4 years now. I keep on looking for something better when I get a little annoyed, but really, I haven't been able to find anything better. There's always little stupid things that don't work in other distros that really start to annoy me. Recent problems include:

SUSE 10.1 not being able to install any updates because of some weird error.

SUSE 10.1 not being able to install packages and reporting that it could not resolve dependancy XXXX where XXXX is some stupid number that means nothing. It should at least tell me which file or package name i'm missing as a dependancy.

Fedora completely failing to initialize X, even when trying to use standard VESA drivers, when all the other distros i've tried (probably around 6 or 7) have no problems.

Fedora not including mp3 support out of the box. Sorry, i know there's patent problems and everything, but give me a break. Most other distros include it, and stuff like this only helps to perpetuate the myth that Linux isn't ready for the desktop.

Ubuntu opening up an entire desktop in order to start the install process, and then not making the install all that straight forward.

Ubuntu only including a single CD, which means that there's a lot of software that isn't included on the installation disk. Most distros is up to 3 CDs by now. Mandriva RC1 2007 is almost a full DVD (although only because it's dual architecture).

Gentoo offering no installation procedure whatsoever except to enter a bunch of text commands on the console. Sorry, but it's 2006, get a graphical install program. I am quite handy with the console, but I only have 1 computer, and don't really like having to print out the install instructions, and then have to type in a bunch of stuff. I don't care if it's text based, just include something so that I don't have to figure out some obscure procedure.

Stuff like this is why I have stuck with Mandriva for so long. There are some kinks, it's not perfect, but it seems to be devoid of stupid little problems that plague other distros. It's really the best desktop distro i've ever tried, and it's the only reason i've been using linux as long as I have. If i'd have to put up with some of the usability issues i've experienced with other distros.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080446)

I'd suggest you try again Suse 10.1, but this time throw the zmd/zen and all the Mono crap that Novell is putting on Suse right into the garbage can as quick as possible. Then, install Smart:

http://labix.org/smart [labix.org]

You're good to go. No dependencies problems, no hassles to install multimedia packages, no trouble updating. Works very nicely for me, at least for now ;-)

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16080502)

Is this link in the OpenSuse wiki? Maybe someone should add it?

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080559)

Yes, it's in there, but the last time I looked it was barely informative. I find this one is much better:

http://susewiki.org/index.php?title=Smart#Installi ng_smart [susewiki.org]

BTW, Smart comes already included in Suse 10.1, but I'm not sure the included version comes preconfigured with the channels most people are going to need (guru's packages for example) and it's probably outdated anyway, so get the latest version from the URL the susewiki.org wiki provides.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080531)

The whole point of my post is that I shouldn't have to make changes like this to the base install of the operating system just to get it functional. With Mandriva I don't have to put up with stuff like this, and I've never had to put up with stuff like this. Releasing a .1 operating system that can't even update itself out of the box is terrible, and it makes me stop using it very quickly. Because I cringe at the thought of what would happen if I had to do something complicated.

Re:Better grahpical administration tools (1)

bhalo05 (865352) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080620)

I agree with you, what Novell did to Suse 10.1 is just unforgivable. I've known many users that have been Suse users for years and have ended up abandoning Suse because of Novell's mistakes. Anyway, the thing is Suse 10.1 is a really nice distribution if we ignore the zmd/zen issues, and solving that is a matter of minutes so I thought you might be interested in giving it another chance.

I've personally never found a distribution that I liked out of the box, so as they say: pick your poison :)

Re:Madriva's old news (3, Interesting)

ErroneousBee (611028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079691)

I still recommend it to newbies for the following reasons:

  • Suse makes it a bit harder to install media players, and makes it hard to update the system from the command line.
  • Suse has fewer 'entertainment' packages.
  • Redhat is even more business oriented than Suse.
  • Mandriva's partitioning tool has the best useability. and this is the step a newbie is most likely to get wrong.
  • Ubuntu, in its vanilla install, has very inferior configuration tools. To do anything sophisticated (E.g. A static IP address) you need to vi stuff in /etc.
  • Ubuntu is gnome based, I think KDE is better. I think new users will get confused over kubuntu, edbuntu, etcbuntu.

Note that I do not dis any of Suse, Redhat or Ubuntu. These are all mighty fine distros, and I run Suse and Ubuntu on a laptop and server. I even think Ubuntu is better than Mandriva for some newbies, as they wont want to do any configuring after the install.

I dont recommend gentoo as I have tried it twice. Install took days, common hardware was unsupported out of the box, configuration was all about editing /etc files, and there were regular fuck-ups that just broke the system when you tried updating packages. Its also increasingly pointless to compile now that 64bit is here and distros produce 64bit versions.

Manriva's weaknesses are:

  • Horrible artwork.
  • Some poor decisions to use bleeding edge releases of KDE (2006 had quite a few niggles caused by going to 3.4 with its API changes).
  • Some configuration dialogs have poor useability (e.g. setting up printers).
  • A seriously deficient layout to the club pages. Its really hard to find anything useful on them, and the whole site is confusing.

Re:Madriva's old news (2, Insightful)

Shawn is an Asshole (845769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079965)

Ubuntu, in its vanilla install, has very inferior configuration tools. To do anything sophisticated (E.g. A static IP address) you need to vi stuff in /etc.


Very true. I temporarily switched to Mandriva at 10.1 and found the configuration tools to be very nice, but I ended up switching back to Redhat (Fedora) after a few months. Fedora also has decent config tools (system-* are quite nice). Fedora pissed me off for the last time a few months ago, so I'm now an Ubuntu user. I was really supprised by the lack of decent config tools, and the networking scripts are quite bad. I ended up having to write my own.

Have they finally fixed the update proplem? When I was using it I kept having to manually change mirrors every few weeks as one would stop responding. That's what I like about yum, it automatically switches to a different mirror when one isn't reachable. With Ubuntu the listed servers are always up and fast.

Ubuntu is gnome based, I think KDE is better.


I used to think that until 2.14, and I've used KDE as my desktop since '99. With the progress Gnome has finally made, it's going to take a lot to make me switch back to KDE. Give it another try.

Horrible artwork.


Have you seen the defaults in Fedora or (even worse) RHEL? Mandriva is beautiful by comparison. So is Windows 95.

Re:Madriva's old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16080348)

"To do anything sophisticated (E.g. A static IP address) you need to vi stuff in /etc"

Not so. On a default Ubuntu install, System->Administration->Networking. You can type your static IP in there, along with the gateway, subnet and DNS. Standard stuff, really.

Re:Madriva's old news (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079692)

I use it and I love it =)
I tried ubuntu some month ago - I didn't like it, although I can't remember why I didn't like it... might have been hardware issues... I'll defenitely try ubuntu 6 before installing mandriva 2007 final (when that's done)

Re:Madriva's old news (1)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079824)

Mandriva's the only distro I've ever used that I can just install and forget about it. Everything 'just works'. Ubuntu, on the other hand, I can't even get to install.

Re:Madriva's old news (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080296)

I used to reccomend Mandrake to everyone.. then when they switched the mandriva release was so buggy and broken I had to start suggesting something to the LUG members so I tested and started suggesting Ubuntu.

Mandriva did a bone headed move and really screwed up MAndrake on their first mandriva release. it was crap, buggy installer and it sighup'd more than any other linux install I ever saw.

I'll try it again if it's back up to the quality that mandrake was noted for.

Re:Madriva's old news (1)

sudden.zero (981475) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080558)

Are you serious? I have used both distros and Ubuntu is no way better than Mandriva! For starters the "user" that Ubuntu creates to start with has root privileges or a close approximation there of. Not just that but it auto logs in this user to the gui which is even less intelligent. I mean put first time user together with root privs in a gui environment and you are asking for trouble. Mandriva creates a root user and a non-privileged user at start and this way is secure. I mean most lazy people will not bother to create a non-root account they will just continue to use the account created on install. Secondly Mandriva's package management system is way smoother than Ubuntu's. Thirdly I just installed the new Mandriva on my laptop and I didn't have to configure anything at all. Even my wireless worked out of box. I would like to see Ubuntu do that.
zero

Last week was Windows Vista RC1... (0)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079088)

Seems like everyone is coming out with a release candidate for next year.

3d (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079097)

smeedee.. who cares

Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (4, Insightful)

Conorb (443598) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079099)

There was a time, when Linux distros were measured by how close they were to in terms of functionality to MS Windows. Now they are inovating like crazy and this 3D desktop from Mandriva beats anything that will ship in Vista.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (2, Insightful)

jack_csk (644290) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079133)

Why am I getting such a weird feeling that they are copying Mac OS X?

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (3, Insightful)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079300)

Well OS X got Widgets right out of KDE's Konfabulator, and Finder and Safari's tabs out of Firefox (which got it from Opera, which got it from ...). Good ideas spread around, get improved upon and integrated with other ideas, which spread around further. This is a good thing, and it's not one way.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079306)

Another better example came to mind just after I posted that; OS X's Spaces. Many X11 WMs have had workspaces for ages, but who isn't glad to see Apple's take on the idea?

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

montyzooooma (853414) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079315)

"Good ideas spread around, get improved upon and integrated with other ideas, which spread around further."

Yup. Once the patents on the good ideas expire. :-p

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (2, Insightful)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080587)

This is an excellent reason for open source projects to publish early and often.
Get as much prior art out there so that there are fewer ideas patentable by the
private sector.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079628)

KDE never had konfabulator. but you make a good point. konfabulator was first created for mac os x by the people who brought "Kaleidoscope!" but before konfabulator there was desktopx on windows and desk accessories on the early mac os.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16080318)

Safari = Konqueror

    there was even a spat between Apple and KDE for not releasing the modified Konqueror code in Safari to honour the GPL.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

nebula169 (623863) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079192)

Stuff like this has been around for a long time (I remember playing with spherexp years ago) but your average windows user doesn't typically use virtual desktops, and your typical linux user doesn't need all the special effects when switching virtual desktops. Things are now not only measured up against windows by newer users, but also mac os x. And with os x pushing all their eye candy features, I'm sure we'll see more special/neat gui effects.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

afd8856 (700296) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079657)

I wouldn't mind extra eye candy on my Dapper desktop. Eye candy is good as long as it doesn't slow the desktop and it doesn't keep you from getting work done just as fast as before.
But, for example, I find that shadows on windows are extremely important when dealing with lots of small windows, at it makes them easier to distinguish.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (3, Insightful)

ZakuSage (874456) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079323)

Unfortionitely, until they start working with ATI's proprietary drivers, roughly half of all computer users (myself included) won't care about AIXGL or XGL since they won't be able to run them.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079409)

You are a fucking looser. The MAJORITY of computers users have an intel integrated chipset. And the last ones run correctly aiglx.

The majority = Intel. Then, there's nvidia. And then, you are a little less % than nvidia.
So not, don't count on "roughly half of computers users". There's no such thing as half of computers users using an ATi.

Thank god, they are not all that stupid.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

ZachPruckowski (918562) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080442)

The majority of Intel graphics cards are in computers whose owners (business work desks or basic non-techy home computers). Most tech-oriented people have some sort of ATi or Nvidia card

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

jcupitt65 (68879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079594)

XGL works OK on my ATI laptop. It did take a bit of annoying fiddling to get it started six months ago, I imagine it's easier now.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079866)

Actually the Club version of Mandriva will automatically detect and use the proprietary drivers for both ATI and NVidia. That is in addition to Acrobat Reader, Flash, etc.

Re:Mandriva's 3D Desktop beats anything from Vista (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079874)

I have played with the 3D stuff, and it is quite impressive. But it is also not very stable yet (at all). Plus, KDE's kwin doesn't "do" 3D yet, so you have to use an alien window manager, causing other issues.

Unfortunatly, I think it will be another year before the 3D desktop option will really be ready for general use.

Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (4, Interesting)

cloricus (691063) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079103)

As a long time user of Mandrake till about two years ago I'd like to ask a very simple question; what is its place in todays modern Linux desktop world?
 
This isn't a troll or a flame as I enjoyed using MDK back in the day though really it is still as bloated and confusing as when I used to use it (I've played with the latest version extensively). Ubuntu and Novell SLED seem to serve the purpose that Mandrake used to fill far more effectively and I can't help but think that those still working on the free parts of Mandrake are wasting resources that could be more effectively used to help other areas in more up to date (philosophy wise) distros...Like decent GUI tools for wireless networking!

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079145)

I agree with you... I would prefer good functionality + decent UI than a "cube" screen interface on a 2d monitor. Maybe I would install this when they release "cube" monitors... (hey, had anyone filed a patent for that?)

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

dbcad7 (771464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079248)

I am happy with my current setup, but I am downloading the live CD iso anyway.
I figure blank disks are cheap, and if it is too annoying, I dont have to install it if
I don't like it.. Probably won't install it permently anyway, because I'm an apt man.
But I thought it was interesting enough to try it out.

("I'm an apt man" now there's a t-shirt phrase !)

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

Fyre2012 (762907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079318)

if you're an apt man (as opposed to a man apt, which is rather informative) you should enjoy the following:
Sudo T-Shirt [xkcd.com]

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079317)

I don't get it... How would a cube / 3D monitor help you here.
With a 2D interface, you have to rotate the metaphor for a cube, with a 3D interface, you have to rotate the real thing.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (2, Insightful)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079170)

"I can't help but think that those still working on the free parts of Mandrake are wasting resources"

I can't help but think that those people would not work on some tools if there would be some other free tools that did the same job, the same way, so if there's a need for those tools than it's a good thing that somebody works on them, moreover, being free anyone can use them so is not really a waste.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

theantix (466036) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079242)

Anything that could be salvaged by another project would not be a waste, granted, but there is a heck of a lot that is just plain duplication. Testing/Bugs/QA, distro-specific documentation, packaging -- those things are largely wasted if the poster was correct that Mandrake is a dead end it really would be a waste of effort.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079322)

Anything that could be salvaged by another project would not be a waste, granted, but there is a heck of a lot that is just plain duplication.

Exactly. It's the same with car manufacturers. They all go off and develop their innovations separately - Different traction control systems can work by either cutting the ignition, reducing fuel or braking the wheels, for example.

Now it's true that each has advantages and disadvantages, but if all car manufacturers standardised on the same system it would reduce their costs, and none would have an unfair advantage. As it is, the only ones who benefit from all this choice are the people who buy the cars, or in the case of Linux distributions, use the operating systems.

It's a process called "competition" and is a fundamental part of a healthy capitalist economic system. It's a real shame format lockin is stopping it working on the operating system market...

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

also-rr (980579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079182)

Like decent GUI tools for wireless networking!

Linux already has a decent GUI tool for wireless networking, nm-applet being rather more slick at handling mixed wired/wireless and roaming environments than OS X.

It was however mostly polished after the last round of distro releases and so it'll probably be in more of the next generation released in the autumn.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079225)

Nothin bad to day about ubuntu or debian or fedora that I have tested but I think one very good point in Mandriva is that it
offers very easy to tools for configuring various aspect of distry no matter whether they are for server or client side.
Sometimes server setup issues needs also manual tweaking but even then I use mandrivas tools to set the basic setup right.
(If it has not come in a way I want directly after install)

Anoter good thing is that Mandriva has always had very broad range of installable apps in their own and third party extra repositories.

Mika

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (4, Informative)

toddbu (748790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079226)

I'm with you on this one. I ran Mandrake / Mandriva for a long time, but finally gave up last year and switched to Ubuntu. One huge problem for Mandrake is that they've never been able to put out two good releases in a row. That wouldn't be so bad if you could just skip every other release, but at one point their end-of-life policies didn't cover the last stable release. At that point I just gave up and switched distros.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079892)

A better comparison would be Kubuntu, not Ubuntu. Talk about silly though, the two projects (K/non K unbuntu) SHOULD have been merged together. It is just silly to have to do a separate install, just because you want a nice KDE environment or Gnome environment. Mandriva addresses that MUCH better (and always has... and long before any other distro did with as much elegance).

In any case, you are correct that Mandriva faces stiff competition from not only Kubuntu, but also SuSe and Fedora. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. We all like choice, but it does make you wonder just how far a Linux distro could go if all the energy from the dozens of distros went in to just a few.

In any case, to address your "two good releases in a row", that is exactly why Mandriva has moved to a yearly major update process instead of the older two or three times a year. There is good and bad in that, too. But I understand their logic.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (0)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080097)

Talk about silly though, the two projects (K/non K unbuntu) SHOULD have been merged together. It is just silly to have to do a separate install, just because you want a nice KDE environment or Gnome environment.
Why is it silly? If you know which one you want, just download that one, and then you don't have to wait for the only one to download (and given how big gnome and kde, including both could easily push Ubuntu to two disks...). If you want to try them both, you can either download both live cds, or install one and then type
sudo apt-get install [k]ubuntu-desktop
. I think it makes a lot more sense, especially to newbies. Ok, not the command to get the other one, but I think it's helpful to newbies to keep the window managers seperate since that's one of the biggest differences to them.

Uni (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079427)

My university college runs Mandrake on basically all lab computers (dual boot with Windows). Doesn't answer the question, but some people seem to prefer it. If there's a future there, well who knows.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

Budenny (888916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079474)

Mandriva is still one of the only distros one can install for a naive user, and be sure that any issues that come up can be handled by you and him/her over the phone - thanks to the drak tools. Its the real strength. Backup, printers, networking, everything is available simply and immediately.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (2, Informative)

BeeBeard (999187) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079559)

What is Mandrake's place these days? That's a tough question. It didn't used to be much of anything: Mandrake originally started as a file-by-file Red Hat clone that included KDE, back when Red Hat Linux in all it's RPM glory was the hottest thing on the block. Seriously. There were some misunderstandings with the old Qt licensing (that have since been resolved), and Red Hat made the logical choice of backing its own pony by putting Gnome in their distro instead. But there was a problem--people still liked their KDE. "Ah ha!" thought the Mandrake folks, and they included KDE. To sweeten the deal, the Mandrake people optimized their distro for modern CPU's.

That was ancient history. After that, Mandrake started to develop some really user friendly configuration tools to go along with their distro. The installer and UI were polished, the customer support was great, and all in all, Mandrake developed a great reputation as a good choice for new Linux users transitioning from Windows--the exact share of the market that Ubuntu now commands.

Then came the name change. Oh God, the name change. Whatever kind of goodwill and name recognition that Mandrake had developed in the Linux market was squandered in one fell swoop. I realize that sometimes a company has no choice with these things, but changing their name to something that sounds like a little-known part of the female anatomy was a poor business move.

"Mandriva" is still on the map, still doing what they've always been doing--making quality, user-friendly distros that people have now started to snub for whatever reason. But the important thing to remember is that the "hot" distro that everyone is using at the time changes every now and then, mostly based on the quality of their latest distro. The RPM-based distros had the most users for a while, and now the Debian-based folks are on a hot streak (somewhere, in a small, dark corner, the Slackware users are laughing their asses off ;). The pendulum might swing the other way before we even realize it. I don't know if this latest release by Mandriva is enough to make that happen, but it looks like a great start.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (1)

cool_arrow (881921) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079621)

maybe it's not a troll but the effect is the same. Just use mandriva and find out. Perhaps install it under VMware.

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (2, Interesting)

mavenguy (126559) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079713)

As have some other repliers, I feel the same way. I've used mdk from, IIRC, 7.x and have upgraded since, up to 2006. At the time it was a great distro for someone who lacked the skill set to run a more "hardcore" distro, but allowed me to, on a very selective basis, get into the guts for study, and modification. It offered a great install that (mostly) ended up with lots of things "just working" (well, again, mostly). I was rather enthusiastic, and decided to support the Mandrake effort, even through their bankruptcy, by joining Mandrake Club, even though, on review, I didn't make all that much use of it; it's main use was early downloading access of releases via bittorrent.

But, then they got out of bankruptcy and began a transition from a struggling commercial distro into what they hoped would be another Red Hat or Novell. This was signaled to me when their web site was redesigned. They replaced their cluttered but link rich home page with a boringly slick, but sparse front page that immediately sorted out the business from the casual users, each herded down separate, controlled paths to the common functions. For example, sometimes I needed to to go to mdk's development area, the Cooker. This used to have a link from the old page, but, on a few forays onto the new site, I have yet to find a link to it. Fortunately I had saved a link to the cooker page, but someone new to Mandriva would have to do some work to find this link.

Nevertheless, I was invested in the distro and, not having been shut out completely, continued to renew my club membership through 2005, but earlier this year I just let it expire. Firstly it was mostly working for me, and the update service still works for me, so I can keep it patched. Secondly, the rise of Ubuntu provides a distro that appears to be n00bishly comparable to the old Mandrake I started with. I've torrented a recent (6.06.1 desktop) Live CD and only briefly played with it twice, but I'm reluctant to make the switch now since I don't have a spare box nor hard disk space to create a pristine installation and dread the thought of even thinking of trying to "upgrade" over my existing mdk installation.

So, whither Mandriva 2007 for me? Perhaps I'll wait for the general release in a few months and upgrade (if there aren't a slew of issues with doing this, as has happened in the past). On the other hand if I could be convinced that I could, with minimal risk, transition to Ubuntu with my current resources, I think I'd do it with a parting "Thanks Mandrake (sic) we had great times together, but we've grown apart."

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (3, Informative)

opkool (231966) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079983)

As a long time desktop Linux user, I have tried recently Kubuntu, SuSE/Novell SLED and Mandriva, and I still like Mandriva better over the others.

For one, Kubuntu feels so dated and so empty of configuration tools... feels like Mandrake 8.2 all over again.

Then, I like better a 1 year release cycle. I want to WORK with my Linux. I don't want to be installing Linux all the time: is extra work and I'm lazy.

Yes, RHEL/CentOS have a long life. But then RHEL/CentOS for me doens't cut it. up2date/yum are awful, it's a horrible multimedia station and it's a pretty bad desktop overall.

Fedora, well, it's a joke. Not useful as a stable desktop for a lazy Linux user that doesn't want to install a new reease every 3 months and, if you bink too much, your release is out of support.

Sure, SLED is prety good. Mostly. But then I find it to be a slow distro (compared with Ubuntu and Mandriva). And the fact that Novell is more or less trying to ditch KDE is not good for me:

Novell: "KDE is not included in SuSE anymore!"

(Users scream in horror)

Novell: "Well, we'll include KDE"

(Users cheer)

Novell : "Actualy, we'll kinda include it on the OpenSuSE version"

(Users give up German distros and go to get a German beer instead)

Peace

Re:Mandrakes place in the Linux world? (2, Interesting)

Air-conditioned cowh (552882) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080260)

Agree with all that!

Mandriva's control centre is what sets it apart. Most other distros have a similar looking desktop (if they're KDE based), a bunch of apps etc but if the auto-hardware-detect of these distros can't tell what monitor you have then you only get 1024x768 and there is nothing short of editing your xorg.conf file to fix it. And what do you do to get your WLAN card and DVB tuner working?

This is why I settled on PCLinuxOS which is Mandriva based but seems to be more polished and uses Synaptic instead of urpmi.

BTW, what is it with (K)Ubuntu that makes other distros obsolete? I tried it and couldn't really see what it really had going for it compared to PCLinuxOS. Like their website though.

It's still the only distro that does not suck (1)

noddyxoi (1001532) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080108)

I like mandriva because: - lots of packages updated in cooker which has lots of mirrors - it is not biased towards any desktop environment - has zshell well configured that boost productivity in shell, as opposite to ubuntu that seems more of a MS invention to keep people out of their keyboards that are a great power of linux - penguin liberation front - in 2006 release the kernel was compiled by the intel compiler giving the fastest boot time i ever seen on a distro - makes great use of dkms to install kernel modules on boot and the kernel comes with a great configuration, i never needed to compile a kernel since i moved from slackware The only true competition (have enough packages available) are : - suse : they suck in latest software, where are the distros ?!?!? - gentoo : productivity sucks because everything needs to be compiled, no interfaces, PAINFULL !!!! 10 years ago this would be ok, not now. - ?ubuntu : sudo ? sudomania is not for me... typing the password 100 for 100 commands ... is that safe ? just keep asking the sysadmin some commands while you take notes of the password. Despite users not participating much in slashdot it can be seen that the distro is very active from the package contributions and if someday i have to switch to other linux i will be in big trouble because all of them SUCK. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5792753647 750188322&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en [google.com]

It's too hot (5, Funny)

12ahead (586157) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079108)

Man, I ran it on my Macbook Pro and shit it got hot....

Re:It's too hot (2, Insightful)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079126)

The article was just posted... you just made one of the fastest download and installation of a new linux OS on a Macbook Pro and run it long enough to make it hot.

Re:It's too hot (1)

Jello B. (950817) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079261)

Well, the article on the Mandriva blog was posted two days ago. Unless this guy's on a 14.4 modem, I think it's pretty possible. But that's irrelevent. This is the funniest Slashdot comment I've ever read.

Re:It's too hot (1)

70Bang (805280) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079289)


You forgot to point out the problem Macbook Pro seem to have with non-Apple OSes [in general].

That would have been better deserving of the Insightful mod you got.

Both reported this weekend, no less.

First, this [slashdot.org] , and now this.

Wow.

Let's hope all of the standard eBay sales of special software to cool off your PC are redirected to deal with this problem with Macbook Pro until it can be fixed at the root level.

Does anyone know if it gets any better after six weeks of boot camp?


(please tell me I didn't strain too hard for the paranomasia)

Re:It's too hot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079128)

No mod points, but that is funny stuff.

Re:It's too hot (1)

Heir Of The Mess (939658) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079160)

I just laughed my ass off at this. Should be modded up. It helps to show what a stupid article it was about how RC1 of Vista heated up a Mac laptop more than OS X.

Release candidate == final release (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079137)

A 'release candidate' is equivalent to a final release in all respects except name. It is a candidate for release. The development team believes that this build is as bug free and featured filled as it needs to be and is branded a release candidate. It is then sent over to testing (or to users as is more frequently the case) where it undergoes final testing. If it passes final testing, it is rebadged as RTM, but THE SAME BITS GO INTO AN RC AS TO AN RTM. This isn't a testing release or a beta release where you are expected to find and squash bugs. The bugs are expected to be worked out of the system or are so uninteresting as to not warrant further development time.

If you find a serious bug in an RC, someone, somewhere fucked up royally.

Re:Release candidate == final release (0, Troll)

HappyUserPerson (954699) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079217)

Thanks for enlightening us all with your rant. In fact, please send me your resume, so I know to never hire you if I get the chance.

Mandriva (1)

Kangburra (911213) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079153)

By the time their final release is ready we will have Ulteo to play with. http://www.ulteo.com/main/ [ulteo.com]

Crappy video (4, Insightful)

also-rr (980579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079172)

While their video does show (some) of the things that the 3D desktop can do, it's actually *far* smoother in real life. Possibly they recorded it on a machine that was too slow to run the app and xvidcap at the same time.

Up to this point it's been a bit of a pain in the backside to set up but now distros are integrating it the next batch of releases should make it trivial.

Compiz and co are really slick and I find it rather amusing that everyeone *except* the world's biggest software company has managed to get their next generation desktop released prior to 2007.

Re:Crappy video (1)

MBC1977 (978793) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079212)

"I find it rather amusing that everyeone *except* the world's biggest software company has managed to get their next generation desktop released prior to 2007" Hmmm... well lets see, is the world's biggest software company trying to target as many users as possible (considering they are the "world's biggest"
[your words not mine])? I would guess it just might take a while. Wouldn't want to rush anything out the door, ya know.

I find it amusing that the final release isn't out yet and so many people are downing it. I'll wait and use it before I judge, ya know -- keep an OPEN mind.

Regards,

MBC1977,
(US Marine, College Student, and Good Guy!)

Re:Crappy video (2, Insightful)

howlingmadhowie (943150) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079272)

you know, microsoft is targeting people, just as apple is. these are both companies that see a financial benefit from selling their products.
linux isn't targeting users to the same extent, linux is about making the best possible operating system. and for this reason, linux is steam-rolling a path through the competition. we have a situation now, where a shoe-string project started in the early nineties is technically light-years ahead of anything else.
i imagine in the future our idea of the relationship between application software, operating system, and hardware will change.
i read reviews of vista where people complain because the return button looks different to the forward button, and that this will somehow hurt the sales of the product. if windows was written in a modular manner, the answer would be simple: just install a new window manager. (don't like konqueror? use nautilus (or hack konqueror)).
i am of course being one sided here. the distribution manufacturers do have an interest in market share for recognised standards, if not for their software per se. it only makes sense to an artist to let a superior language evolve if the rest of the world speaks a different language and refuses to tell you what it means. but i digress.
the basic point is, if you don't regard linux as being fundamentally different from a company, you're missing the point entirely.
howie

Re:Crappy video (1)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079293)

Tell that to the users of Xandros; there is no OCE with version 4 and it features full-fledged product activation, ala Windows XP. I kinda feel like you're right about a lot of distros, but not with a few others. Many have a "deluxe" or "professional" version for sale and claim that they charge for it to cover their costs, but then they keep jacking up their prices -- like the Mandrake community, memebership in which costed more on a yearly basis than Lindows CNR (which went down in price and is now free). I guess you find out which is which after you've been around a couple of years. Weird, just a few months ago I would've recommended Xandros OCE over Linspire to newbies, now I've completely switched around.

Sorry for the rambling post. I should be in bed.

US$20 for the modem driver first please (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079183)

I would like to see how far Linux has come since Redhat 5.x (my last test-run) but I see that to use my dial-up modem beyond 16k I first need to get the US$20 driver for my chipset. The instructions to get it working are unnerving for a soft, indulged, undisciplined XP user like me. Thanks but no thanks.

Re:US$20 for the modem driver first please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079328)

Yes, the linuxant modem drivers are really pain in the ass that would be nice to be solved with free drivers.
This is btw, not Mandriva specific problem, so it would be nice if all distros could make some kind of co-operation to
fund free modem drivers togetger.

Re:US$20 for the modem driver first please (2, Informative)

Shawn is an Asshole (845769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080014)

If you're still stuck with dialup (which I unfortunatley am in this damn area), buy a 3com 5610. It's a full hardware modem and works out of the box and every distro I've tried. It's a bit of a bitch to get working on Windows, though (2000 at least).

Spend US$20 on a real modem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16080090)

Why don't you spend the US$20 on a real modem that doesn't tie you to a single platform? You'll likely get better performance too.

If you bought $HARDWARE that only works in Windows, the manufacturer won't release drivers for any other OS and won't release information needed to build a driver except under per-user license fee, don't try to blame Linux because there is no free driver. Purchasing decisions such as yours led to this problem in the first place.

If you're going to stick with Windows, can you at least try to avoid buying Windows-only hardware in the future?

13 versions of live cd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079221)

I love how there are thirteen different versions and it tells you nothing about the differences except languages and whether it has non free software. I dont care a whit for software ideals. If your software isnt going to work because you are unable or unwilling to include drivers for common graphics cards then I won't be able to try it.

Re:13 versions of live cd (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079659)

windows XP also doesn't come with ati or nvidia drivers... it uses a vesa driver by default, too

this whole graphics-card driver disaster is not mandrivas fault by the way... the thing is that ati and nvidia don't allow linux distros to include the binary drivers - they don't even allow them to include self-written open drivers...

anyhow, to get nvidia drivers running in mandriva, do this:
download the driver (i'll assume it's in root's home directory)
in a shell: urpmi kernel-source
init 3
(you are now in text mode)
login as root
cd ~
sh NVIDIA[tab-key to complete the filename of the driver installer]

follow the instructions of the installer

Re:13 versions of live cd (1)

gnufied (942531) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079671)

I think its more of the other way round...no free Linux distro would include those drivers by choice.

Re:13 versions of live cd (1)

Shawn is an Asshole (845769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080024)

Ubuntu includes Nvidia's (it's in linux-restricted-modules).

Re:13 versions of live cd (1)

W2k (540424) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079877)

windows XP also doesn't come with ati or nvidia drivers... it uses a vesa driver by default, too

Um, I call BS. I installed a Windows XP system from scratch as late as yesterday (from an original retail disc with SP2 slipstream'd) and it gave me proper nVidia drivers. Old ones, mind you, but the chipset had gone out of production and I couldn't find any newer drivers from nVidia's site. The ones included in Windows supported everything essential, though.

Re:13 versions of live cd (2, Informative)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080213)

The problems with graphics card drivers are not unique to Mandriva.

Graphics card manufacturers are blatantly flouting the law which says that a person is privy to every secret embodied in every article they rightfully own, by simple virtue of the fact of ownership, even if that article be a graphics card and the secret be how to program it. Both ATI and nVidia licence their drivers on egregious and legally unenforcible terms which ride roughshod over the user's common law property rights. They get away with this by having the upper hand to begin with.

Neither ATI nor nVidia are willing to comply with the law by releasing the necessary details that would allow the creation of Free drivers for their cards, for fear that this might help their competitors; despite each spending vast amounts of their R&D budget on deconstructing competitors' products {most of the rest is spent bribing games publishers to make their games run slower on certain setups; ATI will pay good money to any software company to write a game which runs half a frame per century slower on an nVidia display, and vice versa}.

The GPL quite sensibly forbids the linking of non-Free code with the Linux kernel. Everyone must be free to work on the Linux kernel and everything which links to it, otherwise the authors of the non-Free parts would have an unfair advantage over tha authors of the Free parts.

As a half-arsed compromise gesture, ATI and nVidia have created free wrappers that interface between the Linux kernel and the Windows driver for the graphics card. You have to compile the wrapper against the kernel, and the resulting binary is considered to be a derivative work of the kernel source. Now the kernel is under GPL, which does not permit such a derivative work to be made. The only thing allowing it is the Fair Use / Fair Dealing provision of Copyright law. Basically, it's OK to make a copy or derived work if it's an unavoidable, necessary step in doing something else you already have permission to do: for example, the copy of part of an audio CD that exists in the buffer memory of a portable CD player with anti-shock is fair use, since otherwise you would not be allowed to listen to your own CD. The derivative work you make based on Linux is fair use, to the extent that it is being used with a graphics card that you rightfully own. However, distributing it doesn't qualify as fair use, because that isn't an unavoidable step: the recipient could obtain all the parts and build it themself.

This means that you can't distribute a Linux kernel compiled with the ATI or nVidia drivers. You probably could distribute a kernel with one or the other wrapper and no binary driver module, relying on the user to download it. However, this would crash straight away due to the absence of the important bit. And ATI and nVidia have also seen to it that you can't expect for a kernel compiled with more than one option {Free VESA driver, nVidia non-Free driver, ATI non-Free driver} to work.

You may not care a whit for software ideals, but do you care about not getting shafted up the arse by hardware vendors' illegal practices?

Re:13 versions of live cd (1)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080528)

The GPL quite sensibly forbids the linking of non-Free code with the Linux kernel. Everyone must be free to work on the Linux kernel and everything which links to it, otherwise the authors of the non-Free parts would have an unfair advantage over tha authors of the Free parts.


Thanks to companies like nVidia, it's a darn good thing that this statement isn't true. I could write something capable of working with the Linux kernel, distribute it as closed source, and not make it GPL.

I wouldn't be able to actually distribute it with the Linux kernel, so it wouldn't actually work by itself - it'd be a DIY type project...but I could do it.

This is the biggest reason I use Gentoo. Forget ricing/compiling for speed/compiling for pride. It saves time if you're one of those people who ends up with a lot of these things.
Most of the "you have to build this yourself" work is just downloading the package. Gentoo can do the building for me, integrate it in a package management system, and handle any patches/intricacies that I'd rather not bother with.

Even if nobody else has done this, it's generally not bad to write a build myself (by comparison to writing my own RPM).

Of course, for a lot of programs, you really don't need recompilation. Its only to get around things like the GPL, or because the authors haven't yet made a distro for your thing.

I'm thinking someone needs to make a decent Gentoo hybrid that combines binary and non-binary package management into one so that you get the advantage of quick installs when you can while getting automated building when you can't.

Not to troll but (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079280)

the difference is obvious. people say that they are innovating with the 3d desktop thingy, etc, and that MS Windows are now obsolete. Well, the difference is that if some Linux distro does this (or, hell, even Apple), then it's innovation and cool and they are pushing bondaires and blah blah, but think once what if Vista does include a 3d desktop: people would cry that it's bloat, that this is not an useful feature and that they do that 'cause they cannothave fresh useful ideas. oh and they should concentrate fixing bugs instead :-)

come on (0, Flamebait)

ImTheDarkcyde (759406) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079287)

This has to be the worst way to release an iso ever, the downloads page has everything you need.. EXCEPT for the download link. So does anyone have a torrent to the install dvd?

Re:come on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079437)

Well, I hope that you somehow mystically manage to resolve this tricky question you have. Let the power be with you :-)

Mona? (3, Funny)

giano (1001702) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079325)

Mona means "c**t" (female reproductive organ) in an italian dialect...

Re:Mona? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079365)

Does that mean :
a. It makes a certain painting to mean "Lisas cunt"?
b. Downloads of the new Mandriva will be extremely high amongst italian geeks?

Re:Mona? (1)

giano (1001702) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079506)

Yes, in venice there is a word game about it

Re:Mona? (2, Insightful)

AxminsterLeuven (963108) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079398)

I have a theory that every word in any language refers to some part of the human reproductive system in some other language. This of course works the other way around as well: 'cunt' probably means distribution in some language or other, so that's okay.

Re:Mona? (1)

Nuffsaid (855987) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079690)

Mona means "c**t" (female reproductive organ) in an italian dialect...
I know, I'm from Venice. We don't giggle when the word comes up in other languages or in a Renaissance context, because we know it's a medieval contraction of the word "madonna", itself coming from the Latin "mea domina".

What would make me laugh would be the face of Miguel De Icaza discovering that in some other language "Mono" means "male reproductive organ".

Re:Mona? (1)

giano (1001702) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079710)

:) nice

Re:Mona? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16079885)

CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT!

You don't have to censor yourself on Slashdot. It only makes you look stupid. If you don't like a particular word, find another one you like that has the same meaning.

Still a good distro (0, Troll)

FoxAche (875082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079819)

I've been running Mandriva/Mandrake off and on since 7.0 It's now my OS of choice since the 2005 LE release. The reason I like Mandriva so much is that it is based on Red Hat which a lot of workplaces use as their server OS. This means the enviroment I use at home is similar to what I use at work, I need my /etc/sysconfig/. Ubuntu feels foreign to me as I just don't like the way things are set up and it' s only on one CD so you need a net connection when you want more software, the foreign feeling also goes for SuSe (YAST is terrible). So why don't I run Fedora? Well I find that in terms of configuration tools and package management (urpmi) Mandriva is better suited for the home Desktop than Fedora is. I run Fedora 3 on my testbed system, a minimal install without an X server.

Re:Still a good distro (1)

decadre (980513) | more than 7 years ago | (#16079848)

Actually, you can get the Ubuntu DVD.. Then you dont need an internet connection.

Re:Still a good distro (1)

Linegod (9952) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080158)

Ah yes, because if Ubuntu has a DVD download, only Ubuntu has a DVD download. This is number two on my list of annoying this Ubuntu users do. The other is the happy land of the average Ubuntu user - where replacing the word 'Linux' with 'Ubuntu' in any post gets you a quicker path to OT III.

Err, what the hell? (1)

decadre (980513) | more than 7 years ago | (#16080710)

From the parent: "Ubuntu feels foreign to me as I just don't like the way things are set up and it' s only on one CD so you need a net connection when you want more software"

All I said was that Ubuntu has a DVD download, meaning that you don't need an internet connection when you want to get more software, I *never* said that other distros don't have a DVD download... Where on earth did you get that from?? All I was doing was informing him/her that a lack of internet connection on an Ubuntu box isn't a problem

Honestly you sound like you have a real problem with Ubuntu users. Why? Ubuntu is nice for those of us who want simplicity (I am not saying other distros don't offer this, Ubuntu is just one of those that does).

The Linux = Ubuntu thing? It just happens, the amount of times I have heard "I am using Linux 3" when they are refering to Fedora Core 3 or such...
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