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Vista to Create 50,000 Jobs in Europe

CowboyNeal posted about 8 years ago | from the working-for-the-man dept.

270

prostoalex writes "A Microsoft-sponsored study found that Vista will be a boon to European economy, as it 'will create more than 50,000 technology jobs in six large European countries and will lead to a flood of economic benefits for companies there,' News.com reports. Europe will see a total of 1.2 mln paychecks thanks to the new operating system: 'In the six countries studied, more than 150,000 IT companies will produce, sell or distribute products or services running on Windows Vista in 2007 and will employ 400,000 people, IDC said. Another 650,000 will be employed in the IT departments of businesses that rely on Vista.'"

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Well, in that case (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112182)

Business will not be "upgrading" if it requires even more staff to admin Vista!

This is great (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112188)

Gives a whole new meaning to the "Broken Windows" fallacy of economics.

Re:This is great (3, Insightful)

d3matt (864260) | about 8 years ago | (#16112216)

You sir, beat me to that punchline... Why the A/C?

Re:This is great (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112278)

In case folks don't see why this is funny:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken _window/ [wikipedia.org]

Mod Parent Up Informative (3, Informative)

carpeweb (949895) | about 8 years ago | (#16112421)

The / at the end of your link makes it broken, at least in my browser. I removed the / and found the article. Worth the effort; thanks!

Re:This is great (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112346)

I wonder who did that study and how much up-to date information about europe those researches have... because lets face it - there is no such thing as paychecks in europe. Even the youngest EU countries have dropped these years ago.

C'mon m$, we not USA, we more modern you think. We have them fancy computers and electricity.

Re:This is great (2, Interesting)

kfg (145172) | about 8 years ago | (#16112378)

Gives a whole new meaning to the "Broken Windows" fallacy of economics.

It's hardly new. 90% of the "economic boom" of the modern computer industry has been due to the Broken Windows Fallacy for the past decade or so. Mere money is being passed around like crazy, spent on little more than flushing wealth down the toilet, not to mention far too much of my irreplacable time, which I could better spend than fixing stuff that needn't be broken in the first place.

KFG

Re:This is great (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112393)

It's hardly new. 90% of the "economic boom" of the modern computer industry has been due to the Broken Windows Fallacy for the past decade or so.

This is true. I was just amused by the thought of Microsoft using the Broken Windows Fallacy in relation to a new release of uh... Windows. We can update the parable for the modern age, instead of the boy breaking windows and the glazier getting more work it becomes Microsoft releasing a broken version of Windows and everyone having to do more work.

That's like saying... (5, Insightful)

Saven Marek (739395) | about 8 years ago | (#16112190)

A Microsoft-sponsored study found that Vista will be a boon to European economy, as it 'will create more than 50,000 technology jobs in six large European countries and will lead to a flood of economic benefits for companies there

That's like saying hurricane Katrina was a boon to the New Orleans economy, as it instantly created thousands of search & rescue, demolition, rebuilding and emergency management jobs.

You can spin anything any way you like.

Re:That's like saying... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112266)

I wonder what those 50000 are doing at the moment? Wandering the fields, looking at trees? Maybe, just _maybe_ they're supporting XP? Well, in that case, I say that 50000 jobs will be lost when Microsoft ships Vista, because of the decreased need for XP support.

Re:That's like saying... (0, Redundant)

mike2R (721965) | about 8 years ago | (#16112276)

Or if I go round chucking stones through people's (house) windows, I benefit the economy by providing employment to glaziers.

Funny to see Vista pumped with the broken Windows fallacy..

Re:That's like saying... (1)

Invisible Snake (681761) | about 8 years ago | (#16112292)

Is vista that bad that youneed so many extra people to get it working wel?

that's economics for you (4, Informative)

oohshiny (998054) | about 8 years ago | (#16112312)

Sadly, that's how economist think and work. The Exxon Valdez disaster, for example, was a boon to the US economy according to standard models of economics, because it created lots of jobs.

The reason for such silly conclusions is that large, unquantifiable costs are ignored. In the case of Vista, it will probably create lots of jobs (because it will be a lot of work to install and maintain), but those jobs will not be productive jobs--they don't contribute to what the companies using Vista actually are supposed to do.

In different words, a company producing widgets will still be producing widgets pretty much the same way after Vista has been installed, they'll just have sunk a boatload of money into migrating, retraining, licensing, and hardware upgrades. Furthermore, the computer specialists doing all that work are kept from doing something actually productive. As a result, the cost of widgets has gone up and the economy is worse off overall.

Re:that's economics for you (4, Insightful)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 8 years ago | (#16112374)

They are an orginisation attempting to make money with content including copyrighted material, which the copyright holders are legally entitled to recompense. But their business model is more like the modern day equivalent of a tv station, so they should be paying in a similar way to how tv stations pay for their use of copyrighted material.

I think you've confused marketeers with economists. Economists (at least the smart ones) ask a fundemnetal question:

This activity occurs at the expense of what?

Evert transaction occurs at the expense of another - if I buy a sweater then I don't buy a TV. You can't just look at any one action but need to look at the impact of that action.

Politicians and marketeers trumpet job creation - those pork barrel projects - they create jobs and pump taxes back into the economy (which I will use to buy more votes) - forget what the original taxpayer might have done with the nmoney had we not taken it in taxes; spent some percent running the government (a deadweight load of sorts) and actually put less back in then we took out.

If Vista makes companies more productive then they can create more jobs - if not then teh net effect is zero (or less because of switching costs)

Re:that's economics for you (2, Insightful)

carpeweb (949895) | about 8 years ago | (#16112477)

If Vista makes companies more productive then they can create more jobs

I was going to take it a step further: shouldn't the more productive companies be able to cut jobs because they can produce the same output with fewer people? (Yeah, ok, I know this is a stretch for something like Vista, but it was someone else's fantasy to start ...) That kind of job-cutting could fit in the Creative Destruction model of economics, which is a bit different from the parable of the broken window, I think.

Still, I'm sure M$ would not have paid for a study that produced the headline "Vista to Cost 50,000 Jobs in Yerp".

Re:that's economics for you (1)

nschubach (922175) | about 8 years ago | (#16112483)

"If Vista makes companies more productive then they can create more jobs - if not then teh net effect is zero (or less because of switching costs)"
I don't buy that comment at all. It's like the grandparent post stated. The company will continue to make whatever it is they make and most likely, nothing will change. Businesses today are basically forced by a heavy hand to upgrade the OS on everyone's machines. Does Linux/Unix or Windows (NT, 98, or even 3.1) still do word processing, control production lines, air and ventilation controls and what ever else the control programs running on them needed to do when they were designed? Yes. The only reason companies upgrade is the thought that they might not have support for those outdated systems, but in practice, the system has probably run flawlessly for years without a major problem. The company will go out, purchase new hardware, and a new OS and the systems in place will still run just as they did the day before. Except now, you have a fancier looking interface.

The other reason I don't buy your comment is the opposite reasoning. If a company can get one person more efficient at cranking out documents, they aren't going to hire anyone new. They will let attrition remove those that they no longer need and shift the work load to the more efficient worker. A new OS isn't going to do that though. Training and productivity software will. Since Microsoft has their hands in that realm, they can basically say, "This new version of Office will make your workers 5% more efficient, but unfortunately, the installer won't allow you to put it on our old OS. Here's a shiny new one. By the way, that will be $___ please."

Re:that's economics for you (1)

jank1887 (815982) | about 8 years ago | (#16112435)

but don't be silly. If True Cost was factored into everything, we'd be paying $6/gallon for gasoline in the US. (Some say $13, i think it depends on how you allocate defense expenditures.) We can't have that, this is America dammit! True Cost Economics [adbusters.org]

On the other hand, if you also calculate my ecological footprint, if everyone lived like me, we'd need four planets to support us all [earthday.net] . Good thing everyone doesn't live like me. It's good to be on top.

Re:That's like saying... (3, Insightful)

Pflipp (130638) | about 8 years ago | (#16112357)

Only goes to show that "economy" as an indicator of public benefit has had its best years...

Re:That's like saying... (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 8 years ago | (#16112384)

It's all about partial truth. The 50k increase in jobs is one thing; the 75k loss is another exercise with which we need not nag the reader.

Re:That's like saying... (1)

hodet (620484) | about 8 years ago | (#16112432)

Actually economists do this all the time. Natural disasters (man made ones too for that matter) stimulate GDP growth. Whether the cause was positive or negative is usually overlooked. I once recall an Finance professor in University stating that what this economy needs is a good war. His tongue was firmly planted in his cheek but the point was made.

On the downside ... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112191)

Vista to destroy 50,000 jobs in Europe

Due to the cessation of Windows XP, hordes of people employed to manage, fix and repair systems based around Windows XP will lose their jobs.

Luckily they are mostly expected to get jobs managing, fixing and repairing Windows Vista systems.

Thats it? (5, Funny)

Lordpidey (942444) | about 8 years ago | (#16112194)

It's a Microsoft sponsored study, I'm suprised that they didn't say it would create 20 billion new jobs, cure aids, end world hunger, capture osama bin laden, find WMD in Iraq and still be simple enough for someone as stupid as Bush to use (ok, that last one might be stretching it)

Re:Thats it? (1)

Jboost (960475) | about 8 years ago | (#16112262)

I'm sure they meant create 50.000 tech support jobs.

Re:Thats it? (2, Insightful)

samurphy21 (193736) | about 8 years ago | (#16112351)

If that were the case, it would be a boon to India's economy, not Europe's.

Political weasels. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112376)

It's a Microsoft sponsored study, I'm suprised that they didn't say it would create 20 billion new jobs, cure aids, end world hunger, capture osama bin laden, find WMD in Iraq and still be simple enough for someone as stupid as Bush to use (ok, that last one might be stretching it)

Discarding the sarcasm and addressing the core of your statement.... Microsoft simply did what every sane corporation would have done. They hired people who know how to whore for support from European politicians and one of the magic phrases in that competition is 'Creating high tech jobs in marginal constituencies'. One is simply left hoping that European politicians won't prostitute them selves as easily to Microsoft as they did when Lockheed bribed them to buy a study in military aviation mediocrity called the F-104 Starfighter which incidentally killed a string of pilots, not that that seemed to matter to any of the people involved. Now before you flame me for accusing Microsoft of being out to kill people with Windows Vista, I'm not, they are just out to make a buck by screwing the consumer with their monopoly. I took the Starfighter example to demonstrate how devoid of moral fiber European political weasels can be, not to flame Microsoft.

Re:Political weasels. (1)

carpeweb (949895) | about 8 years ago | (#16112523)

... and how are European political weasels distinct from North American, African, Asian and other political weasels?

Re:Thats it? (1)

uradu (10768) | about 8 years ago | (#16112413)

Actually, they got the number wrong. It's supposed to be 88,ooo million billion jobs a year in the Greater London area alone.

in other news... (4, Insightful)

192939495969798999 (58312) | about 8 years ago | (#16112198)

Microsoft placates to populous to try to pressure EU to stop suing them for monopolistic practices. Could this read any more like a spin piece to deflect from the EU lawsuit stuff?

Re:in other news... (1)

boethius78 (1002975) | about 8 years ago | (#16112325)

IRA sponsored study shows thousands of jobs created for soldiers, policemen, medics, builders and arms dealers since 1969.

Re:in other news... (1)

knutzipferdchen (892281) | about 8 years ago | (#16112399)

Yes, what a coincidence that we see this study now, right before the (forbidden) launch of Vista and the end of the lawsuit.

I also wonder whether the claim is true. The money for updating or migrating to MS Windows will have to be earned by the companties before being spent and it goes to Microsoft in the first place. However, spending it on research, education or migration to Linux would probably lead to a larger return on investment. Or in other words: Can you really tell to which kinds of additional profits the update to Vista will lead?

But how does announcing this help their business? (5, Insightful)

hakubi (666291) | about 8 years ago | (#16112200)

Or is it just an attempt to derail any European plans to charge them with more anti-trust violations since MS is helping their economy? I just don't see the point here.

Re:But how does announcing this help their busines (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112309)

It's simply to facilitate "broken windows" fallacy jokes on a massive scale. Seriously, that's pretty much what this is. Yes, it might increase employment at some level, having to deal with the annoyances of windows vista. But so does me running round and smashing things. It's NOT desirable though.

Re:But how does announcing this help their busines (1)

Jessta (666101) | about 8 years ago | (#16112505)

Microsoft was threating to not ship Vista to europe if the EU didn't change policies to allow microsoft to continue to abuse their monopoly without issue.

Why should the EU care about not Vista not being shipped to them?
Apparent, because they will miss out on the possible 50,000 jobs it would create.
So the EU better hop to it and bend over for microsoft.

- Jesse McNelis

Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112202)

And that's not even counting all the people who will be working full-time to help homes and businesses cope with all of the problems and innefficiencies! And what about all the bankruptcy lawyers who will be helping people cope with the enormous cost of this needless upgrade?!

catch22 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112203)

Yeah, so either way we look at this, either as said above businesses will not upgrade cos it will require these huge projected "extra" staff to accomodate, or if they can get by with existing staffing levels then there won't actually be any new jobs created by Vista... which is it?

Too complicated (4, Insightful)

fractalus (322043) | about 8 years ago | (#16112205)

Businesses are already overwhelmed by the costs of administering Windows, and the sad thing is, Microsoft makes Windows admins re-learn everything every few years because they change the One True Way to manage a network. They say they're trying to make things better, but it's the same problem with developing for MS platforms: everything changes every few years.

Vista is so complex that it's going to be a nightmare to try to get a handle on it. These new jobs are glaziers making glass for windows broken by boys throwing rocks. False industry, and a burden on resources. These people could be doing something productive but instead they'll be put to work holding Vista together.

Re:Too complicated (1)

jimicus (737525) | about 8 years ago | (#16112426)

These new jobs are glaziers making glass for windows broken by boys throwing rocks

IIRC, that analogy generally works best if it's the glaziers throwing rocks ;)

Obviously bollocks (4, Insightful)

Proud like a god (656928) | about 8 years ago | (#16112207)

Clearly these "companies [that] will produce, sell or distribute products or services running on Windows Vista" are ones that would have been doing the same with XP.

Same goes for those that "will be employed in the IT departments of businesses that rely on Vista." Because previously they were using XP.

Vista brings nothing to Europe, but this is just about the EU actually making a stand against Microsoft's illegal actions.

Re:Obviously bollocks (5, Insightful)

nwbvt (768631) | about 8 years ago | (#16112253)

Not necessarily. If it is harder to develop applications for or maintain Vista than XP, then jobs will be created. Of course, generally you want your new product to increase worker efficiency, not decrease it...

Re:Obviously bollocks (1)

Proud like a god (656928) | about 8 years ago | (#16112286)

Exactly. As already stated all over these comments, making more tech support jobs is going to take people who were already doing other things and tie them up with fixing Microsoft's problems instead of doing something more beneficial to the economy.

Re: Harder to Develop for Vista (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | about 8 years ago | (#16112434)

This looks to me like tying straws to the camel's legs so it won't break its back.

If it's going to be harder to develop for Vista than XP, will this finally be "enough is enough", to produce a critical mass surge to tip OSS over the top?

(Apple doesn't count. Replacing one lock-in vendor with another is silly.)

The preview word is Offenses. Has Microsoft committed enough?

Re:Obviously bollocks (1)

davros-too (987732) | about 8 years ago | (#16112516)

From TFA:
A key finding is that Vista will not just sustain the existing Windows economy, but create thousands of new jobs. Using a baseline for economic growth due to existing versions of Windows, the research firm determined that Windows-related employment would jump by 100,000 jobs next year.

However, we don't see any justification for this assertion. I am skeptical, not least because I expect Vista will take some time to displace XP.

One thing that will cause a fair bit of additional work is making existing windows apps run under Vista. However, this work is already going on. And in practice the work is done at the cost of those staff doing other things such as developing new features. That is, in effect the short term effect of Vista's introduction is to reduce the pace of development.

Re:Obviously bollocks (1)

Bemopolis (698691) | about 8 years ago | (#16112381)

Your understanding of economics is just as bad as the authors of the linked article. I mean really, think about it: there's no way that a European mass exodus to Linux is going to produce 50,000 jobs. 49,500, tops.

THINK DAMMITT!

Bemopolis

There is a shortage already (1)

mattcasters (67972) | about 8 years ago | (#16112209)

There is already a shortage of capable ICT personel in Europe.

Oh wait...

Broken window falacy of economic activity (5, Insightful)

Realistic_Dragon (655151) | about 8 years ago | (#16112211)

Having 650,000 people chasing around doing things that do not need to be done is *not* good for the economy unless the end result is that production is greater (over the whole economy) than the gain that could be made of the alternative use of their time.

Now while I could probably be convinced that Windows Vista has _some_ productivity benefits over current systems I doubt it's really that large. In many cases the net contribution of these 650k people is going to be in fact negative as their disruption and need to prove their own continued usefullness actually decreases productivity of society as a whole - fixing things that aren't broken for example.

Re:Broken window falacy of economic activity (1)

Don Giovanni (300778) | about 8 years ago | (#16112326)

I know, just think of the productivity gained by the _users_ if winfs came with it. Windows users would finally know the crashing filesystem security that beos has had since 1996!



Frontline plus [medi-vet.com]

Re:Broken window falacy of economic activity (1)

tgv (254536) | about 8 years ago | (#16112331)

Since it will only cost money to deploy Vista, it will take away investments from production. So the export will drop. That's not good. Unless Microsoft offers to pay these 650000 people, of course.

Re:Broken window falacy of economic activity (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 8 years ago | (#16112368)

Having 650,000 people chasing around doing things that do not need to be done is *not* good for the economy

I don't know, all those project managers spend their salaries, helping to keep the economy afloat... :-)

this sounds like a driver problem... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112214)

Did you reboot the machine?

Well, maybe you need to reinstall the OS.

EU (1)

owlman17 (871857) | about 8 years ago | (#16112218)

And here I thought that more and more countries in the EU are going Linux and FOSS. I do assume, if the study is true, that European copies of Vista won't be including Windows Media Player.

Re:EU (1)

wild_berry (448019) | about 8 years ago | (#16112270)

I think that the AntiTrust Dept wasnt Microsoft to document their seurity subsystem in a way that it doesn't eliminate the market for anti-viral, spyware and firewall products. It may be that Vista won't be allowed to include MS' Vista Firewall, Windows Defender or OneCare in addition to Windows Media Player.

Re:EU (1)

LeRandy (937290) | about 8 years ago | (#16112542)

At the moment there are two editions of XP, as mandated by the EU - XP (with media player) and XP N (without) (yes I know there's Pro/Home/Media Ctr...)

I suspect the situation that the EU wants is:
- no more than basic firewalling in Vista, unless you buy more
- APIs documented, so other firewall/AV/system maintenance vendors can hook into the necessary parts of the Kernel to do their job as well as microsoft products can
- Not going back to the issue that got them into trouble with Office/Windows, whereby the Office team knew more about the Windows APIs than any other vendor, thereby allowing them short-cuts
- no strong-arming OEMs to not cut a deal with other software vendors, particularly in the Security field, either by
  a. making all other vendor's products de-facto crap by keeping them out of APIs and Kernel hooks that MS OneCare have access to
  b. confusing end-consumers by installing Windows AntiVirus trials/adverts/icons by default, without any way to remove this by an OEM.

The problem with this security area is that currently AntiVirus is the big area where there is still competition for OEMs. You find OEMs including AV from McAfee, Symantec and others, with the standard Windows/Works/Word combo.

Again, I'm not saying this should apply to every OS vendor. Microsoft has been found guilty of using its monopoly in the OS market to gain extra leverage in other software markets. They've been punished for this in the past, so they know the drill, and are only stalling because they want to see how far they can push.

As for the debacle with the "extra [political] delay" in Europe, MS knows the drill and has done for a while, but still they push for leniency from the legislators. What they're upset about is that legislators in the EC won't be drawn into pre-approving any of the bundling MS want to do with Vista. I think they've made it pretty clear by recent judgements - If you have a monopoly - don't close out competition by obfuscation of system protocols or bundling independent products. It's not very hard to extrapolate that reasoning. And they've even offered MS copious amounts of advice over Vista, albeit with the proviso - "This is friendly advice, not legal definitions. We reserve the right to prosecute if you leverage your monopoly again"

Re:EU (2, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | about 8 years ago | (#16112469)

I do assume, if the study is true, that European copies of Vista won't be including Windows Media Player.

You assume wrong.

The Media Player thing didn't result in Microsoft being forced to flog XP without Media Player in the EU. However, they are obliged to make a version without Media Player available. Nobody else, however is obliged to buy it.

OEMs, not much liking the idea of customers complaining that "Joe down the road just bought a new PC from (some other major OEM), and HE got media player!" for the sake of saving approximately zero, have stayed away in droves.

I supsect this is what the "15 different versions of Vista!" is probably about. Not just to fragment the market so people who are prepared to pay more do so, but also so that if they are taken to court again, they can stand up and say "Your honour, in the current version of our operating system thare are various options available with significant variations on what software is bundled. It's hardly our fault if every OEM on the planet is only selling one or two."

Sure it will. (3, Funny)

SharpFang (651121) | about 8 years ago | (#16112219)

Huge boom in independent services of user support, helpdesk, troubleshooting etc. Lots of jobs for getting failed critical systems back online. And a huge boom in disaster recovery sector.

Re:Sure it will. (4, Funny)

trash eighty (457611) | about 8 years ago | (#16112240)

and counselling for IT personnel who have had nervous breakdowns

So much people... (1)

dp_wiz (954921) | about 8 years ago | (#16112228)

In the six countries studied, more than 150,000 IT companies will produce, sell or distribute products or services running on Windows Vista in 2007 and will employ 400,000 people, IDC said. Another 650,000 will be employed in the IT departments of businesses that rely on Vista.
A new baby boom expected in EU with coming of Vista?

They doth protest too much, methinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112229)

It's all bollocks. Those jobs will be people milling round doing "upgrades" and fixing problems instead of doing someting useful. And they don't seem to want to hear about the LOSS to the economy in all that MS tax danegeld leaving the EU economy where it coulf have helped paid for such trivia as hospitals, welfare ec.

Decline? (2, Insightful)

njen (859685) | about 8 years ago | (#16112231)

Does the study state the decline in jobs for XP related positions? I think it evens itself out in the end...

Car Analogy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112235)

Perhaps we should persuade motor manufacturers to make more unreliable cars to increase the employment opportunities for mechanics?

What? (1)

fa2k (881632) | about 8 years ago | (#16112241)

I agree that creating jobs is nice for the economy, but if the goal was creating useless jobs; we might as well go back to sending snail-mail and using typewriters. I can't see that the existing staff couldn't perform the install at a slower pace.

Re:What? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about 8 years ago | (#16112314)

but if the goal was creating useless jobs; we might as well go back to sending snail-mail and using typewriters

      I agree with you. I thought all this modernization and automation stuff was supposed to REDUCE a company's investment in labour, not increase it.

On the other hand ... (3, Insightful)

LaughingCoder (914424) | about 8 years ago | (#16112245)

According to the article, from what I could tell the jobs were all just about upgrading hardware and software. There was no discussion about unique capabilities of Vista spawning whole new industries or applications.

If I were an IT decision-maker in Europe I might read this differently. Hmmm, 50,000 jobs is a lot of Euros. What exactly are we getting for that huge expenditure? Maybe we should think a little more carefully about doing this upgrade and consider the alternatives.

Re:On the other hand ... (1)

oohshiny (998054) | about 8 years ago | (#16112321)

There was no discussion about unique capabilities of Vista spawning whole new industries or applications.

What "unique" capabilities would that be?

Re:On the other hand ... (1)

LaughingCoder (914424) | about 8 years ago | (#16112343)

Exactly. That was my point. One would expect a Microsoft-sponsored study to highlight any new and unique capabilities if they could think of any ;-) Apparently even they are admitting is "just another Windows upgrade".

Losers, Governments and People (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112247)

Wow.

So they're twisting the EU away from fines this way now.

What a bunch of losers.

Of course... (4, Funny)

c0l0 (826165) | about 8 years ago | (#16112248)

...the study did not explicitly mention that about 40.000 of those were actually psychotherapists.

Re:Of course... (1)

IvanD (719006) | about 8 years ago | (#16112339)

I thought it was outsourcing to patch the new OS.

Steve Gibson was right (4, Interesting)

sphealey (2855) | about 8 years ago | (#16112254)

Back around 1992(?) Steve Gibson[1] wrote a column in which he predicted that by the year 2000 50% of the world's population would be employed supporting Windows for the other 50%. At this point I don't think he was far wrong.

sPh

[1] The old SpinRite guy who wrote a lot of good utilities in the DOS era.

Solution? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112257)

Sweet jesus, they're bragging about what a maintenance and support nightmare they're creating?
They probably could fix overpopulation too if they'd ship cyanide capsules with the installation media.

Management will understand that Vista needs (1)

Znort (634569) | about 8 years ago | (#16112271)

- More people
- More machines

to run the same applications. Way to go Microsoft !! Another one like that and organisations will switch to Linux instead of upgrading.

Thank you, really
Znort

Get the facts - new improved (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112273)

This time with actual facts.

  1. Release poorly designed, badly written software that will require additional human resourses to function
     
  2. Attempt to convince EU not to further persue antitrust proceedings by planting PR FUD about the economic damage that could be caused if Microsoft were to comply with the law.
     
  3. ...
     
  4. profit


$$ is a certainty in this case, perhaps we should ask the EU what they would think if we deliberately broke linux to 'create jobs'.

How is that good? (1)

forsetti (158019) | about 8 years ago | (#16112281)

So, running Vista is sooo much harder/more complex/less efficient/ than previous OSs that *more* people need to be hired?!? And that is a good thing how?

Does not sound like great news to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112288)

As an employer, this does not sound like great news to me. Do they mean the EU economy as a whole will need 50,000 new sysadmin jobs just to keep people play Freecell and browse porn sites with Vista? This does not sound like a good reason for Vista adoption.

In other news (1)

The Pro Guy (922383) | about 8 years ago | (#16112291)

"A Lockheed Martin-sponsored study found that war for oil will be a boon to worldwide economy, as it 'will create more than 500.000 technology jobs in some middle-east countries and will lead to a flood of economic benefits for US companies working over there,' FakeNews.com reports. Noone will see a total of 1.2 mln dying civilists thanks to Fox..."

=="Vista to cost European companies $3bn/year" (2, Interesting)

gjuk (940514) | about 8 years ago | (#16112297)

50,000 jobs at, say, $60,000 each = $3bn. That's $3bn on top of license fees. That's $3bn just to do what you can do already. That's not good. Of course, moving to Linux is hardly cheap on support, but there's no license fee. Seems to me that this would be an ideal time to switch (not that big companies will). Still - it's hilarious that papers will carry this sort of PR puffery from Microsoft without question.

TCO? (1)

SirCyn (694031) | about 8 years ago | (#16112300)

How is Microsoft lowering TCO when one small continent will need over half a million more people just to keep Windoz running?
Sounds like one more piece of ammo for Linux, the BSDs, or even Apple.

Re:TCO? (1)

6031769 (829845) | about 8 years ago | (#16112337)

Woah there! Easy with those factors of 10 - you never know when one too many will get you in trouble.

Too bad... (2, Funny)

Firehed (942385) | about 8 years ago | (#16112303)

Unfortunately, each and every one of those 50,000 is a beta tester. Sounds like they won't be selling as many copies as they'd hoped. I wonder how many new "jobs" it'll create worldwide...

How many more jobs would be created if ... (4, Funny)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 8 years ago | (#16112313)

If I am selling software, and my next release is going to require my clients to hire 50,000 more people install and minister it, I would keep it quite confidential.

If this is how one creates jobs, one can create even more jobs if Europe switches to CP/M or IBM 370/155 or Cyber 170 NOS.

Of course, ... (1)

michajoe (124916) | about 8 years ago | (#16112336)

... 49.000 of these jobs will be as MCVR (Microsoft Certified Virus Remover) and MCSC (Microsoft Certified Spyware Cleaner-Upper).

Re:Of course, ... (1)

tddoog (900095) | about 8 years ago | (#16112405)

and the other 1000 will be the people microsof hires to work for the BSA hunting down businesses that use pirated software.

Switching costs? (1)

pesc (147035) | about 8 years ago | (#16112349)

So is this how much it will cost to switch from XP to Vista? Notice how we are not talking about costs to switch now, but how many jobs it will create?

How many jobs will it create to switch to Linux instead of Vista? Is it time to rewrite the TCO studies at the get-the-facts campaign?

News? (1)

xinu (64069) | about 8 years ago | (#16112350)

Population count of europe? 6.5 billion? 50,000 some how doesn't seem like newsworthy stuff.

Re:News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112430)

6.5 billion is the population for the whole planet, brainiac. And politicians love to hold up *anything* that makes jobs as "good".

50 000 new lawyers? (1)

happyrabit (942015) | about 8 years ago | (#16112375)

50 000 new lawyers to sue Microsoft?

In other news... (1)

Squapper (787068) | about 8 years ago | (#16112379)

...Microsoft Support Center hires 50,000 new employees to get ready for the release of Vista.

after reading the article, my question is... (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | about 8 years ago | (#16112386)

Is vista really that hard to admin?

To paraphrase: (1)

tygerstripes (832644) | about 8 years ago | (#16112389)

Vista to Create 50,000 Jobs in Europe (at Symantec).

Assuming, of course, that the EU gets their way [slashdot.org] :-)

Fixed it for ya... (1)

Linker3000 (626634) | about 8 years ago | (#16112391)

"A Microsoft-sponsored study found that Vista will be a boon to European economy, as it 'will create more than 50,000 technology jobs in six large European countries and will lead to a flood of economic benefits for companies there...,"

"A Microsoft-sponsored study found that Vista will be such a pain in the ass to install and support that it 'will create more than 50,000 IT support jobs in six large European countries and will lead to a flood of complaints for companies there..."

I'm amazed at the arrogance of publishing this (1)

Andy_R (114137) | about 8 years ago | (#16112398)

"Microsoft admits Vista is so broken, that another 650,000 people in Europe alone will be needed to keep it running."

Did nobody in Microsoft's PR department see that this is bad news of monstrous proportions? Were they really shouted down by people who think the public is gullible enough to believe the 'broken=good for the economy' spin? At a time when businesses like mine can see no benefit whatsoever to changing to Vista, I'm stunned that they didn't bury this story as deep as they could. There's something seriously wrong with a company that believes it's own hype to this extent.

In other news... (1)

bigattichouse (527527) | about 8 years ago | (#16112403)

Another study showed that getting rid of computers completely would create MILLIONS of jobs for something called "file clerks" and other information workers. Something called "stenaography" would blossom as a new field, and "typists" would be in high demand at EVERY company WORLDWIDE!

So basically it's an economic disaster (4, Insightful)

gelfling (6534) | about 8 years ago | (#16112415)

for the companies that buy it.

Hey thats one way of selling SUNK COST. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112428)

Obviously Microsoft just do not understand SUNK COSTS. Few people do. They think investing zillions into software automagically generates profits.

Thus the new way that companies now profit is....

  - Buy Vista,
  - Increase IT department
  - ...
  - Profit.

err no that doesn't make sense.

This makes as much sense as ...

  - companies burning down buildings and then having construction companies increase staff to build new buildings.
  - injuring staff and then having hospitals increase staff,
  - start frivoulous lawsuits and have lawyers increase staff,

Or more simply...
  - "insert act of stupidity here" and have "profession" in "relevant industry" increased

So in other words, given that they say that 20 percent of all IT employment will be Windows Vista-related in the first 12 months of deployment, this means existing projects would be affected
delaying deployment of actual REVENUE or efficiency software e.g. Sales, automation, stock control etc.

There is a different. Paying Microsoft for Vista is a capital cost and it is a SUNK COST written off quite quickly but the money would always be better spent on durable good like building, vehicles, industrial plant etc or giving it back to the company SHAREHOLDERS or the WORKERS !.

Microsoft are simply frikin bottom line parasites.

More paychecks! (1)

bazorg (911295) | about 8 years ago | (#16112437)

Europe will see a total of 1.2 mln paychecks thanks to the new operating system
Can we have those EUR2.5M per day checks first?

This is a pyramidal scheme scam (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16112473)

Get on board and ALL OF YOU will make money!
It's not true since only the people at the top (or should I say bottom?) will make money, and the huge base will lose all it put in and the majority of the rest will lose more than they gain.
It's also not real since the money people and compagnies will put into vista will come from some other budget, so it means other IT companies and other economical sectors would lose as much as microsoft gain.

Just don't put money into somebody else project until you really need it, and don't give a cent more. Use your money for your own projects: that is inovation.

Microsoft-sponsored study (1)

thorkyl (739500) | about 8 years ago | (#16112480)

Thats like the car dealer investigating if thier car caused the crash.

Another study reports (1)

refriedchicken (961967) | about 8 years ago | (#16112512)

50K new jobs created by Vista launching in Europe, jobs to include lawyers, judges and clerks (all involved in suing MS for not complying with EU mandates against monopolies).

50000... (1)

AntiChris (778842) | about 8 years ago | (#16112524)

Microsoft to help create 50,000 positions for lawyers in the EU to sue them for Anti-Trust practices.

Terminology. (1)

CrazyBusError (530694) | about 8 years ago | (#16112540)

It appears that being a script kiddie or virus writer now constitutes working in a 'technology job'. Who'd have thought it?

Jobs and economy boost for pub owners! (1)

Snarfiorix (1001357) | about 8 years ago | (#16112544)

It will be the same people who will do the support, they basically get re-trained. With all that need of training coming up you may see a shift from technical support to trainers (after they get their training).

I just happen to be one of the lucky few at my job that gets to go on a 4 weeks exposure to Vista. So some airline is getting a few more seats sold, some hotel owner gets to rent out a room and quiet a few bars and restaurants my expect me frequenting there for 4 weeks. But during those 4 weeks I am pretty sure that my local pub is going to miss out some income (I don't have a drinking problem, I support Microsoft products), but that will probably be compensated by my team that has to miss out on their Technical coach for 4 weeks and by day 2 they will be in the pub making the owner a nice increase of revenue (they don't have a drinking problem, they support Microsoft Products and they have to do it without their coach)

Then, after my return I need to re-deliver the training which will leave me off the floor for another 8 weeks to get everybody trained. By that time the pub owner is exstatic as there will be only half of the engineers available to take on support cases while the other half is in training. Then our customers start frequenting their local pubs more often becuase it will take twice as much time for us to get back to them. The pub owners counts the cash and sees his establishment filling to the brim and that is where the jobs come from, because he will need more staff to poor the drinks (keep them coming, we now support Vista as well)

Because the drop of customer satisfaction due of having only half of the engineers available, the managers are going to be spotted in the pub as well. The pub owner thinks he died and went to heaven.

Shortly after that we will see a revenue increase in detox clinics and treatment of liver cirrhoses. (the clinic is run by the pub owners brother)

So if you are looking to profit from the introduction of Vista, just open a pub realy close to a technical support center and you will be raking in the millions. If you are not the "run your own bussiness" type and looking for a job, it will be in bartending where you can make a career!
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