Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

An Interview with a Cheater

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the live-and-learn dept.

371

Dan writes to mention a post at the Aeropause site. Author Richard was recently given the rare opportunity to interview a cheater, shining a light into the dark recesses of a conflicted mind. The article explores why the cheater cheats, and the great excuses they use to be able to look themselves in the mirror. From the article: "Aeropause: What made you decide to mod your Xbox to gain an unfair advantage in games like Halo 2? Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

cancel ×

371 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Islamic Clerics declare Fatwa against BLOCKQUOTE (0, Troll)

ringbarer (545020) | about 8 years ago | (#16130810)


MUDRAGISTAN (Reuters) - Islamic Clerics announced today that due to the incapacity of the islamic mind to understand the difference between an opinion and a quotation, henceforth all use of the BLOCKQUOTE tag in HTML shall be met with unyielding and divine retribution.

The BLOCKQUOTE tag, as introduced with the HTML 2.0 specification in 1994, has been used on websites throughout the world to signify that the text contained within is a quotation from an external source. However, due to an inability for islamics to grow the fuck up and understand basic communicative syntax, they now believe it is their holy right to murder anyone they want to just because one person quoted someone else within context.

This antithesis of freedom is a common theme running throughout all islamic interaction with civilised society. Rampaging islamic mobs worldwide have burned effigies of Dave Raggett, creator of HTML, alongside effigies of President Bush and Pope Benedict XVI. Police measures are now in place to put everyone who ever had a Myspace page or Geocities account into hiding.

Inventor of the World Wide Web, Tim Berners-Lee, was unavailable for comment. Which is probably just as well as we don't want to get bombed by the raghead fuckwits just for quoting him.

Re:Islamic Clerics declare Fatwa against BLOCKQUOT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131402)

it's funny because it's true

Re:Islamic Clerics declare Fatwa against BLOCKQUOT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131549)

I didn't say that

underlying theme (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131628)

It really is funny. Islamic people believe they are allowed to say/do bad things to non-Islamic people because basically their 'Holy Book' actually states that if you fon't follow Islam then you are not deemed worthy of life.

So they think they can do/get away with anything, and we put up with it - we tolerate it. But as soon as someone does ANYTHING against them they go completely insane!

Just stupid. Plain stupid. Good thing I don't believe in God...

Hardly surprising, from a Welshman (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130820)

The Welsh character is an interesting study. The ignorant speak of them as Celts, which is of course wholly erroneous. They are of pure Iberian stock--the aboriginal inhabitants of Europe who survive only in Portugal and the Basque district. Celts readily intermarry with their neighbors and absorb them. From the earliest times the Welsh have been looked upon as an unclean people. It is thus that they have preserved their racial integrity. Their sons and daughters rarely mate with humankind except their own blood relations. In Wales there was no need for legislation to prevent the conquering people intermarrying with the conquered.

That old idiom. (5, Funny)

Kirin Fenrir (1001780) | about 8 years ago | (#16130828)

Cheaters never win. Okay, well, they always win, but that's what makes them losers.

Re:That old idiom. (1)

dourk (60585) | about 8 years ago | (#16131462)

Cheaters never lose, and losers never win.

Ladies and Gentlemen: (4, Insightful)

Winckle (870180) | about 8 years ago | (#16130829)

Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

This is the 12 year old kid who followed some instructions on the internet so he can stop losing at Halo.

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (1)

SilentChris (452960) | about 8 years ago | (#16131060)

That's the only part of the interview that truely surprised me (when he said he was 24). Either he's much younger or the educational system is clearly failing.

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | about 8 years ago | (#16131156)

If this interview is real, he's a cheater at an online game. Why would you believe everything he says?

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (0, Offtopic)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | about 8 years ago | (#16131609)

Because ad hominem is fallacious reasoning.

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (5, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | about 8 years ago | (#16131572)

Rarely is the question asked: Is our players modding?

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (1)

xTEMPLARx (178099) | about 8 years ago | (#16131106)

-
Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

This is the 12 year old kid who followed some instructions on the internet so he can stop losing at Halo.
-

Don't you mean LOOSING at halo? :P

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (1)

Winckle (870180) | about 8 years ago | (#16131140)

No, I'm British, we never make spelling mistakes.

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen: (2, Interesting)

bradkittenbrink (608877) | about 8 years ago | (#16131137)

While, he does claim to be 24, in general I agree with you, he definitely appears to think like a 12 year old. For example:
Aeropause: How many times have you been banned or suspended from gaming servers?
Schmuck5000: .... The people at Bungie are the worst. How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it. Its not my fault that modders cheat.
Aeropause: .... What advice would you give game designers to help discourage cheaters?
Schmuck5000: Give Up! There is no way to stop us. Everyone wants to cheat and we will always find a way to do it.
That's some ironclad logic there, if I've ever seen it.

Re:anti-cheating engine (2, Insightful)

twistedsymphony (956982) | about 8 years ago | (#16131501)

I thought the exact same thing when I read it...

It also got me thinking about what an anti-cheating engine would look like...
Honestly why don't companies like bungie simply run a CRC on any downloaded content, or record the downloaded date server side and compare it with the modified date client side. I honestly don't know much about cheating online but as someone who has modded Xbox consoles I would imagine the cheating comes from modifying the extra content that was downloaded from Xbox live and sits on the hard drive (extra maps, etc.). Since you can't modify the disc content (if you did you'd need to run a modchip and if you're running a modchip when you log into Xbox Live MS can detect that and ban your sorry ass).

I would think something as simple as a CRC or date check would be simple enough, once you download the content it shouldn't ever change so the CRC should always pass and the modified date should never change.

I'd also like to point out that there IS a LARGE distinction between modders and cheaters. I'm a modder, I make changes to the console that allow me to run Linux, Xbox Media Center and other homebrew apps, I'm currently working on an HTPC based around an Xbox console. There are even game modders that create new levels, weapons, and other content for Halo and other games... these don't let you cheat but they give you new things to play with just like user mods in PC games... I would think the nerdy gaming community should be able to recognize this difference (particularly /.ers) what with all the public misuse of the term "hacker".

May I be the frst to say.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130832)

Cheater, Cheater, Pumpkin Eater...... PPPPPPTTTT!

I know what he means (5, Funny)

svunt (916464) | about 8 years ago | (#16130834)

Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out.


Exactly. This is why I carry $1000 in Monopoly money in my underpants at all times.

Re:I know what he means (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130860)

You wear underpants? I've been hiding it in bodily cavities until people wanted to stop playing because of the smell. Then I declare myself winner by default.

Re:I know what he means (1)

neoform (551705) | about 8 years ago | (#16131419)

$1000? What's that worth? 2 hotels?

You'd be better off carrying $10,000 and a pile of get out of jail free cards.

Re:I know what he means (2, Funny)

svunt (916464) | about 8 years ago | (#16131513)

$1000? What's that worth? 2 hotels?

Naw, dog. I'm from the ghetto, that stretch of slum land from Go to Jail. A grand will buy you crack, a lap dance, a few forty ounce bottles of malt liquor, and your own chain of Flag Inns.

Note to Self (0, Troll)

AvitarX (172628) | about 8 years ago | (#16130835)

People who say "more funner" are asshats.

Re:Note to Self (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130894)

People who say "asshats" are recursive.

Re:Note to Self (3, Funny)

spun (1352) | about 8 years ago | (#16131271)

People who say "recursive" are more funner.

New for XBox 360 (3, Funny)

Siberwulf (921893) | about 8 years ago | (#16130836)

"Speak Easy 2: Haxxing"



You to can make ur games much more funner then before! Plug in yer haxx and away yous go! Cal Now!

Weeeoooeeeoooeeooo... (1, Funny)

SocialEngineer (673690) | about 8 years ago | (#16130837)

Here come the Slashdot Spelling and Grammar Police..

"I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

Re:Weeeoooeeeoooeeooo... (4, Funny)

revlayle (964221) | about 8 years ago | (#16130908)

Nah, I bet those were the words of THE CHEATER.

See kids: IF YOU cheat at Halo 2 OR become a Slashdot Editor, your grammar skills *will* slip.

(There's a moral here, but damned if I could figure it out!)

Re:Weeeoooeeeoooeeooo... (1)

hc5duke (930493) | about 8 years ago | (#16130919)

I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."
should read:
I am there to be a complete pussy because I have no friends. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us 10-year olds are just making it more funner.
Did I miss anything? ;)

Re:Weeeoooeeeoooeeooo... (1)

revlayle (964221) | about 8 years ago | (#16130991)

instead of "more funner" it should be "the bestest more funnarest" ;)

Cheat or cheater (5, Funny)

Bloke down the pub (861787) | about 8 years ago | (#16130839)

I thought a person who acts unsportingly was a cheat. Whereas a cheater's sort of like a leopard.

Re:Cheat or cheater (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about 8 years ago | (#16131053)

I think that they are both acceptable, and both are in common usage. Most people say "cheater" when it is a stand-alone noun and use "cheat" when it has a noun modifier. For example, "He was arrested for being a tax cheat," versus, "You're a dirty cheater!" Of course, I have no real idea what I'm talking about.

Re:Cheat or cheater (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131305)

A leopard acts spottingly.

Really lame interview (5, Informative)

EVil Lawyer (947367) | about 8 years ago | (#16130842)

FTFA: "Aeropause: Do you have a girlfriend?"

Boh the interviewer and interviewee appear to be relatively idiotic. This interview might have been marginally interesting if they had interviewed someone more on the cutting edge of cheating -- someone who actually creates the mods, or develops new cheating modalities.

Re:Really lame interview (3, Insightful)

xtracto (837672) | about 8 years ago | (#16130987)

I would like to say thank you to Schmuck5000 for letting us in on how utterly dumb and senseless the mind of a cheater can be. I am sure all our faithful

I agree with parent, the interview is stupid, it is just one person whining because the 'cheater' beat him. I agree that what would be interesting is to interview the developers of the cheats.

However, the reason why the people develop cheats is just because there is demand for cheats. So in a sense this cheater has a point, there is people who wants to cheat, it has been like that since the GameGear times of the NES (or before).

My first cheat was with the Price of Persia game on the PC, I remember looking the PRINCE.SAV file on Xtree Gold and editing it in Hex mode (without knowing what it was, just hacking my way trough it) to have more lives and time. Oh, and to bypass the manual letter verifiaciton =o)

Re:Really lame interview (5, Interesting)

1010110010 (1002553) | about 8 years ago | (#16131314)

You're missing the point of the interview.

Yes, it would be very interesting to ask technical as well as moral questions to the people who enable cheaters to cheat, but this interview gave us insight into why a person would cheat in the first place.

I would also like to add that there is a strong difference between cheating at a single player game, and having fun figuring out the save system, and cheating at multiplayer. When you're cheating by yourself, whether it be because you enjoy reverse-engineering the save file or because you simply want to advance faster, it has no impact on anybody else.

Cheating at multiplayer is an annoyance for everybody. The interviewee clearly demonstrates that there is no technical challenge to what he is doing. He's not doing it because he wants to understand how the game works. He's doing it because he's not very good at the games he likes to play and he wants to win, to the frustration of everybody else.

Re:Really lame interview (1)

EVil Lawyer (947367) | about 8 years ago | (#16131551)

"...this interview gave us insight into why a person would cheat in the first place."

Did it really? Where, exactly? None of the responses came even close to this.

"He's doing it because he's not very good at the games he likes to play and he wants to win..."

From where in the interview did you glean this? The subject specificially says that he is good at the games at which he cheats, without cheating. Whether or not this is true, the interview never gave us reason to believe your claim.

Re:Really lame interview (2, Interesting)

ergo98 (9391) | about 8 years ago | (#16131524)

I agree with parent, the interview is stupid, it is just one person whining because the 'cheater' beat him. I agree that what would be interesting is to interview the developers of the cheats.

It's impossible for a cheater to win. People who face cheaters get irritated because they completely ruin the game, not because they're such potent adversaries.

Even when you aren't getting shot by magic bullets from adversaries who can track you and shoot you through walls, once cheaters have permeated a domain you can no longer enjoy the game: Instead of ceding that your opponnet played better, once there's cheaters in the mix you can never savour a loss (to put it in a funny but truthful way). Suspicion and bitterness overtake the game (on both sides. I was pretty good at Urban Terror, and my abilities were endlessly chalked up to "cheats" by my victims. I could never enjoy my wins, and they couldn't enjoy their loss or learn from it, because the game was saturated by cheaters).

I agree that what would be interesting is to interview the developers of the cheats.

I think what motivates the creator of the cheats is clear to us all. Hell, I would never spam, but creating spam-track avoidance software has always intrigued me because it's a challenge. I'm sure the cheat developers are just playing their own game, and they are legitimately winning.

The people destroying online games, however, are just the scriptkiddy wankers, and really I doubt the actual developers behind the cheat (who do legitimate, real work for their achievements) ever really even bother using their cheats online.

Re:Really lame interview (1)

random coward (527722) | about 8 years ago | (#16131604)

I would bet theat the same people develop cheats as the spam software. 1. Develop software cheat. 2. Package it with spam zombie. 3. distribute for free. 4. Sell spam services 5. profit.

Re:Really lame interview (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131021)

FTFA: "Aeropause: Do you have a girlfriend?"

To which Schmuck5000 replied: "ooooh....cooties!!!!!!!!!!! Gross!!!!!!11!!!!1!"

Re:Really lame interview (1)

plague3106 (71849) | about 8 years ago | (#16131124)

I'm willing to bet most people that cheat in games won't have a girlfriend. Otherwise why would they be so obsessed with 'winning' an online game? People with a SO have better things to do that worry about if they won or lost..

I found the rationalization interesting personally. He honestly thinks the game is more fun playing by different rules... I've never heard of anyone that liked rules which worked against them. He also assumes that the other players DON'T want to play by the same set of rules, which I think is pretty unlikely.

Re:Really lame interview (5, Insightful)

Score Whore (32328) | about 8 years ago | (#16131292)

People who are cheating are playing a different game. They may be having fun, but they are not playing the same game as the rest of the players.

They want to be bully's and the only way the can bully people is to use a "tool" to get over whatever is preventing them from bullying without the "tool".

Re:Really lame interview (1)

Prog_Burner (663126) | about 8 years ago | (#16131367)

Don't you see? He is the "tool"!

athletes use same excuse (5, Interesting)

192939495969798999 (58312) | about 8 years ago | (#16130875)

Athletes often use the same excuse, that since there will be "other" players on drugs, they need to use the same drugs to stay competitive. However, this should only be the case if the drugs are allowed, because any given cheater could be exposed and stripped of their titles, video game or otherwise. That's the ultimate slap-down, because anyone after that will assume you're cheating even if you're not.

Re:athletes use same excuse (2, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 8 years ago | (#16131473)

Athletes often use the same excuse, that since there will be "other" players on drugs, they need to use the same drugs to stay competitive.
I think there's a difference between recreational gaming and professional sports, however. Professional sports are ALL about winning (unfortunately, IMO -- it sets a bad example). Look at the famous quote by Vince Lombardi -- "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

Recreational gaming is about competition, win or lose -- and the fact that some people are willing to cheat doesn't change the fact that if I cheat, I'm throwing away the concepts of fair play and good sportsmanship.

In life, as in gaming, there will always be people who cheat. The questions are:

1) Does your moral system acknowledge that when competing within a ruleset, it is immoral to reach outside that rule set? And,

2) Are you willing to suffer negative consequences for sticking to your morals, even when others are obviously acting outside the rules?

People who cheat usually justify their actions by their response to these two questions; a negative response to the first indicates a contextually amoral system, a negative response to the second indicates an immoral attitude.

The subject of TFA is of the second camp; his justification is that because others have broken the rules, and he doesn't want to suffer thereby, that the rules have changed to allow cheating.

However, this should only be the case if the drugs are allowed, because any given cheater could be exposed and stripped of their titles, video game or otherwise. That's the ultimate slap-down, because anyone after that will assume you're cheating even if you're not.
That works in professional sports; not so in on-line gaming, where anonymity cancels it out. I don't really see a solution -- I know that when I play, there are others playing with whom I'm not competing (the cheaters). It's frustrating, but I can always get my jollies from feeling that I've got the moral high ground. When there are too many cheaters, I play a different, less popular game -- where cheating is less rampant.

Re:athletes use same excuse (2, Funny)

edxwelch (600979) | about 8 years ago | (#16131615)

Are you suggesting that taking anabolic steroids can increase your performance in a Halo2 death match?
interesting

Interview the Enabler Please (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | about 8 years ago | (#16130880)

I haven't read this article. But from that last sentence of grammar stumbling, I'm not interested in this interview at all. I don't know what Xbox modding is but I'd imagine that Schmuck5000 didn't invent this 'modding' procedure. A lot of times, they just follow some process online and then run around killing people saying "1337 h4Xx00rs pwn you n00bz0rs." I consider these people much less than 'cheaters' although I don't think the names I have for them are for public display.

What about the people who write the code or make the hardware for the mods? You know, the people that actually do all the work? I want to talk to these people who probably don't even use it all that much but just consider it a challenge and then get bored after the challenge is overcome. Game Genie & Game Shark are popularized commercial versions of this but it's not online play. I wish I could talk to the people that reverse engineer the packets sent out using something like Burp or a networking tool that gives them speed hacks. These people work for it while I don't even think their end goal is really to cheat. I kind of have the feeling that they enjoy the cat and mouse game that appearantly Blizzard has won (after rounds of losing) but Xbox Live has lost.

I investigated writing a program that read the memory from video and tried to interpret it using heuristics on what to do in casewise instances. While it might work for some games (like Tetris), 3D emersion worlds like WoW or online play are much much more difficult. If people are out there and writing these 'bots' that are pretty highly sophisticated, I'd love to hear from them and ask them real questions (not "Do you have a girlfriend?").

By the way, the article has a picture of Steve Martin as "The Jerk" and it's pretty obvious they were interviewing an idiot and doing a radio talk show host job of making him look like a poser.

Re:Interview the Enabler Please (2, Informative)

Cadallin (863437) | about 8 years ago | (#16130997)

Here's a hint: AI's in Video games don't look at the video data.

Bad Hint (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131023)

Thanks for the hint but Blizzard has some kind of root kit thingy that monitors which applications are altering WoW's memory space. My point is that I know people who did this and got their accounts banned so they knew Blizzard was somehow hip to the fact that they were just editing the values in memory.

Final option is to just read the video and use AI algorithms to interpret it. Computationally very expensive (pattern recognition and what not) but that's the fun part.

Re:Interview the Enabler Please (1, Troll)

NosTROLLdamus (979044) | about 8 years ago | (#16131019)

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it ever so much more rapidly.

Re:Interview the Enabler Please (0, Offtopic)

Aladrin (926209) | about 8 years ago | (#16131512)

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it ever so much more rapidly.

Oh wait, there'd be nothing of your post left.

NosTROLLdamus FoREVer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131576)

With a name like NosTROLLdamus, I'm sure your sole objective is to add to the conversation.

Bravo, well done.

*claps sarcastically*

Re:Interview the Enabler Please (1)

HarvardAce (771954) | about 8 years ago | (#16131421)

I consider these people much less than 'cheaters' although I don't think the names I have for them are for public display.

You're new here aren't you?

Re:Interview the Enabler Please (1)

rabbot (740825) | about 8 years ago | (#16131456)

I wrote a very simple program for a certain FPS a while back that would read the video memory and determine if my crosshair was on an enemy model and immediately fire...pretty simple but very effective (60-90% accuracy).

I'm not a cheater though, I just wrote it to see how easy it really is to defeat punkbuster. Aside from the testing I did with some friends on live servers, I don't put it to use...takes all the fun out of the game.

Obviously this isn't sophisticated at all, but I thought I would share it with you none the less.

someone has to point it out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130883)

"more funner"

it's a fact of life (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130891)

There are people who are selfish, destructive, and otherwise
screwed up. Don't see any short term fixes for this one.

The subject was then told that (5, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 8 years ago | (#16130898)

he cannot "mod" the English language as easily as he can his XBox.

He has a great future (1)

Phillip2 (203612) | about 8 years ago | (#16130909)



I think he has a great future in front of him. As we are continually told, life
is a competition. The point is to win and not to winge about how it wasn't fair
when you loose.

Besides which, it is only a game that we are talking about. If you are worried about people cheating, I would suggest chess or scrabble. Much harder to cheat at these.

Phil

Re:He has a great future (1)

Hahnsoo (976162) | about 8 years ago | (#16131488)

Well, as far as chess and scrabble, one can easily have computerized assistance to gain an edge over his/her competitors, especially in an online setting. However, as with many cheats, that would defeat the purpose of the game.

I've used cheats before in single player computer/video games to accelerate my progress through a game if the gameplay that I'm bypassing isn't what I'm interested in. For example, I may use cheats to augment health or cash or ammunition when I'm more interested in progressing through the story of the game rather than relishing the challenge of the gameplay (although, isn't that what difficulty levels are for?). However, these cheats are often built into the game by the developers for debugging and playtesting purposes. Thus using these cheats for similar purposes is in-line with how the game is meant to be played.

The main problem with cheaters is not that they are seeking personal gain or that they have augmented their playing experience. It is the fact that they often ruin the experience for others. Games are very much a social activity for many folks who play online, and the presence of cheaters degrades their competitive experience. And while the casual online games aren't of much consequence, as more games are played competitively for money and/or status, cheating will become a more serious issue in the future.

Re:He has a great future (1)

HarvardAce (771954) | about 8 years ago | (#16131507)

If you are worried about people cheating, I would suggest chess or scrabble. Much harder to cheat at these.

You, sir, have never played Scrabble against my friend's grandmother then.

Possible ways to cheat:

  • Use made-up words. (When I was really young I didn't know better...we ended up having to buy her a Scrabble dictionary so she couldn't cheat.)
  • Use a regular letter upside down as a blank (only works until the third blank comes up).
  • Swap letters when people aren't looking.
  • Use fuzzy math [wikipedia.org]

Oboy! News for Nerds!! (2, Insightful)

arun_s (877518) | about 8 years ago | (#16130918)

I always wanted to get inside the mind of a cool haxx0r.

Give Up! There is no way to stop us. Everyone wants to cheat and we will always find a way to do it. Anyone reading this is simply jealous of the fact that I have enough nuts to cheat and play the game the way I want to.

Man that guy's got balls! None can stop our XBox-modding overlords.
Thanks /. for bringing this to our attention.

Flamebait Responses (1)

pnattress (1002576) | about 8 years ago | (#16130922)

Let's face it, the reason people cheat at games is to get a rise out of people. They revel in the annoyance they cause. The responses this 'modder' gives are just further examples of this flamebaiting. I'm sure some armchair psychologist somehwere can postulate as to exactly why cheaters want to cause such aggravation, but this interview is not an amazing exposé into the mind of a cheater -- it's just another platform he can use to piss people off.

Re:Flamebait Responses (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 8 years ago | (#16131044)

I think Penny Arcade summed it up quite nicely [penny-arcade.com]

Re:Flamebait Responses (1)

east coast (590680) | about 8 years ago | (#16131182)

Let's face it, the reason people cheat at games is to get a rise out of people.

I disagree with this. To some point this is probably true but from another aspect I think that cheaters do it to fulfill some level of self-esteem. Having your name high on the kill/death ratio list is a big thrill. For some unfortunate gamers it may be as close to success as they've ever been in their lives.

If this weren't true than how can you explain cheat codes in single player games? Surely most gamers are aware enough to understand that the AI doesn't get irked by being pWn3d. So for these people it makes them feel better than they completed a game that all their friends are into. It's a social measure among gamers.

I don't think one single motivation can explain all aspects of cheating.

apparantly he didn't learn his lesson in school. (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | about 8 years ago | (#16130924)

[...] us modders are just making it more funner.
Obviously his cheating in English, and thus rendering him inable to communicate in a meaninful manner, didn't teach him anything. Sadly the results of cheating in Halo are even less drastic, so he won't learn his lesson here either.

Re:apparantly he didn't learn his lesson in school (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131168)

Obviously his cheating in English, and thus rendering him inable to communicate in a meaninful manner, didn't teach him anything.

Obviously, his cheating in English, which rendered him unable to communicate in a meaningful manner, didn't teach him anything.

Sadly the results of cheating in Halo are even less drastic, so he won't learn his lesson here either.

Sadly, the results of cheating in Halo are even less drastic, so he won't learn his lesson there either.

You're welcome.

Truely a man who deserves a beatdown. (0, Troll)

jellomizer (103300) | about 8 years ago | (#16130934)

Cheaters on Online games piss me off the most.

It is not about if you win or loose. But when cheaters are in the game then it is about you just loosing, with out a chance to win.

His observations I would consider all wrong.

People are jelious at the cheater because they don't know how to cheat. Maybe a couple of people but most of the Pissed off people can do it if they wanted to. It doesn't take that much skill to copy what is on the internet.

Second assuming other people are cheating means you have to cheat too. This is saying other people are breaking laws so I should too.

Third calling people who complain about cheaters winers. The people who report cheaters and get them banned are heros in gaming (And gaming companies should give them a month a free service for each cheater they sucesfully report). These are people who want to play and enjoy the game. If they loose fairly they may be annoyed but it is the nature of the game. But having a cheater beat you is just a wast of your time. When going against a cheater your skills will not improve because no mater what you do you fail.

I have been called a cheater before but that was just because I was playing a team game (StarCraft) and I worked will with my team and the other side didn't so the other side lose a painful death while my team won. (Of course after we one the kid said he will get us banned off the internet because his dad owns the internet)

Re:Truely a man who deserves a beatdown. (1)

plague3106 (71849) | about 8 years ago | (#16131177)

When going against a cheater your skills will not improve because no mater what you do you fail.

Not always true. I remember in college beating a cheater... he was so bad at Quake that even his cheating didn't help him much.

Worst typo ever (1)

rbarreira (836272) | about 8 years ago | (#16131243)

Of course after we one the kid said he will get us banned off the internet because his dad owns the internet

Worst typo I've ever seen around here lately!

Re:Truely a man who deserves a beatdown. (1)

HarvardAce (771954) | about 8 years ago | (#16131583)

The people who report cheaters and get them banned are heros in gaming (And gaming companies should give them a month a free service for each cheater they sucesfully report).

  1. Get gaming companies to give a free month of service for reporting a cheater.
  2. Get friends to cheat.
  3. Report friends, get free month.
  4. ???
  5. Profit!

You had a good point in there... (0, Flamebait)

chriso11 (254041) | about 8 years ago | (#16131611)

It hurt me to read your posting - not to be a huge *hole (more of a medium *hole), but here is an edited version of your post:

Cheaters on Online games piss me off the most.

It is not about if you win or lose(loose). But when cheaters are in the game then it is about you just losing(loosing), without a chance to win.

I consider his observations all wrong.(His observations I would consider all wrong.) Too much Yoda

People are jealous(jelious) at the cheater because they don't know how to cheat. Maybe a couple of people but most of the Pissed off people can do it if they wanted to. It doesn't take that much skill to copy what is on the internet.

Second, assuming other people are cheating means you have to cheat too. This is saying other people are breaking laws so I should too.

Third, calling people who complain about cheaters whiners(winers). The people who report cheaters and get them banned are heros in gaming (And gaming companies should give them a month of(a) free service for each cheater they succesfully report). These are people who want to play and enjoy the game. If they lose(loose) fairly they may be annoyed but it is the nature of the game. But having a cheater beat you is just a waste of your(correct use of 'your') time. When going against a cheater your skills will not improve because no matter what you do you fail.

I have been called a cheater before but that was just because I was playing a team game (StarCraft) and I worked will with my team and the other side didn't so the other side lose a painful death while my team won. (Of course after we won(one) the kid said he will get us banned off the internet because his dad owns the internet)

God, why did I do this? I wasted a lot of people's time here. Can't ... resist ... posting ...

The Worst Part... (5, Insightful)

HappyCycling (565803) | about 8 years ago | (#16130951)

The worst part of cheating is that it forever creates doubt, mistrust and skepticism about the skills of others online, meaning that if you play well, you are labeled a cheater. Respect goes out the window.

Re:The Worst Part... (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about 8 years ago | (#16131199)

I remember back when Counter-Strike was "new" (and "beta"). One day I was in "the zone" and the server admin was picking open-maps to just have all-out skirmishes. So both teams were just rushing eachother with little/no strategy except "don't die."

I'd hang back for a minute then go pick-off the remains. I'd sneak around, walking, in the shadows with my carbine. And because everyone left was already pretty hurt it wouldn't take more than a few shots to take them out. After a couple of rounds I was #1 by a fair margin. The admin started kicking me and said I must have been cheating to the other players.

Now, being as I was always playing with the same few dozen people this annoyed me. I mean, I knew most of these people in-person as well as the mod. And while I was not one of the best players, I'd classify myself as pretty good. Fortunately everyone had short memories so it was forgotten by the next day.

But it still annoyed me that my skill and luck got me kicked out of the server constantly and labelled as a "cheater" (short-lived as it was).

Re:The Worst Part... (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | about 8 years ago | (#16131259)

The problem that the parent poster described is very real.

There are some people in the world that are in the upper 0.01% for gaming. They're not cheating - they really are just that good. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell the difference.

I used to run all of the gaming servers for a (now defunct) gaming clan and I was often called upon to jump into a game and check out someone in person to see if they were cheating. Automated tools like PunkBuster et al. can be tricked and fooled; The best way to catch a cheater is through observation, but even then it can be difficult to tell.

I'm sure that I have banned more than one innocent person. To those people: I'm sorry. Maybe you have awesome reflexes, or maybe you have a 6th sense that others lack. I don't know that though. I always tried to give the benefit of the doubt - I would rather forgive the guilty than punish the innocent - but everyone makes mistakes.

Rare Opportunity? (3, Interesting)

KermodeBear (738243) | about 8 years ago | (#16130960)

The summary calls this a "rare opportunity to interview a cheater". Cheaters are hardly rare and it isn't difficult to talk to them. Granted, you're likely to get "OMGSTFUONTEHBBQ!!!11!1!one!eleven" than a real conversation, but...

Regardless, the amount of cheating that exists online now is the reason I only play online with people I know, on locked servers. The rest of the time it is single player stuff. When I play a game I play to have fun, and cheaters make games very UN-fun.

Catching them can be a problem. I'm happy the some companies are taking steps towards anti-cheating measures, but ultimately the cheaters are going to win. They control the software running on their hardware and they can modify it as they see fit.

PunkBuster was a good example of this. A server with PunkBuster running required all client connecting to be running a PunkBuster client, which reported to the server various bits of information such as video drivers, what processes are running, if something might be modifying the game's memory, etc. But, after a while, it was useless because the client software was hacked to make the cheater player seem legitimate.

Anti-cheat software is like a lock on a door: It only keeps the honest people out.

Re:Rare Opportunity? (5, Insightful)

Buzz_Litebeer (539463) | about 8 years ago | (#16131241)

I used to help write anti cheat software, and the thing is the cheats have their own forums as well.

if you want to "interview a cheater" it is very easy to find them.

To successfully find out what cheats were out there I had to get on those boards and become a member and all that stuff. Trust me, "skill" can easily be downloaded for almost any game out there.

The cheaters get all angry and stop playing if they cant cheat, cause the game "aint fun" because they losing or they expect someone else is cheating against them when they lose.

We are teaching our kids that the only way to have fun is to win, and if you are second place it just means your the first loser and all of that.

Kids arent learning that the POINT of the game is to show how good you are at it versus someone else, when you are cheating you arent really playing the same game and your rules are better in your favor. Its completely pointless.

Contradiction... (1)

ResidntGeek (772730) | about 8 years ago | (#16130966)

Dammmit, I really wish natural selection still worked.

The people at Bungie are the worst. How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it. Its not my fault that modders cheat.

later...
What advice would you give game designers to help discourage cheaters?
Schmuck5000: Give Up! There is no way to stop us. Everyone wants to cheat and we will always find a way to do it.

Re:Contradiction... (1)

PreviouslySeen (714752) | about 8 years ago | (#16131248)

Well, hopefully it will work--every hour they are cheating at games, they are not adding to the gene pool.

I used to cheat on Halo 2 too! (2, Interesting)

Stormx2 (1003260) | about 8 years ago | (#16130969)

So you can get an interesting look into my mindset if you want. I expect heavy critisism but I'll continue anyway: Halo 2 is a fun game. I'm not gamer, and Halo 2 is one of the only games I actually play, besides the ones on my old Megadrive! I played online for quite some time until I experienced a cheater on a matchmade game. I became interested. I'd been using linux for 6 months and the idea of putting it on my xbox - to cheat - appealed to me. It took me a lot of getting to grips with the text talk used by all the "modders" as they prefer to be known on Halo 2. Eventually I managed it, and got banned in 6 hours on my subscription account! I guess that taught me a lesson. For a few months I cheated offline with friends. Some of the less destructive hacks (such as the new-ish 0 gravity hack) can make some interesting playing, and I agree with said cheater that it can bring a different edge on a game which can become repetitive! I decided to mod online one day. Not for glory, just to see if I could. It actually takes 2 people to mod online, and 4 hours of fussing around with that meant I totally screwed it up, and didn't have a single sucessful game! Heres my excuse: I'm a bit of a documenter/tutorial maker myself. Hacking Halo 2 isn't that simple. A lot of newbies get stuck, I was one. A lot of cheaters are fools and pre-teens (including mental age here), but not all of us! Much like the OSS community have their shared ideas, "modders" do too. I'm not demonising OSS here either. I actually wrote a rather lengthy and detailed tutorial, the only of its kind, on this topic (Halo 2 Softmodding, google it). Thats my excuse. I haven't played halo 2 in 6 months now, but cheaters don't always cheat to win. A lot do, but try and bare this point in mind! And please comment on this =) I just wrote a blog post on my second slashdot comment. Ah, such a newbie.

Re:I used to cheat on Halo 2 too! (1)

Broken scope (973885) | about 8 years ago | (#16131170)

It is one thing to mod and play with your friends in custom games and do zero gravity and such. It is completely different to go in to a ranked match or someone elses custom game and not play by the rules they have to play by or that they want to play by. Some people like to play a pure game of deathmatch and want to have a competition, a modder has no right to come in and cheat and ruin that.

Ah yes the: 'They All Do It' defense! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16130971)

The Kid must be a Liberal Democrat, because everytime one of their politicians get caught stealing or in some other scandal they all stand up and say: 'But they all do it! So my guy should too!'

(And for all those who will mod this down, be honest: how many times have you seen that response here in /. in the last month?)

Cognative Dissonance (5, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | about 8 years ago | (#16130989)

I hope I spelled that right...

But man, it's amazing this guy can't put two of his responses together:

The people at Bungie are the worst. How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it.

Ok, ignoring for the moment that they did do that (they put it on a freakin' console, for one), even ignoring that banning cheaters is an "anti-cheating engine" of sorts, when asked how game designers should stop cheaters (since he suggested that they do), he says:

Give Up! There is no way to stop us.

So, damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

Still, this has got to be my favorite quote:

The other players are just jealous p***ys who wish they had the ability to cheat.

Funny, I think this guy cheats (not hard!) because he's a jealous pussy who wishes he had the ability to play fairly.

I can play each and every game I cheat at very well.

I call BS. The people I know who can play a game "very well" -- some of them could be tournament-level if they practiced just a bit more -- would all much rather play fair. Oh, they have fun with new cheats and exploits, for about 10 seconds, and we're talking about things like Warthog jumping. The rest of the time, they are the ones who will be winning anyway, by knifing the aimbotter in the back.

But I suppose it's like trying to teach a Ferengi about honor, or a Klingon about restraint, or a Trekkie about the Real World. He'll always cheat, and he'll always suck, and nothing I say will change that.

Re:Cognative Dissonance (1)

joe 155 (937621) | about 8 years ago | (#16131213)

I have to agree. I will cheat on some offline games, because I'm not that good at them and sometimes just can't be bothered to put in the effort to get good, but cheating online is just a sure fire way to piss off the honest people and make everyone not want to play. I've played online against people who both are loads better than me and camp and thats enough to piss me off (almost to the point of leaving but I feel I should at least be curtious) but if someone can just click to kill from anywhere or other such things then it'd be the most annoying boring games for everyone. I wonder if he even gets to finish most games because when people notice (and I'd think they would) they'd just leave...

Bad grammar, imaturity, poor spelling..... (5, Funny)

Prien715 (251944) | about 8 years ago | (#16131007)

Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner.

Bad grammar, immaturity, poor spelling...Quick Taco! You've found a new Slashdot editor!

We need a Superhero team. (1, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | about 8 years ago | (#16131047)

We need to get a group of hackers who are willing to come up with mods for cheaters which get them reported as a cheater or perminatly screws up their system they try to mod. If they could get enough of these people perhaps a smaller numer who can come up with these mods and then a larger amount to advertise them on the game mod sites, and have enough of them saying how will it works. Perhaps we could start putting a dent in this.

Wow.. (1)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | about 8 years ago | (#16131113)

I tried reading this, but the grammar center of my brain imploded. This would have been a far more intellegible interview had they actually interviewed The Cheat. [homestarrunner.com]

Re:Wow.. (1)

Lemmeoutada Collecti (588075) | about 8 years ago | (#16131455)

Thank you. Thank you very much. I just had this wonderful (soda spraying) audio visual moment of the cheat reciting this guy's answers in his usual cheat manner, complete with kerpows, clickaclickas, all while playing Halo XIXVII: Strongbadia Invasion on his fruit.

Complete with Strongbad as the interviewer.

You just made my day.

Worst interview ever (1)

tont0r (868535) | about 8 years ago | (#16131118)

All this interview does is feed that guys ego, which probably why he cheats in the first place. I never understood the reason for cheating other than to boost your own childish ego. No matter how much this guy wants to say it, it gives you an unfair advantage. Its not part of the original game design. The people he is playing with are playing by the games rules, not his hacked xbox rules.

Besides, I never saw the point in cheating. If I can cheat, say Auto Aim, why not see through walls? While I'm at it, why not have unlimited ammo? Why not have a bot control my character for me? Before you know it, I'm not even playing the game anymore.

Re:Worst interview ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16131239)

i am actually puzzled why cheats don't just use one that would auto-kill everyone on the server everytime they press fire (even if they are pointed in the wrong direction).
 
anyhoo, this is why game admins are valued. I play CSS a lot and it's pretty cheat heavy, so i play ONLY on servers with a decent admin. I like seeing smack talking kiddies with there hacks getting dumped off servers after one or two cheating kills.
 
I will still never get it though, why they cheat, it makes you look a lot like you suck at the game, you get everyone who meets you online immediately dislike you, and in the end get banned from servers so you never end up with any good rankings (on games that do ranks). i'm so lost on it, it's not like your actually getting the kills in the game, the software (or cheat) your running is racking up the kills, your just sitting there doing nothing.

Twink (4, Insightful)

MeanderingMind (884641) | about 8 years ago | (#16131128)

The principles the cheater presents are remarkably similar to arguments for twinking in WoW. Players claim they do it for a variety of reasons, but a very common one is to "even things out" since the other side probably has twinks.

Also interesting is the similarity in attitude. Anyone posting anti-twink messages generally gets called a "loser" and more offensive terms and is labeled as jealous because they can't get the funds to twink. The cheater says the equivalent, calling people who complain about cheaters some nasty things while saying they are envious because they can't cheat or aren't "smart" enough to.

There's also the classic "If they (being the game creators) didn't want me to cheat (or twink) they would have built an anti-cheat engine (equipment based team selector)" argument. As well as the "I have 1337 skills and even without cheats I'll pwn you" argument.

While there are certainly mature people who do things like twinking because they are bored or because they enjoy fighting other twinks, I think it's obvious (especially if you've ever fought them) that the vast majority are without skill and make up for it with whatever advantage can be afforded to an unskilled moron. If everyone actually cheated, they'd stop playing because they wouldn't be able to win.

The fact that the cheater is 24, lacks a girlfriend (quite defensive about it too), and quotes a hideous translation from a dub of a mainstream cartoon show doesn't lend us to have faith in his intelligence.

Re:Twink (2, Insightful)

dwiget (947248) | about 8 years ago | (#16131294)

Twinking characters is not even remotely close to cheating. Sorry.

Re:Twink (3, Insightful)

Sqweegee (968985) | about 8 years ago | (#16131463)

Twinking in an MMO is part of the game mechanics, nothing like cheating. If someone goes through the effort of gathering the rare items that allow them to equip better gear then they deserve the advantage they have.

You don't get mad at the person who ran around an FPS map gathing weapons, ammo, and armor before opening up on you, or do you expect them to only fight with the default handgun?

Hacker/mod cheaters should be banned and are really only showing their lack of skill at playing the game.

Kobayashi Maru (1)

gatkinso (15975) | about 8 years ago | (#16131131)

Even Kirk was a cheater!

More funner? (1)

whisper_jeff (680366) | about 8 years ago | (#16131153)

More funner? More funner? sigh... I hate being reminded that English is now a dead language...

In related news... (2, Funny)

autophile (640621) | about 8 years ago | (#16131298)

In related news, AeroFLOT interviewed The Cheat:

Aeroflot: In Soviet Russia, interviewEE interviews interviewER!
The Cheat: Mrr, rrr, m! Mm mrr mrah mreah!

--Rob

Legit? (1)

bigbigbison (104532) | about 8 years ago | (#16131307)

Anyone else think this "interview" seems entirely too stereotypical to be true? Maybe I'm not playing online enough or something.

Habitual (1)

Quila (201335) | about 8 years ago | (#16131330)

"us modders are just making it more funner."

It's obvious he cheats on his English tests, too. Most foreigners I know speak English better than he does.

so dont play (1)

gsn (989808) | about 8 years ago | (#16131377)

Guy claims he cheats because there will be modders on the other team
Guy claims he wont stop cheating if no one else does and he is evening out the playing field
Guy claims he can own the battlefield without cheating
Guy claims that people who whine about him cheating should mod their own xbox
Guy claims that everyone wants to cheat and he just had the nuts to do it

Guy is a whiny little bitch who cant play for shit. He makes up excuses to why he should cheat, claiming the otheres are , and therefore they are against him. He is deluding himself that he is skilled because he can cheat and applies his ill gotten success to when he played normally without success. He deludes himself that he is somehow being fair by restoring an even playing field. Essentially the reason to cheat ultimately remains the same - someone sucks at the game or has a perverse need to be number 1 without accquiring the skill to earn that position, and in either case the person needs a slap in the face and to be told that its just a game and it doesn't matter if you lose. Grow up.

We had a simple way of dealing with people who cheated in school - we'd not play with them. If its obvious someone is cheating quit and join a different game.

This shows it all (1)

Blnky (35330) | about 8 years ago | (#16131397)

I think this shows it all. The conflict between the "it's not my fault" and the "I am so much better than you" mentality. Apparently his brain short circuits before he connects these two.

Schmuck5000: ...The people at Bungie are the worst. How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it.

Aeropause: ...What advice would you give game designers to help discourage cheaters?
Schmuck5000: Give Up! There is no way to stop us. Everyone wants to cheat and we will always find a way to do it.

I sense a disturbance in the force... (5, Funny)

musicon (724240) | about 8 years ago | (#16131494)

... as if millions of grammar nazies cried out in terror, and were silenced.

"more funner" indeed.

Stupid hackers (1)

nojjynb (1003593) | about 8 years ago | (#16131573)

Wow, that post reminds me of soo many issues I have seen playing Counter-Strike: Source. Most of the time, hackers are immature losers who can't compete well, though yeah, some people like to try them out for fun. I try not to get mad anymore, I just log on to my server's IRC channel, contact an admin and then proceed to give the cheater what he deserves: a brutal verbal owning after every time he gets killed. If you hack, then you should never die. If you die, then you are a f***tard and should be shot. I am one of those players who knife's the aimbotter in the back, and I enjoy every last death of a cheater. The most cheating I have ever done is single player: IDDQD, IDKFA, IDSPISPOPD... anyone who NEEDS to cheat with other people to have a good time is NEVER a good player with out the hacks.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>