Engine On a Chip May Beat the Battery 321
Krishna Dagli writes, "MIT researchers are putting a tiny gas-turbine engine inside a silicon chip about the size of a quarter. The resulting device could run 10 times longer than a battery of the same weight, powering laptops, cell phones, radios, and other electronic devices." From the article: "All the parts work. We're now trying to get them all to work on the same day on the same lab bench." The goal is to do that by the end of the year.
I wonder how safe they will be? (Score:5, Funny)
And you thought a hot battery in your lap was scary.
p = mv & F =ma (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, at 20,000 rpm
Do the math (remember we are talking about the speed of the part of the object that is actually moving).
Another way of looking at it
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:2, Interesting)
I think you need to check your units there, boyo.
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:2)
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:5, Interesting)
E = 1/2 mV^2
Mass should be small since mass/volume hase cubing scaling. I expect MIT is not too concerned about it since they did not mention it.
I used to work at Cummins research center -- watch a turbocharger burst test if you get the chance, basically dump in as much fuel/air as it takes to get the flywheel to fly apart. Test is: is the casing is strong enough to contain all the flying pieces.
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:2)
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:3, Interesting)
Here [cam.ac.uk] is a movie from Rolls Royce, not exactly the same, but it's nice.
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:2)
TFA said it runs at 20 krps, which would be 1.2 million rpm. Even if the mass is low, do you really want to be around when the compressor and/or turbine blades come apart? Historically, compressor disintegration [google.com] has been a Bad Thing.
Re:p = mv & F =ma (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I wonder how safe they will be? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
No, but I did think it was a PITA having to quickly plug into a wall socket as my laptop's about to put itself to sleep when the battery's getting low... now I'm gonna have to jump in the car to buy some fuel! I could syphon out of the car, but that's a bad habit to get into, which could lead to me finding myself having to
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
At least I scimmed TFA before posting an ignorant, unimformed comment.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Short your Li-Ion battery with a nice fat conductor sometime and tell me what you get.
Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible for any injury to person or property resulting from your potential stupid actions, whether I suggested them or not.
...or not (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, a bottle of plain water (about 1 kg of matter) contains roughly 100 petajoules (10^17 J), and still they are known to explode very infrequently. What matters is how stable the energy state is.
Cripes! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Cripes! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cripes! (Score:5, Funny)
And the day after tomorrow it's Apostrophes on a motherfucking Chip!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Chips on a Shoulder!
Re: (Score:2)
Too late. [fsu.edu]
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
potato chips, that is!
Re:Cripes! (Score:4, Informative)
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Ye' have never fought the likes o' a man eat'n shark with lasers atop their skulls!
Pffft! Chips with lasers! You yellow-belly land-lubber!
double cripes! (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I knew it! Those bastards have figured out how to make apartments even smaller!
Re: (Score:2)
Tomorrow, I suppose I'm just going to live on a chip.
Maybe not tomorrow, but relatively soon. [netspace.net.au]
build a better battery (Score:2)
I guess instead of building a better battery it's build a better generator. I guess all that matters is the efficiency of the design. My question is obviously heat production, and probably not as important exhast gases. How clean will this device burn. How well will these gases coexist with heat, and ionization.
Sounds like a interesting replacement for motors too.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
Hot exhaust? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, more like air-popping, really, so at least they'll be low-fat. Which, I concede, will likely not be much of a comfort.
Re:Hot exhaust? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and speculate that when it runs out of gas, the engine stops turning.
Re: (Score:2)
What will be interesting is trying to get a fueled laptop (and spare fuel containers) aboard a commercial airliner. I read something the other day about one of the airlines (Virgin?) banning Dell and Apple laptops due to the exploding/burning battery debacle. Can you see them letting you on board with flammable and potentially explosive fuels? I sure can't!
Re:Hot exhaust? (Score:5, Informative)
Even a gas tank, which gets filled with air as the gas is used, rarely explodes even in the most violent car crashes. Usually what happens is that the fuel gets sprayed everywhere and burns on the surface. An explosion wouldn't come from all the gas suddenly burning, as happens with a genuine explosive, but from the vapors in the tank combusting and causing the tank to rupture.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It has been forbidden, in the United States, to take liquids of any kind onto an airplane ever since the so-called "foiled terrorist plot" (another name for it would be "a bunch of guys bragging to each other how they would take down an airplane if they wanted to" since it never got anywhere near the level of "plot". But I digress).
The TSA publishes an online list [tsa.gov] of restricted items.
I know where this is going... (Score:5, Funny)
We could drop half a billion of them over the middle east.
Re: (Score:2)
Small is not good for mechanical applications nece (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Small is not good for mechanical applications n (Score:3, Insightful)
The leakage is going to be a real issue since it is a ratio between the disk size and the gap. Bigger engines mean a higher ratio. That is one of the reasons that BIG gas turbines are relatively efficient while small one suck fuel like there is no tomorrow.
Not insurmountable problems (Score:2)
They're not unsolvable problems. I assume that actual pro
Re:Small is not good for mechanical applications n (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That is bullshit. You can swap a battery out for another one; in some laptops there are multiple batteries so you can do it without even hibernating the unit first. Users will definitely want to refuel in the field, while the laptop is in use.
It's not an issue anyway. You use a porous single element filter in between the fuel fill and the fuel storage. Problem solved. This amazing technology appears in your butane lighte
Generator? (Score:2, Interesting)
I would be more interested in a bioelectric power source, like electric eel cells fed with sucrose.
Re: (Score:2)
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
that's why flex-fuel vehicles a bit more expensive than ordinary gas ones. they need to replace the rubbers and plastics with either different, more expensive, rubbers and plastics or stainless steel or something else not affected by it.
also, ethanol has less potential energy than gas,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
As usual, the answer is in TFA, and it is "Yes":
Re:Generator? (Score:5, Funny)
Electric eel generator, bird beak phonograph needle and dinosaur garbage disposal are already patented by Fred Flintstone.
Re: (Score:2)
Let's see.... maybe put a magnet on the rotor and little coils of wire around the outside? The changing magnetic field will induce current in any nearby conductors. This part was figured out more then 100 years ago. After all the only new thing here is the size.
Re: (Score:2)
What happens if... (Score:5, Funny)
Arrr (Score:2)
Re:What happens if... (Score:5, Funny)
All parts work, just need to put it together (Score:5, Insightful)
Then they spend 200% of the allotted time to make sure what they wrote in the first 10% interact with one another correctly.
Re: (Score:2)
This will never fly :( (Score:2)
pointless? (Score:3, Insightful)
So does your Zippo. (Score:2)
Yes.
It makes a whole lot more sense to me than just cursing as the machine shuts down because the battery is depleted, and you're nowhere near a power outlet.
What Zippo? (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Does it expel cabon dioxide? (Score:3, Insightful)
We need to stop burning stuff for our energy. Sure, batteries store energy made by mostly burning coal and stuff, but there other options for generating electricity to fill those batteries that don't involve adding carbon. I wish these people focused their research towards these types of energy sources.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Polution? (Score:3, Insightful)
So I can't imagine this thing will run very clean at all. Not much room to put in a catalytic converter or other cleaning methods.
I have to wonder what a hundred million of these things running will do to indoor air quality. I don't think I want a thousand of these inside my office building.
Re:Polution? (Score:4, Informative)
Further. the researchers in TFA are not building a piston-driven engine at all, they are building a gas-turbine engine. While it's difficult to speculate on the efficiency at this point (the thing doesn't even exist!), I would expect it to be relatively clean.
Re: (Score:2)
From the linked article: "...the researchers used regular unleaded fuel in a typical four stroke, four horsepower lawn mower engine and found, after one hour, that the PAH emissions are similar to a modern gasoline powered car driving about 150 kilometers (93 miles)."
Re:Pollution? (Score:2, Insightful)
For non-gearheads: If you need to fill 'er up with a mix oil+gasoline, you got yerself a 2-stroke.
Why??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why??? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Other than the obvious weight of history, why would you assume that the turbine runs on fossil fuels? The article never tells us what the fuel is.
It could just as easily be run on butanol, alcohol, or hydrogen as gasoline, petrodiesel, or what have you.
Matchbox (Score:2)
Airplanes (Score:2)
"Will you be flying in fumes or non-fumes, sir?"
Re: (Score:2)
awesome startup sound (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I work next to a rack of development machines. Trust me when I say, "Its cool at first, but gets old fast."
I DO however appreciate why all those people on the tarmac are always wearing ear protectors.
one more... (Score:2)
Now! New MacBook Pro - EPA approved! Improved catalytic converter design! Larger, more efficient muffler! Meets EPA SPMML standards! (Seconds per micro-milliliter)
Re: (Score:2)
Now! New MacBook Pro - EPA approved! Improved catalytic converter design! Larger, more efficient muffler! Meets EPA SPMML standards! (Seconds per micro-milliliter)
With a body kit, cold air intake, stiffer suspecnsion and racing stripes.
so when... (Score:5, Funny)
They should use steam. :) (Score:3, Funny)
Scaling down heat engines? (Score:5, Interesting)
Fluids in general behave much more differently in microscopic quantities than in large bulk quantities. I expect to be lugging large batteries for some time to come.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Steam engines of the era you're discussing [cottontimes.co.uk] heated water in a big drum, just hot enough so it turned to steam, then cooled it just enough so it condensed back to hot water. Both stages (especially the second) were critically dependent on conduction. The heat engine in the example works by burning a fuel-air mix at the the melting point of steel apparantly, and doesn't bother condensing the result. I think the issues are diffe
Make it run on methane (Score:2, Funny)
Wonderful (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
*WHOOSH*
*WHOOSH*
*WHOOSH*
*WHOOSH*
I'm pretty sure that was the sound of a tongue-in-cheek post zooming over several posters' heads
Re: (Score:2)
Oblig.. (Score:2)
I could build a car.
Finally, computers that Really Do Explode! (Score:2)
Now that's progress.
Murphy's Law of Engineering (Score:3, Funny)
"Hey boss, c'mere! I got our engine-on-a-chip to work!"
*boss meanders on over*
*turbine stops spinning*
*boss walks away grumbling*
"Bbbbbut it worked! Really, it did!"
(PS: did anyone notice the "No Karma Bonus" checkbox?)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)