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Xbox 360 adds 1080p Support

CmdrTaco posted about 8 years ago | from the now-wait-a-minute dept.

349

jayintune writes "2old2play has received news from the TGS (Tokyo Game Show) that Microsoft plans on releasing an update that will enable 1080p support on their Xbox 360 console. From the article, "users can expect 1080p upscaling immediately on current games and DVDs while native 1080p on compatible HD DVD titles." What could this mean for Sony now that MS has 1080p as well?" Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?

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frosty piss (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145053)

icy cunt

Ha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145058)

Eat it, Sony! I wish they'd add upconversion on regular DVDs though. Isn't that possible with the hardware?

Re:Ha! (2, Informative)

stuffisgood (666330) | about 8 years ago | (#16145267)

Errr....they did....in the last dashboard update.

Re:Ha! (1, Flamebait)

Psykosys (667390) | about 8 years ago | (#16145283)

If you want your DVDs to look exactly the same, only blurrier, then upconversion's definitely the way to go.

1080p, me! (1, Informative)

pjr.cc (760528) | about 8 years ago | (#16145059)

I have a nice big plasma hooked up to a digital tuner... and in Australia digital tv is very prevalent (as in, every station that used to transmit analog now also transmit's digital with very very few exceptions). On top of that alot of progs are 1080p, and a htpc looks great at that res too:)

Re:1080p, me! (1)

CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) | about 8 years ago | (#16145075)

What is the make and model? It wasn't all THAT long ago I was looking for 1080p plasmas but couldn't find any. Glad to hear there now are some.

Re:1080p, me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145123)

I was also not aware that a 1080p plasma was available - esp in Australia.

Re:1080p, me! (4, Insightful)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | about 8 years ago | (#16145234)

I suspect we won't hear anymore from pjr.cc now that he's actually looked up the specs of his TV and looked at the specs of the broadcast signals he's receiving.

Re:1080p, me! (1)

Ucklak (755284) | about 8 years ago | (#16145394)

I believe only the 56" and above are 1080p.
I was in a big box store just looking and got hammered by sales people touting their wares and they said that only the highest end are 1080p for now.

Re:1080p, me! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145104)

I have a 60" 1080p capable plasma, and let me tell you it cost a huge amount of money, probably more money then many Slashdotters earn in a year! But I also want to make this clear: I earn *lots* of money, probably more then the vast majority of slashdotters. I don't buy things this expensive very often (although the Aston Martin I bought last week set me back a few hundred k), but I like to splash out occasionally.

Re:1080p, me! (5, Funny)

PhoenixAtlantios (991132) | about 8 years ago | (#16145248)

Translation: I work at McDonalds and wish I could afford cool stuff, but I can't so I make up stories about how rich I am online to satisfy my desires.

Re:1080p, me! (1)

balbord (447248) | about 8 years ago | (#16145372)

<sarcasm>
hmmm
I think HTML really needs a <sarcasm> tag.
</sarcasm>

Re:1080p, me! (1)

kingturkey (930819) | about 8 years ago | (#16145179)

"very prevalent" means all 5 stations have digital... honestly, most of the crap they show isn't worth watching, digital or otherwise.

Hmmm, dubious (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145185)

I have a nice big plasma hooked up to a digital tuner..

Please state the make and model of your 1080p capable plasma set.

On top of that alot of progs are 1080p

Australia must be waaaaay ahead of the curve, I didn't think anyone had the bandwidth to broadcast in 1080p? I don't see why they would anyway since the number of people who can actually watch anything in 1080p can probably be counted on your hands.

I call BS on this one. I have no doubt that the op could have a 1080i, that's very common. And broadcasting in either 720p or 1080i is already estabished, his claims seem to be a wee bit over the top.

Re:Hmmm, dubious (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about 8 years ago | (#16145403)

I call BS on this one. I have no doubt that the op could have a 1080i, that's very common.

I suspect it's more a misunderstanding of the the difference between "i" and "p" than intentional BS, but you're right about the format http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=15 [dba.org.au] .

As it stands in AU digital HD tv's a nice-to-have rather than a great leap forward in quality. I've built a MythTV box around a Leadtek DTV2000H, and watch it on a 20" LCD monitor, but most people aren't too interested in switching from PAL, and I'd have to agree - it's not a big enough improvement to make it compelling.

I'll be watching the AFL grand final in HD a projector though...

Re:1080p, me! (5, Informative)

drsmithy (35869) | about 8 years ago | (#16145219)

I have a nice big plasma hooked up to a digital tuner... and in Australia digital tv is very prevalent (as in, every station that used to transmit analog now also transmit's digital with very very few exceptions). On top of that alot of progs are 1080p, and a htpc looks great at that res too:)

No-one in Australia transmits anything at 1080p. ABC and SBS "HD" are 576p, although they have almost no "real" HD content - most all of it is upsampled SD. Seven is also 576p, although I think their "HD" broadcasts actually have 1080i sources. Both Nine and Ten broadcast in 1080i (even sport, which kind of sucks).

Re:1080p, me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145361)

lol, no, it accepts such res, but its native res is different, way lower, check your specs :D

Re:1080p, me! (1)

numbski (515011) | about 8 years ago | (#16145363)

Not to mention that I think Taco asked the wrong question. The right question is:

"Show of hands, who here plans on buying a display capable of 1080p in the next 5 years?"

Re:1080p, me! (1)

Nazmun (590998) | about 8 years ago | (#16145369)

Plasma's mostly seem to have low pixel density. Link your plasma =P, although there are a few new 1080p plasmas.

Re:1080p, me! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145420)

what programs are 1080p ?

afaik only hi-def dvds are using 1080p at the moment and at 25 fps and tv production is all 720p (usually at 60fps)

Addionally, what lots of people seem to miss at the moment is HD DVD (and blueray) content is at 25fps and any good 1080i display will split each frame into two 720p frames doubling the frame rate but preserving the picture quality.

Until there is 60 fps 1080p content available there is little need for an expensive 1080p display when 1080i with support for a 1080p signal is good enough.

Re:1080p, me! (1)

Omroth (673505) | about 8 years ago | (#16145425)

You, sir, know precisely nothing about what you're talking about. Digitial TV is not relatively prevalent in Aus, and there certainly aren't more than... zero 1080p programs being broadcast.

2nd question (2, Insightful)

the_skywise (189793) | about 8 years ago | (#16145063)

Why wasn't this turned on by default?!

3rd question (2, Insightful)

gormanly (134067) | about 8 years ago | (#16145377)

Do either the Xbox 360 Component HD AV Cable [xbox.com] or Xbox 360 VGA HD AV Cable [xbox.com] support 1080p ?

My guess is they don't - they certainly don't list it on the product pages in the links - so 360 owners will need to pony up for another cable, one capable of the 124MHz signalling needed to do 1080p/60 (so spec'd at ~350MHz).

Another question is, what about 1080p movies (if Microsoft sell a lot of the HD DVD add-on drives)? There's no HDCP path on the 360, so either the movie studios forget all about their latest copy-protection scheme and don't set the ICT flag on the discs (sh'yeah, right) or 360 owners could have an Xbox HD DVD player that does 1080p but have to watch the movies they buy at 480p. Ouch.

more importantly... (4, Informative)

maynard (3337) | about 8 years ago | (#16145077)

Is that 1080p/24, 1080p/30, or 1080p/60? Because 1080p/30 has the same bandwidth requirements as 1080i/60 (duh). I haven't seen from either Sony or MS any technical specs which indicate real 1080p/60 support, even over hdmi.

Interlaced Vs Progressive (1)

Phatboy (805714) | about 8 years ago | (#16145152)

If it is 1080p/30, I don't want it. 1080i with 60 fields per second will be superior.

Both have the same amount of detail, as they have the same resolution. But the interlaced version will feel smoother, because it's updating the screen twice as often.

So, is this just a vacuous PR stunt to try to get more attention back onto the 360? Surely not.

Re:more importantly... (1)

gatzke (2977) | about 8 years ago | (#16145156)


Is there any way to check this on a monitor? I am currently looking into a 37" 1080p Westinghouse monitor (around $1500) but it would be nice to know if it does these 1080p versions. I am guessing the LCD sync rate can easily handle 24,30, and 60, but you never know.

How do you check this on a source? Do people publish this info? I have not seen much of it.

Where is a good source for X info for LCD screens? They have VGA inputs, but for linux/mythtv I think you may need a modeline to make it all pretty...

Re:more importantly... (1)

interiot (50685) | about 8 years ago | (#16145300)

I'm typing this on a 37" Westy as well... great display. CNET says it'll do 1080p/60 [cnet.com] , and there's a "system info" menu that mentions the vertical frequency.

Re:more importantly... (3, Informative)

mitchskin (226035) | about 8 years ago | (#16145365)

I've got the Westinghouse LVM-37w3 hooked up to a PC over DVI, and it works great. It's doing 1920x1080 @ 60hz; when I watch DVDs the computer is doing the 24fps->60fps conversion. This does introduce some judder; it seems like the LCD ought to be able to do 24hz or a multiple thereof but I don't know how to do it.

The judder, by the way, is only rarely noticeable and is pretty much the same everywhere else AFAIK, but it would be nice to get rid of it. The software infrastructure for detecting the frame rate of the source and auto-switching the display mode just isn't there though. In other words, I want it to be 60hz most of the time, and automatically switch to 24 or 48 hz when I'm watching a DVD that originally came from a (24 fps) film source, but not when I'm watching a DVD that originally came from a (30 fps) video source. Getting the display and X and the media players to work together to do that is a little way off though AFAICT.

This is my X modeline:
ModeLine "1920x1080" 138.5 1920 1968 2000 2080 1080 1082 1087 1111
The standard autodetection/setup in Fedora Core 4 didn't set up the display right, but after trying it, I found the above numbers by looking in the X log output.

Re:more importantly... (1)

cgicw (922609) | about 8 years ago | (#16145230)

I'm pretty sure the PS3 is 1080p/60 as some of the 3rd party developers have mentioned running demos locked at 60fps in 1080p. I also have not heard anything concerning the framerates for the Xbox360 at 1080p.

Raises Hand (2, Interesting)

aesiamun (862627) | about 8 years ago | (#16145078)

I have my 360 hooked up to my 50" Grand Vega 1080p. I honestly haven't experienced anything where I can compare 720p to 1080p when it comes to games, but if the difference is as good as it is with Video, i'll be happy!

Bad surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145081)

Again Microsoft have the best cards on their hand, and they seem to play them right. I like having the option not to buy a expensive _might-be_ nextgen drive. /duckie

The Perils of Today's Console (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | about 8 years ago | (#16145082)

Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?
I agree with you. Most of the time, I'm a good little consumer and prefer all the options possible on whatever I buy. A console is no different. And 1080p entices me. I'm not willing to pay two or three times more for this functionality but I would certainly enjoy knowing that if ever displays capable of this resolution drop in price, I can take advantage of them.

The primary problems is that games for consoles usually are only made for that console for about 3~4 years. So the price drop on 1080p displays has to drop in that time frame to give me a bit of time to enjoy it.

A secondary problem I see is that consoles are consoles. They're supposed to be a standardized unit in which I can assure myself that everyone is having the same playing experience. This seems to no longer be true with the different models of Xbox360 or PS3 they are planning. And, frankly, it turns me off a bit. Is it a good thing that consoles are becoming more like computers? And if it is, why aren't we just buying a special USB controller from these companies and running everything on our computers?

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (2, Interesting)

LoudMusic (199347) | about 8 years ago | (#16145137)

The primary problems is that games for consoles usually are only made for that console for about 3~4 years. So the price drop on 1080p displays has to drop in that time frame to give me a bit of time to enjoy it.

I was going to make my own parent post but you pretty much summed it up already so I'm just going to bandwagon.

A secondary problem I see is that consoles are consoles. They're supposed to be a standardized unit in which I can assure myself that everyone is having the same playing experience. This seems to no longer be true with the different models of Xbox360 or PS3 they are planning. And, frankly, it turns me off a bit. Is it a good thing that consoles are becoming more like computers? And if it is, why aren't we just buying a special USB controller from these companies and running everything on our computers?

I've not done any research lately, but with other advancements surely it's on its way. What I'm talking about is a Linux based 'console' distribution that runs on a PC. Take a DVD, smack a super trimmed down bootable Linux image and a game on it. Throw it in a PC and you're gaming. Create hardware standards that the disk checks for during boot. At certain intervals the standard could be increased. Now you have a decent 'console' system without the detriment of selling hardware units at a loss. I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like an idea worth kicking around.

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (2, Insightful)

Zach978 (98911) | about 8 years ago | (#16145278)

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like an idea worth kicking around.

I think you're crazy. PC's are more expensive than consoles, and they have windows, so just release the game for windows. You don't have to reboot the box, you can Alt-Tab and get on ICQ or IM, or check your email. You can click on content on a website that will launch the game right then (ie., a replay, a new map, a server to play on). People like consoles becuase they are cheap, they can get the games at blockbuster, they ALWAY work, and one of my biggest things is that you can play from the couch. I sit at a computer all day at work, going home and sitting on the computer doesn't sound good to me.

Soluion presens itself! (1)

Adambomb (118938) | about 8 years ago | (#16145378)

Laptop + wireless kb/mouse + couch = recipe for perfect relaxation and obesity.

aeb

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (1)

Jonny_eh (765306) | about 8 years ago | (#16145388)

Your looking at the problem the wrong way. The PC is not going to make the console obsolete, it's the other way around!
People can have a laptop and a console. The two combined will give you everything you need that a current PC can offer you. Don't forget that the Wii is going to support web browsing.

I've always bought desktop PCs because I'm into gaming, but since I got my 360, I felt it was too costly to keep my PC up to date. And I just can't be bothered to play games at my desk anymore. Instead, I'm going to buy a laptop (a macbook, now that I don't play games), and play games on my 360.

I have my hacked xbox for playing downloaded digital content on my TV too. Apple's iTV should fill in that gap nicely for the ordinary consumer when it's released.

Summary: Generalized PC is on the outs (not gone but less important), specialized devices (ipod, iTV, xbox 360) are in.

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (1)

mattsday (909414) | about 8 years ago | (#16145254)

This seems to no longer be true with the different models of Xbox360 or PS3 they are planning.

AFAIK, the 1080p upgrade for the 360 will be little more than a firmware upgrade...

Matt

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145373)

why aren't we just buying a special USB controller from these companies and running everything on our computers?


You mean the $30 xbox360 controller i bought for my PC doesn't make me an xbox360 owner ???
Heck, now i'm starting to understéand why all those "xbox marketplace" games come as a .torrent file and the "xbox live" client is called "xfire"

Re:The Perils of Today's Console (0)

rcamera (517595) | about 8 years ago | (#16145374)

A secondary problem I see is that consoles are consoles. They're supposed to be a standardized unit in which I can assure myself that everyone is having the same playing experience.

i picked up a used n64 the other day and went to play one of the zelda games. on startup, i got a message stating that i could not play the game because i did not have the n64 expansion card. apparently, consoles have been upgradealbe for a long time now. in the n64 case, not having the upgrade causes certain games to not even play.

Fancy but no more (3, Insightful)

eebra82 (907996) | about 8 years ago | (#16145083)

While I do think that 1080p is a great thing, I doubt it is going to make people go crazy about it simply because 1080p is still a few years away from major distribution.

Some people will already be on 1080p and a few already are, but any sane company would go for the masses, not the less than 1 percent cake of people who are looking for top notch hardware.

I am definitely waiting for 1080p as my next TV replacement, but anything above $2,000 is just not gonna do it for me, so I'll wait a little longer and stick to 720p, which is also very nice.

Re:Fancy but no more (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145223)

if you haven't found a 1080p for under 2,000 yet, then you are lookin in the wrong places my friend. while i paid 2200 for my 50" sony sxrd, i have seen plenty of DLP models for under 2000.

Re:Fancy but no more (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145246)

I already use 1080p I have been using it for over a year and I can't see myself using anything less, the thing is that people don't know what they are missing. Once you get top experience the quality there is no going back. lol. Even on a projection TV 1080p look very good and amazing. now if cable companies in the us decided to puush media giants to better standards.

Does DVI LCD count? (0)

emj (15659) | about 8 years ago | (#16145085)

me, but I guess I never am going to be able to connect my LCD to a gaming rig..

Re:Does DVI LCD count? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | about 8 years ago | (#16145200)

Well, if they ever release an HDMI cable for the 360 you'll be in luck...

I do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145089)

I have a samsung DLP with native 1080P. Just bought it a month ago and that is one of the reasons why I bought the TV for the 1080P. I also have my xbox360 hooked up to my DLP. So to me that would be awesome, now we just need MS to make an HDMI cable for the 360 and we will be set!

random number with a letter at the end (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145101)

Now honestly, show of hands: who knew what 1080p was before googling it?

Re:random number with a letter at the end (5, Informative)

Constantine XVI (880691) | about 8 years ago | (#16145192)

1080 lines of resolution, progressive scan (shows every line in every frame). You can thank me later.

Re:random number with a letter at the end (1)

mpathetiq (726625) | about 8 years ago | (#16145364)

*raises hand*

I think the better question would be who didn't know what 1080p meant.

7 Years Late (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145105)

So what. My TNT2 Ultra on my K6/2 400 back in 1999 could play Quake 3 at 1024x760. Nowadays I have a bargain basement graphics card ($40) that does most things at 1600x1200 without breaking a sweat.

Why would I want a games console? Especially one from the Evil Empire.

Re:7 Years Late (4, Informative)

EGSonikku (519478) | about 8 years ago | (#16145263)

err, you do realise 1080p is 1920x1080 right?

Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (2, Interesting)

Criffer (842645) | about 8 years ago | (#16145114)

Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?

Me. Just as soon as I can find one without Digital Compatibility Prevention [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (2, Interesting)

ldhertert (833408) | about 8 years ago | (#16145199)

The 360 1080p is not over HDCP, it's over component.

Re:Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (1)

Criffer (842645) | about 8 years ago | (#16145227)

Yes, but that's not the point. I want a TV capable of native 1080p, with digital inputs (even if they're not used on the 360), and without any Draconian Restrictions on Media [wikipedia.org] .

Don't need it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145116)

640x480 ought to be enough for any*whack*. ;)

(Raises hand!) (3, Insightful)

nweaver (113078) | about 8 years ago | (#16145119)

The next TV I buy, when the dinky current one gives up the ghost whenever, WILL be 1080p.

Why? Because the true 1080p, rear projection, 50" TVs are not much more expensive than a 1080i TV, but I plan on hooking up a Mac Mini or similar computer output, thus I'd want all the pixels when displaying text etc on the big screen.

Re:(Raises hand!) (3, Informative)

arivanov (12034) | about 8 years ago | (#16145189)

In that case what you should be looking is the supported res and if it is supported on the DVI (or analogue VGA) inputs. These are quite different from the HD ones. For example, recent JVC LT26 LCD tvs support HD 1080p, but their native panel resolution is actually 1366x768. Frankly, I have no idea what is the supported frequency and resolution on the VGA input as it is not written anywhere.

That could take awhile (1)

tbcpp (797625) | about 8 years ago | (#16145339)

My parents have a TV that they got from their parents shortly after they were married, 30 years ago. I think the thing is close to 35 years old. It still "runs". My dad has said he'll upgrade when it dies, and he's been saying that for 5 years. So don't count on having your TV die anytime soon...

What does this mean for monitors? (1)

DrXym (126579) | about 8 years ago | (#16145127)

My LCD monitor does 1080p just fine. What would have happened up until now if I plugged an XBox 360 into it?

Re:What does this mean for monitors? (2, Informative)

mattsday (909414) | about 8 years ago | (#16145277)

Assuming you'd used the VGA input, you'd simply select the best resolution in the xbox dashboard (currently 1360x768 or 1280x1024 highest)

Matt

Re:What does this mean for monitors? (1)

albino eatpod (242140) | about 8 years ago | (#16145304)

Presumably your monitor supports 1080i and/or 720p. If so, you can select which resolution you want from the 360 Dashboard.

Right here! (2, Insightful)

Last_Available_Usern (756093) | about 8 years ago | (#16145129)

Show of hands? Sure, I'll bite, I'm on of em. I have a 1080p set on it's way, and so do a lot of other people. Although a little pricey (but coming down all the time), every one of the highend Sony Bravia LCD's (40", 46", and soon-to-be 52") all support it. Lots of other manufacturers are chugging them out too. Don't be so quick to think Microsoft wasted their time on this. This is quite possibly the best reason for people who are buying new TV's now to get the XBOX360 instead of waiting for the PS3.

Re:Right here! (1)

RhettLivingston (544140) | about 8 years ago | (#16145174)

I don't know about others, but my first 760 TV was purchased because I purchased an XBox and of course wanted the nicest display possible for it. The day I purchase a 1080p capable XBox, I will of course also purchase the nicest display possible for it. The console is neither the most important nor the most expensive portion of the gaming system in my mind.

Are you kidding? (0, Offtopic)

Mark_Uplanguage (444809) | about 8 years ago | (#16145131)

Of course my console (PS2) is hooked up to my big screen TV (54" at 4:3), which is HD capable. Of course I haven't gotten an HD tuner yet (don't feel the value is there), but I'd love to see what the heck this is going to look like. It's just going to take a while before I get a PS3 or XBox or Wii, until after I know they're all available and have good titles out. Honestly I'm completely up for grabs by any console that impresses me with the most value (please don't respond with invalid assumptions about what my sense of 'value' is). Hooray for competition!

nobody has their hand up (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145132)

nobody has a 1080p device or is planning to get one, and all u losers who do have one dont have any content to play on it. high def is irrelevent in this console generation. try the next gen when maybe more than 10% of people will have a freaking 1080p capable display. stupid tards!

Well (2, Insightful)

Sv-Manowar (772313) | about 8 years ago | (#16145135)

This is all great from Microsoft, but the TV's really need to start catching up. In the UK there are barely any true HD units out, the rest just replicate it even when branded as HD, which means that not only will this not help our gaming, but it will be pretty much redundant for most of the life of the console thanks to the saturation of HDTV in the UK being so slow. I think Microsoft definitely need to think about their target markets more and how technology is improving there, because it is all well and good making the console excellent for those who can run it on top-notch hardware - but that is bound to be a small percentage of those who buy the console.

Microsoft's Credibility Drops To Zero (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145139)

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/08/14/Home-Thea ter-Magazine_3A00_-No-Difference-Between-1080i-and -1080p-for-Movies.aspx [ozymandias.com]

Andre Vrignaud from Microsoft:

"What's interesting is that a lot of folks don't realize how meaningless 1080p actually is in this generation."

"To sum up, don't get sucked into all the 1080p hype. Just make sure you have a recent HDTV that de-interlaces 1080i signals correctly and you'll be just fine."

360 games are already struggling to handle 720p with low framerates, screen tearing, affine filtering almost completely absent, and eye jarring jaggies riddling almost every game due to the screwed up ATI graphics system and the too small 10megs of EDRAM. The 360 was a machine designed for 480p - a 480p 4xAA framebuffer fits PERFECTLY in the 10megs of EDRAM.

And now Microsoft is trying to claim 1080p game support???

Microsoft, your credibility in the console market has just about reached bottom after the insane hardware defects and botched backwards compatibility and too small DVD drive that developers are complaining about.

Golf clap Microsoft...

The XBox 360 has a VGA cable. (1)

DarkkOne (741046) | about 8 years ago | (#16145158)

It works well. Surprisingly well. In fact *some* games will play at any native resolution, it seems. For example, DOA4 and Prey both seem quite happy at a nice 4:3 1024x768 (I have mine hooked up to a rather pathetic, ancient LCD monitor that cost far too much, many years back). Anyway, the point being that while there aren't that many people with 1080p HDTVs, I'm sure there's a lot of people who will be happy that they can hook up their monitors, and pick 1080p-scale resolutions (not that they couldn't already, according to the resolution selection screen). I have a 720p TV but find that even on a 1024x768 monitor, games that display letterboxed on it look far better than they do on the TV (text is much more readable in Dead Rising, for example).

Re:The XBox 360 has a VGA cable. (1)

frostedg (1002442) | about 8 years ago | (#16145286)

I have a 1080p TV :P - The Sony 50" SXRD is one of the nicest TVs I have ever seen, and it's not going to take a huge chunk out of your wallet either.

Early adopters... (1)

leland242 (736905) | about 8 years ago | (#16145161)

like me - sigh. I have a nice 50" dlp - 1080i. At least it has hdmi - god willing it is compliant with the new hdmi standard. I got this about a year and a half ago - there were 1080p sets, but they were about double the price.

not to mention, everytime this subject comes up, there is a big discussion on whats 1080i vs 1080p and if hdmi supports "true" progressive mode and how refresh rates make all the difference...

samsung should have a trade in. i would hate to make this the "basement tv".

Composite, man! (1)

DrLungoon (705937) | about 8 years ago | (#16145162)

Nah, still got mine hooked up composite to a tube TV.

Dead Rising's text is just little blurry lines... *sigh*

Re:Composite, man! (1)

hunterkll (949515) | about 8 years ago | (#16145197)

S-Video man, S-Video..

penis measuring (1)

ken-doh (663781) | about 8 years ago | (#16145169)

ps3 blue ray
xbox hd dvd

ps3 1080p
xbox 1080p

when does it ever end?

ipod
zune

google
some shite ms thing

updated console... (1)

10Ghz (453478) | about 8 years ago | (#16145170)

Doesn't this kinda defeat the purpose of a console? That is, an unchanging hardware-platform that works with all the games. Now we have models with and without hard-drive, with and without 1080p...

Re:updated console... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145226)

It's a software update you moron!

Re:updated console... (1)

Wovel (964431) | about 8 years ago | (#16145235)

You could buy optional hardware for the Atari 2600. (Some games required keypad use for example). The difference is no games will require 1080p and very few will require a hard drive (if any).

I have 1080p already but.. (5, Interesting)

ironwill96 (736883) | about 8 years ago | (#16145188)

I recently bought a 50" Samsung DLP TV that has full 1080p support (no upconversion cheating etc). However, I have my 360 set on 720p instead of 1080i even because the 360 is NOT very good at upconverting signals into 1080 anything. I suspect their 1080p upconversion will be the same. My tv is much better at upconverting 720p to 1080p than the 360 is at upconverting from 720p to 1080i. This is especially noticeable on my NBA 2k6 game where the 360 upconversion is much more grainy and aliased looking than the one my TV does. I'm guessing that those of us with 1080p TVs will have to wait 4-5 years until the "next-generation" of consoles comes out that actually fully support it. Many of the games don't look really nice on my TV because it is large enough to magnify any flaws in the graphics and makes most games look more aliased since there just isnt enough resolution being pushed to the TV to look smooth.

Microsoft Goes For The Ricer Strategy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145191)

This is like one of those sad little ricer owners who puts bogus performance stickers on the back of their shitty little car.

Almost every 360 is chugging along at 20-30 fps with vsync turned off in 720p. And now Microsoft's marketing folk are trying to convince gamers the 360 can handle 1080p games?

You're not fooling anyone Microsoft...

Re:Microsoft Goes For The Ricer Strategy (1)

plasmana (984377) | about 8 years ago | (#16145410)

You're not fooling anyone Microsoft...

Yes they are! There are some percentage of consumers out there (younger males no doubt) that are deciding on which console to root for based on horsepower. Microsoft probably found an inexpensive way to help level the perception playing field with PS3.

Truth be told, it's really these consumers who are fooling themselves... "I get my self worth from my toys!"

My hand is down... (1)

steveo777 (183629) | about 8 years ago | (#16145202)

Heck, everyone I know who owns a hi-def only has 720p capable TV's and they've paid their thousands of dollars on them. Haven't seen too many 40+ inch 1080p TV's that sit under $2000. I really would love to have one, but I can easily live without.

I am cheap (2, Interesting)

NekoXP (67564) | about 8 years ago | (#16145213)

I have a CRT HDTV. It's big, bright and clear and fun but a little fuzzy if you want to do PC stuff on it. Playing movies and games though is a fucking dream.

It supports a bewildering choice of resolutions; not because it's got them all, but because it's so few. 480i. 480p. 1080i. It was sooo cheap (less than $300 at Thanksgiving last year)

I don't see why I would want 1080p; the 1080i mode is rock solid stable and has nice contrast. What I want is 720i or 720p support on my fucking TV, so I can buy a games console that runs in there or knock my PC resolution down to a readable level :(

Performance? (1)

BenjyD (316700) | about 8 years ago | (#16145240)

Does the 360 even have the fill rate available to do 1080p with a decent amount of textures and effects?

This is big deal to some people (1)

Comen (321331) | about 8 years ago | (#16145251)

Buddy of mine just bought a 56" Samsung LED DLP that supports 1080p
He has been telling me now for weeks he wishs XBOX360 was going to support 1080p, and this will make him happy.
My 56" Toshiba only supports 1080i, but I am sure my next TV will support 1080p, so this is a good thing.

Good for the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145256)

When PS2 came out I didn't have an HD TV but once I did get one and hooked up GT4 I was quite happy they added support for a technology that wasn't widespread when the console came out.

First Gen Hi-Def User (1)

StarWreck (695075) | about 8 years ago | (#16145285)

I have what I guess you could consider a first gen Hi-Def TV. Its a 52 inch rear projection Hitachi(not to be confused with those new LCD rear projections). It supports both 1080i and 540p. My hi-def cable box outputs 1080i for some channels and it looks crystal clear and my progressive scan DVD player which outputs 480p which is just as good to my eyes. However most channels, VHS players, and older DVD players all output 480i which does look like total crap (well, the DVD at 480i still blows away regular channels and VHS players).

When I go into stores and take a look at the TV's that sport 1080p they don't look much better, some look worse... much worse. Especially a lot of those lower-end brand LCD rear projections, they look much worse to me than my traditional rear projection Hitachi. I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon. I'll probably wait to see 50 inch and larger LCD flat panels with 1080p before I even consider it.

Plasmas are over-priced, wear out too fast, and get burn-in. LCD Rear Projection look comparitively bad. I think LCD flat panels are going to be what takes over once the sizes improve. So I'm happy with my 1080i/540p traditional rear projection and 5.1 surround sound for now.

ah....easy (1)

IcePop456 (575711) | about 8 years ago | (#16145288)

How about people with a 22in+ widescreen LCD monitor? (I guess some of those are 1050). Obviously this isn't dirt cheap, but a 50in 1080p DLP is around $2k. 2 years ago, the 720p was around $3k. Check fat wallet, LCD TVs are getting cheaper too. Given this is slashdot, I find it hard to believe people haven't pick up on the trend - things get cheaper.

Although I hate copy protection too, HDCP on the monitor is no big deal. It is the SOURCES that suck. Either way, I still find it amazing, given this is supposed to be a tech related site, how many people hate HDTV. Yes I hate the way FOX over compresses things, but otherwise the difference is HUGE. Those that can't see the improvement, well I'm sorry for your poor vision.

1080p - NO ONE has that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145291)

Before I start, let me specify, I'm a video engineer and a sound technician, I know my trade. 1080p is NON-EXISTENT in displays availlable on the consummer market. Most HDTV-compliant tv set are capable of ACCEPTING such a resolution but go in your spec and check that nasty spec that says native resolution, native resolution is the actual number of [pixels, lines] your display has, it will never be 1080 lines height-wise, never, it just don't exist, it would cost you your house because no manufacture produce it to date, it would have to be custom made. To have devices capable of true 1080p you have to buy some very high end projectors (Christie and Digital comes to mind) or computer monitors with very high resolutions but a less than adequate aspect ratio for viewing movies.

Maybe it will change, wait lemme rephrase, it WILL change, but as of now, NO ONE has a 1080p tv set, no one. Accepting a resolution don't mean you display it, example: most of our projectors can accept up to 1600x1200 but their native display is 1024x768...

Re:1080p - NO ONE has that (1)

giffnyc (253778) | about 8 years ago | (#16145412)

Sony's line this year is all (native resolution) 1920 x 1080 in the higher end sets. "Full HD" resolution is one of their marketing elements. A 50" rear-projection such as the KDS-50A2000 can be had for about 2200, which, while expensive, doesn't qualify as an arm and a leg with plasmas touching the 10K price for larger screens.

Am I missing something? This is what you meant about the native resolution spec and 1080 lines of resolution, right?

Re:1080p - NO ONE has that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145438)

To have devices capable of true 1080p you have to buy some very high end projectors

Lines of horizontal resolution gets confused with scan lines.
HR is visually resolvable vertical lines per picture height.
Lines of horizontal resolution applies both to television
displays and to signal formats like produced by a DVD player.

DVD has 720 horizontal pixels (on both NTSC and PAL)
and horizontal resolution can be calculated by dividing
720 by 1.33 (for a 4:3 aspect ratio) to get 540 lines.
On a 1.78 (16:9) display, you get 405 lines.

DVD players provide about 500 lines instead of 540 because
of filtering and low-quality digital-to-analog converters.
VHS has ~230 (172 widescreen) lines, broadcast TV has ~330
(248 widescreen), and laserdisc has ~425 (318 widescreen).

Scan lines, on the other hand, measure resolution along the
y axis. DVD produces 480 scan lines of active picture for
NTSC and 576 for PAL.

The NTSC standard has 525 total scan lines, but only 480 to
483 or so are visible. (The extra lines are black and are
encoded with other information). Since all video formats
(VHS, LD, broadcast, etc.) have equal number of scan lines,
it's the horizontal resolution that makes the big difference.

--
When people filter AC, la la
la la la la la la la la la
la la la what they're really
la la la la la la la la la

Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p? (1)

denisbergeron (197036) | about 8 years ago | (#16145297)

Me! I was waiting for nice 1080p games to go for it !

Oh, come on now. (1, Troll)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | about 8 years ago | (#16145302)

Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?

Here, let me rephrase:

720P should be enough for everybody!

FFS.

Slashdot worthy (2, Insightful)

suv4x4 (956391) | about 8 years ago | (#16145311)

I'm like reading the summary and it's being positive about adding 1800p on Microsoft X360 adding 1800p no fuzz and no special requirements. Whaaa? Is this Slashdot or what?

And then this tagged on comment: "Now honestly, show of hands: who has their console (not PC!) connected to a display device capable of 1080p? Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?"

Yeaa! Let's laugh at Microsoft for adding 1800p and we don't have any! Muhaha!

I do, with qualifiers (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 8 years ago | (#16145314)

"Who plans on buying a device capable of 1080p?"

I've decided to hold off on getting an HDTV until I can get my hands on a set that meets the following qualifications:
  1. 1080p, 30 Hz (since it doesn't look like anybody will be producing content for anything better, I'd be able to use it for whatever I want for the life of the television)
  2. CRT (bulletproof compared to plasma and LCD)
  3. Under 40" (I have no desire to get a television I myself could fit inside of.)
Of course, such a television does not exist and probably won't for some time, so I probably won't be getting such a television (or any HDTV) for the life of the 360.

Good for HD-DVD (1)

Wovel (964431) | about 8 years ago | (#16145315)

1920x1080p/24 is the native resolution of Most (maybe all) HD-DVD disks and last I checked, no hd-dvd players supported 1080p. (This certainly may have changed recently). This opens up a big market for MS because they will be providing a relatively low cost hd-dvd player with 1080p support.

VGA out - monitor (1)

DJProtoss (589443) | about 8 years ago | (#16145322)

"Who will run their consoles on something capable of 1080p?"
Presumably anyone who is using a vga out cable to connect their console to a monitor* (as I do) *thats for consoles that actually support vga, not using a convertor box to adjust it.

is 1080p a reality in this generation??? (5, Insightful)

aaronots (997327) | about 8 years ago | (#16145336)

I have serious doubts that true 1080p is really practical in this generation of consoles. The reason being, the more resolution you push the higher the bandwidth and the higher the memory cost. I think developers that produce 1080p games will really be producing 720p games and letting the console up-sample. And that ultimately does little for quality. Lets look as some numbers

On a console running at 1080p you have 1920x1080 pixels x8 bits (for non floating point HDR) That means 15.8 meg per frame buffer. A game typically has multiple buffers it renders to (especially for post processing effects) so there is almost 32meg consumed just so you can display an image. If you are using true floating point HDR one of those buffers would be 32meg.
If you are rendering at 720p a frame buffer is 7 meg for 8bit and 14 for 32bit float HDR.

There is also an impact on fill rate. The 1080p requires more than twice the fill rate. That means (when fill-rate bound) the frame rate must be cut in half or the effects being used must be reduces.
On the PS3 with a practical fill rate of 15GB/s to local video memory, you can overdraw a 1080p scene at 60fps only 16 times. That has a serious impact on use of particle effects, multi-pass rendering, and post processing. At 720p that overdraw rate increases to 36 times.

On an xbox360 the eDRAM affords a greater fill rate (64GB/s) so it could better handle the demands of 1080p but it has to contend with the 10Meg limit on the eDRAM. This means a 1080p scene would require a 4 pass tiled rendering and a 2 pass for scene post processing.

So basically I don't think we will even see true 1080p games without those games reducing their visuals significantly. I would rather have a slick looking 720p at 60fps than a 1080p that looks last generation.

Re:is 1080p a reality in this generation??? (1)

stretchsje (999497) | about 8 years ago | (#16145407)

I doubt it'll actually render at 1080p, you're analysis is dead-on. It sounds to me as if the hardware will render at 720p and simply scale it to 1080p. With the forthcoming HD-DVD and HDMI, the X-Box will certainly have a video scaler built to convert DVD to HDTV and HD-DVD to SDTV. I believe all HD-DVD players do this. The X-Box will look at the 720p video game output as a video stream and thus convert it without any performance hit (or resolution advantage).

What is the Point? (1)

Borland (123542) | about 8 years ago | (#16145385)

Ok, so I admit I'm a Sony whore because of the PS[X] RPG library. So I'm not unbiased about the XBox360.

But I don't understand what Microsoft is doing with all these optional upgrades. I think another poster pointed out that consoles are meant to be standardized hardware platforms. So why is MS attempting to play catch up if features like Blu-Ray and 1080P are useless frivolities?

I mean a developer can create a Blu-Ray HD game without having to worry if the user has an external HD-DVD drive or provide a 1080P resolution option without caring if the console has been upgraded. I mean the next thing you know, MS will have copied a copier and provide motion sensitive controllers.

1080p not as expensive as you think (3, Informative)

James Lewis (641198) | about 8 years ago | (#16145404)

Actually, if you really want 1080p on the cheap (like I did) you can get it for a bit over $1000 by building your own LCD projector. Just use a laptop WUXGA screen. I've done this and am very happy with the results. When comparing it to a commercial projector there are downsides: size of the projector, light distribution isn't totally even (or as bright), colors aren't perfectly reproduced, contrast isn't as great. However, for the price it can't be beat IMHO. Those drawbacks aren't anything I actually notice when watching a movie, it feels just like I'm in a theater . I learned how to do it at the lumenlab forums: www.lumenlab.com

I'll Bite (1)

Hercules Peanut (540188) | about 8 years ago | (#16145413)

I'll likely get a 1080p because of this. I've been playing 360 games on an old 27" Magnavox in a large room for the past 6 months or so (480i). Finally, I decided to upgrade my TV so i could fully enjoy the 360 experience. After doing a lot of shopping, I decided on a 42" plasma which supports 720p. I could have spent about $250 more for a 1080p LCD but why? The Plasma looks great, costs less and even though 1080p is technically better, I don't have a use for it yet and don't want to spend the cash future proffing when the technology is only going to get better and cheaper very quickly.

Suddenly the 360 supports 1080p. I have a 360! I can make use of 1080p right now!! Now I'm not future proofing for a price, I buying something I can use today. So why stick with the interim level of HD when I can move up and make use (would that constitute having my cake and eating it too)?

Now, all that said, I'd like to see some reviews before I spend my $$ but that should answer the question asked in the submission.

Me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16145436)

56" DLP w/1080p attached right now.
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