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Low-End PS3 Comes with HDMI, Cheaper in Japan

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the little-consolation-to-the-us-fans dept.

173

jayintune writes "2old2play has a nice round-up on the main talking points from the Sony Keynote speech at the 2006 TGS (Tokyo Game Show). Most notably, Sony announced HDMI ports will be included on ALL models of the PS3. Initially, Sony was worried that if they put the HDMI in the lower version, some would complain about having to pay for something they don't want. Apparently they realized people would be more upset without it." Additionally, it's been confirmed that the cheaper PS3 will be even less expensive ... in Japan. For now, it seems this price drop only affects the Japanese Market. For many additional viewpoints on the announcement and keynote, click through to see this post's associated links.

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173 comments

Yawn... (1, Insightful)

sporkme (983186) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159357)

How many PS3 articles can there be in a day? Can consoles really be this exciting? Many crappy blogs^W^Wnew articles, little new information.

Re:Yawn... (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159558)

The Tokyo Game Show is on but this is nothing compared the number of Nintendo announcements that appeared on /. when E3 was on.

Sony is starting to get it (3, Interesting)

Mikachu (972457) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159360)

I think Sony is starting to realize that their business plan of "we'll get the fanboys to buy it" isn't going to win the market for them.

I wonder if they'll do the same thing in the US... although I think that if they were going to, they'd have announced it already. Not like I was gonna buy a PS3 anyway, though. Even the cheaper model is too expensive for me. Nintendo Wii all the way, baby.

Re:Sony is starting to get it (1)

Turken (139591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160230)

I wonder if they'll do the same thing in the US...

I'm almost certain that the US will NOT be seeing a price drop. Why? Pricing comparison...

In Japan:
Wii --> 25,000 yen
PS3 --> now 50,000 yen
HD-DVD 360 --> no one buys anyway.

so, PS3 is NOW twice the price of the Wii.

In the US:
Wii --> $250
PS3 --> $500
HD-DVD 360 --> approx $480.

PS3 is already twice the Wii price. Why drop the price further in the US when relative pricing is already the same. And the price is already competitive with an HD-DVD enabled 360 so no need to drop it on that account.

Re:Sony is starting to get it (1)

Borland (123542) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160317)

I'm almost certain that the US will NOT be seeing a price drop. Why? Pricing comparison...

Perhaps, but don't underestimate the force of the "me too!" emotion. Well, at least I can say the "core" PS3 is more worthwhile than the core Xbox360. The only difference now is the wi-fi, hd size, & memory card capability. None of those features are show-stopping differences.

Re:Sony is starting to get it (2, Informative)

Turken (139591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160415)

Well, over at Kotaku they also mentioned this little tidbit: [kotaku.com]

Kutaragi also pretty much confirmed that we won't be seeing a comparative price drop in other territories. According to Ken, the Japanese pricing changes were merely an adjustment to keep the price inline with the market. He argued that the misconception that 1 dollar equals 1 euro equals 100 yen is not a fair comparison. So keep saving, kids. The PlayStation 3 is looking better and better, but still expensive as all get out.

So, it still isn't looking good fro a US price drop.

Re:Sony is starting to get it (1)

erac3rx (832099) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160418)

Once they make it $430 in the US too, it's time for M$ to get worried. It's been clear for a while that if you care at all about HD movie playback, the PS3 isn't that expensive. Cheapest 360 + $199 HD-DVD drive = $500. For $430 now I can get a PS3 with built-in HD movie playback, HDMI, true 1080p for games (say what they want the patch for 360 is just going to upscale all games from 720p, whereas Virtua Tennis 3 is confirmed 1080p and Gran Turismo will be also), _and_ a 20gig hard drive? Wow, PS3 just got a WHOLE lot more competitive. If I want a 360 with a hard drive and HD movie playback, that's a $600 total. I can get the high-end PS3 for that, and it's all in one box, but I get a 60 gig drive, and built-in wireless and card readers. At both sides now the PS3 is VERY compelling. Make the 20gb model a smidge lower down to $399 in the USA and you would be crazy to get a Premium 360.

A last point: I have a premium 360, and can't wait for Gears of War. To those of us that dropped $400 on a 360, $430 for this PS3 seems like a bargain, and $600 for the high-end is definitely competitive.

Confirmation of cheaper ps3 outside japan? (0, Redundant)

ghostcorps (975146) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159373)

I posted this in another thread, but thought this thread is a bit more relavent:

www.theage.com.au/news/games/sony-slashes-p rice-of-ps3-games-console/2006/09/22/1158431887680 .html

Re:Confirmation of cheaper ps3 outside japan? (1)

ghostcorps (975146) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159397)

Re:Confirmation of cheaper ps3 outside japan? (1)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160509)

That doesn't say anything about them cutting the price outside of Japan, it merely states what the Japanese price is when converted to USD.

Comes with HDMI too... (1)

bangenge (514660) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159387)

So now, they've changed their stance, and they're including the HDMI output. According to http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pag econtent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jp.playstat ion.com%2Finfo%2Frelease%2Fnr_20060922_ps3_hdmi.ht ml [altavista.com] this link. The translation's bad, but it will suffice, I hope.

Hmm... Sounds like it's getting to be a better bargain. Not necessarily a good one, but a better one compared to the original price.

"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (4, Interesting)

MrChom (609572) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159401)

I hear "PS3 price cut" so then I look at the price of all the major consoles in Japan:
Wii... 25,000 yen...
360... 29,800 yen...
PS3... 62,790 yen...

Now this is all for "Low End" models but forgive for saying that the PS3 price is still ringing the insanity alarm inside my head. The console is STILL more than double the price of either of its competitors (Yes, I know 360 isn't selling in Japan but Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon et al. may help to convince the Japanese market that 360 is worth it).

I've never been a big fan of Sony, never will be, but their recent list of faux pas, technical errors and the mockery of the whole is world is slowly making me think that one day they might just not bother with consoles...maybe not this generation, or the next....but soon...and for the rest of my life hopefully.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (2, Insightful)

spindizzy (34680) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159469)

Except that the new price announced is:

PS3... 47,600 yen

Which as the article states makes the PS3 cheaper than a core XBOX 360 and HD-DVD addon which doesn't include a HD. Seems like competitive pricing there.

Sony will have done market research to find the best price (for them) to sell the PS3. Time will tell how good this strategy is...

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

Don_dumb (927108) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159481)

That they haven't given any price cuts for the US and Europe suggests that they will try a similar trick closer to release in those markets, to attempt to create some goodwill at the time time as the hype.
Or they will just screw us over because the "fanboys will buy enough" principle may have more weight in the West. I dont know if that is true but it may be what SonyEurope and US Sony (not sure the official name) is thinking.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (4, Interesting)

Duds (100634) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159520)

It makes it cheaper than a Core 360 and a Ferrari too. Don't add optional accessories that people might not want.to try and make the PS3 seem cheaper.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159607)

You're right. I don't think anyone would want the ugly external HD-DVD drive. But you can bet Microsoft will stick an internal HD-DVD in their next revision of the 360. I expect they'll also want to include HDMI and some other bits and pieces to close the gap with the PS3. HD-DVD still won't be any use to games though, unlike Blu-Ray.

Anyway, for Japan at least, the basic PS3 is almost the same price as the XBox premium which isn't bad going at all.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1, Troll)

powerlord (28156) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160177)

But you can bet Microsoft will stick an internal HD-DVD in their next revision of the 360. I expect they'll also want to include HDMI and some other bits and pieces to close the gap with the PS3. But you can bet Microsoft will stick an internal HD-DVD in their next revision of the 360. I expect they'll also want to include HDMI and some other bits and pieces to close the gap with the PS3.


If they do this, what will it do for the idea that all consoles are the same? (Effectively it would be creating an XBox720, or some other absurd name)

Also, how would current customers with "last rev" equipment react to the idea that they need to purchase a new console to get the new do-dads that the system currently ships with ... standard. (unless of course there is an upgrade path, like with the HD-DVD player, but probably not an HDMI port) It could tick off quite a few people and it make make Sony's move seem better:

Sony: "Pay for it all up front. Yeah, it might cost more now, but the hardware isn't going to appreciably change"
MS: "Pay us cheaper now. Yeah, the hardware will change and you'll have to buy it again for a higher total, but you keep re-buying our OS ... right?"

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1, Redundant)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160215)

Microsoft isn't going to be putting out HD-DVD games. Any game that can play on any future Xbox 360 will play on the current ones. Any HD-DVD drives that are included or available for the 360 will be for playing movies only.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

HaggiZ (68526) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159992)

"Sony will have done market research to find the best price (for them) to sell the PS3."

If that is the case, just why exactly do we have this variation in the price now? If by "market research" you mean "consumer/press backlash", then maybe you are right.

It seems more and more often Sony have shown that their strategy is poorly thought out. I couldn't care less about them as a company, I'd like it for PS3 to be at least moderately successful though even if it is just to keep the others honest and keep looking for new areas of innovation.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

BeShaMo (996745) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159479)

El cheapo PS3 is been slashed to 49,980 yen in Japan.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159485)

There is a possibility that the PS3 really is that good. Its paper specs really are pretty impressive. Perhaps it will live up to the hype.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (5, Funny)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159763)

There's also the possibility that I will be hit by a falling sasquatch tied to a unicorn after they have suddently come into existance from a random collision of a large number of atoms.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159775)

Holy shit I wish I had mod points right now, that was fucking classic.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (5, Funny)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159781)

Happened to me last week.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

steveo777 (183629) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160068)

Does that mean I have to buy a PS3 now?

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160164)

Well, you could wait for one to spontaneously come into existence due to a collision of a large number of atoms.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (2, Interesting)

ArwynH (883499) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159502)

Well, the 62,790 yen PS3 now will cost 49,980 yen. I doubt that includes tax btw.

On a related note 50,000 yen is my current bugget for end-of-year console spending. So now it's either a PS3 + 1 controller or Wii + 2 Wii-motes, 1 nunchuck, 1 classic controller, 4 games and 5000 yen to spend on classics. Let's see... um... well, my choice is pretty obvious, but TGS opens to the public tomorrow, so Sony has 1 last chance to convince me (and others) to buy the PS3 over the Wii.

Ok, it's a small chance, but a chance none the less

360? Japan? New games? You have to goto the 2nd hand section in my local games shop to find 360 games there. The 360 demo box standing outside has been converted to a ps2 demo box. I doubt new games or even droping the 360's price below 10,000 will help MS in Japan now.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160061)

Sony should never have called this thing the Playstation 3. They should have built it and billed it as a whole new product wholly unrelated to console gaming because, frankly, that's what it really is. It's a home entertainment system that's built more along the lines of competition with Windows Media Center PCs than it is direct competition to the Wii or 360.

As a $600 high def media center that's also capable of playing video games, it's not a bad deal, really. As a $600 game console capable of playing Bluray high definition movies, it's a pretty crappy deal.

It's not that they necessarily built an unconvincing piece of technology, it's that they apparently don't understand what, exactly, it is that they actually built.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

BJH (11355) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160114)

It does include tax. Pre-tax price is 47600 yen.

Why does Microsoft continue to try? (2, Interesting)

EComni (998601) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160303)

360? Japan? New games? You have to goto the 2nd hand section in my local games shop to find 360 games there. The 360 demo box standing outside has been converted to a ps2 demo box. I doubt new games or even droping the 360's price below 10,000 will help MS in Japan now.


I'm still not sure why Microsoft has such a hard-on for losing in Japan. The original XBox was a dismal failure in Japan, but it was a pretty solid yet distant second place in just about every other major market in the world. The ONLY reason why there's this pointless debate about "which console was #2 last generation" was because the XBox failed so miserably in Japan.

According to an AP story not too long ago, the 360 has sold 150,000 units in Japan, but 5 million units worldwide. Going by the fact that they still lose money on every unit purchased, all Japan amounts to is a big money sink with absolutely no prospect of obtaining a good marketshare percentage.

The PS3 dropping its price is the 360's Japanese death knell. I don't understand why Microsoft keeps trying over there; WHY exactly is Japan "must-win"? Developers? If the 360 holds a firm number one spot in North America and Europe, wouldn't Playstation-friendly Japanese developers be willing to develop for the 360, especially with the PS3 set to get trounced by the Wii in Japan and possibly not be a market leader anywhere? Is impossible world domination THAT much more important to them than actually making some money? Why doesn't Microsoft take a page from Nintendo and just focus on trying to make a profit for once. Concentrate on markets that actually want your product and cut your losses. That means exiting Japan ASAP.

I live in the US where the XBox brand is relatively popular and I plan to own a 360. But I don't want to purchase a console that won't be supported in the future by a cash-strapped manufacturer because they were too stupid to stop throwing money away in another country in a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS lost cause.

I'd really like to hear other possibly more informed opinions about this, because I seriously don't know what's what.

But it does seem like the Wii will stomp all over Japan. This next-generation is looking very interesting.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159580)

The low-end PS3 is more comparable to the high-end XBox 360. It's lacking a wireless controller, but otherwise they're mostly at parity.

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159803)

I thought even the low-end PS3's controller was wireless. Did this change, then?

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (1)

ecuador_gr (944749) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159778)

From TFA the new price of PS3 is just 49,980 NOT EVEN TWICE THE Wii!!!
Wow, that's peanuts... around 200 pounds of peanuts to be precise...
Now everyone will get one... in Japan! ;)

Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it... (2, Interesting)

donaldm (919619) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159783)

The price drop if (and I mean IF!!) it occurs across all countries would make the PS3 basic (with HDMI) a very attractive machine. Now before I get flamed lets look are the announcement.

The 20GB version will cost 49,980 yen (EUR 335 / GBP 225), down from 62,790 yen (EUR 421 / GBP 283), Kutaragi said.

Now doing some currency calculations (I live in Australia) and the above translates to AU$570.00 and adding 10% GST and most likely some other tariffs (assume 30% overall - a ripoff I know) then the retail price in Australia is approx AU$741.00 . Now this is not bad considering the original PS2 retailed at AU$730.00 and was highly successful.

Many organisations seem think the build costs of the PS3 is anything from US$700 to US800 however Sony is not talking and why should they. It is easy to cost an item if you do know what the manufacturer charges but it is not so easy when you try to put a manufactures cost on the item. If you control the process and Sony does, then the overall manufacturing cost to you is fairly small. If you have looked at an electronics manufacturing plant it is very difficult for an outsider to guess manufacturing costs correctly.

Try guessing costs for the Cell Chip and this gets so much harder, however I do know that the new generation machines use Silicon on Insulator (SOI) which currently costs about US$1200 per 300mm diameter wafer, however this will come down dramatically with volume usage. An educated guess at about 20% to 30% yield brings the Cell Chip manufacture cost from US$30 to US$18, even this is a guess because I don't know what the processing cost of actually creating the Cell Chips on the wafer are. You also have to remember that the Cell Chip is jointly developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba who all have vested interests in making this chip profitable and these people do control the manufacturing process.

Now what is the overall cost of the BluRay player to the manufacture? again unless you actually know the costs you can only guess. Assume SOI again and a 4 square mm laser and assuming a 40% yield and an overall processing cost of 100% on each SOI wafer and you get approx US$0.40, now how much to actually make the mechanics? Well if DVD's are anything to go by then assume say 100% more expensive then you get a US$40 to US$60 cost.

If anyone has better figures (not hearsay from journalists who most likely don't even know what a resistor is) please publish them.

Before I hear about "Console makers make a loss on their consoles", that is an Urban Myth since Nintendo and Sony (maybe initially) did not make a loss on the Gamecube, PS1 or PS2. The only company that has done this is Microsoft (approx US$4B to date) with their Xbox. I am not sure of the Xbox 360 loss since reports are contradictory but take a look at the following URL:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9085 [gamasutra.com]

The only new machine Australia is going to see this year is the Wii and that will sell for AU$400 (US$301) which IMHO will sell well but I don't see the price of the games being that much different than the Xbox 360's (can't compare the PS3 yet) if the previous game prices are anything to go by. In fact I have found the Nintendo Gamecube games don't drop as much over time as the other console games.

Still games are a personal choice and while the majority of games will be ported to each console, the choice of a particular console will allow you to play that consoles exclusive games.

Good choice of words... (4, Funny)

asb (1909) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159406)

For some weird reason I like the statement "even less expensive" very much.

Why cheaper in Japan? (1)

atezun (755568) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159434)

You would think they'd make the console cheaper in areas where there is likely to be fiecer competition such as North America or Europe (Especially as a way to make up for the delayed launch) rather than in Japan where the console is going to be bought for the fact it's Japanese alone. But then again, who am I to question the infallilable logic of Mr. Kutaragi?

Re:Why cheaper in Japan? (2, Interesting)

kellererik (307956) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159681)

It's not about being cheaper in Japan, it's about getting as much DRM as possible into the Japanese households. Just imagine a lot of PS3s without (gasp) copy-protection. The movie industry would be forced to, either sell Blue-Ray disks willing to output HD-signals to TV-sets without checking for an active DRM, or deal with thousands of angry customers feeling cheated. OK, now they have been cheated into buying PS3s with DRM, which will - in the not to distant future - not allow them to use the product they bought with their first- or second-gen HD-TV.

Re:Why cheaper in Japan? (3, Informative)

Mitaphane (96828) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159707)

The Japanese aren't willing to jump on the PS3 just because it's from their country. Many think the console is over priced(a Famitsu poll I think showed it around 70%). From what I've read, polls and Nikko Citigroup, most people are predicting that the Wii is going to be the market leader in Japan. The XBox360 is a non issue over there so if Sony is hoping to have a chance for market dominance in Japan a price drop to a reasonable level will have to be it. I really wouldn't be surprised if they anounced a price drop here. After a string of bad news coming from Sony, they need something to show that they aren't completely inept.

Re:Why cheaper in Japan? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159773)

Losing Japan would mean losing many Japanese developers that make games people traditionally associate with the Playstation name. Who'd buy a PS3 if games like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Solid were suddently exclusive to another console? US developers aren't such a big deal, they're more likely to make multiplatform titles. And who'd court European developers?

Re:Why cheaper in Japan? (1)

Lex-Man82 (994679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160101)

Well I would court Rockstar North if I thought for a minute they'd marry me!!!

Supply and demand (1)

drwiii (434) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159450)

With these Japan-only price cuts, no region locks, an earlier launch date, and what looks to be a disastrous US launch situation, where do you think all these Japanese PS3s will end up on launch day? And what will that do to the early adopter market in Japan?

Re:Supply and demand (1)

RiskyChris (999242) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159512)

where do you think all these Japanese PS3s will end up on launch day?
These PS3s for the most part will NOT end up in America. I preordered a Japanese DS Lite over 2 weeks before the Japanese launch date (early March) from an import shop. My order was made roughly February 23rd, and I received my white DS Lite in the third week of April. If it took me that long to receive a DSL after 100s of thousands of units sold, what are the chances that many of the 100k Japanese PS3s will make it to US shore?

Re:Supply and demand (2, Informative)

iainl (136759) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159819)

All what Japanese PS3? They're only getting 100,000 of them. The US is a slightly larger market, but not 4 times as large, so expect the situation to be even worse over there.

Re:Supply and demand (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160436)

Just ship them with a power plug that only works in Japan and do not come out the us power plug / pack in till it's the us launch day.

Disappointing generation (3, Insightful)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159456)

The Wii could be an outright failure. Yah, Nintendo fanboys will boast that they havn't played a console in years even though they have a gamecube and 12 different mario games for it, and internet hype says "oh my godz ta Wii!" which further proves the Wii may be the Snakes on a Plane of consoles. Makes a little bit of money, but eventually the hype doesn't live up. The Wii controller may be just a gimmick, and a few months after the console release we'll see if it truly lives up to the hype. But anyone saying they will buy a Wii without even playing one first is just as much of a sheep and fanboy as a final fantasy droolboy. Time will tell if it is worth buying a slightly souped up gamecube with a new controller. I may buy one just to play some gamecube games that I've missed out on though.

The PS3 will likely deliver the goods, but nevertheless is too expensive. In the end the only exclusives will be metal gear + 100 different japanese RPGs that we've all played different incarnations of dozens of times before.

And the 360 isn't faring much better. The most interesting titles are $5 arcade games (I may pick one up when settlers of cantan is released), and the best games that look good are not only released on the PC as well, but the PC version offers mods (looking at Oblivion and the upcoming Star trek: legacy). Perhaps I wouldn't be so disappointed with the 360 if I wasn't spoiled on xbox media center for my xbox.

Want to know the best bet right now if you havn't jumped onto the ps2/xbox/gamecube generation? Pick up an xbox original and mod it (which is actually not that difficult), install xbox media center, and not only play nes, snes, n64, tg16, genesis, MAME, etc games for free but you'll have an extensive library of great $5-$15 used games available to load onto the harddrive (or rent and steal if you are so inclined). Alot of the xbox games have 480p 16:9 if you have an HDTV, and the only exclusives you will really miss out on are a bunch of square-enix RPGs, which honestly you arn't missing out much on (seriously, did anyone play through more than 25 hours of dragon warrior VIII or kingdom hearts 2 without wanting to rip their eyeballs out?) and katamari damacy (which is a great game, but isn't alone worth getting a console for). Otherwise most games on the ps2 are available on the xbox, and the xbox is a bit more mod friendly (with xbox media center + emulators, etc).

I think what may happen is alot of the people who skipped out on the gamecube may just get a Wii to play gamecube games they missed out on. I actually hope Nintendo does well this generation and doesn't turn into another Sega. I'd hate for the only players in the field to be Sony and Microsoft.

Re:Disappointing generation (2, Insightful)

Dan Guisinger (15506) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159472)

The games everyone has been waiting for on the Xbox 360 are Gears of War and Halo 3. Those are the big upcoming titles. Gears of war comes out in 2 months, and there are hundreds on reserve at every store in my area, and the gameplay and graphics are just a big WOW when you see them.

Sure, games like Perfect Dark Zero sucked on the 360, but they are finally about to have their 2nd wind of games. Sony has such a convoluded development enviroment I'm sure it will take longer than a year for the really good Sony games to come out.

Also, as a note, last I read Microsoft had sold 6 million xbox 360 consoles in the last year; not bad considering no one had released very good games yet. Now that the platformers are coming, expect it to catch on even more. Microsoft expects to sell another 6 million by the end of the year; thats well before Halo 3 comes into the picture. There are strong rumors that they will add an internal HD-DVD model (for video only) at the highend to compete against sony. Price cuts and die shrinkage are all coming.

Whether or not you like Microsoft, they are in a very good position.

I personally own a 360, and also am planning on grabbing a Wii or two. Both are excellent systems, Sony on the other hand, while I had a PS1, I will never buy a PS3, that thing was engineered by a patent committee looking to force standards on the world; if it was really designed for games it wouldnt have had 2 major delays already (BlueRay standard, and now Blue laser shortages).

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159494)

I agree. The only reason I havn't picked up a 360 is I keep thinking "Ok, $400. Just what the hell am I going to play on it NOW?" and the only thing that came to mind is geometry wars, which is a great game, but not $400 worthy. Perhaps Lego Star Wars II but I get that essentially free for the xbox with a rental, and I heard the graphics arn't that much better. Burnout takedown is fun, but I already have that for the xbox, and it looks good enough.

Gears of War and Halo 3 look sweet, but am I going to buy a console NOW for games that will be released in months? I don't think so. The sad thing is if the 360 came with native divx and FLAC support I'd probably pick on up right now (as I have no desire to install windows xp media center).

Re:Disappointing generation (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159756)

The sad thing is if the 360 came with native divx and FLAC support I'd probably pick on up right now (as I have no desire to install windows xp media center).

Exactly. The 360 had a great potential for multimedia but was deliberately crippled to prop up Windows Media Center. I expect some flack at Microsoft thought "if we let this thing store and play movies then who is going to buy WMC? So let's cripple it so it only streams movies!".

One would hope that as Sony is more agnostic on video formats than MS that they might at least allow you to store files on the PS3 and possibly support several major codecs. They might not support Divx though simply because that is what most pirate content is in. But if Sony are really smart, they'd let people play their own ripped content while providing convenient access to their own video store.

Re:Disappointing generation (5, Insightful)

Aurisor (932566) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159935)

"One would hope that as Sony is more agnostic on video formats than MS"

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

*oh my god*

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*wipes tear from eye*

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159982)

JAJAJJAJAJJAJAJJAJAJJAJAJ
no mames

JAJAJJAJAJJAJAJJAJAJ
este guey esta loco.

"One would hope that as Sony is more agnostic on video formats than MS"
Yeah, the beta-minidisc-umd-stickproduo may have taught them something

but then again...

jajajaajajajajj
no mames

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

Jonny_eh (765306) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160087)

Reminds me of when Sony's 'mp3' players could only play ATRAC audio files. Also, the PS3 only plays Blu-ray, not HD-DVD, agnostic?

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160264)

But the Sony PSP can play MP3, ATRAC3plus, WMA and AAC. Not copy protected content, but the unprotected stuff. You can also rip DVDs, encode them with AVC upload them to the PSP to play. That is what I am referring to, not what physical discs it plays. Sony has also done some incredibly stupid things such as your example and the whole DRM CD debacle. Let's hope that they gotten a clue because its probably their last chance.

But as for HD-DVD, I'm sure that can be attributed to the fact that Sony co-invented Blu-Ray and simply can't support HD-DVD. If they did so, the HD-DVD would become the defacto standard and Sony would lose. But there is no "standard" yet. Both formats use the same video codecs and the same or similar standards for other things. I expect that players could support both formats in time. Personally I don't own an HDTV and don't care which format wins, however I do think that ultimately Blu-Ray will win. The PS3 will see to that unless MS pull a rabbit out of the hat and start shipping XBox 360s with internal HD-DVDs some time in the next 3 months. They're certainly not going to win with that rotten external HD-DVD player.

Re:Disappointing generation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160211)

You can in-fact play any video format (divx, xvid, etc) via the 360 media center. All you need is install Transcode360 (www.runtime360.com). Basically it transcodes your unsupported vid formats in real-time to a format that the 360 media center extender can play. Its fantastic.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

The GooMan (892098) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160363)

The only reason I haven't picked up a 360 is I don't have a HDTV.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159682)

Just a small revision to your numbers. MS has shipped over 6 million. The SOLD number somewhere between 2.1 and 2.5 million. The 360 so far is selling slower than the Xbox during the same time-frame and it had two competing consoles at the time. I'm not anti 360 (hell I will buy a 360 for GOW) but MS is failing atm with the 360 in the US just theres no other next gens to compare numbers with. Hell the PS2 is even outselling the 360. WTF is with that?

Re:Disappointing generation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160106)

Hell the PS2 is even outselling the 360. WTF is with that?

It's cheaper and has more and better games? Hardly a big shock that it sells. The Nintendo DS is outselling both, and that has even suckier graphics and a really tiny screen.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160291)

The PS2 would be expected to outsell the 360. It's 1/3 the cost and has a huge game library.

You have to remember that a lot of lower income families (specifically kids from these families) tend to lag a generation or two behind on their gaming consoles - these people aren't going to buy one until it gets close to $100. Heck when I was a kid I know that the NES had been out for 3-4 years before I got one. SNES about the same with me getting it a few years after release - one of my friends at school (circa 1992 or so) was still playing an Atari 2600 at the time.

One of my cousins has a few younger kids and they're still playing the Dreamcast that they only got because it was clearanced for $30 and all the games $5.

To this market segement (which is huge), the Xbox 360 and PS3 are just way too expensive toys - they're going to buy the older stuff and save some money.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160390)

I personally own a 360, and also am planning on grabbing a Wii or two. Both are excellent systems,

Now now, let's be honest here, while the 360 may be excellent, we don't know a damned thing about the Wii, aside from the marketing buzz, their demos, and the experiences from some select reviewers/testers. Time will tell if it really is as good as we all hope.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

cttforsale (803028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159917)

I agree with parent. Add to that, when I can mod an XBOX360 like an original xbox (i.e. copy and run games off of the HD, run emulators, XB Scripts, Other community made software etc.), I'll be getting an Xbox too. Make what you will of that.

Want homebrew? Get a Mac mini (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160020)

when I can mod an XBOX360 like an original xbox (i.e. copy and run games off of the HD, run emulators, XB Scripts, Other community made software etc.), I'll be getting an Xbox too.

Want a pre-modded *box to put on on top of your set? I suggest Apple's MacsBox [apple.com] : 600 USD plus controllers.

Re:Want homebrew? Get a Mac mini (1)

cttforsale (803028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160461)

Not really an XB360 now, is it?

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159937)

The Wii could be an outright failure.

Godzilla could be selling pennants at a Cubs game.

The PS3 will likely deliver the goods, but nevertheless is too expensive.

And the 360 isn't faring much better.

Everything sux don't it? Let's fire everyone.

You want to complain? Look at these shoes I've had them only a week and the soles are worn right through. If you complain nothing happens you might as well not bother. My back hurts and it's a really really fine day and I'm sick and tired of this...

Re:Disappointing generation (4, Insightful)

Yosho (135835) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160043)

Yah, Nintendo fanboys will boast that they havn't played a console in years even though they have a gamecube and 12 different mario games for it

Why would any console fanboy boast that they haven't played a console in years? That makes no sense at all.

But anyone saying they will buy a Wii without even playing one first is just as much of a sheep and fanboy as a final fantasy droolboy.

Except that many people have played Wiis at demos and verified that the controller works wonderfully. The only people who are calling it a "gimmick" nowadays are anti-fanboys. Besides that, there are plenty of people who would buy a Wii for the Virtual Console, regardless of whether the Wii games are any good.

Pick up an xbox original and mod it (which is actually not that difficult), install xbox media center, and not only play nes, snes, n64, tg16, genesis, MAME, etc games for free

If you don't like breaking multiple laws, sure. All of those ROMs aren't public domain, you know, and some of us prefer being in the legal when possible. You may say modding is "not that difficult," but a lot of people would argue that any difficulty is to much, especially when you can just plug in a Wii and go, legally.

Alot of the xbox games have 480p 16:9 if you have an HDTV

There are also a lot of Gamecube and PS2 games that support 16:9 and/or 480p. Your point?

seriously, did anyone play through more than 25 hours of dragon warrior VIII or kingdom hearts 2 without wanting to rip their eyeballs out?

Yes. What's the point of this statement, other than to troll? Should I flame all of the genres featured prominently on the Xbox that I don't enjoy, and presume that nobody else enjoys them, as well?

Otherwise most games on the ps2 are available on the xbox, and the xbox is a bit more mod friendly (with xbox media center + emulators, etc).

You could also argue that most of the Xbox's good games are available for the PC, not to mention all the emulators you can dream of.

I think what may happen is alot of the people who skipped out on the gamecube may just get a Wii to play gamecube games they missed out on.

Have you read any previous Slashdot discussions on the Wii? Almost nobody is buying a Wii because they want to play the Gamecube games they missed out on. Anybody who wants that can go pick up a Gamecube right now for $80 or less.

Re:Disappointing generation (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160206)

I agree in theory, but I'd chosen ps2 ;)

The more I read about Wii, the less I want one... I was 100% set on buying a Wii and a PS3 (money no issue if I really want one), both as soon as they come out, but now it looks like I'll just wait for the PS3 and skip the Wii - and hope someone creates a Wii emulator for PS3 soon ;)

As was said in Tokyo, open systems are the future! ;)

Re:Disappointing generation (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160268)

Pick up an xbox original and mod it (which is actually not that difficult), install xbox media center, and not only play nes, snes, n64, tg16, genesis, MAME, etc games for free but you'll have an extensive library of great $5-$15 used games available to load onto the harddrive (or rent and steal if you are so inclined).

So its ok to break the law as long as you have fun? You and those like you are to blame for DRM. I like many others buy and rent the games I play. I hope a lightning strike fries all of your consoles.

Ummmm say what? (1)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160319)

I think what may happen is alot of the people who skipped out on the gamecube may just get a Wii to play gamecube games they missed out on. I actually hope Nintendo does well this generation and doesn't turn into another Sega. I'd hate for the only players in the field to be Sony and Microsoft.

You *do* realize that, out of those three gaming companies/divisions (Nintendo worldwide, Sony Entertainment wordlwide, and Microsoft Home Entertainment), *NINTENDO* is the one the most in the black right now, right???

Microsoft is still way in the red, and Sony hasn't made much money at all this year since the 360 has been stealing PS2 sales and the PSP is a massive failure. Meanwhile Nintendo is still raking it in, as usual, with it's portable divison (DS sales are through the roof in every market).

If you don't believe me, look up the numbers.

PS3 Comes with HDMI, Cheaper in Japan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16159486)

Shouldn't that headline be "PS3 Cheaper... in Japan"

Re:PS3 Comes with HDMI, Cheaper in Japan (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159871)

No, the HDMI applies everywhere. The lower cost only applies in Japan....for now.

more bad marketing... (4, Insightful)

AceJohnny (253840) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159497)

Initially, Sony was worried that if they put the HDMI in the lower version, some would complain about having to pay for something they don't want. Apparently they realized people would be more upset without it.

So they misevaluated their market, and the media backlash made them change their minds? Shouldn't this be the kind of element that should've been identified earlier on? As largely mentioned earlier, if they're pushing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, it's pretty dumb to "forget" the HD output...

Wow, I keep being surprised by how their marketing department sucks. For a consumer-electronics company, I find this plainly catastrophic.

Or maybe the dept doesn't suck, but they're crushed under other interests, which is just as bad.

Re:more bad marketing... (2, Insightful)

Yonatanz (798506) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159513)

Remember the old saying, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

The more articles they get, the more the acronym "PS3" gets into people's minds.

In today's marketing media, companies plan their campaign so that they will "change their mind" a couple of times in order to achieve another slashdot/blog/newspaper article.

A so called bad-design-decision that gets some hype around it, is actually nothing more than a good-marketing-decision in disguise.

Re:more bad marketing... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159790)

I don't think there's any console gamer who doesn't know about the PS3 and even without any publicity a majority wouild have bought the thing no questions asked simply because they expect it to perform like the PS2 did. It's only this negative publicity that makes people doubt that Sony will have a huge lead next generation and look for alternatives.

Re:more bad marketing... (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160139)

Remember the old saying, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Yeah. It's about as true as that other fine old saying, "the moon is made of green cheese".

For example, consider the hypothetical case where a prominent politician is implicated in a child-porn ring, but never prosecuted due to lack of evidence. Do you think all the publicity he will get, as a suspected pedophile, is going to improve his chances of re-election? If there were no such thing as bad publicity, it would. Somehow I doubt it, though...

Re:more bad marketing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160379)

A so called bad-design-decision that gets some hype around it, is actually nothing more than a good-marketing-decision in disguise.

I think you may be attributing to genius what is actually the combined result of several stages of random stupidity.

Amazing marketing (1, Interesting)

Forkenhoppen (16574) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159604)

This is actually an example of very good marketing. Others have touched on it, but I can think of a couple of reasons why this is working out better than expected for Sony.

1) They probably wanted to put out all of the consoles with HDMI anyways. As Kutaragi said, they didn't want people to feel like they were paying for something they'd never use. This is a powerful statement, in my mind, because it shows that Sony was willing to put out the PS3, knowing that they would be fragmenting the HD market into two tiers; those with HDMI and those without. (Yes, there will still be people who don't have HDMI-enabled sets, but that's not the point.) With a tiered market, the most widely-available Blu-Ray player would not be guaranteed to have HDMI, which would pose a huge stumbling block to enabling the ICT later on.

Now, they can just tell people to go out and buy HDMI cables when they do. Your Toshiba HDTV doesn't have HDMI inputs? That's too bad, you should've bought a Sony set; all Sony sets come with HDMI.. (If that isn't true today, you can be sure it will be soon.)

2) In effect, they've managed to convince consumers to go out and pick up HDMI-equipped HDTVs, etc., without having to do any 'sway' marketting. There was always the chance, with an HDMI-less PS3, that people would buy so many of them instead of the HDMI-equipped one that media companies would be hard-pressed to use the ICT in any great numbers for fear of a backlash. But if everyone's going to have an HDMI-ready player anyways, suddenly this huge obstacle disappears.

So all I can say is that consumers have done more for getting other consumers to buy into copy protected media than Sony ever could have. This is an amazing coup for Sony's marketing, and I would call it a very shrewd business decision.

In short, this is a huge win for Sony.

Re:Amazing marketing (1)

cubicledrone (681598) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159919)

In short, this is a huge win for Sony.

Yeah. It's an incredible achievement to win when you have total control, overwhelming market share and multi-billion dollar budgets. Kind of like a football game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and East Dirtroad Junior College.

Re:Amazing marketing (1)

Jussi K. Kojootti (646145) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160017)

Sorry for slashing your coments like this, but I just don't get your point:

As Kutaragi said, they didn't want people to feel like they were paying for something they'd never use.
...

Your Toshiba HDTV doesn't have HDMI inputs? That's too bad, you should've bought a Sony set
...Umm?? Those statements just don't belong in the same argument. I do not have a HDMI-TV, and when I buy a next generation console I will feel like Sony is trying to make me pay for something I will not use.
In effect, they've managed to convince consumers to go out and pick up HDMI-equipped HDTVs, etc., without having to do any 'sway' marketting.

No they haven't. They might be trying to, but success is far from guaranteed. I've been a Playstation guy so far, but the current pricing of PS3 disqualifies it this time -- I'm just not interested. So, they still have to convince me on HDMI and they lost a customer.

In short, this is a huge win for Sony.

So you say. I am an example of a long-time customer that just isn't interested in this offering -- we'll see if there are more people like me.

Re:Amazing marketing (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160155)

2) In effect, they've managed to convince consumers to go out and pick up HDMI-equipped HDTVs

My first reaction to Sony dropping HDMI from cheaper units was: "Huh?? Sony is passing-up the promotion of their new copy protection scheme? Can't be!"

Now your message puts it into nice perspective. Threatening to take it out made a chorus of resolution-fiends sing "Gimme!"... and lo, Sony is really gonna give it to 'em and HDMI is now cherished without reservation by high-end gamers.

Re:more bad marketing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160188)

So they misevaluated their market, and the media backlash made them change their minds? Shouldn't this be the kind of element that should've been identified earlier on? As largely mentioned earlier, if they're pushing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, it's pretty dumb to "forget" the HD output...

I'm willing to bet that it wasn't the media backlash that made them change their minds. Sony is using the PS3 to push Blu-Ray adoption and doesn't want millions of analogue Blu-Ray players on the market. Consider the backlash that will occur (in mid 2007) when torrents of Blu-Ray movies are easily downloadable and the "Blu-Ray group" decides that this is because of the Analogue hole so they enable the image constraint tolken. Now imagine how bad it would be if 2 Million Blu-Ray players (or approximately 1/3 of all Blu-Ray players) are going to be effected by this decision.

Trust me, SCE decided that HDMI was expensive and would not be used in their gaming functions so they dropped it in the lower end version; Sony Pictures decided that SCE is now the bitch of Sony and would do whatever they wanted.

Re:more bad marketing... (2, Insightful)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160514)

Forget what HD output? Component video cables provide equal (or better) quality output to HDMI (especially to those of us with CRT HDTV sets). HDMI is only barely interesting for newer resolutions and encryption (ugh) and its ability to carry audio as well (which no HiFi geek or audiophile wants anyway).

I'm currently using [mikebabcock.ca] (and plan to continue using) component video cables to my TV and coax digital audio cables to my receiver for the near future. When I buy a new receiver with DTS Master [dts.com] audio support, I'll be going to new audio cables. If and when LCD or Plasma TVs look as good at variable resolutions as my CRT, I might use HDMI for video only.

Yes yes, I know, in a few years, some discs might be encoded so that I need HDCP to play them on my TV at all. For the reasonable future, it would seem that movie companies care more about sales figures though and won't be setting that bit.

Did they retool their production line for this? (1)

maynard (3337) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159730)

They basically just threw away a prototype motherboard and production line only weeks away from the delivery date. Talk about expensive!!!

Re:Did they retool their production line for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16159929)

They basically just threw away a prototype motherboard and production line only weeks away from the delivery date. Talk about expensive!!!

I'll take a wild guess and say that both versions of the PS3 use the same motherboard. They just decided to add the HDMI connector on both versions instead of just the more expensive one.

But I'd also guess that even a small change like that isn't cheap.

Re:Did they retool their production line for this? (1)

maynard (3337) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159958)

The $499 PS3 supposedly also lacked wireless 802.11g and a flash card reader. I was under the impression that there were two motherboards, one for the $499 and the other for the $599 unit. But, honestly, I can't find a reference for that. So - maybe I'm wrong.

But still, even if it's just a retooling job on the assembly floor, this has got to hurt Sony.

Re:Did they retool their production line for this? (1)

BJH (11355) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160150)

The 802.11bg and SD/CF/memory stick ports are an optional addon for the cheaper version of the PS3.
The HDMI output could not be added later, but I'd say that the grandparent is correct - they had intended to just put in a blind port, which they'd now decided to give up on.

Note how few of these there will be (2, Insightful)

robosmurf (33876) | more than 7 years ago | (#16159985)

The price drop only affects the Japanese release, and then only on the lower-end model.

Sony have already stated that there will only be 100,000 PS3s at launch in Japan. They have also stated that the vast majority of these will be the higher end version. Thus the price cut will be on a very small number of units.

Re:Note how few of these there will be (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160559)

Don't forget that the high-end PS3 will have open pricing in Japan, so those 100k units will be priced through the roof if there's high demand for them.

OK the Sony hate is officially overboard... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160058)

Sony announces a PRICE DROP and all 90% of engadget can do is say is
"it's still not cheaper than the base 360 or Wii"
"...they misread the market, what idiots."
Come on people IF (...and I mean IF) they bring this price drop to the states and Europe MS is in a world of hurt:

360 Premium
DVD Drive
Component out
20g hard drive
$399.00

Core PS3
Blu-Ray Drive
HDMI out
20g hard drive
$428

What person in their right mind is not going to pay $30 extra bucks (not $170, and in a single enclosure) for high def movie play back if they have the money to buy a $400 game system. IMO...not many.

The guys up in Redmond better pray this price drop stays in Japan.

Re:OK the Sony hate is officially overboard... (1)

luther349 (645380) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160174)

true a core ps3 vs a 360 platnum is price ssems a bit more competiv now. they should match the 360 price if they cant beat it.

Look at what you get for the price (0)

DivsFan (1004464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160176)

The comparison against the Wii and the Xbox 360 are fair, but with the PS3 you get so much more. First of all you are getting a High Definition DVD player for both models. Xbox is releasing one that hooks into the 360 and selling it for $200. Wii won't have this at all. If you buy any High Def DVD player now the cheapest you can get in much more than the High-End PS3. With the PS3 you're basically getting a 3.2 GHz computer with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and Blue-Ray. You can get Wi-Fi for the Xbox360 as well but once again it's extra. I don't think Sony is getting this wrong. They are marketing to PC gamers who want to play console games. If you don't mind low end graphics and lack of functionality stick with cheap. If you want cheap then stick with Wii, but if you stick with Wii you won't have nearly the same features. If you want better go with XBOX 360, but with XBOX 360 you'll pay more for the features you want. In the end Sony is going to lose money selling the PS3 as it costs more to produce then what they are selling for. They will however make gobs of money selling the kinds of games people love to play.

WOW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160229)

Look what else you get with the PS3. The same games you've been playing for 20 years!

Sorry, but Wii it is for me.

Re:WOW! (1)

kyouteki (835576) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160478)

I like the games I've been playing for 20 years, thank you very much!

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

capuel (1004468) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160314)

The fact things I don't need are optional is what makes the 360 the better choice. If I don't need WiFi or an HD player, why should I pay for it? Also, the PS3 may be the cheaper BluRay player, but it is not the cheapest in the HD DVD market. HD DVD players are well below $600.

Re:Look at what you get for the price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160318)

First of all you are getting a High Definition DVD player for both models

Assuming you want and High-Definition DVD player, I don't even have a HDTV (because I have a perfectly good TV and only have access to a handful of channels that occasionally broadcast in HDTV) and see no point in buying into an expensive format that has no movies on it. On top of all of that I would be reluctant to buy a PS3 simply because it has a first generation Blu-Ray drive in it; as anyone who owned a first generation DVD drive will tell you, compatibility on those drives is remarkably low and they broke very easily.

If you buy any High Def DVD player now the cheapest you can get in much more than the High-End PS3

If by "much more than the High-End PS3" you mean the exact same cost as the Low end PS3 then you'd be correct. I know both Toshiba and RCA have HD-DVD players for $499.99 which are available today, and may even have a price cut (or be on sale) by the holiday season this year.

They are marketing to PC gamers who want to play console games. If you don't mind low end graphics and lack of functionality stick with cheap.

If they're trying to be the "Second System" shouldn't they be pricing themselves into a more affordable price range?

The fact is that Sony has previously mentioned that most consoles are purchased after they hit the $199.99 price point. Sony (over the past 2 generations) had an technically inferior product and dominated by targeting the mass market audience; the majority of gamers didn't care about the lower quality graphics on the PS2 but adopted it because everyone already owned a PS2 and all deveopers where making games for the PS2. The PS3 will probably not sell that well over the initial 12 months (because of the High Price and Shortages) so it is likely that they will be in third place worldwide come November 2007; third party developers will be reluctant to give exclusive support because of how poorly it has sold so it will get less games, the lack of games will then be mentioned as why people are not buying a PS3.

If you want better go with XBOX 360, but with XBOX 360 you'll pay more for the features you want.

The only features I want is games I want to play ... So far the XBox 360 has 2 (I still don't own one), I see 6 games to be that will be readily available on the Wii, and 0 for the PS3 (until November 2004). As far as I see, I get the most features off of the Wii at a much lower price.

They will however make gobs of money selling the kinds of games people love to play.

No ... That's Nintendo (N.I.N.T.E.N.D.O); Sony has always made money off of licencing fees of third party games if they really made that many good games there would be something worth playing on a PSP.

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

DivsFan (1004464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160404)

If you don't want all the features the the PS3 is going to have then don't buy it. Stick with XBOX360. Sony is trying to differentiate it's product with features people don't normally have. Keep in mind also that the PS2 has been around for 4-5 years so we can assume the PS3 will be around for some time to come. I can almost bet that within a couple years almost everyone will have a HD TV. Above all else technology is growing and there is a curve. Microsoft placed their product on the curve for what people are looking for now. Sony on the other hand is placing their product ahead of the curve. If you bought a computer that's ahead of the curve you will pay more. Yes the markup is more but the parts that are in it cost more too. Also, Nintendo has already said they aren't trying to compete with Microsoft and Sony, they are trying to hit a different market. People have different ideas for what they are willing to spend money. Just because one product seems to expensive for you doesn't mean it's a bad product.

Re:Look at what you get for the price (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16160321)

Fanboys are funny.

You're getting a BluRay player, this is true. however, there's no guarantee that the 600 dollars you're spending on that BluRay player is going to be useful a year down the road, as there's a format war going on that HD-DVD seems to be winning. With the late release of the PS3, and HD-DVD coming to the 360, there's even more of a chance that the BluRay player will be all but useless. It's a moot point anyway. If people want a BluRay player, simple free market laws say the other companies competing in the BluRay market will drop their prices to compete with Sony. Sony won't lower their price, but I'm sure at that point, I'll be able to pick up a BluRay for 3-400 dollars.

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160330)

the fact that you can buy an HD-DVD player for $332 (just check froogle), which is much cheaper than the PS3 makes me question every other "fact" you bring up.

the only question now is whether you are an astroturfer or a fanboy.

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

abaddononion (1004472) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160445)

They are marketing to PC gamers who want to play console games.
Whether or not this is true, I cannot contend to. However, it seems to me to be an awfully narrow niche audience to go for at the cost of alienating anyone else who might have been interested. I mean, I am a long time Sony fan, myself. I went through the Playstation, PS1(slim), Playstation 2, and PS2(slim), all very happily. But then the PSP came out... oh my, a pretty handheld. Gah, it's awfully expensive for a handheld. Wait, it has wireless? and plays movies? Hmm. Wait a minute, I forgot. I dont care that my handheld can play movies. Especially since they're on a proprietary format that Sony controls all rights to. I know Im not alone in this sentiment, either. A recent article I spotted somewhere (can't remember where, may have been slashdot itself, sorry for the lack of a link), said that UMD movie sales were not as high as Sony had expected. Now, I suppose it's fairly safe to say Blu-Ray will be different, just because it is going to be at least near-highest available quality (if it ever surpasses HD-DVD), and there will probably actually be other Blu-ray disc players, there's a real chance that it'll work out. But it doesn't change the mindset going into the whole thing. I mean, when Sony first said, "We don't want the PS3 to be a console. We want it to be a SUPER COMPUTER" (paraphrasing, obviously), I was thrilled. I thought this sounded like it was going to be a fun and exciting new console, with all kinds of mysteries. And now, it seems that the more I hear about it, the less marvelous mysteries there are, and the more we're just paying near-computer level prices (hey, catch a good sale, you can get a new fully featured AMD laptop for those irrational people.)

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

abaddononion (1004472) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160476)

Sorry, I butchered my last post with a misplaced <. Should have known better, I'm a webprogrammer. Doh. Let me try again, if you'll all be so forgiving:

They are marketing to PC gamers who want to play console games.
Whether or not this is true, I cannot contend to. However, it seems to me to be an awfully narrow niche audience to go for at the cost of alienating anyone else who might have been interested. I mean, I am a long time Sony fan, myself. I went through the Playstation, PS1(slim), Playstation 2, and PS2(slim), all very happily. But then the PSP came out... oh my, a pretty handheld. Gah, it's awfully expensive for a handheld. Wait, it has wireless? and plays movies? Hmm. Wait a minute, I forgot. I dont care that my handheld can play movies. Especially since they're on a proprietary format that Sony controls all rights to.

I know Im not alone in this sentiment, either. A recent article I spotted somewhere (can't remember where, may have been slashdot itself, sorry for the lack of a link), said that UMD movie sales were not as high as Sony had expected. Now, I suppose it's fairly safe to say Blu-Ray will be different, just because it is going to be at least near-highest available quality (if it ever surpasses HD-DVD), and there will probably actually be other Blu-ray disc players, there's a real chance that it'll work out. But it doesn't change the mindset going into the whole thing. I mean, when Sony first said, "We don't want the PS3 to be a console. We want it to be a SUPER COMPUTER" (paraphrasing, obviously), I was thrilled. I thought this sounded like it was going to be a fun and exciting new console, with all kinds of mysteries. And now, it seems that the more I hear about it, the less marvelous mysteries there are, and the more we're just paying near-computer level prices (hey, catch a good sale, you can get a new fully featured AMD laptop for <600 bucks). I mean, honestly, I was more impressed by the channel mechanism on the Wii than anything I've heard about PS3's implementation so far.

I think I have an analogous situation that might amuse some /. reader or another. About 6 months ago, the apartment complex I was living at, which is a little high on rent but comes with free utilities, sent out a letter saying, "We know our heating and AC system is archaic and poor. We're working to upgrade it to a new central heating and air system." So I was thrilled by this. For 5 months, they were in mid-construction on this crap, and it seemed as if there were entire weeks that they weren't doing anything, just had left a mess all around and sometimes IN my apartment. Finally, it was all done. The new unit was in, and was much better than the old. And then, 3 months later, I went down and was talking to the complex owners, and they casually let slip "Yeah, next month everyone starts paying their own electric bill." and I said, "What??" and they said "It's the price you pay for the new heating and air system." Now, personally, I moved into this complex for the free utilities, I didnt want the new heating and air system THAT badly. It's not the nicest complex in the world, and as I said, it's a little overpriced. So now, Im just living in a shabby, overpriced apartment, which a "nice" heating and air system, which Im paying a fortune for because these apartments have crap for insulation. Needless to say, I'm seeking alternative living conditions now.

My point, though, is when you're selling something specific, say, a console, and you start flying off and saying, "oh, we'll have this, and have this, and have this, and have this", it's great and makes everyone happy. Until they find out you're still CHARGING them for all of those things. When Im looking at the next generation, I want to buy a CONSOLE. If there's a Blu-ray (or even better, HD-DVD, since it's not proprietary) player thrown in there extra, then hell yeah. If Im paying 100 extra dollars for that feature... nah, dont need it. Is it cheaper than buying a separate HD-DVD player? Sure. Still doesnt mean I feel that I need or want it at this time. And personally, in my experiences with the PS2, the emulated DVD playing capabilities give more trouble than normal solely-DVD players anyway.

Like I said, I used to be a long-standing Sony (playstation department only. their music branch has always been the devil) lover, but now... the Wii is looking mighty fine to me. Because... it's a console. (and screw anything made my Microsoft. That's right. I'm one of those irrational people.)

Re:Look at what you get for the price (1)

ricera10 (932325) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160469)

If I had redundant mod points, I'd mod them to this post. This has been beaten to death on many forums across the internet...

Arcade Consoles (1)

aplusjimages (939458) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160252)

What if Sony is changing their focus from a home console to an arcade console? Bring people back to the arcades at the malls, but now the consoles will be linked to the net. Sounds like a pretty good idea. I haven't been to an arcade since PS1.

The article does mention they want to put 15000 units in stores for people to pay and play.

This is pretty much what Sony has to do (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 7 years ago | (#16160490)

...and more.

Despite the price drop being announced for Japan for now, I seriously doubt they'll stick to the $500/600 prices for the US models given the importance of this console to their long term plans and the competition from Microsoft and Nintendo.

I also don't doubt that the day PS3s come out in stores will be the day Microsoft does something dramatic with the XBox 360 to make it even more attractive. Maybe they'll ship "Revision 2", with HDMI and an HD-DVD drive, in each box without raising prices. Maybe they'll remove the low end model and ship the existing high end model in its place, at the low end price. There's a whole bunch of ways they can play it.

This round in the console war is going to do serious financial damage to Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo at least will be ok given they're producing something that clearly enough people will want to be profitable, and that isn't being sold at a loss. Sony and Microsoft, however, need to play this game for five years, with production costs unlikely to drop in line with retail prices. Sony has to hope that they can get enough revenues from increased sales of HDTVs (but how to measure that increase will be difficult) and long term entrenchment of Bluray to mitigate some of the costs due to them. Microsoft doesn't even have that to fall back on, and I suspect they'll be damaged the most by whatever comes out, especially if they're getting a three pronged attack from Nintendo, Sony, and Apple (iTV.)

Right now, I think Microsoft has the most to lose. And as a result, I think it's going to compete hardest with Sony.

My predictions:

- Bluray will be the next Laserdisc. DVDs will continue to be the VHS.
- Nintendo will be in first or third place, but their marketshare will simply not matter in the over-all scheme of things. They'll be profitable, of course.
- Sony will probably narrowly beat out Microsoft, but both will emerge from the fight limping.
- There will be no "XBox 3". Apple will annihalate Microsoft's attempts at entering the media STB market. Given this leaves them largely as a games console and games infrastructure manufacturer, Microsoft will see Nintendo as their only "equal" competitor when what they wanted to do was take down Sony. The focus on consoles would also undermine (as it is today) their PC operating system business. They'd be better of licencing common infrastructure technologies to their rivals.

But a lot can change in five years.

Disclaimer: I like Nintendo and like what they're doing. I'm not a fan of Microsoft as the epitome of lock-in, proprietary, technologies, and I dislike Sony even more because of their media business's recent tactics and their failure to reform the industry towards open systems. But I'm trying to be objective.

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