×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Gran Tourismo HD Cars Sold Seperately?

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the next-gen-equals-cha-ching dept.

329

KDR_11k writes "1up reports on a Famitsu article discussing the future of microtransactions for PS3. According to the article, Gran Tourismo HD will require all cars to be bought via microtransactions. More specifically, the 'classic' package will come with no cars or tracks and the 'premium' package will include 30 cars and a measly 2 tracks to race on. Additional cars cost between 50 and 100 yen ($0.43-$0.85) and tracks go for 200-500 yen ($1.71-$4.26) a piece. No pricing was given for the game itself." From the article: "Now, is it possible that the game will be a full-priced title with a built-in download system that allows users to download cars and tracks equal to the number of the game's retail price? We hope the model ends up similar to this. However, right now, details are extremely sparse, and Sony has to have an answer to these questions -- most of the people who can answer are over in Tokyo, we'll update if we hear back. Welcome to next-gen."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

329 comments

Welcome to SONY next-gen (4, Insightful)

mr_zorg (259994) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170601)

Welcome to next-gen.
Next-gen gaming is already here in the form on the XBOX360, and I have yet to see any such approach there. Don't go trying to make people think ALL next-gen games will be like that. Add up all of Sony's mis-steps lately and you can't help but come to the conclusion that they've lost their minds.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (2, Insightful)

Soul-Burn666 (574119) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170647)

Two words... "Horse armor" [slashdot.org]

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (4, Insightful)

Fruny (194844) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170769)

Actually, I'm thinking "used games". This is a nice way for tham to make used games less attractive, since the original purchaser will already have consumed any "credit" that came bundled with the game (and we're not talking about a MMO subscription here). Instead you'll have to go back to Sony and pay them before the game becomes usable. Pure genius.

1) Make money off the initial sale.
2) Make money off the used game market.
3) Profit!

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

Salamande (461392) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170825)

Hopefully, game download "credits" will be tied to an account, instead of a game, as they are in the Xbox 360. This way, used game sales won't be a problem.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (2, Informative)

Xymor (943922) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171113)

Everyone blames Sony, but this ideia has probably originated from publishers or developers. Used games sales bring no profit whatsoever to hardware manufacturers, game publishers or developers. This way they could still allow a used game market, yet, cashing in on it. I don't like this one bit, if they don't release a full version of the game I simply won't buy it, but I can see their point of view. As I see they could go even go the extra mile and provide console-locking ability, publishers would just climax and consumers would swallow or shun it. It's the same with DRM in music and movies, most consumers don't notice or don't care(well that might be changing, since only 5% of ipoders buy from ITMS), and the few people who now that DRM is devil, aren't express enough to fight the wishes of MPAA and RIAA. We should come up with an acronym for money-sucking-DRM-lovers-Game-developers.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (3, Insightful)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171391)

Used game sales bring no profit to the hardware manufacturers, game publishers, and developers for a reason. They've already sold the product.

Your other point about them "allowing" a used game market is quite apropos to how they feel..

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (3, Insightful)

Loadmaster (720754) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170773)

Good point, but the horse armor add on isn't nearly as necessary as cars or tracks in a racing game.

Swi

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (2, Funny)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170855)

Myes... welcome to the brave new world of buying your games one strip at a time [penny-arcade.com] I think the simplest and most elegant way of making this fad die amongst developers is also the best way of getting back at them for ramming this down our throats in the first place. Now... it'll take a bit of coordination... and a very very small degree of work... bah.. fuck it

I'm hittin IHOP...

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170799)

The difference is that horse armor is crap created after the game that doesn't really have anything to do with the core game. I'm assuming Gran Turismo games came with a plethora of tracks and cars, and that usually they are unlocked after playing through parts of the game. Therefore to me it seems cars and tracks are vital to a racing game, where no one cares if oblivion has horse armor or not.

I could understand including all the usual cars and tracks in the game, and then selling additional stuff created afterwards. However, this doesn't seem to be the case (albiet the info given is vague).

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

maddskillz (207500) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170811)

But with the Horse Armor, you are getting a full featured game, with an add-on. If you decide not to buy this, you aren't really missing out on that much. I think the microtransactions are a great way of allowing you to add small items, but the game should be dependant on them.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

Grave (8234) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170829)

There is a very substantial difference to offering small items like that in micro-transactions and making the overwhelming bulk of game material available only by paying extra.

The worst part of all this is that GT HD is not even a new Gran Turismo game. It is apparently just a high-res revision of GT4.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

poolmeister (872753) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171075)

"GT HD is not even a new Gran Turismo game. It is apparently just a high-res revision of GT4"

True, although GT HD will be just an intermediary title to satisfy GT4 fans over until GT5's release. No doubt gamer's activities in GT HD could give them an advantage in GT5 much like GT Concept did on the PS2 before GT4, only this time the advantages will likely be carried over via an online account instead of a memory card.

Mmm... Yeah... (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171199)

Did anyone actually buy that horse armor?

I'd happily drop $30 if they'd re-release Morrowind on the Oblivion engine...

Good and Bad... (4, Insightful)

mitchell_pgh (536538) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170863)

Like most technologies, I can see the good and bad of this.

I'm fine with the developers expanding a game (in an incremental way as compared to major expansion packs) after the initial release, but the initial release MUST be a complete gaming experience. To release an incomplete game (no cars or courses as given in the example) and expect users to buy additional components to make the game playable is ridiculous.

I'm sure this will be sold as a "feature" and will be explained away with "why FORCE users to buy items that they don't want or need," but to me it sounds like a lovely way to force you to sign up for a "service."

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170871)

What is 1up's track record with this sort of reporting?

If this report is true, why not just make it a racing MMO? It seems like there are enough of that kind of player to justify it.

At any rate, I'm not interested in an MMO or any game where you must buy enhancements. It's really pretty odd, I know there's some development time in making upgrades and all that, but that's rediculous. If I pay for a game, I expect it to be fully useable out of the box.

Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (1)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171155)

Agreed. In my case [PC], I tend to wait a year or 4 before buying a game; the hardware requirements are easier to meet and it runs smoother. The problem? For some of these games, their developer has been sold or gone bankrupt. Their online features need patching to work with the new server setup, if any even currently exist for that game. If I can't get content for the LONG haul, I'll avoid games with this type of revenue model.

only because you missed it (4, Insightful)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171211)

MS sold additional maps for Halo 2. MS sold cars for PGR2 on Xbox years ago. They have sold two packs of cars on PGR3 for 360. They sold an upgrade for GRAW for $15 that is basically mandatory if you want to play online, because if you don't buy it you can't play in games hosted by people who bought the upgrade, even if they don't use any maps that came with the upgrade.

They sold a Santa outfit for the main character in Kameo.

They sell custom player icons for a few bucks. These icons are mostly ads for games.

They are readying new technology for October that allows developers to see you consumables in game. So they can sell you something, have it wear out and SELL IT TO YOU AGAIN.

I can understand not knowing the last part, but the rest just shows you aren't paying any attention. If you were looking at everything that is going on, MS would have made your hit list long before Sony.

Re:only because you missed it (3, Informative)

HatchedEggs (1002127) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171273)

The difference here just might be that Sony is selling a product WITHOUT ANY cars or courses to run them on. So you could basically buy the product and be able to sit there and look at how pretty the GUI is.

So I think that your analogy to MS about expansions, consumeable, etc misses the point. Because when those games shipped, the reality of the situation is that you could at least use them.

Now, if Sony was going ot ship their product for $10 and charge that for the cars, then by all means. However, if they plan on charging the full price of game for a version that doesn't include cars or courses then that is rediculous.

I hope this kind of greed (4, Interesting)

binkzz (779594) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170605)

Dies a fast and painful death. It could completely ruin the console gaming experience.

Re:I hope this kind of greed (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170657)

Hey, if you have $599 to pay for the console then you probably have the cash to shell out for micropayments for individual cars and tracks.

Re:I hope this kind of greed (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16171329)

na spent it all on the console

Re:I hope this kind of greed (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170741)

Actually, I think its moving closer to the Arcade gaming experience, I'm just waiting for a coin slot to appear in the next gen consoles.

Re:I hope this kind of greed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16171351)

err. fun for the whole family?

same as it ever was (4, Insightful)

mikerubin (449692) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170609)

batteries not included

batteries not included (2, Insightful)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171125)

Manufacturers dont include batteries because:

1. You cant just fly a product with batteries into the US. Its easier and cheaper to ship batteryless gadgets or did you want to pay a premium on crappy bottom-barrel no name batteries?

2. Its costs you more because now youre paying increased shipping for the product in the total cost instead of being able to freely choose batteries at the store. What if one brand is one sale but youre paying 2x that in the bundled batteries? Guess what, you just got ripped off.

3. Ever notice how bundled batteries die a short while after purchase? Who wants more of that?

Death of game (4, Funny)

raptorspike (765137) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170617)

Why does this seem like its going to piss off a number of kids who get this game for christmas or a birthday? "YEA!!! I got Gran Turismo HD!!!" *Runs upstairs and puts it in PS3* "What! No cars! No Tracks! WTF!!"

Re:Death of game (1)

rpguy (998925) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171245)

I'm afraid to ask just how many retail employees will look forward to hearing "This game's broken! My kid said that you forgot to put the cars in!" as they greet the coming returns line on that Boxing Day.

Voting with the wallet!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170619)

The ONLY THING...THE FRIGGIN ONLY THING!!! That I would have even thought about buying a PS3 for... has now been raped and screwed. GT was the standard, IMHO, in racing sims. Now a pathetic peice of marketing in sonys cannon of crap.

History repeats... the bigger the empire the harder than fall. Well Sony last vestage of empire just came cashing down at 80 cents a car vs thousands of loyal players that are willing to wait years and years of delay for a game to be "right"...

World's First FREE Video Game! (3, Funny)

setirw (854029) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170621)

"Our new game is FREE! Absolutely FREE! Download now!"*

<fineprint>
*Mesh vertices are $.000001 each. Rendering engine available for $12.95. Texture maps are $.0001 per pixel.


Seriously though, reduced-price modular video games expandable through micropayments is a neat concept. I can only hope that such a system remains optional, however...

Congratulations Sony, you've done it again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170631)

Gran Turismo is a great game, but do you think people will really be lining up to pay for extra cars? You've got to be kindding me. SONY: You're a big stupid idiot.

Why feign shock? (1)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170913)

SONY: You're a big stupid idiot.

The DRM rootkit wasn't proof enough for you?

Re:Why feign shock? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16171087)

Actually the "Root Kit" was something BMG used - not Sony. It was some "clever" software made by an Israelian sofware company, and sold as a drm kit for cdda. It just happened that Sony bought BMG and this skeleton dropped out of the closet ...

Anyway, I think the PS3 looks rather nice. Some über cool cpu, runs Linux, has Blu-ray Disc and i/o ports en masse!

Re:Why feign shock? (1)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171141)

I'm not calling you a liar, but I'd really like to see some sources on that

I mean, Sony took a LOT of Flak from that root kit bullshit. Had they provided the rootkit unwittingly (as you claim), I would like to think that the screw-up would have received as much coverage as the rootkit itself. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this was, indeed, known to be the case, and just wasn't widely reported (which is why I'm not calling you a liar)... but I'd really like to see sources.

PS3 is starting to sound better every day! (4, Funny)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170633)

With such foresight with games, will the hardware manufacturers catch on as well? I wonder if buttons will come with the controllers or will they be an extra, "optional" feature to, to be purchased on a 1 by 1 and on a "as needed" basis!

Seriously, it's cool if true EXTRAS are open to purchase, but I tend to feel jipped if a product doesn't even provide the basic experience I was expecting out of the box.

Re:PS3 is starting to sound better every day! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16171323)

The hardware manufacturers already have this price model. When you buy a PS2, it's basically useless without a $30 8MB memory card that probably cost $1 to make. Have a friend who wants to play a game with you? Fork over another $30 for a controller. Want to play online? Before the slim-line edition, that was another $50 purchase. On and on it goes...

Oh dear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170641)

Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360 just jumped WAY ahead of PS3. Xbox 360 seems to be slowly tipping towards more bought-n-downloaded content. Soon, all the casual gamer will have left is the Ninetndo Wii.

Wii-hoo!

Re:Oh dear (1)

cjb909 (838363) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171235)

What part of buying old nintendo games and downloading them to you Wii doesn't involve 'bought-n-downloaded' content?

Who is making these decisions (1)

NewsSurfer (1000129) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170651)

What kind of game is $60 dollars to begin with and also requires the player to shell out extra cash for unlockables? This is ridiculous. Sony just is making one mistake after another.

They can go screw themselves.... (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170661)

... in fact it looks like that is just what they are doing if they think this will sell. I sure as hell will be the first one to say I will not buy that bunch of bull. I own all the other GT games, and "was" looking forward to the new installments on the next system (when I get around to buying a PS3 which won't be right away). Note the key term of "was" in the previous statement. I certainly WON'T "buy" a game that I can't even play without spending even more money for the individual "parts" that make up the "game"... Basically it is trying to sell a car at full price and then telling the people who bought it, "oh, by the way, if you want to be able to actually start the car, well you need to buy an engine. And if you want the engine to run, you need to buy a exhaust system, fuel pump, fule lines, air intake duct, alternator, spark plugs, and fuel injection system. Oh and do you want to be able to stop? Yeah, you will need to get brakes, brake pads, brake assemblies, pressure lines, and brake fluid. Oh I forgot, you also need to buy the seat belts if you want to be legal too..."

Screw them...

Film at 11: "Sony destroys computer entertainment" (4, Insightful)

lonesometrainer (138112) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170665)

Gran Toursimo HD... the only game out there that could possibly make be buy a PS/3. I would have to replace my LCD-TV (no HDMI), would spend big bucks on a PS/3 and even for the game itself.

I always liked GT... had bought a PS/1 _only_ for Gran Toursimo, same about half a year ago with a PS/2, because I was in a spending mood.

I personally haven't touched a computer game for six or seven years right now - except Gran Tourismo.

Buying each track, each car? This would be just a rip-off. So, Sony/Polyphony Digital/Whoever you're expecting me to pay hundreds of bucks to play all the nice cars and tracks that had been available in every game before? I say NEVER, NEVER.

YOu now what? Your PS/3 seems to be a blatant consumer rip-off and if the story is true the day will come that I - as a consumer - will stop buying Sony products.

Go and copy some macbooks, your big days are obviously over.

Re:Film at 11: "Sony destroys computer entertainme (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16171269)

Are you using slashes in those abbreviations for any particular reason? My keyboard connects to my PC with a standard PS/2 jack, while several people enjoy playing games on their PS2s. ;)

Unbelievable... (1)

Sifer (318367) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170669)

Not only are Sony totally missing out the large demographic of gamers with no online access for their consoles, but being total retards in the process by assuming that people will actually pay a total of around $400 for everything which should already be included (and was in GT4) in the game. If this goes through, Sony are gonna find themselves with a LOT of unhappy gamers (more than what they have now no doubt :P). They clearly don't care for the gamers, so I clearly don't care for them. I won't miss them when they're gone for sure.

Fat chance (1)

mallardtheduck (760315) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170671)

Now, is it possible that the game will be a full-priced title with a built-in download system that allows users to download cars and tracks equal to the number of the game's retail price?

Well going by Sony's track record, the game will be at best half price, and will include a maximum of $10 worth of "credit".

What a Winner.......Not (4, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170691)

PS games have been overpriced for years without any silly ideas like this. There is absolutely no way people are going to pay for odds and ends that should be a part of the game in the first place, and just aren't worth that kind of money.

So the games industry wants to know what fuels piracy? Well, stuff like this certainly helps quite a bit.

Re:What a Winner.......Not (3, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170847)

Beyond the initial cost, a WoW subscription is over $150/year. Do they add the equivalent content for 3 full $50 games in that whole year? Is the new gameplay innovative or just copying old stuff with a different treasure at the end? Are the graphics getting any better? So many people are playing it.

I'm not saying WoW is bad, just that a great many players are happy to throw down tons of cash on a game as long as they find it fun. I don't know how well this will work for a racing game, but the business plan has worked before. I definately don't like the idea of paying individually for all the initial levels but I think it would be pretty cool if I could download an expansion every month with a new car and a few new maps, if the price was kept low.

Re:What a Winner.......Not (1)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170941)

An MMORPG should not be expected to use the same economic model as a stand-alone console game. The $150/year is paying salaries and maintenance costs. Once Sony kicks GT HD out the door, they're done... unless they decide to throw a team together for more content. But they certainly aren't trying to maintain servers supporting 7 million clients.

Re:What a Winner.......Not (1)

stuffman64 (208233) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171239)

So by your math, $150/year times 7 million clients = $1.05 BILLION dollars in revenue per year. Convince me that you need even a fifth of that to maintain servers and pay salaries, I'll buy your arguement. MMORPGs are cash cows, and there's no two ways about it. Sony's plan (if it is in fact their plan) is just as bad.

Re:What a Winner.......Not (1)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171283)

That'll teach me to not put a disclaimer in there, since I wasn't defending WoW... just saying that you can't really draw an accurate comparison between the two...

I won't try to convince you that you'd need even a fifth of that for server maintenance and salaries... but it'd at least be a few million (a conservative guess for, say, 20 people at 50k/year = 1 mil, and they've probably got ten times that in the "division" or w/e the hell their cell is for WoW, most of whom probably make more than 50k/year)... compared to the $0 in upkeep GT HD will cost

Now, if this was about additional content then the micropayments would be fine... except it's not. As some other posters have mentioned (and it was even mentioned in TFA) this is for what would otherwise be standard content. That's where it suddenly becomes a load of horse shit.

Never underestimate fanboys. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170875)

There is absolutely no way people are going to pay for odds and ends that should be a part of the game in the first place, and just aren't worth that kind of money.

I'll bet money that people not only are going to pay for this crap, but they'll line up around the block to do it. Fanboys are that stupid.

As of now, the Wii is clearly the only system I'd consider buying and if any of this type of stuff pops up on the Wii, then the console gaming industry can lick my sweaty nutsack because they aren't going to get any of my money.

Re:What a Winner.......Not (2, Interesting)

yanos (633109) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170945)

So the games industry wants to know what fuels piracy? Well, stuff like this certainly helps quite a bit.

How? If you just download the game, you won't be able to enjoy it unless you buy some cars and tracks to play with. And you probably won't be able to do that since your modded ps3 has good chances of beign flagged as a non-legit unit by the online store. This sort of thing can actually force more people to buy their games and not to mod their console.

Synergizing the paradigm shift... (2, Insightful)

enjo13 (444114) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170701)

I guess THIS is what they meant when they told me to 'think outside the box'. It's literally like Sony sat down and went 'just how badly can we screw up the PS3'? They are definitely executing that strategy to perfection.

This will work excellent (5, Insightful)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170713)

If someone is stupid enough to buy a ps3 for $599, and a game at 80$, they have more money than brains, and will probably buy all the tracks and cars too.

Re:This will work excellent (2, Interesting)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171419)

I think a lot of people here miss this. All of you who think Sony is shooting themselves in the foot. Sony knows that they have the hook in your mouth, and that no matter how much they toy with you, the hook just goes in deeper. They know they could charge $700 for their machine, post Sony-rootkit (not saying that that is the price) and people would still buy it. Frankly, I would do the same if I was in their shoes, not for profit, just purely out of curiousity, an experiment of sorts, to see how much people can take.

Hacked? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16170747)

I'm assuming that something like this will let you download the cars and tracks to the PS3s built in HDD, so how long will it last before someone hacks it so can you can just copy the cars and tracks other people have purchased to your HDD?

The only other option is to make the game online play only

Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170753)

Indeed as the story points out, pricing is the key to this being good or evil for us as consumers.

If the game sells at half price to start, and I can buy just the cars I like and all the tracks at a price lower than most of the other retail titles - then the idea will be a good one for the game designers and consumers alike.

But outside of that, automatic mistrust of micropayments that seems to be rampant in responses to this story smacks of luddite thinking. Is not this the future we wanted, to be able to buy things in small components and assemble them as we wish? Greed may or may not enter into it but as a gamer the ability to buy a custom variety of tracks (some perhaps user designed!!) and cars is appealing.

But then again, it came from Sony so all of the normal interest in technology is turned topsy-turvy in bloodlust to see Sony fall. What a shame there are not more pure gamers and enlightened technical thinkers about Slashdot nowadays rather than having the populace fall to the Herd Mind of Rage which is all too popular in so many areas of thought these days. Far easier to demonize than engage in rational thought, I guess.

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

Slashcrap (869349) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171039)

What a shame there are not more pure gamers and enlightened technical thinkers about Slashdot nowadays rather than having the populace fall to the Herd Mind of Rage which is all too popular in so many areas of thought these days.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you got beaten a lot at school.

Seriously, I'm not wrong am I?

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171083)

>macks of luddite thinking. Is not this the future we wanted, to be able to buy things in small components and assemble them as we wish?

A couple points:

1. Youre buying something but you dont own it. How are you going to "assemble" some locked down proprietary software add-on on a locked down console?

2. This aint the future. There's nothing older than the "buy more accessories" scam.

3. Sony has more than earned its reputation. If people hate it then guess what, thats real market forces at work.

4. People hate micropayments? Not on my planet. How much is paypal worth again?

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171193)

1) If you can perminently store and use it, it's as good as owning it. The end effect is the same to the user.

2) Accessories do not fundmentially change the nature of a product. If I can buy (for example) only dirt rally tracks, that makes it a different product than if I buy only oval high-speed tracks.

3) Sony has earned a reputation in abusing micropayments how again? You are confsing perhaps the actions of Sony Music with Sony Gaming, not even the same company and not even the same problem.

4) Slashdot readers seem to hate micropayments, I was not saying people in general dislike them - indeed part of my point was complaints posted here seemed to go against the greain of what people normally want.

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

theLOUDroom (556455) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171093)

If the game sells at half price to start, and I can buy just the cars I like and all the tracks at a price lower than most of the other retail titles - then the idea will be a good one for the game designers and consumers alike.

I challenge this assertion.

How are you getting these cars?
Downloading them of course, via your Playstation.

Know what that means?
They're going to locked to your particular playstation or memory card to prevent "piracy".

There are a number of negatives you're not taking into account:
-Shitty resale value for the game itself
-Extreme difficulty or virtual impossibility of selling cars
-Need for net access to have a game that's worth playing (not all of us like to give our game consoles net access)
-The cost of your time downloading cars and the general hassle it involves
-The cost of your time figuring out what cars are worth buying in the first place
-The cost of your time signing up for this micropayment system and the assosciated privacy and fraud concerns

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

znaps (470170) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171225)

-Shitty resale value for the game itself
I don't think the resale values will be that bad - in fact with popular games it may be the opposite. Why? Because with a constant stream of income, the software houses will have more incentive to release new content for old, but popular games, keeping them fresh and their resale values high.

-Extreme difficulty or virtual impossibility of selling cars
I agree that it will be virtually impossible to sell cars, but is that *really* such a big deal? I usually prefer to create my dream cars myself rather than buying one premade.

-Need for net access to have a game that's worth playing (not all of us like to give our game consoles net access)
You have to accept this is going to be the norm for many games, and probably all in the near future, whether you buy a PS3, 360 or a Wii.

Challenge the challenge (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171303)

Know what that means?
They're going to locked to your particular playstation or memory card to prevent "piracy".


Would it not be far more likley these items are tied to your account rather than a particualr Playstation or memory card (the latter not even making sense since it would probably go on the internal hard drive).

There are a number of negatives you're not taking into account:
-Shitty resale value for the game itself


Why? Other people still have to buy the shell, so you can always sell it to people wanting that. It's no different than selling any other game so it is an irrelvent problem to raise in the context of expanding the shell of a game through online purchases.

-Extreme difficulty or virtual impossibility of selling cars

And you know that for sure how? Now you dscount the possibility of a virtual auction house, as many games have nowadays.

-Need for net access to have a game that's worth playing (not all of us like to give our game consoles net access)

That is a good point and will be taken into account my purchasers, it will be interesting to see how much that limits sales.

-The cost of your time downloading cars and the general hassle it involves

If the game design is good it should involve no hassle and almost no bandwith (tracks I imagine would be larger)

-The cost of your time figuring out what cars are worth buying in the first place

I see you've never played GT before, or you would realize that a huge part of the game (indeed, mnay car games) is spent deciding what cars you like and what you want for upgrades. This changes nothing really in the game dynamic except perhaps to offer you new choices over time.

-The cost of your time signing up for this micropayment system and the assosciated privacy and fraud concerns

None of those issues anyone really cares about, or eBay would not be a success. The 360 has shown plenty of people are happy indeed to sign up with such a service. If you do not want to, you don't have to - you just miss out on expanded features you could get online.

I guess you must be really tweaked about the Wii letting you have access to every nintendo game ever, all online...

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (4, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171257)

If the game sells at half price to start, and I can buy just the cars I like and all the tracks at a price lower than most of the other retail titles - then the idea will be a good one for the game designers and consumers alike.

The trouble is that this system turns classic rewards in video games on its head. Back in the arcade you had to insert a coint when you failed a level, with this new system you have to insert a coin when you beat it. So success will be punished instead of rewarded, could be a great way to let motivation drop down quite a bit, even if the total money wouldn't be that different.

I don't think there is anything wrong with micropayment in itself, in fact I think its great for true additional content, but designers have to be very care full to not turn it into an annoyancy. The system in GT HD doesn't sound like they sell you additional content, it sounds like they sell you content you would have gotten with the game for 'free' a few years ago. This again has little todo with actual money, even so they probally wouldn't do it if they could gain more profit from it, but much more with psychology. Gaming should be first and for most fun, being forced to think about paying for the next level or track however isn't something that I would consider fun, I simply don't want to be bothered by such things when playing the game.

Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171393)

The trouble is that this system turns classic rewards in video games on its head. Back in the arcade you had to insert a coint when you failed a level, with this new system you have to insert a coin when you beat it. So success will be punished instead of rewarded, could be a great way to let motivation drop down quite a bit, even if the total money wouldn't be that different.

That's a really good point, it seems to change the game dynamic... perhaps though winning races in the game will still give you some free cars, or discounts on other cars - then you have the same motives. Only now you are playing for real money (in a way)....

I don't think there is anything wrong with micropayment in itself, in fact I think its great for true additional content, but designers have to be very care full to not turn it into an annoyancy. The system in GT HD doesn't sound like they sell you additional content, it sounds like they sell you content you would have gotten with the game for 'free' a few years ago.

I think it's a little unfair to say they are charging for what you would have had for free otherwise. Again, that part comes down to how much the initial game shell costs vs. the car costs. In a way I like it because it gives them motive to provide an even wider range of cars, because each car design you can buy for the game can bring in some payments to make up for the cost of modeling it.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the GT designers realize games are generally about fun, and to make sure the game and the dynamics of using it are still fun for players. I am saying, let's give them the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping all over them and assuming the worst from the start as many posters (not necessarily you) seem to be doing. They probably realize most people are not going to want to end up paying a few hundred dollars for a game after micropayments are included, and will balance that out just as other game factors are balanced.

Wow. (1)

androvsky (974733) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170771)

Console makers have been threat... err, promising to do this since Xbox Live first came out, but no one's been stupid enough to actually go all out on a title people actually want. Enter Sony. The one console maker stupid enough to actually believe the crap that comes out of the marketing department. I'm a big Sony fan, and I'm still looking forward to the PS3 if for no other reason it has a lot of potential for homebrew app development. But the only thing good I see coming out of this is the inevitable penny-arcade comic. Come on, combine a next-gen console with stupid microtransaction crap, and Gabe and Tycho must be salivating at the possibilities even now.

Lets Think About This a Second (2, Interesting)

SteevR (612047) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170777)

Originally posted [escapistmagazine.com] to The Escapist [escapistmagazine.com] in their forum [escapistmagazine.com] (by me).

Disclaimer: I bought a PS2 to play Gran Turismo 4. I also bought the Logitech Racing Wheel. You could say I'm a fan.

A micropayment strategy for online games is still novel in the US; compare that to Korea, where developers have created a bustling market for addons purchased online. Many of the games eschew subscription fees in favor of allowing no-payers to play, but be significantly handicapped through game-mechanics (didn't buy that turbo boost?), or socially handicapped in the world (their avatar isn't decked out in the latest sprite fashion). It is my understanding that alternate forms of payment, like gamecards or charging items to your mobile phone account makes billing less painful (and more impulsive). The bottom line is that this model is appropriate for some types of online games.



That said, what implications might this have for Gran Turismo specifically? Having to pay for cars and tracks will certainly limit the appeal somewhat.

0. Having to purchase, presumably via credit card, vehicles to play online will restrict the audience. Especially in the U.S. where alternate forms of online payment are in their infancy.

1. It will encourage a new user to research the virtual autos available, and pick one/few suited to their desires/needs. This serves to extend the nature of the simulation somewhat.

2. It will encourage users to practice with that vehicle, to the point where they can actually handle it properly on the track. This also serves the overall simulation (if you buy all 750 cars, you aren't playing Gran Turismo, you're playing a game of Jay Leno).

3. A combination of 0, 1 and 2 will lead to a higher general level of competition online. Just like the barriers to real-life autocrossing; people mildly interested in cars are not to be found on a real racetrack. This will further serve the simulation. This will also tend to drive off casual players to a greater degree than 0 or 1. This will serve as a draw for the serious players, who will spend more money over time.

4. Which tracks I have will limit the number of other players I can race against. This reflects the real world in a rather un-fun way (I can't drive from Kansas to Japan to "attack the downhill" on their mountain passes).

5. Due to 4, the more casual players would tend to buy a few tracks, and practice them. They will likely have a favorite, likely one that matches their car well. This would put them at an advantage over another person who owns the track, but has a different sort of car and another favorite track. This could serve as sort of a handicap, skilled players challenging other players who specialize in one course or one type of course. Think Initial D, where you have an "86" (A sporty version of the early eighties Toyota Corrolla) defeating 400HP AWD R32 Nissan Skylines. Handicap races with cars unsuited to the course they are on could partially offset 4, because they might have a stream of more heavily invested/skilled players (i.e. bought more tracks and cars) interested in racing them on their home turf.

6. Over time, because the investment is low, the more casual players will get disatsfied with their tracks and vehicles and buy more. This would support the server infrastructure over time, and lend longevity to the game. Microsoft does a lot to support live, it is clear what Nintendo intends to do with the Wii, but Sony was approaching the new generation with the same general attitude towards online play as they did with the PS2; it is the publisher's problem. And since the publisher finds few people (proportionate to sales) are willing to pay any monthly or yearly fee at all to support online infrastructre, that makes those subscription fees high. Micropurchases over time are a great way to support an infrastructure that will probably be designed to limit the amount of hosting they have to pay for (P2P game interaction, server matchmaking and stats).



A note about my comment that a lack of unskilled, casual players attracting the serious ones:

At the very end of the time in PC Gaming where the combat flight sim, not the FPS was the most hardware intensive genre, online play became available. Those same games, 8-10 years later, still dominate in terms of player numbers. These are small, insular communities one has to work hard at joining (article idea anyone?). Other games, with better network code, more realistic flight model, immeasurably better graphics and sound, have come along and never were more than a blip in online player numbers. The old sim grognards bought them, to be sure, as an offline diversion.

Try playing IL2 Sturmovik online. If you can find another player, I can garuntee that they are an amatuer with no idea how to take off without crashing, let alone survive a dogfight.

It will be the same with Gran Turismo. Each successive game gets more and more sim-like, and harder for the average Need For Speed/Burnout wheel jockey to handle. I'd love to see the online player win/loss statistics for Forza Motorsport; I'll bet there is a huge spike in player numbers at the bottom, with a large error bar due to insufficient sampling. Thats because they quit.

Bottom line is that Sims aren't games, and their online communities have a different feel than games do. That means that different economic models are going to cause different reactions in the fanbase. You might see a general outcry at first, a lot of storm and fury, but before that even begins to blow over, the real racers will be sqealing around the track trying to make a difficult pass on the last corner, in their car.

Re:Lets Think About This a Second (2)

mallardtheduck (760315) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171221)

People don't buy video games to experiance real life. Simple as that.

If you want to make the game, sorry "simulation" realistic, cars would cost between $10,000 and $1,000,000, tracks would be $10,000,000+ and take years to "download". Oh, and you would be playing in an actual car, on an actual track... Oh look, I've just described real life.

People buy video games to do things that they could never do in real life, and have fun while they are at it. Who in real life gets to be a secret agent, military commander, fighter pilot and professional racing driver, all in one week?
Nobody, except in video games.

Many racing games already have an economic model, you earn money in races, which you can spend on cars. Just like a real racing driver. In a sense, using real money actually makes it less realistic, who earns their money in a day job, then enters professional races in their spare time?

Re:Lets Think About This a Second (1)

SteevR (612047) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171299)

Sims aren't games. There is a deliniation there, which was the part of the point of the parent you missed.

Next-gen? (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170783)

Sounds like Last-Gen. Battlefield2 came with a few levels and player types but when you got bored of those you could buy add-ons which basically give you a few new player types and some new levels.

To have as many cars and tracks as Forza 2... (4, Interesting)

Grave (8234) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170807)

$180 plus the initial purchase cost. This is if the lowest cost per car and track is figured. At the highest point, it's $383.

Forza Motorsport 2 is going to be $49.99. ....

Why does Sony persist in speaking to anyone in the public or press? They just keep making things worse for themselves.

Nickle and Dime (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170815)

Welcome to the future, where everyting is pay as you go, where you cant actually own anything, and 'the base price is'.. where they nickle and dime us to death...

nice but (1)

Kuku_monroe (753761) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170817)

I never owned a gran turismo game, because it's basically the only game i'd to buy a playstation (1/2/3) for. And when i get the chance to play it, i only choose some arcade track and get the subaru impreza to play. My question is, what if (apart from having to buy the cars) they ask you to have certain numbers of cars before buying the better ones?

Micro Payment? (2, Insightful)

faffod (905810) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170849)

To me a micro-payment is something in the order of a couple of cents (US$, fill in appropriate equivalant for other currencies). It is a very difficult problem to solve - how do you track micro-payments in such a way that it doesn't cost you more than what you'll end up collecting. Charges in the order of US$1.00 are not micro-payments. They're small, quite possibly impulse-payments, but definately not micro-payments. Marketing is trying to use the term to get consumers comfortable with the idea of dishing out cash. "Oh... it's just a 'micro'-payment of $5.00"

Call the Whaaaaambulance! (1, Interesting)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170889)

Calm down people, it's just a stupid (console) game.

This may, or may not, be a good thing. Of course, having any relation to Sony automatically implies it's something horrible and evil, but there are a lot of ways this can improve the game overall.

I'd gladly throw out all the ricer cars from the latest NFS game if it meant I could have more McLaren and Ferrari cars, or that I could save a few bucks. This would also show the devs which cars are in most demand, encouraging them to make more of those. Now, this last point could be negative for me if everybody drove riced out civics, but whatever. GTR2 seems to have all the official FIA championship tracks (and a few variations), but being able to drive on a local race track could be worth a buck or two.

No, I won't buy it, and I also won't get a PS3 or any other console, but it'll be interesting to see how this works out. Maybe it'll suck and be the first and last game to try this, or maybe it'll be the best thing since sliced bread.

Re:Call the Whaaaaambulance! (1)

Morphine007 (207082) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170959)

Calm down people, it's just a stupid (console) game.

... I didn't know you worked for Sony Mobby?

Not trying to dig at you too hard dude, but another poster hit the nail on the head: The attitude you showed in your first sentence appears to be absolutely rampant at Sony atm.

Shame too... I used to like their stuff

Your mileage may vary? (4, Funny)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170915)

...the 'classic' package will come with no cars or tracks...

So, a game with no capability? Perhaps they can now start selling Duke Nukem Forever... Parts sold separately, soon (no really, soon)!

Nonsense (2, Insightful)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170925)

"Even if there was a consumer who decided to buy the PlayStation 3 perhaps as a Blu-ray player, I think that they will quickly realize the potential and the entertainment value of the fantastic content in true (high definition). Any consumer would be hard-pressed really not to try that functionality out."

-- Kazuo Hirai Let the PS3 games Begin [com.com]


Witness the awesome entertainment value enabled by Blue-Ray games disks! No cars or courses!

"We wanted to take advantage of the storage capacity that Blu-ray offers in terms of motion pictures and other content, but most importantly, for games as well. Our decision to include the Blu-ray player from day one in all of our PlayStation 3s was the right decision and, quite honestly, the only decision we can make.

Look at the massive amounts of data that's required to provide a truly immersive gaming experience in true HD. If you only have a DVD ROM drive, which can only go up to about 9GB or so, you're going to end up with a game that's going to have two or possibly even three discs. And then you're going to have to ask consumers to swap discs out or cache all the game onto the hard drive which I think is an inconvenience--not to mention the fact that you're going to fill up a 20GB hard drive very quickly with some of these games. So trying to go without a Blu-ray drive in the PlayStation 3 really is a nonstarter."

LMAO @ their logic (1)

3vi1 (544505) | more than 7 years ago | (#16170943)

When *no* one spends a cent on that sucky Ford, or even low-end Porshe... They'll suddenly realize the flaw in their logic.

Links and Information (1)

doctor_no (214917) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171025)

Some of the facts aren't entirely straight: Both HD-Premium (GT5) and HD-Classic (GT4 HD) will be pakaged and sold together, and Yamauchi has stated it will be "cheap" (so its not full retail price). Most of the pricing has not been decided. It will have cars and tracks included, but there will be over 770 cars and 51 extra tracks that can be downloaded. The game will be designed more like an MMO where will be cars clubs (aka Guilds), teams, custimizable logos and license plates, online-tournaments etc will be included. The game will run at full 1080p(1980x1080) and 60fps. Ferrari has also been confirmed for the game. Official GT Hompage: http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/sp/detail.do?articl e_id=376 [gran-turismo.com] http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/sp/detail.do?articl e_id=375 [gran-turismo.com]

Consumables is where it's at (1)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171089)

Imagine a game like Halo - not only do you have to buy the weapons, but you also have to buy the ammo. And when it's all gone you'll need to buy more. Frightening to even contemplate, but it's probably the future.

If this is true, the game will be free (2, Insightful)

dank zappingly (975064) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171091)

400 bucks for the complete game? Somehow I doubt it. Sony is known for pushing pricing limits, but I don't think they'd be risking one of their exclusive system sellers with a pricing scheme like that. If those values are anywhere near correct then the game itself will be completely free. I can't imagine that it won't come with at least a decent amount of tracks and cars. It would be a cool idea for that type of game, because anyone could try it out, and if you didn't like it, you'd have only wasted a few bucks, and they could support it with a million extra tracks for the people who really love it. Then again this strategy would leave people who did not have a means for hooking their PS3 to a fast internet connection in the dark, so I doubt it will be the dominant strategy.

Only way... (4, Insightful)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171109)

Only way I could see this working, is if the base game were a pack-in with the console.

Then it's a 'free demo' that everyone can try out, even if they (like me) don't currently care for racing games.

As usual, submission takes the pessimistic view (2, Interesting)

TempeTerra (83076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171183)

Sure, we all know Sony are completely batshit crazy - but if you ignore the gloom-and-doom reporting you'll realise that the following scenario is more plausible:

Gran Turismo: Menu Edition comes free with your PS3 Live account, which also includes $20 of credit at the Sony store. Everyone picks up a couple of tracks and a couple of cars with their credit and plays a LIMITED PREVIEW of the real new Gran Turismo game. Sony gets to showcase their online service with a popular franchise and gets free publicity for said franchise. Micropayments seperate fanboys from their money, everyone else just plays the game with a couple of cars.

The game is also available as Gran Turismo: I'm Too Lame For The Internet Edition, which has a couple of cars and a couple of tracks and you can play it with your mates without ever connecting to the internet.

Now THAT'S a sensible plan... what Sony will actually do remains to be seen.

These games are getting a little too realistic. (1)

RowboatRobot (899380) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171207)

I thought video games were about escaping reality. If developers start making video game world where success mirrors the player's real-life wealth, rather than their skill, then what would be the point? If I wanted to see rich people getting what they want, and the average joe getting screwed because they don't have enough money, all I have to do is read the news. I don't see why I should shell out $60 and hours of my time to do that. Furthermore, wasn't the video-game industry originally about entertaining kids? A kid can't afford to buy power-ups, to pay for new race tracks, and all but the most spoiled won't be able to coax their parents into it. So if a kid sees a game like GT, they get all excited, they wait all year for it, they buy it with their birthday money, they get, what? A couple cars, a few tracks. You know, for all this talk of next-gen, the gaming experience seems to have gone significantly backwards. It's all about the money these days, and never about the fun.

$150 for a game I already own? (1)

enkafan (604078) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171315)

I was working at Target when Gran Turismo was originally released. I can't remember a single game moving consoles faster than that game. I know that three of my friends had me buy them PSX's along with that game to use my employee discount. When the PS2 came out, the only reason I bought it in addition to my Dreamcast was because of Gran Turismo.

So this news bothers me. I have a 360 and so far I'm pretty pleased with it. I'll probably pick up a Wii too. My PS3 purchase was pretty much solely based on Gran Turismo. I was looking at dropping something retarded like $600 for a console, and now you're telling me I'm going to be spending $100+ for Gran Turismo? And this is just to get a better graphics version of a game that I already own on the PS2?

I'm not impressed. I never played that Forza game before - I guess I need to hoping it's a good one.

What a rip! (1)

Ice Wewe (936718) | more than 7 years ago | (#16171359)

2 Words... "That sucks". When I pay for a game, I don't want a recurring charge for whenever I need a new car. The whole point of the game is to race to get virtual money to buy a car. Look for a gameshark cheat near you!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...