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Gamestop Managers Worried Over PS3 Launch

Zonk posted about 8 years ago | from the i-would-be-too dept.

93

The Opposable Thumbs column has commentary today from some managers who attended the annual EB/Gamestop preview event. The reaction from the attendees to the PS3/Blue-ray presence is not inspiring. From the article: "The difference between HD DVD and Blu-Ray was striking as well. 'Blu-ray had a tiny presence in the very back of the show floor, while Microsoft had large displays and surround sound systems in their hospitality suite so you can take a look at what their HD DVD drives would look like. It was impressive, and gave the feeling that HD DVD was real and Blu-ray wasn't ready for the show.' I asked him his feelings going into the PS3 launch with no word on allocations or preorders, and no news on what will happen towards the holidays. 'It's going to be ugly, there is no way this launch is going to go well.'"

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Very Relevant (2, Funny)

ack154 (591432) | about 8 years ago | (#16325393)

Between blu-ray concerns, possible crashing issues mentioned the other day, and still availability concerns, I never noticed how true this was:

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

THIS IS THE ol' BiG MAN, www.bestbuysux.org (-1, Troll)

SlashdotTroll (581611) | about 8 years ago | (#16326169)

(...finished typing This text; as adapted to a skit easily found at Google Video of the Ol' Big Man ranting about Starbux. [google.com] Enjoy...)

Hey, the big customer's back. www.bestbuysux.org.
The big customer got up this morning, you know.
Felt like buying a video-game system for my child,
with an extra controller so I or his friends can play along.
I wound up in one of them Best Buy's, you know.
I knew the joint wasn't right soon as I walked in, you know.
I seen these blue-shirted people walking in circles around the entertainment Screens, chanting for some idiot, walking around the isles then stopping to pose, and acting like they was too fuckin' busy to be bothered unless they caught you looking at them, you know.
Finally I arrive to the register at a girl.
Before I say a word, she asks "Do you want to buy a Warrantee, pick-up your property in the Tech, or attend an employee-hiring session?"
I say, "Listen honey, I don't know what kind of fuckin' place this is, I just want to buy a fuckin' good video-game system and extra-controller for my child."
She says, "The PlayStation 2 and XBox 360, either with an extra controller is US $600 dollars."
Plus, she had the fuckin' balls to ask if I wanted to purchase a Best Buy warrantee on top of that for an extra US $200 dollars."
I says, "Seven-hundred fuckin' dollars for a fuckin' console and a fuckin' extra controller? Fuckin' stick it!"
I went right around the corner to a fuckin' video-game shop, I take an oath to my son, I buy the fuckin' Wii special: two wireless controllers, Wii console, network adapters, two game titles, with all the ease of on-screen multimedia features you can use, threw in a extra demonstration game as I walked out the door, and for an extra buck and a half they gave me a fuckin' issue of Nintendo Power.
I walked out of there fuckin' buffed.
Cost me US $300 and a Grover (US $50) for the whole fuckin' ball o' wank.
I couldn't stop playing for 2 months.
What's a fucking working man supposed to do?
You go to one of them fuckin' Best Buys; the poor working guy, what do they think they're fucking selling over there?
Fuckin' golden bars of DRM?
Fuckin' console and an extra controller for US $600?
Stick it up your ass, fuckin' Worst Buy!
What about the fucking workin' man?
Anyway, think about it
this is the ol' customer. he he!
www.bestbuysux.org
and the customer's always happy to see ya!

Re:Very Relevant (1)

robotfaceboy (971881) | about 8 years ago | (#16326791)

can't wait to see when all these consoles are finally out and after the christmas rush to see how things go really

Re:Very Relevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16329637)

Heh, I bet its all part of Sony's plan. I mean they're short consoles. The way you keep the demand low enough to get just enough consumers to buy it and prevent a shortage is by putting out all kinds of bad information. This will drive the people who are "on the fence" about buying one away so there are more consoles available for the "true fans."

Look In The Mirror (1)

JordanL (886154) | about 8 years ago | (#16325441)

It's going to be ugly, there is no way this launch is going to go well.

But that's retailers fault more than Sony's. Even if Sony supplies enough quantity, and it does what they say it will, Gamestop and EB have been selling the short game, what they have on their shelves, all year long, and as a result, consumers have been hearing mostly baseless FUD about a potential $600 purchase.

In addition to that, Microsoft fucked up whatever trust the retailers ever had in suppliers int he industry.

Re:Look In The Mirror (2, Informative)

dontbflat (994444) | about 8 years ago | (#16325545)

consumers have been hearing mostly baseless FUD about a potential $600 purchase
Um you must be not reading the news or the offical sony reports. Well....here it is Just for you: http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/about.html [playstation.com]

It clearly says there will be a $600 configuration and a $500 configuration.

Re:Look In The Mirror (1, Interesting)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | about 8 years ago | (#16325907)

I must point out the following flaws in your post:

1. He said "potential;" He did not indicate alternatives to this potential
2. PS3 is shipping 80/20 [slashdot.org] $600 units to $500 units
3. Since Sony is planning on shipping 400K units to North America, only 80,000 $500 units will be available.
4. Therefore, the vast majority of Gamestop customers will "potentially" face a $600 purchase.

Re:Look In The Mirror (0)

EastCoastSurfer (310758) | about 8 years ago | (#16325991)

Actually more since it seems like near launch you have to buy a bundle with games, controllers, memory cards, etc... To get a ps3 at or near launch will probably cost closer to $800-$1000

Re:Look In The Mirror (3, Funny)

Babbster (107076) | about 8 years ago | (#16325765)

But that's retailers fault more than Sony's. Even if Sony supplies enough quantity, and it does what they say it will, Gamestop and EB have been selling the short game, what they have on their shelves, all year long, and as a result, consumers have been hearing mostly baseless FUD about a potential $600 purchase.

Wow. You mean to say that Gamestop has been trying to sell real products that exist instead of trying to sell products that don't? They must really be crazy!

Re:Look In The Mirror (3, Funny)

shawb (16347) | about 8 years ago | (#16326105)

Yeah... they haven't been taking my preorder for Duke Nukem Forever on the Phantom. In fact, I haven't even seen the cardboard standup in any of my local stores... and we have 3 gamestops in a 2 block radius.

Re:Look In The Mirror (1)

skorch (906936) | about 8 years ago | (#16325827)

But that's retailers fault more than Sony's. Even if Sony supplies enough quantity, and it does what they say it will, Gamestop and EB have been selling the short game, what they have on their shelves, all year long, and as a result, consumers have been hearing mostly baseless FUD about a potential $600 purchase.


Yeah that makes sense. Because retailers have a habit of downplaying hype for products they hope to sell for potentially huge profits. For no reason. Gamestop are just more sony-haters. They're still mad over the success of the PS2 and all the profits it made for them so now they're spreading baseless fud. riiight.

In addition to that, Microsoft fucked up whatever trust the retailers ever had in suppliers int he industry.


Yeah, cause the retailers hate MS too now. Which is why they're praising the HD-DVD format over the relatively unprepared Blu-Ray showings. That'll teach those untrustworthy MS folks.

Re:Look In The Mirror (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | about 8 years ago | (#16326961)

Yeah, cause the retailers hate MS too now. Which is why they're praising the HD-DVD format over the relatively unprepared Blu-Ray showings.

Yeah dude, there's like dozens of news stories every week about how all retailers love HDDVD and hate Blueray. I wonder how anyone will be able to buy Blueray, I mean 'cuz all the retailers hate it so much there's no way in hell they'll stock it.

Re:Look In The Mirror (1)

amuro98 (461673) | about 8 years ago | (#16326487)

What exactly is EBGamestop and others supposed to be selling?

Information on the PS3 has been fairly scarce. There's been almost no playable demos at tradeshows, and people still doubt they've actually seen a "real" PS3 in action.

About the only thing we DO know is that there is a $500 and a $600 model, and that approximately 100,000 $500 models and 400,000 models will show up in the US for launch day.

With Sony using every available blue laser diode they can get for the PS3, there aren't even a lot of Blu-Ray movie players available for stores to try and hype that aspect of the PS3 (or blu-ray in general for that matter.)

Re:Look In The Mirror (1)

rob1980 (941751) | about 8 years ago | (#16326713)

consumers have been hearing mostly baseless FUD about a potential $600 purchase.

Dude, it is going to be a $600 purchase - that isn't baseless FUD, that's straight from the horse's mouth. In fact, once you tack on games and accessories, sales tax, etc, I would not be very surprised if some people break the $1,000 mark just at launch.

Re:Look In The Mirror (0, Flamebait)

JordanL (886154) | about 8 years ago | (#16327275)

I was talking about the price, I was talking about the product, what they are getting. Consumers have been hearing FUD about what their $600 will and will not buy for the last 6 months. Is it any wonder then when the retailers turn around and try to sell it to them, they are somewhat skeptical?

Retailers dug their own graves on this one.

Re:Look In The Mirror (2, Insightful)

ClamIAm (926466) | about 8 years ago | (#16327559)

Dude, it is going to be a $600 purchase - that isn't baseless FUD

I think what the GP meant is that it's impossible to be an educated consumer regarding the PS3. There is so much spin that it's really hard to make any sort of informed choice. Let's look at the major players.

Sony's being arrogant, elitist cheerleaders. Of course, they're always this way, it's just that they usually don't say much after their systems launch. We were promised the stars before (PS2 will do Toy Story!!), so it's hard to know what claims are actually true. And it doesn't help that historically, Sony hardware at launch has been, uh, less than rock-solid. I really don't want to pay $600 for a Disc Read Error three years from now.

We could talk about Nintendo and MS, but there's really no point. Then we have everyone else, and this means retailers and "the media".

As for retailers, all I've heard beyond the "no preorders yet" line is blogs quoting anonymous Gamestop workers. Even assuming the facts relayed in this article are 100% true, the conclusions given are anything but logical. This guy somehow equates "regional manager won't tell me about PS3 yet" plus "Sony and Blueray didn't impress me at our show" to mean that the launch will be a disaster. The logic here is complete bullshit, ignoring any case where the conclusion fails. For example: maybe Sony doesn't really care about EBGamestopExpo that much? Or maybe the higher-ups in Gamestop don't want store managers getting incomplete or tentative information and passing it on to customers? I find it hard to believe that this guy doesn't remember the PS2 launch. Of course, there's a significant chance he/she is 17, so maybe I'm being optimistic on their brain capacity.

Then there's the media. I really have nothing to say here, save that any "analyst" who thinks a PS3 costs $900 to manufacture should be hanged on Wall St. as a warning to not be stupid.

SONY FAN POWERS ACTIVATE (0, Troll)

heinousjay (683506) | about 8 years ago | (#16325455)

Quickly, Sony fans, tag this story as FUD or your favorite company may end up looking stupid.

Re:SONY FAN POWERS ACTIVATE (0)

halivar (535827) | about 8 years ago | (#16325813)

They're too busy scrubbing rootkits off their PC's.

Re:SONY FAN POWERS ACTIVATE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16325983)

True Sony fans love the rootkits, and would never do anything to hurt them.

non-SONY FAN POWERS ACTIVATE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16326913)

Quickly, non-Sony fans(and fanboys of other systems), post some crap about the EVIL company that will end up looking stupid.

....... Do I need to dig up similar crap posted here from before and after the first Xbox launch?

Re:non-SONY FAN POWERS ACTIVATE (0, Troll)

heinousjay (683506) | about 8 years ago | (#16327157)

I don't know, do you need to? All I know is that in every single game-related story, there is a cabal of Sony fans who spend as much time as possible astroturfing. I just wanted to give a heads-up to you guys so you can get your fud tag in. My work was successful.

Alright everybody (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16325471)

Time to break out those "zonked" tags!

TFA (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16325489)

Dammit Arse Technica, I'm sick of four paragraph "articles" dressed up with a shit ton of ads.

TFA:
Gamestop manager: "There is no way the PS3 launch is going to go well."

EBGamestop's big yearly show is over, and boy were managers left in a tizzy afterward. I've had the chance to talk to a few managers I trust on condition of anonymity, and their words don't inspire confidence about the system launches coming up.

"I asked the regional manager about PS3 preorders," one told me "and he paused and then said he can't answer the question. He said there is a plan, but they can't talk about it; we should know in a week to two weeks." He started to sound tired. "Sony just didn't seem like they had a plan with the show. No plan at all. Barely a mention of the PS3, and almost nothing playable. On the other hand, I waited two hours for Gears of War. There is a feeling that Nintendo and Microsoft really set out to wow us, and Sony didn't have much to show. There was a PS3 under glass you could look at, and that's about it."

The difference between HD DVD and Blu-Ray was striking as well. "Blu-ray had a tiny presence in the very back of the show floor, while Microsoft had large displays and surround sound systems in their hospitality suite so you can take a look at what their HD DVD drives would look like. It was impressive, and gave the feeling that HD DVD was real and Blu-ray wasn't ready for the show."

I asked him his feelings going into the PS3 launch with no word on allocations or preorders, and no news on what will happen towards the holidays. "It's going to be ugly, there is no way this launch is going to go well."

Re:TFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16325537)

I was going to flame you, and then I read your justification so I figured I should actually look at the article. But then it looked like the article was only one page.

So I resort to my original stance. Fucking idiot.

This is like Microsoft last year (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | about 8 years ago | (#16325629)

Remember last year? Remember Microsoft botching the XBox 360 launch? Booking too much retail shelf space and not delivering product? Furious retailers? A product with heat dissipation problems? A weak selection of games at launch?

That's where Sony is this year.

2007 for the PS3 will probably look like 2006 for the Xbox 360. The PS3 will slowly launch over the next year, and finally start to sell in volume for the Xmas 2007 season. Probably at a lower price. This will give developers another year to get the Cell processor figured out, so the games will be better.

This is the price of increasing console complexity - the launch phase has more problems.

Re:This is like Microsoft last year (2, Insightful)

powerlord (28156) | about 8 years ago | (#16325831)

I agree with all of that, and even wish Sony well (I hope to purchase a PS3 either this year or next).

One concern on a lot of peoples minds is "But the XBox360 had no competition, while the PS3 will have to compete with the XBox360 which is much more established, and the Wii."

I'm not sure if this is an issue, because you could also say "The XBox360 had the PS2 and GameCube to compete with". Yes, the XBox360 was the first "NextGen" console, but the PS2 is still going strong (THIS year) with lots of great games coming out for it, and the GameCube certainly seems to be aiming for a different market than either of their competitors.

I think you're right that the PS3 will 'launch' over the next year or so and should be just fine, unfortunately people like to complain (and I guess by writing this I'm including myself :) ).

The real question though is whether the PS3 can overtake the XBox360 in terms of units sold, and whether that will be a deciding factor in exclusive titles, ports, and other available content.

Re:This is like Microsoft last year (1)

rudeboy1 (516023) | about 8 years ago | (#16325927)

I agree. In addition, the poor launch will undoubtedly bring about the use of brand recognition in-game to the next-gen consoles. When I first heard about this idea, I was strongly against it, but after giving it some thought, I'd say it benefits the consumer greatly. "The price of increasing console complexity," as you mentioned is going to be high, both in man hours and overall development cost. Adding in logos to backgrounds of cityscapes, ads on the sideline of a basketball court, or billboards on virtual roads will mean that the cost involved in harnessing all this new technology will no longer be solely shouldered by the end-consumer. Plus, as has been mentioned elsewhere, ads are a part of everyday reality. In this way, they will add that much more to modern games by adding that extra degree of immersion. I wonder what a billboard on the side of the road in the next GTA or Gran Tourismo will run? If I had a company, that's something I'd be checking into... Once it's in there, I would imagine it's going to stay in the same spot every time a kid plays that game. Repetitve advertisement is a classic strategy.

Re:This is like Microsoft last year (1)

fitten (521191) | about 8 years ago | (#16329011)

I think it's going to be worse, but similar, yes. With Microsoft releasing the XBox360 "early" and the Wii coming out now, Sony had no choice but to launch now, even though they really wanted to launch in 2007 so they could take advantage of 60nm and maybe 45nm processes for Cell as well as full production Blue-Ray. This was also timed well with the Blue-Ray expected rollout so there'll be a bit of competition for supplying the PS3 and the set-top BR players. Of course, no one could have foreseen the battery issues...

Plus, all the recent changes to the PS3 in a "keeping up with the Joneses" with Wii (controller) and XBox (Live)... Sony is under huge pressure to deliver a product that will even partially work a year earlier than they wanted.

If they can really pull it off, the PS3 should go down in history as one of the greatest product pull-offs.

Re:This is like Microsoft last year (1)

MikeFM (12491) | about 8 years ago | (#16332829)

How many consumers really care how the launch goes? Die hard fans are willing to wait and shell out the big bucks - others just sort of pick the stuff up when they see it on the shelf or see a sale. As long as the systems don't actually suck then it's worth any wait.

Still no Pre-Ordering (1)

kmhebert (586931) | about 8 years ago | (#16325687)

I have been calling EB Games daily and you still can't pre-order. With the launch 6 weeks away it's kind of disconcerting. I plan to pre-order the Wii and a bunch of controllers myself but I have been asking about the PS3 pre-orders out of curiousity. I wonder when that will be decided, does anyone have any inside information?

Re:Still no Pre-Ordering (1)

crossmr (957846) | about 8 years ago | (#16326117)

I have a friend who works for ebgames. He's been told that PS3 pre-orders are for regular customers only at the manager's discretion.

Re:Still no Pre-Ordering (1)

Tim Browse (9263) | about 8 years ago | (#16329119)

Well, that's raw material for at least three Penny Arcade comics right there, surely :-)

Re:Still no Pre-Ordering (3, Interesting)

Grave (8234) | about 8 years ago | (#16326189)

Nobody knows, because Sony doesn't know how many they can really promise to each retailer yet. Sure they claimed 400,000 units at launch for the US. Other companies have claimed higher numbers much closer to launch dates only to change their figures at the last minute.

GameStop is taking the sensible approach of waiting to do pre-orders until Sony (and Nintendo) give them guaranteed allocations. Nintendo is likely to be able to restock all retailers pretty quickly (relatively speaking). However, I expect if you don't get a PS3 on launch day, you will not see another one until January. Unless of course for some reason they can't move 100,000 systems at the midnight launch in Japan. If THAT happens, the US will get the next batch rather than Japan, I expect. Either way, the 360 launch was smooth sailing in comparison to what Sony is facing. I just hope we aren't reading about murders or deadly stampedes on the morning of 11/17.

A lot of people who would otherwise buy a PS3 are turned off by the sticker shock, especially since the general expectation for so long had been that it would be close to the 360 in pricing. No doubt the first 2-3 million units will fly off shelves without problem. It's May/June of 2007 that we start seeing real indicators of public reaction to the system. If sales aren't surpassing the 360 by that point (presuming production volume is high enough), then it's time to start really questioning the ability of Sony to retain that #1 spot.

Re:Still no Pre-Ordering (1)

krotkruton (967718) | about 8 years ago | (#16326191)

When I was at Best Buy a month or so ago, I asked about pre-ordering the PS3 and was told that they weren't going to allow pre-orders for any new consoles anymore after the problem with the XBox 360. A local retailer told me the same.

Inside Out (5, Insightful)

ectal (949842) | about 8 years ago | (#16325807)

There seems to be a big difference between the industry's perception of the PS3 and the public perception. Most average Joes I run across seem to be anticipating the PS3. But they can't explain why beyond the branding. "Oh, I really like the PS2, so..." Industry people and industry watchers are talking more and more about Sony's lack of strategy, Blu Ray concerns, hardware problems, price, etc. More and more, the assumption that Sony will once again dominate is dissipating. So I think the most interesting thing about the PS3 launch will be watching what happens with word of mouth once the console is out. Should we expect, "Oh man, the new Playstation might be expensive, but it's so cool! You need it!" Should we expect, "Oh man, my brother got a PS3 and all the games suck." What's going to happen? Is the PS branding going to crash and burn? Will everyone just save up to buy it because PlayStation has become synonymous with game console to them? Will it just do okay? I'll be sure to read all about it during my short breaks from the Wii.

Re:Inside Out (1)

skorch (906936) | about 8 years ago | (#16326057)

I'd say pretty much anyone who actually buys the PS3 is going to say it's awesome (and obnoxious fanboys and Sony's arrogance aside, it probably will be) and people who don't bother will say it's eh. The question really is is it $600 awesome? Is it really $200 to $300 more awesome than the competition? Some people will think it is, and some won't. Just how many is what we're all waiting to see, but it seems most of the savvy and informed people are pretty apprehensive, and most of the people who don't care (a set which includes the vast majority of consumers) are either unworried or excited.

Really, if price weren't an issue, would you not get a PS3 over a 360? So if you're not the one buying (e.g. "Hey son, whatchu want for Christmas?") then which would you get? Well, I know I'll be getting myself a Wii, but I can afford one of those myself anyway. If some rich benefactor wanted to buy me a PS3 because he heard it was teh roxxors I wouldn't exactly say no thanks. I still probably wouldn't recommend it to one of my less informed friends though.

Re:Inside Out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16326193)

Not really. More likely what will happen is that everyone will be too busy playing their PS2s this winter to care about the PS3, which no one can find anyway except a couple of hardcore ubergamers. Eventually the PS3's actually worthwhile games will start coming out, and the PS3 will begin to show up on the public consciousness of the zomg madden set. Meanwhile, Nintendo will flood the market with Wiis this winter and be tearing it up among everyone who's sick of the direction the video game industry is heading in.

Well part of the problem they have (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 8 years ago | (#16326437)

Is even at that price, they are likely to sell out almost immediately. Ok great, except that means that many people will be left contemplating another option. The word of mouth that will be dangerous is word of mouth about the Wii, but particularly the 360 (since it's more expensive and a more direct competitor). If they miss out on the PS3, but they hear great things about the 360, maybe they decide to take the jump. Once they do, that's probably it. For most people, 1 expensive next gen console will be it. They might get a Wii as well because of the price but the 360 and PS3 market will be pretty small.

That I think is the real concern here. It's not that the launch has to meet up to some certain standard of Sony quality, it's that it has to be good enough to convince people to hold on to their dollars and wait for more PS3s to come out rather than get a 360. I'll bet you MS drops a $100 price reduction and Halo 3 on the launch as well.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (0)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | about 8 years ago | (#16327065)

It's not that the launch has to meet up to some certain standard of Sony quality, it's that it has to be good enough to convince people to hold on to their dollars and wait for more PS3s to come out rather than get a 360.

This is the very place I am sitting right now. I am getting a Wii on release day. At its price and potential, it is an easy buy for me. But for my hardcore system, I'm going to have to wait.

This is no small statement. After purchasing a playstation halfway through its lifecycle I was hooked. I reserved a PS2 and bought games for it like it was going out of style. When it broke, I did some research online and learned how to fix it myself. This is not something that should be tried by the less informed, and I knew it. Still I thought Sony could do no wrong. I was a Playstation fanboi.

Rootkit. Who cares. Thats Sony Music, not the games division. I was still looking forward to the PS3.

XBOX 360 is released with a ton of problems. GREAT! I hate Microsoft for trying to come into video games and buy a slice. I hated HALO, especially online. Sorry, but SOCOM is just better. I hope the XBOX 360 goes down in flames!

Then something happened. The PS3 wouldn't have rumble. OK, not a deal killer, but I am disappointed. I guess I can get over it. Next I began to see exclusive titles become cross platform. GTA IV has XBOX exclusive content? WTH? The next gen Spliter Cell is an XBOX 360 exclusive!!!! The guy who jumped off from Square/Enix is making an RPG available on the 360? The only thing that is keeping me looking at the PS3 are Final Fantasy games and the hope of future SOCOM releases.

This has allowed something to happen that Sony should really worry about. A true Sony fanboi has serious doubt now. I am not buying the PS3 sight unseen. I'm not preordering it. I'm going to let Microsoft and Sony fight it out for a little while. Not only that, but I might be persuaded early to jump ship depending on the quality of Final Fantasy VII. I'm not a fan of the action RPG take on the game. If it doesn't feel like a FF game, I'll jump ship as that's really the only thing keeping me looking at Sony right now.

This is coming from a person who detests Microsofts foray into gaming, and was blindly faithful to Sony. My personal perspective is that if I feel this way, others do to - and that is something that Sony should be really afraid of.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (1)

conigs (866121) | about 8 years ago | (#16327721)

I hate Microsoft for trying to come into video games and buy a slice.

I'm not defending Microsoft here, because this is exactly what they are doing. However, you are aware that Sony was doing the same thing with the Playstation, right?

It's really a moot point, though, since any new console maker will be trying to "buy into" the gaming market. (You have to spend money to make money.) The recent trend of the loss leader/razors and blades business models in gaming is even more evidence of this.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (1)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | about 8 years ago | (#16327849)

oh yeah. I was trying to illustrate my fanboi-ness.

Actually, Sony was trying to get back at Nintendo for a business deal gone bad. Sony was actually in partnership with Nintendo to make a disk based gaming system. Nintendo decided to drop it and left Sony holding the bag. Sony was like "ok fine. Watch this shit" and dropped the technology as the Playstation. Kicking Nintendo out of the top dog slot and making them regret the decision ever since.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (2, Insightful)

MeanderingMind (884641) | about 8 years ago | (#16328007)

Actually, I doubt Nintendo regretted jumping ship but more regretted not paying attention to their stupid lawyers.

The whole thing with Sony and later Phillips came long before the term "Intellectual Property" was coined. Nintendo's lawyers didn't seem to have the understanding that Mario, Link, Samus and crew were important and valuable assests that shouldn't be thrown around. The contracts they drew up (both times no less) would have granted Sony complete control over everything released on the new systems, relegating Nintendo from "partner" to "third party developer". It wasn't until Yamauchi himself read the contract with Sony three years after its conception that the mistake was discovered.

I'm sure that Nintendo does not regret jumping ship on deals that would have ultimately lead them to play second (or even third) fiddle to other companies. What they do regret is not hiring better lawyers.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (1)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | about 8 years ago | (#16329845)

I agree.

But it still makes me wonder how Nintendo reacted internally when they saw their group effort used against them. They were the king at that point and lost their position to a spurned conspirator.

Nonetheless, My original point was how I, as a loyal and fanatical Sony fanboi, have changed into a more objective consumer based on multiple events that individually don't create a significant opportunity for competition, but in the aggregate are worth more than the sum of their parts.

If Sony really does have all their eggs in this basket, they should have paid better attention to their actions as a whole.

Re:Well part of the problem they have (1)

TheQuantumShift (175338) | about 8 years ago | (#16332537)

"I'll bet you MS drops a $100 price reduction and Halo 3 on the launch as well."

Not a chance. Maybe if the ps3 were even $100 less (400-500), Microsoft might think about a $50 price drop. But at the currently stated prices, they have a $100 to $300 lead already.

At the very best I can see a $450 bundle of premium system, extra controller, and a 2-fer pack in like the one in '04 (NCAA 05 / Top Spin). And thats if we sacrifice forty two virgins to the gaming gods...

Re:Well part of the problem they have (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 8 years ago | (#16333823)

Ahh but don't forget that 65nm is coming to the masses. Both IBM and ATi are looking at shrinking the chips for the 360. That reduces costs. MS is quite willing to take a loss on hardware if it means winning out the market (or at least they seem to be).

Do they need to drop the price? No but it'd really fuck Sony and I'm betting they are thinking along those lines. Wait until Sony commits to a release date, make sure your sources have confirmed that everything is go, the units are going to distributors warehouses and such. They hit back with a price drop and say "Oh and look what we found in our back pocket, why it's Halo 3!" All of a sudden the hype machine that should be chattering about nothing but Sony is split with two topics to cover, and it's even harder for people to spend their cash on a PS3.

Re:Inside Out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16327471)

Should we expect, "Oh man, my brother got a PS3 and all the games suck."

Regardless of whether the PS3 turns out to be horrible or not, anyone who just payed $500 or $600 for the console is not going to say that it sucks.

Re:Inside Out (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | about 8 years ago | (#16328599)

You forgot one key fact: people are stupid. If you simply remember this, many things make sense without lots of complex logic and speculation (like you just posted).

Perhaps related to the first point, we should also remember that there is often one product or implementation of something that is seized upon and becomes synonymous with it, no matter if it's the "best" or anything like that. Cases in point: Microsoft Windows, Kleenex, and the Ipod. These things are near-synonymous with the ideas they represent.

Then we have the Playstation. This little system came out at the right time with the right elements to become near-synonymous with video games. My theory is that this "transcendence", if you will, occurs when the product/implementation offers something completely new while at the same time not sucking too much. These aren't the only criteria, because if they were then the Macintosh would've destroyed the PC, so perhaps another requirement is how (and by whom) the product is marketed.

The Playstation fits this category. It arrived just as 3D graphics and CD-based media were becoming viable for console video games. The N64 failed on this front, as cartridges couldn't hold near the amount of data that CDs do.

This is also a point in time in which I see a shift in the video game industry. In America, games had mostly been seen as toys for children. Whether or not the PS was the actual thing that changed this, it is certainly the most iconic representation of it. They started running ads in places like MTV, and if I remember correctly a lot of the early ads were humorous or violent, targeting the "male 18-34" category. AKA the demographic with lots of disposable income. Another factor may have been that the old companies were associated with a "kiddie" image, and Sony was NEW and HARDC0R3 (MS seems to be trying to reach the people who enjoy thinking this).

Oh and about the Saturn: the Saturn doesn't fit into this discussion very well because Sega was doing very well at screwing themselves. It wasn't hard for Sony or Nintendo to "beat" a company that was giving itself negative points.

Fast forward to today, and Sony is still riding the wave that started ten years ago. In my opinion, not a lot has changed. The PS brought about an era in which graphics and cinema-realism bullshit were put on a pedestal.

Personally, I think this era is ending. Moore's Law was very kind during '95-99 and '99-06, however I think we're reaching a breaking point. GPUs are powerful enough that a top-end one requires a very high-resolution display to enjoy. And as cool as HDTV is, it's still not here economically or content-wise (plus it's confusing as hell). Worse, what happens 10 or 15 years from now when GPUs need a screen better than 1920x1080p? The irony is that one of the techs Moore's law doesn't apply to is screen resolutions.

Personally, I also think this is the reason Nintendo stands to do well with the Wii. If the graphical arms race was really the best way to make money, Nintendo would be all over it (they like making money, it seems). The fact that they're going off in another direction completely kind of signals that something might be wrong.

Also, I think that radically changing the controller is a good way to spark developers' imaginations. The D-Pad was a huge improvement on the joystick/paddle. The same could be said for the analog stick and shoulder trigger. But a motion-sensing controller is really something we've never seen before, at least in a general-purpose home console. I laughed out loud when I saw a video of someone fishing in the Wii Zelda, and hopefully lots of other cool things like that will surface. Games could use an injection of new ideas.

Um yeah, so this post is way too long. I think I remember now why I stopped drinking caffeine. (caffeine + ADD = this post)

Sony will not mess up that bad... (2, Interesting)

RexRhino (769423) | about 8 years ago | (#16325897)

Sony has a huge mindshare... there are a whole generation of kids who use the word "Playstation" interchangably with "Game Console". There is a huge Sony fanboy presence on the internet. Sony is in decent shape.

They might lose a lot of ground to the 360, but they are not going to be wiped out of the market. The console race will just be more of a split, instead of Sony dominating everything like the last generation.

Re:Sony will not mess up that bad... (1)

rudeboy1 (516023) | about 8 years ago | (#16326029)

There is a great article in last month's Wired you should read about how Sony has effectively put all it's eggs in one basket. If the PS3 doesn't do fantastically well in worldwide sales, Sony could be in serious trouble.

Re:Sony will not mess up that bad... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16326083)

Sony has a huge mindshare... there are a whole generation of kids who use the word "Playstation" interchangably with "Game Console". There is a huge Sony fanboy presence on the internet. Sony is in decent shape.

This sounds so familiar ... where have I heard this before ...

"Nintendo has a huge mindshare... there is a whole generation of children who use the word 'Nintendo' interchangable with 'Game Console'. There is a huge Nintendo fanboy presence on the internet. Nintendo is in decent shape."

The fact is that the videogame industry (like the Movie and Music industry) is amazingly fickle and previous performance is in no way connected to future performance. The only reason Nintendo has survived is that Nintendo has an excellent track record with producing high quality games, and is one of the largest publishers in the world; in an average year for Nintendo 20% of videogames sold are Nintendo published games (in 2006 35% of games sold in Japan, and 21.5% of games sold in North America are Nintendo games). Sony as a game publisher is large (about 8% worldwide) and produced a reasonable quality product but doesn't have the ability to carry a console alone.

The question with the PS3 isn't whether it will perform poorly, but how poorly it will perform. Consider that, with hardware shortages and the high price, Sony will be reasonably lucky to have 6 Million consoles sold by June 2007 while Microsoft will probably be approaching 15 Million XBox 360s sold (and Nintendo will probably have 10 Million Wiis sold); if you're a game publisher you are not going to be risking $20 Million to $40 Million on an exclusive game for a system that has sold half as much as the competition and Sony will lose the control of third party publishers.

Re:Sony will not mess up that bad... (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | about 8 years ago | (#16342815)

The only reason Nintendo has survived is that Nintendo has an excellent track record with producing high quality games...

Actually, this isn't true. While I do agree with your first statement that there's a whole generation (my generation or parents of my generation, 1979 baby!) who grew up with Nintendo and uses or used "Nintendo" interchangably with "video games".

Anyway, back to point. Nintendo's golden age, the '80's, was the Microsoft of the game industry. They strong armed retailers and forced the market to stay in a Monopolistic way. That's why when Sega fought Nintendo for power, they became the 'cool' Linux like company to gamers. Nintendo also created what's called 'the seal of approval' that they stamped on their games (you might remember that gold filed star on your old NES games). Sure, once upon a time this 'seal' was to meet 'quality' standards, but really, it just became the "we paid Nintendo the right amount of license fees". Soon, the NES was pumping out crap after crap, much the same way the PSOne did and to some degree the PS2. Why? Because it was a "if you build it, they will come" mentality. Just making a NES game almost gaurenteed profit for your company due to the high installation base of not just gamers but rental stores who purcahsed copies (think of all the blockbuster stores and mom and pop rental stores!)

Now, fast forward to the Playstation dynasty. Nintendo is being a hard-ass and Sony is breaking into the market and offering low cost licenses. Companies jump ship to Sony. Sony's installation base goes up and after tossing enough darts at the board, they tend to hit a few key titles that make the system shine (Resident Evil, Twisted Metal, etc). Now, Sony has the installation base and the market and keep costs down for production. 3rd Party companies can almost guarentee profits from a game... except not as much as the cost of production is climbing faster than profits and sales.

Enter the GameCube / PS2 era. GameCube gets flack for it's 'less than powerful' system, and looses the 'carry-over' from the previous generation (N64/PSOne). It's also given the bad PR of being 'too kiddy'. The gaming generation is maturing and wants more 'real' violence, blood and gore. Sony delivers while Nintendo stays 'family friendly'. 3rd party support wans for Nintendo. It doesn't have it's massive installation base. Only 'sure fire' games can be made because there's much less of a chance of making a profit. This causes only 'quality' titles to appear on the GCube, such as Metroid, Zelda, Mario(et.al), and the rare Resident Evil 4.

You see, in reality, Nintendo and Sony still find similar 'quality' titles for their systems, however, only the biggest market share system will have endless crappy games. Of course, this is also changing due to skyrocketing development costs, meaning it's heading towards the 'only quality titles' area as you HAVE to sell enough to turn a profit.

Nintendo is drawing 3rd party support, NOT just for it's 'revolutionary' controller, but because development costs are also predicted to be less. I also believe they proved to the industry that "powerful" does not make "better", by example of Resident Evil 4, which is one of the best games I've played and looked fantastic on the GameCube. I also belive the who 'better graphics' push is tappering off to a ceiling limit. Gamers are quite satisfied with the animation ability of consoles today. Such much, that if we make games any more realistic but don't allow you to slap on a VR helmet and actaully 'walk' around the virtual world, they won't be satisfied. This is why Nintendo is moving into the motion sensor controller. Technology is fantastic when it comes to graphics. Hell, there's basketball games out there that are almost like watching a real game. But you still don't feel like you're "playing" the game.

Maybe games don't want to 'simulate' basketball, because they can go outside or to the gym for the real thing, but they cannot simulate (cheaply) war, suspense/action, kung-fu, sci-fi, stories in real life. It's simply put, that it's time to shift gaming from 'graphics' to interaction. Story, game-play, and graphics will always continue to advance naturally. It's this interaction we've all been missing. Even if we're just limiting the uses of it right now.

Cheers!

*picks up his basket ball and goes outside*

Re:Sony will not mess up that bad... (1)

shawb (16347) | about 8 years ago | (#16326447)

And before that was a generation of kids who used "sega" interchangably with video games (I remember hearing the sentence "You wanna come over and play some Sega? I just got the new Bond (Goldeneye for the N64.) Before that even parents were referring to the "intendo the kids are playing these days." Before that, it was Atari. And now? It's Xbox that's the generic term.

But then again, I also thought the 360 was going to utterly fail. Realistically, there are ome pretty cool games for it. I really don't think Sony has that killer app [slashdot.org] yet. We'll see.

Nintendo did... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16341461)

Nintendo used to be synonymous with video games, man. That didn't stop them from losing most of the market they once had a monopoly on when they made a series of terrible mistakes with the N64. And the sheer number of stupid moves Sony has made with the PS3 puts Nintendo's N64 fuck ups to shame. No one is invincible. Nintendo got arrogant and paid the price for it. Now it's Sony's turn if they don't deliver.

-Moses

Three things to think about with the PS3 rollout (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16325903)

1. Sony has already slashed the number of units being delivered, due to anticipated lack of demand in the US and EU. This will create an artificial shortage so that they can try to spin it into buzz about how people want PS3 consoles. They already figure that the Wii will sell four times as many consoles in the US and EU as the PS3 will. Shipments prove this.

2. If you don't have a really big HDTV that currently uses 1080p, you probably won't care one whit about Blu-Ray for at least three years - by which point there will be another choice of better game consoles to be concerned with.

3. All of the DRM flavor is still baked in. Yum!

Re:Three things to think about with the PS3 rollou (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | about 8 years ago | (#16326175)

Um, no, it's not due to lack of demand, it's due to lack of components. Apparently the US government ordered too many for their special operations sharks.

Re:Three things to think about - sharks? (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16326955)

Apparently the US government ordered too many for their special operations sharks.

Are those the ones with the frickin Blu-Ray lasers on their heads?

Even 720p far superiour (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 8 years ago | (#16326239)

Yes the sets that do 1080p are still a few k (but dropping).

However people have been buying sets for some time capible of at least 720p, with 1080i input allowed and downsampled.

Even at 720p HD content looks WAY better than DVD's. So there are a lot of people who are going to benefit from the new content, even if the displays they have are not the latest thing. For those that do have 1080p... well I envy them. But I'll not have to for long as display prices are dropping pretty rapidly.

Re:Three things to think about with the PS3 rollou (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16326407)

Glad the 360 and Wii are DRM free...

Re:Three things to think about with the PS3 rollou (1)

Osty (16825) | about 8 years ago | (#16326419)

Sony has already slashed the number of units being delivered, due to anticipated lack of demand in the US and EU. This will create an artificial shortage so that they can try to spin it into buzz about how people want PS3 consoles.

They slashed the number of units being delivered because they can't produce enough units. Sony is still in their magical Kutaragi bubble where everybody will get a second job so they can buy a PS3. If it was just a matter of anticipated lack of demand, Sony would be full speed ahead and damn the torpedos. Which they are doing anyway, it's just "full speed" means "a paltry amount of consoles for NA and Japan, and none for EU".

They already figure that the Wii will sell four times as many consoles in the US and EU as the PS3 will. Shipments prove this.

The Wii will sell four times as many consoles in the US because they will ship four times as many (if not more). And they'll sell infinitely times as many consoles in EU because Sony's not shipping there yet. It's a numbers game -- if you can only get 400,000 consoles on the market, there's no way you're going to sell 1.6million.

If you don't have a really big HDTV that currently uses 1080p, you probably won't care one whit about Blu-Ray for at least three years - by which point there will be another choice of better game consoles to be concerned with.

And this is why it's stupid for Sony to try to shove Blu-Ray down our throats. That said, the extra graphical horsepower of a PS3 or Xbox 360 will still be impressive on an SDTV simply due to more polygons and more budget for effects. You won't get the benefit of higher resolution textures, but PS3 games will still look much better than PS2 games on the same TV (just as 360 games look better than Xbox games).

As for another console being out in three years, don't bet on it. Maybe that will be true if Microsoft holds to the same 4 year cycle as they did with the Xbox, but I doubt that will happen. They entered this generation early because it was imperative to beat Sony and Nintendo to the punch. If that pans out for them, expect the Xbox 360 to have at least a 5 year lifespan before there's an Xbox 720 (or whatever it'll be called). And Sony expects the PS3 to last for 10 years, so don't hold your breath for a PS4 unless you can wait until 2015 ...

Re:Three things to think about magic polygons (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16327039)

And this is why it's stupid for Sony to try to shove Blu-Ray down our throats. That said, the extra graphical horsepower of a PS3 or Xbox 360 will still be impressive on an SDTV simply due to more polygons and more budget for effects. You won't get the benefit of higher resolution textures, but PS3 games will still look much better than PS2 games on the same TV (just as 360 games look better than Xbox games).

Agreed, but I just can't see an ad for the PS3: "Now, with extra polygons!"

Yet another FPS or sports game with extra super polygons really just doesn't work. We want Hillary Duff in Sim 2: Pets, or Katamari Damacy, or Dance Dance Revolution: Sudden Death Danceoff, or Super Mario Underwater Twister Teleport Tango, or Spore.

Different trends among consoles: Sony picks badly (3, Interesting)

jchenx (267053) | about 8 years ago | (#16327467)

I see some different trends among the next-gen consoles.
  • 360 - Tag line is "Jump in", emphasis on all the Live services, and being part of a "living, breathing" community (Gamescore, achievements, Live Marketplace, Live Arcade, etc.)
  • Wii - Emphasis on innovation, being "Mom-friendly", brand new control scheme found nowhere else
  • PS3 - Focus on Blu-ray and "HD only begins with us!" (1080p, HDMI)

(I'm ignoring the PS3's attempt at their own network service, as they haven't really talked much about it, or their own motion-sensing controller, as those don't really distinguish themselves apart from the others ... it seems too much of a "me too" approach)

Network services for the 360? Big hit for a lot of folks, especially considering broadband penetration in the US is rapidly increasing. New control scheme for the Wii? Very popular, particularly with gamers that are becoming disillusioned with the current type of games (more graphics, less gameplay, and less fun).

The trend that Sony is focusing on, unfortunately for them, is something that the vast majority of users won't care about. They don't have an HDTV, much less one that does 1080p or perhaps does HDMI.

What Sony SHOULD have done is just focus on their massive developer support, and on the games themselves. They've certainly talked about it with the PS3, but that message is diluted too much with the rest of the Blu-ray, 1080p, SIXAXIS talk going on. If all they did was thump their chest and focus on the games, they would have sold a lot more people on the PS3 (myself included).

Artificial shortage = FUD (1)

jchenx (267053) | about 8 years ago | (#16326989)

1. Sony has already slashed the number of units being delivered, due to anticipated lack of demand in the US and EU. This will create an artificial shortage so that they can try to spin it into buzz about how people want PS3 consoles. They already figure that the Wii will sell four times as many consoles in the US and EU as the PS3 will. Shipments prove this.
I agree with your last two statements. But the first one? FUD!

It's the same thing folks threw out with the 360 launch. They couldn't imagine that people would actually be willing to buy the console, so there MUST have been an artificial shortage ... right? Bzzzt. It's just good 'ole, "supply unable to keep up with demand". MS just couldn't make enough of the boxes. With the recent news of 2005-created 360s having possible manufacturing problems, I think we have an idea why there was a shortage: not enough consoles to meet the quality bar, and arguably, too many that still shipped despite of it.

It's going to be the same with the PS3, but worse. The production of brand new hardware always has wrinkles in it, as well as general quality issues. Then there's also the news of a shortage of blue lasers, which is affecting high-def DVD manufacturers everywhere.

Despite all the (seemingly unending) bad news about Sony, there are still going to be legions of fanbois clamoring for a console come launch day. And there will undoubtedly be a lot of entrepreneurs hoping to snag a PS3 or two (or a dozen), so they can resell them on eBay for big bucks. Anyone remember the awful rumors of GameStop employees hiding 360 boxes in the backroom, so that they could sell them for a huge profit later? Expect a repeat of that again this year.

All in all, a shortage is not a good thing for a console manufacturer, even for one that is sold at a loss. The sooner you get the platform in people's hands, the sooner they can start buying games and high-def movies. Sony's already has mind-share and buzz, even though it's not all positive. It doesn't need anymore negative news of parents and gamers complaining that they can't get a console and are looking to spend their $500-600 elsewhere (Wii or 360).

Re:Artificial shortage = FUD (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 years ago | (#16327123)

Hey, I'm just going off the articles in my print edition of the Wall Street Journal. If you have some magic story in GameStop that has as good research into the supply chain, please post it.

After all, WalMart is saying they can't even do well because gas prices are too high, and they have some of the cheapest supply contracts in the industry ...

Re:Artificial shortage = FUD (1)

jchenx (267053) | about 8 years ago | (#16327267)

You can read more about SCEA's official response [ign.com] , which blamed the reduction on the component shortage. Notice, however, that Sony is still sticking to their final fiscal year numbers. I'm pretty sure they would have gotten slammed pretty hard in the stock market if they reduced that estimate. But having the launch shortage will obviously make it harder to "catch up" to those finale estimates. That's why I'm saying an artificial shortage is crazy.

The fact still remains (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16325969)

The XBox 360 and Playstation 3 will give you 1080, while Pretendo will give you Piss. Sony & Microsoft are at least thinking ahead while Pretendo simply repackaged the Gamecube as another system and still decided to use 'Never Twice the Same Colour.' HDTV sets will be less expensive next year and the average Joe Sixpack should be able to purchase it in no more than two years, Standard Def in no more than one year. The reason why I call Nintendo 'pretendo' is because they pretend the world is not moving forward with better technology. If they don't wake up soon, they may join Sega by getting out of the console business. They also pretend that mario, link, pikachu, and other old overused characters will still save them.

Re:The fact still remains (1)

heinousjay (683506) | about 8 years ago | (#16326033)

Yeah, that whiney screed will stop the PS3 from flopping hard.

Re:The fact still remains (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16326129)

Yeah right. HDTV has many years to go before it is even on anyone's radar. 5 or 10 years at least. By then there will be a whole new set of game consoles anyway.

I mean crap, people have already been talking like you about HDTV for over 10 years and it's still not even slightly popular.

Re:The fact still remains (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | about 8 years ago | (#16327201)

I have to call bull here. There are a fairly decent number of people who are fanatical about HD. Take a look around www.avsforum.com if you doubt me. I took the plunge a couple months ago and purchased a Pioneer 930 Elite and despite being blow away by the awesomeness that is HD; I have no interest in the 360 or the PS3. I bought my system for TV and movies. In my opinion, it is the games themselves that are not ready for HD. They need to focus on gameplay, story, physics and AI before they even consider HD.

Re:The fact still remains (2, Insightful)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 8 years ago | (#16326157)

I take it you've never see a progressive-compatible game such as Metroid Prime 2 via component cables? Who cares about the screen resolution if the actual graphics look the same (shading, etc).

The PSP is also superior to the DS (I've changed my mind since the first time I saw it because the game I saw had crappy 3D) yet the DS is out-selling the PSP by a huge margin. The Gamecube and Xbox had superior graphics over the PS2, yet the PS2 was (and still is) king of the market. Better technology doesn't equal better marketshare (nor better games).

As for their characters, as long as the games are well made and fun, I'll be buying a Nintendo console if only for Zelda and Metroid, along with the great "out of nowhere" games like Pikmin.

Have fun with your boring "first person shooter #50" hi-definition games.

Re:The fact still remains (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16327143)

I'll be buying a Nintendo console if only for Zelda and Metroid, along with the great "out of nowhere" games like Pikmin.

Yes, because as we all know there are very few great concept games ever to be published on a Sony console. Frankly I am amazed for all the bitching about price that you see for the PS3 you don't once hear people around here pissing and moaning that the controler for the Wii will cost $60, multiply that by 3 (at least I would since Nintendo generally has fantastic 4P games) and you've got yourself a hefty chunk of change. All I'm saying is stop making wild acusations about systems when there is really no comparison to be had. Do the smart thing and hold off for 6 months while the 3 duke it out, by then HDTV's will have dropped substantially (they've already dropped by around a grand this year) and there will be a much better Idea of what each company has to offer in relation to one another.

Re:The fact still remains (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 8 years ago | (#16327615)

Having hi-def doesn't exclude good games (and frankly, I'm waiting for the PSP to drop in price so I can buy LocoRoco), but it seems that every Xbox 360 and PS3 fanboy can only talk about hi-def graphics and nothing else.

I don't want hi-def graphics if they look like today's systems. The Xbox 360 graphics look pretty much the same as the graphics on the Xbox (but in hi-def). I do agree that the PS3 seems to be the real winner as far as "next-gen graphics" go, but I'll wait until I see a real unit running before judging on the graphics themselves. I recall pre-rendered trailers and fake screenshots for the PS2, so I'm not taking Sony's word for granted on that subject. And just because HDTV prices drop doesn't mean that people will buy them. I, for one, plan to use my Toshiba 36" CRT "HDTV ready" set until it dies. Not everyone keeps updating to the latest technology.

As for the added cost of additionnal controllers for the Wii, I except the same can be said for both the Xbox 360 and the PS3. And even if the Wii-mote+nunchuck is more expensive than either an Xbox 360 or PS3 controller, it's not by much (it's not like PS3 controllers are 20$). The total cost for a four-players setup on all consoles probably still puts the Wii as the least expensive system.

Re:The fact still remains (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16327859)

Not to mention different series like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or other exciting PS3 Exclusives. Nintendo's games are just basically, IMO carbon copy sequels. Final Fantasy has different characters in each game, not to mention excellent gameplay, storyline, and challenge. Blueray & hd-dvd will be better even at standard def, as there will be more room on the Disc for better quality video unlike DVD that is full of artifacts. The better processing power of the PS3 and XBox 360 will allow more depth in the games.

The reason why the PS2 was popular was
It used DVDs, more space than the proprietary shit Nintendo used
Backwards compatibility with the PS1, which couldn't be done with the Gamecube as Nintendo stuck with carts for the N64
Not to mention, DVD Video playback, better exclusive games, better controllers, and most of all a Linux kit.

Back to the topic, I think the reason why the Gamestop managers are worried over the PS3 launch is they will not have enough units to cover the demand. As such they will run out of PS3s. Have fun with your Carbon Copy mario,zelda, etc.

Re:The fact still remains (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | about 8 years ago | (#16328245)

Well Carbon Copy it really depends. I have a DS and I checked out recently a friends Cube... I would not call Nintendo games exactly carbon copy, they rely on some basic concepts yes and the same characters, but from every generation to every generation they try to push new concepts and genres within their character domain. What I see from most other japanese game makers is endless sequels of the same game with new stories same game mechanics. From most other US companies endless sequels even without stories. Nintendo is one of the few companies which really try to push new game ideas and sometimes fail but most of the times their games are excellent. This is one of the reasons why the DS won over the psp, the psp simply was the plain old, sports car racing here, shooter there while the ds had new gaming ideas, some gaming ideas taken from the pc world, and excellent old content renewed in a new fasion. As for the final fantasies, i hate japanes rpgs, no matter if they are final fantasy or mario rpg or whatever. I take a ultima or gothic over final fantasy any day. Japanese style RPG always feels like being forced on rails, and even while the final fantasies have advanced graphicswise, I see them as a phenomenon which simply shows the problems of modern gaming, way better graphics more movies, same old boring game mechanics, the same goes for most shooters btw...

Have you ever actually played a Nintendo game? (1)

LKM (227954) | about 8 years ago | (#16333963)

Nintendo's games are just basically, IMO carbon copy sequels.

Okay, three options here: You have never played Nintendo games and simply don't know what youre talking about; you're a Sony/MS fanboy who choses to ignore reality; you're insane.

Take your pick.

Nintendo generally doesn't actually do sequels. They do franchises.

Now, first of all, let's get the sequels out of the way: there are Nintendo published sequels. Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime 2, Super Mario Bros 2 (Lost Levels, not the US/EU doki doki panic version), lots of the Pokémon games.

But most of Nintendo's so-called sequels actually aren't.

Is Super Mario 64 a sequel to Super Mario World? Is Wind Waker a sequel to Ocarina of Time? They re-use gameplay mechanics, they re-use characters and storylines, but they're totally different games. This is not "Madden 2004 vs. Madden 2005." Lots of these "Nintendo sequels" actually get tons of heat because they're too different from the previous versions - Double Dash, for example. And what about all the wholly new franchises which Nintendo creates?

Yeah, Nintendo re-uses its characters a lot. There's a Mario entry in every genre except first person shooters. That doesn't mean these games are "carbon copy sequels," and this is not a matter of opinion, either.

Re:Have you ever actually played a Nintendo game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16338715)

"Is Super Mario 64 a sequel to Super Mario World? Is Wind Waker a sequel to Ocarina of Time?"

Actually, I would say "yes" to the second one. Zelda games always seem similar and very much sequels - even the 2D to 3D jump didn't make that much difference. But most of the deranged anti-N fanboys out there consider Mario Strikers a sequel to Mario Bros! There's no point using logic here, just take heart that they will never breed.

HD allows more useful draw distance (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 years ago | (#16328829)

Who cares about the screen resolution if the actual graphics look the same (shading, etc).

In high definition, the player can see farther away without having enemies turn into a blob of pixels no bigger than a micro-goomba from Super Mario Bros. 3. By similar triangles, a screen that's twice as tall (1080i vs. last generation's 480i) should allow over twice as much useful draw distance.

Re:HD allows more useful draw distance (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 8 years ago | (#16350373)

That's the one factor that really puts HD ahead of SD, you make a good point.

However, I'd rather have 640x480p graphics of better quality than hi-def graphics of about the same quality as the previous generation of consoles.

Re:The fact still remains (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | about 8 years ago | (#16327257)

They don't pretend the world isn't moving, they decided it's not profitable to do HD.

Re:The fact still remains (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16328467)

Yep, just like the decision to stick with cartridges on the N64 was profitable. Oh wait.............

Re:The fact still remains (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16328681)

Hold on, the N64 was HUGELY profitable.

In fact in the last 200 quarters, Nintendo has only ever had one 3 month period when they weren't profitable.

Can you back it up with some proof, how the N64 wasn't profitable?

Re:The fact still remains (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 years ago | (#16330817)

Nintendo Corporate profits/losses N64 Profits/losses

It could help, but they do have things other than consoles. Also, a nintendo console could be a total success and Nintendo could still be at an overall loss.

At the time the N64 was sold, pokemon was very popular, not just their Gameboy games, but also licensing of pokemon plush, pokemon cards, pokemon the series, pokemon toothpaste, you get the picture. That is where most of their money came from at the time. The sales of the N64 were so bad that they dropped the N64 almost immedately once the gamecube was released. The N64's biggest anchor was their decision to use the cartridges instead of using CDs. Other considerations is how they treated their 3rd party developers. That is another reason why they started going to Sony. If Nintendo would have just gone with the CD at a decent speed, the N64 would have torn the playstation apart, especially with the memory expansion. But Nintendo, similar with today with 1080 capabilities, just thought it wouldn't be profitable with CDs. They were wrong, as again it actually hurt them.

The Wii-mote, on the other hand could save them, or it could pose to be another hinderance similar to Rob the Robot & the Power Pad.

Re:The fact still remains (2, Insightful)

wckdjugallo (832138) | about 8 years ago | (#16327967)

Not moving foward? Unless I am mistaken the Wii-mote is better tech than previous controllers. It also has some new and unused tech that haven't really been applied to the video game market. True the games won't run in 1080 but honestly WHO CARES?! I don't care if I can see the sweat rolling off some linebackers head while I am playing a game, I'm more concerned about how fun it is to play that game and kick my friends ass in it. I am supposedly in the key demographic for Sony and Microsoft 25 year old male who is into the high end technology and has money to blow and I am not going to waste my money on the PS3.... hell I'm having a hard time justifying buying a 360 cuz I am sick of the same crap over and over. I bought a PSP and Liberty City Stories and Burnout..... 3 weeks later I traded it in for store credit and bought a new DS and some games cuz it was the same recycled crap over and over. New graphics != mean a better system (sure it helps but its not all there is).

"This launch is not going to go well" (2, Interesting)

ravenshrike (808508) | about 8 years ago | (#16326101)

Well, considering the fact that at every Gamestop/EB games the official party line seemed over the last 1.5 years to be that the 360 was the end all be all of gaming systems and the PS3 was horrible, why am I not surprised. Seriously, when he was off the job the local gamestop manager actually was talking about how he was looking forward to the PS3, and yet go in and ask him, and suddenly he attempts to push 360 superiority. Recently this changed, but for a while, they basically bashed the PS3 as store policy. And now they're saying they think it will fail? I smell a combination of stupidity and possible payoff.

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

kfg (145172) | about 8 years ago | (#16326225)

They're not fans. They're salesmen. Think about it.

KFG

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | about 8 years ago | (#16326259)

Seriously, when he was off the job the local gamestop manager actually was talking about how he was looking forward to the PS3, and yet go in and ask him, and suddenly he attempts to push 360 superiority.

I am shocked--SHOCKED!--that when an employee of a game store is on the clock, that he would recommend that you spend $300+ on a product that he has in stock instead of spending $0 on a product that he does not have!

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

TomHandy (578620) | about 8 years ago | (#16327417)

This sort of reminds of when the DS and PSP first came out. I remember the local EBgames manager was constantly trying to convince me that the PSP was going to destroy the DS, how pathetic the DS was, how the PSP was the future, etc.

I guess it's easy to understand why they thought this at the time, but they've really done an about face now, and it's nice to walk in there and be able to buy a DS game without getting a bunch of dirty looks from the employees.

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

wckdjugallo (832138) | about 8 years ago | (#16328043)

Last time I was in a Gamestop the clerk tried to convince me the PSP was the number 1 selling portable game system of all time. Then the next day I was in with my girl to get some DS games. We were talking about importing a DS lite from Japan since I don't want white, black, or pink (I want Navy Blue it looks hott!). The clerk tried to convince me that I can't us a DS lite from Japan in America. Needless to say I will not go back there heh.

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

Dev59 (953144) | about 8 years ago | (#16328615)

I can testify to the same thing at all four EB/Game Stop locations in my area. Every single person that works there who's been asked by a customer about the PS3 hears about how horrible the system is going to be and why don't they buy a 360 instead? I'm sure it'll calm down quite a bit once PS3 games start appearing on the shelves and suddenly it'll be the best thing "evar".

Re:"This launch is not going to go well" (1)

The-Bus (138060) | about 8 years ago | (#16328687)

They bashed the PS3 because they wanted to sell the existing system. In four months, when the PS3 is in stock commonly, they will not bash it. They'll bash the Xbox, the PS2, etc. Because it's time to upgrade.

I see a CSI episode coming on: (1)

krell (896769) | about 8 years ago | (#16326307)

" 'It's going to be ugly, there is no way this launch is going to go well.'"

"The room was filled with geeks drinking Rum-and-Jolt, ready to participate in the console unveiling ceremony. At last, the moment arrived: a giant mecha burst through the styrofoam wall, and walked in a straight line until it met the side wall where it could walk no more. The top opened: and inside was a dead nerd., clutching a bloody joystick. Our intrepid investigators arrived mere minutes later."

Playing the PS3 (1)

Jimbot256 (1006531) | about 8 years ago | (#16327127)

Might be a bit off-topic, but I noticed many of you still bring up that crashing "issue" from that article posted a few days ago. A UK-based PS3 magazine, PSM3, was given a Playstation 3 to play with for a day. Here are the links of the write-ups:

http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_power_u p_pics_and [psm3mag.com]
http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_meets_p sm3_the_aftermath [psm3mag.com]

They talk about impressions, heating, noice output and stuff like that. Given that it's a Playstation magazine site, it is a pretty insightful read on how the final PS3 models will, hopefully, work. Hopefully it can put to rest some FUD and shine some light on the PS3 and reveal the fingerprints of truth. (And yes, apparently it gets dirty much like the PSP. Ick.)

Re:Playing the PS3 (1)

Dev59 (953144) | about 8 years ago | (#16328575)

From the pictures, the $500 unit looks matte black (same texture as the PS2), which for me is just another reason to get it over the $600 unit. WiFi and the memory stick ports (not PS1/PS2 memory card ports, which would have helped sell me on the $600 unit) don't matter to me at all and I'll likely stick a cheap 250 GB hard drive in my PS3 so the 40 GB space difference in hard drives doesn't matter to me either.

There is a lot of cool technology at play in the PS3 and the games I care about (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, pretty much any Japanese game) will all be on the PS3 (and for the most part, not on the 360) so that's all it really took to sell me on Sony's system. It all comes down to the games.

Violence possible (1)

goetzAThome (797366) | about 8 years ago | (#16427549)

My local EB manager today was being grateful his isn't an inner city store. There's really a potential for people to become violent as this thing is released. Given the 360 stories I was hearing this morning (while waiting to preorder my Wii), I think these guys have some very legit concerns...
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