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New KDE 3.5.5 Features 1,200 Changes

timothy posted more than 7 years ago | from the viel-glueck! dept.

98

lisah writes "Just two months after its last update, KDE has released a new maintenance and bugfix update. KDE 3.5.5 boasts over 1,200 changes including speed improvements to KHTML, an update of Kopete 0.12.3, support for Adium themes, and improved support for Yahoo! and Jabber IM protocols. KDE 3.5.5 also now offers extensive support for over 65 languages. Just a day after the release of 3.5.5, developers say they are already looking toward the release of KDE4, which will include improvements in multimedia, hardware integration, and more." (Linux.com and Slashdot are both part of OSTG.)

cancel ×

98 comments

BSD? (3, Insightful)

debest (471937) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407161)

Is this really the right catagory to post KDE news in?

Re:BSD? (2, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407291)

OMG, there's KDE news in BSD! This isn't SOP, it's a SNAFU. Someone IM the IT staff at OSTG and ask them WTF, OK?

Re:BSD? (2, Insightful)

harrypelles (872287) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409259)

Hey! That was actually pretty funny (and related)... why the offtopic??

Re:BSD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16411649)

IDK.

Re:BSD? (2, Informative)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407331)

Why not? It's in Linux, and KDE runs on BSD as well as it does on Linux. BSD is a fine category to put it in.

Re:BSD? (4, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407381)

Please explain why BSD is not one of the appropriate categories to post this story.

Re:BSD? (3, Insightful)

Yosho (135835) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407541)

Because there is nothing BSD-specific about KDE. It also runs on Linux, OS X, and probably some other operating systems as well. It makes as much sense to post a KDE article in BSD as it would to post an article about Firefox.

Re:BSD? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16407785)

"It makes as much sense to post a KDE article in BSD as it would to post an article about Firefox." ...or Your Rights Online: "Did Reiser murder his wife? Is ReiserFS doomed?"

Re:BSD? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#16422685)

Yet you are NOT bitching about the story ALSO being posted to the Linux section. Consistancy in your behavior would be nice.

Re:BSD? (1)

Yosho (135835) | more than 7 years ago | (#16423769)

I wasn't "bitching" about anything, I was answering the previous poster's question. Perhaps you should take a step back from the computer and think about why you're letting yourself get worked up over a few words on the internet.

Re:BSD? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438767)

I am the previous poster. My question still stands: why is it inappropriate to post this story in the BSD section, as ONE OF SEVERAL categorizations?

Re:BSD? (1)

petabyte (238821) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407855)

And while Yosho's post is spot on, it is also worth noting that well, FreeBSD is in the midst of a ports freeze, 3.5.5 probably will not be in the mainstream tree until later in the month/early next month. A FreeBSD/KDE person would probably have a better idea of that. I'm sure it will be fetchable from non-offical mirrors before that though. I'm presently using gnome 2.16 on FreeBSD that way.

Re:BSD? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16408603)

Because it sucks dick, that's why.

In fact, you might notice that it's actually quite a clever little acronym! Free Because it Sucks Dick. Isn't that great?

Re:BSD? (1)

paulpach (798828) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409003)

Because there are a lot more users using KDE on linux than BSD. And because most people think of KDE as a linux desktop enviroment before they think of it as a BSD desktop environment.

Re:BSD? (3, Insightful)

Homology (639438) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409391)

Perhaps "most people" needs to broaden their horizons?

Re:BSD? (1)

Walter Carver (973233) | more than 7 years ago | (#16411507)

Because KDE may run on BSD, but it is not about BSD, it is about Desktop in general. You can run KDE on Linux too.

Re:BSD? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#16422745)

You can run KDE on Linux too.

Which is why it was ALSO posted in the Linux section! Duh!

Re:BSD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16432327)

It's pulled to the Linux section because it is tagged with the Linux topic. It's actually in the bsd section, which does not make sense. If you read linux.slashdot.org it will have the title "BSD: New KDE 3.5.5 Features 1,200 Changes".

Re:BSD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16408537)

why? thye both dying after all

Re:BSD? (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408681)

Well, we don't have a KDE category, and BSD needs some love.

Re:BSD? (1)

arodland (127775) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409517)

Yes. Because I like the color scheme over here.

Re:BSD? (1)

Phoe6 (705194) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409821)

Did you mean to ask why in a dead forum?

Re:BSD? (1)

indiejade (850391) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409995)

BSD: "Berkeley Software Distro" or IOA: "Insert Other Acronym" ?

Well (1, Troll)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407165)

In Linux word, bug fixes are called "improvements". Don't dare to use this word when talking about Windows in ./

Re:Well (0)

megaditto (982598) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407431)

*In Linux word, bug fixes are called "improvements". Don't dare to use this word when talking about Windows in ./*

The difference being that most users are not forced to pay for a copy of "Linux" whenever they buy a new computer.

Re:Well (1)

Nanpa (971527) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407703)

Technically you don't have to buy any OS when you get a new computer.

Re:Well (0, Offtopic)

megaditto (982598) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408171)

Practically, places like Dell and HP will charge you OEM XP price anyways, plus the extra in "removal" fees (home users requesting no os).

Re:Well (0, Offtopic)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 7 years ago | (#16411323)

That's how M$, who has their hands in Dell's pockets, does things. If you "want" Windows, meaning you probably have a "need" because you are locked into their whole proprietary game, M$ will then make you pay an assload. If you don't care though, or especially if you *don't* want Windows, it's those people M$ wants to go after. It's just software, it's easily copyable, so M$ doesn't lose anything to someone who wouldn't have paid to begin with. The more people they can have using it though, the more the market will be proprietary in their favor, and more software will be made for it, further helping them monopolize the market. It's win-win. So, of *course* you can't buy a Dell computer without Windows. I tried on their website and you have to choose a version of Windows to get with your computer. There is "no OS" option, for people who might want to save money, or install something else, or install their own copy of Windows even. I chatted with a rep and told them I would buy my computer elsewhere or simply build it myself so that I could save money by having a free OS instead. :)

Re:Well (1)

DohnJoe (900898) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407693)

you misspelled /,

D'oh!

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16408163)

I think you meant /.?

Re:Well (1)

pklinken (773410) | more than 7 years ago | (#16486911)

====O> - Joke.

?
O
-|- - You.
/ \

how did they count? (1)

DohnJoe (900898) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407319)

1200 seems a bit on the high side, did they just count all cvs commits or something?

and yes, I did not RTFA ;)

Re:how did they count? (2, Funny)

chill (34294) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407477)

Yes, probably -- though I think they use SVN now.

What the article mentions, but the /. blurb does not, is that there were 333 bugs closed from 3.5.4 to 3.5.5. That makes it half as evil!

Re:how did they count? (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407873)

As the other guy mentioned 333 were bugs. From the article... 1,222 changes have gone into the release between 3.5.4 and 3.5.5 and 333 bugs have been marked as closed.

So basically they fixed 300 bugs and added 900 features. I'd be willing to bet that many of those are language enhancements that will never be seen by anyone except testers, since most peeps will be using KDE with one language.

I can't wait for the Gnome camp to come out of hibernation now and start spouting how evil KDE is and how they need to die, yada...yada...yada...

Re:how did they count? (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409179)

Some of the closed bug reports seem to be features, though. For example:

kdesu
* Add sudo support. Fixes bug 20914. See SVN commit 570637.

(Whick is nice and all, but definitely counts as a feature addition rather than a bugfix IMO. Remember, bug trackers aren't always just for bugs.)

Re:how did they count? (1)

junglee_iitk (651040) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408001)

There change-log [kde.org] lists only about 182 changes.

There SVN commits are to 483 unique files. (cat kdebase.txt [kde.org] |grep branches|sed 's/*/ /g'|uniq|wc), Otherwise there are 485 (cat kdebase.txt|grep branches -c)

But total number of lines are 1586 (wc kdebase.txt)

Draw your own conclusions. (I have mine ;) )

Re:how did they count? (2, Insightful)

Homology (639438) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409705)

A useful changelog is not just a list of each and every commit, for that you just use the history log of the repository. A changelog is a compact and informative overview of changes without going into the nitty gritty details.

Re:how did they count? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16410835)

1150 of them were adding new preference dialogs.

The sad thing is, most KDE users won't even notice such a small % increase.

Re:how did they count? (1)

toadlife (301863) | more than 7 years ago | (#16412255)

Yeah, and the number was inflated due to them replacing all occurances of...

/* WARNING: Possible buffer overflow below! */

with...

/* Warning: Possible buffer overflow below! */


*ducks*

Is that gross changes or net changes? (0, Offtopic)

dzerkel (89036) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407901)

1200 changes, including over 600 times that color was changed to colour and back again... :-)

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (2, Insightful)

SoapDish (971052) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408461)

well, it should be "colour" I'm sick of having to addopt the US spelling when doing anything computer related.

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

ibbo (241948) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409301)

Stick with what you know best mate. Colour was colour before it was reduced to color.

Only in America they say.

ibbo

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

SoapDish (971052) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409673)

Read a little closer next time. I said, 'it should be "colour"'. I'm from Canada where we spell it "colour", as do most of the countries that have english as an official language. I don't like using the american-english spelling.

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (2, Interesting)

orcrist (16312) | more than 7 years ago | (#16421197)

Colour was colour before it was reduced to color. ...
and it was color before *that* ;-)

From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: 1color
  Pronunciation: 'k&-l&r
  Function: noun
  Usage: often attributive
  Etymology: Middle English colour, from Anglo-French, from Latin color; akin to Latin celare to conceal


I love it when British-English fanboys start talking up the 'seniority' of their dialect. :-)

-chris

P.S. See also my rant [slashdot.org] about English dialects (yes, they are *all* dialects)

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

dylan_- (1661) | more than 7 years ago | (#16421489)

Interesting rant. However...

which has led to e.g. the soft "r" at the end of syllables in most British dialects
This is pretty much confined to the South-East of England (perhaps into the Midlands? Not sure). It's certainly not in "most British dialects".

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

orcrist (16312) | more than 7 years ago | (#16422073)

Interesting rant. However...

which has led to e.g. the soft "r" at the end of syllables in most British dialects

This is pretty much confined to the South-East of England (perhaps into the Midlands? Not sure). It's certainly not in "most British dialects".


Well, to be fair though I studied Linguistics I did not specialize in Anglo-Saxon Studies and I have a relatively general background in the history of English so I'll happily admit I'm not *that* familiar with the dialectology of the British Isles.

I just chose my example from a list of such cases we had learned about in one of my courses about language change in general. I plead 'mea culpa' regarding one of the details (I guess I just had it in my mind that that 'r' is soft through most of Great Britain), but the principles still stand.

-chris

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

illtud (115152) | more than 7 years ago | (#16435477)

which has led to e.g. the soft "r" at the end of syllables in most British dialects

This is pretty much confined to the South-East of England (perhaps into the Midlands? Not sure). It's certainly not in "most British dialects".


Huh? The british dialects pronounce a hard "r" at the end of a syllable (eg "colour" or "over") are definitely in a minority.

Re:Is that gross changes or net changes? (1)

francismacomber (315308) | more than 7 years ago | (#16410515)

Well, I feel you should "adopt" a better dictionary before you start complaining about anyone else's spelling.

Been using it for a week (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407917)

More or less. It's been in Debian Sid for some time now. I can't say I've noticed that many improvements, since KDE already worked pretty well for me. Konqueror seems slightly faster, and doesn't always crash when using a certain functionality on a certain Web 2.0 site.

Re:Been using it for a week (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16408067)

KDE 3.5.5 was only released yesterday.

Re:Been using it for a week (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408463)

It was tagged in the CVS or whatever they use before that. Debian's kdebase 3.5.5-1 was packaged at Wed, 4 Oct 2006 18:43:28 -0400. Kdebase 3.5.5a-1, based on KDE's tarball, was packaged at 10 Oct.

Re:Been using it for a week (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409605)

Although it seems like the rounded corners on Slashdot are off by a pixel now. Hrmmm...

BUT! Now Konqueror comes with an easy to use AdBlock thing! There's now a filter icon on the bottom, and you can create/modify rules from there just like the Adblock extension.

Re:Been using it for a week (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16411745)

I can't see any adblock icon in Konqueror, but I use the functionality (right click on image--> block is easy enough). Hasn't this been in Konqueror for some time now?

Misleading summary (3, Informative)

SirTalon42 (751509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407933)

Just a day after the release of 3.5.5, developers say they are already looking toward the release of KDE4...


I'm not an expert on grammar so I may have misread the summary myself, but KDE 4 has actually been being developed for a good while now. Pretty much all of KDE has been ported to using Qt4, DBus has replaced DCOP, etc. Lots of work on the new frameworks in KDE4 has also being accomplished, as well as improvements to the already existing ones as well.

Re:Misleading summary (1)

javilon (99157) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408115)

the DBus is specially nice as it is a standard from freedesktop.org and is used in gnome as well.

Kopete (4, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#16407975)

The fix to Kopete that lets it use Adium skins is definitely welcome, as there are a ton of Adium skins.

However, I wish they had spent their time making Kopete compatible with Gaim's plugin architecture rather than a basically glitzy UI improvement. At least last time I checked, Kopete was completely incompatible with OTR encryption, and it looked like it was going to stay that way. (The reason I heard was that something about the existing Kopete plugin structure doesn't allow plugins to actually orginate messages, just modify them as they pass through, and OTR uses specially crafted messages to initiate connections and resend data. Or something like that; don't quote me on it directly.)

Seems like the request is still open [kde.org] on Bugzilla, I encourage people to vote, as IMO this is a major limitation of Kopete versus Gaim. Kopete definitely looks nicer than Gaim, but it's not as functional because of that.

Actually, I'm not sure why they don't just rebuild Kopete to use the libgaim backend, like Adium does (and Proteus, and Fire...). Maybe there are good reasons for not using it, but it strikes me as serious wheel-reinvention.

Re:Kopete (2, Insightful)

archen (447353) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408181)

It may be wheel reinvention but so is 99% of all Linux software... or all software period for that matter. I've never used kopete myself, but judging by how well kde apps integrate I would guess that kopete is reinvented not just for the sake of doing it, but for having the engine available to all other kde apps. I'm sure they could make some sort of dcop wrapper for libgaim, but I'm sure that if they really wanted to, they could have made a wrapper for gimp as well.

The open source desktop already has enough of applications that have nothing to do with each other cobbled together for a distro. Trying to keep a consistent desktop is a good goal for the KDE project, and I think that's what they're really trying to accomplish with all of their apps that already have equivalents available.

Re:Kopete (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408875)

Why not help in the development of libgaim and then use that? This reinvent the wheel thing really is a bit much, and those gaim guys really could use the help to finally get 3.0 out the door and finally merge that gaim-vv stuff into the next version (4.0?)

Re:Kopete (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409503)

Well, they are developing using their own time, so I think they need others to tell them how to spend their own time.

Re:Kopete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16411035)

Have you ever looked at the Gaim source? Over the last year it has improved somewhat, but I can imagine that it just doesn't reach the quality that the Kopete guys want to see in their codebase.

Then again, you are free to write a KDE based IM client based on libgaim (or to just use gaim). I'll take Kopete over that any day.

Re:Kopete (1)

cybereal (621599) | more than 7 years ago | (#16412887)

Don't be surprised at all. Kopete has a rather bumpy past and continually exists as one of the buggiest, worst-designed instant messaging program I've ever encountered (and I'm a big IM geek).

The fact that they waste their time adding useless skin support instead of fixing the thousands of bugs that must exist in the codebase is enough evidence that the developers have no idea what they should be prioritizing.

The real solution here is to forget kopete, and stick with gaim despite how ugly and non-kde it is (yes, I know it's gtk+). Do so until someone who actually knows how to manage and develop an application comes to the table for kopete. Although it won't happen as their seems to be a pathological habit of whoever becomes the lead on that project to reject any and all input from sane people who actually use their application. That includes rejecting patches regardless of how they are submitted, despite providing perfect solutions to the bugs they won't address themselves!

At least, that's been my experience with them, YMMV.

Re:Kopete (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16414945)

No thanks. I'll stick with Kopete for instant messaging and GAIM for IRC.

Re:Kopete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16420063)

For IRC, have you tried konversation [kde.org]

Still no... (0, Troll)

jo42 (227475) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408099)

KDE Universal Network Tool...

Re:Still no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16410967)

KDE Universal Network Tool...
I don't get it...

Re:Still no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16412883)

You mean the KUNT? Yeah, this just in: KDE was programmed by German 14 year-olds.

Re:Still no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16414527)

...I guess the Packet INternet Groper just can't satisfy some.

Komplaint about Kopete. (2, Interesting)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 7 years ago | (#16408789)

For anybody who has followed the mailing lists know that the developers decision to change the 'message-send' default-key (from Ctrl + Enter to Enter) has met with a lot of resistance and complaints, but thankfully it is changable. Although kinda difficult to find as it is not obvious at first glance.

This I can live with because it is a variable that _I_ can change. Kudos to the team for realising that not everybody likes to do things _your_ way. Hrm, Gnome; take a look.

What I can't stand is a change to the code that eliminates a or space character at the end of a message. They have actually gone so far as to have the code actively delete and space or null characters at the end of a message.

Gaim, and ICQ allow these actions by default. IMO i think Kopete devs went into a monkey-see monkey-do and just copied what MSN does.

For me the deal-breaker is the space-character issue. Since I (like many of you other /.'ers) grew-up using BBS's, we all remember how difficult/annoying it was to try to have an online conversation with the sysop in the full-duplex windows, so as a good habit we all started adding and 'extra' ENTER to notify the other person that we were done talking. This habit has stuck with me throughout my IM'ing life. The only medium that this method doesn't work is IRC.

For example:

My desired Output:

Person 1: this is a sample message that I would type in an IM window (Enter)
(Enter)
Person 2: And this would be the reply, nicely seperated (visually) from the previous message.(Enter)
(Enter)

######

Kopete's new-default behaviour.

Person 1: Now converstions can/will look very cluttered.
Person 2: Despite KDE's past behaviour of allowing users to setup whatever setting they wanted to use.
Person 1: I have spoken with the dev's on freenode, but they had a holier-then-thou attitude that was very similar to the heated conversations that took place regarding the ctrl+enter vs Enter 'send-message' debacle.

Re:Komplaint about Kopete. (1)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409453)

That's why the various message styles differentiate what you said and what the other person said, usually by different colours in your usernames, by adding spaces of their own, by 'blocking off' each distinct set of messages, or some other visual, automatic method.

Let's face it, typing an extra newline to let someone know you're done only makes any sense if all parties can see what every other party types as they type it. Otherwise, you know that someone's done typing when they hit the enter key.

It's not 1980 anymore, you're a little behind. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to adapt to the changing times.

Re:Komplaint about Kopete. (1)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409699)

The visual styles that you refer to just add to the screen clutter. The 'extra' space is just used to visually break-up large blocks of text.

          Would you suggest that we abandon using paragraphs completely because we don't need to seperate "chains-of-thought", or topics.

          This has nothing to do with being stuck in the 80's but instead a complaint about developers intenionally crippling software.

Re:Komplaint about Kopete. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 7 years ago | (#16411801)

"crippling" software by not allowing you to send blank messages and waste the other person's time and energy? Sounds like a positive change to me. I don't give a crap what you did on your BBS in 1983, don't put random whitespace in conversations with me. Just think of it like an automatic "jerk-filter".

Komplaint about KDE users komplaining about GNOME (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16410011)

Kudos to the team for realising that not everybody likes to do things _your_ way. Hrm, Gnome; take a look.

GNOME is the very example of this in action. How? All the KDE apps I've ever used have a million preferences, in a dozen different dialog boxes. (Can't decide whether we should use Enter or Control-Enter? Make it a preference!)

As you say, not everybody likes to do things your way. For KDE geeks, sifting through a million preferences to fix keybindings must be fun. For us GNOME users, we'd rather just use the darn app. If it uses Enter or Control-Enter makes no difference to me (and it's easy to adjust), but having a reasonable number of preferences makes the app actually useful.

Real example: Back when GNOME was just adding CD burning, and it was broken for a release, I looked around for an alternative program. The KDE geeks seemed to rave about "k3b" (what kind of name is that?), so I figured it would work. Unfortunately, it had so many preference dialogs and wizard steps I couldn't actually get to burning my CD. (I've been running Linux since Slackware was new, I'm a programmer, and I have a computer science degree from a top-ranked school; I'm no computer idiot.) I've got better things to do with my time than sort through all these dialog boxes because some KDE developers couldn't agree on what's a reasonable value and punted all these stupid decisions to the poor user.

In the end, I burned my CD from a shell. At least with a manpage, you can search for the option you want. KDE is a huge step backwards: it neither takes care of the messy details for you (as GNOME does), nor does it allow quick searching to find the flag you want (as the shell with man(1) does).

This is not to say that GNOME always does things the way I would; it doesn't. But GNOME does exist, so for people whose "way" isn't "sift through a million preferences", GNOME is pretty nice.

As per your spacing example: this shows that, no matter what you pick, *somebody* is going to be offended. Unless you write the whole thing in Lisp with hooks everywhere, you're going to always end up with something that somebody doesn't like and can't customize. It sounds like you won't be happy until all of KDE is preferences.

Re:Komplaint about Kopete. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16410713)

So, you have some weird habit acquired in a now obsolete system. Really, it's not a problem with kopete's chat, at all. Kopete allows many behaviours, if you don't like the default, change it!.
  Your habit reminds me of the first time my dad used IRC, he would write 'over' when he was done talking, since he uses radios a lot.
  Oh, yeah, kopete has font sizes and colours, so your 'sample' up there was hardly good.

GNOME is falling futher behind. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16408815)

I've been a user of GNOME since 1.2, but a coworker suggested recently that I try this new release of KDE. I must admit, I am very impressed. This is the first time I've used KDE in perhaps six years or so, so I really hadn't kept up to date with its development.

I think the biggest difference I noticed was its speed and responsiveness. One thing I notice with my GNOME 2.16 installation is that applications will sometimes gray out their entire window for perhaps half a second or so, often after maximizing the window or sometimes upon a dialog box opening. This just isn't the case with KDE. The GUI repaintings are near-instant, as far as I can tell.

The most impressive feature is their web browser, Konqueror. It completely shames Firefox, Galeon, and Epiphany. Besides being a lot faster, it used a whole lot less memory. At one point I had 16 tabs open (I counted them) and a download going, and according to top the memory usage never exceeded 45 MB. Meanwhile, I can open five of those same sites in tabs with Firefox 1.5.0.7, and memory usage skyrockets to 112 MB.

The CSS support of Konqueror is also better than that of Gecko. It passes the Acid2 test, which to the best of my knowledge, Gecko still cannot do.

KMail is another great application. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but its usability is far better than that of Thunderbird or Evolution. With the GNOME applications you have to take a moment to think about what you want to do, and how exactly to accomplish it, with KMail it's blatantly obvious. You just click instinctually, and often times it does what you want it to.

At this point, I think I might stick with KDE 3.5.5. I hadn't realized how poorly GNOME was competing, but now that I do, I don't really see any reason to go back to GNOME. Simply put, it cannot compete with KDE based on features, speed, responsiveness, and other significant factors.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (2, Interesting)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16409629)

``KMail is another great application.''

Especially the feature that reminds you to actually attach an attachment.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (2, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 7 years ago | (#16410521)

I must admit, I am very impressed. This is the first time I've used KDE in perhaps six years or so, so I really hadn't kept up to date with its development.

This is almost identical to my experience. I tried KDE around 2000 and thought it was very, very lame. So I used GNOME for a few years, and then switched to XFCE on both my "fast" desktop and slow laptop.

Then one day (about a year ago, I guess?) I wanted to look at some KDE features so I installed it on my laptop, and found it wasn't that bad. XFCE wasn't the only desktop that was fast enough for my laptop anymore. Now I'm using KDE on both my machines, and have been pretty satisfied with it.

Konqueror is both good and bad. On my laptop, it is way, way faster than Firefox. I can't take Firefox seriously. Konqueror still has a few problems, with threading or locking I think. I've noticed that sometimes if something is taking a while, I want to switch to another tab, but the whole app (not just that one tab) is unresponsive until the slow thing finishes. That's not good, and makes me want to write a konqueror replacement (though I guess the "correct" thing to do is to fix konqueror and submit patches).

kmail looks good to me too. I'm probably going to eventually switch from Sylpheed to kmail, after I get all my old mail moved from local folders to a local IMAP server.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 7 years ago | (#16410749)

> kmail looks good to me too. I'm probably going to eventually switch from Sylpheed to kmail, after I get all my old mail moved from local folders to a local IMAP server.

I started using kmail when it could filter incoming mail on IMAP folders without require Sieve support on the IMAP server. Works pretty well, but has its warts here and there.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16418665)

Yeah. I've been using KDE for quite a while. KDE itself has sped up a lot over time, but another gain is from GCC. On my current gentoo systems, kde probably about doubled in speed when I compiled with gcc-4.1.1 instead of various 3.4.x or 3.3.x versions. gcc-4.x also takes like 2-3x more RAM to compile KDE 8-). With --enable-final turned on, a few bits of KDE take nearly 1.5GB of RAM to build.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16411101)

I agree 100%, which is why I am increasingly saddened by all the major desktops gradually converging on GNOME/ Ximian - it just seems like the opposite of a meritocracy, to me.

GNOME: Because If You Can't Compete On Quality, Compete On Politics.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (0, Flamebait)

welsh git (705097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16417275)

That sounds typical of the current "proprietary" linux philosophy.

Linux people are now going off the standard-path just like they accuse microsoft of doing - ok, so they may provide the source-code but for 99.999% of people, it's still proprietry linux-only stuff.

Seems like they now want the standard sound-api to be "ALSA" where the "L" stands for "linux"

And the new flash-player for 'linux' will use the alsa api.

There was a time that Linux was a decent Unix player........ Extras, and enhancements are fine, but now Linux thinks it's the only kid in the block worth considering.... It's MS with source-code.

Re:GNOME is falling futher behind. (1)

welsh git (705097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16432245)

Typical of the Linux cabal to mod that post down - the truth hurts, no ?

Nobody's "behind" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16412659)

The CSS support of Konqueror is also better than that of Gecko. It passes the Acid2 test, which to the best of my knowledge, Gecko still cannot do.

Acid2 is *not* the end-all be-all of CSS. Passing it doesn't mean something has great CSS support, nor does failing it mean you have poor CSS support. Konqueror does well at the CSS selectors it supports (unlike IE), but there are a lot it simply doesn't do. I've done some CSS development, and Konqueror doesn't hold a candle to Gecko, especially when you get into the more obscure CSS2/CSS3 things.

Konqueror also doesn't have Mozilla's extension-writing community. CSS isn't the easiest-to-use standard I've ever used, and having extensions to make development easier far outweigh being able to see a smiley face on some intentionally-wrong HTML test page.

KMail is another great application. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but its usability is far better than that of Thunderbird or Evolution. With the GNOME applications you have to take a moment to think about what you want to do, and how exactly to accomplish it, with KMail it's blatantly obvious. You just click instinctually, and often times it does what you want it to.

Based on the screenshots at kde.org [kde.org] , I'd say it's anything but "instinctual". The first line in an email is not "To:", as with every other email client in the world, but "Identity", which is "Default (Default)". I don't even know what that means. Then "Dictionary: English [british]" [sic] (why, do they think I'm going to alternate between English dialects?). *Then* comes "To", but note that even though this is the one field you'll always fill out, it's the only widget on the screen without a mnemonic. There's a checkbox called "Sticky" -- I don't know what this does, or even if it's related to the "Identity" popup it's next to (am I a sticky individual?). The list goes on and on.

I guess it's one of those "intuitive once you learn how to use it" things, which is another way to say "unintuitive".

KDE has produced an admirable amount of code, and they do great at some things (like memory usage, as you point out). But it kills your credibility to suggest that KMail is "instinctively intuitive", just as it would strain my credibility if I was to claim that GNOME is as responsive as KDE (it's not, I know). Neither KDE nor GNOME is completely ahead or behind the other, and both have things they can learn from the other. In fact, that's true of everything in life: nobody is better at everything, and everybody has something they can learn from you, and vice versa.

Re:Nobody's "behind" (1)

Gabesword (964485) | more than 7 years ago | (#16414817)

Those screenshots look very little like my default install of KMail. I think they may be rather old but I'm not sure. In any event, the things that you mention are now all like I first expected them to be. The first line is, "To:". The dictionary choice is made in a menu, not on the main message writing screen. If you don't change it, it uses a default dictionary. My experience with KMail has been very positive. I totally agree that it is a very intuitive to use program.

Kopete has issues, but really is nice. (1)

Deagol (323173) | more than 7 years ago | (#16411555)

After using Kopete, Gaim, and Psi (all great programs, btw), I've settled on Kopete. It just *feels* better within the context of my KDE desktop.

That said, I have 2 gripes.

Firstly, it seems to take up a relatively large amount of memory for what it does. I *just* fired it up, and it's allocating 121M with 45M resident (FreeBSD/AMD64). And that's with *only* 2 accounts being active (one Yahoo! and one Google). And after a day's work with those 2 accounts, it sometimes get way out of hand and I need to restart it.

And last, it seems to lag/spinlock (or whatever it's called) all the time. Every time, without fail, I initiate a chat window w/ someone, it hangs for 5-to-15 seconds (giving me the KDE "not responding -- terminate or keep running?" dialog 50% of the time). Every single time. Never any such lag with the other 2 apps mentioned above. I've used Kopete 100% for over a year on 3 different machines, i386 and AMD64, but all of them FreeBSD.

Anyone know of any solutions to these?

(WTF is up with still needing 2 paragraph tags between the 1st and 2nd paragraphs?!?)

Re:Kopete has issues, but really is nice. (1)

welsh git (705097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16417333)

> And last, it seems to lag/spinlock (or whatever it's called) all the time. Every time, without fail, I initiate a chat window w/ someone, it hangs for 5-to-15 seconds (giving me the KDE "not responding -- terminate or keep running?" dialog 50% of the time). Every single time. Never any such lag with the other 2 apps mentioned above. I've used Kopete 100% for over a year on 3 different machines, i386 and AMD64, but all of them FreeBSD.

I can't help you specifically, but I can say that I use kopete extensively too, and it does NOT do this on my system (FreeBSD/i386)

how about something (0, Troll)

XO (250276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16413829)

...that can run on a computer with under a GIG of ram?

Re:how about something (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16414979)

How about 256MB? Works with that.

Re:how about something (1)

XO (250276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16434469)

well, it'll -work- on 64mb, but would you find that tolerable?

Last time I used KDE, my 512MB ram was immediatly overcommitted. I stopped using Linux/X partly because the memory requirements for good software have gone absolutely through the roof. I have a 768MB machine now that probably won't get upgraded for at least a couple more years, and Windows + it's apps are quite happy. (yeah, i swap about a gig and a half normally, but on this same box I needed 3gb of swap for linux/x/gnome)

Another reason I also stopped is because the GTK Open box is useless.

Re:how about something (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#16434623)

Sorry you had to stop using Linux, but I think that by itself is a poor reason. Yes it is tolerable.

Re:how about something (1)

XO (250276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16456475)

Well, sure, I could go and use the less comfortable environments, but that would be getting less than Windows offers. I used Linux for years and years and years (OS/2 as well), but it's just not something I can get behind without a super powerful machine anymore.

KDE == explorer.exe? (1)

WasteOfAmmo (526018) | more than 7 years ago | (#16414947)

Ok, I'm really not out to start a flame war so take your mouse off that mod button for a second.

Generally KDE is great. I use it on my Linux boxes and we use it in our labs. Konqueror is the best damn general purpose browser (except web) out there. It handles just about any protocol you can thing of and does a great job (except http) of it.

But it seems to me that KDE is starting to become more and more like the Windows "windows manager" where "one program" does it all. In Windows that would be explorer.exe along with IE and now perhaps media-player. With KDE now talking about better multi-media integration, etc., one wonders if we have not been down this road before.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it does seem that KDE (and perhaps GNOME) is headed down the same path as MS and many other projects has previously. That is, towards one very large, does a bit of everything, and perhaps does no one thing really well, application. Is this a cycle that all software seems to follow? Take Mozilla for example. Start as a just a browser, build to a one suite to do it all application, split into parts that independantly handle designated tasks better than the all-in-one.

At some point will we see a fork of a KDE Light or some such project?

Just some rambling thoughts.

Re:KDE == explorer.exe? (3, Insightful)

smash (1351) | more than 7 years ago | (#16415235)

Thing is, with KDE you have the option to install/deinstall individual components. You don't *need* to run konqueror, kwm or any particular K app. The KDE apps are "tightly integrated" where that means "work well together". Not "integrated" in the microsoft sense, where they're non-optional...

WTF Mate? (1)

ghostcorps (975146) | more than 7 years ago | (#16419753)

Whoever put this here probably take screen-caps of his tricked out KDE and calls it a "BSD screenshot".

Re:WTF Mate? (1)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 7 years ago | (#16512367)

So, this image is not an OpenBSD screenshot? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OpenBSD39snapsh otxfce.png [wikipedia.org]

Sure, there is Xfce running on it, and gaim, and opera, and xmms... so it's a screenshot of them all. I think that OpenBSD/Xfce/gaim/opera/xmms screenshot counts as a screenshot as all of the above.

What's your problem with it?

Re:WTF Mate? (1)

ghostcorps (975146) | more than 7 years ago | (#16571116)

My problem is that a screenshot of BSD would be a black screen with white writting on it.

That is a scrrenshot of Xfce running a few apps not BSD, it might as well be running on Linuz, or Darwin or Cygwyn for all the image tells us.

Re:WTF Mate? (1)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 7 years ago | (#16586264)

And a screenshot of the text here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Openbsd38boot.p ng [wikipedia.org] is better?

I could just open photoshop and type random nonsense and it would be just as proven a screenshot. You don't like that the prior images cannot be proven to be what they claim to be. By that opinion, no screenshot is valid, since none of them prove they are what they are being said to be. And no photograph! Images are all useless!

Re:WTF Mate? (1)

ghostcorps (975146) | more than 7 years ago | (#16587590)

Well yes actually, the practice of screenshots to prove which OS is running is pointless. Unless your showing us the bootup messages of course ;)

By all means, show us your tricked out WM. But, a screenshot of KDE/Gnome is NOT a *nix screenshot regardless of which OS you are actually running.

1200 changes and... (1)

ehcanada (998791) | more than 7 years ago | (#16421793)

1200 possible bugs!
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