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Details on the PS3 Online Service

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the going-online-take-me-away-we'll-go-online dept.

156

Eurogamer has details of Sony's online strategy for the PlayStation 3. Finally. The long article goes into the process by which you log into the service, some of the things you can expect to find online, the different aspects of user accounts, and finally some details about the PlayStation Store. From the article: "As to the content that will be available, Sony is still playing its cards close to its chest to some extent - but one thing the giant firm is clear on is that the PlayStation Store will grow to encompass more than just new game content and demos. Alongside the free and paid-for game content, the store will also play host to a wide range of new titles developed specifically for download (the first of which, fl0w, was shown off at TGS - dozens more PlayStation Store exclusive titles are being worked on around the world thanks to an initiative which Sony launched at GDC last year) - and as Ken Kutaragi revealed at TGS last month, it'll also be possible to buy PSone and PS2 classics you missed out on, as well as a selection of PSP games, from the PlayStation Store, and download them directly to your PS3." After all this time, it's nice just to know there is an online strategy.

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Zonked (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436559)

He has to editorialize everything. We've known there is an online service for more then a year now, they were just being tight lipped. It'd be as if I were to say at last years TGS "well at least we finally know wii actually has a controller". Asshat.

Re:Zonked (0, Flamebait)

nmaster64 (867033) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436671)

Oh STFU. There were murmurs a while back about Sony possibly lacking an online service and leaving it up to 3rd parties. However, his comment was more of a nudge of humor than "editorializing". Move on with your life asshat.

If you don't like the writers, don't read the website.

Re:Zonked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436777)

I support your view on this matter.

Re:Zonked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16438455)

He has to editorialize everything.

I agree, editors should not editorialize.

PS3 is GOD! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436561)

Fanboi! Fanboi! Fanboi!

Will this force XBox Live to become free? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436575)

I hope so... Not all the content has to be free.. but I'd like to play online without a monthly subscription. Finally some competition.

Re:Will this force XBox Live to become free? (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436683)

I hope so... Not all the content has to be free.. but I'd like to play online without a monthly subscription. Finally some competition.

I personally don't think XBox Live is the type of service Microsoft is trying to compete on price with; they seem to be more focused on quality of service and increased functionality. By having a charge, Microsoft will be able to provide services that would not be cost effective on a free service; much of this functionality may be of questionable value (gamer-scores and what not) but it is what the service is based on. I would expect that XBox Live would (probably) increase the ammount of services it provides rather than reduce the price.

Re:Will this force XBox Live to become free? (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439579)

The entire flipping XBOX wasn't cost effective as a franchise. So far, neither is the 360. It's a BS argument anyway, since somehow Steam isn't a charge service and yet Valve is still making money hand over fist.

Re:Will this force XBox Live to become free? (4, Informative)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436705)

While the web browsing and friends lists looks nice, people seem to be missing one key point...the sony online services doesnt tie into games. You can chat all you want or buy things at the sony store but they service still isnt going to link you up to play some madden head to head. Gaming on the PS3 may be free (or may not in a few cases depending on the publisher) but its also piecemeal. Peer to peer or publisher control online play is still the only way to do it with Sony, there is no centralized matching service or more importantly infrastucture maintenance for gaming.

Thats the big advantage of XBox lives subscription services...if all you want is profiles and shopping, MS already has that for free its called Xbox Live Silver.

Re:Will this force XBox Live to become free? (4, Informative)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437267)

This is an excellent point. PS3 developers/publishers are either rolling their own or using services like XFire or Gamespy to get their games online. That could (based on the history of the PS2) mean multiple logins to access multiple games. I just can't imagine developers being happy with that compared to the ease of use cited with Xbox Live from just about its beginning on the first Xbox.

Past the initial setup, Xbox Live access has been completely transparent with my 360. I start the console, I'm immediately logged in, any game I insert checks for updates and has multiplayer ready to go when I select the appropriate mentu options. The most I ever have to think about is how many XBL points I have when I'm looking at perhaps downloading something.

Maybe Sony will have similar functionality that allows the third-party online services to utilize Sony's login, but we haven't seen any evidence of that, yet. The bottom line is that if Sony's online complexity varies on a game-by-game basis, then it will continue to suffer in comparison to Xbox Live.

PS- I should note that XBL multiplayer is by no means perfect across all games. Lag is reported as an issue in some games while being a virtual non-factor (except on a connection-by-connection basis) in others, so obviously there is still code that depends on the developer. MS and developers still have some work to do in this area, but as far as convenience and ease of use they seem to have things down pat.

Mod parent :) (3, Insightful)

stunt_penguin (906223) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439223)

This is an excellent point.

It's not only an excellent point, it's the point. I can't see Sony getting their online service right for another year- they need a unifying framework that all of their game developers can use to provide one login, one matchmaking service and one game update platform.

Microsoft had it 80% sussed with the Xbox (there was no tangible dashboard, but the basic core was there) and are doing extremely well with the 360's service; sony have, it seems, only reached the 30% mark :|

Also, what about entitlements? (1)

jchenx (267053) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437493)

One thing the article doesn't go into is what Sony is planning to do in response to Xbox Live's gamerscore and achievements system. They mentioned a while ago something similar called "Entitlements", but it would have been nice to hear more. As neat as the Friends notification and system are on Xbox Live, it's really the gamerscore that I find really cool. My friends and co-workers are often competing/comparing scores and achievements, and it's gotten to be a bit competitive. I know it's not something everyone cares about, but enough people do.

Price check! (1)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436583)

This scheme [ytmnd.com] demonstrates just why it's NOT worth $599. The pricing is all wrong. The online service is just one more gimmick that will fail...and because of its cost.

shortsighted. (2, Insightful)

CDPatten (907182) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436615)

anyone else read that and feel like the author just has an axe to grind against online gaming.

I think he is kind of shortsighted by saying (strongly implying at least) that full games will never be web based.

I certainly can see (as broadband speeds increase) purchasing a game like halo, and you download the 30 mg level in a 30 seconds. Video clips are streamed in real-time instead of being played off the DVD.

Am I just off here, or was that author lacking vision.

Re:shortsighted. (1)

justice7 (785522) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436679)

If you look towards the PC Take a game like Guild Wars for example. You don't even have to install this game to play it. The initial client is 96KB, and the client streams game content to you as you play. It initially downloads all it needs to get you going, and as you progress and during play you are downloading content. It is a great feature, and people who play guildwars never really notice patches as they are constantly streamed to them during play.

Shortsighted vs realistic (2, Insightful)

MMaestro (585010) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439891)

I don't think that the article was shortsighted, but it was realistic. Just go down the usual list:

1. Is cheap, reliable, FAST broadband available to the (gaming) masses? No. Its not unheard of to still meet people who surf the net or play online with dial-up.

2. Has anyone ever successfully streamed a DVD quality, full length video over the internet yet without hiccups? Not near the commerical level so that rules out Sony's dream of selling movies directly to customers.

3. Remember when Microsoft initially announced that Xbox Live was going to be broadband only? That didn't sit very well with many people did it?

Valve has been doing this for over 2 years now. (2, Interesting)

Unworthy Advocate (767730) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436703)

This has already been done, its called STEAM. It changed the way I play and pay for games. No, it is not perfect but overall it rocks.
Auto game updating makes me VERY happy and the range of available games is expanding all the time.

Though this is not to say that Sony couldn't possibly do it better and more efficiently.

Re:Valve has been doing this for over 2 years now. (1)

Merovign (557032) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437839)

Heh. Not everyone feels the same way about Steam.

I've had to reinstall it about 5 times. I've fought with it to get it to recognize games I have installed. For someone without limitless free time, auto updating (especially without knowing how long it's going to take) just cuts into what little gaming time I have. I hate having to shut down my net connection just to run Steam if I want to enjoy my 30 minute gaming window instead of spending 10 minutes updating.

It's stopped working, lost games, and yes, it has switched me to Steam-related messages while I'm playing.

I just happen to think it's a bad model. At the very least I should be able to tell it "pretend this is standalone" when installing, but I can't. I understand why they did it, but it doesn't make me any happier with the product.

I'm glad it works well for you, though!

The Details For The Lazy (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436733)

"the system does show you friend sign-ins and new messages received in overlays on top of the game you're currently playing"

"Oh - and it's all free, too. The only place you'll be asked to fork over a penny is when you purchase something in the PlayStation Store - all of the online services, from sign-up right through to voice and video chat, are free, as is normal multiplayer gaming"

"the only things you'll pay money for are paid-for downloadable content, or subscriptions to premium services like massively multiplayer games."

"Unlike Nintendo and Microsoft's offerings, Sony doesn't hide the price of items behind an arbitrary "points" scheme"

"it'll also be possible to buy PSone and PS2 classics you missed out on, as well as a selection of PSP games, from the PlayStation Store, and download them directly to your PS3."

"what we've seen is very promising. Account creation and management, buddy lists and various types of chat appear to be working just fine, the interface is simple and elegant, and the PlayStation Store"

Zonk: "After all this time, it's nice just to know there is an online strategy. "

Pathetic. Just pathetic.

The Wii and PS3 are only a month away and the Slashdot community is missing out on many major console gaming news due to the 'fucked in the head over Sony/PS3' Zonk. It's time for a change. It's not funny. It's not inflammatory. It's just fucking sad.

Zonk, go away. Deal with whatever the fuck issues you have with Sony on your own time. Slashdot is long overdue for a sane games editor.

Re:The Details For The Lazy (0, Troll)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436891)

Most of your points are stupid, or not that impressive but I want to comment on this one in particular:

Unlike Nintendo and Microsoft's offerings, Sony doesn't hide the price of items behind an arbitrary "points" scheme

"Points" is a much better way to offer these services to customers in this buisness model. If you consider that not everyone has a credit card, or likes using that information online, a "points" model allows people to buy "points cards" at their local retailer and use them online; this means that everyone from little Jimmy (8 years old) to Nana Smith (72 years old) can access your online content. This also limits the quantity of trafic that your ecommerce site faces because rather than every purchase requiring a credit card check you only require one when people buy new points.

As for the confusing the price, how is having 1 point per yen (in Japan) or 1 point per dime (in the US) a really confusing system; this is Nintendo's Wii points system.

Re:The Details For The Lazy (1)

SScorpio (595836) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437087)

I really hope Nintendo isn't using that system since $0.10 is equal to 12 yen. If that's the case I hope I'll be able to use imported point card and save a lot of money.

Re:The Details For The Lazy (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437109)

I could be wrong but I think the American and Japaneese points are not interchangeable ...

Re:The Details For The Lazy (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437237)

Those sentences in quote marks are direct quotes from the article. Flaming Mr. A.C. about them being stupid is even more pointless than replying to an A.C. post normally is...

Re:The Details For The Lazy (4, Interesting)

Tim Browse (9263) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437133)

Zonk: "After all this time, it's nice just to know there is an online strategy. "

Pathetic. Just pathetic.

Actually, it's a pretty reasonable comment - and a sentiment that many PS3 developers share, which you'll have seen evidence of, if you've been following the PS3 news in the past couple of months.

Sony have shown time and time again that the one thing they are hopeless at is software, and an online service is all about the software, not forgetting of course the hardware/server farms, which I think Microsoft just might have more experience with.

Knowing Sony's MO, the fact that this service is free basically telegraphs to me that Sony don't think this service will be as good as Xbox Live. In other words, they can't compete on quality or value with the online system, so they've decided to compete on price.

Re:The Details For The Lazy (2, Insightful)

havenskate (964747) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437733)

I don't think you can jump to that kind of conclusion. And regardless of the quality of their service, it's been clear to me that Sony just doesn't believe in charging for online services. I, for one, would NEVER pay for the online service if they did charge - I think that's a ridiculous concept and I would rather see an AD for a new game or PS3 hardware product than have to fork out a monthly fee just to browse a store where i'm going to buy something or get updates for games.

I think Sony is just doing the right thing and being FAIR to their customers by not charging.

Re:The Details For The Lazy (1)

zeroduck (691015) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440917)

I think that's a ridiculous concept and I would rather see an AD for a new game or PS3 hardware product than have to fork out a monthly fee just to browse a store where i'm going to buy something or get updates for games.

You don't need to pay for those functions on the 360 either. Marketplace is free to browse, and updates are for everyone that plugs it into the internet. Paying for the gold membership just gets you into online multiplayer.

Actually, not (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439263)

Actually, it's a pretty reasonable comment - and a sentiment that many PS3 developers share, which you'll have seen evidence of, if you've been following the PS3 news in the past couple of months.

What are you talking about? I follow game news pretty rigorously (for all systems, including the PS3) and there's not that much of a hint developers are all that in the dark regading online play. Some have said they are a little unclear about the sales of extra material online, but the core seems pretty fixed in place with games like Fall of Man already knowing they will support fourty simultaneous players online.

The actual part of online play we'd most care about - playing online with other people - seems to have been in place for some time.

Re:Actually, not (1)

animejoe (900182) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439581)

Same thing (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439733)

Two links - covering the same story, which if you actually read carefully only mentions "Online Components". Somehow other developers seem to have been able to do online play just fine, includign Warhawks and Fall of Man.

Just because one developer does not have all the online libraries does not mean others do not as well or Sony has not planned out what they are going to have. You are basically zonking yourself here with a misconception based on piss-poor reporting - like reading game news from Ars Technica!

Re:Same thing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439921)

Warhawk hasn't really been talked about since the demonstrator at E3 made a fool of himself using the Sixaxis's motion sensor and Fall of Man is the subtitle to Resistance(:Fall of Man)

Re:Same thing (1)

Tim Browse (9263) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440675)

Others, too [britishgaming.co.uk] - this one was fairly widely reported, I thought.

they have a strategy ? (1, Funny)

tehpwn (896928) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436735)

I guess it's better than having a turd in your locker

Wikipedia: comedy gold! (1)

goldaryn (834427) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436759)

From wikipedia [wikipedia.org] page on the PS2.. comedy gold!:

Sony rolled a PS2 online adapter in late 2002 to compete with Microsoft, with several online first party titles released alongside it, such as SOCOM US Navy SEALS to show its active support for Internet play. Sony also advertised heavily, and its online model had the advantage of being supported by Electronic Arts.

Uhm...

Re:Wikipedia: comedy gold! (1)

trimbo (127919) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436951)

I think what the Wikipedia author meant there is that EA did not support Xbox Live for at least a couple years after it came out. I think either Madden 2004 or 2005 was the first version that had XBL, whereas Madden 2003 was the first on PS2.

Re:Wikipedia: comedy gold! (2, Interesting)

kubevubin (906716) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439501)

I've never used Xbox Live, so I have a question concerning it: Are less popular or older games ever removed from the service, rendering them unplayable online thereafter? EA likes to remove online support for the PlayStation versions of older (as in two years old) sports titles in order to force players to purchase a newer version. Does this occur with the titles that are playable on Xbox Live, by chance? If not, then it makes perfect sense that EA would be a bit hesitant to support Xbox Live in the beginning.

Re:Wikipedia: comedy gold! (1)

nissu (823183) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439721)

I've never used Xbox Live, so I have a question concerning it: Are less popular or older games ever removed from the service, rendering them unplayable online thereafter? EA likes to remove online support for the PlayStation versions of older (as in two years old) sports titles in order to force players to purchase a newer version. Does this occur with the titles that are playable on Xbox Live, by chance?
Yes, apparently EA has pulled the plug on some of their older Live titles. However, if I have understood correctly, all the non-EA Live titles ever released are still playable online.

No more online play for EA's back catalogue [arstechnica.com]

Re:Wikipedia: comedy gold! (2, Informative)

damiangerous (218679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440405)

EA doesn't actually use XBL. They are the only exception I know of that is allowed to use their own service. I'm sure one of their main reasons was so that they can pull support. As far as I know no game's support has ever been removed from XBL.

How much will it cost? (2, Insightful)

linzeal (197905) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436819)

Xbox live 360 from Microsoft costs 40 bucks [amazon.com] a year. Has there been any indication this is going to be free or something?

Re:How much will it cost? (1)

Nick05 (903299) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436853)

No i do not think MS would make it free, they have invested quite a lot of money and made a huge loss selling the consoles. One way to recuperate that cost would be through selling subscription(Xbox Gold membership). I am happy Sony is making this free. Total cost of ownership will be more or less same when you compare both(Xbox 360 Vs PS3).

Re:How much will it cost? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16438343)

But Sony really isn't making it free. They are just using a different model. Instead of paying Sony for online play you will pay the game publishers with Sony coordinating the transactions. Either way, you will still pay for online play.

As far as the cost, we will have to see what game publishers charge for a monthly subscription before we can determine how comparable the two systems are in TCO. Right now I can pay $40/year for Xbox Gold and play any online game I own until my thumbs fall off. That's a good deal for even one game and it's a great deal if you play many different games. OTOH, if the game publishers follow the same subscription model on PS3 that they do on the PC, it will be $10/month for each game. $120/year > $40/year. And that is just one game. Even at the half the cost it is still $60/year. But we won't really know until the PS3 is out.

Re:How much will it cost? (4, Insightful)

libkarl2 (1010619) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437053)

Has there been any indication this is going to be free or something?

From the article:

Oh - and it's all free, too. The only place you'll be asked to fork over a penny is when you purchase something in the PlayStation Store - all of the online services, from sign-up right through to voice and video chat, are free, as is normal multiplayer gaming. There's no equivalent of the Xbox Live Gold account, where you're expected to pay extra for a further tier of services - the only things you'll pay money for are paid-for downloadable content, or subscriptions to premium services like massively multiplayer games.

Re:How much will it cost? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437355)

Tell us the truth, this comment was just an excuse for you to post your Amazon affiliate code, wasn't it?

If Only.... (2, Interesting)

SCDavis (974281) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436875)

If only microsoft, Sony and Nintendo could get together and have a "global" network with all three systems and even PC maybe (gamespy? or one of those guys?) and let people that have say Ghost Recon for the 360 play against people with the PS3... or even a global store where you could buy the things once... When i get the Wii and IF i get the PS3, i really dont want to pay for all 3... with Live costing 40/year or whatever it would be good to get a deal on all 3...

360+wii = 60
360+wii+ps3 = 90

where all seperate could cost people 120+ a year!

but we'll see... Nintendo seems to have things going the right way with rumors of being able to download old nintendo games (whether it be for free or not we'll see).

Also Microsoft seems to already be rolling with their network set up while the PS3 will have to work out all of their bugs that Microsoft worked out with the first XBOX... Nintendo also might have the same problems that Sony will have, but who knows...

Re:If Only.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437141)

RTFA. The Sony service is free.

360 = 40

360 + PS3 = 40

Re:If Only.... (1, Insightful)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437645)

We might want to also mention this: 360 + Wii + PS3 = Xbox Live Fee The WiiConnect24 is free.

Re:If Only.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437281)

sony are working with gamespy for their online stuff.

(nintendo wifi on ds was also a collaboration with gamespy)

Re:If Only.... (2, Informative)

Jimbot256 (1006531) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437823)

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=2031 0 [gamesindustry.biz]
It seems like PS3 users will be able to chat with the PC community through Xfire. May not seem much compared to your idea, but it's a start.

Re:If Only.... (3, Interesting)

Kagenin (19124) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437825)

Wii Virtual Console downloads will cost about 5-10$/game. They're not rumors, they're confirmed facts. NES, SNES, and select Genesis and TG16 games will be available. AFAIK, the Wii online services will be free - no annual registration, just a points system for purchasing Virtual Console titles and other offerings (something like 1 yen or 10 cents per point).

Its also worth noting that the Wii will not be sold for a loss - unlike M$ and $ony, the big N will be making profit from every console sold from day one. M$ and $ony can't make a profit until they can get their manufacturing costs way down (which is probably further off for $ony then I think even they realize). This will be the Achilles heel for $ony - their pricing scheme will put off a LOT more people than they're anticipating (just look at the current /. poll!). They plan on making their money back from games and peripherals, but if no one's buying systems, games and pads will sit on shelves, profiting no one. The other whammy here is they're not gonna have enough systems in stores before Christmas - every source out there is reporting that the numbers just aren't there yet.

Nintendo has everything going for them going into this generation. The didn't sell as many units as their competitors last generation, but they made more money than either of their competitors on hardware sales, because they've never sold their hardware for a loss. They're PWNING $ony in the handheld market - Are there any good games for the PSP yet? Cuz I already have a dozen DS games, and I love them all.

Re:If Only.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437867)

WiiConnect24 does not have online gaming as of launch, and not for several months if not a year after release. I know that EA (my employer) does not have an online team for Wii, because there are no online functionalitys to implement. Wii also intends to charge money for a web browser of all things starting next summer. Ridiculous.

The leads in the handheld gaming market are ludicrously exagerrated, by the way :) In north america, PSP was selling more systems than DS by a few thousand every month, before the DSLite hit and gave DS a boost.

Lastly, to address PS3 numbers: There are only 100,000 less american PS3s on launch day than there were for PS2, and actually about 70,000 /more/ than there were launch 360s. Sony is doing just fine.

Re:If Only.... (0, Flamebait)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438813)

Its also worth noting that the Wii will not be sold for a loss - unlike M$ and $ony, the big N will be making profit from every console sold from day one.

I love how you're putting the dollar signs on MS and Sony, when its Nintendo selling the warmed-over Gamecube for $250.

Re:If Only.... (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440873)

I was going to make the same point, but granted, $i$te$do doesn't make much sense.

Re:If Only.... (-1, Troll)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438839)

Nintendo has everything going for them going into this generation.

Except the legacy of 10 years during which they couldn't put together a decent library of games...

The didn't sell as many units as their competitors last generation, but they made more money than either of their competitors on hardware sales, because they've never sold their hardware for a loss.

Yeah, but Sony still made more money overall. Who cares what the distribution of revenues is like when the bottom line is bigger?

Are there any good games for the PSP yet?

Funny, I keep asking myself that about my Gamecube. And yes, there are. Syphon Filter, Wipeout, Valkyrie Profile, among others.

Cuz I already have a dozen DS games, and I love them all.

Good for you. I just EBayed my DS because I couldn't find any games for it that I wanted to play.

Re:If Only.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16440367)

You know, you look like a complete retard when you put dollar signs in company names.

Re:If Only.... (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438491)

Nintendo seems to have things going the right way with rumors of being able to download old nintendo games (whether it be for free or not we'll see).
It won't be free, and they've never said it would be free. NES games start at 500 Wii points, SNES at 800, and N64 at 1000. 1 Wii point is 1y or $0.01US; I don't think they've announced what the pricing will be in Europe. (Hopefully E0.01)

The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436893)

For 500 dollars you get from Sony:

This amazing and free online network
1080p games - already at least seven 1080p games - and 1080p looks like it will be the standard rez for most PS3 games
Full backwards compatibility with the entire Playstation and PS2 library of games
1080p BluRay movies
HDMI
20 gig harddrive that can be upgraded to any size from any computer store
The ability to buy old PS1 and PS2 games from the online network
The tilt controller
A full Linux distro right on the harddrive of every PS3 system
A full set of dev tools right on the harddrive of every PS3 system
DLNA compliance
And I believe you can just plug any standard USB WiFi device into the system

The Xbox 360 for 400:

Needs to have 50 dollars every year to play online - add 200-250 dollars to the system over four to five years
Needs to have 200 dollars and a clunky addon to play HD-DVD movies - but no HDMI connection and no 1080p or high quality audio output
Plus Microsoft charges you to be allowed to do homebrew - 50? 100?
Can't upgrade the harddrive
The now admitted massive hardware defects - 50 dollars just for an extended warranty
And let's not even go into the ridiculously marked-up 360 peripherals...

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

shodanjr_gr (985012) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437061)

You just have to love retarted fanboys...

"The ability to buy old PS1 and PS2 games from the online network"
Still waiting on them to get the PSP emulator and online shop up and running...hadnt they promised that a PSP-oriented download website would be online by last summer?

"A full Linux distro right on the harddrive of every PS3 system"
Yeah, you wish...This WILL NOT happen. It was just usual sony BS from 2 years ago while they were marketing the PS3.

"A full set of dev tools right on the harddrive of every PS3 system"

Yeah, you wish again...Give us a kutaragi quote that is not 1-2 years old about this.

"And I believe you can just plug any standard USB WiFi device into the system"

And will the Cell processor be so advanced as to come up with the device drivers by itself?

"Needs to have 50 dollars every year to play online - add 200-250 dollars to the system over four to five years"
At least its a unified network, that works and is tried and tested...And it will probably turn free once nintendo and sony launch.

"Needs to have 200 dollars and a clunky addon to play HD-DVD movies - but no HDMI connection and no 1080p or high quality audio output"
a) At least MS isnt forcing a high definition format down everyones throat
b) There isnt any HDMI, but THERE WILL BE 1080p via component and VGA.

"Plus Microsoft charges you to be allowed to do homebrew - 50? 100?"
90 for a year, but contrarty to Sony, it will happen.

"The now admitted massive hardware defects - 50 dollars just for an extended warranty"
Not really. European 360s got a de-facto 2 years guarantee, and American ones had theirs extended to 1 year. Also MS is giving money back to everyone who had to pay to get their 360 repaired. Contrary to Sony who waited for a class-action suit against them before compensating the consumers who had DVD problems with their PS2s...

"And let's not even go into the ridiculously marked-up 360 peripherals"
The hard drive and wifi unit are overpriced...But i dont think the controllers or cables are... Standar prices afaik.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437333)

>>"A full Linux distro right on the harddrive of every PS3 system"
>>Yeah, you wish...This WILL NOT happen. It was just usual sony BS from 2 years ago while they were marketing the PS3.

No, really. There will be. We got told all about this by a SCEE guy today.. He didn't explain fully, but he made it clear that it was their own linux distro, but that you should be able to run your own software on it. I'd imagine most people won't tho. He was a bit vague, but it also seemed that software written to run on-top of the linux wouldn't be able to use the full power of the cell processor (ie fully programmable use of the SPEs).

We were pretty baffled.. It seems like a strange idea, but apparently it's true.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437409)

What exactly is 'baffling'?

Everything you just posted has been known for over a year.

* Linux distro on ever PS3 harddrive
* Full set of libraries and dev tools to build PS3/Linux apps
* You won't be able to have the same access to the hardware as licensed PS3 game developers do

I assume there is either a button combo and/or a system setting to choose PS3Linux or XBM when the PS3 boots. And that there will be a BluRay disc that has the full system software/Linux install for people who buy new harddrives for the system.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

Scipher (35125) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438029)

PS3Linux is the kernel. Absolute.

Its either full or none, which is it (1)

cheekyboy (598084) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440513)

The SPEs are like real processors, ie the full instructions that you usually get with motorola, 40 branches, 40 moves, complex adds/subs/mults, what more do you want?
printf in assembly?

Either you can 'send code' to the SPE and run it, or the linux OS wont allow you to do it, but will allow you to use built in
libraries that use the SPE to do common functions/opperations, kind of like having 200 macros/apis with enough flexibility
that you wont be needing to make your own SPE code.

So go read the SPE assembly docs, its quite powerfull and flexible that it could easily run any code, recompile c/c++ code easily
at a nice speed. Its not a $3 dsp at 3ghz.

So sony could tell us but they wont, marketing dept rules and tells the engineers to shush up.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437377)

Fanboys fighting fanboys... yay!
"Yeah, you wish...This WILL NOT happen. It was just usual sony BS from 2 years ago while they were marketing the PS3."
"90 for a year, but contrarty to Sony, it will happen."

Key to winning an argument is not to put in your own personal views and feelings, but instead stuff you can base on fact. Your arguments are just as full of holes as the ps3 fanboy above you.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437359)

And when you get a job, you won't consider numbers like $500 and "$50 per year" to be enormous financial burdens.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437539)

"And when you get a job, you won't consider numbers like $500 and "$50 per year" to be enormous financial burdens."

And when you move out of your parents house and start paying for your own bills, gas, insurance you'll realize what financial burdens are. Even getting paid 25/hr having $500 extra cash is hard pressed. I suppose if I didn't care about saving or my future I could go on a spending spree.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438015)

I'd say you have to take a hard look at your spending if you have trouble saving 500 dollars at 25 per. Call taxes 50% and that's still only saving 40 hours of pay. If you can't pull that off in a reasonable time frame, you're living beyond your means.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438869)

See, that's why you gotta work 70 hour weeks. So you can buy lots of toys :)

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (5, Insightful)

dlim (928138) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438187)

I suspect this is just some anonymous flamebait, but still, you're not really making a proper comparison.

You compare:
This amazing and free online network
to
Needs to have 50 dollars every year to play online - add 200-250 dollars to the system over four to five years
As others have stated, the Xbox Live does have a free service as well, and I saw nothing in the article describing free online multiplayer gaming (which is mostly what you pay for on Live).

You compare:
1080p games
to
no 1080p or high quality audio output
The Xbox 360 is supporting 1080p [slashdot.org] following the fall 2006 update, which I believe is scheduled to be distributed prior to the PS3 launch. If that's a result of the competition from the PS3, great. But it really isn't a selling point right now. Also, the Xbox 360 does support digital surround sound audio. You don't make it clear what is better about the PS3's audio.

HDMI
- You are correct that the Xbox 360 doesn't have an HDMI connector, but I believe it's $600 for a PS3 with one.

You compare:
20 gig harddrive that can be upgraded to any size from any computer store
to
Can't upgrade the harddrive
The article doesn't say the hard drive is upgradeable. Are you making it up? I remember not putting my PS2 online because I had to pay $50 for a special 10/100 network adapter that fit the PS3, when a generic one cost $10. I'm not convinced there will be an easy way to upgrade the hard drive without buying proprietary hardware. This is Sony after all. (BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, BluRay) etc. And are you sure opening the box won't void your warranty?

And let's not even go into the ridiculously marked-up 360 peripherals...
Are you claiming that the PS3's peripherals will be dirt cheap? (See comment above about $50 PS2 network adapter.)

How is anyone modding this "Insightful"?

it's free (2, Informative)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438859)

As others have stated, the Xbox Live does have a free service as well, and I saw nothing in the article describing free online multiplayer gaming (which is mostly what you pay for on Live).

Playing online is free on Sony's PS3 network, just like it is on PS2. PS3 online gameing: free. Playing on Live costs money.

You are correct that the Xbox 360 doesn't have an HDMI connector, but I believe it's $600 for a PS3 with one.

$500 in US. $430 in Japan. All PS3s have HDMI connectors, not just the expensive one (was announced a month ago).

The article doesn't say the hard drive is upgradeable. Are you making it up? I remember not putting my PS2 online because I had to pay $50 for a special 10/100 network adapter that fit the PS3, when a generic one cost $10. I'm not convinced there will be an easy way to upgrade the hard drive without buying proprietary hardware. This is Sony after all. (BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, BluRay) etc. And are you sure opening the box won't void your warranty?

Over half the games on PS2 that played online would support a cheap 10/100 network adapater, in addition to Sony's which was $50 (but fell to $35 very quickly and is included in the Slim PS2).

The hard drive is upgradeable on the PS3 (do a search). You don't have to open the box either, it goes in the end. Sony never said it was upgradable with just any hard drive though, it's quite possible you have to buy Sony's HD (like on PS2) to upgrade it.

The higher-end PS3 has CF and SD memory slots next to the memory stick one. My Sony digital camera has a CF slot! And don't use BluRay as an example of Sony going it alone, HD-DVD has only one company backing it (Toshiba), BluRay has the entire rest of the industry. On the other hand, UMD (as used in PSP) is a great example of Sony going it alone, to their detriment. Dumbos.

Are you claiming that the PS3's peripherals will be dirt cheap? (See comment above about $50 PS2 network adapter.)
PS3 uses a standard HDMI cable. It uses a standard power cable. It uses standard USB cables. The only proprietary cable it uses is the analog video out, and that's the same connector they have used since PS1, so many cheap 3rd party versions are available.

Additional wireless, rechargeable SIXAXIS PS3 controller: $43 (only priced in Japan so far). Charges with a standard USB A->mini B cable.
Additional wireless, rechargeable 360 controller: $62 ($50 controller + $12 rechargeable battery pack, and you still don't get a charging cable).

So, at least so far, the cost of peripherals for the PS3 looks pretty reasonable.

Re:it's free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16440281)

The hard drive is upgradeable on the PS3 (do a search). You don't have to open the box either, it goes in the end.


Since no one will actually do the search, I did one. And it won't be a Sony-branded upgrade you need to buy, it can be any ATA drive that fits the physical spec. There's this article [gamesindustry.biz] which quotes Phil Harrison:

"You can upgrade to whatever size of drive you like. You can put in any drive that you like - it is a computer, after all." (referenced interview here [gamesindustry.biz] .

The article above also claims: "The only non-upgradeable feature of the 20GB configuration will be the HDMI output." However, the article was dated 5/16/2006 and last month at TGS it was announced that the $500 PS3 will include HDMI.

Regarding GP's "Are you claiming that the PS3's peripherals will be dirt cheap?" Which parent addressed succinctly, I should amend that the article addresses this also:

"you can always plug in any standard USB keyboard, which will work with any text entry field anywhere on the system, as well as with the web browser."

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

be-fan (61476) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439207)

I remember not putting my PS2 online because I had to pay $50 for a special 10/100 network adapter that fit the PS3, when a generic one cost $10.

Those generic ones are $10 because they're produced in enormous quantities for completely generic machines. After all, everything has a PCI slot, so the buyer market is huge. $50 for a custom adapter for a specific machine is really not in the realm of "overpriced".

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439493)

(1) XB360 just upscales games at 1280x720 to 1080p but doesn't actually render games in full 1920x1080 like the PS3 does. This is just like the current PS2 that actually can set to output 720p or 1080i by using that HDTV boot disc.

(2) Both PS2 models have HDMI v1.3 (yeah, it's among the first devices to output HDMI v1.3, supporting billions of colors insted of DVI/HDMIv1.2 that are limited to 24-bit) : http://www.gfdata.de/archiv10-2006-gamefront/2347. html [gfdata.de]

(3) The harddrive is a regular 2.5" and can be user replaced. There is even pictures of this on the PS3 websites, or just go to the great www.gamefront.de site : http://www.gfdata.de/archiv10-2006-gamefront/ps3fe stplatte.jpg [gfdata.de]

(4) The special "$50" ethernet adapter also had a 56-kbit analog modem and the IDE buffer/connector. You needed this to add a harddrive to your PS2 (som games supported the harddisc, but I guess most uses of this was the HDLoader, where you could run all your games, cracks and homebrew straight from a fast HDD instead of juggeling discs and soldering up your PS2 with a mod-chip)

(5) There were a cheaper ethernet adaptor without the modem later, and besides - regular ethernet adaptors where NOT $10 back when this adaptor was released, I guess they most probably are more even today ...

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

Thexare Blademoon (1010891) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438265)

Needs to have 200 dollars and a clunky addon to play HD-DVD movies

I'm starting to think I'm the only person that buys a game console to play games, not to watch movies or cook breakfast with...

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

timmyf2371 (586051) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439883)

I use a game console to play games too. However, if one of the consoles supports a next-gen video format such as Blu-Ray out of the box, and the others don't, then the odds that I'll buy one will be firmly stacked in its favour.

If you cast your mind back a few years, back to when DVD players were actually a costly purchase, a lot of people bought the PS2 specifically because it had DVD support. Granted, the jump between DVD and Blu-Ray isn't perhaps as significant as the jump between VHS and DVD, but it's still a definite bonus in my eyes.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439853)

Oh look someone who is a paid marketer for Sony. This is a very biased and untruthful comparison.


Who cares about PS1 or PS2 games they are obsolete. HDMI is just an interface with DRM and doesn't add anything to the games. People aren't buying consoles to watch movies they are buying consoles to play games. Progressive scan is over rated and isn't an improvement in resolution. Why would you want to pay 300 dollars extra for Blu Ray? With the DVD developers have adequate space and are encouraged to use it efficiently unlike the Sony which will use Blue Ray wastefully an costs a lot more. The developer tools on the PS3 probably suck compare to XNA and Visual Studio and theres a reason why that development system for the PS3 cost 20,000 dollars.


An xbox 360 has the following advantages.

It's out now and has been for 1 year.

Xbox 360 is triple core vs. the 1 core and the 7 single precision FPUs in the PS3

Xbox 360 has a VGA port

Xbox 360 has a vibrating controller

Xbox live

Marvell Online and Halo 3

Direct X and XNA

Exclusive GTA content
 


The PS3 has the following disadvantages
Its made by Sony

Its not out now and it's vaporware.

The controller doesn't have a vibrator.

The PS3 CPU is single core and 7 whatevers. Those 7 other SPEs don't count.

The online system is a la carte with each vendor providing different services. As one man said you have to setup your credit card with 5 different companies just to play games.

Sony Online Sucks Campared to Xbox Live

Sony is trying to monopolize the console market

No Direct X and DRM

Paid content for Gran Turismo at 30 bucks a pop

No VGA port to support monitors that are better than TVs
 


Just to clarify your SPE put down. (1)

cheekyboy (598084) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440541)

http://cell.scei.co.jp/e_download.html [scei.co.jp]

The instruction set doc is at http://cell.scei.co.jp/pdf/SPU_ISA_v11.pdf [scei.co.jp]

If you know what instructions from 68k to intel to ppc are, then reading should show you its more than a simple FPU, its
has full power of a normal processor (sans fancy pipelines etc..) but its still powerfull dude. If your not
a programmer, then its beyond your comprehension.

Oh and a linux emu on that site too btw, inc gcc.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (1)

snafu109 (852770) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439977)

Yeah, well, Microsoft [engadgethd.com] has break-dancers and Sony [gamevideos.com] makes me want to sleep.

Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16440243)

Wow, let's just make up stuff and label them as facts so we can make the 360 look bad.

1. Yes Live costs money, but guess what, with paying customers comes responsibility. Since Sony doesn't charge you for online, it could go down for a period of time, or let's say it goes down for an hour or two every day (you can't complain about a free service). I think I'll pay $3-4 a month for reliability and for a service thats up and working 24/7/365. Sony has already said it will let the developers deal with online, whereas MS provides built in online functionality to their SDKs - more reliable and more constant from game to game.

2. The HD-DVD drive will support 1080p and HDMI so I'm not sure where you heard otherwise. Also games at 1080p instead of 1080i? whoopie. Check back a few weeks on slashdot story linking to a nice story mentioning that 1080p doesn't look any better than 1080i unless you're TV is over 60 inches...

3. BlueRay included vs. paying for HD-DVD? Congratulations buying a PS3, you have to pay extra for some fluff, nice of Sony to include that $200 fluff into their system even when a majority of consumers won't use it. I'll wait to the players to come down in price myself. Sony could have knocked off a few hundred bucks off of the hardware and released it months ago - instead they want to charge their users a few hundred dollars for something most will not use - I'm sure the PS3 users can't wait to spend $25-$35 dollars for a movie for their old 27" color tv.

4. Who says you can't upgrade the HD on the 360? It's a plug-in attachment on the outside of the box. Pus you can already buy a USB plug that connects the HD to your home network/pc to transfer and back up your HD to your PC, never need another HD after that.

5. You complain that MS charges for homebrew? It's never legally been done for any console and of course they'll charge for it. You pay for support and software, not to mention you can develop your game on the PC for free, then if you decide to "port" it to the 360 for that $50. Let's not even mention if a homebrew game is good enough to go on their Live network, there is the possibility of making a few hundred thousand dollars...

5b. Linux and dev tools? I'm sure it'll fly just like Linux for the PS2 did - remember all the great things that came from that? neither does anyone else, and I'm going to assume the dev tools is prob a C compiler, also going to guess its to develop for the 'linux' on the box and not actual games for the PS3 (could be wrong - first I heard of this at all).

6. Ya MS has some hardware defects, a lot of 1st gen hardware does. Part of their bad press of launch were people tipping their 360s while the disc was spinning or they crammed their 360s into a tiny space when it needed to vent. I'm sure the PS3 will have some hardware issues as well - and you don't need to spend $50 for the 'replacement policy' if you have faulty hardware, MS will, and has, replace your damaged unit for free if still under warrenty which they did for any bad hardware from launch.

7. Marked up 360 peripherals? I don't see any pricing quotes from Sony that don't show their controllers will not be about the same price (the Wii is pretty pricey as well) - and from what I've seen/heard, the PS3 controllers feel like cheap plastic compared to the 360s (IGN has a write up on that now)

8. Gee I can rebuy games from the PS1 and PS2 that I either a) alreayd paid for or b) don't want, that's awesome...

Does the PS3 look good on paper, sure it does, but not for the money and knowing Sony half of the stuff it can do, it won't be taken advantage of. There is going to almost no PS3s around for the holidays and the developers aren't going to rush any games out knowing there will be no sales of the hardware (they got screwed last xmas because of that with the 360 shortage).

The PS3 will prob be pretty good next Xmas when its a bit cheaper and actually has some games out for it. It's a big beast of a machine, that's overpriced, and is Sony's way to make a fortune. Not by selling its hardware or even with its games, they want you to buy it so you'll pay for Blue Ray DVDs which they own patents on and make a few $ for any movie sold. It didn't work Beta, MiniCD, and for the PSP/UMD and it's not going to work for the PlayStation either...

MS, update the HD for gods sake (1)

cheekyboy (598084) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440477)

Why oh why will MS not have an optional Extreme pack for a 80gig HD is a mystery, or at least
allow 3rd parties the permission to do it if some dick at MS thinks theres not a big enough market for it.

Is it really that much to ask for MS to allow any HD to be plugged in, just replace and 'reinstall' from
a dvd.

Mass suicides in the Xbox community (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16436959)

It is scary to see the reaction to these details of the free Sony online service in the Xbox community. They seem to be taking it...badly.

I guess the online stuff was the one thing they thought they would always be able to hold on to. I don't think many Xbox owners realized that most of this online stuff is really nothing more than mundane database transactions and a set of standard protocols for game developers and not some magic that needs 50 dollars a year from players to fund the upkeep of.

Re:Mass suicides in the Xbox community (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437201)

Wow. I can buy things on their service without a subscription. Can I play games with my friends with it? I don't see anything about that. XBox Live Silver is free and lets you buy from the marketplace. So Sony's amazing new offering is XBox Live Silver.

Re:Mass suicides in the Xbox community (1)

kabdib (81955) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437357)

Troll.

<sarcasm> Heck, games are just pushing pixels onto a screen and handling user input, what's so hard about that? For online games you just sprinkle some packet handling in there. Should take you like half an hour to do all that.

I mean, operating systems just use standard hardware (e.g., paging and protection) and some standard protocols (e.g., SATA, USB), and what's so hard about them? Compilers? I wrote three last week, and didn't even stoop to use a parser generator. This afternoon I think I'll do a browser, and maybe an MPEG-4 decoder after supper. It's just mundane, standard stuff, innit? </sarcasm>

It's really easy to dismiss this stuff as easy. Sir (or Madam), you have no idea what you're talking about.

... obSnideAside: Or if think you do, maybe you work for Sony :-)

Pretty obvious really (3, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#16436983)

People keep thinking that the PS3 has to recoup its money through games, and how can they possibly do that blah, blah, but look at the revenues open to Sony from this device:
  • Games (obviously)
  • Peripherals (like bluetooth TV remotes, headsets, controllers, keyboards / mice (?) etc.
  • Monthly subs from "premium" online services, whatever they happen to be
  • Online games, movies & music promote to buy, rent & (sell?)
  • Lots of licence fees if Blu-Ray wins the HD TV format war
  • Blu-Ray movies.
  • Increased sales of HD televisions.
  • Increase sales of LocationFree wireless room-to-room / internet streaming devices.

How well it does these things remain to be seen, but Sony has far more ways of making money than either MS or Nintendo do with their systems. The other consoles have their online systems, but all their other revenues must come from games. Perhaps that is why the PS3 sometimes appears to be a "kitchen-sink" system to catch all those revenues.

Re:Pretty obvious really (1)

The_DoubleU (603071) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437465)

Every console sold by Nintendo is profit, they don't sell at a loss.
So all the games they sell (online) are extra.
Sony needs to sell a lot of movies/games before they are even on level because they are selling at a loss.

Re:Pretty obvious really (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438105)

Bingo. We got a glimpse of their future plans with Gran Turismo HD. They want to sell you every single element of the game, and the only way they can do that is if you are forced to suck off the tit of their online gaming service.

Is online gaming the future? Of course. And online services are essential for future consoles. But if its any company that I do NOT trust when they say the service is "free", its Sony. They WILL recoup that cost in some way, most likely through scraping content and forcing you to pay extra microfees to download it. Beware, the future is paved with a road where each chunk of asphalt costs $1, and in the end you never own any of it.

Re:Pretty obvious really (1)

HaMMeReD3 (891549) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438453)

I think your talking about microsoft, who are currently profitting from

  • Games
  • Peripherals
  • Xbox live gold
  • Online games (xbox live-arcade), music and other content
  • Hd-dvd movies, if they happen to win the format war
  • Increased sales of windows xp media center and vista media edition
  • Customer loyalty

Regardless of hardware & companies, it's 99% about the games, and if the games are not good, the system will not be either. Sony recently let me down with the PSP, which on paper looks much more attractive then a DS. That sure doesnt explain why I never see psp's around anymore but I see several people chilling on their ds's.

Microsoft has proved that they can push out a competent console at a fraction of the cost, and as my friend once said, you can't appreciate the 360 until you own one.

Now if the Ps3 can actually run linux openly out of the box, I'll most likely buy one, just for the knowledge of the communities that will follow it.

Lots of assumptions there (3, Insightful)

MMaestro (585010) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440091)

Games (obviously)
With few exceptions, Sony's lineup has nothing on Nintendo's all-star launch and Microsoft "our system is already out so show up or shut up."

Peripherals (like bluetooth TV remotes, headsets, controllers, keyboards / mice (?) etc.
Which are directly tied into the system's success. Peripherals don't sell systems, systems sell peripherals.

Monthly subs from "premium" online services, whatever they happen to be
They just promised not to have monthly subs. And "premium" services are likely to be one-time purchases, not exactly a cash cow system.

Online games, movies & music promote to buy, rent & (sell?)
Unless Sony has some kind of PS3 Online Arcade system in the works, I'm not seeing this happen anytime soon.

Lots of licence fees if Blu-Ray wins the HD TV format war
General concensus is: Don't hold your breath.

Blu-Ray movies.
Thats assuming Blu-Ray takes off in the first place.

Increased sales of HD televisions.
Sony is not a major seller of HD-TVs these days. They don't own the patents either. Sharp is destroying Sony (and the rest of the market) in marketshare as well.

Increase sales of LocationFree wireless room-to-room / internet streaming devices.
The only people who would probably benefit from this would be companies like Netgear. People don't exactly think Sony when they buy a wireless router.

Re:Pretty obvious really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16440199)

You forget PSP sales for Sony and DS sales for Nintendo - both their new consoles are supposed to tie into the handhelds (somehow). MS may do something similar with the Zune too.
You also forgot straight-on advertising. Xbox Live has sponsored weekends sometimes with what are basically banner ads.

And I also must note the Nintendo sells its systems for a profit, so it has no loss to recoup in the first place - hopefully this will make them a bit less mercenary in their attitude than "buy-our-format" Sony or "p(l)ay online" MS.

Zonk's philosophy (4, Insightful)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437117)

When Nintendo is secretive about its product: "It makes perfect sense for Nintendo not to give everything about the Wii away all at once. Secrecy keeps the rumor mill churning, thus making sure that the Wii doesn't lose its presence in the news media. And every time Nintendo releases new information, it causes a feeding frenzy among the fans. Secrecy also keeps Nintendo's competitors guessing and sometimes catches them off-guard."

When Sony is secretive about its product: "Christ, what the hell is taking them so long to give us information about the PS3? Obviously the only reason they aren't talking is because they have no clue what they're doing."

I'd like to remind Zonk and the other anti-Sony fanboys that most of the important details for the Wii's Virtual Console were only revealed a month ago.

Rob

Re:Zonk's philosophy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16437209)

"I'd like to remind Zonk and the other anti-Sony fanboys that most of the important details for the Wii's Virtual Console were only revealed a month ago."

Zonk is just earning his share of the massive amount of money Microsoft is throwing around the Net trying to salvage the Xbox 360 mess...

Almost every major site that deals with console gaming has:

1) Publicly admitted Microsoft employees posting FUD while trying to give off a "we're all just a bunch of swell gaming guys like everyone else"

2) Anonymous Microsoft posters dishing out a continual stream of FUD

3) Site owners or editors receiving huge amounts of marketing money from Microsoft

None of it appears to be one bit effective looking at 360 sales - which are worse than the first Xbox.

Re:Zonk's philosophy (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437835)

I'm not going to defend Zonk's posting, but I do think there is a difference between how Nintendo's treated the Virtual Console and Sony's treated their Online System.

Back at E3 in 2005 Nintendo announced that the Virtual Console would give you the opportunity to download and play games from the NES, SNES and N64 (later adding the Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, and Turbographix 16); in one sentence the core idea of the virtual console was described. Certainly, there are dozens of questions people wanted answers to (how much it would cost, which developers would provide games, what games would be available, etc.) but, to a certain extent, those could wait and you still had a basic understanding of what you're getting into.

My memory could be wrong, but IIRC Sony basically said that their online service would be free, require developers to implement their own system, and it would rival XBox Live; which left many people with the question "Huh?". Without further details you can't even make reasonable assumptions on what is going on in Sony's world.

I may be wrong, but that is how I see it

Re:Zonk's philosophy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16438907)

I think you're forgetting 1 important factor - content of said news items. While Nintendo had been perhaps the most secretive of the 3 major players at first, when they started announcing details they delivered truly compelling ideas. Sony, on the other hand, is scecretive, and then they tell everyone the PS3 is going to be $600.

I'm sorry, but is it really that big of a surprise that Nintendo gets praise for announcing an innovative controller, and Sony gets flamed for announcing a $600 console?

Re:Zonk's philosophy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16440239)

and then they tell everyone the PS3 is going to be $600.

Really? I thought they told everyone it would be $499. Hm, curious...

Re:Zonk's philosophy (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#16440655)

Even ignoring the fact that the Wii's controller and the PS3's price are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand: Just because it's unsurprising that fanboys like to exaggerate Sony's flaws and minimize its advantages while doing the opposite for its competitors doesn't mean that it's right.

Rob

RTFA (2, Informative)

Scipher (35125) | more than 7 years ago | (#16437915)

Could everyone please read the article? The number of replies being posted is stupendous..so many.



"Oh - and it's all free, too. The only place you'll be asked to fork over a penny is when you purchase something in the PlayStation Store."



"So, once you add friends, what can you do with them? Obviously enough, you can check their status and see if they're online; you can see if you have any new messages from them, and send them messages. Sending emails through the system uses the same peculiar text messaging style keypad that users of the PSP will be familiar with, which seems a bit painful at first but rapidly becomes a much faster way of entering text than the on-screen keyboards used by other system"

Please take of the fucking blinkers! slashdot?! you ate my balls with the xbox360 fellatio!

PS3sstrategy sounds like a lot of "hopefully" (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438049)

These guys have seen the final system? Sure they have.

Remember that this is the same company who releases patches for the PSP over and over, yet does it actually improve the PSP? not exactly. They are just tempting people away from home brew and hacks and keep getting broken.

I'm all for a robust online experience, but from the sounds of it this is going to be the SAME online that Xbox has. Though with one difference. Xbox Live is a pay service which pays for the servers. the PS3, will not be paying for the servers which means the cost falls on the manufacturing price for the games, not the Xbox Live cost. I have a feeling that you'll see weaker online games where as the 360 has a huge push for "every game has online"... which has the best stategy? Don't know. don't care.

"fully upgradeable operating system" (1)

dlim (928138) | more than 7 years ago | (#16438289)

Does this mean we can't call it a "rootkit" anymore?

sRhit... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16438435)

feel an obligatSion Distributions

PSP emulation? (1)

Kuukai (865890) | more than 7 years ago | (#16439213)

it'll also be possible to buy PSone and PS2 classics you missed out on, as well as a selection of PSP games, from the PlayStation Store, and download them directly to your PS3.
Does that imply that the PS3 will have PSP emulation? That's would be very interesting, since there are a couple of PSP games I want to play, but I don't want to buy one, and none of them are really "handheld" material, they would all be better on a console in my opinion. Or is this a PS3-based PSP game store? (I didn't know you could legally download games onto the thing)

Re:PSP emulation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439659)

In Japan, you can already download game demos onto the PSP via WiFi hotspots in retail stores. Sony is probably going to release a firmware update so that you can download full games from the PS3 via USB or WiFi. That's more likely than a PSP emulator, which is probably technically feasible but not terribly useful--unless Sony starts selling an external UMD reader to attach to a PS3, similar to the GameBoy attachment for GameCube. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but it's unlikely that Sony had R&D personnel to spare on a niche project like that in the past year.

Mi8us 1, troll) (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439593)

Ps3-Downloadable playstation and ps2 games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16439697)

just as sony got sued by the immersion corporation for coppying their idea of a rumble controller , there is also a decent chance that Nintendo will bring up a suit against Sony for copyright infringement. What i'm thinking is that Nintendo will accuse Sony of copying their idea for the Wii's virtual console.
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